Democracy Now! 2026-08-12 Wednesday

Summary

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Democracy Now! — August 12, 2026

“Britain, Gaza, and Genocide: Tribunal Chairs Corbyn, Gordon, and Hamoudi on UK Complicity and Crackdown Against Activists”

Location: London
Host: Amy Goodman
Featured Guests:

• Jeremy Corbyn — British MP, former Labour Party leader (2015–2020)
• Nev Gordon — Israeli political scientist, International Law & Human Rights Professor (Queen Mary University of London)
• Shahed Hamoudi — Palestinian Jordanian lecturer in International Law, University of Kent
• Plus, testimonies from Mark Smith (former British Foreign Office official), Fran Heathcote (trade unionist), and Dr. Victoria Rose (surgeon)

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Episode Overview

This broadcast of Democracy Now! focuses on Britain’s evolving response to the Israel-Gaza conflict, centering on an extensive interview with the three co-chairs of the London-based Gaza Tribunal: Jeremy Corbyn, Nev Gordon, and Shahed Hamoudi. The Tribunal’s findings—documented in their new book, The Gaza: Britain’s Complicity in Genocide—implicate the UK in supporting Israel’s actions in Gaza. The episode investigates both high-level government policy and the domestic crackdown on pro-Palestinian activism, capturing lived experience through harrowing witness testimony.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Prime Minister Andy Burnham’s Apology on Gaza

• Context: Recently installed UK Prime Minister Andy Burnham issued a public apology for Labour’s earlier stance on Gaza.
• Burnham’s Remarks [18:28]:

  “At the start of Israel’s military action in Gaza, my party didn’t get it right and I am sorry about that... The response has too often not been good enough. We need to do better... We have taken some important steps, including recognizing the Palestinian state... restrictions on arms licenses... [but] the UK was too slow to call for a ceasefire…”
  -- Andy Burnham ([18:28])

• Corbyn’s Response [22:12]:

  “Well, it isn’t really an apology. What it says is we got it wrong, which isn’t quite the same thing… it’s not enough also to say we will sanction settlement goods whilst at the same time not sanctioning those companies that work in and out of settlements... it is simply not enough.”
  -- Jeremy Corbyn ([22:12])

2. The Gaza Tribunal’s Findings and the New Book

• Tribunal found Britain complicit in genocide due to “authorizing military, economic, and political support for Israel” ([20:03]).
• Over 3,000 people arrested since 2025 for support of Palestine Action, with the group labeled a terrorist organization ([20:03]).

3. Criminalization of Protest and the New "Terrorism"

• Arrest and prosecution of non-violent activists:

  “We’re talking about serious criminals being released early in order to make space for peaceful protesters... an absurd situation.”
  -- Jeremy Corbyn ([25:08])

• Legal changes: Support for Palestine Action now punishable by up to 14 years in prison; even holding a placard can be prosecuted under Terrorism Act 2000 ([22:12], [28:11]).
• Nev Gordon on Court Suppression:

  “These people... were not allowed to explain their motivations... instead of being tried for a criminal offense of destruction of property, they were tried as terrorists...”
  -- Nev Gordon ([29:14])

4. Suppression Inside Government

• Civil Service employees and whistleblowing:

  “Civil servants... faced with a choice. You either leave your job or you stay silent.”
  -- Shahed Hamoudi ([40:06])

• Mark Smith’s Testimony (former UK Foreign Office):

  “I was... asked to change the report... to omit key information so that it... ‘sounded less bad’... conversations were held in person to avoid court disclosure.”
  -- Mark Smith ([41:29])

5. Witness Testimony: Medical Catastrophe in Gaza

• Dr. Victoria Rose, Surgeon (testimony):

  “We operated on six children... an 18-month-old with a 15% burn, a 3-year-old with a 35% burn... a five-year-old girl whose arm was blown off... her sister, mother, a seven-year-old girl with her knee blown off, a 13-year-old boy with his left ankle blown off...”
  -- Dr. Victoria Rose ([48:00])

• Gordon on Medical Attacks:

  “All 36 hospitals in Gaza were bombed... Israel decimated the medical field... 1,700 health workers killed. ...the English government... looks for justification for each hospital bombing instead of the deliberate pattern.”
  -- Nev Gordon ([50:25])

6. Comparisons to Civil Disobedience, Nuremberg Precedents

• Hamoudi:

  “When we teach students about the Nuremberg Trials… What we have with Mark Smith is someone who is clear that signing this paper is... to be complicit in the most atrocious crimes...”
  -- Shahed Hamoudi ([43:57])

7. Growing Public Dissent and Impact of Protest

• Corbyn on Protest:

  “Change is happening before my very eyes... The public reaction [to Parliament blocking a ceasefire vote] was so huge... protest works... it does change things.”
  -- Jeremy Corbyn ([53:51])

8. Final Reflections and Critique of the UK’s Role in West Asia

• Hamoudi:

  “If the UK regrets its position in relation to Palestine, then the UK needs to stop supporting the US in its attacks... US UK should have never been in West Asia. It’s an area for its people, not for the plunder and exploitation of foreigners.”
  -- Shahed Hamoudi ([56:51])

• On Burnham’s willingness to engage:

  “I highly doubt it, to be honest. However, we shall try... to bring forward the paradoxes of what has happened to the English legal system... hoping that... we can bring forward change.”
  -- Shahed Hamoudi ([57:23])

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

On the government’s apologies and real change:

“It isn’t really an apology... it’s not enough. If we are going to be serious about supporting the Palestinian people ... we would stop allowing Israel to use the Royal Air Force base... stop the sharing of security information...”
-- Jeremy Corbyn ([22:12])

On the criminalization of protest:

