← Detox Retox with Tom Schwartz
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- [00:00]
A
Hi, I'm Angie Hicks, co founder of Angie. One thing I've learned is that you buy a house, but you make it a home. And for decades, Angie's helped millions of homeowners hire skilled pros for the projects that matter, get all your jobs done well@angie.com.
- [00:21]
B
It's now time for your weekly detox with Tom Schwartz. What is up? Hi, gang. Listen, in accordance with dry January, which was not entirely successful for me this year, being in China and Canada, all over the place, really. But in honor of dry January, we're gonna do a little MDMA microdose. Then we're gonna chat with the founder of a functional mushroom company and journalist, the Rolling Stone. It's gonna be groovy and informative. Welcome to another episode of Detox Retox. This one's ambiguous because I guess technically we are taking a drug, but it's mindful, restorative, and informative, so you make the call. But listen, you guys, I just got back from Canada. Every time I come to Canada, it gets colder, but my heart grows warmer. I know that shit's corny, but it came from my heart, so deal with it. Okay? No, I'm kidding. Listen, they told me at Leopold's Pub after I did a cheese pull that the holidays end in March in Canada, at least in Regina. And I love that. Listen, I don't have much Grinch in me, but I do get, like, kind of. I get the blues during January, you know? But I'm telling you, just getting back here, I don't know, this year, my heart feels full. It kind of feels like. Phil, they say that the Grinch's small heart grew three sizes that day. At least three sizes. Yeah, man, I'm in my feels today. Maybe. Maybe it's the travels. Maybe it's my amazing girlfriend who I love very much. Maybe it's just. Was just being in Canada. Maybe. Maybe. Maybe it's Maybelline. No, Maybe. Maybe it's the mdma. Yes, I'm on a microdose of MDMA right now. Yeah, I know. It's not that crazy. Like, I just feel kind of warm and cozy. I feel okay. I don't feel fucked up. I'm not rolling. I don't feel intoxicated. Yeah. Just like, I took the smallest amount, which is one gummy, from a company my friends recommended, and it is lovely. It is lovely. Okay. It's not like, you know, it's not like.
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A
My jaw feels really weird. Yeah, that's the drugs. Drugs love a jaw.
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B
I want more no, no, no, listen, my jaw is fully intact, okay? But if you guys have ever tried it, you might know what that reference is to. Rolling. Yeah. But today, just a mindful little microdose. We're chilling officially. And yeah, I'm also just extra in my feels today. Mostly in a good way. I just saw that. Well, the Internet seems to be rejoicing that Amanda and Kyle separated. I don't know, that's. Maybe it's for the best, but I just, I love them individually and dearly as a couple, even with their imperfections and yeah, like you guys, we get it. We probably all know it's for the best. I don't know the intricacies of their relationship, but it made me sad. I know divorce is fucking hard and even when it is for the best, it's so sad. Really is. But I guess. To new beginnings. Onwards and upwards. Yeah. Also, shout out to the Buffalo Bills, a city I love, I've grown to love. Their fans are next level. Josh Allen, crying post game. Deion Dawkins. Brandon Cooks too, man. Had me in my feelings. I want to see them win a championship. How many times have I made it to the playoffs and then just fell apart? The effing Bears too, man. That clutch pass from Caleb Williams, like fuck good people. Buffalo, Chicago. But yeah, I'm in. I'm deep in my feelings today. Maybe it's just life. Maybe it is the micro toads a little bit. But like also, you guys, just on a side note, like, the deeper your. The farther your team goes in the playoffs. Like it. There's a trickle down effect. The whole local economy in your city benefits and thrives. Bars, restaurants, uber drivers, event spaces, like, you know what I mean? It sucks. Sorry, I'm not crying. But yeah, Today on the show we have Robert Johnson. He owns, yeah, Functional Mushroom Supplement Company. Yeah, he's a journalist and he's also, I think I can say, an advocate for psychedelics for therapeutic purposes. Mdma. Yeah, man. All kinds of practical applications, potentially curbing addictions, ptsd or maybe just like getting your fucking spark back. Dialing in. And yeah, I'm doing a mindful, cheeky little microdose of mdma, by the way. You guys, downsides, let's not forget it's illegal, okay? Also, it can be laced with things like speed, fentanyl, heroin. You have to be careful, okay? You have to be careful. I want to say that again, you guys, this is not medical advice this episode. Please be careful. Don't go out and buy some street drugs or be Reckless. Today's conversation is. Is. It's for educational and storytelling purposes. Okay? Mdma, psychedelics, substances, they can be powerful and you have to respect them. They're not for everyone. And they're illegal in many places. Most places. And any therapeutic use discussed here, you know, happens in like controlled clinical environment or research settings. Some anecdotal. Anecdotal. Personal