Design Better Podcast: Susan Magsamen and Ivy Ross – Your Brain on Art

Episode Title: Susan Magsamen and Ivy Ross: Your Brain on Art
Release Date: April 24, 2025
Hosts: Eli Woolery and Aaron Walter
Guests: Susan Magsammon, Executive Director of the International Arts and Mind Lab at Johns Hopkins School of Medicine; Ivy Ross, Chief Design Officer for Consumer Devices at Google

Introduction

In this captivating episode of Design Better, hosts Eli Woolery and Aaron Walter engage in an enlightening conversation with Susan Magsammon and Ivy Ross about the profound connection between art and the human brain. The discussion delves into how creative expression influences our physiology, enhances longevity, and fosters better team performance. This episode not only highlights the scientific underpinnings of art’s impact but also showcases practical applications within corporate environments to harness creativity and reduce stress.

Collaboration and the Book "Your Brain on Art"

The episode begins with an introduction to Susan Magsammon’s groundbreaking research on the effects of art on the mind and body. Susan, along with Ivy Ross, co-authored the influential book "Your Brain on Art: How the Arts Transform Us."

Susan Magsammon explains, “[...] the arts and aesthetic experiences are the most salient kinds of inputs. [...] we have so much content that our brains process the information that is important to us, whether it's practically important or emotionally important. That's called saliency” (04:07).

Ivy Ross shares the genesis of their collaboration:
"We curated. It was like Noah's Ark. Two of everything [...] at the end we had this huge globe that was like eight feet with everyone's creativity and energy in different sections of the globe." (30:44)

Their collaboration stemmed from a shared passion to merge neuroscience with design, ultimately leading to the creation of their book, which underscores the transformative power of the arts.

The Science of Art: Neuroscience Insights

Neural Pathways and Child Development

Susan delves into the neurological aspects, emphasizing that humans are inherently wired for the arts. She states, “when you're born, you're born with about 100 billion neurons. [...] child development, early learning, is so important because it's that time, the first five to seven years of life, where we are really making these connections” (04:07).

Saliency and Aesthetic Inputs

Artistic experiences are described as highly salient inputs that significantly influence our neurophysiology. Susan elaborates, “[...] arts and aesthetic experiences are the most salient kinds of inputs. [...] these art forms are the ways that we really grow and learn at the most profound levels” (04:07).

Longevity and Health Benefits

One of the most striking claims discussed is the impact of art on longevity. Susan references research by Daisy Fancourt, revealing that engagement in art activities can extend life expectancy by up to ten years. She explains, “there is no way we could get done what we need to get. But even doing it every so often [...] living 24 7. I walk the talk, you know, and it's because I was raised in a family where ritual and tradition and Making and coming together [...] really have disassociated and disconnected ourselves” (36:16).

Art’s Impact on Creativity and Productivity

Managing the Default Mode Network

The conversation shifts to the role of the brain’s default mode network (DMN) in creativity. Susan discusses how engaging with art can quiet the DMN, facilitating a flow state conducive to creative breakthroughs:
“[...] there's a part of the prefrontal cortex that turns on. [...] when you're in a flow state, it's timeless. [...] you're totally in the zone. [...] you're actually just being” (13:33).

Flow States and Creativity

Aaron relates this to his personal experience in painting, noting the ease of creativity when not striving for perfection. Susan adds, “you just being just being. [...] reflection and introspection” (13:33).

The Importance of Pauses

Ivy underscores the necessity of pauses in fostering creativity:
“We've been optimizing for productivity and efficiency and, you know, work, work, work, work, work, do, do, do, do and never take those pauses to understand that that is critical to then inform and come up with better ideas” (16:11).

Practical Applications in the Workplace

Google’s Integration of Art Practices

Ivy shares innovative practices implemented at Google to integrate art into the corporate setting. This includes introducing tuning forks for stress reduction and creating sandbox time for employees to explore without preconceived outcomes:
“We built things into the schedule up front, like we call it in the sandbox. But time to just explore without a preconceived outcome, which is the concept of play” (17:36).

Workshops and Team-building Activities

The guests describe various workshops designed to enhance creativity and reduce stress. Examples include:

• Poetry Writing Classes: Ivy recounts bringing a poet to Google, leading to shared creative experiences that strengthened team bonds (09:48).
• Sculpture and Weaving Workshops: Facilitating hands-on activities that engage both hemispheres of the brain, fostering innovative thinking (42:10).

