Celebrating Pride with The Valley's Zack Wickham

Summary

Detox Retox with Tom Schwartz: Celebrating Pride with The Valley's Zack Wickham

Release Date: June 3, 2025

In this vibrant episode of Detox Retox with Tom Schwartz, host Tom Schwartz welcomes special guest Zack Wickham from "The Valley" to celebrate Pride Month. The conversation delves deep into the significance of Pride, the evolution of the LGBTQIA+ community, and the ongoing challenges faced despite the progress made over the decades. Through personal anecdotes, historical insights, and engaging dialogues, Schwartz and Wickham emphasize the importance of visibility, safe spaces, and allyship in fostering a supportive and inclusive environment.

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1. Introduction to Pride Month and LGBTQIA+ Acronym

Tom Schwartz sets the stage by introducing the episode's focus on Pride Month. He provides a refresher on the LGBTQIA+ acronym, highlighting its evolving nature and the diverse identities it encompasses.

Zack Wickham [01:28]: "If you are not personally free to be yourself in that most important of all human activities, the expression of love, then life itself loses its meaning."

Zack emphasizes the fundamental right to self-expression and love, underscoring the essence of Pride.

2. The Necessity of Pride in 2025

Schwartz addresses a common question: "Is gay pride still really necessary in 2025?" He acknowledges that while many support the LGBTQIA+ community and advocate for equality, Pride remains crucial as a platform for visibility and celebration of progress.

Tom Schwartz [02:10]: "But at least once or twice, maybe even in the privacy of their own brains, they've wondered, why do we need gay pride in this day and age?"

The discussion highlights that Pride is not just a celebration but a reminder of the struggles and resilience of the community.

3. Historical Context: From Stonewall to Modern Day

Delving into history, Schwartz and Wickham recount pivotal moments like the Stonewall riots and the legacy of icons like Harvey Milk. They reflect on the advancements made since 1969 and the ongoing efforts to combat discrimination.

Tom Schwartz [03:10]: "The Stonewall riots marked a new beginning for the gay rights movement in the United States and around the world. Sparked a revolution."

This segment serves as a powerful reminder of the community's enduring fight for rights and recognition.

4. The Role of Gay Bars and Safe Spaces

A significant portion of the conversation centers on the importance of gay bars as sanctuaries and hubs of community life. Schwartz reminisces about favorite spots in West Hollywood, illustrating how these establishments have historically provided safe spaces for LGBTQIA+ individuals to express themselves freely.

Zack Wickham [07:45]: "They were places where you could come hook up, feel safe to just be yourself, heal."

The hosts stress that while societal acceptance has grown, these safe havens remain essential for personal and collective healing.

5. Current Challenges and Legislative Threats

Despite progress, Schwartz and Wickham discuss the resurgence of anti-LGBTQIA+ legislation and societal backlash. They express concern over the politicization of LGBTQIA+ rights and the threats posed by reactionary forces.

Zack Wickham [16:22]: "Some of the headlines I've been seeing lately, some of the legislation that's being proposed is scary."

This segment underscores the fragility of rights gains and the necessity for continued advocacy.

6. Personal Experiences and Stories

The episode is punctuated with heartfelt personal stories from Schwartz, Wickham, and guest Mason. They share their journeys of coming out, the support they received, and the challenges they've faced, painting a vivid picture of the individual struggles within the broader movement.

Mason [25:01]: "I knew I liked boys right off the bat."

These narratives humanize the discussion, making the issues relatable and impactful for listeners.

7. The Importance of Allyship

A recurring theme is the role of allies in supporting the LGBTQIA+ community. Schwartz and Wickham emphasize that allyship goes beyond passive support; it involves active participation and advocacy.

Zack Wickham [22:32]: "Be an ally, not a bad guy."

They discuss practical ways allies can contribute, reinforcing the idea that collective effort is vital for sustained progress.

8. Celebrating Community and Upcoming Events

As the episode nears its end, Schwartz and Wickham share exciting news about an upcoming co-hosted pool party at the Pendry in San Diego, inviting listeners to join in the celebration of Pride.

Zack Wickham [54:20]: "Me and Zach are co-hosting a pool party at the Pendry San Diego. It's going down on June 8th."

This invitation serves as a call to action for community engagement and solidarity.

9. Concluding Messages of Hope and Resilience

Wrapping up, the hosts and additional voices like Jasmine, Kyle Chen, and even an homage to Harvey Milk deliver messages of love, resilience, and the undying spirit of the LGBTQIA+ community.

Harvey Milk [59:32]: "Pride is more important than ever this year because the current administration is really coming after us..."

These heartfelt messages encapsulate the episode's core—celebrating progress while acknowledging the battles that lie ahead.

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Notable Quotes with Timestamps

• Zack Wickham [01:28]: "If you are not personally free to be yourself in that most important of all human activities, the expression of love, then life itself loses its meaning."

• Tom Schwartz [03:10]: "The Stonewall riots marked a new beginning for the gay rights movement in the United States and around the world. Sparked a revolution."

• Zack Wickham [07:45]: "They were places where you could come hook up, feel safe to just be yourself, heal."

• Zack Wickham [16:22]: "Some of the headlines I've been seeing lately, some of the legislation that's being proposed is scary."

• Mason [25:01]: "I knew I liked boys right off the bat."

• Zack Wickham [22:32]: "Be an ally, not a bad guy."

• Zack Wickham [54:20]: "Me and Zach are co-hosting a pool party at the Pendry San Diego. It's going down on June 8th."

• Harvey Milk [59:32]: "Pride is more important than ever this year because the current administration is really coming after us..."

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Conclusion

This episode of Detox Retox with Tom Schwartz serves as a compelling tribute to Pride Month, blending historical context with personal narratives to highlight the enduring significance of LGBTQIA+ rights. Through engaging discussions and heartfelt stories, Schwartz and Wickham reinforce the need for continued advocacy, safe spaces, and unwavering allyship. The episode not only celebrates the progress made but also calls listeners to action, ensuring that the spirit of Pride remains vibrant and resilient in the face of challenges.

Transcript

[Tom Schwartz]

Most people would rather attend a corporate team building workshop than search for auto and home insurance.

[Zach Wickham]

Go, team. Feel that synergy.

[Tom Schwartz]

That's why the zebra searches for you. Comparing over 100 insurance companies to find savings no one else can Compare. [e-mail] who's ready for the trust fall?

[Jasmine]

It's now time for your weekly detox with Tom Schwartz.

[Zach Wickham]

