Podcast Summary: Design Matters with Debbie Millman – "Best of Design Matters: David Kwong"

Episode Overview In this standout episode of Design Matters with Debbie Millman, host Debbie engages in a captivating conversation with David Kwong, a multifaceted magician, puzzle creator, TV producer, and acclaimed author. Released on May 12, 2025, this episode delves deep into David's unique blend of magic and puzzles, his intellectual upbringing, career trajectory, and his philosophical insights into the art of illusion.

1. Introduction to David Kwong

The episode opens with Debbie introducing David Kwong as a "puzzling" yet "magical" personality whose stage shows are both enigmatic and mesmerizing. David's diverse talents span magic, puzzle creation, television production, and authorship, making him a fascinating guest for the show.

2. Early Inspirations and First Encounter with Magic

David recounts a pivotal childhood moment that ignited his passion for magic. At seven years old, during a pumpkin-picking trip with his father, David witnessed a magical performance by Bob Bauman.

David Kwong [06:10]: "This trick is still considered one of the greatest sleight of hand tricks of all time...my mind was blown."

He describes how witnessing the same magician perform the trick on both him and his father—an academic biochemist—solidified his desire to become a magician, demonstrating the profound impact of that first magical experience.

3. Intellectual Upbringing and Early Interests

Growing up in Brighton, Upstate New York, David was raised by two university professors who fostered an environment of intellectual rigor.

David Kwong [05:27]: "Doing your homework was the number one rule. And you could say that they weren't exactly thrilled when I decided to become a magician."

His childhood was marked by a love for puzzles and word games, which he often shared with his mother, a history professor. This intellectual backdrop laid the foundation for his future endeavors in magic and puzzle creation.

4. Developing a Passion for Puzzles and Magic

David's fascination with puzzles was further nurtured by influential figures like Will Shortz, the renowned crossword puzzle editor. A memorable moment occurred when David solved an anagram challenge posed by Shortz, which he describes as the "proudest moment of [his] childhood."

David Kwong [12:27]: "It absolutely was. And to get to meet him and for him to recognize that burgeoning talent was really an important milestone."

This early success propelled David into a lifelong engagement with puzzles, culminating in collaborative projects like building crosswords on-the-fly during his magic performances.

5. Academic Pursuits and Cultural History of Magic

David attended Harvard University, where he pursued a concentration in intellectual history. His academic journey took a unique turn as he delved into the cultural history of American vaudeville, theater, and the golden age of magic.

David Kwong [17:40]: "Ching Ling Fu came over in the late 19th century to the US and he was performing at the World's Fairs...a fascinating period."

His honors thesis explored the implications of Asian impersonation in magic shows, reflecting his deep interest in the intersection of race, culture, and performance.

6. Navigating Identity and Race

Being both white and Asian, David discusses the challenges and nuances of his identity, particularly in elite academic and social settings.

David Kwong [22:19]: "I suppose I am very competitive...it's still not easy."

His exploration of racial identity informs his work, especially in understanding cultural appropriation within the magic community.

7. Career Path: From Media to Magic

Initially contemplating law school, David chose to enter the media industry, working at prestigious companies like HBO and DreamWorks Animation. However, his enduring passion for magic led him to transition into full-time magic performance.

A defining moment occurred during his 30th birthday party at the Magic Castle, where his innovative "crossword puzzle trick" received overwhelming applause, signaling his readiness to merge his puzzle expertise with magic.

8. Signature Performances and Professional Milestones

David's signature trick, the "crossword puzzle trick," became a cornerstone of his performances. This trick seamlessly integrates his love for puzzles with magical illusion, captivating audiences with its cerebral complexity.

David Kwong [27:00]: "People remember that signed dollar bill to that impossible location. That's what we call that type of trick, to an impossible location."

His role as the head magic consultant for the movie You’re Now You See Me further cemented his reputation in the magic and entertainment industries.

9. Philosophy on Magic: Pulling Back the Curtain

David distinguishes his approach to magic by emphasizing transparency and the intellectual challenge it presents.

David Kwong [42:14]: "Magic is the unexplainable. And magicians, perhaps, unfortunately, are the great skeptics."

