Design Better – "Rewind: Paola Antonelli: How Design Shapes Culture"

Published: October 1, 2025
Hosts: Eli Woolery & Aaron Walter
Guest: Paola Antonelli, Senior Curator, Department of Architecture & Design, MoMA

Episode Overview

In this "rewind" episode, the Design Better podcast revisits an insightful conversation with Paola Antonelli, renowned Senior Curator at the Museum of Modern Art (MoMA). The discussion delves into the profound ways design shapes culture and daily life—spanning everything from the origins of digital symbols to the evolution of design movements and the vital interplay between art, craft, and responsibility in design. Antonelli reflects on her curatorial work, the challenge and privilege of collecting groundbreaking objects (from the humble @ sign to interactive video games), and the importance of design history, materials, and social context.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Paola Antonelli's Path to MoMA & Philosophy of Design

• Background: Antonelli shares her journey from studying architecture in Milan, teaching at UCLA, and working as a freelance curator to responding to a job posting for MoMA nearly 29 years ago.
  [03:16]
• Design’s Definition: She conceptualizes design as the "coming together of goals and means," suggesting little difference between digital code and wood—both are materials serving a function.

  "I always think that it's a coming together of goals and means. You have a goal... The means are the materials, so there's not much difference... between wood and code." —Paola Antonelli [04:46]

2. Curating and Collecting Design in Modern Times

• MoMA’s Distinction: The museum leverages its "modern" title to be selective and opinionated in its collection, unlike broader institutions like the Smithsonian.
• Philosophy in Presenting Design: Every collection needs a clear, articulated viewpoint, which the public should hold curators accountable to.

  "It's important for the curators to state [the collection goals] clearly, and then the public should hold them to it." —Paola Antonelli [06:39]

3. Design Movements & Historical Context

• A whirlwind tour of key design history touchpoints:
  • Industrial Revolution & Crystal Palace Expo (1860s)
  • Arts & Crafts and Shakers Movements
  • Organic design—Art Nouveau, Bauhaus
  • Post-WWII mid-century modernism (Eames)
  • Radical design of the 1960s and 1970s
• She acknowledges the Eurocentric and male-dominated slant of many traditional histories and the ongoing effort to rebalance perspectives.

  "Design is...the most important creative endeavor that humans have...art is very important, but design shapes our world." —Paola Antonelli [18:56]

4. Object Stories: Symbols, Video Games, and the @ Sign

• ‘Never Alone’ Exhibition: Highlights MoMA's collection of interactive design and video games (35+ titles), as well as innovative projects like the iWriter.

• The @ Symbol:

  • Traces its evolution from a ligature in medieval manuscripts, to a merchants’ and accountants’ notation, to Ray Tomlinson’s choice for email addresses in 1971.
  • Discusses the philosophical implication of acquiring a public domain symbol—not as ownership but as "anointment."

  "Our job is not to own and lock under key, but rather to show the audience the marvels of design." —Paola Antonelli [11:44]

• Other Symbols: Creative Commons, the On/Off sign (with IEEE), and "I ❤ NY."

  • The complexity of collecting symbols where ownership varies, from public domain (the @ sign) to strictly licensed images (I ❤ NY).

5. Material, Craft, and the Machine/Human Tension

• Craft & Experimentation: Advanced materials demand advanced craft—machines capable of working them usually lag behind innovation.

• Modern Examples: New 3D printing techniques that blend craft and technology, adaptive reuse projects in China, and the concept of “knitted” 3D printing.

  "The more advanced the materials, the more you need crafts, because the machines to work them do not exist yet." —Paola Antonelli [20:54]

• AI & Craft: In contrast to harmony in 3D and physical design, Antonelli observes greater tension in the AI space between craft and automation.

6. Evolution (and Challenges) in the Creative Process

• Core Process: At its essence, design remains the balancing of goals and means.
• Design Education: Rising educational costs stifle experimentation; students often prioritize employability and debt repayment over risk-taking and creative exploration.
• Digital Materials: Code as a modern material—potentially equally challenging and creatively rich as physical substances.

  "When a discipline is creative, it should be protected a little bit from the despair of finding immediately a job instead of trying to build a career." —Paola Antonelli [26:26]

7. Code, Design, and Responsibility

• Code as Craft & Poetry: Code can be as elegantly or poorly crafted as traditional objects—its impact should be judged by its generosity and function for people (never “consumers,” always “citizens”).

  "Code is for us, just like chairs are for us." —Paola Antonelli [28:49]

• Distinction from Art: Design, by definition, carries responsibility to others; art allows for a more self-centered or individualistic approach.

