Podcast
Democracy Paradox
Hosted by Justin Kempf · EN
Is it possible for a democracy to govern undemocratically? Can the people elect an undemocratic leader? Is it possible for democracy to bring about authoritarianism? And if so, what does this say about democracy? My name is Justin Kempf. Every week I talk to the brightest minds on subjects like international relations, political theory, and history to explore democracy from every conceivable angle. Topics like civil resistance, authoritarian successor parties, and the autocratic middle class challenge our ideas about democracy. Join me as we unravel new topics every week.
31episodes
Episodes
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Rachel Beatty Riedl Says Economic Inequality Is Fueling Democratic Backsliding
2w ago00:47:25Tap to summarizeI'm by nature optimistic, but am extremely worried because of the structural moment we live in.Rachel Beatty RiedlPolitical scientist Rachel Beatty Riedl joins host Justin Kempf to examine how extreme economic inequality and the growing power of transnational elites have contributed to democratic backsliding. Drawing on experiences from Africa and other third-wave democracies, Riedl explains how concentrated wealth can weaken states, distort political competition, and prevent citizens’ preferences from being represented equally in government.Rachel Beatty Riedl is a Professor in the Brooks School of Public Policy and in the Department of Government at Cornell University and the Peggy J. Koenig ’78 Director of the Cornell Center on Democracy. She is the coeditor of Global Challenges to Democracy: Comparative Perspectives on Backsliding, Autocracy, and Resilience with Valerie Bunce, Tom Pepinsky, and Ken Roberts and the author of many articles including “Neoliberalism and the Third Wave" in the Journal of Democracy. The Democracy Paradox is made in partnership with the Kellogg Institute of the Keough School of Global Affairs at the University of Notre Dame. Read the full transcript here.Key HighlightsIntroduction - 0:20The Third Wave's Broken Bargain - 4:16Elites Without Borders - 14:50The Reagan Test - 24:35The Rocky Road Ahead - 34:26LinksLearn more about the Cornell Center on Democracy Read the book Global Challenges to Democracy: Comparative Perspectives on Backsliding, Autocracy, and ResilienceRead her article “Neoliberalism and the Third Wave" in the Journal of DemocracyLearn more about Rachel Beatty Riedl.Learn more about the Kellogg InstituteApes of the State created all MusicEmail comments or questions to jkempf@democracyparadox.comSupport the show
Transcribe →Kim Lane Scheppele on Hungary's Narrow Path Back to Democracy
4w ago00:52:24Tap to summarizeYou can only get to the point of restoring democratic institutions if you win the last election with such a huge majority that you really have the public with you as you make radical change.Kim Lane Scheppele Kim Lane Scheppele is the Laurance S. Rockefeller Professor of Sociology and International Affairs in the Princeton School of Public and International Affairs and the University Center for Human Values at Princeton University. Some of her articles include “Autocratic Legalism”, “The Rule of Law and the Frankenstate: Why Government Checklists Do Not Work”, “How Viktor Orbán Wins," and most recently “Can Péter Magyar Restore Hungary's Democracy?” The Democracy Paradox is made in partnership with the Kellogg Institute of the Keough School of Global Affairs at the University of Notre Dame. Read the full transcript here.Key HighlightsIntroduction - 0:20Magyar's Playbook - 3:24A Party Without a Party - 18:26Breaking the Rules to Save Democracy - 30:48Looking to the Future Instead of History - 44:29LinksLearn more about Kim Lane ScheppeleRead her Journal of Democracy article “Can Péter Magyar Restore Hungary's Democracy?”Learn more about the Kellogg Institute.Apes of the State created all MusicEmail comments or questions to jkempf@democracyparadox.comSupport the show
Transcribe →Jeffrey Kopstein Explains Why Polarization Turns Violent
Jul 800:45:53Tap to summarizeThe question is not whether polarization is dangerous, but the conditions under which it becomes violent.Jeffrey KopsteinJeffrey Kopstein joins the Democracy Paradox to discuss when polarization turns violent. Drawing on his Journal of Democracy essay “When Polarization Turns Violent” and his book with Stephen Hanson, The Assault on the State, Kopstein explains why affective polarization, struggles over belonging, and the weakening or politicization of state authority can create the conditions for organized political violence. The conversation ranges from Charlottesville to lynching in the American South, pogroms in Eastern Europe, communal violence in India, and the rise of patrimonial leaders who treat the state as personal property rather than an impersonal rule-of-law institution.The Democracy Paradox is made in partnership with the Kellogg Institute of the Keough School of Global Affairs at the University of Notre Dame. Read the full transcript here.Key HighlightsIntroduction - 0:20From Disagreement to Hate - 2:55Who Owns the Polity? - 13:51When the State Steps Aside - 26:32The Assault on the State - 36:10Links:Learn more about Jeffrey Kopstein.Read his Journal of Democracy article "When Polarization Turns Violent.”Learn more about his co-authored book The Assault on the State.Learn more about the Kellogg Institute.Apes of the State created all MusicEmail comments or questions to jkempf@democracyparadox.comSupport the show
