Design Better Podcast

Episode: Astro Teller & Ivo Stivoric: Why Moonshots Require Unlearning Everything You Know

Hosts: Eli Woolery & Aarron Walter
Guests: Astro Teller (Captain of Moonshots, X – The Moonshot Factory), Ivo Stivoric (VP, X)
Date: September 10, 2025

Overview

This episode dives deep into the philosophy and practical realities of "moonshot" innovation at X (formerly Google X), exploring how radical projects are incubated through unlearning, creative constraint reframing, and a relentless focus on impactful, human-centered design. Astro Teller and Ivo Stivoric, longstanding creative partners and leaders at X, share insights from their pioneering work on wearables to their current leadership in ambitious technology for social good. The conversation grapples with how to build a culture where truly radical ideas can both thrive and survive commercial realities.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Defining Great Design Through Constraint Exploration

• Astro Teller opens the conversation by reframing design not as form-giving, but as an existential investigation of constraints:

  "Great design is actually about just helping people realize that they don't have the complete set of constraints yet." (00:01)

  • The excitement in design is in continually poking at “what needs to be solved”—not rushing to answers, but interrogating problems thoughtfully.

2. Origins of a Unique Creative Partnership

• Eli and Aarron introduce the guests, highlighting their divergent backgrounds (AI and wearable design) and shared experience at Carnegie Mellon.
• Teller and Stivoric began their collaboration on the soccer field and in wearable computing research labs, bringing together technical rigor and deep human-factor insights:

  "Leading a lab was like being a product manager... you learned from talking to the field or talking to different users...the whole idea was to get out there, learn from people first and then build something that was going to work in their spaces and their workflows." – Ivo Stivoric (04:49)

• Their joint company, BodyMedia, pivoted wearables from environment-sensing to human-sensing, leading to an eventual successful acquisition by Jawbone.

3. Breakthroughs: Sensor Fusion and Human-Centric Wearables

• Teller introduced the principle of sensor fusion, combining multiple noisy physiological inputs to reveal actionable data.

  "If you combine them in what is now known as sensor fusion, you could get a gestalt signal about what was going on with the person that was much better than any one of the underlying sensors..." – Astro Teller (08:24)

• Stivoric emphasizes understanding bodily and behavioral tolerances:

  "There was a unique opportunity there to bring a cross functional team together to build something that would actually have impact or usability in the field..." (04:49)

• Their work led to the guiding thesis: Could $10 of sensors match a $500,000 clinical device in diagnostic power? They proved it possible.

4. Transitioning Wearable Tech from Startup to Big Company

• The conversation touches on the merger of startup spirit and large-scale vision:

  "Sometimes when you're that early into a market space, people will call you pioneers. Other people will just say, well you're just early." – Ivo Stivoric (10:05)

• Success came from aligning "synergistic and complementary" technologies and thinking about platform convergence, not just products.

5. Moonshot Mentality at Google X

• Both guests explain how their early experiences—entrepreneurial grit, taking 'shots on goal,' learning through failure—prime them to steward moonshots at X.

  "Moonshots has a lot more curiosity, a lot more wrong turns. You fundamentally don't even know what the right question is." – Astro Teller (12:22) "Many of our moonshots have started in that same way. 1/2 people and a few dollars to get it kicked off and see if there's some viability..." – Ivo Stivoric (14:05)

• Unlike classic venture startups, moonshots focus on reframing the problem even as they tinker with the solution.

6. X’s Unique Definition of a Moonshot

• Astro Teller outlines the “deceptively simple” blueprint:
  1. Name the huge problem you want to solve.
  2. Science fiction-sounding solution: What radical product/service, if it existed, would actually solve it?
  3. Breakthrough technology: Do you have a glimmer of hope this could be built?
  • The process is to start cheap and small ("one and a half people, tens of thousands of dollars") and apply pressure to test for that glimmer, iterating or killing ideas quickly. (15:19)

7. Judgment and Iteration: When to Double Down or Pivot

• As the size of commitment grows, so does the rigor of judgment:

  "The judgment ramps up as the dollars being spent ramp up." – Astro Teller (17:17)

• Stivoric explains that judgment is not a gate but an ongoing, parallel process—constantly seeking feedback, critiquing, and involving outside perspectives.

  "The quote unquote judgment and to use other terms like critique is iterative and constant." (17:56)

• Ultimately, the aim is enduring, sustainable businesses—but imagination is not stifled early with rigid business constraints.

8. Reconciling Executive Pressure with Innovation’s Long Game

• The hosts explore the tension between corporate accountability and the patience required for true moonshots.
  • Teller notes Alphabet’s “primed pump” allows for patience—early pain with no immediate output, setting the stage for an ongoing innovation pipeline.

  "Really, the money that goes in now, a lot of it is actually investing for, like, the deep future...you have to take the pain of money goes in and nothing comes out for seven or eight years before you get to that magical place." – Astro Teller (21:10)

• Stivoric adds that maintaining "constant advanced development" is a core value, making the organization resilient to business shocks and ready to capitalize when timing converges. (22:49)

9. Design Thinking: Beyond "Design Theater"

• As “design thinking” has become a buzzword (and sometimes a punchline), the hosts challenge whether X’s process is meaningfully different.
• Teller distances himself from superficial design rituals:

  "I'm not a designer. I'm not even close. I'm excited about design, especially kind of in the broader sense, but I'm not a designer." (25:04)

• He prefers a deeper, systemic view: design is about shaping constraints and orchestrating discovery—not just convening brainstorms.

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Astro Teller:

  "Great design is actually about just helping people realize that they don't have the complete set of constraints yet." (00:01)

• Ivo Stivoric:

  "You were never going to do anything like really brand new in interaction design if you couldn't tap [into human senses]." (06:21) "Sometimes...people will call you pioneers. Other people will just say, well you're just early." (10:05)

• Astro Teller:

  "Moonshots has a lot more curiosity, a lot more wrong turns. You fundamentally don't even know what the right question is." (12:22) "The judgment ramps up as the dollars being spent ramp up." (17:17) "Really, the money that goes in now, a lot of it is actually investing for, like, the deep future..." (21:10)

• Ivo Stivoric:

  "The quote unquote judgment and to use other terms like critique is iterative and constant." (17:56)

Key Timestamps for Major Segments

• 00:01 Opening thoughts on design and constraints (Astro Teller)
• 04:14 Origins of the Teller-Stivoric partnership at Carnegie Mellon
• 06:21 Rethinking wearables: from environmental to human-centric sensing
• 08:24 Introduction of sensor fusion and its impact
• 10:05 Transition from startup to Jawbone acquisition
• 12:22 How entrepreneurial mindsets transfer to moonshots at X
• 15:19 X’s operational definition of a moonshot
• 17:17 Explaining judgment and iteration as moonshots ramp up
• 21:10 Discussing the challenge/tension between innovation and corporate timescales
• 24:25 Critique of design thinking’s mainstream misuse and X’s approach

Final Takeaway

Astro Teller and Ivo Stivoric reveal that real moonshot innovation is not about chasing shiny tech, but about unlearning default patterns, reframing constraints, and orchestrating a parallel process of curiosity, critique, and patience. Their long partnership illustrates how creative abrasion and humility fuel heroic ambitions—whether it's wearable health for all or tackling humanity’s existential challenges in climate, food, and beyond. X’s model is driven not by fast returns but by shaping a safe yet urgent sandbox for bold ideas to gestate—a timely lesson for anyone who dreams of building what doesn’t exist yet.

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