stuff outside of those settings. But yeah, this isn't medical advice. Okay, do your own research. Mdma, psychedelics, they're a hell of a drug. Have you guys ever tried mdma, like, before it was made legal back in, I think, 1985. Hold on a sec, let me see. Wait, I got lost. Yeah. MDMA was a medication introduced to psychotherapy by Dr. Alexander Shulgin. And yes, studies are currently evaluating the effectiveness of MDMA and ptsd couples therapy. Lots of cool little breakthroughs if you guys, you know, go do a little deep dive on YouTube, Reddit, anywhere on the Internet. Yeah, man, but like, listen, like I said, doesn't come without its downsides. If you abuse it, if you've ever done it, like a lot of it. Maybe I have, maybe I haven't. The next day, you can feel like shit. Yeah, you get that post role Monday blues, like your little neurochemical dip because, well, MDMA causes like a big release of serotonin, which I'm sure you guys all know it's a neurotransmitter linked to mood, good vibes, connection, and just overall upbeat awesomeness. But yeah, if you do a lot, you abuse it. The next day, your brain hasn't had a chance to fully replenish. So things can feel like a little blue, kind of like I usually do in January, a little muted, like a little low. You're like, what happened to my spark, my empathy? All this, this is just to say, like, you guys be careful here if you're going to partake. Yeah, man. I don't know if you guys want to get too deep on how it actually affects the brain. We could do a little one on one real quick. You could fast forward this part. But yeah, like we talked about it, it floods the brain with neurotransmitters, especially serotonin. We're all familiar with serotonin. I'm full of it right now. Just because. More, I'm high on life, I think. But yeah, the microdose, it didn't hurt. Okay. I feel warm and cozy and fuzzy, but it's just nice. It feels nice. And yeah, man, little dopamine release to chill out, be more Present, snuggled with my pups and just find myself overall just feeling grateful for everything. The good, the bad, the ugly that's happened in my life. Feeling very present. That's my favorite thing about doing psilocybin or mdma micro doses. And again, I'm doing the smallest amount. I'm not a degenerate here and I just. Yeah, it's nice, it's nice, but if you do too much, you know, we don't have to keep going back to that. I don't want to be a Debbie Downer, but you guys, I just have to be up front. You know, you get the increased heart rate, blood pressure, jaw clenching, teeth grinding, sweating, warm, wanting to touch everything. You can also get dehydrated, easily overheated. It can really mess with your sleep. And yeah, you can deal with that. Post. Use serotonin blues. Serotonin blues. You just feel depleted if you do too much. But not with micro doses. I use them sparingly and I've never felt down. If anything, I have an afterglow afterwards. But yeah, man, we're gonna get into it. Maybe I'll stop yapping. I am in my feels and I love you guys and I appreciate you guys. I don't know how many episodes are we're in here on Detox Retox, but I'm still planning on trying lots of cool shit. Still looking for a cinematographer for the video element, but yeah, man, Canada. I love you, Regina. You rocked my world. And Kiki, you too. Without further ado, let's get into it. Alright, this is a fun little episode. Thanks for coming on a little journey with me. Okay, very cool. Next stop, Robert Johnson. Let's go. Well, it's official. There are no signs of Christmas in my crib. I've let go of the post holiday blues. How is January for you guys? Yes. Okay. I feel good. I'm ready to dial in New Year, new me, but also New Year. Same stress, but like better equipped to deal with that stress, right? And at least one of those is fixable with perhaps a little indicloud. You guys already know Indicloud is your fully legal online cannabis dispensary for gummies, exotic flower pre rolls, and now zero sugar THC sodas for a clean hangover. Free buzz that keeps your resolution intact for all you dry January doers. I don't really do dry January. I do damp January. But listen, they're dry January friendly and the Tici sodas are delicious. You still get that nice little social buzz. Also, you know, they Got the gummies for unwinding without any alcohol. $70 ounces. All the goodies. Okay. But yeah, January, it's a transition month for me. Okay. I'm transitioning anyways. If you're 21 or older, visit IndeCloud Co and use the code RETOX for 25% off plus free shipping. That's INDA Cloud code RETOX, 25% off, free shipping. And the best way to start 2026 without a hangover. Also, fill out their quick survey when you order to support this show. Enjoy responsibly, you guys. And a huge thanks to Indie cloud for making 2026 feel a little lighter already and for sponsoring my show, Detox Retox. All right, Well, guys, here, I think it's safe to say I have a little bit of an afterglow. I did a mindful microdose MDMA session, and I'm here with Robert Johnson, and he's a journalist. He's also one of the founders of Micro Boost. And is it safe to say that you are very well acclimated with the psychedelic industry in general, the wellness health industry, supplements, stuff like that? Yes.
