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DGTL Voices with Ed Marx
Transformation Is Not Always About the Technology (ft. Ashley Beecy)
00:29:05
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- [00:00]
A
Transformation is not always about the technology. I think some people get confused on that.
- [00:04]
B
I don't see it slowing down. I think we just need to kind of keep up with it and stay focused on how do we not lose sight of the impact statement?
- [00:12]
A
What questions are your leaders asking?
- [00:15]
B
What is the simplest technology to get us to where we need to be? It's an incredible time for us to think as a nation about technology and technology and healthcare. We need people that understand medicine and understand technology and the intersection of both, because that's really how we're going to kind of move the whole field forward. Welcome to Digital Voices, where healthcare and life science leaders explore the real work behind transformation. This podcast is about people, leadership, and the conversations that move healthcare forward. Now your host, Ed Marks.
- [00:54]
A
Hey, welcome to another episode of Digital voices. Super excited. Dr. Ashley Bisi is with us. Ashley, welcome to Digital Voices.
- [01:04]
B
Ed, thank you so much for having me here today.
- [01:07]
A
I'm super excited for a number of reasons. One is we have this very common background in terms of a lot of friends in the industry doing amazing things and things that we'll talk about that you've done and are currently doing at Sutter. And really we just kind of met through this whole network mishmash of all these different people we know, whether it's Sutter or back in New York City. So it's going to be amazing. And I'm so, so glad to, to have this engagement with you on such a really relevant topic. But before we get there, Ashley, the most important question that I ask on every podcast is what songs are on your playlist?
- [01:43]
B
You know, I'd have to say that my family, we share a music playlist, and I, I go to the most frequently played. And so between my kids, my husband, and myself, it can range from K pop in Taylor Swift all the way to current pop. And I even throw in some of the music that I listened to growing up with my family. Some. Some 70s throwbacks by Meatloaf and Van Morrison. So it's, it's quite an eclectic playlist.
- [02:12]
A
Yeah, that's cool. And so my shirt's appropriate. I'm wearing Led Zeppelin shirt. So, Speaking of the 70s, what about life message and mantra? Are there sort of words that guide you or words that you live by?
- [02:24]
B
You know, I grew up with my, my father always telling me there is. He's never seen a Brinks truck in a funeral procession. And I don't know if that's the, the deep mantra you're looking for, but I always interpreted that as really prioritize relationships and people and connections you're making and enjoy what you're doing is the driving factors in, in your life.
- [02:46]
A
I know, I, I love that. And I'm going to add that. Never seen a Brinks truck in a funeral. That's the first time that anyone has mentioned that because we are curating. Just like we do have our own Spotify playlist for all the music that is recommended or people are listening to from our guests. We are also working on this list of everyone's mantra, and that's definitely the first time I've heard that one. It's awesome. I love that. So tell us a little bit about who you are. Like, what is your story? Where did you grow up? Everything that you want to share, we want to hear.
- [03:19]
B
Gosh, you know, I am actually from Cape Cod, Massachusetts. You know, I. When I tell people that, sometimes the first question I get is, wow, people live there year round. Yes, they do. I grew up there. It's a wonderful place to, to grow up by the beach. And, you know, I think growing up, it was just a wonderful time. It was the time where you'd go outside and, and ride your bike and be told to come home before it's dark and have the autonomy and independence to be creative. And I, I always say play in the dirt, you know, because I think it's a, an opportunity that maybe doesn't always exist now. So I loved, I loved where I grew up and being on the beach. My first job was actually as a lifeguard. So it's kind of my first exposure to caring for people and really understanding what that meant, to have that level of responsibility. It was a great intro to the workforce. To start on the beach.
- [04:16]
A
Was there a pivotal moment in your life that fundamentally changed your trajectory?
- [04:21]
B
Gosh, you know, there's a lot of special moments. If I have to think about it, I would go back probably even to the seventh grade. And that may, you know, be a unique thing that people would go that far back into their, their history. But I had this math teacher, and I think our teachers actually play really important in the direction our lives take. But so engaging. Would give us this list of problem problems, logic problems every week. And I would look forward to it. Like, it was something that I found very exciting. And one of the problems was just a square on a piece of graph paper, and it was how many squares are here? And so most people just, they take the big square and then they count all the little graph paper squares in between. And I actually created a formula for calculating all the squares in between that. And it was. It was a unique opportunity for me to realize this was something that I wanted to gauge in further problem solving, math, science. And that teacher really kind of led me in that direction early.
