How Reality TV Makes Us All Republicans

Summary

Diabolical Lies – Episode Summary

Podcast: Diabolical Lies
Episode: How Reality TV Makes Us All Republicans
Hosts: Katie Gatti Tassin & Caro Claire Burke
Date: June 14, 2026

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Episode Overview

In this episode, Katie and Caro dive into the pervasive influence of reality television, not just on entertainment, but on culture and politics. Using the recent mayoral run of Spencer Pratt and high-profile moments from reality TV as touchstones, the hosts explore how reality TV acts as a cultural “swamp”—remaking our norms, shaping our empathy, and ultimately blurring the line between viewer, participant, and the political sphere. The conversation moves from personal anecdotes and the economic reasons behind reality TV’s rise to broader commentary on media, voyeurism, and shifting political landscapes.

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Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. Personal Entrances to Reality Television

• Katie’s “Shameful” Introduction

  • Grew up watching Keeping up with the Kardashians and Real Housewives with her mom (03:39).
  • Remembers cultural milestones: “the Teresa Giudice table flipping prostitution whore scene became like a mainstay of culture in my household.” (02:15, Katie)
  • Admits her interest waned as an adult—the premises grew stale.

• Caro’s Perspective

  • Also grew up watching The Kardashians and was a big fan of America’s Next Top Model.
  • Watches more TV than Katie, feels “kind of obsessed with the way that reality television functions alongside other topics that we talk about.” (03:16, Caro)
  • Notes reality TV and social media have “created this, like, everything is reality television all the time… this Panopticon all the time” (04:08, Caro).

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2. The Panopticon & Public Scrutiny as Entertainment

• Coldplay Concert Incident

  • Katie recounts a couple at a Coldplay concert caught cheating on the big screen, leading to viral exposure, resignations, and public spectacles. (06:10–07:08)
  • Caro summarizes: “the experience of consuming that story was reality tv. That was the point. People were trying to find out details about them. They felt entitled to their indiscretion” (07:18, Caro).
  • Commentary on how private lives become public drama, regardless of legality or morality.

• Summer House Reunion

  • Recent reunion featured Amanda and Wes “annihilated” by others but “calm and zen” (08:31, Caro).
  • Theory circulated that they were on beta blockers or Xanax to dampen emotional response (09:18).
  • Caro’s self-awareness: “I felt kind of like I was sitting in the Roman Stadium… I paid a lot of money to watch this person get eaten alive, and they’re just taking it” (10:26, Caro).
  • Katie jokes: “a commercial for benzodiazepines.” (10:13, Katie)

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3. Economic & Structural Reasons for Reality TV

• Why Unscripted TV Boom?
  • Katie explains: No need to hire writers or actors, just “get these, like, desperate schmucks who want to be famous and put them—like—ruin their lives, basically.” (05:24, Katie)
  • Networks preferred unscripted TV for lower costs and higher returns.

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4. Reality TV’s Relationship with Politics

• Perceived Media Bias & Cultural Influence

  • Caro: “We have this belief that mainstream media is liberal… and I think you and I spend a lot of time unpacking just how not true that is” (10:51).
  • Katie references Citations Needed discussing the conservative embedding of the “liberal media” narrative (10:59).
  • The hosts argue reality TV’s cultural and political pull often has deeply conservative elements, regardless of the surface narrative.

• The Swamp Metaphor & Public Participation

  • Caro on reality TV as a “swamp” we’re all ambiently bathing in—even if we think we’re just watching:

    “We are all sitting in the swamp at all times. Like, we’re in the swamp, we’re just ambiently bathing in the swamp.” (11:15, Caro)

  • Transition to discussing politicians (e.g., Spencer Pratt) moving “in and out of the reality television sphere,” while audiences paradoxically view themselves as outside it.

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5. The Spencer Pratt Mayoral Campaign

• Who is Spencer Pratt?

  • Katie: “Spencer Pratt was kind of like the villain on The Hills, which was a early 2000s reality television show which introduced the world to unproblematic queen Lauren Conrad. And Spencer was one half of this villainous couple, Spidey, Spencer and Heidi. And I know he’s a blonde man, which I have feel know he loves crystals.” (12:24, Katie)
  • Hosts joke about Katie’s feelings on “blonde adult men”: “If nature gives you frosted tips, I think we should have a conversation about that.” (13:35, Katie)

• The Rise and Fade of Reality TV Stardom

  • Caro details Pratt’s arc from tabloid villain to mayoral hopeful:

    “He’s just a nightmare. He’s exactly what you’d imagine. And then eventually, The Hills... ended. Interest in it kind of died. And Spencer and Heidi, who got married during The Hills and were kind of an infamous villain couple, were left scrambling, right. Because the show is over. You don’t make that much money on reality tv.” (14:31, Caro)

  • Heidi’s surgeries and the couple’s attempts to stay relevant—divorce as publicity stunt, failed attempts at music and TV deals (15:26, Katie; 15:31, Caro).

