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- [00:00]
A
You talked a little bit about the faith based mission of Advent Health. How do you think that the patient and team experience is different?
- [00:09]
B
What makes healthcare so complicated is our society has never really settled on who should get it and how it should get paid for. Our teams are still highly motivated to not let that be a distraction and focus on the patients in front of us and build programs and services that really help people get the things they need. So it's not enough just to address the physical issue. We let's address the mind, the body and the spirit of the person. They have more than an opportunity for a career, they have an opportunity for a calling. Welcome to Digital Voices, where healthcare and life science leaders explore the real work behind transformation. This podcast is about people, leadership and the conversations that move healthcare forward. Now your host, Ed Marks.
- [00:57]
A
Welcome to another edition of Digital Voices. Thank you for listening and watching. Thanks to you, we are top 10 in the world under tech. And the main reason is because amazing guests like David Banks, the president and CEO of Advent Health. David, welcome.
- [01:13]
B
Well, Ed, thank you. It's a pleasure to be with you today.
- [01:16]
A
Yeah, I'm really looking forward to this because we first met actually not that long ago. We were both at the HIMSS conference. At the executive conference portion of that conference. You were the keynote speaker that kicked off the entire hymns and it was just an amazing talk. And I was like, man, I really want to have David on this program. So thank you so much. And especially since you talked about cycling. And so I was like, yes, a fellow cyclist. And I thought that that was pretty cool. That was really the first time we met. But David, the most important question, maybe the second most important question I'll have today are what songs are on your playlist? What kind of music do you like to listen to?
- [01:51]
B
So if I go on just raw downloaded volume, there's three artists that will come to the top. James Taylor, Lyle Lovett, and Stevie Ray Vaughan. Those will be one of the three in the top rotation. The time we lived in Texas really brought in that Stevie Ray Vaughan element. So those would probably be one of something out of their catalogs would probably pop first.
- [02:12]
A
Yeah, those are, those are good tunes. I was trying to guess I'm wearing a Frank Sinatra shirt, but you know, next time it'll be jt. I definitely have a JT shirt as well. What about life message or mantra? Are there sort of words that sort of guide who you are and how you lead?
- [02:28]
B
You know, my wife and I are very aligned in the way we view the world and the way we view life, which is no regrets, do what's in front of you. Don't miss the opportunity to do things today that may not be available in the future. It's so we, we like to just move forward, do what's available, do what's in front of you. Kind of a no regret sort of strategy. And then the other thing that always comes through is I try to really, from a mantra standpoint, things are neither good nor bad, they just are. And so just trying to live into that sort of intentionality I find to be really helpful.
- [03:05]
A
Yeah, I love that. So tell us a little bit about yourself. Like who are you? You know, what's your story? Where did you grow up? We could start right there.
- [03:13]
B
Yeah. So I grew up in the foothills of the Sierra Nevadas in California. So our most famous sort of person to live in our area would have been Mark Twain. It was a total gold rush area. So it was a former gold mining town in the 1849 sort of era is kind of how that area got settled. But yeah, one of five kids, mom and Dad moved from LA up into the foothills in the early 50s because my dad thought LA was too crowded. So I was born and raised really in a very rural. Our Whole county had 40,000 people. Our town had one stoplight and 3,000. And there happened to be a little Adventist hospital in that town, which is. Will tie into the story later. But yeah, one of five, four older sisters, Ed.
- [03:56]
A
Wow.
- [03:57]
B
Youngest with four older sisters. So that may also kind of fill in the personality profile a little bit.
- [04:02]
A
Yeah. How did you get into cycling?
- [04:05]
B
Well, so for my dad, his seminal gift he would give all of us for our 8th grade graduations was a brand new 10 speed bike. So I watched my sisters get these new bikes and they always got Schwinn Varsity bikes, if you remember.
- [04:20]
A
Oh yeah.
- [04:21]
B
I broke the mold and went for a Raleigh Grand Prix. Very exotic. And so cycling was just in our. It's something my dad would do with us and our. And we just, we just always had bikes around and we weren't a wealthy family. And so biking is also really cheap.