- [05:23]
A
Yeah, isn't that cool? I mean, the influence that our teachers have or things that happen in our youth, that's why we asked the question, you know, that really set the stage for where we're headed. So that's pretty cool. So now you're like the chief AI officer at Sutter, one of the premier healthcare organizations, not just in our country, but I think globally. So I want to talk a little bit about your career because you didn't start off as a physician and doing all this AI stuff, so you actually flourished at Citi and in finance. What was that like? And how is that sort of background helping you today?
- [05:59]
B
Yeah, you know, I think it goes back to the mantra too. It's following your passions. And I don't think it was a. It's. It hasn't been a direct trajectory, but it's been one that's taken. Taken me along the course of my interests. And so, you know, out from undergrad, being a computer systems engineer, I actually worked at IBM doing circuit design. I was very technical, and I love the technical nature, but I really wanted to work with people more, which led me to take the job at Citi, which is. Which was more in product management and software development for the operational risk group that they had. And I think through that experience, I learned things that we don't often learn in medicine. So my, my career was backwards. Right. I worked in industry and then medicine before, you know, other people often switching it the other way. And I learned how to work in a very large, complicated matrix organization, which actually helps me now with what I do. Right. It supports me in thinking through the change management. How do you. How do you roll out a product across a very large organization and get people to adopt it? How do you build it into a workflow? And so those fundamental concepts I learned early way back city. But I found that, you know, technology and financial services, it wasn't really what was driving me. Right. What was driving me and exciting to me is tech, the application of technology in healthcare. And that's where I really pivoted and decided to go to go into medicine. And, and Citi said, hey, you know, I. We really want you to continue the work you're doing. And so I actually worked while I went to medical school, which was a challenge, but certainly supported myself financially and Helped me just build that experience over time.
- [07:41]
A
Yeah. I mean, that is incredible. You know, the fact that, yeah, you're working and you're in finance in New York City, I presume. And, and then you go to med school. I mean that, that's pretty. And then you already mentioned you have family and just life, it's just, just busy. Like what was there, what was, is, was there anything that you learned, like help you manage the life like that? Because I imagine people listening are like, man, how did, how can you, how can I do something like that?
- [08:09]
B
You know, I, Everyone needs a support system.
- [08:12]
A
Yeah.
- [08:13]
B
So I think having the right people around you, whether it's, you know, my family, my in laws, my husband, we have a wonderful caregiver who's been with our family for the last 14 years. And so really surrounding myself with the support system because especially when you, when I went from typical work hours and financial services into medicine, medical training is quite demanding. Right. It's a six day work week. The hours are, are not standard. You can't just sign out when a patient's sick or becomes critically ill. And so you really need to, to have that support system. And you know, we always talk about work, life, balance. I've looked at it as more of a, a juggling episode in the sense that we may always have a couple things that we're, we're, we feel solidly in control of at one time. We just kind of rotate it fast enough to really allocate our time to what's important in, in that moment. And it, and it has to, it has to fluctuate because there's a lot of demands in our life.
- [09:14]
A
Yeah, no, that's, that's well said. So then you're at, at nyp. You're a full fledged clinician. Tell us about some of the roles at nyp. And then I want to learn how you went from east coast to West Coast.
- [09:26]
B
Yeah, you know, I, while I was doing training and was faculty at Cornell and then had a position at New York Presbyterian, I started getting more and more engaged in artificial intelligence starting in the research space. So thinking about how do we use AI to diagnose cardiovascular disease earlier, how do we use it on imaging to better interpret imaging and then how do we use it to connect patients to downstream care? And that's what really connected the background I have in software development, product management technology with health care and medicine and using AI as the enabler for improvement of health care delivery at New York Presbyterian. You know, we're just getting started down the Path of AI starting the AI governance, thinking about how do we collaborate with organizations such as Cornell Tech to accelerate the development capabilities and just a really wonderful organization and group of people. But when the Sutter Health opportunity came to me, you know, I learned about the mission, caring for our patients first and our people always. And I met Laura Wilt, our executive Vice president for Digital, as well as Warner Thomas, our CEO. Gosh, their energy is just infectious. And it drew me to the organization right away. Their vision of creating the concept of one Sutter and using digital as an enabler across all of the work we're doing, whether it's in the consumer space, your patient facing space, our clinical work and even our administrative work, how do we operate better as an organization? In their support again for just the concept of innovation and being forward thinking, I couldn't imagine a better place to be.
