Design Matters with Debbie Millman
20th Anniversary Celebration with Culinary Creatives
Guests: Julia Turshen, Christina Tosi, Gabrielle Hamilton, Fanny Singer, Will Guidara
Date: November 10, 2025
Episode Overview
This special 20th anniversary episode of Design Matters celebrates the intersection of food, creativity, and life design through conversations with culinary visionaries: cookbook author Julia Turshen, Milk Bar founder Christina Tosi, acclaimed restaurateur and writer Gabrielle Hamilton, design entrepreneur Fanny Singer, and hospitality leader Will Guidara. Through revisited interviews and memorable stories, host Debbie Millman explores how these guests have designed not just their food, but the arc of their lives, illustrating the creative process in the kitchen and beyond.
Key Discussion Points & Insights
1. Julia Turshen: The Art of Recipe Writing
Segment starts: 04:20
- Early Passions and Education:
- Turshen recounts her childhood obsession with cookbooks and family support in following her interests.
- Chose a liberal arts path at Barnard (studying poetry and sculpture) instead of culinary school to become a better communicator.
- Quote: “When you know, you know… if I knew how to communicate effectively, I could do anything. I already knew how to cook. I didn't want to go to culinary school.” — Julia Turshen [05:51]
- Creativity in Recipes:
- Links between writing poetry and writing recipes: both require concise, evocative communication.
- Quote: “Writing a recipe and writing a poem are very similar. You're trying to convey this idea as economically as possible.” — Julia Turshen [06:59]
- Links between writing poetry and writing recipes: both require concise, evocative communication.
- Recipe Testing:
- Discovers recipe testing as a teen, seeing it as a less obvious but vital career in food.
- Emphasizes the importance of empathy for home cooks and the need for flexibility and experience in adjusting recipes.
2. Christina Tosi: Joyful Experimentation in Baking
Segment starts: 12:41
- Inventiveness as a Teen:
- Daily cookie and improvised “Rice Krispie treats” experiments in high school pantry with whatever cereals were on hand.
- Quote: “The Rice Krispies rarely had Rice Krispies in them... it became the look on their face when they're bonding with this crazy, kooky Rice Krispie treat… the kitchen became the place where I could ask the question, what if?” — Christina Tosi [13:27, 14:43]
- Daily cookie and improvised “Rice Krispie treats” experiments in high school pantry with whatever cereals were on hand.
- Embracing Picky Eating:
- Tosi was a selective eater as a child; sweets were her domain of control and delight.
- Did not try a raw tomato until age 18, highlighting her transformation into a curious chef.
- Quote: “I think it was one place that I could actually have control and drive people a little crazy. I don't eat that. I mean, I eat sweet...” — Christina Tosi [18:03]
- Creativity as a Calling:
- Transitioned from applied math/engineering studies to the French Culinary Institute.
- Saw the kitchen as a space for exploration, autonomy, and creativity.
- Quote: “I had a voice in my head that was like, I want to be creative for a living. And that was something that was not a part of my upbringing... so I kind of set out to figure out what that was.” — Christina Tosi [22:20]
- A Relentless Work Ethic:
- Sped through college, craved direct experience, and excelled in professional baking.
3. Gabrielle Hamilton: Merging Cooking and Writing
Segment starts: 25:59
- Prune’s Origins:
- Opened Prune in 1999 in NYC’s East Village, aiming to provide top-quality food in a relaxed, inclusive space.
- Quote: “I wanted a place you could go after work or on your day off if you had only a line cook's paycheck but also a line cook's palate.” — Gabrielle Hamilton [03:03, replayed at 29:25]
- Opened Prune in 1999 in NYC’s East Village, aiming to provide top-quality food in a relaxed, inclusive space.
- From Writer to Chef and Back:
- Letting go of her writer identity provided clarity and purpose, only for the two paths (writing and cooking) to merge later.
- Quote: “I said to myself, like, you're not a writer, lady... you're a cook. And it was incredibly liberating... miraculously, the two paths reconverge.” — Gabrielle Hamilton [26:25]
- Letting go of her writer identity provided clarity and purpose, only for the two paths (writing and cooking) to merge later.
- Cultural Shifts in the Industry:
- Changes over two decades: from personal touch and small gestures to corporate branding and commodification.
- Quote: “What used to be...citizen restaurant has become...an unruly and colossal beast... What was once your personality has now become your brand.” — Gabrielle Hamilton [32:57]
- Changes over two decades: from personal touch and small gestures to corporate branding and commodification.
- Pandemic Reflections:
- Closing Prune in March 2020 was emotionally and spiritually exhausting; the closure symbolized industry-wide uncertainty.