- [04:37]
A
Yeah, it's funny you mentioned Schwinn Varsity. Cause I actually had that bike as well. That is, that. That's kind of funny. What about a pivotal moment in your life that fundamentally changed your trajectory?
- [04:48]
B
Yeah, I think, you know, there's. It's hard to pick one. There was one that happened for me in college where I was just kind of bouncing along and I had a social work professor who pulled me Aside and did some things for me. And one of the things she told me, she said, you know, I see more potential in you than I think you see in yourself.
- [05:08]
A
Right.
- [05:09]
B
And we're going to work together to help that come out. And she did some things for me, but it was that interaction where I'd never had anyone sit me down and just say, there's more in you than you're aware of and let's see how we unlock that. And I remember being so taken back by that and thinking, okay, let's see. And it was, it was, that was definitely an early moment. That my life was very different after. After that. Based on her intervention.
- [05:40]
A
Yeah. No, that's cool. We don't need someone like that in our lives. Let's shift a little bit to your career. Why did you choose healthcare? How did that happen?
- [05:49]
B
Well, so my mom worked at this little Adventist hospital in Sonora. And so as a kid, it was the backdrop of my growing up. We lived across the street from that hospital, so I was a total latchkey kid. Both our family did not have a lot of resources. You know, that's a fancy way of saying we were poor latchkey kid, older sisters. We all just kind of had to get through, you know, school. And so after school, I would often go sit with my mom at the hospital until she got off work. She was the switchboard operator, front desk receptionist. So I would sit in the lobby of the hospital after school from 3 to 5:30, she'd get off work and we'd go home. And so, you know, Ed, it was just in the backdrop of my growing up and it was a small little 30 bed rural hospital, but. But you see it all and then that my first job as an in. First real job as a 9th grader in high school was sweeping the sidewalks of that hospital.
- [06:48]
A
Oh, wow.
- [06:48]
B
So it was just always kind of in the ether in terms of hospitals being around.
- [06:52]
A
That's pretty cool. And did you imagine why you were sweeping the sidewalks that one day you might eventually become a CEO of the preeminent, you know, healthcare system and no country in the world?
- [07:04]
B
No. So I will tell you I did. And this is a fairly shallow assessment, but even then I thought, I'm probably not smart enough to be a doctor. So who's got the next best car in the parking lot? Cause I'm sweeping right out in the parking lot and it's the CEO of the hospital. I thought maybe I could do that. So I remember literally thinking that it's like, well, maybe that's a pathway I could think about, but very superficially, it was based on the quality of cars
- [07:28]
A
they were driving and then maybe the quality of the bikes too. Like they had a nicer cycle.
- [07:34]
B
Absolutely, absolutely.
- [07:35]
A
Which, as you know, can cost as much as maybe your first or second car.
- [07:40]
B
Absolutely. The case, in my case.
- [07:44]
A
So, Dave, you talked earlier while you're in college that this person helped you to see your potential and sort of opened up your worldview a little bit. What about in your healthcare journey when you were first starting out? Was there someone like that who helped you see more, who you could become?
- [07:58]
B
So I went on through social work school, got my MSW at University of Maryland, and I came out working in psychiatric facilities. So I got hired at an Advent Health facility in South Fort Worth, Hughley Hospital. And I was the director of this. I was a department director of the psych unit. And I just joined Advent Health. And our CEO came to me and said, you know, we do a thing within Advent Health, called our annual conference on Mission. And this is a Thursday, Friday, Saturday meeting that looks at the mission of the organization. It includes patient stories, it includes celebrating team members who have really demonstrated mission. And this was another one of those moments. I'm just a department director, but he's like, I think you have a future in Advent Health and I want you to go to this meeting.
- [08:47]
A
Wow.
- [08:47]
B
So I go to the meeting Thursday night. I hear the stories Friday. And Ed, for me, it was like, I need to be a part of this organization. That just anchored me in the mission of the organization. It so motivated me and I was so grateful because usually it was kind of C suite level people who were attending this. But he let me go as a department director, and I've never forgotten his gift to let me do that. Totally changed the way I thought about the company I wanted to be a part of and where I wanted to spend my career.