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Caro, on reality TV’s stranglehold:

  “It has fully remade the entertainment industry. Like, it has completely changed the way that we think about entertainment... everything is reality television all the time.” (03:16–04:08)

• Katie on the “memory holding effect” of binge TV:

  “It’s all I think about for three days and then I completely forget it exists.” (04:39, Katie)

• On social media as an extension of reality TV:

  “We have this, like, Panopticon all the time, where everything is reality tv and it just feels like it’s increasing.” (04:08, Caro)

• The morality play of reality TV:

  “Are we acting like it’s illegal? Absolutely.” (08:15, Caro)

• Self-aware critique:

  “I felt kind of like I was sitting in the Roman Stadium, where you’re like, well, I paid a lot of money to watch this person get eaten alive, and they’re just taking it. It’s very anticlimactic.” (10:26, Caro)

• On reality TV as a civic space:

  “We are all sitting in the swamp at all times. Like, we’re in the swamp, we’re just ambiently bathing in the swamp.” (11:15, Caro)

• Katie’s joke on cycles of public infidelity:

  “Everyone should do it every six months just to keep things spicy.” (07:12, Katie)

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Timestamps for Important Segments

• [00:44] Beginning of main discussion and transition from Girl Boss era to reality TV
• [01:35] Katie and Caro’s first memories of reality TV; personal relationships to the genre
• [04:08] Caro’s “everything is reality television” and the Panopticon analogy
• [06:10–07:08] The Coldplay Couple incident explored as real-world reality TV
• [08:31–10:26] Summer House reunion and the desire for public punishment/popcorn drama
• [10:51–11:15] Conversation about “liberal media” myth and reality TV’s conservative resonance
• [11:15] Introduction to the “swamp” metaphor for cultural omnipresence of reality TV
• [12:24–15:31] Spencer Pratt: from reality TV villain to mayoral candidate; the afterlife of reality stars

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Tone, Style, and Language

The episode combines humor, cultural critique, and personal confession. The hosts balance serious analysis with irreverence and asides—joking about frosted tips, pregnancy, and the absurdities of celebrity culture—while not shying away from pointed commentary about voyeurism, morality, class, and political identity.

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Summary

This episode unpacks how reality TV has not just influenced entertainment, but also warped social and political norms—creating a mass participatory culture where everyone is a spectator, everyone a potential subject. The case studies of public scandal (the Coldplay couple, Summer House), the economic machinery behind unscripted TV, and Spencer Pratt’s transition into politics all serve to illustrate the episode’s central theme: Reality television doesn’t just reflect society, it re-wires it—and we’re all living inside the show.

Transcript

[Host 1]

Okay, today's episode of Diabolical Lies is brought to you by Spencer Pratt, Omarosa Newman, Sean Spicer, Jim Bob Duggar, Steve Bannon, Donald Trump, and all of the reality show producers who keep this nation chugging steadily along towards the inevitable late stage brain rot doom scroll apocalypse that awaits us once we hit Keeping up with the Kardashians season 50. So, Katie, last episode, you, Epstein, Sheryl Sandberg, which is my way of saying you took us on a profoundly detailed and well researched romp through the years to help us understand the historical context for the socioeconomic and cultural phenomenon known as the Girl Boss era. And today we're talking about Dancing with the Stars in Spencer Press mayoral campaign.

[Katie]

Yeah, because we deserve it.

[Host 1]

Because as it turns out, because we deserve it. And as it turns out, in the same way that I feel like this podcast is always teaching me about all of the ways in which misogyny, like, is baked into our lives, I am learning as a pregnant woman that misogynists are right and pregnant women shouldn't have to do any work. I feel dumber by the day. I feel so stupid. I feel seven times more stupid than I did one month pregnant. And I will say, as much as this is something that I just kind of wanted to shoot the shit about, I am kind of obsessed with reality television. And we did a bonus episode about this a few months ago, and I actually realized in doing that bonus episode that I did want to make this a main feed conversation as well. So we're kind of circling back on that from a different angle today.