“It is basically labeling anyone that holds a placard up saying I support Palestine action, calling them a terrorist. This includes people in their 80s and even 90s...”
-- Jeremy Corbyn ([22:12])

On Nuremberg and complicity:

“We teach children about history’s worst war crimes... our future history books will report with shame those that had the opportunity to stop this carnage but failed to act to achieve it.”
-- Jeremy Corbyn ([00:57])

On media’s role and public understanding:

“Representations of Palestinians as less human were not only normalized, but also deep fear of the other was ingrained over and over... Not only were the British people not allowed to know what was happening with their money, but also not allowed to even protest it.”
-- Shahed Hamoudi ([37:53])

On the destruction of Gaza’s healthcare system:

“The listener needs to understand that when you’re attacking a hospital that serves a large population... the reverberating harm ... is equal to weapons of mass destruction.”
-- Nev Gordon ([50:25])

On solidarity and meaningful action:

"If it’s all we can do, it’s an act of solidarity. It does change things."
-- Jeremy Corbyn ([53:51])

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Timestamps: Key Segments

• Burnham apology & policy shift: [18:28]
• Corbyn critiques apology & outlines necessary steps: [22:12]
• Criminalization of protest & legal framework: [28:11] – [34:46]
• Palestine Action legal issues & suppression in court: [32:27] – [34:46]
• Whistleblower Mark Smith testimony: [41:29]
• Dr. Victoria Rose medical testimony: [48:00]
• Discussion of systematic destruction of Gaza’s healthcare system: [50:25] – [53:14]
• Shift in public opinion and protest’s impact: [53:51]
• Final reflections on UK imperialism & prospects for change: [56:51] – [58:00]

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Structure and Tone

The tone is urgent, critical, and direct. Corbyn, Hamoudi, and Gordon consistently stress moral and legal responsibility, expose attempts at institutional cover-up, and contextualize the UK’s actions within legacies of colonialism and modern international law. The show amplifies frontline, expert, and whistleblower voices, maintains an investigative focus, and foregrounds the theme of public awakening versus establishment defensiveness.

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For listeners seeking a thorough understanding of the UK’s recent policy shifts, the crackdown on protest, and the activist, legal, and medical perspectives on Gaza—this episode provides a deeply detailed, first-person look at the layers of complicity and dissent shaping Britain’s ongoing historic moment.

Transcript

[Amy Goodman]

From London. This is Democracy Now.

[Andy Burnham]

I know many people feel that at the start of Israel's military action in Gaza, my party didn't get it right and I am sorry about that. The response has too often not been good enough. We need to do better.

[Amy Goodman]

As Britain's new Prime Minister, Andy Burnham apologizes for the Labour Party's stance on Gaza, we'll speak to Britain's former Labour Party leader, British MP Jeremy Corbyn. He recently chaired a tribunal on Gaza that concluded Britain was complicit in genocide.

[Jeremy Corbyn]

Today we teach children about history's worst war crimes against humanity. They're asked reform about how those crimes ever came about. Our future history books will report with shame those that had the opportunity to stop this carnage but failed to act to achieve it.

[Amy Goodman]

We'll speak with British MP Jeremy Corbyn and the other co chairs of the Gaza tribunal, the Israeli political scientist Nev Gordon and the Palestinian Jordanian international law expert Shahad Hamoudi. We will talk about the tribunal, their new book and Britain's escalating crackdown on pro Palestinian activists. All that and more coming up. Welcome to democracy now, democracynow.org, the war and Peace Report. I'm Amy Goodman. We're broadcasting from the UK from London. In Colombia, the death toll from Monday's massive earthquake has topped 250 and is expected to rise as search and rescue crews race to find survivors trapped under Rubble. More than 2700 people have been reported missing. Hundreds more are injured. This is a volunteer helping to search for victims in the city of Pereira, which was left devastated by the earthquake.

[Jeremy Corbyn]

Three people have been rescued here and

[Shahed Hamoudi]

two more over there.

[Jeremy Corbyn]

Thank God they're unharmed, not too badly injured. Everything's going well, thanks to all of us.

[Amy Goodman]

Geologists report that Monday's earthquake was the strongest to hit Colombia since 1970. The United States Navy said Tuesday it fired on a Panama flag cargo ship attempting to break the US Blockade of Iranian ports in the Gulf of Oman. The missile strike reportedly targeted the ship's engine room, leaving it disabled. The Pentagon did not say whether it killed or injured any sailors. The attack came as President Trump told reporters US Forces are in total control of the Strait of Hormuz. Trump's claim came as mediators in Qatar announced that negotiations between Iran and Oman over the Strait of Hormuz have reached an advanced stage. This is a spokesperson of for Qatar's Foreign Ministry. We have heard positive statements from both capitals in the recent couple of days and we are eagerly awaiting our main priority. Here is the reopening of the strait, maintaining the ceasefire and making sure that we are able to push forward towards the negotiation. The emerging deal would see vessels enter the strait along a northern route via Iranian waters. Ships exiting the strait would follow a southern route through amani waters. Meanwhile, six people were killed and 10 others wounded when Iran allied Houthi fighters attacked a ship in the Bab El Mandeb Strait. The Houthis say the ship was carrying Saudi military equipment. Last month, the Houthis declared a naval blockade of Saudi ports. An alleged Iranian threat to assassinate President Trump led to a secret US Operation last month that possibly endangered the lives of journalists and White House staffers. That's according to the Washington Post, which reports Trump secretly swapped planes just before departing the NATO summit in Turkey. Hiding in an airport catering truck normally used to load food and supplies onto planes, Trump was then loaded onto a smaller military aircraft that departed Turkey separately, even as the White House told the public he was flying on Air Force One. Alongside the reporters, White House staff and crew members, the White House was responding to what it considered a credible Iranian threat to shoot down Air Force One that followed the joint U. S. Israeli assassination of Iran's supreme leader, members of his family and other top officials in February. Stephen Cash, executive director of the Steady State and a former CIA intelligence officer, said, quote, it appears that the idea was we can reduce the danger to President Trump by offering up 100 or so people to be killed by the Iranians in his place. Unquote. At least four civilians are dead in Russia and Ukraine after a series of deadly drone attacks overnight. Among the dead are two people killed by a Russian drone attack on Ukraine's Kherson region and a man and child killed after Ukrainian drones struck the Russian city of Novorossiysk. This follows Russian attacks on Ukraine that killed at least 12 people the previous night, leaving dozens more wounded. Ukraine accused Russia of using North Korean missiles in those attacks and said a children's hospital was among buildings struck. According to the United Nations, Russia is holding over 16,000 Ukrainian civilians in detention. Many are kept in isolation and are not being treated according to standards of international law. This is a Ukrainian former prisoner of war who testified to the United Nations Tuesday about torture and sexual abuse by Russian forces.