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A
Yeah, absolutely. I think that's. That's really fair to say. Thanks for having me on the show, Tom.
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Yes. Like, we were just chatting, Robert, I just ordered some of your brain boost pills, and I'm excited about those. I love functional mushrooms as well as the occasional microdose. But lately I've been dabbling more in MDMA microdoses, like the smallest dose possible. And I'm finding it to be very pleasant and therapeutic. And I've been taking some moments to reflect on some of my life decisions and. And also it's been really helpful in just getting me to look at problems from a different vantage point and come up with some solutions that I may not have. Being caught in, like, you know, a thought loop. They helped me get out of thought loops a lot. And anyways, I'm just. I'm an enthusiast and I know, you know, a lot, so I'm just excited to sit down and chat with you for a little bit.
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A
Yeah, that's probably like the biggest perk about writing about the business of psychedelics is getting free psychedelics to try, you know, from all sorts of different companies. I get to see everything that's out there. And, you know, we're always testing products to, you know, keep everybody honest and make sure that, you know, in an unregulated industry that people are still acting right. You know, I think that my experience in Cannabis made me kind of sour about at least how that rolled out in California. And truth be told, I thought it was running a lot better before it became legal here in the state. So, yeah, you know, psychedel with the, the functional mushrooms, I feel like, are a lot like, like CBD got a lot of attention when cannabis started to roll out legal in, in different states for, for adult use. And now I think functional mushrooms are really having a moment in the sun because of so much interest in psychedelic mushrooms. And then people finding, similar to CBD and thc, it was like, oh, wow, these functional mushrooms do a lot of the same stuff that, that psychedelics do and that they're good for your brain, they're good for your body without the psychedelic effects.
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B
Yeah. For the uninitiated, just to distinguish between the two, how would you classify functional mushrooms versus psychedelic? I mean, it seems like a pretty obvious answer, but just for the uninitiated people who are kind of oblivious to this world, could you maybe help distinguish the two?
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A
Yeah, yeah. So functional adaptogenic medicinal mushrooms. These are all different things that are used to describe mushrooms that have been used in Chinese medicine for, for thousands of years. And one that, it's a lot of attention, I think, because the one, because their name is so badass is lion's mane. Right. And so lion's mane, it looks like, it doesn't look like your typical stem and cap. It kind of looks more like a cheerleader's pom pom or the hair of a male lion. And that particular mushroom does a lot of what psychedelic mushrooms do on the micro dosing level. Two things more vocab neurogenesis. Neurogenesis is the forming of new brain cells and then neuroplasticity is forming new neural connections. So sometimes, like in extreme cases on a lot of psychedelics, people will experience what's called synesthesia. Right. That's where people say like, oh, I can see colors in music or I can taste art and your senses are crossed. Those are neuroplasticity, like new neural connections that you're not normally having and a normal state of mind, which is, I.
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Will say, just one of the cooler experiences in life if you ever get a chance. Synesthesia.
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Sorry, yeah, yeah, those are, that's life goals. Yeah. But for, for people like that are, that are saying that they're, they're changing their habits or they're, they're changing the way that they, they look at themselves, that they love themselves, that's, that's forming new neural grooves.
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B
Yes.
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Right. And so I'M working on an article right now that is, that is these studies from a lot of different therapists that are studying the brain on, on psychedelics. And basically the role of a therapist, right, is to find a way to bring you to the childlike state of suggestibility. Right. When we're young, we can learn a language a lot easier, we can pick up an instrument. You know, our brains are like a sponge and that. So we're able to go from our current state to something completely different because our brains are more receptive to that. So when you get to be our age, you know, you're in your 40s, like people make changes a lot slower, a lot differently. And that's not just because we're stubborn, it's because our brains are working the same way they did when we were a child. So in this study it's showing the integration period and psychedelics, I think it's almost become like it's been used so much it's kind of lost its meaning. But that's where, you know, you take psychedelics and then, you know, it's not just the seeing colors or are really enjoying that psychedelic jazz music, but it's what you take away from it after the experience, after you come down that night and then, you know, days or weeks afterwards. And so that, that period, they're studying brains on different psychedelics and, and afterwards. So for example, ketamine, which gets lumped into the category of psychedelics, even though it's more of a dissociate, it does have some of these brain neurogenesis, neuroplasticity effects. Now the effects only last like three days afterwards where your brain is more receptive to this change. And also too, it's more receptive if you were to have some sort of traumatic experience in that period right after you took it as well. Right. You're a lot more sensitive. Now on the other hand, like LSD, it doesn't have a three day period, it has a 30 day period where your brain is more receptive to this kind of being able to deform new paths. So I find that just similar to cannabis as a cannabis user, as a psychedelic user for most of my life. It's awesome now to see scientists basically taking anecdotes of drug users or the plant medicine users and using that as hypothesis for their studies and then showing how, you know, proving neurologically what people have been smoking weed or taking mushrooms, you know, for the past 100 years. Have been telling them all along.