[Katie]

Love it. I can't wait.

[Host 1]

So, Katie, what is your relationship to reality television?

[Katie]

Shameful. I grew up watching Keeping up with the Kardashians and Real Housewives with my mom.

[Host 1]

Okay, that was your entry point.

[Katie]

Yeah, Kardashians. I remember being in, like, elementary school and being after school at my friend Ethan's house and his older sister Abby was watching it. And, like, from the first time I laid eyes on Kim Kardashian, I was like, starstruck and in love.

[Host 1]

She's perfect.

[Katie]

I loved her. This was probably 2007, 2008, so the show had just come out. I just remember watching Real Housewives of New York and New Jersey with my mom and how the Teresa Giudice table flipping prostitution whore scene became like a mainstay of culture in my household. But as an adult, I would say that, like, I don't know, I think reality television has really fallen off. At least as an adult. It doesn't, like, grab me as much as it used to. And I think I alluded to this a little bit in the bonus episode that we did about it. But, I mean, I was watching Love is Blind for a while, and then that premise just kind of got stale for me. I don't really seek out reality television as much anymore.

[Host 1]

Okay, cool. It's interesting. So you watched this with your mom growing up. It was like, kind of a bonding activity.

[Katie]

Mm. And my mom is, like, very MAGA and very Catholic. And so, like, you wouldn't think that she would have liked that kind of stuff, but she would. I mean, we would get home from school and she'd be like, you wanna watch trash tv? Like, she was. She loved it too. So it was really bridging divides. It's out here. Bridging divides.

[Host 1]

I love that. I think I don't remember my first reality show. My first reality show. I think the Kardashians was definitely up there. I definitely watched America's Next Top Model quite a bit. I will say I definitely watch reality television more than you do. I think I just watch television more than you do. I think I'm a little bit more of a television addict than you are. And I think maybe because of that and also in combination with this podcast, I've just become kind of obsessed with the way that reality television functions alongside other topics that we talk about on this show. Like, I think when we talk about the idea of being woman or the idea of, like, these cultural event rabbit holes where people can move politically without realizing it, I feel like that can often happen with reality television. And there's something that feels just very slippery about the conversation with it where, like, it has fully remade the entertainment industry. Like, it has completely changed the way that we think about entertainment. I think that that, alongside social media, has kind of created this, like, everything is reality television all the time. And there's this kind of chicken and egg feeling where it's not like we. It's not like Mark Zuckerberg decided to make face mash because of reality tv. He did it because he hates women. But I do think that there is this feeling of just as technology advances, we have this, like, Panopticon all the time, where everything is reality tv and it just feels like it's increasing. It doesn't feel like the stranglehold is slipping.

[Katie]

A couple thoughts. Number one, I forgot to say that I also watch Mormon Wives, which we all know, because I had plenty of Taylor Frankie Paul apologia on offer in our bonus episode. But that show, to me, because of how it comes out like twice a year and all the episodes drop and then you can binge them over, like, 48 hours. That, to me, I feel like I have the same, like, memory holding effect as the eras tour where people would leave after four hours and be like, what just happened? I'm like. I'm like. It's all I think about for three days and then I completely forget it exists.

[Host 1]

And then it's gone.

[Katie]

And then it's just completely gone. So, like, there's that.

[Host 1]

That is true.

[Katie]

Number two, are we going to talk about why reality television became, like, the economic reasons that reality television became so popular? Unscripted television?

[Host 1]

No, but we can talk about it now.

[Katie]

Okay. I was just gonna say, I think it's. It is really, really fascinating. It doesn't sound like it's an element of, like, what you want to talk about today, but. But when you think about, like, the reasons why unscripted TV became so preferential for, like, executives at these networks because they didn't have to hire writers or, like, actors, you basically just get these, like, desperate schmucks who want to be famous and put them, like, ruin their lives, basically. Right. And it's really popular. So I think that that element of this is. I had a third thing, but my brain is too rotted from reality television, so I don't remember what it was. Maybe it'll come back to me later.

[Host 1]

Maybe you're pregnant too. Take a test while we're recording.

[Katie]

I hope not Reality TV over the Panopticon.

[Host 1]

The Panopticon.

[Katie]

That's what I was going to say immediately when you say that. The thing that I think of is the couple at the Coldplay concert where, like, they were making out.

[Host 1]

Wait, describe that really quickly for anyone. Yeah.

