Design Matters with Debbie Millman

20th Anniversary Celebration with Eileen Myles, Elizabeth Alexander, Sarah Kay, & Amber Tamblyn

Date: January 12, 2026
Host: Debbie Millman
Guests: Eileen Myles, Elizabeth Alexander, Sarah Kay, Amber Tamblyn

Episode Overview

On the special 20th anniversary episode of "Design Matters," Debbie Millman revisits conversations with four renowned poets she’s hosted over the years: Eileen Myles, Elizabeth Alexander, Sarah Kay, and Amber Tamblyn. Through personal reflections, readings, and candid discussions, the episode explores how poetry shapes lives, how creative expression is found and fostered, and the challenges and triumphs unique to each artist's journey.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Eileen Myles: The Life and Creation of a Poet

Segment start: [04:38]

• Poetry as Profession & Identity

  • On public perception:
    • "No, they look at you like you said you were a mime. It would be cool if they looked at you if they thought you were a stripper. They just thought, why? ... Part of what's interesting about being a poet is that nobody knows, you know, that it's sort of like what people don't get is that it's almost like you're like a professional human."
      — Eileen Myles [04:38]
  • The poet as epic hero: “You’re kind of saying, what’s—Here you are... That is the job of the poet.” [05:11]

• Foundational Moments

  • Moving to NYC and being mentored in alternative poetry circles.
  • On poetry communities: “There were just a lot of little heaps on the top. And that's how the poetry world sort of always was and was then.” [06:28]
  • Describes the influence of outsider art lineage on their development.

• School of Poetry

  • Preference for the “folk” or vernacular approach, seeking immediacy over preciousness. [07:26]

• Transformation & Translation

  • "Any of us who come from another class on any level can't stay home and do, you know... you have to take what you have someplace else." [08:02]
  • On translating avant-garde male poetic styles into queer and lesbian realities.

• On Allen Ginsberg and 'Howl'

  • Connection to lineage and poetic incantation, awareness of undercurrents such as the Holocaust in “Howl.”
    • "Those boxcars are carrying lots of Jews to the camps. I can't imagine being a Jew in America in the 50s and not thinking about that." [09:09]

• Publishing & Process

  • First book self-published on a mimeograph at St. Mark's Church ([10:22]), early readings at CBGB’s, and the joy and nervousness of performing.

• Reflection on Early Work

  • "Nostalgic and proud, not ever horrified. ... In the DNA of everything you write, is everything else you're ever gonna write." [12:11]

• On Autobiography and Language’s Limitations

  • “Once you put pen to paper or start typing in whatever format, on some level, you're lying... it’s a symbol of the thing.” [13:13]

• Poetry Reading:

  • “Rampant Muse” is read, blending life, love, and defiance, and dedicated to queer experience. [14:01–14:56]

2. Elizabeth Alexander: Memory, Identity, and the Discipline of Art

Segment start: [15:30]

• Disciplined Creation

  • Ballet as foundational for developing discipline and persistence in art.
    • "Finding a discipline. Discipline is discipline. ... And understanding that, you know, you don't get the immediate payback necessarily. And also that just because you've, you know, got a little flair ... you have to resist defaulting to that." [17:06]

• Craft and Memory

  • The interplay of autobiographical truth and poetic memory:
    • "Sometimes I almost remember it like I wrote it, rather than as it happened..." [18:40]
    • On believing in the poem more than the facts.

• Poetry Reading:

  • “Tina Green” from American Sublime, a powerful reflection on race, childhood, and belonging. [18:33–20:43]

• Universal and Personal Connectivity

  • "Art that speaks to any of us always comes from a very particular place, and then we find ourselves in it in some kind of way." [20:58]

• Artistic Path & Mentorship

  • Transition from journalism to poetry, guided by mother and poet Derek Walcott.
    • On showing Walcott her diary:
      • "He said, see, you're writing poems, but you don't know how to break lines. But that's what makes it a poem." [24:34–25:35]
  • The shape of poems and how each poem “finds itself.”

• Poetry Reading:

  • “Boston” from The Venus Hottentot, on alienation, identity, and survival in a new city. [26:48–29:06]
    • Memorable image: "Are you my mother? No. I sat alone in countless Chinese restaurants, eating almond cookies, sipping tea with spoons and spoons of sugar..."

