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- [00:02]
A
Welcome to Digital Voices, where healthcare and life science leaders explore the real work behind transformation. This podcast is about people, leadership, and the conversations that move healthcare forward. Now your host, Ed Marks.
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Welcome to another edition of Digital Voices. I have the Dean, Tufts University School of Medicine, Chief Academic Officer, Tufts Medicine Chair, Board of Trustees, College of the Holy Cross. Welcome, Dr. Helen Boucher.
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A
Thank you so much for having me, Ed.
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B
Helen, we got a chance to meet. Not too long ago. I was doing a tour of Tufts University School of Medicine, and you gave us this tour, and it was just amazing. And I was blown away by a number of different things, not just Tufts itself and all the amazing clinicians we met that day. And of course, a shout out to Shafiq, Dr. Shafiq Raab, you know, my friend who's the Chief Digital Information Officer. But just the culture that you've built and just the way that everyone treated us and the way patients were being treated, I was so impressed. And I remember begging you, please, please be on my podcast, Digital Voices. So thank you again so much for being here. Helen, the most important question of all for the podcast are what songs are on your playlist? What kind of music do you like to listen to?
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A
Oh, my gosh. Well, I like to listen to a variety of types of music. So I listen to James Taylor, I listen to Andrea Bocelli, I listen to Michael Jackson, U2, the Rolling Stones. So kind of of my vintage, but quite a variety.
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B
Yeah. No, that's great. What about life? Message or mantra? Are there sort of words that guide you, words that you live by?
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A
I would say there are two. So one is just say yes. That's been taught to me all the way back from my dad and something that has served me well. Although some caveats, then. The other one is a Jesuit mantra, amdg, which means. It's a Latin phrase, and it means for the greater glory of God. And so that's something I believe in, too.
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B
That's fabulous. We also have a playlist developing of messages and mantra, and that'll definitely be a new one. So, amdg, I love that. I'm surprised I'd not heard that before, and I think that's a fabulous way to go about one's life. So before we get into some of the things about Tufts and about medical school and leadership, tell us a little bit more about yourself. Like, who are you? What's your story? Like, where. Let's start, like, where did you grow up?
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So I grew up a little bit all over, Moved around a lot as a child. My dad was in sales. I'm the oldest of five kids. Four and four years. And then a caboose baby who's 16 years younger than I, a very close Irish family. And we wound up in Fairfield, Connecticut. And then I came to college up in Worcester, Massachusetts, at Holy Cross you mentioned earlier. And that's where I met my husband.
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B
Very cool. And I'm putting two and two together. Is that like a Jesuit school? Catholic school, Right.
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It is. It's a Jesuit Catholic college that spun out of Georgetown many years ago.
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B
Oh, wow, That's. That's super cool. So let's talk about your career. What was the primary catalyst that got you into healthcare?
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A
Yeah, it's interesting. I really liked my pediatrician, and I had an unusual sort of illness as a child, but I got to know my pediatrician very well. Amazing guy, asked a lot of questions. And I knew from a pretty young age that I liked medicine. It was unusual in my family, so I was a bit of an outlier, and it didn't come easy to me, especially at the beginning. So I had to work hard to get here. But it was that young age experience that made the difference for me.
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B
Interesting. And what specialty did you also follow and become a pediatrician or what's your specialty?
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A
Well, I thought I was going to be a pediatrician. My specialty is actually in adult infectious diseases. And as I went through medical school, I was one of those people who liked everything. So I got down to the wire between surgery and medicine and decided to do medicine because I didn't want to train for so long. And the joke was kind of on me because I ended up extending my training by doing a chief residency and then doing an infectious disease fellowship and doing research. So it took me just as long.
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B
That's funny. Yeah, it is amazing, right? The influence adults can have on us when we're young and impressionable. And as this pediatrician did with you, did you ever circle back with that pediatrician and, like, they know you've become this amazing doctor and dean?
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A
Well, it's so funny that you ask, Ed, because two years ago, almost, I was going to reunion here at Tufts, to the alumni reunion, And I was looking at the list of attendees, and I saw from the 55th reunion a name, Charles Hemenway. And that was my pediatrician.
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B
Wow.
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A
So I ran into him at Reunion, and of course, he didn't know my married name, but we had a great reunion. And he is just a wonderful guy. He's one of the first people. He went to Fairfield University as an Undergrad. And he was one of the first people from Fairfield to go to Tufts Medical School. So it was really great to see him again. And I've kept up with him. He's a great guy. Yeah.
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B
I'm sure he's very, very proud of the professional that in person that you've become. So you also got into academics, which we're going to touch on here in a bit. How did that happen? How did you get engaged with academics?
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A
Well, that started from my training in medicine. You know, medical school is important. Residency is very important. And I trained at the Beth Israel Deaconess Hospital here in Boston. And my boss and mentor was a guy named Bob Mullering, who was the head of medicine. Incredible infectious disease doctor. And I had several mentors. I mean, all of them were academic. And so when I did my training in infectious diseases, it was the beginning of the AIDS epidemic. We were doing a lot of trials. I loved it. I loved the combination of taking care of patients and doing clinical trials. And in those days, the only way our patients could get access to the newly emerging therapies was to be in trials. So I understood the importance of being at that juncture, and I never wanted to leave. And then I'm a teacher at heart. I was a school teacher for two years before I went to medical school. So the education and research, along with the practice of medicine, just seemed like a great fit for me.