[Katie]

Okay. So this was a weird one of those moments, like national Rorschach tests, where it feels like everyone is talking about the same thing, where there was a couple at a Coldplay concert where it was actually two co workers who were both cheating on their spouses, and they got put on the kiss cam big screen and it got videotaped that like, they, you know, Sheila, they, like, hid, basically, and everyone was like, what's up with that? And it went viral and, like, he had to step down as CEO and like, it blew up their marriages. And it was this whole thing. And. And it kind of started this conversation where people were, like, vaguely uncomfortable with the fact that, like, these two private citizens that were just, I mean, like, cheating on their spouses. Sure. But just, like, enjoying A concert together ended up having their lives and personal lives.

[Host 1]

And also, last time I checked, cheating on your spouse, not illegal. It's not illegal.

[Katie]

Yeah, everyone should do it every six months just to keep things spicy.

[Host 1]

I completely agree.

[Katie]

I'm just kidding.

[Host 1]

But that is a great example because then what happened is that this became this cultural moment where Ryan Reynolds turned it into a commercial. And then the woman involved in the scandal ended up doing like a sit down, tell all I believe with Oprah. And so you really do get into this feeling again where it's not like she got a reality television show, but the. The experience of consuming that story was reality tv. That was the point. People were trying to find out details about them. They felt entitled to their indiscretion. And again, we were then like basically losing our minds over the fact that this has happened and this was for cheating. That is not illegal. But very quickly it's immoral. I think we've seen the same thing with the Summer House drama that has been playing out where it's like you have people who have theoretically. Again, we don't know these people. You have people who have theoretically, basically gone behind their friends or their partner's backs and hooked up. Is it unseemly? Sure. Is it illegal? No. Are we acting like it's illegal? Absolutely.

[Katie]

Was there a Summer House reunion recently? I feel like I saw a cute headlines.

[Host 1]

Yes. And that's what I was gonna talk about.

[Katie]

Okay, great. I do want the update. Cause I have not followed it at all. So I have no idea what ended up happening. But I just saw headlines about the reunion happening.

[Host 1]

Dude, it was nuts. First of all, I think it's gonna be a two or a three part series. And I think by the time this episode comes out, the second part will have come out. I have only watched the first part. I got riley up at 6am to watch it the other day while we were in San Francisco for tourists. It was nuts. I mean, it was exactly what you would imagine. Amanda and Wes, who are the offending party, were just annihilated. And the reason actually why I wanted to talk about this today was because I was watching that reunion. And something that happened in that reunion that kind of struck me as new was that Amanda and Wes, who are the ones essentially in the hot seats while all the contestants are furious with them, they're kind of getting fileted. They were both very calm and very zen. And the prevailing theory after the reunion aired was that they were both on beta blockers or Xanax or some kind of medication.

[Katie]

Wow. I was gonna. I was gonna make a joke that they were on Xanax.

[Host 1]

Yeah.

[Katie]

Yeah. But that's amazing that that was actually the theory.

[Host 1]

Exactly. I mean, Riley brought it up when we were watching it. He was like, for sure they're on beta blockers. I don't know if they were, but that was a conversation that dominated the following days. And people were furious. They were mad, essentially, that they had been cheated of the opportunity to watch these people really suffer. Like, it's not enough for you to be there. You have to look uncomfortable. You have to experience this, and I have to see you experience it. There has been this whole wave of, like, no, if you're going to go up there, you got to actually take it. And we need to see you be upset. We need to see you be sad. And it felt like the next iteration of this expectation of, like, the compact we have with these people where it's like, not only do they have to share their personal lives or lean into these narratives or show up for the reunion, but they've got to emote the way that we want them to, like

[Katie]

a commercial for benzodiazepines.

[Host 1]

Right, right. And so I was just watching this unfold because, honestly, I felt a little cheated. And I was like, why do I care that they're not reacting more emotionally?

[Katie]

Yeah.

[Host 1]

I felt kind of like I was sitting in the Roman Stadium, where you're like, well, I paid a lot of money to watch this person get eaten alive, and they're just taking it. It's very anticlimactic. You have this expectation. So we're not gonna talk about Summer House at length today, but that was kind of one of those tipping moments for me. I think I've talked about this in the bonus episode as well, that we have this belief that mainstream media is liberal. That's something that we push quite a bit.

[Katie]

Oh, yeah.

[Host 1]

And that we have a liberal bias. And I think you and I spend a lot of time unpacking just how not true that is.

[Katie]

There was a great episode, by the way, of. I think it was citations needed recently about this. Like how conservative thinkers in the late 20th century kind of embedded that notion into society that media is liberal.

