Podcast Summary: Design Matters with Debbie Millman
Episode: Ruth Ann Harnish
Date: February 2, 2026
Host: Debbie Millman
Guest: Ruth Ann Harnish
Event: CreativeMornings, NYC, December 5, 2025
Episode Overview
This live episode features an in-depth conversation between host Debbie Millman and Ruth Ann Harnish—investor, activist, philanthropist, and former broadcast journalist. The discussion traces Ruth Ann’s groundbreaking career in journalism, her experiences breaking gender barriers, her emergence as a prominent philanthropist, and her profound insights on money, self-worth, and living abundantly. The tone is candid and often humorous, with Ruth Ann’s sharp wit and reflective spirit shining throughout.
Key Discussion Points and Insights
1. Early Life & Formative Media Experiences
-
Buffalo Roots & Teenage Ambition (03:24–06:59)
- At 15, Ruth Ann worked as a DJ under the pseudonym Karen Kelly at WYSL FM in Buffalo, chosen for its ethnic popularity:
"I chose that one because ethnically it was popular in Buffalo. There were a lot of Irish people and it felt original and fun..." (04:31)
- Simultaneously, Ruth Ann worked for the Buffalo Courier Express, not as a paper girl (a role girls weren’t allowed to have) but billing the paper boys:
"We were hired to bill the Root boys that we could not be. We would send them their bills every week..." (05:45)
- At 15, Ruth Ann worked as a DJ under the pseudonym Karen Kelly at WYSL FM in Buffalo, chosen for its ethnic popularity:
-
Navigating Gender Inequity from a Young Age (07:17–07:57)
- She described herself as a “stubborn, angry girl,” acutely aware of gender-based unfairness:
"I knew that the minute I saw my younger brother allowed to do things I was not allowed to do..." (07:37)
- She described herself as a “stubborn, angry girl,” acutely aware of gender-based unfairness:
-
Influence of Strict Mentors & Elocution Training (09:02–10:57)
- Selected by assistant principal Dorothy Wolf for special coaching in French, performance, and speaking skills.
- Ruth Ann credits this early voice training for future success:
"Every bit of success I have can be traced to my ability to use my voice." (10:04)
- Mrs. Wolf’s strictness:
"She was mean... She was incredibly strict. Her standards were incredibly high, and you were going to meet them." (10:44)
2. Barriers, Breakthroughs, and Early Journalism
-
Rebellious Pursuits & Social Context (13:13–14:29)
- From hiding her radio under her pillow to track magical airwaves to fighting for roles traditionally denied to women, Harnish describes being “often the first through the barrier”:
"And whoever goes through first gets hurt the most... And makes it easier for everybody who comes after." (14:16)
- From hiding her radio under her pillow to track magical airwaves to fighting for roles traditionally denied to women, Harnish describes being “often the first through the barrier”:
-
Breaking into Broadcasting—Often by Deception and Grit (15:11–16:49)
- Lied to her mother to attend a sleepover, interviewed drunk for a job as a teen correspondent—demonstrating both her daring and talent:
"I aced my interview on the phone drunk. And I always felt that qualified me for a career in broadcasting." (15:33)
- Lied to her mother to attend a sleepover, interviewed drunk for a job as a teen correspondent—demonstrating both her daring and talent:
3. Career Progression and Facing Sexism in Newsrooms
-
From Secretary to Producer, Despite Reluctance to Pay (17:00–17:31)
- Volunteered as a TV producer in Atlanta, unpaid; later moved to Nashville for a paid on-air role.
-
Affirmative Action, Tokenism, and Sexism (17:56–19:45)
- Gained her first TV position as an on-air consumer reporter due to affirmative action and reflects critically on tokenism:
"They had to hire somebody to represent the female portion... only going to be one... It would have been better if I was black, but they already had their black man. So Bill Perkins was already there... And I was hired to hold down the we have a woman spot." (18:04)
- Colleagues called her Sue Ann Nivens (a TV homemaker character):
"They called me Sue Ann Nivens, the Happy Homemaker." (18:35)
- Gained her first TV position as an on-air consumer reporter due to affirmative action and reflects critically on tokenism:
-
Early Money Focus: Dollars and Cents (19:21–20:23)
- Hosted a show teaching home economics—already thinking deeply about financial empowerment and transparency.