Ivy Ross notes the impact of these activities:
"The amazing connective tissue that formed [...] Relationships formed and bonds changed, and it was beautiful." (09:48).

Outcomes and Benefits

Susan emphasizes the tangible benefits observed: “singing once a week with someone with Alzheimer's lowers medication, increases the quality of life for that person[...] three to one return on investment” (36:16).

Creativity and the Default Mode Network

Aaron expands on the relationship between creativity and the DMN, questioning how quieting the DMN can enhance creative exploration. Susan responds by explaining the neuroscience behind flow states, where reduced activity in the DMN allows for heightened creativity and presence:
“[...] when you're moving into flow, that turns off. [...] you're not reflecting, not analyzing, you're not deciding [...] the default mode network really does” (13:33).

Integrating Art into Corporate and Team Environments

Innovative Practices at Google

Ivy discusses practical implementations at Google to foster a creative environment:

• Tuning Beds: Equipment that allows designers to enter flow states through music frequencies (17:36).
• Structured Playtime: Allocating specific times for creative exploration without immediate productivity goals (17:36).

Encouraging Diverse Creative Hobbies

Ivy emphasizes hiring individuals with diverse creative hobbies, believing that such activities build neural connections beneficial to their roles:
“I always look to hire people who do something or have a hobby that is different than what they're doing for their job because I think all those experiences teach you and make new neuro connections” (17:36).

The Broader Implications of Art in Society

Addressing Loneliness and Community Building

Susan highlights the role of art in fostering community and combating loneliness: “arts are kind of that weave that glue, that connector, that bridge. And it's a way to really find common ground and to respect differences” (34:25).

Economic and Healthcare Benefits

The guests discuss the economic implications of integrating art into healthcare and other sectors: “singing once a week with someone with Alzheimer's lowers medication [...] return on investment in someone with Alzheimer's if they sing once a week” (36:16).

Current Inspirations and Future Directions

Susan’s Recent Inspirations

Susan shares her recent experiences that inspire her work: “I just came back from Crystal Bridges in Bentonville, Arkansas [...] and then I went to another space in upstate California called 1440 multiversity” (46:19).

Ivy’s Creative Pursuits

Ivy discusses her personal projects and interests that continue to influence her professional work: “I have been deeply immersed in a little bit more of quantum physics and what does it mean to make the invisible visible” (47:34).

Conclusion

The episode concludes with heartfelt thanks exchanged between the hosts and guests, emphasizing the importance of integrating art into various facets of life and work. Susan and Ivy's insights reveal a compelling narrative of how the arts are not just a means of expression but fundamental to human health, creativity, and community.

Notable Quotes:

• Ivy Ross: “We've been optimizing for productivity and efficiency and, you know, work, work, work, work, work, do, do, do, do and never take those pauses to understand that that is critical” (16:11).
• Susan Magsammon: “arts and aesthetic experiences are the most salient kinds of inputs” (04:07).
• Ivy Ross: “you have to build the rest. How do you reconcile that” (17:36).

Key Takeaways

1. Art as a Neurophysiological Necessity: Humans are biologically wired for art, which plays a critical role in brain development and function.
2. Health and Longevity Benefits: Regular engagement in the arts can significantly enhance physical health and extend lifespan.
3. Enhancing Creativity and Productivity: Integrating art into work environments fosters creativity, reduces stress, and improves team dynamics.
4. Community Building: Art serves as a bridge to build stronger, more connected communities, addressing issues like loneliness and social disconnection.
5. Economic and Healthcare Impact: Investments in the arts yield substantial returns in healthcare and economic sectors by improving quality of life and reducing costs.

Further Resources

• Book: Your Brain on Art: How the Arts Transform Us by Susan Magsammon and Ivy Ross
• Johns Hopkins International Arts and Mind Lab: Website
• Google Design – Ivy Ross: Profile
• Crystal Bridges Museum of American Art: Website
• 1440 Multiversity: Website

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This summary provides a comprehensive overview of the "Susan Magsamen and Ivy Ross: Your Brain on Art" episode, highlighting the essential discussions and key insights shared by the guests. Whether you're a design professional or simply curious about the power of art, this episode offers valuable perspectives on integrating creativity into various aspects of life and work.