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Yeah, they've been saying it in sort of not a crude way, but kind of a hippie, dippy, layman's way. And now that, now that we have the data and the trials and the science to back it up, I do feel like it's slowly being significantly destigmatized. Yeah. Are you still. Are you optimistic that, like, MDMA and psilocybin will ever be federally recreationally legal?
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A
Well, optimistic. It's hard to be optimistic about. About much these days. I think on a long enough timeline, it's inevitable, you know, and. And it's following the same path as cannabis. Right. We almost had MDMA approved by the FDA last year for, for psychedelic assisted therapy with, with MAPs and Lycos. These big company that has been. Has been a nonprofit since 1986 when MDMA was criminalized, trying to make MDMA a, an approved drug. And so similar to cannabis. Right. I was 25, starting in cannabis. I would roll out, you know, the old lady with cancer, you know, into the city council meetings and petition like, hey, this. This lady, she really needs a glaucoma. Whatever it is. It's. It's really a bipartisan supported thing. If you have a veteran with ptsd, someone suffering from an end of life illness right now, you know, politicians on both sides of the aisle want to be sympathetic to that.
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Totally.
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Or even, I think, once for medical, then. Then a few years later, people are just like, well, seems like everybody could benefit from this. And if it's, if it's less harmful than alcohol and tobacco and all these other things that we take for granted and use every day, then maybe we should rethink all these years of prohibition.
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Totally. And it's had such a positive impact on my life in particular. I know this is anecdotal, guys, not medical advice, but. But just to think of my mom, my mom, she's still very intimidated. She could probably qualify for a medical marijuana card, but she's very intimidated by the whole process. And I send her that, and it curbs her anxiety because she doesn't like alcohol. So she really treats it as a medicine, as a form of therapy, and it's had such a positive impact on her life. One of our sponsors on the podcast Into Cloud, and I take nighttime gummies almost every night with cbd. A little THC in there. And yeah, it's just, it's again, mostly anecdotal, but like mdma, for instance, it's. It's. A lot of my friends have salvaged relationships through a mindful, you know, therapy. Not, not, not, you know, in the therapist's office, but on their own accord taking like small amounts of MDMA and really working through things, you know, kind of cause it, like it, it, it really does do a good job of making you less reactive, less afraid of conflict and just I guess less, less defensive. It, it really lets your guard down and brings out the compassion, the humanity and it just, it, it really opens up the doors for like beautiful communication. I'm speaking from personal experience mostly here, but. Yeah, wouldn't you agree?
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A
Absolutely, Absolutely. I think, you know, the, all the negative studies about MDMA have then later been found to be mistakes or accidents. There was one right around the turn of the century where raves and ecstasy were very popular and the Food and Drug Administration did a study on rats brains with MDMA and came out with all these deleterious effects and published their, their research. They spent a few million dollars on this, by the way. And then a few weeks later they're like, oh shoot, we switched the samples with crystal meth. And so they went back and, and printed a retraction. But by then, you know, they print the retraction on page 41. Whereas the, the big news headlines are, are still being repeated to this day, which are are are false.
- [25:13]
B
Today's episode of Detox Retox is brought to you by Progressive Insurance. You chose to hit play on this podcast today. Smart choice. Yes, Progressive loves to help people make smart choices. That's why they offer a tool called Auto Quote Explorer that allows you to compare your Progressive car insurance quote with rates from other companies so you save time on the research and can enjoy savings when you choose the best rate for you. Give it a try after this episode@progressive.com Progressive Casualty Insurance Company and affiliates not available in all states or situations. Prices may vary based on how you buy. If someone listening right now is already hooked and has been curious, they're psilocybin curious or just mushroom curious in general. Mdma. Like if one of your friends came to you in confidence and they said, robert, where can I safely acquire something like this? What would you tell them? If you're at liberty to say, I don't, I, I don't know, I like. Because I don't have a drug dealer, I don't have a drug dealer. I don't really do drugs anymore. But every once in a while I do want a little micro dose. Just, you know, get out of my rigidity. Like I just, it really helps me break thought patterns like we talked about earlier and work on my dusty old mind. I want. Give me give Me, the neuroplasticity, I need it. It's been feeling a little dusty up there. But what would you say to a friend if you're at liberty to say.