Transcribe →Pepper Culpepper Says Good Populism Can Save Democracy
Jun 2400:49:05Tap to summarizeWe think the next ten years are going to be anti-billionaire.Pepper CulpepperPepper Culpepper joins the Democracy Paradox to discuss when populism can strengthen democracy. Drawing on his Journal of Democracy article “When Populism Can Be Good” and his book with Taeku Lee, Billionaire Backlash, Culpepper argues that corporate scandals can channel public anger toward billionaires and large corporations in ways that reinforce democratic accountability. The conversation explores good and bad populism, economic unfairness, AI, regulation, and whether democratic governments can still stand up to concentrated corporate power.The Democracy Paradox is made in partnership with the Kellogg Institute of the Keough School of Global Affairs at the University of Notre Dame. Read the full transcript here.Key HighlightsIntroduction - 0:20Good Populism - 3:05Latent Opinion - 12:33The Next Progressive Era - 20:42Regulation vs. Abundance - 35:48LinksLearn more about Pepper Culpepper.Learn more about his Journal of Democracy article “When Populism Can Be Good.”Learn more about his book Billionaire Backlash: The Age of Corporate Scandal and How It Could Save Democracy (Bloomsbury, 2026).Learn more about the Kellogg Institute.Apes of the State created all MusicEmail comments or questions to jkempf@democracyparadox.comSupport the show
Transcribe →Dan Slater Says Authoritarian Ideologies Still Matter
Jun 1000:47:09Tap to summarizeWe think of World War II as this global democratizing event, but what it really did was strengthen left-wing authoritarianism.Dan SlaterDan Slater is the James Orin Murfin Professor of Political Science and the Director of the Center of Emerging Democracies at the University of Michigan. He is the coauthor (with Joseph Wong) of the book From Development to Democracy: The Transformations of Modern Asia. More recently, he authored the article "The Authoritarian Origins of the Third Wave" in the Journal of Democracy. The Democracy Paradox is made in partnership with the Kellogg Institute of the Keough School of Global Affairs at the University of Notre Dame. Read the full transcript here.Key HighlightsIntroduction - 0:20Why Scholars Stopped Taking Ideology Seriously - 3:02The Difference Between Authoritarian Left and Right - 5:31Why the Third Wave Narrative Gets the History Wrong - 20:45Can Democracy Survive Ideological Extremes - 33:43LinksLearn more about Dan Slater.Read his article in the Journal of Democracy, "The Authoritarian Origins of the Third Wave."Learn more about the Center for Emerging Democracies.Learn more about the Kellogg Institute.Apes of the State created all MusicEmail comments or questions to jkempf@democracyparadox.comSupport the show
Transcribe →Guillermo Trejo on Accountability, Impunity, and the Fate of New Democracies
May 2700:57:57Tap to summarizeWhat happens when the violent state forged under autocracy survives into democracy?Guillermo TrejoIn this episode of The Democracy Paradox, Kellogg faculty fellow Guillermo Trejo discusses his new book, Accountability Shock, coauthored with Lucía Tiscornia and Juan Albarracín. Trejo explains how authoritarian security forces can survive democratic transitions and fuel organized crime, and why truth commissions, prosecutions, and institutional reforms are essential tools for preventing violence and building more durable democracies.The Democracy Paradox is made in partnership with the Kellogg Institute of the Keough School of Global Affairs at the University of Notre Dame. Read the full transcript here.Key HighlightsIntroduction - 0:20What Is the State? - 3:23From Order to Crime - 9:12The Accountability Shock - 19:10Beyond Elections - 37:20LinksLearn more about Guillermo Trejo.Learn more about his book Accountability Shock: Why Transitional Justice Prevents Criminal Wars in New Democracies (Cambridge University Press, 2026)Learn more about the Notre Dame Violence and Transitional Justice Lab.Learn more about the Kellogg Institute.Apes of the State created all MusicEmail comments or questions to jkempf@democracyparadox.comSupport the show
Transcribe →Kenneth Roberts Says the Left Pays a Steep Price for Breaking with Democracy
May 1300:46:36Tap to summarizeThe left pays a very steep price when they break with democratic norms and procedures.Kenneth RobertsKenneth Roberts is the Richard J. Schwartz Professor of Government at Cornell University. He is the coauthor (with Santiago Anria) of Polarization and Democracy in Latin America: Legacies of the Left Turn.The Democracy Paradox is made in partnership with the Kellogg Institute of the Keough School of Global Affairs at the University of Notre Dame. Read the full transcript here.Key HighlightsIntroduction - 0:20The Origins of the Left Turn - 3:21Polarization and Its Discontents - 13:18The Autocratic Temptation - 21:40Populism and the Left's Democratic Reckoning - 37:24LinksLearn more about Kenneth RobertsRead his book Polarization and Democracy in Latin America: Legacies of the Left TurnLearn more about the Kellogg Institute.Register for the 2026 Global Democracy Conference at the University of Notre Dame.Apes of the State created all MusicEmail comments or questions to jkempf@democracyparadox.comSupport the show
