Design Matters with Debbie Millman: Josh Brolin Episode Summary

Released on November 25, 2024

Introduction

In this compelling episode of Design Matters, host Debbie Millman engages in an in-depth conversation with acclaimed actor Josh Brolin. Drawing from his recently released memoir, From Under the Truck, Brolin delves into his tumultuous upbringing, personal battles, and the profound journey that has shaped both his life and career. The discussion offers listeners an intimate glimpse into the complexities of Brolin’s experiences, his artistic endeavors, and his philosophical outlook on life.

Early Life and Upbringing

Josh Brolin begins by recollecting his unconventional childhood on a 230-acre ranch in California, predominantly raised by his mercurial mother. He vividly describes his mother’s formidable presence:

“She was armored with a character so unique and memorable that to die would be an insult to her mythology. She was the zap in every electrical current we had felt.” [10:31]

Brolin emphasizes the chaotic environment he grew up in, characterized by a blend of country Western culture, punk rock influences, and a pervasive sense of self-destruction. This backdrop set the stage for his later struggles and resilience.

Personal Struggles and Sobriety

Brolin openly discusses his battles with substance abuse, acknowledging the role of alcohol and other substances in coping with his tumultuous life. He reflects on his journey to sobriety at age 29, two years after his mother’s death, highlighting the complexities of overcoming addiction:

“I just think I was a guy in their minds that should have hit and didn't. So I was like, you know, I was rotting fruit.” [02:23]

He elaborates on how alcohol initially provided him with a false sense of confidence but ultimately led to destructive patterns. His path to sobriety was marked by personal interventions and a shifting relationship with fear and self-perception.

Writing and Journals

Josh reveals his lifelong relationship with writing, tracing it back to his father’s encouragement to express himself through journals. He possesses approximately 90 journals, each serving as a sanctuary for his honest expressions and emotional releases:

“I found myself was in journals.” [06:58]

Brolin describes writing as a place of solace and liberation, allowing him to navigate and articulate emotions he couldn’t share openly. This habit played a significant role in his memoir, where he blends unconventional nonfiction with elements that border on fiction.

Acting Career: Breakthrough and Key Roles

Brolin discusses his early acting career, including his breakout role as a star in the 1985 Steven Spielberg film The Goonies at just 17 years old. Preparing for this role, he immersed himself in Stanislavski’s methods and sought deeper emotional connections within his characters:

“I was reading Stanislavski. I was reading Grous, Reading, you know, Anton in Artaud... I just wanted to be better.” [21:39]

Despite his initial success, Brolin faced challenges in securing subsequent roles, attributing this to being typecast and perceived as a “C minus actor” lacking nuance. This period led him to explore other interests, such as landscape artistry and day trading, to supplement his income.

Work with the Coen Brothers and No Country for Old Men

One of Brolin’s most notable collaborations is with the Coen Brothers in No Country for Old Men. He shares insights into his friendship with writer Cormac McCarthy and the profound lessons he gleaned from their interactions:

“There is the work. Then there are those who respond to the work. That's it. You're a genius. And you're a disaster of an artist. Are close cousins.” [34:46]

Brolin reflects on McCarthy’s dedication to his craft, emphasizing the importance of consistent work and the silent, daily process of creation. This collaboration deepened Brolin’s appreciation for literary influences and reinforced his commitment to his acting artistry.

Philosophies on Fear and Personal Growth

A recurring theme in Brolin’s narrative is his evolving relationship with fear and personal growth. He discusses how fear once served as a survival mechanism but has now become a tool for self-improvement:

“I love my relationship with fear now. I love it. I love my relationship with challenge.” [52:06]

Brolin underscores the significance of embracing challenges and fears as integral parts of personal development, moving away from destructive coping mechanisms toward constructive growth.

Relationship with Literature and Writers

Josh highlights his deep admiration for writers, particularly Russian literature, which profoundly influenced his worldview and artistic expression. He credits authors like Dostoevsky and Tolstoy for shaping his understanding of human complexity and existential themes:

“There was always a sense of humor in it... I identified with it.” [38:12]

This literary passion not only fueled his personal growth but also inspired his creative processes in acting and writing, demonstrating the interconnectivity between different forms of art in his life.

Experience with Avengers and Role as Thanos

Brolin delves into his portrayal of the formidable villain Thanos in the Avengers franchise. He shares his approach to embodying such a multifaceted character, focusing on the humanity within the antagonist:

“The humanity in him. It's the same thing that I did with Dan White.” [41:36]

Brolin emphasizes the importance of understanding a character’s motivations and internal conflicts, which allows for a more authentic and relatable performance. His dedication to capturing Thanos’s complexity contributed to the character’s widespread acclaim and the success of the films.

Recent Projects and Poetry

Beyond acting, Josh discusses his foray into poetry, particularly during the filming of the Dune franchise. Collaborating with photographer Greg Frazier, Brolin authored verses that accompanied visual narratives, culminating in the bestselling book Exposures:

“It's celebrating something that we have already accomplished and praised and all that.” [47:13]

He reflects on the intimate and vulnerable nature of poetry, contrasting it with the structured demands of acting, and acknowledges the therapeutic aspects of creative expression.

Conclusion and Final Thoughts

In wrapping up the conversation, Brolin offers advice to those struggling with fear and self-imposed limitations:

“Don't believe the lie that fear is helping you survive.” [52:06]

He advocates for embracing fear as a catalyst for growth and encourages individuals to confront and overcome the barriers that hold them back. This final insight encapsulates the essence of Brolin’s transformative journey, both personally and professionally.

Notable Quotes with Timestamps

• “What makes people tick. I am forever fascinated and thrown by what makes people do what they do and also amazed.” — Josh Brolin [40:26]
• “I don't think I'm broken. I think I'm cracked.” — Josh Brolin [44:15]
• “It's all a big question.” — Josh Brolin [39:39]
• “It was my relationship with fear now. I love it.” — Josh Brolin [52:06]

Key Takeaways

• Resilience Through Adversity: Brolin’s life is a testament to overcoming immense personal challenges, including a chaotic upbringing and battles with addiction.

• Artistic Integrity: His commitment to authenticity in acting stems from a deep-seated desire to explore and express complex human emotions and motivations.

• Literary Influence: A profound appreciation for literature fuels his creative processes, highlighting the symbiotic relationship between reading and performing.

• Embracing Fear: Brolin advocates for a transformative relationship with fear, viewing it as a tool for personal and artistic growth rather than a hindrance.

• Creative Diversification: Engaging in diverse creative outlets, such as poetry and trading, showcases Brolin’s multifaceted talents and adaptability beyond acting.

Conclusion

Josh Brolin’s episode on Design Matters offers a raw and unfiltered look into the life of a celebrated actor who has navigated the tumultuous waters of fame, personal loss, and self-discovery. Through his candid storytelling and introspective insights, Brolin provides valuable lessons on resilience, the power of self-expression, and the continuous journey of personal growth. This episode is a must-listen for anyone interested in the intersection of art, psychology, and the human spirit.