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A
Yeah, well, two things, two things I would address there. One is, like, just trepidation about taking it in general. And I think one of the reasons why psychedelics are having a real renaissance right now is this whole concept of microdosing is so less intimidating than people going and eating an eighth of mushrooms or taking an ecstasy tab that they bought in a parking lot. And, you know, the same thing with cannabis as well. You know, people have one negative experience, they remember not having a good time in college, and they're like, well, that's not for me. Then when you come, when you, when you proposition them with, well, you can take like 1/40 of what you took in college. It's not going to change anything except maybe brighten your mood, you know, have you have more time, more fun playing with your kids or doing your normal activities, like you say, talking with your spouse, talking with your partner. So I think finding someone that has measured amounts in smaller amounts is one way to get over your fear of it. And even if you have a gummy or a chocolate or something that is more than you're willing to try for the first time, you could always take half of the gummy, a quarter of the gummy. I remember when we used to make Rice Krispie Treat edibles. You know, most people would eat the entire Rice Krispie treat. My grandma would eat one kernel of the rice, the puffed rice, you know, which probably I didn't even have like a fraction of a milligram in it.
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B
She was a pioneer in the microdosing industry.
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A
But, you know, as far as where to find it, I say, you know, always go to your community. If you have a community, you know, that's where, where the, the most trusted sources can be. If you don't have a community in your neighborhood, my favorite online community is Reddit. If you go to psychedelic Reddit, mdma, Reddit, you find any, any subject that you're looking for, you'll find people that are, you know, talking up brands and talking about their experience with brands, and then also, you know, lots of, lot of citizen scientists that are taking brands off the shelves at stores and testing them themselves. You know, you don't have to be a journalist to be able to go and buy some of these products that are being sold in smoke shops and, and people are sending them straight to the lab, too. So that's that's another way of, of being super extra cautious if you, if you wanted to be. But yeah, Reddit is always where online community if you don't have one locally.
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B
Because I think that's probably one of the biggest things standing between someone who is curious about microdosing is just acquisition, finding it safely. I mean, I remember back in the day going to my first big music festival in Miami, Ultra. We just bought ecstasy from strangers and we didn't think anything of it, but it was a different time. And fentanyl wasn't rampant in, in, in America and the world around us. So it felt like, you know, one love, you know, we didn't have a care in the world. Also, I was young and dumb. Now I'm old and dumb, but less dumb. But yeah, I just, I, I, well, I had, I talked to a few friends before I did this episode who have never partook in, you know, MDMA or ecstasy or even mushrooms. And I think, yeah, their biggest fear is just acqu. In a safe manner.
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A
Yeah, I hear that all the time. And, and that's, that's where we're going. Right. So there's the, what I'm writing about the business of psychedelics. One major difference between cannabis and pharmaceutical and, and psychedelics is the interests of pharmaceutical companies. And major companies are investing billions of dollars into creating new novel compounds that act similar to psychedelics. And a lot of times they're looking for ways to remove the psychedelic effects so it could still have the regenerative properties on your brain. Maybe you'll be able to prevent stuff like Alzheimer's and dementia, which is super common now. And so I'm all for it. If a pharmaceutical company can figure out how to stop or prevent dementia and Alzheimer's. You know, I've had plenty of family members go through that and it's not pretty. But, but because there's so much research going into it and so much money going into it now, you're creating a massive demand. You know, everybody from Oprah to Joe Rogan is talking about their psychedelic experience on complete opposite sides of the political spectrum. And I've said, like, if, if psychedelic mushrooms were running for president, winning a landslide, you know, we can't, we can't agree on, on Republican or Democrat, but, but this is one thing that, that people are agreeing about. I think the microdosing is definitely take some, some of the risk and fear out of it. And then also, yeah, having cannabis be that real gateway drug. You know, I know for me, the first time I was Smoking weed. I was just like, wow, people have really been lying to me about this. This is awesome.
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B
The propaganda.
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A
Not gonna go attack my neighbor or, you know, whatever the propaganda said. And so I think that was a, you know, was a real eye opener. And it, it has been a gateway drug in that regard that it's opening the gate for. For psychedelics and, and MDMA and, and. And more fun stuff that adults should be able to. To have a safe place to access.