- [09:20]
A
Yeah, that just shows you the power of a great leader in both of your examples. My wife went to the near Huglie. I'm spacing out now the name of the university, but the Advent University down there.
- [09:34]
B
Yeah, yeah.
- [09:35]
A
And she went to that school and then she went to Hugli as her first job. Same timing that when I was an executive at Texas Health, we formed a joint venture with you and hugely. And so very familiar. I see it almost every day driving by because I still live in that particular area. So that's pretty cool.
- [09:51]
B
And I'll tell you, we love our partnership with Texas Health Resources. They are fantastic partners. I was just there myself earlier in the week, talking with the teams.
- [10:00]
A
Oh, cool. That's really cool. So share, we talked now about Advent Health. Share a little bit more about the organization, the mission and vision.
- [10:09]
B
Yeah. So Advent Health, based on its roots go all the way back to 1866. Right. Comes out of the sanitarium movement and was always organized around holistic care, mind, body and spirit. So clearly there's been a focus on clinical excellence, clinical innovation, what's the state of the art. But also has always had the view that you're treating people and people are part of, they have a story and they have a life they want to get back to. So it's not enough just to address the physical issue. Let's address the mind, the body and the spirit of the person, which is what undergirds our feel hole promise today. And that comes from being motivated by a Christian mission. You know, our mission is to extend the healing ministry of Christ. That's not an evangelical mission, but it is a call to care for humanity, care for evil, see where, see where there's need and move to that need. And in our case it happens to be in the healthcare context, but that still informs what we do. And that mission drives, you know, drives through the organization today.
- [11:12]
A
Yeah. No, very cool and very self evident. For anyone who's been on one of your campuses, one of the things that you talk about is this concept of going beyond borders of pragmaticism. How is that sort of actualized?
- [11:25]
B
Yeah. So you know, when you're dealing with, in my experience, when you're dealing with, in clinical situations, especially in my role now, it would be easy to average numbers, roll up your collective sort of work and you would say, you know, we're getting this right 95 times out of a hundred. Whatever. The thing is, when you're talking about finances, you can do that, you can move money around, you can, you know, but when you're talking about patient experiences, you have to get it right every time.
- [11:52]
A
Yeah.
- [11:52]
B
And pragmatically you would say, well, nine out of ten is a total A. I mean that's a great grade. Unless you're having to explain to the 10 who didn't get it why they didn't get it.
- [12:03]
A
Yeah.
- [12:03]
B
And so for me, pragmatism would say 9 out of 10 is fine. The mission says no, you got to get it right. And it's what it's in our service standards every person, every time, because it's their experience. And so it requires you to be a little bit non pragmatic to think, okay, how do I get this right, 100 out of 100 now we don't. It's hard to hit that and rarely do you ever hit it. But that's gotta be, that's gotta be what we strive for. Every patient, every time deserves clinical excellence delivered in an experience that, that is affirming to who they are as a person.
- [12:39]
A
Can you share a little bit going back to cycling and healthcare? Share a little bit perspectives on healthcare, headwinds and how to best react. Because that's one of the themes that you've spoken about. And I think you use cycling maybe as an analogy. But yeah, speak a little bit about that.
- [12:54]
B
Well, you, you know, from your own cycling experience, you know, when you hit a headwind, cycling it can just drain your soul. It causes you to just like, what am I doing out here? And what it's taught me is, is to be ready for it, to know how you're going to react in the moment and it's not going to last. So let's think about what condition we want to be in when the wind shifts. And so it does, it does speak to preparation, it does speak to how you act in the form of crisis. And one of the best examples I saw of this was our former CEO Terry Shaw. When we were in the middle of the COVID sort of just valley, he pulled up out of our op center and said, look, you guys keep running operations. We're going to come out of this and I want to go think about what position we want to be in when we come out and that we actually did some of our most important reorganization work in the middle of COVID We're going to need a better physician model. We're going to need a stronger compensation package for our team members. We're going to need a better supply chain. All of those innovations came out of really the deepest part of those Covid headwinds. And so part of it's, I think, how you handle what's going on when you're in it, but also thinking when this ends, what position do we want to be in and what key decisions should we be making right now? It's not a time to be passive. You just gotta, you gotta attack and go.