[Jeremy Corbyn]

I was lucky enough to survive. Not many of my friends were lucky enough. Two of my friends were beaten up to death in detention centers in Donetsk region. Two of my friends died because of the conditions they were put in in Russian prisons and were returned in plastic bags to their homelands.

[Amy Goodman]

Meanwhile, a Moscow court has decided Russia's main anti war and liberal political party cannot run in next month's parliamentary elections. On Monday, hundreds of young supporters gathered outside the Moscow courthouse during the hearing, showing their support for the anti war party by singing songs and waving flags. In Minnesota, lieutenant governor Peggy Flanagan has won the Democratic Party's Senate primary, securing about 60% of the vote in a matchup against her better funded opponent, Congresswoman Angie Craig. Flanagan had the backing of progressives including Senators Bernie Sanders and Elizabeth Warren, who supported her calls for Medicare for all, a higher federal minimum wage, universal child care and more. She spoke to supporters after polls closed Tuesday evening and we are going to

[Shahed Hamoudi]

stop Donald Trump's billion dollar a day illegal war in Iran and the crushing gas and fertilizer prices. We are going to fight the corruption, whether it's in the White House or in the halls of Congress because the

[Amy Goodman]

grift has to to stop. Flanagan is a member of the White Earth band of Ojibwe. She could become the first Native American woman to serve in the Senate. Her primary opponent, Angie Craig, was endorsed by Democratic Party leaders, including House Minority leader Hakeem Jeffries. Craig's campaign outspent Flanagan by a more than four to one margin and benefited from nearly $10 million in dark money spent on her behalf. Craig's loss marks another defeat for AIPAC, the American Israel Public Affairs Committee, which encouraged its members to support her campaign. Meanwhile, progressive Democrat Matt Little has won the race to fill the congressional seat Craig left to pursue her failed Senate candidacy. Little campaign on a pledge to support Medicare for all while seeking to ban corporate money from politics. He defeated two challengers whom he accused of receiving support from aipac. In Wisconsin, Milwaukee County Executive David Crowley appears to have narrowly defeated Democratic Socialist Francesca Hong for the Democratic Party's gubernatorial nomination with 98% of the expected vote tallied. Hong is trailing by about 3,000 votes and its unexpectedly poor showing for Hong after most polls showed her leading the race by double or digits. In South Carolina, Darlene Graham will advance to a runoff in the race to win the Republican Party's nomination to replace her brother, Senator Lindsey Graham, who died in July. Darlene Graham spoke to supporters after polls closed. I want to thank President Trump his steadfast support and his complete and total endorsement means so much to me. A federal judge in Boston blocked the US Postal Service from enforcing part of Trump's executive order to tighten mail and voting rules before November's congressional elections. The order requires states to submit lists of eligible voters who may receive mail ballots if the states refused to do so, USPS would not deliver the ballots. Sophia Lynlacin, a voting rights lawyer with the aclu, said in a statement, quote, today's ruling sends another necessary message to an administration that continues to weaponize portions of the government to sow chaos into our elections, she said. ICE is planning to spend up to $20 million to purchase thousands of gloves that can release painful electric shocks. This week, the Department of Homeland Security announced ICE agents and officers could begin carrying the gloves by March. The devices are manufactured by Compliant Technologies llc, based in Lexington, Kentucky, and have been used in recent years by municipal police departments and jails. This comes after the ACLU revealed federal immigration agents deployed to Los Angeles last summer used racist slurs against Latinos they targeted and racially profiled in operations. The discoveries came as part of a federal case that's compiled months of body camera footage, depositions and text messages. The Trump administration's awarded a $158 million contract to a group founded by a former ICE agent to legally represent unaccompanied immigrant children in the U.S. the Minneapolis based Our Rescue was founded in 2013 by Tim Ballard, who quit his job in federal immigration enforcement to combat the sex trafficking of children, inspiring the 2023 movie Sound of Freedom. The film drew widespread acclaim from conservatives, but others criticized it for featuring conspiracy theories perpetuated by the far right group QAnon. Ballard abruptly left our rescue in July 2023. In the months after his departure, he was accused of sex trafficking, forced labor and abusing women himself. The contract between Our Rescue and the Office of Refugee Resettlement could reportedly increase up to $244 million. This comes after the federal government also awarded a $150 million contract to a small Texas law firm with ties to the Trump administration to represent unaccompanied immigrant children in court. Burke Law Group is based in Houston and primarily focuses on administrative law. In the Democratic Republic of Congo, the number of confirmed Ebola cases has surpassed 4,000. It's now largest Ebola outbreak ever recorded. The World Health Organization's recommended testing an existing Ebola vaccine to see if it could protect against the strain now spreading in the DRC. This is the WHO's Director General Tedros Adnan Ghebreyesis.