- [32:38]
B
I love that you said safe place. I'll say it again for the listeners. I feel like there's a. There's bound to be a few people listening who maybe tried. Maybe they tried edibles once or they did unintentionally did a heroic dose of mushrooms and they had a horrible experience and. And they never tried it again. And I totally understand that. Why would you go back to something that caused you to have like an existential meltdown? But microdosing it, just for whatever it's worth to the listeners is really much more mindful. And like you said, for me, it really just helps me be more present. I'm not spending as much time in the past or the future. And yeah, it helps me appreciate all the little things in life when I do. And this is a fully functional microdoses I do, I can still do all my daily tasks, get all my work done when not hallucinating. Not that there's anything wrong with that. Guys, if you want to hallucinate and have fun and hit a rave, I'm all for it. But I'm at the mindful microdosing stage in my life and I'm a big advocate for it. Have you done any deep dives into psilocybin and its application in preventing addiction? I've read a lot of studies about possibly helping curb alcohol addiction, smoking cessation, also, like just ptsd. Like we talked about behavioral addiction, stuff like that. Have you done deep dives into any of that stuff?
- [34:05]
A
Absolutely. I mean, there I write about the studies that are. That are going on about it and the drugs that are following the same sort of protocol that are necessary for approving any drug in this country, which is pretty rigorous. And then also just going to these conferences. That's what really got me into it. You know, I was in cannabis at an early stage and I was inspired. You know, not only do I just like, you know, getting high, but I felt like it was like biggest activist movement of our generation as just a bunch of people in different states and different municipalities, one at a time, spending so much time and effort to petition their, their local and state governments to change this. These laws that have been wrong for 100 years. And so in the early days of cannabis, that was, like, really the inspiration that got me into it. And now with mushrooms, too, a similar sort of thing. You know, the first, like, mushroom conference I went to, I had no idea what I was going to be walking into. I thought it was just going to be people, you know, selling chocolate bars just like a bazaar. But it was really, it was like a scene from Hamilton or something, like just a bunch of revolutionaries sitting around, like, plotting, how are we going to. Are we going to change these laws in Denver, man? You know, how are we going to. How are we going to change the world? And, and then, you know, experientially, you talk to people and there's. I always joke, there's. There's no small talk in mushrooms. You know, I meet people and just like, hey, I'm. I'm in. I'm into mushrooms. What do you know about it? People will start crying. They'll start telling me about their, Their, their body dysmorphia or whatever they got over. Because I think that presence that you're talking about with, with psychedelics and then the neurological childlike mind that you're. You're being brought to, it's really presenting you in that moment. This addiction that I have, nicotine, sex, you know, alcohol, whatever, it is, like, that's a choice. And really, that's what, that's what it is. And it's so much easier said than done. Say, oh, yeah, smoking nicotine is a choice. Right. And just, Just throw it away. We all know it's. It's super addictive. But psychedelics are so powerful in your mind and can bring you such awareness that, that they are just a shortcut to finding out these things, these ultimate truths about, I think, you know, life and the universe and, and you know, everything.
- [36:56]
B
Yeah. And also a great alternative for. We've talked about this before on the podcast, but for people who are starting to feel a little bit like zombies on their pill regimen, the cocktail of SSRIs and benzos they're having to take to balance it out on a daily basis, which are effective and they do work wonders. But I have a lot of people that I know personally that are looking for some more natural alternatives. And, yeah, I'm just fascinated by all the, the breakthroughs and in the trials that are happening right now. It feels like a. It feels like an exciting time in this industry. Yeah, yeah.
- [37:33]
A
I mean, yeah, marijuana and psych. Psychedelic entrepreneurs have to have to thank the pharmaceutical companies for doing such a terrible job and killing so many damn people that, that now it's become pretty mainstream to think, like, maybe we shouldn't trust them and look for something alternative.
- [37:51]
B
I was gonna ask you more about your company, Micro Boost. You. You answered a lot of the questions up top about functional mushrooms versus psychedelic. But, yeah, so, like, say, I think I got the brain boost once today. I forgot what they were called. I ordered them today. So from a practical standpoint, if there's a timeline, how long do you think, on average, does it take to start seeing the effects of taking it, the positive impact of taking supplemental functional mushrooms?