If you are not personally free to be yourself in that most important of all human activities, the expression of love, then life itself loses its meaning. Harvey Milk. Hi, guys. Welcome to another episode of Detox Retox. It's your boy, Tom Schwartz. This episode this week, we're celebrating pride. By the way, do you guys feel that we're in a love frequency? Yeah, to be specific, I think it's 639 hertz. Am I right, Mason? We're gonna do a whole episode on healing frequencies. But for now, let's just marinate in some love. Some love frequency. Because it's Pride Month. Yes, this month, we are celebrating. Okay, why are we celebrating? Well, let's get a little refresher course. In case you guys forget, what is lgbtqia? Okay. L is for lesbian, G is for gay, B is for bisexual. T is for transcender. Excuse me? Transgender. I can't say that. Q is for queer questioning. I is for intersex, A is for asexual, and plus plus represents all the other gender and sexual identities not explicitly included in the acronym. Acknowledging the ever evolving nature of these terms and the diversity within the community. This is a beautiful month, you guys. In my experience, there's a lot of people who support the community. They approve of gay marriage, they hang out with gay people, they have gay friends. They're definitely not homophobic. But at least once or twice, maybe even in the privacy of their own brains, they've wondered, why do we need gay pride in this day and age? Is gay pride still really necessary in 2025? And. And not in, like, a snarky or even mildly homophobic way. Not in like a. A, A spiteful, sneering way, at least. I don't hope so. But they're just like, why? Why do we still need it? Well, we're going to get into that, and we're also going to remind ourselves why safe spaces and gay bars matter, too. And obviously, this. This can be implied to people who are persecuted and marginalized from all walks of life for their color of their skin, sexuality, religion, why? That's why they. That's why they take pride in celebrating their progress. Okay, that's why they have national holidays. I mean, let's be honest. The president, Donald Trump, he says he loves his gays. I love my gays. But some of the recent legislation would beg to differ. It's scary out there right now, you know, spending so much time in cities like Los Angeles, New York, San Francisco, it's easy to forget the history, the trials and tribulations members of the gay community have had to overcome and endure. Have you guys seen Milk? Harvey Milk? He's an icon. He's a legend. Shit. The Stonewall riots. What were they back in the 70s? Hold on a sec. Stonewall riots back in 1969? That's, like, only 50 years ago. Okay, we're still making progress here. Okay, I'm on Wikipedia. Although the demonstrations were not the first time American LGBTQ people fought back against government sponsored persecution of sexual minorities, the Stonewall riots marked a new beginning for the gay rights movement in the United States and around the world. Sparked a revolution. Also, gay bars. Why do they matter? Why are they so important? Let's zoom into West Hollywood in particular. First of all, I love West Hollywood. That's where I first found the Pink Pony Club in West Hollywood. It didn't start out as gay. I mean, not to single them out. I remember reading about when I first got there, like, you know, certain bars, like the lovely and very progressive and. And gay friendly Barney's Beanery, used to have a sign behind the bar that said, no F words. I can't say that and I won't say that. But obviously they've come away a long way, just like the community as a whole in West Hollywood. So let's go back to the 60s and the 70s. Okay. LGBTQ +Angelenos were being pushed out of their neighborhoods by police harassment, zoning crackdowns. And they began migrating to this little unincorporated pocket of Los Angeles county where law enforcement was a little more chill and landlords a little more lenient. And pretty soon, gay bars became the beating heart, the pulse of this growing community. One of the first ones, I think, that opened was Gold coast back in 1981. It became the first openly gay watering hole in West Hollywood. It welcomed leather daddies, silver foxes, pretty much anyone looking for a cold beer and a wink. A safe place. Then Studio One. I think this was before my time too. Part nightclub, part pageant, part revolution. Yeah, I like that. Where disco reigned in unity Pulse beneath the mirrored ball. Sounds groovy. And of course, the Abbey, which I know well and love. One of my favorite spots still to this day. It Originally was a little coffee shop back in 1991, and then it sort of grew into this. This holy grail, this cathedral of cocktails. A place where, you know, you could mingle with the guy next door. Politicians and drag queens all hanging out, mingling over martinis. Still love it to this day. Motherlode, our neighbor, TomTom's neighbor, just a little bit west of us on Santa Monica Boulevard, was one of the first and longest running gay bars in West Hollywood. I think they opened in 1970, I remember correctly. But if you haven't been there, think strong, very strong, affordable drinks and fabulous dive vibes. Like one of my favorite little old school OG G bars. My personal favorite, the Bayou. Love the Bayou. Also the last remaining place on the planet. I'll take a jello shot. And it's only because they're really fun out of a syringe, by the way. Hi, Marcos. But, yeah, I've. I've. I love gay bars. I love West Hollywood. I feel home there, as I do in any watering hole. Why do they matter? Well, you guys, they weren't just, like clubs. They weren't just nightlife. They were lifelines. They were places where you could come hook up, feel safe to just be yourself, heal. Yeah. Back in the darkest days of the AIDS crisis, you know, they organized events, lifted each other up, and just supported a persecuted community. West Hollywood officially became a City in 1984. I did not know that. And it was one of the first in the country with a majority openly gay council, a direct result of the organizing powers that started these bars. So it's a very special place, very near and dear to me and so many others. It's the Pink Pony Club. I love it. We're gonna go. We're gonna celebrate pride. Before I go meet up with Zach, you guys, a little message. How about more kisses, more hugs, more love? Love wins. Maybe not every time, but in the end, at least I hope love conquers all. Be an ally, you guys. Choose love. Be a champion for those who need it. Remember what Gandhi said, Where there is love, there is life. And according to Jax, he was also the guy who can predict the future. All right, all right. Before we go meet up with Zach, let's close out with another beautiful quote from Harvey Milk. We will not win our rights by staying quietly in our closets. Zach Wickham, where are we and what are we doing?

[Mason]

We are in West Hollywood. Well, we're technically at my apartment first, but we are about to consume Smirnoff Isis.

[Zach Wickham]

All right, ready, guys?

[Mason]

That Was so satisfying to hear.

[Zach Wickham]

That was so asmr. Zach, thank you for doing this.

[Mason]

You're so welcome.

[Zach Wickham]

Cheers.

[Mason]

Cheers.

[Zach Wickham]

We're gonna explain why we're drinking these later.

[Mason]

Yeah, we're good. There will be an explanation.

[Zach Wickham]

There's a reason. This is going to be a little bit of a nostalgic trip.

[Mason]

Yeah. This is not a choice that I would normally make, by the way.

[Zach Wickham]

I felt like such a creeper sitting outside in my car with a six pack of smear Knoff. I felt like I was about to be on to catch a Predator.

[Mason]

Yeah, I. I come down to hand you the pass, and it's just the passenger seat fill filled with smear off ices and you holding your head in kind of shame with, like, sunglasses on.

[Zach Wickham]

I felt like a certified creeper.

[Mason]

Yeah, the sunglasses didn't help either, by the way.

[Zach Wickham]

Just to give some people a little context of where we are, we're in the. My favorite city in la, West Hollywood. But we're one street over for where me and Katie used to live.

[Mason]

Yeah, because you all abandoned me during the pandemic. And all were like, oh, let's just go buy houses. And then I'm stuck over here still in my apartment, being like, oh, thanks, guys.

[Zach Wickham]

Yeah, well, I miss it here, and I love it here.

[Mason]

Would you ever move into that king's apartment again?

[Zach Wickham]

You know, it's funny. I don't think I've ever told anyone this. So after we got ning Katie separated, we sold the house for a tidy profit. Mind you not to flex on you guys, but true. So I didn't know where to go. I was scrambling, floundering, whatever. And then our old building manager hit me up at. I won't say the exact address. Kings Road. Kings and Waring. And they're like, there's a unit available and guess which one it is.

[Mason]

No, it wasn't.

[Zach Wickham]

It was you. She's like, it's. You're in Katie's. I don't know if that's going to be weird because you guys just got divorced. And when we were living there, it was 2700amonth, and we split it. Guess how much it was after the pandemic.

[Mason]

Oh, it had to be like 52, 4500.

[Zach Wickham]

And I just. I like the idea of moving back into that same space. Not that I had any bad memories there. All good memories for the most part, but still, it just felt like a step in the wrong direction.

[Mason]

Well, and did they renovate it?

[Zach Wickham]

They did.

[Mason]

Oh, I did a tour of it was it nice.

[Zach Wickham]

It was nice. Yeah. They changed the kitchen and the bathroom and.

[Mason]

Well, cuz, don't get me wrong, I loved it when you all lived there, but I just remember, you know, like, you guys made it your own.

[Zach Wickham]

Exactly.

[Mason]

But then you live in a house, you don't want to come back to the apartment, you. You know what I mean? Like, it's just.

[Zach Wickham]

It just felt like a. Yeah, no.

[Mason]

Yeah, that's like kind of step backwards, a little backside.

[Zach Wickham]

Zach Wickham. This.

[Mason]

We only slide forward here.

[Zach Wickham]

Slide forward, baby. Zach, this is a Pride episode. Zach, what is it like being a gay man in 2025?

[Mason]

Let me just say it's great. Let's start with that. Let's start with that. No.

[Zach Wickham]

You're coming in hot off the second season of the Valley. In my opinion, you're a star. With or without a camera. I always knew that when I first. How long we've been friends? Nine years.

[Mason]

Nine years.

[Zach Wickham]

Ten years.

[Mason]

Nine years.

[Zach Wickham]

With or without a camera. You've always been that guy and now the whole world is getting to see it. I'm so happy that you're on a TV show now.

[Mason]

Well, I thank you for that. I do feel like I'm not any different off camera than I am on camera or anything like that. Like, it was a very natural transition.