- [11:15]
A
That is amazing. Yeah, Warner and Laura, great, they did great things at Ochsner and now at Sutter and they built, continued to build on the great foundation that already existed there. Getting next level. So that's pretty cool. Yeah. And then you picking up and going from east coast to west coast and getting the best of both worlds because it's so much fun on both sides. So what are some areas of focus now going to Sutter here as the Chief AI officer? What are a couple of areas of focus that you can share?
- [11:47]
B
Yeah, so I'm building the center for Applied AI and we have a couple of pillars that I'm focusing on and building our team around. First is what you'd kind of expect. It's using the technology as an enabler. Right. And that requires really focusing on the right problem, tying innovation to the, the strategic priorities and then really pinpointing where our organization's most critical responsibilities are and then how we're going to use AI to augment that, but then executing on it. And that could be finding the right commercial partner and that could be building the internal capabilities to be able to develop solutions internally. So that's one thing that we're focused on, is really adding value and impact to the organization. But you can't do that in isolation. So. So I'd say the next two things, you know, I hope they're important in other people's strategies too because they're really vital and that's organizational readiness. It's investing in skills and teams and equipping, equipping really the whole workflow workforce and establishing those cross functional structures that enable the capabilities for everyone to use the productivity tools for everyone to understand you Know, how do they incorporate AI augmented workflows into what they're doing on a daily basis so we can best serve our patients. Right. So that organizational readiness is something that you have to develop and it's a muscle that we're building over time. And then last is AI governance. Right. We have to balance speed and use cases with safety. I think currently with, you know, just generally speaking around federal momentum in thinking about how do we move forward and have patient facing tools and AI enabled care and reshape our expectations for healthcare in general using AI. That means that we really need to think about how do we balance this encouragement and innovation with local compliance and local safety standards that we're doing within the health system to make sure that we are balancing the more advanced digital capabilities with the right safety or oversight. So my team's also responsible in a multidisciplinary capacity to think about that AI governance and that balance.
- [14:01]
A
You're about a year into your role. So did you get to create your team from scratch? And if so, how was that process?
- [14:10]
B
Yeah, when I came on board, we had a director of Data science, John Lamplussel, wonderful, wonderful person and incredibly talented and a few data scientists under him. And we've been building it out really to think about what are the functional domains you need to execute on some of these building and deployment capabilities. So thinking about it and functional domains in terms of program operations, product management, AI engineering and then data science, as well as some of the organizational readiness that I mentioned. And so we've been filling out the team over time. I'm just so excited the way that it's growing. We're starting to get really into the right operating rhythm to be able to, to work together and then even more importantly work with our other digital partners and our operational and clinical leaders at the organization to identify the problems and then identify the solutions in a way that we're really prioritizing. Vetting the technology and the workflow.
- [15:11]
A
Yeah, that's always exciting. Not just are you in the brave new world of AI, but you also get to build a team at the same time. Now, Ashley, one of the many things that make you super unique is AI is not new for you. I mean, we all know AI has been around for many, you know, a couple generations, but in terms of where we are today and the evolution and the speed of AI is quite amazing. But you, you've been doing this for a long time and you're a clinician. So what, how do you, when you look at the current trajectory, you know, what what are some of your thoughts? Like are you surprised or did you kind of anticipate this coming? And I'd love to hear your thoughts around that.
- [15:50]
B
Gosh, you know, I wish I could say I anticipated this coming, but I, I think it's growing at such a rapid pace that it's hard for anyone to anticipate where, how the technology could have been applied even, even 10 years ago. You know, when I think about where some of the early applications are, it's more in the starting with basic clinical decisions to put and some of the rule based work to really applying predictive modeling, extending that to the generative AI capabilities with large language models. And now we're talking about agents and autonomous workflows. And that's been a very short period of time. So I think this evolution, I don't see it slowing down anytime. I think we just need to kind of keep up with it and stay focused on how do we not lose sight of, of the impact statement. Right. So not looking always at incorporating the most advanced technology, but bringing it back to what is sometimes what is the simplest technology to get us to where we need to be. And when I think about how that's shifted my strategy because I think, you know, your strategy has to shift with what's happening around you. We hear a lot of constant AI headlines and I think that creates a sense of urgency. Right. How do we push, push our organization? And that can lead to very reactive decision making just given the pace of change and the wanting to be part of it and the fear of missing out. They talk about fear of missing out a lot when we think about AI hype. But that speed, it has to be balanced with discipline and again, scoping and prioritization because it could be costly otherwise. And so we've really been thinking about distinguishing what's meaningful and then turning it into action. And so this year, really our priorities and where I think these shifts and where we are are leading to a change in my strategy is really making sure that that scope is, is solidified and aligned with our strategic principles as an organization and what we're trying to accomplish and making sure that we can really execute on it.