- [38:22]
A
I mean, I think with a cup of our Micro Boost coffee that's got 3,000 milligrams and one serving, the. The pills that you've got are two pills for a 3,000 milligram serving. Within. Within one day, I. I start to. To feel it. I mean, within. Within 30 minutes of. Of taking a coffee, I feel like I have. I have more energy, my brain is sharper. I go out and it's my. It's my entrepreneur fuel for every day. I got to go into meetings, I got to go work on whatever I need. And I need. I need focus and I need endurance. And so, you know, I was in. I've been in every single kind of supplement we manufacture for all sorts of different brands here. And CBD was one that was like, probably the fastest boom to bust industry I ever saw. And I think a lot of that was people saying, like, well, you gotta. You gotta take it for a month or two months and until you really start to notice the effects, or some people say, like, you won't even really notice the effects until you stop taking it. Then you'll, you know, and. And I'm a big believer in cbd. I think it really does work, but I think that the expectations were really mismanaged, you know, and, and the way that companies were marketing it, it was like you're gonna jump out of your wheelchair or something after taking the tincture.
- [39:52]
B
Yeah, it's. I mean, listen, they don't work overnight. They're not magic, but they're tools, right? They're tools to help you as you work through whatever forms of therapy you're working through. And yeah, they're just so.
- [40:05]
A
So one thing that that experience really taught me because I worked with, with hundreds of CBD brands and, and saw thousands more come and go. One thing that I want to, like, educate people about in the functional mushroom business or in the functional mushroom as a, as a consumer is that there's two different types of functional mushrooms and it's, and they're, I, I, along with multiple other brands have petitioned the FDA for clarity and labeling about this. So this is a little bit of an explanation. Okay, so when functional mushrooms grow, right, you take a starchy substrate and that's what you inoculate with the spores of the mushroom. So it'll usually be rice or corn or some sort of starch. And that's what the root system of the mushroom is going to form. And that's called mycelium. And when the mycelium forms throughout the substrate, then out of that substrate grows the, the fruiting body and that's the, the stem and cap or you know, the pom pom looking thing in, in the case of lion's mane. So we're Micro Boost. And if you're, you know, a consumer and you're looking for, you know, trying a new functional mushroom product, I would always look for stuff that is labeled using fruiting bodies or fruiting body extracts only. So I did a article about this for Rolling Stone and, and, and got really into the research and I thought, okay, maybe there's, so there's, there's companies that will take like ours, we take that fruiting body, we make extract out of it. That's what we put in our products. There are other companies, a lot of them are really big. They take the fruiting body or they're, you know, the companies that are growing it are selling the fruiting body for much more to companies like Micro Boost. And then they take the starchy substrate that has mycelium in it and, and they pulverize that and they sell that as mushrooms. So fruiting Body, when we say, you know, there's a gram of mushrooms in it, that's made from the mushroom. When you say there's a gram of mushrooms and it's the starchy material, that's rice, that's corn, that's all filler that you're paying for that they're selling on a one to one basis. And so I thought like, man, you know, this mycelium has some benefits to it. What could the difference be? Is it like 5 to 1, mycelium versus fruiting body? 10 to 1? My research I found is closer to 500 to 1.
- [42:43]
B
Wow.
- [42:44]
A
And so that is a real challenge from a business perspective to educate an entire market. And you see two products next to each other on Amazon and this says a Thousand grams of mushrooms for $20. And our product next to it says, you know, 400 grams of mushrooms for $20. They think, oh, well, thousand must be, must be getting more bang for your buck. But that's 1-500th the strength of, of a fruiting body mushroom. So, so what we're working on is, is petitioning the FDA is like, hey, you know, if you want to use mycelium, great. You know, just market as mycelium. Don't confuse the customer. Because what I would hate to happen is similar to cbd, people take these, these myceliated oats prost. They don't really feel anything from it. And then they just kind of swear off functional mushrooms altogether.
- [43:41]
B
Okay, well, thank you, because that was gonna be one of my next questions. Any red flags to look out on the labels for functional mushrooms? And you've just answered everything, so thank you very much for that. For breaking that down. 500 to 1 is insane. I'm gonna remember that forever. So thank you. You want fru the label, right?
- [43:59]
A
Rooting bodies. Yeah. And a lot of these companies, you know, won't even disclose it. If you look maybe on the fine print, you'll see in the ingredients made with myceliated oats. But a lot of times it's just obfuscating from the consumer what is actually in there. And so, yeah, that's, that's a real trouble with, with the supplement industry in general. It's just CBD and, and mushrooms. Right. As people in different qualities of stuff. And then, you know, claiming that, that it's all kind of one to one in, in value, especially the way things are broken down on, on Amazon or on the shelf at the grocery store.
- [44:40]
B
Right.
- [44:40]
A
It breaks it down to. It's $0.19 per per ounce or whatever your, your commodity is.