[Jeremy Corbyn]

It's moving really, really fast and I can't hide from you my feelings.

[Amy Goodman]

Maybe expressing my feelings properly would be better.

[Jeremy Corbyn]

I'm deeply, deeply concerned by how the situation is on the ground.

[Amy Goodman]

Executions are scheduled in Alabama, Oklahoma and Tennessee Thursday. And what would be the first time since 2010 three people are put to death on the same day in the United States. In Tennessee, Republican Governor Bill Lees refused to grant clemency to Darrell Hines, who's scheduled to be executed Thursday despite his attorney's warnings he could suffer cruel unusual punishment. Hines attorney said the physician likely to oversee the execution is unqualified to insert the IV to administer lethal drugs. Citing the may botched execution attempt of Tony Carruthers. Governor Lee called off Carruthers execution and granted him a one year reprieve after the physician struggled for about an hour to insert the IV to administer the lethal drugs. Witnesses describe the scene as a bloody mess. According to the Tennessee Lookout, Hines has suffered two strokes that left him partially paralyzed. And millions of people in Greenland, Iceland and northern Spain will witness a total solar eclipse today, the first of its kind since 1999. A partial eclipse will be visible across a vast swath of Western Europe, northwestern Africa and some eastern south states and provinces in North America. Here in London and the UK people are scrambling to get the special glasses to witness the eclipse. And those are some of the headlines. This is democracy now, democracynow.org, the war and Peace Report. I'm Amy Goodman here in London in the UK Coming up, the Gaza Tribunal, Britain's complicity in genocide. We'll speak to British MP Jeremy Corbyn, Nev Gordon and Shahed Moody. Stay with us.

[Billy Bragg]

I ain't got no home I'm just a roaming round Just a wandering worker I go from town to town and the police make it hard for me no matter where I go and I ain't got no home in this world anymore. No, I ain't got no in this world anymore My brothers and my sisters are stranded on this road Long and dusty road that a million feet of trough now the rich man took my home and drove me from my door and I ain't got no home in this world anymore. No, I ain't got no home in this world anymore. I was farming on the ship and always I was poor My crops I laid into the banker's store My wife took down and died all on the

[Amy Goodman]

cabin floor no home in this world anymore. A rendition of the British musician Billy Bragg in our Democracy now studio. This is Democracy now, democracynow.org, i'm Amy Goodman. We're broadcasting from London, where tonight the documentary about Democracy Now, Steal the Story, please. Will be at the Curzon Theatre, Bloomsbury, in the Bertha Dock House. We'll talk more about that later. But right now, the key issue of the day, Britain's new Prime Minister, Andy Burnham, recently apologized for the Labour Party's initial stance on Gaza. On July 20, Burnham became prime Minister, succeeding Keir Starmer, who announced his resignation in June. Burnham is Britain's seventh Prime Minister in a decade. He's the former mayor of Manchester. Shortly before becoming Prime Minister, Burnham posted this video online.

[Andy Burnham]

I know many people feel that at the start of Israel's military action in Gaza, my party didn't get it right and I am sorry about that. The response has too often not been good enough. We need to do better. Yes, we have taken some important steps. These include recognizing the Palestinian state, placing sanctions on Israeli ministers and imposing waves of sanctions on violent settlement settlers and the organisations that support them. I also fully support the restrictions on arms licenses to make sure that no British bombs or bullets can be used by the IDF in Gaza or in the West Bank. But let's be honest, the UK was too slow to call for a ceasefire and we must now do more to strengthen our approach. Israel continues to violate the ceasefire agreement, killing innocent Palestinians. We're seeing a surge in settlement, settler violence in the west bank and East Jerusalem and the continued expansion of illegal settlements, displacing Palestinian communities. And Netanyahu's government is clearly attempting to make a two state solution impossible. That's why we need to do more, which includes looking at further sanctions both on those involved in the violence in Gaza, but also looking at measures to ban trade in goods with illegal settlements. I, like many people, feel passionately about Gaza and I will do everything I can to work with international partners to stop the suffering, to ensure the Israeli government adheres to international law and to keep the prospect of a two state solution alive. Because this is the only way to lasting peace for both Israelis and Palestinians.

[Amy Goodman]

That was Britain's new Prime Minister, Andy Burnham. Last year an independent Gaza tribunal was held here in London. It Featured testimony from 29 witnesses, including journalists, aid workers, doctors and international law experts. The tribunal concluded the British government was complicit in Israel's genocide in Gaza by authorizing military, economic and political support for Israel. The tribunal was held amidst an escalating crackdown in Britain targeting pro Palestinian activists. Since July of last year, British police have arrested over 3,000 people for expressing support for the group Palestine Action. Last year, the British government declared the group to be a terrorist organization, making support for the group punishable by up to 14 years in prison. We're joined right now by the Gaza Tribunal's three co chairs. Jeremy Corbyn is a member of the British Parliament who served as Labour party leader from 2015 to 2020. He has served in the British Parliament since 1983. Nev Gordon is an Israeli political scientist and professor of International law and Human Rights at Queen Mary University of London, the first Director of Physicians for Human Rights Israel. And Shahed Hammoudi is a Palestinian Jordanian lecturer in International Law and Legal Theory at the University of Kent. The three have just published a new book. It's titled the Gaza Britain's Complicity in Genocide. We'll spend the hour with them. MP Corbyn, it's an honor to have you back on Democracy Now. Can you respond? Respond to the new Prime Minister, Andy Burnham, a man you know well over the years and his apology, what exactly does it mean?