[Host 1]

Yeah. So in the bonus episode, we talked quite a bit about Taylor, Frankie, Paul and Amanda Bachula and the kind of psychological weirdness of watching reality tv. Today we're going to talk about the political connection with reality television, the way that politicians move in and out of the reality television sphere. And what I want to think about this in terms of, like, metaphorical resonance is the idea of reality television as this swamp. And we often talk about the people who walk into and out of it, but we don't really talk about the fact that we are all sitting in the swamp at all times. Like, we're in the swamp, we're just ambiently bathing in the swamp. And we're talking about the people who enter and exit it, but we're not really thinking about, like, well, what are they entering and exiting and what is our proximity to it? So that's what we're talking about today, which is basically my intellectual explanation for my burning desire to talk about Spencer Pratt's mayoral campaign for the city of Los Angeles, which ended on June 2nd when he didn't receive a high enough percentage of the votes to reach runoff status with incumbent mayor Karen Bass. But Pratt's involvement in this mayoral campaign has essentially defined the conversation for the last 6ish months that he ran. And that is what we are talking about today. So, Katie, okay, what do you know about Spencer Pratt?

[Katie]

Spencer Pratt. Spencer Pratt. Well, I did notice in my Liz Lenz newsletter this morning that she did a dingus of the week about Spencer Pratt. And it was like, spiritually, he is always wearing two layered pastel colored polo shirts with the collar stocked. It's like, yeah, that tracks. Spencer Pratt was kind of like the villain on the Hills, which was a early 2000s reality television show which introduced the world to unproblematic queen Lauren Conrad. And Spencer was one half of this villainous couple, Spidey, Spencer and Heidi. And I know he's a blonde man, which I have feel know he loves crystals.

[Host 1]

Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. What are your feelings about blonde men? Or can you not air them? Are they too hot? Jail Jake's too spicy?

[Katie]

Illegal. It just never the twain shall meet is my feelings about blonde, blonde adult men. I can't explain it. It just doesn't sit right with me. Makes me uneasy. I'm just kidding.

[Host 1]

You're not kidding.

[Katie]

Well, you know, it's like the frosted tips thing, but natural. And I'm like, if nature gives you frosted tips, I think we should have a conversation about that.

[Host 1]

Okay, that's an excellent summary. Yeah. So Spencer Pratt was a character, emphasis on the word character, who is a villain on a reality television show called the Hills. A very formative reality television show. And you're right, it's centered around Lauren Conrad, who had kind of sprung to fame from an earlier reality television show. One of the earlier ones, Laguna Beach.

[Katie]

Oh, you're right.

[Host 1]

So she was in her early 20s when she did this reality television show, and it kind of followed her exploits around Los Angeles. It aired from 2006.

[Katie]

Ooh, exploits.

[Host 1]

Yeah. To around 2010. And in the first season, Lauren meets Heidi. They become fast friends and eventual roommates. And then in season two, Heidi's got a bad boyfwiend, and his name is Spencer Pratt.

[Katie]

Spencer Pwat.

[Host 1]

Spencer pout. He famously comes between Lauren and Heidi. It's a whole thing. It inspired a number of infamous quotes, including Lauren telling Heidi, I want to forgive you and I want to forget you, which is fucking bars. So, yeah, Spencer's a bit of a nightmare. I was looking for, like, a series of montages of, like, his behavior on the Hills. And then, like, seven hours passed, and I was like, I'm no closer. I'm no closer. So anyways, you can look it up. He's just a nightmare. He's exactly what you'd imagine. And then eventually, the Hills kind of shriveled up. It ended. Interest in it kind of died. And Spencer and Heidi, who got married during the Hills and were kind of an infamous villain couple, were left scrambling. Right. Because the show is over. You don't make that much money on reality tv. And so they kind of hover around the periphery of Hollywood for years. In a pretty tragic way, I would say. Heidi releases music. She famously gets like, this is actually really sad. She gets an obscene amount of cosmetic augmentation done.

[Katie]

Oh, I remember the boob job. Cause she got cup size H for Heidi.

[Host 1]

Yes. She got 10 procedures done in a single day. It eventually basically became another storyline that she was leaning into. So you would see her on the COVID of tabloids just looking almost unrecognizable and then talking about how much she regretted it, but then getting more cosmetic work done. At one point, she and Spencer file for divorce and then call it off. And eventually they admit that they did that because they learned the Hills was not going to be picked up for another season, and they thought the divorce might pick up interest for another series and to, like, boost her music career.