-
Enduring Barriers and Systemic Inequity (20:23–22:59)
- Experienced multiple forms of discrimination—colleagues referred to women as “two birds with one stone” hires, and Oprah Winfrey’s unique name origin is discussed.
- Wages so low she qualified for food stamps, but management only gave her a raise to “$1 over the threshold”:
"He gave you a raise that put you $1, $1 over the threshold for public assistance." (21:29)
-
#MeToo Before Its Time (22:29–23:14)
- Ruth Ann recalls being chased around a sofa by a boss as a form of sexual harassment—a cliche because it was so common:
"Literally chased me around the sofa to try and tackle me... It's a cliche because it was so true." (23:05)
- Ruth Ann recalls being chased around a sofa by a boss as a form of sexual harassment—a cliche because it was so common:
4. Juggling Multiple Roles Amid Media Instability
-
Survival via Relentless Work (23:14–24:20)
- Maintained multiple jobs due to industry instability:
"So when somebody offered me a new job, I just didn't quit the other one." (23:30)
- Maintained multiple jobs due to industry instability:
-
Professional Accomplishments and Awards (24:20–24:51)
- First Emmy nomination at WTVF Nashville; broke many glass ceilings as anchor and show host.
5. The Shift to Philanthropy
-
Turning Point: Unexpected Transition (27:27–28:25)
- After losing her job, Ruth Ann is encouraged by a colleague to become a philanthropist:
"One of the other people at the dinner... said, well, now of course you will become a philanthropist." (28:14)
- After losing her job, Ruth Ann is encouraged by a colleague to become a philanthropist:
-
Embracing Giving as an Activist Calling (28:57–29:54)
- Motivated by the clarity of purpose that accompanies truth:
"When it resonates, it resonates. When it's true, it's true. It doesn't take me forever to recognize when something is true for me." (29:07)
- Motivated by the clarity of purpose that accompanies truth:
-
Philosophy of Abundance and Stewardship (30:27–30:59)
- Money as energy—being a philanthropist amplifies who you already are:
"More money or less money makes you more or less of who you are at core. You don't become a different person. You become more of who you are when you have abundance." (30:43)
- Money as energy—being a philanthropist amplifies who you already are:
6. The Evolution and Impact of the Harnish Foundation
-
Founding and Focus (29:16–32:38)
- The Harnish Foundation invests in breaking barriers and supporting creative, sustainable initiatives (TED Fellows, Center for Sustainable Journalism, Awesome Without Borders, etc.).
-
Strategic Approaches to Giving (32:40–34:52)
- Outlines four categories of giving, aiming for the fourth: systemic, upstream change:
"Go upstream and find what are the sources of the suffering that you are alleviating... that's what I'm aiming at at this stage of my life." (33:40)
- Outlines four categories of giving, aiming for the fourth: systemic, upstream change:
-
Impactful Programs: Funny Girls and Beyond (35:09–36:41)
- Funny Girls—leadership curriculum using improv for girls and non-binary youth, now partnered with Second City:
"We teach leadership skills to young girls... through improv training and learn to think on their feet..." (35:26)
- Partnership with long-term executive director Jenny Raymond celebrated.