[Jeremy Corbyn]

Well, it isn't really an apology. What it says is we got it wrong, which isn't quite the same thing, and says we've got to do better in the future, then goes on to reiterate what we were told in Parliament, that no weapons of being sold to Israel could be used conceivably to kill people in Gaza. Well, if that is the case, then we should cease all arms trade with Israel and we should certainly cease being a very important supplier of parts for the F35 jets which are still being used to bomb and kill people in Gaza. And so it's not enough, it's not enough also to say we will sanction settlement goods whilst at the same time not sanctioning those companies that work in and out of settlements and in Israel which are supplying parts for other weapons. Likewise the manufacture of weapons by Israel by elbit systems at factories in Britain. So he hasn't gone, as far as I'm concerned, anything like far enough in this. And the point you made in addition is that if he is serious about a complete change of policy, if he's serious, it's a big if, then why are we criminalizing people who take part in protest in Britain? A number have already been convicted and face long stretches in prison. These are nonviolent direct action protests. And there are also probably 2,500 to 3,000 people who've been arrested for holding a placard in contravention of the Terrorism Act 2000, which is basically labeling anyone that holds a placard up saying I support Palestine action, calling them a terrorist. This includes people in their 80s and even 90s retired Anglican clergy people and many others. It's an absurd situation. If we are going to be serious about supporting the Palestinian people and the genocide they're still going through, we would Also stop allowing Israel to use the Royal Air Force base in a criteria. We'd stop the sharing of security information with Israel. We would isolate Israel military actions, all of which are directed against the Palestinian people. It's simply not enough.

[Amy Goodman]

You know, just coming into London overnight, I was looking at the news and it's completely inundated with the controversial proposal. The plan now to release many people from prison to be able to fill it with other people. And you're talking about 3,000 people, not clear they would all go to prison. But that's who we're talking about clearing the prisons for.

[Jeremy Corbyn]

We're talking about serious criminals being released early in order to make space for peaceful protesters who have simply said it's not on their conscience any longer, that they can do nothing about the killing of Palestinian people. It is an absurd situation. I do think, by the way, there needs to be a reform of our prison system and prisons should be a place of rehabilitation and education rather than solely of punishment. But then that's. Maybe it's a wider issue, but we're concentrating on this work that we did, which was, and it was wonderful working with Shahad and Neve to do this. And, and I want to talk about the tribunal.

[Amy Goodman]

But one more thing. With your position as mp, you've presented a private Members bill to Parliament. You did that about a year ago now for the world. They don't understand private members bill. But is this still relevant? And what did you propose?

[Jeremy Corbyn]

It's extremely relevant and it's still very relevant because the government had consistently refused to have an open inquiry into the way decisions were made, what information was shared in the bombardment of Gaza and the use of RAF bases. I then proposed a Private members bill, which means it's a backbench bill by an individual mp. I myself, it got through its first stage and so we had the bill printed and published and the details of the bill very carefully thought out and presented. It was then blocked for the main debate, which is when it would become a lot issue within Parliament. We expected that. So we then set up the independent tribunal which we're now talking about. We're now into a new session of Parliament because Parliament, each Parliamentary session lasts around a year. The new session is underway. I've secured a slot for 11 September to present the bill again. And hopefully, I can't predict for certainty what will happen. We get a debate on it. Basically, what we're saying is, after the Iraq war, the complicity of Britain and the war crimes in Iraq became very obvious through Sir John Chilcott's inquiry. We want another inquiry, but this time with more teeth to deal with the connivance of people in misleading information selling weapons which have been used to kill people. If the Foreign Office Office are really expecting us to believe that none of these weapons that we're selling to Israel at the moment can be used to kill anybody in Gaza, then we need to know exactly what weapons are being sold. We don't.

[Amy Goodman]

Professor Neve Gordon, you have are getting a number of signatures. You can tell us how many. An open letter. What to the Prime Minister. Can you explain what you are calling for

[Nev Gordon]

work? So again, the Prime Minister said that Britain got it wrong and we are suggesting that if it got it wrong, then this shouldn't remain on the realm of discourse, but should manifest itself into action. So we're raising a few course the criminalization of the Palestine action activist. And we can talk a bit more about how they've been criminalized maybe later on. And, and we're, we're, we're calling to deprescribe the group which was prescribed as a terrorist group in July 2025, if

[Amy Goodman]

you could actually address that right now. Because I think it can be puzzling to many people around the world that these protesters are now called terrorists. And there are a handful who have been sentenced.

[Nev Gordon]

So there's two issues here. One is we have a group of people that decided that protesting and calling on the government to change its actions is no longer viable in terms of bringing about change. And therefore they have decided to take direct action and to try to stop the transfer of these weapons that have been used to kill Palestinians in Gaza to the Israeli military to be used for the destruction of the Gaza Strip. They have been criminalized by the British government in such a way that they have been prescribed not as a radical movement, not, but as an actual terrorist group. And if they are a terrorist group group, that then the sentences they will receive for carrying out what could be really minor property offenses, like writing graffiti on an airplane as a terrorist act. And anyone that supports them, and that's the 3,000 and somewhat retired people that you mentioned, can also be sentenced to jail. Now, what happenedthe second issue is that what happened in the trials is that these people were not allowed to explain their motivations. Now, let me give you an example. Let's say someone wants to attack right here in the studio, Jeremy Corbyn. And Shia jumps up and pushes that person away and that person sprains their ankle and sues Shaid. She is not allowed to explain in court that basically she was trying to defend Corbyn from the attack. So these people that were sentenced are not allowed to explain their motivation to prevent a much greater harm than the harm that they can carried out, which was the destruction of property. That is not allowed in court. And then the British, the legislator also distinguished between the verdict and the sentencing. So the jury could not hear their motivations, had to decide whether they destroyed some property, decided that they did indeed destroy, destroy some property, but then instead of being tried for a criminal offense of the destruction of property, they were tried as terrorists. So there's a separation between verdict and sentencing and the judge can decide on that separation and can decide to judge them as terrorists for a crime that actually the whole court case was about the destruction of property.