- [17:59]
A
Yeah, no, I love that it's very measured approach and not getting too caught up in the various hype cycles. What questions are your leaders asking like? So at Sutter and as a chief AI officer, I'm sure many people are looking to you to help do all the things that you just described. What sort of questions are common that people ask?
- [18:21]
B
I think people have an Idea of what AI, how AI can meet their needs. And, and so a lot of times when we meet with other leaders in the organization, we, we can distinguish, okay, is this an opportunity for AI and technology or is this something that really is, is a workflow change that needs to happen? And so by our leaders asking how they can apply AI and technology in a way to improve what their teams are doing and, and really execute on the leading health care that we want to deliver to our patients, we found that, you know, some of the opportunities for transformation do lie in technology, but sometimes they lie in just maturing, maturing processes and workflows. The other thing I would say, my direct leadership, Laura and Warner, what they ask is, how can we support you? I mean, I'm incredibly fortunate to have a leadership team that wants to invest in the digital space and again, wants to be innovative and forward thinking. And I am incredibly appreciative of that because I think it allows us to really move at the pace that we want to.
- [19:30]
A
Now you're, like I already said, you're really, really blessed there at Sutter with Warner and Laura and Chris and other leaders that you have all looking to see how to leverage technology to enable your mission vision. But I love what you said. Just want to call it out now. Probably call it out at the end as well. But transformation is not always about the technology. I think some people get confused on that. So good for you. I know a lot of our listeners, you know, they're also interested in you as a person and your leadership. So I want to sort of shift now in terms of leadership because many people will be like, I want to be like Dr. B.C. here. She's, she's amazing. Was there a moment where vulnerability became your greatest strength?
- [20:12]
B
Gosh. You know, the first thing that comes up to mind when you say vulnerability is really being in the ICUs during COVID I think that that was a time where our patients were scared, but I was scared. We were scared as care teams, right? Being worried that our patients wouldn't have the right equipment or resources. Just being worried that we couldn't deliver the care, the level of care that we needed, and then worried for our own families, worried for our own health. And I think that was certainly a time of vulnerability for myself and all of us. But coming out of that experience, you know, thinking about being in New York at the time, and at the end of the day, you know, on York Avenue, everyone would lean out the window and bang their pots and pans to support all of the care teams that were working in the hospital. I remember that moment distinctly because I think it, it really strengthened my appreciation for the profession of being a doctor, being a physician, and also strengthened my understanding of the really deep connection between doctors and patients that exist. And I've really carried that forward with me.
- [21:27]
A
What about refreshing yourself? Like, is there a place that you go could be mental, could be physical. Is there a place that you go when you need, like your creativity is drained and you need to just, you know, reimagine things?
- [21:39]
B
I love to run. I would run outside, right? I think being outside, being disconnected. You know, we talk a lot about technology, but sometimes your most creative moments happen when you disconnect from technology. And I. That's like a space where, you know, just being outside being running, running, getting that adrenaline rush really gets. Gets me thinking. Thinking about in a different way than I would when I'm sitting at the desk or checking email or in meetings, which can really take up a lot of your time.
- [22:12]
A
Ah, you shouldn't have mentioned running because, you know, next time I come out to San Francisco, I'm going to be like, hey, let's go out for a run and catch up. Let's do it. Running is great. And I mean, you've lived in great places to go run. Do you define success now you're. That you're a little bit mature in your career and having done multiple things, do you define success differently now than you did maybe early in your career?
- [22:36]
B
Yeah, I think earlier in my career I thought more on personal metrics. So it's, you know, how do you get the next promotion? How did you do on your presentation? You know, and then medicine really drives that individual achievement concept too. With how many publications did I get? Did I get that grant? And I'm getting, you know, faculty appointment. I think as I've. I've matured in my career and taking on more leadership roles, I don't look at it like that anymore. I look at it as success being what we achieve together. So even if I'm using technology and I'm enabling what another group can do or what we can do as an organization, organization, that to me is. Is what motivates me now. It's not, it's not the personal metrics, it's the, the metrics of success across our team and across the organization.
- [23:29]
A
What about you mentioned growing up Cape Cod, sort of idealistic era. Is there anything that your parents forced you to do? And at the time you probably like rolling your eyes maybe not in front of them or maybe in front of them. But looking back now, in hindsight, you're kind of glad they made you do that particular thing. Was there anything like that?
