Design Better Podcast Summary
Episode: Cecilia Brenner: Moving beyond design theater to measurable impact
Date: November 18, 2025
Hosts: Eli Woolery & Aarron Walter (The Curiosity Department, Sponsored by Wix Studio)
Guest: Cecilia Brenner, Managing Director at Design for Good
Episode Overview
In this engaging episode, Eli Woolery and Aarron Walter sit down with Cecilia Brenner to discuss how designers can move beyond "design theater"—projects that look good on paper but do little in the real world—toward creating tangible, measurable impact. They focus on Cecilia’s leadership at Design for Good, a nonprofit mobilizing a global coalition of 1,600 designers across major companies to tackle UN Sustainable Development Goals (SDGs) through radical, collaborative, and open-source initiatives. The episode explores practical pathways for designers seeking meaningful work, how large-scale, purpose-driven efforts can genuinely “move the needle,” and why a shift from human-centered to life-centered design is critical for the future of the field.
Key Discussion Points and Insights
1. Cecilia Brenner’s Transition from Corporate to Nonprofit
- Background: Seventeen years at Philips in health innovation (04:28)
- Initial Involvement: Joined Design for Good while still at Philips as a project design lead.
- Motivation: Sought greater purpose, scaling her impact beyond corporate boundaries.
- Quote: “What better job could there be to actually design the world a little bit better every day?” (05:37)
2. Design for Good: Structure and Approach
- Mission: Mobilize a worldwide creative alliance for measurable impact on UN SDGs while allowing designers to retain their day jobs. (06:41)
- Scale: 1,600 designers, 30 countries, with corporate partners like Philips, Nestlé, Nedbank, Lloyds Bank.
- Method: Each cycle lasts two years; one SDG is addressed per cycle for focus and efficiency (08:01, 09:35).
- First cycle: SDG 6 – Clean Water and Sanitation
- Second cycle: SDG 4 – Quality Education
- Next focus: SDGs 3 & 13 – People and Planet Health (09:10)
- Selection Criteria:
- Urgency,
- Potential for high/quick impact,
- Diversity of solution types (09:35).
- Open Source Commitment: All outputs are open source, enabling broad impact (00:52).
3. From “Design Theater” to Measurable Impact
- Problem: Most design initiatives solve for ideas, not real-world results (08:01).
- Solution:
- No project starts without a clear, actionable brief from a local NGO or charity (11:16).
- Metrics and implementation are agreed upon from the onset to ensure deliverables are grounded in community needs.
- Impact is measured through implementation outcomes, not projections or estimates (11:35).
- Quote: “There is no design team starting this exercise without a clear brief from a development organization with the clear measures. Because at the end of the two years, whatever we have created, we make sure to implement it back into that local NGO… That is where lasting change happens.” (11:16)
4. Design for Good’s Project Model
- Time Commitment: Designers commit minimum 5 days per year; most commit more out of passion (13:01).
- Project Phases:
- Year 1: Innovation (design and conceptualize)
- Year 2: Implementation (launch and measure) (12:42)
- Roles: Multi-disciplinary teams assembled per project needs; other skills (development, copy, game design, etc.) are sourced as needed (14:05).
- Volunteer Model: Retain day jobs, contribute through the alliance—collaboration is cross-company and cross-border.
5. From Human-Centered to Life-Centered Design
- Philosophy Shift:
- Move beyond just serving human needs; design with a system and planetary context in mind (15:22).
- Focus on giving “nature a voice” and ecosystem mapping as skillsets.
- Quote: “A holistic way where you are more interconnected with nature and where you are actually giving nature a voice in the design process... more so than just thinking we’re designing for a user.” (15:22)
- Capacity Building:
- Design for Good Academy (in partnership with Royal College of Art) trains designers in co-design, impact measurement, ecosystem mapping, and integrating nature into design.
- Quote: “We started our first cohort a year ago with 279 designers. Last cohort had a double up… and in October we hope over 1000.” (17:25)
6. Practicalities: Research, Prototyping, and Local Context
- On-the-Ground Insights: Whenever possible, teams travel to locations for field research (Mexico, in one project). (19:04)
- Remote Collaboration: Intensive focus on improving collaboration and prototyping tools; exploring AI to facilitate better remote research and accelerate prototyping (19:04, 20:03).
- Cross-Cultural Design: Academy trains designers to work effectively across languages, cultures, and unfamiliar domains.
Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments
-
On Burnout and Purpose:
“After 17 years at Philips, Cecilia Brenner wasn't burnt out. She loved it and wanted to find a way to scale her sense of purpose.”
— Eli Woolery [00:30] -
On Making Real Change:
"Are we really doing what we can here, or are we doing a little bit more of the design theater? Designers love ideas, but are we actually implementing them?”
— Cecilia Brenner [08:01] -
On Collaboration:
“We believe you can only [make lasting impact] through worldwide collaboration.”
— Cecilia Brenner [06:41] -
On Open Sourcing Solutions:
“Everything they create is totally open source.”
— Aaron Walter [00:52] -
On Training for Wicked Problems:
“Even though we have access to the most talented designers in the world, there’s something different when designing for these wicked problems.”
— Cecilia Brenner [16:48] -
On Life-Centered Design:
“It’s a deep system-thinking awareness… There are many other key stakeholders in the ecosystem.”
— Cecilia Brenner [15:22]
Timestamps for Major Segments
- [04:28] – Cecilia’s career journey and transition to Design for Good
- [06:41] – Design for Good’s structure and how it mobilizes designers
- [08:01] – Focusing on UN Sustainable Development Goals; choosing where to act
- [11:16] – Process for setting clear, measurable impact goals
- [12:42] – Phased approach: innovation year and implementation year
- [13:44] – Roles, skills, and how projects are staffed/collaborated
- [15:22] – Shift from Human-Centered to Life-Centered Design
- [16:48] – Capacity-building: The Academy, training for new skills
- [19:04] – Conducting field research and challenges of international design
- [20:03] – Potential of AI for prototyping and collaboration
Tone and Style
The conversation is candid, practical, and forward-thinking, with a consistent theme of optimism and attainable change. Both hosts and Cecilia speak directly to practitioners—designers seeking deeper meaning and CEOs pondering organizational impact—with clear examples, actionable advice, and optimism about the power of collective, purpose-driven design.
Conclusion
This episode provides an inspiring, actionable model for any designer looking to make a real difference in the world—whether through Design for Good or by bringing system-level, life-centered thinking to their current work. It also shows the potential, and the responsibility, for design leaders to move from performative acts to projects with genuine, measured, and lasting results.