He advocates for magic as a form of cerebral entertainment, focusing on the principles of illusion and the psychological aspects of deception without claiming supernatural abilities.

10. Exploring Magic Techniques and Terminology

Throughout the conversation, David elucidates various magic techniques and terms, offering listeners a deeper understanding of the art form:

• Forcing vs. Free Choice: Creating the illusion of choice while directing the outcome.

  David Kwong [55:31]: "Forcing is when you make someone choose something...they believe in that moment that they have free choice."

• Equivoke: A specific technique for guiding choices.

  David Kwong [56:14]: "Equivoke works by pivoting the trick based on the audience's choices while controlling the narrative."

• One Ahead: Maintaining a step ahead in the performance to manage tricks seamlessly.

  David Kwong [57:08]: "One ahead is the idea that there's a ball underneath the cup already that you don't know about."

• Outs and Stooges: Backup plans and audience plants to ensure smooth performances.

11. Authorship and Literary Contributions

David discusses his books, highlighting how they bridge the gap between magic and puzzles for audiences of all ages:

• "Seven Principles of Illusion" (2016): An adult-oriented exploration of magic techniques and psychological principles.

• "How to Fool Your Parents: 25 Brain Breaking Magic Tricks": A more accessible book aimed at younger audiences and beginners, encouraging creativity and cleverness.

David Kwong [52:17]: "When I realize that there were lists and lists and lists of obscure words...I decided, you know, I mailed away a membership application to the National Scrabble association."

12. The Impact of Digital Platforms on Magic

Addressing the rise of magic exposure on platforms like TikTok and Instagram, David reflects on the balance between accessibility and preserving the mystique of live performances.

David Kwong [53:20]: "We are in a very complicated time right now...if you go to a live magic show, you're not really gonna be armed to decipher what's going on on stage."

13. The Intersection of Magic and Ethics

David delves into the ethical boundaries between magic and deception, drawing parallels with con artists and spiritualists.

David Kwong [47:15]: "They are using your assumptions against you...magicians are the great skeptics."

He emphasizes the importance of maintaining trust and entertainment value without crossing into manipulative territory.

14. The Rise of Word Games and Puzzles

The conversation shifts to the growing popularity of word games like Wordle and David's personal favorites, highlighting their universal appeal.

David Kwong [65:35]: "It's called Quintumble...there are basically four dials of letters that you're turning to make five words."

15. Conclusion and Final Thoughts

Debbie wraps up the episode by highlighting the depth and breadth of David's contributions to magic and puzzles, encouraging listeners to explore his work further.

David Kwong [66:05]: "It's all about creating wonder."

He invites listeners to visit his website and engage with his latest projects, leaving a lasting impression of his dedication to intellectual entertainment.

Key Takeaways:

• Integration of Interests: David Kwong exemplifies how two distinct passions—magic and puzzles—can merge to create a unique and engaging art form.
• Intellectual Foundation: His upbringing and academic background heavily influence his approach to magic, emphasizing intellectual rigor and cultural awareness.
• Ethical Magic: David maintains a clear boundary between entertainment and deception, advocating for ethical practices within the magic community.
• Inclusivity in Magic: Through his work, David promotes the idea that magic and puzzles can be accessible and enjoyable for audiences of all ages and backgrounds.

Notable Quotes:

• David Kwong [06:10]: "This trick is still considered one of the greatest sleight of hand tricks of all time...my mind was blown."
• David Kwong [12:27]: "It absolutely was. And to get to meet him and for him to recognize that burgeoning talent was really an important milestone."
• David Kwong [42:14]: "Magic is the unexplainable. And magicians, perhaps, unfortunately, are the great skeptics."
• David Kwong [55:31]: "Forcing is when you make someone choose something...they believe in that moment that they have free choice."
• David Kwong [53:20]: "We are in a very complicated time right now...if you go to a live magic show, you're not really gonna be armed to decipher what's going on on stage."

Discover More To explore David Kwong's magical world, visit davidkwongmagic.com and subscribe to his newsletter, Enigmatic, for exclusive content and original crosswords.

Produced by Curtis Fox Productions for the TED Audio Collective. Special thanks to Emily Weiland, Editor-in-Chief of Design Matters Media.