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B
Yeah, that's really cool. And did you ever think at some point in your journey, like, you're like, the dean of Tufts? That's a pretty big deal? You know, it may not be that big to you, Helen, because you've been there for so long, and maybe it's just kind of a natural thing, but, I mean, as an outsider, I'm telling you, it's a big deal. Did you ever think to yourself, hey, someday I might become a dean of a medical school?
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A
You know, I did not. And I had a very nonlinear career path. So early in my career, I worked in the industry. We moved to England for my husband's job, and I ended up doing trials with Pfizer Pharmaceuticals, which is a great opportunity. And I learned how to. How to manage big groups of people in that job.
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Yeah.
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But then I was very happy enjoying my job. I've had a number of jobs here at Tufts, and I was very happy doing infectious disease and working with my colleagues when this opportunity presented itself. But it was nothing I ever thought I would do.
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B
Yeah, that's. That's pretty cool. So for those who don't know can you just give us sort of that high level? Like, what does a dean do? I mean, it sounds impressive. It is impressive. But what is like the two or three biggest responsibilities?
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A
Yeah, so the, you're, you're like the CEO of the med school. Right. And so my job is to empower my team to be able to deliver on our mission. So that means being able to support all the researchers, all of our faculty. Right. The faculty who do cutting edge research, the faculty who teach our students, the staff who make it all possible. That's really my job is to help them. And so that includes things like fundraising. It includes a lot of administrative work and meetings and working with a lot of different groups.
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B
Yeah, I'm sure it's part politician. Right. Like most leadership roles. But yeah, in healthcare, as we know, in academics as well, it's a little bit sharper there. They also added the title of chief academic officer. So what, again, sort of, what's the high level on that? What does that entail?
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A
Right. Well, so that's like a second job. So one job is the dean of the medical school. The other job is the chief academic officer of our health system, Tufts Medicine. And so in that role, I'm in charge of education and research in the health system. We are two separate companies. So the work I do is very similar. It's to help people to be able to deliver on the education and research mission. But they, they're employed in a different entity. We're partners. And my job is to help bring us together to really make our impact greater in the areas of research and education.
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B
Yeah. So you sort of have this joint appointment. Do you have peers that are like that as well, that cross both?
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I do. And it's kind of a model that's, that's developing. In most cases, the medical school owns the faculty practice and the hospital is separate. So every structure is a little bit different. But Brown has just gone to a similar model. So their dean, Mukesh Jain, is also the chief academic officer of their health system. That's one example.
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B
Yeah. Oh, yeah, yeah. That's super interesting. It makes a lot of sense. So what is one thing that you have a long history at Tufts, so what is one thing that you're most proud of? I'm sure it's hard to get to one, but if you had to pick one, what might that be?
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A
Yeah, I'm really proud of the quality of clinical care that we deliver and that we teach our students to deliver. And I think our students, we have seven degree granting programs in the Medical school, in every case, the curriculum and the training that we deliver produces outstanding clinicians. And whether I meet alumni from a year ago or 55 years ago, they're outstanding clinicians who are making a difference in the world.
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B
What would you say the one or two of the big differences are between the time that you were a student and today's student? Like, it could be related to whatever, culture, technology, anything.
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Well, one big thing is that students today start seeing patients right away. When I went to medical school, we didn't meet a patient until towards the end of our second year.
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Wow.
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Here at Tufts, the students come in July. They start seeing patients in late August.
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B
Wow.
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So they do it in small, you know, small doses. But the connection between what they're learning and the patient at the other end starts at much earlier time. And the second part is science and technology. Right. So what the students today learn in college is beyond what I learned in medical school, if you think about the science. And then, of course, we have technology like AI that's turning everything on its head. So that's very different.
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B
Yeah. What. What is one way. You mentioned AI. What is one way that you would encourage listeners? You know, maybe there are other clinicians or maybe even tech people as well, in order to stay abreast of what's going on with AI? Like, what should they be doing? What should they immerse themselves in?
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A
It's a great question. I don't. I'm not an expert, but I think figuring out the places to follow. And I just read a great article by Dr. Wachter, who's the chair of medicine at UCSF, about some emerging data about the pitfalls of AI for patients. And it made the case that it's likely going to be easier to train AI for scientists and doctors, because we are trained to ask questions a certain way than it is for patients, because the way patients ask questions could kind of confuse the AI and get more junky answers. I thought that was really, really interesting. And I think for all of us, we're going to have to be wary of both the opportunities and the pitfalls of AI, and then in the whole area of ethics, there's just a lot there.
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B
Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's kind of a fun time, right, to be. Well, especially for you as a dean and academic officer. I mean. Oh, my gosh, for me, more of a tech bent, it's a great time to see how this will sort of transform healthcare with all the safeguards, you know, that we've already touched on. So, speaking of leadership, we talked a little bit on leadership already. What is one skill that you think is lacking in emerging leaders and maybe something that you all focus on as a result? Do you sort of see one or two things where people might need to double down on their leadership?