[Zach Wickham]

It really was seamless. And you were on Vanderpump a lot and you. I feel like you were destined to be on TV in some way, shape or form.

[Mason]

Yeah. I feel like when people constantly tell you your entire life and they could have meant it in negative ways or they could have been it in positive ways, you never know. But they're like, you should, you should be on a real. You're meant for reality tv. I'm like, I don't know what you mean by that, but I. I'll take it. Thank you.

[Zach Wickham]

I was listening to a podcast and they were talking about the fact that used to be an assistant for Nicole from the Pussycat Dolls. And she was like, zach always wanted to be on tv.

[Mason]

Okay, now let's actually, I'm glad you brought that up because let's correct that a little. Let's put a little addendum on that. Number one. She always used to say, babe, you have to be on a reality.

[Zach Wickham]

I used to tell you that.

[Mason]

So yeah. And I'm like, hahaha, whatever. But. But then we were. I was auditioning or not auditioning, but like they were figuring out the Valley for the last year that I was working for her. So yeah, it got Talked about a lot, but, like, not where I was. Like, that was all I ever talked about.

[Zach Wickham]

So you're not.

[Mason]

I had plenty of other things to talk.

[Zach Wickham]

So you're not dehydrated, thirsty guy. Just salivating over the prospect of being on television. I'm kidding.

[Mason]

I'm kidding. Well, no, I think it's really funny when people say, like, oh, they're thirsty to be there. No, I'm sorry. I'm just good enough to be here.

[Zach Wickham]

Also, you're organic. You're just. You've been a staple in this group of friends for 10 years. You're one of Brittany's best friends. You guys more or less grew up together.

[Mason]

Right. I didn't.

[Zach Wickham]

You know, we're gonna zoom into that.

[Mason]

Somebody else and then, you know, whatever. Like, I knew people before I moved here. Like, Nicole, her little sister was my best friend.

[Zach Wickham]

Yeah.

[Mason]

Growing up. So even before I knew Britney. And then I met Brittany in college and. Yeah. So, like, the two people when I moved here were Nicole Scherzinger and Brittany.

[Zach Wickham]

Cartwright and Tom Schwartz and.

[Mason]

And then Tom Schwartz shortly thereafter.

[Zach Wickham]

You know what show I just watched? Have you been watching Overcompensating on Amazon?

[Mason]

Oh, it's so good.

[Zach Wickham]

It's so good.

[Mason]

Benito is. I'm so happy for him because he was. He's such a pandemic star where, like, he. I always considered those tiktokers that rose during the pandemic. Pandemic stars. And I'm so glad to see him just, like, thriving and.

[Zach Wickham]

No, he's thriving. And did you hear about how he got Charlie XCX's music in the show?

[Mason]

No. How?

[Zach Wickham]

He had a. He had a few margaritas in him, I think two to be exact. And he saw her at a party, and he's like, I'm going to picture my concept. I'm going to picture my show. And. And he went up to. And he's like, I want your music in my show. And if you've noticed, like, half of the soundtrack is Charlie xcx.

[Mason]

I have noticed.

[Zach Wickham]

Yeah. While I was watching it, I was thinking to myself, in the 15 years years I've been here, how many just uplifting, harrowing, maybe even heroic stories I've heard about my gay friends coming out. You know what I mean? Or having to keep their sexuality closeted in their hometowns or even in la, or even in la, which is, like, really, like, one of the safest places in the world to be out.

[Mason]

But not as an actor, not as an entertainer.

[Zach Wickham]

Yes.

[Mason]

You know, I think that's what it's crazy to think about, how far we've come, but how far we still have to go.

[Zach Wickham]

Yeah.

[Mason]

Like, I don't think people realize Pride this year means probably more than it's meant in a lot of years because LA Pride got defunded, that lost huge sponsors. They're not even having. Like, last year was. I think last year was Mariah and Megan good. Megan the Stallion. Megan good. Jesus. Megan the Stallion.

[Zach Wickham]

And.

[Mason]

And then the year before was Christina Aguilera. You know, they've had huge acts and now all of a sudden they're not doing like the concert series. They're maybe doing like a water down version.

[Zach Wickham]

Yeah.

[Mason]

You know, St. Louis Pride lost their biggest sponsor, which was Budweiser. They'd been sponsoring it for years and years and years. All of a sudden, just not. It is so crazy to think how far we've come. And then kind of like you and your old apartment, like, I feel like we're living in the old apartment again and we need to figure out how to get back to the house.

[Zach Wickham]

Yeah. Some of the headlines I've been seeing lately, some of the legislation that's being proposed is scary.

[Mason]

Yeah. Well, in being proposed, but also, like legit and not just being like, talked about like, oh, randomly. You know, here's this really crazy person saying, you know, they don't want drag, you know, in public or whatever, that it'll never even get talked. No, the. These are like mainstream politicians that this will go to the floor and this will get voted on. There's like so many of those where it's not just like some crazy idea. It is like becoming law or becoming, you know, the law of, like, different areas. And it's. It's kind of crazy to think that we're like, in 2025, we're now dealing with this again.

[Zach Wickham]

Yeah. I mean, for. Let's just say the less informed and be sweet. But it's easy to look at the current state of the world or where we're at and be like, why would you even some people be like, everyone's okay with the LGBT community. It's a safe place to be gay in America. But it's. It's. Not. There's still places in America where it's scary to be outwardly part of the gay community.

[Mason]

Well, yeah. I mean, even then. I remember one year walking home from Pride and this white car, this white van, was yelling the F word out of the van, and they were passing me when they did that, and I flicked them off and Then they did like a circle came back around because I was waiting for my friend at 7:11. They circle came back around, opened up the door and there was like five giant men in there. And I was like, my, my jaw dropped and I just like, was immediately like self preservation mode and like ran into the 711 because I think they were like being like, oh, come at me, bro. I'm like, no, number one. No.

[Zach Wickham]

Yeah.

[Mason]

I'm not gonna get kidnapped. Sorry. Not on Pride.

[Zach Wickham]

You know, I usually diagnose, but like that's la. Yeah, no, it's. I mean for the most part we feel very safe and we're very lucky to live where we live. You can be who you want. It's the Pink Pony Club. Right?

[Mason]

Right.

[Zach Wickham]

And that is I. That's, that's part of it.

[Mason]

Which in case anyone is wondering, the Pink Pony Club, the, the song is actually it. She's talking about the Abbey.

[Zach Wickham]

She's talking about the Abby. And I listen, I'm probably one of the least discriminated against humans possible. I'm a cis white male dude. I'm moderately good looking. I'm 61.

[Mason]

You're actually the least.

[Zach Wickham]

But still, I just always felt drawn to West Hollywood, to New York, because I loved, I, I listen, I love the gay community. I feel like half of my friends are gay. And I just feel, I feel like I can be my purest self here. You know what I mean?

[Mason]

I actually love a straight man that is comfortable in his sexuality and can be around gays. And it's not like a thing. It's like, it's kind of like my roommate, he's like the gayest straight man there is. But like the, but just like the most accepting and just like. But these are his people. You know, it's like that big a, that big ally. You got that ally card and you're representing it.

[Zach Wickham]

Be an ally, not a bad guy. You know what? I usually chalk it up to our diagnose. People who are homophobic. Well, lack of education, lack of life experience, or they're highly educated, but they're fundamentally flawed fools. Usually, I swear, 80 of the time, if they're deeply homophobic and there's like a seething rage, they're gay.

[Mason]

I was like, closet case.

[Zach Wickham]

They're closeted and they are disgusting. It's. They're disgusted with their sexual impulses and the way that they cope with it is to.

[Mason]

But you know why they have those? Because society, you know, this, it's, it all comes down to like society and that societal Constructs. And these are things that unfortunately we are so. They're so enamored into us at such a young. Are hammered into us at such a young age that we don't even realize they're there. We don't even realize these prejudice against our own self are there until we're much older. That's why, like, coming out stories are so important. And that's why it became such a big movement. Because visibility, seeing it brings it into the light and brings it. Oh, wow. It brings the humanity to it.