- [23:48]
B
You mean, you mean other than brush my teeth? I mean, I think there's certainly things day to day where I'm like, wow, I'm glad I did that. You know, I think the way that I grew up, my, my parents were very open minded people and I think it's not what they forced me to do, but it was what they didn't force me to do that I found that was more impactful and just giving me the space to fail. They giving me the space to just learn how to, to navigate. Because those, those learning moments are what I've been able to apply in the most impactful way as I've, I've grown as an adult and in my career.
- [24:27]
A
You know, similar to the running and the creativity. What about longer, longer term when you just need to get away? Not that anything is bad, but you know, we all need to, you know, the balanced life. As we touched on briefly earlier, how do you recharge? Like other than running, is, is there something else that, that you, or maybe you and your family sort of embrace to just make sure the batteries are, you know, fully charged?
- [24:51]
B
Play. And that sounds funny, right when I, when I say play, but that has such a place in our lives, right? I think it helps us not take ourselves too seriously. It helps bring back those moments of just innocence and fun. And I, I try to play, I try to play with my kids, whether it's a board game or it's, you know, making kitchen science experiments. My daughter and I love to build rockets and make things explode, which is a great pastime of ours. And we've actually taken on skiing. Skiing is good. I've, I've now become the least skilled skier of my family, but I'm working up to it. I just think that I'm a little bit further from the ground and so, so the risk reward is a little bit different than, you know, maybe for everybody else.
- [25:37]
A
Yeah. Well, you definitely got some good skiing inspiration during the Olympics recently. We get some great, great ski stories come out and, and cautious ones as well. But yeah, skiing is pretty cool. Ashley, this has been amazing just to get to know you more deeper and the things that you're doing. We talked about everything from music and K pop and, and meatloaf for sure, from the back in the 70s. And then we talked about life message and mantra really about prioritizing people, but also the whole Brinks analogy and your funeral it's not about, you know, the money that you build up. It's, it's, it's much deeper than that. And we talk about your life growing up Cape Cod, being a lifeguard and then your early influences like as a seventh grade teacher and figuring out formulas. You can already see, you know, in hindsight now, right, looking backwards, how, how you came to be and just, you know, having, you know, a great family and things like that. And, and then we talked about. Your career was so unique. Starting off, you know, it's a technical degree, IBM, then working in finance and then finding your calling and passion in healthcare way. I mean it's a great story. I just love, I love that. And then getting into AI pretty early compared to most people today. And so this is not anything new for you. So you're perfect. Like if you look back, it's like you're perfect, perfectly shaped to end up at Sutter to be the Chief AI Officer. And we talked a lot about your role and what you're doing, how you work, developing with your teams, how you're working with others and what I love most. I said it once already, I'm going to say it one more time because it's so key and that's transformation is not always about tech. So here is you, who's Chief AI officer, you understand tech, but your other leaders get it as well. They understand tech and the importance of IT and AI and how it's reshaping and helping, you know, reach mission and vision. But at the end of the day it's still, it's not, that's not always the answer. It's not always a solution. It's really about. People talked a lot about leadership and just some defining moments for you and vulnerability and how you've been, you know, view success and you know, going from an individual achievement to the team. It's just this beautiful story and then how you just recharge both with your family and individually just playing and things like that. Which is great because that's why we ask these questions. Because a lot of times people, you know, they think about leaders and all they're doing is, you know, AI. But no, no, no, you're a well rounded person in skiing and pretty soon you'll be skiing moguls and probably see you at the Olympics in Salt Lake City in a few years. Ashley, what did we miss? Or is there anything you'd like to double down on? I'll give you the last word.
- [28:08]
B
You know, I would just say that I think this is an incredible time. It's an incredible time for us to think as a nation and technology and healthcare. And I would just encourage people, if it's something that you're passionate about, it's not too late. Get involved, learn about it. Figure out how you can, you can contribute to it, and whatever role that you're in. Because we need people that understand medicine and understand technology and the intersection of both, because that's really how we're going to kind of move the whole field forward.
- [28:42]
A
Ashley, you're an amazing leader, amazing person. Thank you for being my guest on Digital Voices.
- [28:48]
B
Thank you, Eddie. I really appreciate it. Thank you for listening to Digital Voices. We hope today's conversation sparked ideas, reflection, and connection. Subscribe on YouTube, Apple and Spotify podcasts so you don't miss an episode.