  "An artist can choose whether to be responsible towards other human beings or not. And instead, a designer has to be, by definition." —Paola Antonelli [31:46]

8. Art, Design, and the Necessity of Play

• Education’s Balancing Act: A robust program should feed both art and engineering “diets” for designers.
• The Myth of ‘Play’: Antonelli resists the romanticization of play—prototyping, iteration, and acceptance of failure are intrinsic to creative work but aren’t necessarily “play” as popularly imagined.

  "The creative process is all about trying and being ready to accept the fact that something doesn't work and then trying again." —Paola Antonelli [35:01]

9. Responsibility and Sustainability in Contemporary Design

• Exhibitions: Projects like "Broken Nature" and "Life Cycles" focus on extinction, cradle-to-cradle thinking, and design responsibility at scale—emphasizing material origin, life, and post-use legacy.
• Design as Social Tool: Antonelli champions design as a force for citizenship, justice, and equity.

  "Design is one of the most important tools to be better, more responsible citizens and... weapons against injustice." —Paola Antonelli [39:05]

10. Curation Challenges: Interactivity vs. Preservation

• MoMA’s massive visitor numbers make interactive exhibits (e.g., sitting in iconic chairs) logistically unsustainable, despite their inherent intent to be used and experienced. Exceptions exist for video games and select objects.
• Other design museums have tried hands-on approaches but often revert due to practical constraints.

11. What Excites Paola in Design Now

• Local, Smart Interventions: Innovative adaptations (e.g., 3D-printed structures in rural China; salt handles for antimicrobial properties in Arles, France).
• Design for Social Good: Designers creating systems (like fluid football teams in sports to promote social cohesion) rather than just objects.

  "I'm excited about people... that do not necessarily design chairs... but rather design new ways of thinking about the world." —Paola Antonelli [43:00]

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• "It's a little bit like art, right? You can't really give a definition... you have a goal and the goal can be functional... the means are the materials; there's not much difference ...between wood and code." —Paola Antonelli [00:49 & 04:46]
• "I'm really proud of [the @ sign] as an acquisition...it is everybody's. It's in the public domain. So it's not an acquisition, it's an anointment." —Paola Antonelli [11:44]
• "Design is...the most important creative endeavor that humans have. ...it’s necessary for people to have knowledge of it." —Paola Antonelli [18:56]
• "The more advanced the materials, the more you need crafts, because the machines to work them do not exist yet." —Paola Antonelli [20:54]
• "When a discipline is creative, it should be protected a little bit from the despair of finding immediately a job instead of trying to build a career." —Paola Antonelli [26:26]
• "An artist can choose whether to be responsible towards other human beings or not. A designer has to be, by definition." —Paola Antonelli [31:46]
• "Our job is not to own and lock under key, but rather to show the audience the marvels of design." —Paola Antonelli [11:44]
• "I'm excited about people... that design new ways of thinking about the world." —Paola Antonelli [43:00]
• "I don't ever use the word consumer because I really detest it...we're citizens, but code is for us, just like chairs are for us." —Paola Antonelli [28:49]

Important Timestamps

• Brief History & Definition of Design: [00:49], [04:46]
• MoMA Collection Philosophy & Bauhaus Roots: [06:39], [16:24]
• Video Games, the @ Symbol, and Acquiring Symbols: [09:14]–[12:44]
• Milton Glaser’s I ❤ NY and Emojis: [13:06]–[15:50]
• Design Movements: 1860s to 20th Century: [17:01]–[19:47]
• Tension: Man vs. Machine & AI/3D Printing: [19:47]–[23:26]
• Creative Process & Education Challenges: [24:45]–[27:20]
• Code as Design Material: [27:20]–[30:44]
• Art vs. Design Responsibilities & Market Forces: [30:44]–[32:57]
• Play, Failure, and Iteration in Creativity: [32:57]–[35:41]
• Packaging & Sustainability: [35:41]–[37:43]
• Responsibility in Design ("Broken Nature", "Life Cycles"): [37:43]–[39:29]
• Curation Dilemmas—Touch vs. Preserve: [40:05]–[41:25]
• Design Trends Exciting Paola: [41:25]–[43:39]

Resources & Further Exploration

• Design Emergency: Instagram: @designemergency
• Design & Violence: MoMA: Design and Violence
• Broken Nature: Broken Nature Podcast

Final Thoughts

The episode is a masterclass in thinking deeply about the purpose, process, and impact of design. Paola Antonelli encourages designers to embrace history, practice discernment in collecting and curating, and to see design as a powerful agent of cultural and social change. Her insights underscore the importance of context, materiality, experimentation, and above all, responsibility in shaping not only objects, but the very fabric of human experience.