[Tom Schwartz]

Most people would rather assemble a 300 piece cabinet than search for insurance. That's why the zebra searches for you. Comparing over 100 insurance companies to find savings. No one else can compare today@the zebra.com.

[Zach Wickham]

You guys. That's why we need. I mean, there's so many reasons, but amongst, like, it's so important people. Sometimes people like, why do they need their own day? Which is incredibly insulting because they've been ostracized for. For most of history. You know what I mean? There's a. There was a time in America where, and even still some parts of America where it's very unsafe to be, like I said earlier, outwardly gay.

[Mason]

Oh, absolutely. Also, we're also seeing the rise again of people wanting to host these straight pride rallies or whatever. And I'm just like, you're missing the point because it has nothing to do with. Well, if one has it, the other should have it. It's like, that's not what it is. Because when you say straight pride, when you say like white pride, stuff like that, that is actually taking away. You don't have to have. Those are not things you have to have pride in because you can be it openly and it's not a problem. It's not looked down upon, it's not marginalized when it comes to being gay. The reason you're. You're celebrating it and being proud is because you're trying to amplify and make it a positive thing. Whereas, like, when you're taking something like straight pride, you're saying like, basically you're trying to come into a space where you're already the majority. Like you.

[Zach Wickham]

Exactly.

[Mason]

You don't need to be proud of that. Like, it's.

[Zach Wickham]

You got Zach. That was beautifully stated. And by the way, it could have been stated better, but no, it was nice.

[Mason]

I was also trying to dance around my words.

[Zach Wickham]

No, it's a teacher.

[Mason]

Not yet.

[Zach Wickham]

By the way, I feel like all my listeners are huge supporters of the LGBT communities. They are. But you know, Like, I imagine if. By the way, the reason we're drinking Smirnoff.

[Mason]

Oh, my God. I'm literally just took a sip of this, and I had a flashback to.

[Zach Wickham]

It's the closest thing we have to time travel. Taste, scent, music. Where does this take you? Back to. When did you. When did you have your first drink and what was it? It was Smirnoff.

[Mason]

It was Smirnoffice. My. Well, this story's been out there, so I'm not mom and dad. You already know this, but my best friends, Kayla, Colleen, and Hope, we all turned 18. It was right before Thanksgiving, like, the day before Thanksgiving of our senior year. Her parents. So we're like, oh, let's have one drink. And so her parents, like, let us have one drink. And then. And then it just kind of spiraled. And I got drunk for the first.

[Zach Wickham]

Time, but that first drink was Smirnoff. Like, how many. How many sobriety or. No, how many did it take? How many. How many virginities has. Has Smirnoff Ice taken? How many people in this planet their first?

[Mason]

I would assume all of them.

[Zach Wickham]

Yeah.

[Mason]

If Smirnoff Vice isn't there. Have you lost your virginity or are you still a virgin?

[Zach Wickham]

If. Wait, if we zoom into that time, you're 18. You're at the party with your friends. You're getting tipsy on Smirnoff Ice at that moment in time, had you also.

[Mason]

Can I say how much I love it how you say Smirnoff?

[Zach Wickham]

How do you say it?

[Mason]

Smirnoff.

[Zach Wickham]

Smirnoff.

[Mason]

Smear.

[Zach Wickham]

Smear.

[Mason]

There's no ch.

[Zach Wickham]

Okay, okay. I'm sorry.

[Mason]

No, I just love the way you say it. It's funny.

[Zach Wickham]

He's icing me out as he's icing me.

[Mason]

Am I seeing you out for the rest of the time?

[Zach Wickham]

No, we're zoomed in now. We're back in Kentucky. We're in Louisville, right?

[Mason]

Louisville.

[Zach Wickham]

Yeah, we're in Louisville. You're sipping some shmearing off ice. You're 18. Have you come out at that moment in time?

[Mason]

No, I didn't. I came out when I was still 18, but not. I came out to a girl that I just met. The first time was, like, maybe December, so I still hadn't come out yet.

[Zach Wickham]

Yeah.

[Mason]

But I had some inklings. You know, there was some. There's some tenants. There were some red flags in my. In my own psyche where I was like, maybe you're gay.

[Zach Wickham]

Did you have a little bit of an overcompensating journey Yourself, where you were?

[Mason]

No.

[Zach Wickham]

Okay.

[Mason]

No. Mine was very undercompensating. I was like, no, I'm definitely gay.

[Zach Wickham]

Did you know how you knew from a very young age?

[Mason]

Yeah. Like, it's funny because if. If we didn't have the way society says, like, oh, you're like, what girl do you like? And it pushes you into these lanes. If people just listened to their kids or said, oh, like, the choices. I would have been gay at five. Like, I knew I liked boys right off the bat.

[Zach Wickham]

Yeah.

[Mason]

Like, boys were so much more interesting to me.

[Zach Wickham]

What was the dynamic with your family?

[Mason]

Not to play with, but were you.

[Zach Wickham]

Nervous to come out to your family?

[Mason]

What's crazy is my family is, like, the most supportive, caring, like, part of the community. Like, my dad, when he was at Humana, which is where he worked, he was part of the. I don't even know what they call it. The work group for the lgbt. You know, he was always involved. My mom was involved with the LGBT group on our college campus. When I. Once I came out, they were super open, super whatever. However, besides Will and Grace being the. The only thing our family had ever talked about being gay or, like, seen, like, a gay portrayal before the Internet.

[Zach Wickham]

Ellen kissing another woman would have broken the Internet.

[Mason]

Well, and it. And it broke her career for a while.

[Zach Wickham]

Yeah.

[Mason]

You know, when she. When she decided to do that and be so brave, like, she lost her career for many years, you guys.

[Zach Wickham]

That was, like, 20 years ago. It was five years ago.

[Mason]

Yeah. And. And it took her a while to recover. And then after Ellen, and I don't remember what year that was, but then until Will and Grace was on in 1998 was when it premiered. There wasn't like that. You know, there was, like, Queer As Folk and some other things, but they were on, like, HBO or Showtime or, you know. Oh, my God. Do you remember on hbo, Taxi, Confessionals.

[Zach Wickham]

Tax, Sexy Cap Confessions. Oh, like it was yesterday.

[Mason]

Oh, my God. Now, that was a sexual awakening. That and real. It was called, like, real sex. Blah, blah, blah, like, 71 or whatever. They always had a dick somewhere. And you. I'd never seen them in the wild before.

[Zach Wickham]

They were so juicy. Zach, tomorrow you find out that they're gonna do an updated version, Uber Confessions. But it's a documentary on everything you've ever said while drunk in the back of an Uber. On a scale 1 to 10, how scared are you?

[Mason]

Oh, my God.

[Zach Wickham]

Let's not digress.

[Mason]

Yeah, I'm gonna say. I'm definitely gonna say it's gotta be. I Mean, I'm not.

[Zach Wickham]

I'm kidding.

[Mason]

Yeah, we're zooming back in anyway, though.

[Zach Wickham]

We're back. We're back in Kentucky. We're back in Kentucky. We're sipping Smirnoff again. Wait, did you. Did it feel safe in your community? Let's. Let's be honest. Kentucky doesn't have the best reputation, the most liberal progressive reputation, although they've come a long way for sure, especially certain parts like Lexington and stuff. But did you feel safe coming out in Kentucky?

[Mason]

But Louisville's different. Louisville is one of the most progressive cities in the South. It has one of the largest gay populations. Randomly, per capita, we have very strong gay community. Also, pretty much every politician that has been around since I've been around or like, been alive has been a Democrat or liberal. Like, our mayors have given speeches at the gay club. So our pride is huge. It's. Louisville's a different beast. We also have the. Some of the strongest LGBT protections for workplace, for housing that includes trans people. It includes the full umbrella. Doesn't just disclude some or. And it's workplace and housing which you don't have in other cities in the South. So as far as that's concerned, Louisville was great to grow up in. I never. Even though I was Catholic, I did go to an all boys Catholic high school. And I mean, oh, dear God, it's probably why I drink Smirnoff Ice, you know, as my first drink. But, you know, that was a little.