[Amy Goodman]

So I want to turn to the case of the British lawyer facing contempt charges over his closing speech during a trial of Palestine action activists. Rajiv Menon, KSI is accused of misleading the jury and ignoring directions by the judge when representing Charlotte Head, one of the four activists jailed for criminal damage after they broke broken into an Elbit Systems weapons factory in Filton in August of 2024. At a recent online webinar titled Descent into the Rajiv Menon KC case, legal experts spoke about the contempt of court charges being brought against Menon. At the end of the event, Menin himself spoke briefly to thank supporters and spoke about the case of the Filton 24 the activists arrested and charged for their direct action break in at the Opit Systems weapons factory. This is what he said.

[Rajiv Menon]

It would be remiss of me not to acknowledge the Filton 24, the incredible young people who risked everything, excuse me, to speak truth to power and to do what they thought was right when they engaged in direct action against the Elbert Systems factory in Filton. It was an enormous privilege for me to represent Charlotte Head together with Simon and Kate. We fight on for her against the draconian sentence that she received from the very judge who instigated the proceedings against me. And that battle will continue as long as it needs to continue.

[Amy Goodman]

So that's Rajiv Menon who has been held now in contempt of court. The attorney for the Palestine action activists, Israeli Professor Nev Gordon, you cite him directly in this letter, open letter that scores of people have signed on to scholars and practitioners who of international law talk about, including him. And what exactly you are demanding of Prime Minister Burnham in this open letter?

[Nev Gordon]

Well, basically the judge is not allowing the defense lawyers to defend their clients. It's not allowing to explain the context in which Their actions took place and, and is not allowing the lawyer to do his job in this case. And when the lawyer tried to do his job, which is his calling, I need to the best of my effort to defend these people. He was held in contempt of court and if it goes through, he might even be debarred. And this is one of the UK's major barristers and who is well respected and it is unheard of, this kind of attack, both on the activists that were not allowed to speak during the trials and explain their motivations and about the defense team that were not allowed to carry their jobs. And I don'tand so there's a whole. What we see here, here is again this I think is also part of the complicity of the British government because as it allow, as it enhances diplomatic support, inviting the President of Israel to come to meetings here, the one that signed the rockets on the Gaza border that were later being launched against civilians in Gaza, as it's doing that, it is introducing new legislation that includes what we've just discussed, but also includes outlawing speech like from the river to the Sea, Intifada, anti Zionism and things like that to silence any kind of mobilization and collective action against probably the worst crime in the 21st century. And so we're seeing this double movement of those that have been supporting the genocide basically being spread a red carpet while those that take a stance and come out against that are being criminalized.

[Amy Goodman]

I want to bring in the third author of the new book the Gaza Britain's Complicity in Shahed Hamoudi, Palestinian Jordanian Lecturer in International Law and Legal Theory at the University of Kent, served as co chair of the Gaza Tribunal along with the Israeli professor Nev Gordon and the British MP Jeremy Corbyn. Thanks so much for being with us. Shahad, if you could start off by talking about the awareness within the British populace, the public, how their taxpayer dollars are spent, what is the awareness of Britain's relationship with Israel?

[Shahed Hamoudi]

So to begin with, let's be very clear, had it not been for the UK's material support to Israel, we could have saved tens of thousands of lives. And he was very clear, clear for the people who went to the street that if something were to happen by the UK's government, we are able to save those lives. So an apology coming far too late into the future is almost offensive rather than anything that would relinquish people or allow us to breathe. So as to the British people's understanding of what was happening, it is indeed very disturbing to see the Distortion that happened through mainstream, mainstream media, such as the BBC, for example, where representations of Palestinians as less human were not only normalized, but also deep fear of the other was ingrained over and over and over again. Listening to the news, it was as if one is listening to the world saying that their life, and specifically their right to say no to a settler colony that has deprived us of our life for five generations now is criminalized over and over again. And the sad thing is that not only were the British people not allowed to know what was happening within their money, with their money, but also they were not allowed to even protest it. And whoever protests it is also demonized within the media space. And so this isthis was clearly where the edge of the so called democratic system has reached this. We've reached the edge of the establishment rule or the establishment space where it allows us to express our opinions in the sense that the moment that we touch its own interests in West Asia and Israel being the main factor of that interest in facilitating that, that is where everything stops. That is where an autoimmune reaction happens within the system, so natural within the system that it automatically reacted by blocking out any imagination, any understanding or humanization to stop this bloodshed.

[Amy Goodman]

Shahid Hamoudi, you've talked about what's happened in the streets, but also the suites and the government offices, that there was a kind of policy to silence and even punish civil servants who dared to speak out.

[Shahed Hamoudi]

So as we saw in the testimonies that were presented in front of U.S. civil servants, and it must be said, very close to or invoking questions that were discussed in the Nuremberg Trials, were faced with an option of you're either damned if you speak or damned if you don't, in the sense that if they were to follow their own consciousness and say no against decisions that would give economic support to Israel, and let's be clear, under international law, any support to Israeli war economy, not just to the settlement economy, was a form of supporting the genocide and falls out of outside of the UK's obligations when they try to notify that and when other civil servants try to note that sending weapons or anything of the like is indeed in violation of Britain's own law as well as international law. They are faced with a choice. You either leave your job or you stay silent.