- [14:20]
A
So you talked a little bit about the faith based mission of Advent Health. How do you think that the patient and team experience is different as a result?
- [14:31]
B
Well, for the team, what we strive for is that people understand they have, they have more than an opportunity for a career, they have an opportunity for a calling. And you know, as you think about the full spectrum of the type of team members we have. I was reminded of this. One of our environmental services workers and we did a video of her. She was so compelling in her telling of her work, which was, oh no, I don't clean rooms. I actually am the front end safety leader and I care for patients and I care for our nurses. Because we're going to maintain an environment where great care can happen. And it's that sort of. Some people would think, no, I just mop floors.
- [15:16]
A
Right.
- [15:16]
B
But what she reminded us all of is, oh no, there's no casual tasks when you're dealing in healthcare. And it's that sort of opportunity we want to create for every one of our team members who want it. Some people, literally, let's be honest, some people will just punch a clock and work, always want to invite people to find that next layer of meaning in the work they do for the patients. Again, our faith based mission is not evangelizing. It informs the value we place on the person in front of us. So what I'm hoping they experience is a team that is clinically excellent is managing their experience, but also feels that they're being cared for. People who value them as a person, not just the 55th person who's walked through our ER that day. They may not know why we do it. They don't. We don't lead with our mission externally. That's internally. What we lead with externally is our promise of feel whole. Yeah, that's what we're hoping they experience. They may not even know why we do it. But I'm hoping they walk away feeling like, man, I felt really holistically cared for in that experience. So that's what we're hoping they experience.
- [16:29]
A
When it comes to leadership, you emphasize this missional leadership concept. Can you share more about that?
- [16:34]
B
Yeah, well, it goes right to that issue that in our construct, our CEOs of our facilities, regions, divisions also carry the title of Chief Spiritual Officer. And what that means is they're responsible to develop a culture that allows their team members to find the deepest meaning in their work and deploy the operations and systems that allow patients to have those feel whole moments. And you know, Ed, the challenge with feel whole moments is it's the patient that decides if they've had it. We took a little bit of inspiration from Disney because if you understand how Disney and I do just a little, I'm not a Disney expert, but you know, they talk about these magical moments and they don't know what it is. It could be you with your grandson looking at something, you know, a character. And that was it for you. For another family, it could be something completely different. Feel home moments are defined by the end user. And we want our teams attentive and sort of in the moment enough to know that says, oh, this is what matters to Ed. Ed wants to get a phone call into his wife before, you know, 5 o' clock to let her know he's okay. If that's the most important thing, that's what we want to index to. And there's no sort of rote textbook that would have told us that. Right. So you gotta have people that are highly attentive and in tune to. What does Ed need in this moment? What's he trying to get done? What will help him feel whole in a way that he wants?
- [18:07]
A
Well, I can tell you, David, from everyone I've met before at Advent Health, one of my best friends, Brent Snyder, they're truly missional in the way that you described. So it's not just, not just theory. I've seen it in your people. That's pretty cool. What about your personal fate? Like, how do you incorporate your faith into your leadership?
- [18:27]
B
Yeah. So for me, it's funny, I was talking with our team the other day. I'm not a real charismatic or effusive person in that space. You're not going to see me at church leading a praise team. You're not going to see me running up and down the aisles. But for me, and it's part of my social work background as well, for me, it informs the way I want to see people and the fact that we want to convey deep regard for humanity and for humans that have need. My favorite story is really the Good Samaritan, this idea of. And what I like about that story is other people saw the need and crossed over and went the other direction. I want our organization, I want our leadership to see that need and move to that need. And to me, that's an applied version of a spirituality that I think translates well into healthcare. Again, it's what drew me to social work as well. It's very applied. You're there to help people and we want that help to be tangible and to be the natural bias of the organization. How do we help you? Right. That should be the impulse. And for me, that comes from that missional. That's a missional drive.