[Zach Wickham]

Difficult and like, so you felt relatively safe there was. Did you. Did you have any overarching sense of shame or anything? Or do you had a good supportive group of friends and community and it felt like a pretty safe place to be. Zach Wickham, Be who you are. Express your sexuality.

[Mason]

Well, let me put it this way. I was never not myself. So if people want to call me gay, they could call me gay or, you know, or then I had my defenders that were like, he is totally straight. He just. He just likes dancing if it tells you anything. I went to seven. I had to buy a tux. I went to seven. Seven senior proms at all girl at all the all girls schools. I went to every single Catholic school. I went to all of their senior proms and my. And then. And then the only other one was my own. Oh, and then I went to two public school ones as well.

[Zach Wickham]

That's got to be some kind of record. Seven proms is egregious.

[Mason]

My mom was like, we're buying a tux, cuz I'm not Renting a tux every time you want to go.

[Zach Wickham]

That's so funny.

[Mason]

But, yeah, I feel like I. I felt. But it's. It's the not knowing. You don't talk about it. It's never talked about. You have to find out all this stuff about yourself on your own, like through, you know, men's fitness magazines and, you know, just like, especially pre Yahoo Messenger.

[Zach Wickham]

Now we have chat GPT as our therapist. We have the Internet. But before then, like, yeah, if you live in a small anytown, usa, it was. It could have been a scary time to be.

[Mason]

Well, then it was.

[Zach Wickham]

It was. No, it couldn't. No. Yeah, it was, period.

[Mason]

And actually, what's really, what's amazing about WeHo and something I want to bring up and what's so important about pride too, is gay bars. So gay bars are actually kind of like the hub of gay. The center of, like, gay life. Granted, in the past 10 to 15 years, it has shifted because gays are more accepted other places, so they don't congregate in just gay bars. And a lot of gay bars have actually been going out of business in smaller towns. But they are the center of gay life because that's where the knowledge transfer on how to be gay or what it means to be or what has happened in the past. That's where you get that knowledge. Because you, you're not going to get it in school.

[Zach Wickham]

You mean for the uninitiated of the DP closet, transitioning into their own powerful sense of self.

[Mason]

Exactly. And again, it was like, that is what your chat GPT was. It's the old guy at the end of the bar that is gonna tell you what happened in 1980 or 73 or whatever year, you know what I mean? It's like, that is how you learn these things. And, and I feel like that is kind of a. A disconnect now where I'm like, kind of scared. I'm hoping that we can bridge that gap again to, like, the younger generation to make sure that they understand how important, like, gay bars are to the gay community.

[Zach Wickham]

But yeah, yeah, I mean, I've just. Yeah, Again, in my 15 years, I've heard so many. Yeah, again, uplifting stories, but also really sad stories about people who are now estranged with their families. They have zero communication with their mother, their father, because they just never accepted their lifestyle or who they were, their sexuality. And it breaks my heart. Well, it's not easy coming out. It's not easy coming out.

[Mason]

And that happens all the time, you know, and it's it's definitely not easy coming out because, you know, it's the only time where you have to. Where you could possibly be disowned from your family. You're probably. I mean, more than likely you're not going to be disowned from your family for, you know, any other thing, really. Except for that.

[Zach Wickham]

Yeah.

[Mason]

Right off the bat, you know.

[Zach Wickham]

Yeah. There's. There's joy and pain. There's pain and joy. There's so many people who are struggling, have struggle, but overall, we're moving in the right direction.

[Mason]

I feel like even when we take these steps back, we're. Well, I have some faith in America. I have some faith in humanity that. Okay, guys, is it better right now, or was it better a few years ago? Like, come on, come on.

[Zach Wickham]

Right now. Though I will say, in this very moment, in our little, I guess, microclimate, microcosm bubble, in our little WeHo bubble, this is like, one of my favorite times of year. Summer is about to. Summer Pride is upon us. Like, the. The. The love in the air is palpable. There's an energy. You can feel the love coursing through the air. It's palpable.

[Mason]

It's definitely palpable.

[Zach Wickham]

I feel it this time of year.

[Mason]

I feel it in my palpal.

[Zach Wickham]

I feel it in my. No, but usually this time of year, so many good things are happening. Yeah. Pride's about to start with that. That's usually the beginning of a new season of Vanderpump rules.

[Mason]

Can I just. Can. Let's walk down memory lane of. I remember.

[Zach Wickham]

Let's not walk too far.

[Mason]

Well, let's not walk too far. Actually. I don't want to go with a sad story, but the year after I moved here was the Pulse Club shooting, and I was just in Orlando the. That day and had just flown back from gay days in Orlando and landed here in la. I had just been to Pulse to. I can't remember what's the other. Whatever. All the, like, bars. I just been to gay days at Disney and, like, come back here and then, like, that shooting happens and then. And then I remember Britney's working at sir and I'm just, like, a wreck. And then I think you guys, like, didn't know if you were gonna film or not because it was like a little un. Like nobody knew what was going on.

[Zach Wickham]

Yeah. No, it was terrifying.

[Mason]

Yeah. That was a crazy time.

[Zach Wickham]

I know that Orlando is very near and dear to Lance. Lance Bass, who's part of the LGBT community. And, oh, is he yeah, but no, I remember just. That was.

[Mason]

That was a crazy time.

[Zach Wickham]

That wasn't that long ago, guys. That's why it's like.

[Mason]

Yeah, and that's the thing.

[Zach Wickham]

My pride is just.

[Mason]

It's so important and, you know, But I digress from that type of stuff. The Sir Prides, though, were so much fun.

[Zach Wickham]

Lit and Tom Toms as well.

[Mason]

Well, yeah. And once. Tom Tom Open and Pump.

[Zach Wickham]

Yeah.

[Mason]

Was that the one day you worked at Pump? Was that on a pride?

[Zach Wickham]

No, it wasn't.

[Mason]

It wasn't even a pride. Okay.

[Zach Wickham]

I would have toughed it out for pride. I would have not had an existential panic attack on pride.

[Mason]

You can literally see your panic attack happening on that security video. I swear.

[Zach Wickham]

I know. I haven't had a panic attack in a long time. How's your anxiety? How are you? Just generally speaking, I feel. You look great.

[Mason]

Thank you.

[Zach Wickham]

What's it like having a big head? What are the pros and cons?

[Mason]

Well, that's. I. I hate you. I'm gonna kick you. I don't think I have a big head. I don't think I Like. I don't think I'm gonna be one of those people that ever would get a big head from stuff like that because, like, I'm humble. I meant literally, I'm Ginny from. I know. I know. I knew what you meant. I was trying to avoid it.

[Zach Wickham]

I know. You guys, if we're thinking about going down into the field, I don't know if you guys want to come along for the ride. We were thinking about going to our favorite spots, hitting up a couple. Yeah, we're gonna have a few more smear knoffs, you know? You know what I saw before I came here? I was sitting outside. I read this article, and it says, when you die, you play seven minutes of the best moments of your life. Have you seen this?

[Mason]

Seven minutes.

[Zach Wickham]

I don't know. I don't know how reputable this. This resource was, but I thought that was kind of romantic. And I was thinking, Zach, what would the highlight reel look like? 7 minutes of your life so far.

[Mason]

Oh, my God. You're.

[Zach Wickham]

Would I be in it?

[Mason]

1.002 seconds. I'm just kidding.

[Zach Wickham]

Wait.

[Mason]

Yeah, no, I'd actually feel like you'd be. You'd be a. A little bit of it, because. At least 30 seconds. No, I don't know what would play, but I feel like this year, especially for us, I feel like we've become a lot closer, even though we've always been friends and whatever but now we're. We're basically hanging out every single weekend.

[Zach Wickham]

We're besties.

[Mason]

We're besties.

[Zach Wickham]

Yeah.

[Mason]

Which I'm sure somebody might not like that.

[Zach Wickham]

Wait, I want to. I want to hear your answer to the question.

[Mason]

What would my. Seven minutes of just little highlight reel.