[Amy Goodman]

I wanted to go to Mark Smith. He testified at the Gaza Tribunal. He was a British Foreign Office official who resigned in protest over continued arms sales to Israel. This was back in August 2024. Smith was the lead official on the UK Arms Export Licensing Report which assessed whether the UK was legally compliant. He chose to only testify by voice. I want to get your response to this, Shahed. This is some of his testimony.

[Mark Smith]

What I witnessed while working on that report was profoundly concerning. While I was working on the report, I was routinely changed, asked to change the report. This was not to correct mistakes or to ensure accuracy, as would normally be the case with a Civil Service report, but I was actually asked to alter the wording, placement of paragraphs and to omit key information so that it, quote, unquote, sounded less bad. So this is absolutely counter to what we are trained to do as civil servants. And it's something that I have never witnessed in my career, either prior to or following working on this particular report. It was also fully understood in the department that we would have these conversations in person and not want those conversations to be requested by a court. So for anybody listening here, there have been hundreds, if not thousands of conversations within the walls of the Foreign Office on the most controversial aspects of our arms sales policy, which will never be seen by the public, which will never be put into a court, even a closed court, because we have them in person.

[Amy Goodman]

So that was Mark Smith testifying at the Gaza Tribunal last year in London, chaired by our three guests today. He was a British Foreign Office official who resigned in protest. And this is Fran Heathcote, a British trade unionist and General Secretary of the Public and Commercial Services Union.

[Fran Heathcote]

We further believe that across some areas of the Civil Service and its related areas, the Civil Service Code is being used to prevent our members engaging in activity to help the people of Gaza.

[Amy Goodman]

Fran Heathcote, British trade unionist Mark Smith, Shahed Hammoudi talk about the significance of this testimony and also where this tribunal led.

[Shahed Hamoudi]

So, indeed so, as I said, when we teach students about the Nuremberg Trials, we ask them, how were civil servants that were put in such positions? What is their moral responsibility? What we have with Mark Smith is someone who is clear that signing this paper is to have not only blood on his hand, but to be complicit in the most atrocious crimes of which we cannot speak. And the fact that we see this reaction at all levels of the UK's government tells us how deeply ingrained is the establishment in establishing the borders of how far can British rule of law, as well as British democracy go? And within spaces where we're not allowed to speak, to speak, when you see these things, these people were deprived of their human rights to say no to being complicit in a genocide. And indeed, this is one of the most difficult dangerous red lights that we could see in any government whereby it is absolutely normalized to hide away one of the biggest crimes in humanity, even if it's just through signing papers and saying yes to cooperation with the Israeli military.

[Amy Goodman]

We're going to break and then come back to this discussion. Shahad Hamouri is a Palestinian Jordanian Lecturer in International Law and Legal Theory at the University of Kent, Nev. Gordon is a professor here in London and Jeremy Corbyn is a British mp. They are co chairs of the Gaza Tribunal that has led to a new book the Gaza Britain's Complicity in Genocide. We'll be back with them in a minute. Here in London,

[Billy Bragg]

Sam. Sa.

[Shahed Hamoudi]

Hayala san.

[Amy Goodman]

Daraweesh by the Palestinian Oud musician Hud as for performing in our Democracy now studio, this is democracynow, democracynow.org, the war and Peace Report. I'm Amy Goodman. We're broadcasting from London today and tomorrow on Thursday as we go back to the Gaza Tribunal. One of the witnesses was plastic surgeon Dr. Victoria Rose. She first joined missions to Gaza through the charity ideals in 2019 where she contributed to the development and training of limb reconstruction specialists in Gaza. Since 2024 she's undertaken multiple humanitarian missions in Gaza. So in her testimony she spoke about operating on children each and every day and shared her operating history from one single day in May of 2025.

[Fran Heathcote]

I looked at one day's operating in May and we operated on six children. We started with an 18 month old child that's not the youngest child I treated with a 15% burn. We then went on to a 3 year old boy with a 35% burn in the UK that is a 5050 survival burn and it would go to probably one of only two units that would be able to look after that child. I then operated on a five year old girl who had had her arm blown off. She was down for an amputation but we managed to to salvage half of her hand and most of her forearm and shoulder. I then operated on her sister whilst my colleagues operated on her mother in the theater next door. Her sister had had her left cheek and shoulder blown off. I then operated on a seven year old girl who had had her knee blown off and my final case was a 13 year old boy who had had his left ankle blown off and his brother was being operated in the theatre next door.

[Amy Goodman]

Dr. Victoria Rose testifying at the Gaza Tribunal in London last year. Again we are joined by the co chairs of the Gaza Tribunal, Shahed Hammuri, who teaches at The University of Kent Nev Gordon here in London, a professor and British MP Jeremy Cor Corbyn who ended up co authoring a book together the Gaza Britain's Complicity and Genocide. Nev Gordon we just listened to what happened in a hospital. You are formerly the first director of Physicians for Human Rights Israel. I'm wondering if you can talk about Israel's systematic attacks on hospitals and healthcare workers in Gaza, not to mention journalists right now and, and also how Britain has dealt with the issue of international law. The UK questioning the ICC's jurisdiction to protect Israel.

[Nev Gordon]

So we heard from Victoria Rose about one day operating on children in the testimony at the itself we also heard about the conditions under which he was operating. And these are conditions where all the hospitals, all 36 hospitals in the Gaza Strip were bombed, a lot of them damaged, but many of them completely destroyed. And where there was no Israel did not allow access to medicine, did not allow access to fuel that you need for electricity to run these hospitals and basically systematically and deliberately decimated the medical field in the Gaza Strip. And I would say we need the listener needs to understand that when you're attacking a hospital that serves a large population, it's not only the harm that is generated through the immediate, immediate attack, but it is the reverberating harm. And that reverberating harm I would suggest is equal to weapons of mass destruction because the amount of people that are going to be killed from these attacks is today unknown, but it's in thousands.

