Devil and the Deep Blue Sea: BONUS Episode - Adam Kinzinger on Conspiracies and Courage

Hosted by Christianity Today, this bonus episode delves into the intricate interplay between political conspiracies, Christian nationalism, and personal courage through an in-depth conversation with former Congressman Adam Kinzinger. Released on July 29, 2025, this episode offers valuable insights into the tumultuous events surrounding the January 6th Capitol insurrection and the broader implications of conspiracy thinking within American Christianity.

1. Introduction to Adam Kinzinger

The episode opens with Mike Kosper welcoming Adam Kinzinger, a former Republican Congressman known for his principled stance during the Trump era. Kinzinger describes himself as a "fairly conservative, moderate on some things" (02:14) who initially aligned with traditional Republican values but found himself increasingly at odds with the party's direction in Washington, D.C. He highlights his background as a pro-union, socially conservative, and fiscally modest Republican, noting his rise as one of the youngest elected members of the House.

2. Relationship with Donald Trump

Kinzinger discusses his complex relationship with former President Donald Trump. Although he did not endorse Trump in the 2016 election and even voted for him in 2020 out of a desire to avoid political turmoil, he admits to having a "contentious" yet "good" relationship with Trump, characterized by both collaboration and criticism (04:02). Kinzinger emphasizes his commitment to maintaining personal principles despite political pressures, stating, "I didn't want to lose what made me who I was" (04:02).

3. The 2020 Election and Its Aftermath

The conversation transitions to the 2020 presidential election, where Joe Biden's victory was contested by Trump and his supporters. Kinzinger recounts his initial disbelief and concern over Trump's claims of a "stolen election." He reflects on the escalating rhetoric, noting the dangerous combination of political dissatisfaction and conspiracy theories that fueled widespread unrest (05:47). Kinzinger remarks, "I know how they're thinking," referencing his upbringing within Christian eschatological beliefs that dovetailed with the conspiratorial mindset (05:47).

4. The January 6th Capitol Insurrection

A significant portion of the discussion centers on the events of January 6th, 2021. Kinzinger provides a personal account of that day, describing the palpable fear and darkness he felt upon witnessing the insurrection. He shares his immediate actions, such as bringing his gun to the Capitol for the first time and barricading himself in his office as the situation deteriorated (13:24). A particularly poignant moment occurs when he opens his office window and feels "a darkness that I cannot describe" (16:38), underscoring the profound emotional impact of the assault on democracy.

Kinzinger critiques the revisionist narratives that emerged post-insurrection, where some Republican leaders began to downplay the severity of January 6th. He expresses frustration over the ease with which established truths were overshadowed by "a series of lies," reflecting on how this phenomenon mirrors the earlier Satanic Panic discussed in the podcast’s description (20:56). He asserts, "We have lost. We've forgotten as leaders that our job partially is actually to lead and not just to reflect what people want to get elected" (09:11).

5. Conspiracies and Christian Nationalism

The episode delves into the role of conspiracy theories like QAnon and the influence of Christian nationalist groups in shaping the events leading up to January 6th. Kinzinger critiques how religious rhetoric was co-opted to legitimize political violence, noting the pervasive use of Christian symbols and apocalyptic language among the insurrectionists (28:26). He observes, "This is the devil's greatest trick to discredit the church," highlighting the internal conflicts within Christian communities (29:55).

Kinzinger draws parallels between past and present conspiratorial thinking, referencing 1980s Satanic Panic and modern QAnon theories. He emphasizes the psychological and sociological factors driving individuals toward these beliefs, such as the search for meaning in an affluent yet spiritually barren society (30:11). He ponders, "How do you get there? You make compromises every bit of every day and you convince yourself that the compromise you made is for a good bigger cause" (23:34).

6. Personal Reflections and Faith

Reflecting on his own journey, Kinzinger discusses how his experiences during the January 6th investigations led him to deconstruct and rebuild his faith. He shares the emotional toll of losing personal relationships and grappling with the realization that some who claimed to follow Christ were complicit in undermining democracy (37:42). Kinzinger advocates for a "personal relationship with Jesus Christ" as a bulwark against the corrosive influence of political and spiritual conspiracies, urging listeners to seek truth directly from the New Testament rather than relying on flawed institutional teachings (37:42).

7. The Future of American Democracy

In concluding, Kinzinger offers a hopeful yet resolute outlook on the resilience of American democracy. He believes that history will view January 6th as a moment of shame but also as a defining point for the nation's commitment to democratic principles. He emphasizes the importance of learning from these events to prevent future erosions of democratic norms, stating, "I refuse to be the generation that America fails on" (40:16). Kinzinger underscores the necessity of upholding constitutional values and the collective responsibility to "maintain the flame of democracy" (40:16).

8. Closing Remarks

The episode ends with a heartfelt farewell from Kinzinger, reflecting on his legacy and the enduring importance of defending democratic institutions. The final excerpt of his farewell speech encapsulates his enduring belief in the principles of liberty and self-governance, condemning the shift towards violence and deceit within the Republican Party (42:09).

Notable Quotes with Timestamps

• Adam Kinzinger (04:02): "I wanted to make sure that I never lost, even though you have to compromise in some areas and keep your mouth shut sometimes. I didn't want to lose what made me who I was."

• Adam Kinzinger (05:47): "These lies out there... it's not an innocent lie. It's a lie that can really cause violence. It can cause... death."

• Adam Kinzinger (09:11): "There's going to be violence. And of course, we saw what happened on January 6th."

• Adam Kinzinger (16:38): "I felt this dark evil. I remember praying actually at that moment and almost in tears."

• Adam Kinzinger (23:34): "You can convince yourself that actually we're doing the right thing for the bigger cause."

• Adam Kinzinger (28:26): "This is the devil's greatest trick to discredit the church."

• Adam Kinzinger (37:42): "I was lazy in just taking what some pastor would say as the truth. I had to really deconstruct what I believe."

Conclusion

This bonus episode of Devil and the Deep Blue Sea provides a compelling exploration of the intersection between politics, faith, and conspiracy theories in contemporary America. Through Adam Kinzinger's personal narrative and critical analysis, listeners gain a deeper understanding of the factors that led to the January 6th insurrection and the enduring challenges faced by democratic institutions. Kinzinger's advocacy for truth, personal integrity, and unwavering commitment to constitutional values serves as a poignant reminder of the importance of leadership grounded in principle over party allegiance.

For those seeking to comprehend the darker facets of political and religious manipulation, this episode offers both cautionary lessons and inspiring calls to action.