[Zach Wickham]

For the listeners here.

[Mason]

I think some of it would be, like, the first. I feel like it would be a lot of first because you get those, like, real nostalgic, like, bursts of serotonin. So, like, the first time you really fell in love or the first time you kissed? Well, for me, the first time I kissed a boy, which was later than the first time I did other stuff.

[Zach Wickham]

Wait, we got to stop there, because that was actually one of my questions. Who can you say. Can you mention who you're. You don't have to mention their name if you're not comfortable with it. When was your first kiss? Was it in Kentucky?

[Mason]

Yeah.

[Zach Wickham]

My off involved.

[Mason]

There was vodka fleet. Well, his name was Jason. He was my first boyfriend. But before that, there was still. There had been other people we just didn't kiss, probably because they were straight.

[Zach Wickham]

Strictly business.

[Mason]

Yeah.

[Zach Wickham]

Yeah.

[Mason]

Well, you know, like, kids are horny, and. You know what I mean, like, when you're younger and you're a boy and you just, like, try things, you're experimenting. And I. I was just like, you know, I was. I think I was an easy target for people to be like, he'll definitely do something. They were like. I'm pretty sure those rumors are.

[Zach Wickham]

We had. Wait, is this. This is the highlight reel? It's you just hooking up with straight.

[Mason]

Boys the entire time? No, absolutely not.

[Zach Wickham]

Seven minutes of sex, you guys.

[Mason]

There's not that many.

[Zach Wickham]

Okay. You just exposed yourself.

[Mason]

It was consensual, though, you know? And then, like, you know, just like I said, I would say, like, honestly, probably first time or like, one of, like, one time at a drag show. First time being at a club.

[Zach Wickham]

I can remember my first time going to the Abbey. Like, it was yesterday. I just felt like I arrived. I felt like I was in the right place at the right time. It was like 2009. And I'm like, this is exactly what I wanted. I guess I know I'm straight, but I just was like, I feel. I've never felt more myself than I did at the Abbey in West Hollywood, pursuing my dream of being an actor, living with Tom and Jax. Anyways, I just felt like I was at the right place at the right time, and everything was coming together. Did you feel that when you first moved here?

[Mason]

I did, but. Well, and because I moved later. Yeah. So you. How did you make it during the. That was literally the financial crisis. Because I also graduated. Well, actually I graduated like one year after that because I took a little bit longer. But when I graduated, there was no jobs. There was no I. I wanted to come to LA or New York City. It was one or the other. I was like, that was my goal. I'm moving. I even sold, actually, when I. This is a fun story. When I graduated, I sold my car to force myself without my parents knowledge, which was. I do regret that, but I sold my car and I was like. Because I didn't need it. If I moved, I was going to ride the bus or the subway or whatever. That would be my seed money. Little did I know that was not even remotely gonna get me anywhere. So I stayed and I, like, got. Finally found a good job and, like, saved up and kind of took the longer route to get here because I didn't move here until I was 29. So I kind of had like all those, like, I kind of lived a full life in Louisville, like a full adult life, and then moved here and. And it felt exactly where it was. Really hard, though. The transition was really hard.

[Zach Wickham]

No, it was terrifying. I had a pretty good job. I wasn't like raking it in, but, you know, once I got out here, I had 30. $600, barely. And when it was gone in like a month and a half between rent. First. First and last month's rent, and I felt like I didn't have a pot to piss in. But it was gig economy. We grinded it out. No, we had no shame. Never said no to a job.

[Mason]

Literally never. I. I did. I've done so many things working here to make it work. And during. Because also the pandemic hit like, what, three or four years into me being in LA and bam. All of a sudden the entertainment industry is at a halt. And that is what I work in. That is where, you know, I do social media. I do it. And now no one wants to pay for it now. No one. You know, everybody's like. And it was. It was crazy. But, yeah, that's what. Just grind away. The true test job, the.

[Zach Wickham]

The true. The true testament to one's commitment to being out here is how low will you stoop. Have you. How many times, Zach, have you had to pass champagne out shirtless at a private party? Or d' oeuvres, Chicken tender with mango chutney with your shirt off? I've been There. Done that a few times.

[Mason]

Well, see, they don't want my shirt off.

[Zach Wickham]

They told me to put my shirt back on. One time I was at a party. No, one time I was at a party because we worked a lot of private parties. Like, really, like, cool.

[Mason]

Oh, no, you guys did work really great jobs.

[Zach Wickham]

And like, let's just, like, a lot of the times, in case you guys are wondering, like, they would pay us maybe like 300 buck flat rate for the night, and then they'd throw us out extra 100 bucks. So it's like 400 bucks. You work like three, four hours. I remember one night in particular we were bartending a gay birthday. It was me and Jax. It was so fun. Everybody was so sweet, but we had our shirts off and. No, no, excuse me. We did not have our shirts off. And I was like. I was hot. I took my shirt off, and Jax had his shirt on the whole time. And I remember they kept cheering for him to take his shirt off. This is like 2009. And I was like, you guys, I've.

[Mason]

Had my shirt off the whole time.

[Zach Wickham]

And somebody goes, who cares that I'm scarred? Whoever said that, I hope you.

[Mason]

You. You're still scarred.

[Zach Wickham]

I'm touching.

[Mason]

I see it in your eyes right now.

[Zach Wickham]

Put my shirt right back. I don't want to make it sound like we were whoring ourselves out, because we weren't. They were super fun and respect respectful chill parties. But, like, you know, but, yeah, if you had your shirt off, hello.

[Mason]

It's eye candy. Yeah, but I. Yeah, I've never taken my shirt off, but I've done every other thing, you know, under the. But, like, I. I've sold plasma before, you know, just for, you know, the extra. You just do what you got to do to make every single end meet. Actually, when Jasmine and I live together in this apartment, we almost started something called Ratchet Kitchen. We were gonna do like, a YouTube show called Ratchet Kitchen because we were both so incredibly poor for, like, it was like the first or the first eight months of the pandemic. And we would come home number one. We would use reward apps and try to just get an extra chicken sandwich or whatever. But then we would come home, and all we would have left is, like, pickle juice, noodles, mayonnaise, salt, pepper, whatever. And then we would just be drunk and just like, make some concoction. And that's what we were gonna eat that night.

[Zach Wickham]

And drunken chefs, we've all been there. Drunken chefs, you gotta improvise, you know.

[Mason]

So, you know I've. I've eaten my fair share of pickle or buttered noodles that I'm. I just, I powered through.

[Zach Wickham]

We've paid our dues.

[Mason]

We've paid our dues.

[Zach Wickham]

Now, Zach, am I or am I not an Ally?

[Mason]

Oh, you. You're a capital A ally, actually, though. But. And you're. I always tell Kristen I'm high fiving. I always tell Kristen that. Okay, so I get her out two times a year. My birthday and Pride. Those are the two times where I can guilt her to come out with me. And this year on Pride, she was like, her daughter will be born. We thought, like, at a certain day or whatever. And I was like, oh, perfect. So you'll be. She's actually an ally because she like, you're going to be able to go to Pride. And she's like, absolutely not. I'm not going to Pride. I'm like, okay, this is the one year I'll give you a pass. But previously, if she doesn't show up, I'm like, if you don't show up, I'm going to take your Ally card and I'm going to burn it and you will never see it again.

[Zach Wickham]

What? Yeah, you can take the Ally card back.

[Mason]

Gays can. Anybody in our community can take the Ally card in any time we want.

[Zach Wickham]

And if you want to get it back. What is it, a 10 question test or something?

[Mason]

No, it's a point system. So you have to do enough points.

[Zach Wickham]

Quiz me.

[Mason]

Well, no, it's not, it's not quiz you have to do. It's work based. So you have to, you have to buy a certain amount of gay shots. You have to attend your friends. You have to attend a gay person or a person in the LGBT community's standup comedy or.

[Zach Wickham]

Okay, okay.

[Mason]

Improv show.

[Zach Wickham]

I get it.

[Mason]

You know what I mean? And then you get points based on that, and then you can get your allyship back. But once you lose it, though, it's hard to get back.