3. Sarah Kay: The Transformative Power and Community of Spoken Word

Segment start: [32:02]

• On Originality & Inspiration

  • Opens with the poem “A Bird Made of Birds”:
    • "The universe has already written the poem you were planning on writing... Sometimes the poem is so bright your silly language will not stick to it. Sometimes the poem is so true nobody will believe you. ... It may not be first or ever best, but it is the only way to be sure I lived it all." [32:15–34:01]
  • On originality: "Maybe it's not my job to invent something new ... Maybe it just means that it's my turn to hold something to the light for a moment." [35:29]

• Early Encounters with Poetry & Belonging

  • Slam Poetry documentary awakens her sense of “secret loves”—poetry and theater. [37:27]
  • Lack of visible role models made performing feel impossible.

• First Slam & Healing After 9/11

  • The poetry slam became a space for healing after experiencing 9/11 as a teen in NYC:
    • "It was the first time ... that I felt like a room full of people were listening to me and saw me. ... In some ways it felt like the whole room was communicating. There is room for you here, and I don't think I've ever forgotten that." [40:40]

• On Impact and Encouragement

  • First time being told by a peer in the audience, “Hey. I really felt that.” [42:00]

• Dealing with Modern Trauma Through Poetry

  • Reads “The Places We Are Not,” a response to terrorism and violence.
    • "Not yours. This time is a song that plays so often I cannot help but know the words. Are you okay? Is the hook. Are you okay? Is code for we are not okay, but please remind me you are breathing." [43:06–45:51]

4. Amber Tamblyn: Performing, Writing, and Reclaiming Identity

Segment start: [45:51]

• Navigating Dual Careers

  • Reflects on acting career and the emotional complexity of growing up in the industry.
  • Acknowledges dual legacy—pride for her work, but also “exorcising” pain and moving toward poetry.

• Audition Story: Boldness and Authenticity

  • On auditioning for "Two and a Half Men":
    • “I think I also told Chuck Lorre to go fuck himself.” [48:31]
    • Signed in as “Jennifer Lawrence” just to mess with people.

• Poetry as Sanctuary & Control

  • Poetry as a "third parent" and the only artistic space where she felt full control. [50:14]
  • “As an actress, you are creating something that's only really half yours, if that... at least if I failed by it, I was failing by 100% of my own self expression.” [51:47, 54:16]

• Struggles with Credibility

  • Celebrity made it harder to be taken seriously as a poet; describes experiencing self-doubt, but support from editors like Roxane Gay helped. [54:17]

• Existential Crisis & Reinvention

  • On writing Dark Sparkler:
    • "There was an entire part of myself that was dying ... that was not being given an opportunity to thrive and to become more. And that book was a direct ... moment for me to ... let those things be talked about on a page and to be able to see them and see my own experiences." [56:27]

• Poetry Reading:

  • “Brittany Murphy” – an unflinching portrait of celebrity, mortality, and the public gaze. [58:13–59:22]
    • "Her mouth dribbles over onto the bathroom floor. Pollock blood. ... They say good things about the body. How bold her eyes were were bigger than Hepburn's the way she could turn into her camera close up like life depended on her."

Notable Quotes & Moments

• Eileen Myles:
  • "In the DNA of everything you write, is everything else you're ever gonna write." [12:11]
• Elizabeth Alexander:
  • "Sometimes I almost remember it like I wrote it, rather than as it happened." [18:40]
  • "Art that speaks to any of us always comes from a very particular place, and then we find ourselves in it in some kind of way." [20:58]
• Sarah Kay:
  • "The universe has already written the poem you were planning on writing." [32:15]
  • "There is room for you here, and I don't think I've ever forgotten that." [41:40]
• Amber Tamblyn:
  • "Poetry was a third parent. Poetry was a guardian. ... They very much informed each other. And one was like a salve to the other in a certain way." [50:14]
  • On her acting bravado: "I think I also told Chuck Lorre to go fuck himself." [48:31]

Timestamps for Key Segments

• Eileen Myles on the poet’s life and identity: [04:38–14:56]
• Elizabeth Alexander on memory, craft, and becoming a poet: [15:30–29:06]
• Sarah Kay on originality, slam poetry, and healing through words: [32:02–45:51]
• Amber Tamblyn on acting, poetry, and reclaiming selfhood: [45:51–59:22]

Episode Tone

Deeply reflective, candid, and often humorous, this episode celebrates 20 years of Design Matters and the poets—each candid about their vulnerabilities, driven by a desire to connect with truth, community, and artistic integrity. Debbie Millman brings out each guest's unique voice, making space for revelations about the messy, beautiful, and sometimes painful process of designing a creative life.

For Further Listening:
Full interviews and more conversations with creatives at designmattersmedia.com.