- Funny Girls—leadership curriculum using improv for girls and non-binary youth, now partnered with Second City:
7. Deep Reflections on Money and Security
-
From Scarcity to Abundance—Changing the Inner Narrative (36:42–41:05)
- Ruth Ann’s lifelong anxiety about money only dissipated after achieving abundance, leading to the realization:
"There is no day when it's all wrapped up and you're fine. There is just, how am I right now? ... There is no security, there's just who are you in here?" (37:18)
- Self-reliance is built by "making a regret free decision to change and sticking with that." (38:45)
- Money is a societal construct:
"...we made up the idea of money... It became easier to explain when money got made up right in front of everybody's face and they called it crypto." (39:45)
- Ruth Ann’s lifelong anxiety about money only dissipated after achieving abundance, leading to the realization:
-
Belief, Value, and the Power of Narrative (41:27–42:18)
- Debbie and Ruth Ann discuss how the belief in money is all that's required for it to be meaningful—illustrated by the act of pledging funds creating emotional impact before money even changes hands:
"See, the power of just the belief system, just believing it's possible, opens up your imagination to create all kinds of new possibilities." (42:18)
- Debbie and Ruth Ann discuss how the belief in money is all that's required for it to be meaningful—illustrated by the act of pledging funds creating emotional impact before money even changes hands:
-
Security in Community, Not Cash (44:26–44:42)
- Ruth Ann challenges the notion of financial security as something banks provide—security comes from the community around you:
"Where is your wealth?... You will never be without because you are surrounded by the life you have built... You cannot sink in this life." (44:26)
- Ruth Ann challenges the notion of financial security as something banks provide—security comes from the community around you:
-
Crossing from Feminism to Egalitarianism (45:40)
- Harnish now frames her advocacy beyond feminism, focusing on universal abundance and dignity:
"I don't even like to be in the feminist space anymore. I'm in the egalitarian space. I want all people... to live lives of abundance and dignity." (45:40)
- Harnish now frames her advocacy beyond feminism, focusing on universal abundance and dignity:
8. Advice for Listeners and Closing Reflections
-
Advice for the Money-Anxious (46:12–46:42)
- Ruth Ann urges reframing one’s money story:
"Just recognize if you're scared by the concept of money, you're buying into a story that is not necessarily true for you. See if you can come up with a better version of that story for yourself. I believe you can do it." (46:24)
- Ruth Ann urges reframing one’s money story:
-
Mansa Musa and Acknowledging Global Wealth (47:46–48:55)
- Shares newfound knowledge about Mansa Musa, the richest person in history, as a nod to global perspectives and curiosity:
"Mansa Musa... had so much wealth of every kind... without question the richest person in history right up till modern times. And I never heard of that until yesterday." (48:09)
- Shares newfound knowledge about Mansa Musa, the richest person in history, as a nod to global perspectives and curiosity:
Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments
-
On being the first through the barrier:
"And whoever goes through first gets hurt the most... And makes it easier for everybody who comes after."
— Ruth Ann Harnish (14:16) -
On formative voice training:
"Every bit of success I have can be traced to my ability to use my voice."
— Debbie Millman quoting Ruth Ann Harnish (10:04) -
On being paid less than a living wage:
"He gave you a raise that put you $1, $1 over the threshold for public assistance."
— Debbie Millman (21:29) -
On the construct of money:
"It's been made up by the people who needed a way to exchange value."
— Ruth Ann Harnish (40:56) -
On the freedom (and challenge) of abundance:
"More money or less money makes you more or less of who you are at core. You don't become a different person. You become more of who you are when you have abundance."
— Ruth Ann Harnish (30:43) -
On security and self-worth:
"There is no day when it's all wrapped up and you're fine. There is just, how am I right now?"
— Ruth Ann Harnish (37:18)
Timestamps for Key Segments
- Early Media Career, Buffalo & Karen Kelly: 03:24–07:12
- Gender Inequality, Family, and Voice Training: 07:16–11:28
- Breaking into Broadcast Journalism & First Radio Job: 15:11–16:49
- First TV Producer Role & Tokenism: 17:31–20:23
- Sexism, Pay Inequity, and Office Harassment: 22:29–24:20
- Philanthropy Turn & Founding Harnish Foundation: 27:27–32:38
- Giving Philosophy & Types of Grants: 32:40–34:52
- Funny Girls & Youth Leadership: 35:09–36:41
- Insights on Money, Security & Self-Worth: 36:42–44:26
- Advice for Listeners about Money and Abundance: 46:12–46:42
- Mansa Musa and Mali Shout-out: 47:46–48:55
Guest’s Closing Wisdom
-
On rewriting your money story:
"See if you can come up with a better version of that story for yourself. I believe you can do it." (46:24)
-
On spreading impact:
"We can talk about making a difference. We could make a difference." (49:04)
This episode is a compelling exploration of breaking barriers, activating generosity, and choosing abundance—not just in wealth, but in self-trust and contribution to others. Ruth Ann Harnish’s life exemplifies courage, wisdom, and the power of designing one’s life—and legacy—on one’s own terms.