[Zach Wickham]

So I feel like I'm pretty knowledgeable in general. Yeah, but do you have any questions for me or anything?

[Mason]

No. I mean, that's why I say you're. You're coming. You're flying in the day of Pride and still going to make it out. And that's, that's, that's a true Ally.

[Zach Wickham]

Quiz me.

[Mason]

Well, actually, I thought you said so.

[Zach Wickham]

He said he was going to put me to that. He said he was going to put my ally to the test.

[Mason]

I am going to put your ally to the test. We don't have, actually. Well, I had meant. I kind of a little bit mentioned that I was going to do a little quiz with you where I was going to say a gay word and see if you knew what it was.

[Zach Wickham]

Okay, let's do it.

[Mason]

So we'll start off. We'll start off really easy with just Grindr.

[Zach Wickham]

Grindr is a mostly gay app. And I think generally speaking, it's less about romance and more about, you know, doing the nasty. That's the best euphemism I could come up with.

[Mason]

I'll take that now as a bonus point. Can you make the grounder Grinder notification sound?

[Zach Wickham]

No.

[Mason]

Oh, okay. Okay.

[Zach Wickham]

That's a trick question.

[Mason]

Was it? Yeah, I don't know. I feel like there's a lot of allies out there that would know that. Okay, let me.

[Zach Wickham]

Someone told me yesterday that I'm an otter. Should we. Should we go over the terminology for different members of the. The gay community?

[Mason]

Yeah, let's do that.

[Zach Wickham]

We do a little refresher course.

[Mason]

It's basically like a zoo.

[Zach Wickham]

Yeah, it's like a zoo.

[Mason]

Yeah. So we'll. We'll start with the hairiest and go to the. The least hairy. So, bear.

[Zach Wickham]

Yeah. So can you tell the audience what a bear is? I feel like everyone. All of our listeners know. But just in case.

[Mason]

Yeah. So, you know, you have the bear. So that's a. A bigger guy, burlier, who has, you know, more. A lot more hair on his chest, body, back, you know, just pretty much anywhere.

[Zach Wickham]

Yeah.

[Mason]

Now you have a slightly. So there are in between where it's like a pre. You know, like you're prebear, but like you're clearly going on that path. But we're not going to get into that.

[Zach Wickham]

Yeah.

[Mason]

We'll just go from. Down from there. Tiff notes, you have the otter, which is a slightly skinnier version with a lot less hair.

[Zach Wickham]

My hands up in the air proudly right now.

[Mason]

But although I'm not. But still some hair.

[Zach Wickham]

No, I'm, you know, I think I've been called an otter before.

[Mason]

I think it's actually very fitting.

[Zach Wickham]

Thank you.

[Mason]

I, for myself, I don't really fit in any of the animal categories. I'm like, you defy categorization.

[Zach Wickham]

You do. You know, you're in a league of your own.

[Mason]

Yeah, kind of. I feel like there's a lot of us that can't really be categorized into those very overarching terms. Yeah, yeah. Because I don't have hair, but I'm not a seal. Like, wait, what's A seal. I just made it up. Okay.

[Zach Wickham]

And then below that is a tweet.

[Mason]

Know.

[Zach Wickham]

Everyone knows a twink, which can be used as a derogatory term.

[Mason]

But yeah, so a twink, which is, you know, a very skinny, you white male, but can be any ethnicity as well. I actually, sometimes I will call Benji a seal because he's so smooth. He's like.

[Zach Wickham]

Benji is smooth as hell.

[Mason]

He is.

[Zach Wickham]

Generally speaking. I'm not talking.

[Mason]

Yeah, yeah, exactly. Well, that's just.

[Zach Wickham]

That was just a little Cliff Notes. Just Cliff Notes for the gang.

[Mason]

Okay, so what about mother Load?

[Zach Wickham]

One of the greatest bars in West Hollywood? Mother load, dad.

[Mason]

No, mother meaning it's a gay term.

[Zach Wickham]

Oh.

[Mason]

If I said, oh, my God, your mother, what would that mean?

[Zach Wickham]

I think it's like daddy, but with more feminine energy.

[Mason]

I like the way you describe that. It means like queen. She's the. She is our.

[Zach Wickham]

She's the matriarch.

[Mason]

She's the one that basically like you birth. But it. You could say mother to a man. To.

[Zach Wickham]

I can say.

[Mason]

You want to.

[Zach Wickham]

I would probably refer to Lisa Vanderpump as mother.

[Mason]

Yeah. Or like, you know, RuPaul is mother. Any. Any pop star is mother. Basically, like, you know, like, for me, mother would be like Britney Spears or Christina. But for others, it could be, you.

[Zach Wickham]

Know, this is good stuff. I didn't know that one. Yeah, let's keep going.

[Mason]

It was really funny, actually. Kesha in an interview the other day said, do you know about this mother? And like, I guess she had never heard the terminology before. So it's really funny. This one's going to be an easy one.

[Zach Wickham]

Snatched snatch just means you're. You're fly, you're fresh, you're funky. Okay, wait. It just means you look. You're. It looks like you're. You're slaying. If you're snatched, you're slaying, right?

[Mason]

Yeah.

[Zach Wickham]

Thank you. Am I snatched?

[Mason]

You are snatched. Really? Yeah.

[Zach Wickham]

Thank you.

[Mason]

I've always thought you're snatched. Wow. Especially your hair at all times. You're. You have the best. I am the only person's hair I'm jealous of is your hair. Wow. I wish I had your hair.

[Zach Wickham]

Your hair is some of the most controversial contra on Bravo for the worst reason. Listen, your hair had a glow up. It looks so good right now.

[Mason]

It looks better. That's. I'll say that you don't look like.

[Zach Wickham]

A Lego character anymore.

[Mason]

But I also. I've come. So, like, I love the term Lego. I love that. That's like a Thing. So now I'm like, should I put my hair back? No.

[Zach Wickham]

But it was kind of iconic. It kind of had a Guy Fieri undertone. No, no. Not to say. Not to. Not to draw a direct correlation or a direct comparison, but it was like, you know, he's indistinguishable. He's iconic. And you were kind of going in that direction, and you let the Internet bully you into having a safe, sexy waft.

[Mason]

No, no, the. Well, they did bully me, but that's okay. I also, you know, sometimes when you don't realize exactly how something looks and you take a step back and you're like, I could try harder. You know, like, I just. I'm very lazy. And putting your hair, like, your hair just sits like that all the time. I've never seen you have to, like, style your hair or whatever. Whereas, like, mine takes effort to get it to, like, go up and blah, blah, blah. So I've just learned. Okay. Like, I just have to do it.

[Zach Wickham]

Do you guys, like. Do you guys like Zach's hair? I know it's kind of rhetorical because you can't answer me. It's the one way.

[Mason]

You know, every. Every single person in their car shaking their head no.

[Zach Wickham]

You guys, I saw something really funny on Reddit the other day. I just had to pull it up again. And by the way, if you're on a Bravo show, don't ever go down Reddit rabbit holes. It is a dark, scary place. They will tear you apart, and you will have new, unfound insecurities that you never even realized.

[Mason]

Never even realized.

[Zach Wickham]

But someone. Someone said, why does Zach look like the scary guy from Lazytown?

[Mason]

Oh, my God. People have said that a few times. The Robbie Rotten person. Yeah, they've been saying. They said that. What was the other? Chris Lily, who does Summer High tie.

[Zach Wickham]

Yeah.

[Mason]

Which is like that. Australia. Have you seen that?

[Zach Wickham]

I've heard of it, yeah.

[Mason]

Which I do give some of those vibes, so I can't, like, argue with them. I'm like, okay, yeah. And then, like, those are, like, extreme, extreme versions. But, yeah, I. I can't not agree with it. I'm like, yeah, I. I see what you're seeing. I'm not blind, Zach.

[Zach Wickham]

I'm so happy you're here and you're sitting in front of me.

[Mason]

I know it's not a good closing.

[Zach Wickham]

Statement, but it's not.

[Mason]

Isn't your life better because I'm in front of you?

[Zach Wickham]

At least by 20.