[Amy Goodman]

And Dr. Abu Safiyah, the head of the Khmel Adwan hospital in Gaza, still imprisoned.

[Nev Gordon]

We have 1,700 health workers that were killed in the Gaza Strip and that is about three times more than the level of civilians. So you're three times more likely to be killed in the Gaza Strip if you're a health worker than if you are a civilian. And then we have scores of doctors and healthcare workers that were disappeared or taken into Israeli jails. And we know that in these jails they have been tortured and some of them have been raped. So there is a systematic assault on the life saving and life sustaining situation in the Gaza Strip. And the English government is instead of looking at the, this pattern of assault where we have over 900 attacks on medical units in Gaza, instead of looking at it and seeing there's a pattern here, it's systematic and deliberate is looking at each and every single attack and saying maybe there was a reason to attack it because maybe combatants were hiding in the hospitals. And what we see is only true Trees and we've lost sight of the forest and the forest is the destruction of the health system in Gaza.

[Amy Goodman]

British MP Jeremy Corbyn. In the United States, the majority of the those who voted in the Democratic Caucus, we have not seen this before. People like Congressmember Ro Khanna and others voted to end military support for Israel. Talk about the shift, if there is one, in the British Parliament. And also coming back to your new Prime Minister, Andy Burnham, where he was on this and the space you feel protests, what role protest plays in moving this forward.

[Jeremy Corbyn]

I want to say a big thank you to all those in the United States that have protested and marched for Gaza, marched for the Palestinian people, because I know the hardship they faced and I know the number of students that lost positions because of the encampments and so much else. So I want to say a big thank you to all our friends in the US for what they've done and continue to do on this. And it's clearly making a difference. Look at the election results in the Democrat primaries. Look at the change that's happening in Britain. It's been a more complicated process because the British government, government's relationship with Israel is incredibly close. It is security cooperation and there is a huge Israeli influence on the British political system, and it's very hard to hit back against that in support of the Palestinian people. But nevertheless, we've had enormous demonstrations in Britain. The biggest was almost a million who marched on the. On the US embassy. And I think my estimation is almost 2 million people in Britain have done something in support of the Palestinian cause. Parliament is way behind the curve in all this, but it's beginning to change. Way behind the curve. But change is happening before my very eyes. One night, there was a maneuver in Parliament to prevent a vote on a ceasefire. The reaction, the public reaction was so huge on that, a week later, you couldn't move for Labour MP using the word ceasefire in their speeches in Parliament. Things have changed now. Andy Burnham said what he said. I think it's inadequate, I think it's very late, I think it's very unclear. But nevertheless, he only said that for a reason. And that was the reason was the electoral pushback against the Labour Party because of its complicit in genocide and because of the findings of what this book is about. And so my message is protest works. It can be very frustrating going on a march. You think, what have I done? I've just been in a march. Whereas the Palestinian people are losing everything as a result. If it's all we can do it's an act of solidarity. It does change things. But the points that Neve was making, the points that Jihad was making. Palestinian kids are dying of starvation, of dehydration, of operations that can't succeed because of a lack of anesthetic and even antiseptic. And within a few kilometers everything is available. This is a human made murder of Palestinian children. It is an act of genocide. Protest, please do all you can. Our book is part of that protest and we sent copies to Andy Burke, Burnham and to Ed Miliband and invited them to meet us to discuss the findings of our tribunal and have the courage to set up a government sponsored public inquiry into Britain's complicity.

[Amy Goodman]

And Shahid Modi, from Palestine to Iran. Your final thoughts?

[Shahed Hamoudi]

Well, they're all a very. They're all the same part of what needs to happen. And in the sense, if the UK regrets its position in relation to Palestine, then the UK needs to stop supporting the US in its attacks against Israel. Further destabilization as well as taking it away against the sovereignty of nations within West Asia. The US UK should have never been in West Asia. It's an area for its people, not for the plunder and exploitation of foreigners.

[Amy Goodman]

And do you feel that Andy Burnham is listening?

[Shahed Hamoudi]

I highly doubt it, to be honest. However, we shall try with every single point that we have to bring forward the paradoxes of what has happened to the English legal system as well as the English democratic system in order to put a mirror in front of them so that they can no longer claim any moral superiority after their hands are full of blood and hoping that with that we can bring forward change little by little, as per the fact that the British people are more than ever, as per the American people, aware, aware of what is happening and aware of a very simple fact. And that is the people of the region should never be controlled by foreign entities and they have every right to live equally like everyone else.

[Amy Goodman]

I want to thank you all for being with us. Shahad Hamuri, Palestinian, Jordanian, Lecturer in International Law and Legal Theory at University of Kent, Nev. Gordon, Israeli political scientist, professor of International Law and Human Rights at Queen Mary University, University of London and British MP Jeremy Corbyn. They three co chaired the Gaza tribunal and co authored the new book Just out the Gaza Britain's Complicity in Genocide. That does it for our show. I hope you all have glasses to see the total eclipse tonight or 90% here in London.

[Jeremy Corbyn]

You can watch it through a colander

[Amy Goodman]

or through a column. That's a new one that I've been hearing. And tonight at that same time, I'll be at the Bertha Dock House at the Curzon Cinema in Bloomsbury for two screenings at 6, 20 and 9 of Steal the Story, please. Special thanks to Dennis Moynihan. I'm Amy Goodman. Thanks so much for joining us. I'm in London.