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A
You know, it's a great question. And I'll cite an example of where I really saw leadership, and it was during COVID I had the privilege to help with our response in the health system to Covid. And then I consulted with a lot of, like, schools from elementary schools, boarding schools, colleges, companies, you name it. And that was an example where you saw leaders, good leaders and not so good leaders. And courage is one thing that I would call out because that was an example where courageous leadership was required. In many cases, it took a lot of courage to say, we're going to make it safe enough to go back to school, to go back to work, to do what we need to do. And I saw examples where a courageous leader succeeded in a safe plan for the most complicated. A college here in Boston that's vertical, inner city, and specializes in the performing arts, singing, musical instruments, like the most dangerous things you could think of. For Covid, they succeeded in reopening, staying open, basically in letting the kids go to school. And then I saw other places where the ask was easier, but the leadership wasn't as courageous and they didn't succeed.
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B
Yeah, yeah, those are really good examples. I love that whole concept of courageous leadership. Did anything early in life, you already talked a little bit perhaps about it. You moved internationally, you were a teacher. Did anything, when you look back now, prepare you for the amazing leadership roles that you have today?
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A
Well, I'm sure a lot did. And I think I was very lucky to have my parents who were so supportive. I think the training that I received, I'm so grateful for the training that I received in medicine and infectious diseases. And there is no substitute for being well trained. And I've called on that training so many times in my career. The problems may be different. I'm not at the bedside as much anymore. Right. I'm solving other kinds of problems, but learning how to think. So my holy cross liberal arts education taught me how to think and how to. How to be a critical thinker. And then the training I had in infectious disease and medicine, those are two incredible gifts.
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B
Yeah. And you're very fortunate because you have this well rounded education. You had both the liberal arts. A lot of times we come just up through science or math and engineering, but you had liberal arts as well to marry with Your clinical training and wow, you kind of get the best of both worlds. I'm learning, I'm putting it together, all the pieces. Now that I've spent time with you and hearing your insights, it all makes tremendous sense because I think you're an amazing human as well as obviously a gifted leader. So what about something you've learned the hard way? Not everything is perfect. There's probably been a time or two that you're like, I like a mulligan or a do over. What's one or two things that you've learned that way?
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A
I would say know your audience and communicate. Communicate, communicate. So know your audience. When you are thinking about big decisions, it's so tempting to think, you know, who the two or three stakeholders are. In real life, there are probably 20. And figuring out who's going to be upset by this, who's going to be, feel affected by this, who do I need to kind of bring in. And then once a decision is made, there's the mantra that you have to say it at least seven times. I think it's probably 27 times, you know, and I've had bruises to show for getting that wrong.
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B
Yeah, that's good. You obviously have a very important job. Takes a lot of courage and it takes a lot of time and attention. What do you do to sort of recharge your batteries, gain new, fresh perspectives?
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So personally, in terms of personal things, I train, you know, exercise a couple times a week with a trainer, which I love that. Spend time with dear friends and family. Really important. And then I love to travel. So we've traveled lots of fun places and hope to do more of that.
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B
Yeah, tell, tell us one place that just pops to your mind that you traveled to recently that, that you really loved.
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Yeah, we loved Madrid. So our youngest daughter did her junior semester abroad last year in Madrid and we went, had the best time and it was just a surprise how much we loved it. And it's just a wonderful place.
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B
Yeah. Yeah. Spain. Spain's a great country. Wow. Helen, we, we covered a lot of ground here in the last few minutes. I loved your life messages. You had two. One is just say yes, we need more tech people to get that one. And then we talked about sort of your upbringing and sounds like you had amazing parents along the way. And then your catalyst, how you got into your career, the things that sort of drove you. We talked about your role as a dean, as an academic officer, how the two have come together. And it's kind of a trend going in many academic plus health systems and in medical schools. And then we talked about how things have changed over the years since you were first a student, that we spent a lot of time on leadership, learning, you know, having courage as a. As a really important thing. So is there anything we missed or anything you want to double down on? I'll give you the last word.
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A
Well, thanks, Ed. You know, one thing I didn't say that I should have said is that I'm probably the most grateful to my husband, who's been my partner and supporter for the past 32 years, and my two daughters, who are just amazing. And I think that one of the things that I like to talk to folks about is making sure you take time. Right. You were asking about what do I do to recharge, to take time, to make sure that your career never interferes with your family and your loved ones, you know, whatever you care the most about. And so I'm sorry I didn't say that sooner, but I certainly wouldn't want to end without mentioning that now.
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B
That's a great wrap up. An important lesson for all of us. We get so consumed with our identity and things that you, you know, are important, but not as important as our family and our friends. So thank you for saying that. And Helen, thank you for being a guest on Digital Voices.
- [17:39]
A
Thank you for having me. Thank you for listening to Digital Voices. We hope today's conversation sparked ideas, reflection, and connection. Subscribe on YouTube, Apple and Spotify podcasts so you don't miss an episode.