[Mason]

Thank you.

[Zach Wickham]

You guys want to keep hanging out? I Know, we, we talked longer than we usually do, but do you want, you want to go to like two of our favorite spots in West Hollywood?

[Mason]

Yeah.

[Zach Wickham]

And we'll do a little audio diary.

[Mason]

We'll do just a little audio if.

[Zach Wickham]

You guys want to stick with us. Just like little five minutes session at each one. What we like there, what we drink there. Yeah, I guess this is a retox.

[Mason]

And have a virtual drink session.

[Zach Wickham]

This was going to be a detox. I mean even though we were slowly.

[Mason]

Sipping a. I was like, what do you mean detox? Oh, is that, is that why you put the.

[Zach Wickham]

Let's. This one's more about love. And by the way. Yeah. Let's not forget love conquers.

[Mason]

Oh, do you try to do detox then reto every other episode?

[Zach Wickham]

Yeah, well, I like to have a three to one ratio. Three detoxes to one retox.

[Mason]

Oh.

[Zach Wickham]

So.

[Mason]

Well, then I shouldn't be on for at least three. I'm just kidding.

[Zach Wickham]

Wait. Cuz we're going to go out and have fun. Before we do, could you leave for so long?

[Mason]

Also do you want to tell people about.

[Zach Wickham]

Oh, we're going to. Oh, we're going to get to that. By the way, me and Zach are going to be at the Pendry in San Diego. I was going to wait till the end, but let's do it right now. Me and Zach are co hosting pool party at the Pendry San Diego. It's going down.

[Mason]

It's going to be so much fun. You guys gotta come.

[Zach Wickham]

Please come June 8th. If you guys don't come, we'll be so sad.

[Mason]

We'll be so sad.

[Zach Wickham]

It's June 8th, so we hope to see you guys there.

[Mason]

No detoxing.

[Zach Wickham]

No. We're going to retox.

[Mason]

We're going to. That'll be.

[Zach Wickham]

But if you're not drinking, that's okay. We'll have delicious mocktails and all kinds of fun stuff. Zach, if there's anybody out there. Before we hit the bars and talk about our favorite spots in West Hollywood, if there's anybody out there who's still in the closet scared of coming out. Do you have any words of wisdom? Any, any, Any. Yeah, any words of wisdom to someone out there who's just like wrestling with their sexuality?

[Mason]

I. The thing I always say is take your time. It's on your schedule. It is on nobody else's. Because if I don't want to get out of bed in the morning and, and I need like a little bit of extra mental time for that or mental Time for anything, I take it. And I think that is the most important thing is to protect your mental state at all times. So if you're thinking about it going back and forth, talk to people, but take your time. Don't do it on anybody else's schedule or because anybody else feels like they. You need to or whatever, or you feel like, oh, well, why am I making this such a big deal? It is what you're going through, and never put that pressure on yourself, but just know that, like, once you do make that leap, it's going to you. You will feel so much better. You just don't know it. Yeah, it's just one of those things. You can't experience it until you feel it.

[Zach Wickham]

Beautifully stated. All right, we're going to sign off for a second, and then we're gonna go down to our two favorite spots in West Hollywood. We're gonna spread a little love. We're gonna have some drinks, if you guys will stick with us. And, yeah, we'll pick up where we're leaving off.

[Mason]

It'll be so much fun.

[Zach Wickham]

It's gonna be so fun. You guys stick to us.

[Mason]

Take a shot with us.

[Zach Wickham]

Okay, bye.

[Jasmine]

WeHo Pride is the city of West Hollywood's official LGBTQ Pride celebration. And every year, we honor the city's legacy as a fearless advocate for progress and a proud beacon for LGBTQ rights, activism, and visibility. And we know that Pride is more than just a celebration. It's a powerful expression of who we are. It's about embracing our full and fabulous selves, everything that makes each of us unique. For so many LGBTQ people, Pride is just one of the few places where we can live fully out loud, free from fear, free from judgment, and full of joy. We know that right now, across the country, reactionary forces are are working overtime to roll back our rights, erase our identities, and silence our stories. That hate and hostility that's coming from the current presidential administration is not just dangerous. It is our call to action here in West Hollywood. We won't back down. We're rising up, we're fighting back, and we're standing proud for our rights, our dignity, and our lives.

[Kyle Chen]

Hey, y' all, it's Jasmine from the Valley. I just want to say Happy Pride Month. You know, I seriously love Pride. There is nothing like the energy, the joy, and the love that fills the air when our community comes together. And it's not just about celebration. It's about visibility, connection, and honoring that strength that it takes to live out loud, you know, and pride. For me, it Reminds me how important it is to show up for each other, to be seen, and to keep pushing for a world where everyone can feel safe and feel free to be themselves. So, happy Pride Month, y' all all. Let's keep spreading the love. Love, you guys.

[Mason]

Hey, everyone, this is Kyle Chen. I love Pride Month because it is the perfect time to start meaningful conversations with my straight friends and allies, showing love and supports to our LGBTQIA community matters. We get to learn, connect, celebrate our history, and, yes, party all month long. Let's make it loud, proud, and full of love.

[Tom Fraser]

Hello, Tom Fraser here, your favorite below deca. Thank you for asking me to be a part of this. I think it's super important that we prioritize the celebration of Pride, especially at this time. I think that it matters more than ever. I think that the community and the minorities need to be supported by as many, many allies and as many voices as possible. It is a time of uncertainty for a lot of us, and we need to protect what we have worked so hard for over the last century and continue to strive forward in hopes and in the dream of total equality for everyone. So I love this. You're doing this. I, too, am being a huge part of the community and speaking out as much as I possibly can to let people know they're not alone, they're supported and they're loved, and that there is a family out there for everyone that you can choose that will have your back, that will praise who you are and that will love you for who you are. Thank you so much, Tom, for helping us, us fight for what is right and for what is fair, and sending you lots and lots of love.

[Kyle Chen]

Bye.

[Tom Fraser]

Bye.

[Harvey Milk]

Hey, Schwartze. How you doing, dude? Hey, listen, Pride is more important than ever this year because the current administration is really coming after us. This Supreme Court is not our friend. This president is not our friend. They are taking away access to our health care. They are taking away research for aids. They are totally gutting every kind of rights. They want to gut the existence of the trans community completely. So now is the time to fight. Like, we haven't fought in a long time. Yeah, celebrate. Go to the parade, but fight. And stay aware and stay awake.

[Jasmine]

Happy Pride, everybody. I can't believe West Hollywood. I think it's the 25th year since the inception of Pride in West Hollywood. How incredible is that? It's a celebration. I'm a huge LGBTQ supporter. It's a wonderful day to really celebrate the inclusiveness and individuality of us all. I send you lots and lots of love.

[Zach Wickham]

Hey, guys. So I couldn't record on location. It was so bloody loud you couldn't hear anything. But hit Tom Tom both days. The parade was amazing. Love won again. One of my favorite days of the year. Truly love Pride. Thank you to everyone who came out, showed love to support the community. Like, it's palpable. You can truly feel the love in the air during Pride. It's electric. I think we hope Pride is the best one, but they're all beautiful in their own ways. But thank you guys for tuning in. We're keeping it together so we can fall apart. Until next time. I'm signing off. Thank you, guys. Love you guys. Bye.

[Jasmine]

Detoxification complete.

[Mason]

Too fast, Trevor.

[Jasmine]

Too fast.

[Tom Schwartz]

Here at the Zebra, research shows people would rather teach their kids to drive than search for auto and home insurance.

[Zach Wickham]

I know what I'm doing, Mom.

[Tom Schwartz]

Or attend a corporate team building workshop.

[Zach Wickham]

Go, team. Feel that synergy.

[Tom Schwartz]

Or be regaled by Uncle Frank's conspiracy theories.

[Zach Wickham]

They're listening to us right now.

[Tom Schwartz]

That's why the Zebra searches for you. Comparing over 100 insurance companies to find SAF savings. No one else can compare. Today at thezebra. Com, we do the searching, you do the saving.

[Zach Wickham]

They're here.