Transcribe →Sheri Berman Says the Democratic Recession Was Not a Surprise
Apr 2900:50:51Tap to summarizeIf democracy wants to regain the upper hand, it has to not only do a better job than the other guys, but in fact, a good job.Sheri BermanThis episode features a conversation with political scientist Sheri Berman on why today’s global "democratic recession" was actually predictable. Drawing from her deep historical research, Berman argues that every democratic wave eventually faces an "undertow," especially when the social and economic foundations of stability begin to fail. From the cautionary lessons of Weimar Germany to the modern rise of partisan "bubbles," this episode explores what we have forgotten about democratic stability and what it will take to secure its future. The Democracy Paradox is made in partnership with the Kellogg Institute of the Keough School of Global Affairs at the University of Notre Dame. Read the full transcript here.Key HighlightsIntroduction - 0:20What We Forgot About Democracy - 3:39The Social Foundations of Democracy - 13:55Inequality, Insecurity, and Policy - 28:16Universities, Cruise Control, and the Purpose of Democracy - 40:55LinksLearn more about Sheri Berman.Read her article "Democracy's Troubles Should Be No Surprise" in the Journal of Democracy.Learn more about the Kellogg Institute.Register for the 2026 Global Democracy Conference at the University of Notre Dame.Apes of the State created all MusicEmail comments or questions to jkempf@democracyparadox.comSupport the show
Transcribe →Christopher Walker Revisits Sharp Power
Apr 1500:45:09Tap to summarizeSharp power seeks to exploit the openness of free societies because their institutions are open.Christopher WalkerChristopher Walker, a leading expert on authoritarian influence, returns to the origins of the concept of "sharp power," a term he helped develop to distinguish coercive and manipulative forms of influence from Joseph Nye’s idea of soft power. While soft power relies on attraction and persuasion, Walker explains that sharp power instead works by penetrating democratic institutions, restricting debate, and shaping narratives in ways that undermine openness. The conversation situates this concept within a broader shift in global politics, where expectations of democratic expansion after the Cold War have given way to a more contested and authoritarian-influenced world.The Democracy Paradox is made in partnership with the Kellogg Institute of the Keough School of Global Affairs at the University of Notre Dame. Read the full transcript here.Key HighlightsIntroduction - 0:20The Origins of Sharp Power - 2:51How Sharp Power Works - 11:29Do Democracies Use Sharp Power? 21:15Sharp Power in the Current Geopolitical Moment - 30:32LinksLearn more about Christopher Walker.Learn more about the Kellogg Institute.Register for the 2026 Global Democracy Conference at the University of Notre Dame.Apes of the State created all MusicEmail comments or questions to jkempf@democracyparadox.comSupport the show
Transcribe →Hugo Drochon Says Elites Are Inevitable
Apr 100:47:59Tap to summarizeI don't think populism is necessarily a challenge to democracy. I think it's part and parcel of it.Hugo DrochonHugo Drochon joins The Democracy Paradox to explore why elites are an unavoidable part of democracy – and why that may not be a bad thing. Drawing on classical elite theory, he explains how democratic systems depend on the constant circulation of competing elites and why outsider movements, including populism, can play a vital role in keeping democracy responsive. The conversation challenges conventional views by reframing democracy as an ongoing, dynamic struggle rather than a fixed set of institutions.Hugo Drochon is an Associate Professor in Political Theory at the University of Nottingham and the author of a new book titled Elites and Democracy. The Democracy Paradox is made in partnership with the Kellogg Institute of the Keough School of Global Affairs at the University of Notre Dame. Read the full transcript here.Key HighlightsIntroduction - 0:20Nobody Wants to be an Elite - 3:52Lions, Foxes, and the Circulation of Elites - 15:34Is Populism a Threat to Democracy? - 31:37The Role of Ordinary Citizens - 41:12LinksLearn more about Hugo Drochon.Learn more about his upcoming book Elites and Democracy (Princeton University Press)Learn more about the Kellogg Institute.Register for the 2026 Global Democracy Conference at the University of Notre Dame.Apes of the State created all MusicEmail comments or questions to jkempf@democracyparadox.comSupport the show
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