- [19:36]
A
Yeah, it's a great example. Can you share a time? Because, you know, we all have personal beliefs and you have a deep Christian faith and yet and a great mission and vision of the organization. Yet there's going to be times where the headwinds or otherwise something happens that may, there may be a key decision that conflicts with the personal beliefs. Have you ever run into such a thing and how did you handle it?
- [19:58]
B
Yeah, so, so this one happened before I worked at Advent when, when Janice and I moved to Texas, I got hired by a for profit, freestanding psych hospital. And I'd worked in psych before and I was ready to do it and I was hired to be a program, program director. And I was a little naive to the ways of for profit healthcare. And so I'm the social worker on the unit. I have all the patients, the discharge dates, and we go to our morning admin admission and discharge meetings. So the CEO looks at me and says, okay, David, who do you have on your list? I said, here's our patients and here's when they were admitted. And, and then he said, well, what's their insurance? I said, well, they have this insurance which covers 60 days. So then he goes down to his thing, goes out and puts a discharge date out, 60 days. And I said, well, we don't, I said, sir, respectfully, we don't know that he needs 60 days. He goes, no, no, he has 60 days of insurance. His discharge date is 60 days from now. And I remember, you know, Ed, I just sat back and thought, oh, I have fallen into something I didn't fully appreciate.
- [20:59]
A
Yeah.
- [21:00]
B
Then I looked around and I was new, young in my career and I looked at people who had been in that system three, four, five years and I thought, if I stay, I'm going to be just like them. I, I, you can't swim in the, in the, in the water and not get wet.
- [21:16]
A
Right.
- [21:16]
B
And so for me, that experience, and I wrestled with that for a year because I also had this naive belief that I couldn't leave the job that I just got right. It looked bad on my resume. So I wrestled with that for a year and the minute I could hit the eject button, I did. And that, that taught me, you cannot put finances ahead of patient need. Now we need solid financial practices. But that was just blatant that. It's like, I can't, I can't be here. I can't do this kind of healthcare. That's also what drew me to Advent because I never encountered that when I got onto the nonprofit side.
- [21:51]
A
Going back to your upbringing, David, was there something your parents made you do as a kid? And maybe you rolled your eyes a little bit, but now you look back and like that Was pretty good. I'm glad I did it.
- [22:02]
B
One of them. So you gotta understand, my parents, born. Both Born and raised in LA around 1930, both high school graduates, never got any further education than that. So my dad was a truck driver for many years. He and my mom both insisted on education. It's like, you are not done with your education until you're done with college. And in a small country town, a lot of times what you see is people go to high school, they graduate, they get jobs, they get, you know, they get a pickup and you're. And as a kid you're like, man, that's gotta be the way to do it. My parents were just, you are not done with your education until you're done with college. They did not even care what I took. And at the time I thought that was a little bit odd. But then I realized, well, they had no college. He had no point of reference other than. And my dad would always say, if you can work with your head and not your back, do it. And now he was clear. David, there's no shame in hard work. And we all worked hard. I mean, we, you know, I'd paper routed in fourth grade, I pulled weeds, did gardening, all that sort of stuff. But he said, if you have the option to work with your brain instead of your back, take it. And he goes, the only way that's going to really happen is if you get education. And again, they didn't really know what they were pushing us to. And then my mom said, and you're not allowed to get married until you finish college after. And they didn't care who you married, how you married. It's just like, get your education done and then take on other life things. And at the time I thought, man, they're pretty dogmatic about this. But I was pretty compliant as a kid and through high school. And so, but Ed, that advice has served me and my four older sisters so, so well. So for two high school graduate parents, you. We have doctorates, graduate degrees, all advanced educational, professionally driven careers from two parents who only went as far as high school because of their just insistence on you got to get an education.