- [44:47]
B
Yeah, I, I'm, I'm a huge advocate for the functional mushrooms. I've been taking them a long time. And I like some of the words you used earlier. Again, like you said, sharpness and entrepreneur fuel. Like, they really, they really do start to make a difference if you take them on like you said. For me, it was like the first time I started taking them because I've been taking them for a few years now. I noticed in like a week. And it wasn't like a magic cure. I wasn't. All my problems weren't solved, but I just, I don't know if I start. If there was maybe moments I made content. Yeah. I. All of these different things have. Just when you do them mindfully and respectfully, have just had such a positive impact on my little old life and I just wanted to spread the word, a little gospel, a little positive gospel with you. And yeah, man, this has been cool. I don't want to take up too much your time. It's so informative. I could chat about this for hours. But thank you, Robert. Thank you so much. Can we plug your. Anything you want to plug. By the way. By the way, it's micro. I'm going to spell it for you guys. It's Microboost. It's M Y C R O Boost. Microboost.com, right?
- [46:03]
A
Yeah, microboost.com you can find us on Instagram and TikTok. My Rolling Stone writing, you can find just Robert Johnson. If you search Robert Johnson, Rolling Stone, you'll probably find the guitarist that sold his soul to the devil at the crossroads. But if you put Robert, John, Rolling Stone mushrooms, you'll find all the articles I've written both about functionals and psychedelics. And yeah, thanks a lot for putting me on, Tom. It's guys like you that are educating people and I think demystifying it and taking a lot of the fear out of these great, these great substances available to us, you know, from, from God. After all, you know, it's not, I always, always said that to, to my mom or whatever, when she said marijuana was bad for me, I was like, take it up with God, mom, you know?
- [46:59]
B
Well, I appreciate you so much. And by the way, if you do go on Reddit, maybe don't Google my name along with Reddit. I don't. I did a TV show for a long time. I don't know if you watch reality tv, Robert, but I never had the best reputation on Reddit. Reddit. Why are you guys so harsh on me? Anyways, that's, that's for another episode. But I appreciate, I appreciate your wisdom, your time, your energy and man, it's so cool chatting with you. I'd love to hang out sometime in la and yeah, man, thank you so much, Robert.
- [47:30]
A
Thanks, Tom. Yeah, I really appreciate you.
- [47:32]
B
Sweet. Hope you have an awesome week and I'll talk to you soon. Thanks, Robert. Well, gang, what did you think? Can you dig it? A little mindful microdose, Perhaps a little self discovery? Listen, I'm excited to see the results as more clinical trials are implemented. And yeah, we see some more practical applications. Psychedelics, mdma, other substances, marijuana, all that stuff like we talked about, man, it's, it could be a good thing. It can quiet those voices in your head haunting you, your Inner critic. You know, it can really, like. It can really just make you feel very human again, very present. And I said that a lot. But just like, hey, you know what? Let's just maybe give ourselves a break, not be so hard on ourselves. I don't actually hate myself. I actually love myself. You know what? I'm allowed to take a day off to rest and not feel guilty because hustle culture all up in my face. Whoa, whoa. Have I been chasing approval instead of meaning? Get a little introspective. Are you in? And by the way, you don't need to microdose anything to do this other ways. Meditation, exercise, breath work can be just as effective. I want to remind you guys of that. And again, none of this is medical advice. Obviously, you're listening to your Schwartz for Vanderpump Rules, so come on. But, yeah, man, it's not about, like, becoming someone all spanking, shiny, brand new. Although that would be kind of nice. It's like just remembering. I think it's about remembering who you were before your angst or anxiety or just, like, rough life circumstances before shit happened. Who you were before that kind of took over the show. That's. I love a little microdose from time to time to do that. Yeah, life can come at you quick, man. Shit happens sometimes. It's like a little financial breathing room. So many problems in life come from finances. Maybe you need a few months rent a breather to catch up on your finances. Or maybe you need to mitigate the upfront burden of the first and last month's rent plus security deposit. If this sounds something like something that could appeal to you or help you out, I want you to check out rnplcredit.com it's rent now, pay later. Rent smart, stress less. Check it out. Rent prices are insane. Life can be insane. It's expensive. Shit happens. But, yeah, check it out. Full disclosure, I do have a little stake in this company, but it's only because I believe in it. But, yeah, if this sounds appealing and you made it this far, guys, you can use, yeah, a little financial breathing room. Check it out. RNPL credit.com. all right, that's been a good one. I love you guys. All right, bye.
- [51:05]
A
Detoxification complete.
- [51:07]
B
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A
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