4. Fanny Singer: Home, Memory and Intuition
Segment starts: 39:40
- Food Memories and Sensory Experiences:
- Recounts her first taste of gelato in Italy as a transcendent childhood memory.
- Quote: “The taste...was intoxicating...I wanted to merge with this food, not just to eat it, but to experience it.” — Fanny Singer [40:04]
- Recounts her first taste of gelato in Italy as a transcendent childhood memory.
- Instinct in the Kitchen:
- Advocates tossing salad with hands for intuition and better result.
- Quote: “You have to toss salad with your hands...it acquaints you with what your dish needs and helps you feel more intuitive about...corrections that need to be made.” — Fanny Singer [42:55]
- Advocates tossing salad with hands for intuition and better result.
- Food Sharing as Affection:
- Views sharing and “stealing” food from others’ plates as a gesture of intimacy and curiosity.
- Quote: “I've always bristled at a date who's like, I'm ordering my dish, you're ordering your dish...what's the point?” — Fanny Singer [44:41]
- Views sharing and “stealing” food from others’ plates as a gesture of intimacy and curiosity.
- Distaste for Precision in Baking:
- Finds baking’s demands for exactness incompatible with her personality; prefers improvisation and bold flavors.
- Quote: “I just didn’t have the mathematics or reflexes for baking... I’m very happy to go back to salad.” — Fanny Singer [47:18]
- Finds baking’s demands for exactness incompatible with her personality; prefers improvisation and bold flavors.
5. Will Guidara: Designing Hospitality and Culture
Segment starts: 48:34
- Hospitality as Design:
- Inspired by restaurateur Danny Meyer, who brought intention and creativity to hospitality, not just food.
- Quote: “He was the only person in America...bringing the same amount of creativity and intention to what was happening in the dining room...” — Will Guidara [48:59]
- Inspired by restaurateur Danny Meyer, who brought intention and creativity to hospitality, not just food.
- Building Culture through Language and Care:
- Meyer’s “isms” created a culture where caring is celebrated, not dismissed as uncool.
- Quote: “Where people stop pretending to care less in order to be cool. But rather the environment celebrates the people that care more.” — Will Guidara [51:43]
- Meyer’s “isms” created a culture where caring is celebrated, not dismissed as uncool.
- Learning from Diverse Experiences:
- Guided by advice from his father, worked both at the corporate level and on the restaurant floor to become well-rounded.
- Quote: “There are corporate smart companies...and there are restaurant smart companies...my dad wanted me to learn from different companies...and take the best from each.” — Will Guidara [53:28]
- Guided by advice from his father, worked both at the corporate level and on the restaurant floor to become well-rounded.
- Creativity Fueled by Business Acumen:
- Emphasizes that financial health is essential to creative hospitality.
- Quote: “The more resources you have to invest in being creative, the more creative you can be.” — Will Guidara [45:45, also 55:58]
- Emphasizes that financial health is essential to creative hospitality.
- The Importance of Hands-on Work:
- Simultaneously doing accounting and purchasing made abstract business concepts real and fostered deeper understanding of both sides of operations.
Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments
-
“Writing a recipe and writing a poem are very similar... you're trying to convey this idea as economically as possible.”
— Julia Turshen [06:59] -
“The kitchen became the place where I could ask the question, what if?”
— Christina Tosi [14:43] -
“I wanted a place you could go after work or on your day off if you had only a line cook's paycheck but also a line cook's palate.”
— Gabrielle Hamilton [03:03, 29:25] -
“You have to toss salad with your hands... it really acquaints you with what your dish needs.”
— Fanny Singer [42:55] -
“The more resources you have to invest in being creative, the more creative you can be.”
— Will Guidara [45:45, 55:58]
Timestamps for Key Segments
- 04:20 — Julia Turshen on recipe writing, testing, and creative process
- 12:41 — Christina Tosi on baking, experimentation, and her path to pastry
- 25:59 — Gabrielle Hamilton on starting Prune, balancing writing and cooking
- 39:40 — Fanny Singer on food memory, culinary intuition, and kitchen improvisation
- 48:34 — Will Guidara on hospitality design, company culture, and creative empowerment
Concluding Note
Through these lively conversations and reflective moments, Design Matters illustrates that creative careers—whether in food, design, or hospitality—are shaped not just by passion and talent, but by an ongoing process of questioning, intuitive experimentation, and purposeful culture-building. The 20th anniversary celebration is a testament to how food can be as much about design as about flavor, and how the way we create and connect at the table shapes our broader lives.