- [24:00]
A
We have a lot of commonalities for sure, and that's definitely one of them. Where, where my parents were the same way and there were seven of us and we all went on with advanced degrees and, and there's something to that. Someday I'll have to do a little research on that because I found a lot of people like a lot of people in that situation. So I have to ask David because you know, any cyclist that's listening. Yes. Is going to be. Is he going to ask about what kind of bike, what kind of bike does David prefer? What kind of bike does David ride?
- [24:26]
B
So right now I. A couple years ago I decided to come off the road and I was always a Trek guy. So I had a Trek project, one I rode for years. It's now sitting on my trainer and, and I built a Wheeler Jenna Italian frame. I built a gravel bike that is. Can hold up on the road for my aggressive, more gravel rides. I built a Salsa Fargo titanium frame and that's the one we use for heavier duty bike packing up in Canada and other places. But when I'm doing more trail riding or light gravel riding, I ride my Jenna. And it's. You're right, I spent too much on it. It was, it was much more than my first car, about 10 times more than my first car. That also tells you how bad that first car was. But yeah, so for. For me that's. Those are the, the. The two bikes I ride most. A. A salsa and my will yard.
- [25:23]
A
Oh man. When I, when I come down your way someday I'll. I'll let you know. Maybe you'll take me out on. On some trails. That'll be a lot of fun.
- [25:30]
B
We have a great loop. I'll take you on.
- [25:33]
A
So Dave, we. We covered a lot of ground. We talk about songs on your. You know, how we first met at Hymns and then JT and Lyle Lovett and Stevie Ray Vaughan. And we do have a Spotify playlist and we'll add, if we don't already. I don't think we have any. Lyle. Love it. We'll add some. And then we talk about your life message, really about living with no regrets. Don't push anything off, you know, that you can accomplish today because you never know, right? Our time is finite. And then we talked about growing up and your parents sound like, you know, salt of the earth type of people. Raised you super well and your sisters. And then we talked really about a couple people in your life that helped, you know, open your eyes to what was possible, gave you some vision and encouragement, how important that is. And we talked about your career and how. How you moved from social work into ultimately your role as a CEO. And then we talked a lot about Advent Health and just established in 1866 and all about in the differentiator. Right. Compared to most organizations, the mind, body and spiritual. And then we talked a lot about how that manifests itself both from a patient Experience point of view as well as a team point of view, just what, what makes you different. And then we talked about cycling and headwinds and things like that, which was pretty cool. And then really a lot about leadership. And I love the fact that your CEOs are also the chief spiritual officers and they create this culture so people can find meaning in their work. It's so awesome. Makes me want to jump back in, you know, and come apply for a job.
- [26:52]
B
Thank you, Ed. Come on.
- [26:55]
A
So, super, super. What did I miss, David? Or is there anything you want to double down on? I'll give you the last word.
- [27:01]
B
No, I just think what I feel fortunate to be able to do, even with all the swirl inside of healthcare cost and politics and what makes healthcare so complicated is our society has never really settled on who should get it and how it should get paid for. It's all patchwork solutions. Going back 50, 60 years, I'm still, and our teams are still highly motivated to not let that be a distraction and focus on the patients in front of us, the communities in front of us, and build programs and services that really help people get the things they need. And so to me, that's just really motivating. I, I, it's, it's how I want to spend my time and I'm, I just feel so fortunate to, to be able to work with 100,000 people. We get to inside of Advent Health across our communities, from big metro markets like Tampa to the most rural places you've seen, like Clay County, Kentucky. It's all meaningful and it all counts and we're motivated to get it right and all the, you know, across that full range.
- [28:06]
A
David, you're a great leader, avid health, great organization. Thank you for all that you do in serving the communities where you serve
- [28:12]
B
well, Ed, thank you. And come to Florida and bring your bike and I've got a great 50 mile ride we can go on.
- [28:19]
A
All right, I'm going to take you up on that. I'll be there someday.
- [28:25]
B
Thank you for listening to Digital Voices. We hope today's conversation sparked ideas, reflection and connection. Subscribe on YouTube, Apple and Spotify podcasts so you don't miss an episode.