Podcast Summary: Diabolical Lies – Jeffrey Epstein & the Ordinary Misogyny of "Extraordinary" Men
Podcast: Diabolical Lies
Hosts: Katie Gatti Tassin & Caro Claire Burke
Episode Date: March 8, 2026
Episode Theme: A critical re-examination of the Jeffrey Epstein story, challenging the mythologizing of Epstein as a “superhuman” villain and arguing that his ability to escape justice for decades is rooted less in his singular power or brilliance and more in widespread, ordinary misogyny bolstered by systemic failures at every level.
OVERVIEW
This episode delves into the cultural and legal narratives surrounding Jeffrey Epstein and critiques the prevailing notion that his evasion of justice was due to his unique brilliance, wealth, and power. Instead, Caro and Katie argue these "extraordinary" features obscure how ordinary misogyny and routine institutional failures allowed Epstein (and men like him) to escape accountability. Drawing on a detailed legal history of the Epstein case, parallel instances from the #MeToo era, and personal anecdotes, the hosts explore why systemic change—not just the exposure of individual “monsters”—is necessary to protect women from abuse.
KEY DISCUSSION POINTS & INSIGHTS
1. The Myth of the Super-Villain
- Opening (03:21-08:20):
The hosts note that most coverage of Epstein attributes his impunity to “singular charm,” “unprecedented wealth,” and “brilliant evil.” Caro pushes back:"I don't believe that. That's what this episode is about today... I think in order to do so, we need to spend time with the legal timeline of Epstein's numerous cases." (07:05)
- Epstein is painted as "preternaturally charming" and almost superhuman in cultural narratives, which both left and right have indulged in. Katie points out this myth is alluring, especially as Epstein becomes a symbol or “skeleton key” for understanding broader elite corruption.
2. Origins of Power and Cultural Double Standards
- Epstein’s Early Years (08:24-19:57):
- Epstein’s rise from a math teacher at the elite Dalton School to Bear Stearns and then into mysterious wealth involved lies, manipulation, and relationships with powerful men.
- Early rumors of sexual impropriety at Dalton were routinely dismissed or explained away:
"He was much more present amongst the students, specifically the girl students, during non-teaching hours... there was a mild sense of creepiness." (10:17, reading from NPR sources)
- His talent for conning is reframed as ambition, while impoverished women lured with promises of cash are culturally dismissed as desperate or “whores.”
3. Workplace Misogyny: Enabler, Not Anomaly
- Bear Stearns Culture (21:26-25:19):
- Routine objectification and commodification of women were not Epstein outliers but the Wall Street norm:
"Throughout his life, he was constantly given environmental reinforcements...that women can and should be used as objects. They're literally sexual play toys." (23:59)
- Culture of using women for leverage is pervasive, not an “Epstein innovation.”
- Routine objectification and commodification of women were not Epstein outliers but the Wall Street norm:
4. The Illusion of Financial Genius
- “Only Working with Billionaires” (27:37-32:30):
- Epstein’s supposed financial acumen is questioned, noting his public explanations for his wealth are “nothing burger[s].”
"The key is to not lose money is not an insightful thing to say. That's not interesting. That does not indicate to me...you're some financial genius." (31:17)
- True wealth begets credibility and shields even mediocre men from scrutiny, while women are endlessly questioned about the legitimacy of their earnings.
- Epstein’s supposed financial acumen is questioned, noting his public explanations for his wealth are “nothing burger[s].”
5. Sexualization of Young Women: Victoria’s Secret and Beyond
- Partnerships with Les Wexner (32:52-35:25):
- Epstein’s relationship with Victoria’s Secret founder Les Wexner, and the brand itself, is scrutinized for how it commodified preteen sexuality:
"Has any brand done more to sexualize young women than Victoria's Secret?" (32:30)
- Both hosts reflect on memories of earliest sexualization and the persistent cultural conditioning to see girls’ bodies as commodities.
- Epstein’s relationship with Victoria’s Secret founder Les Wexner, and the brand itself, is scrutinized for how it commodified preteen sexuality:
6. Media Mythmaking & The Failure to Scrutinize
- Early Press Coverage (38:08-48:13):
- 2002 profiles in NY Mag and Vanity Fair help cement the Epstein myth as an “international money man of mystery” or “Gatsby-esque”–even as criminality and grooming of young girls was already evident.
"There is a strange degree of comfort with that fact, but it's never really probed..." (47:25)
- 2002 profiles in NY Mag and Vanity Fair help cement the Epstein myth as an “international money man of mystery” or “Gatsby-esque”–even as criminality and grooming of young girls was already evident.
7. Legal Timeline: Institutional Complicity & Survivor Slander
- Palm Beach Investigation (48:33-61:33):
- Meticulous local journalism is credited for initial exposure.
- Once police identify minors recruited for “massages,” private investigators (hired by Epstein) intimidate witnesses and families.
- Prosecutors paint victims as “liars,” “prostitutes,” “drug addicts,” and “thieves”, relying on rape myths and shifting blame.
"You're aware that you committed a crime? ... Now I am. I didn't know it was a crime when I was doing it..." (60:44, from grand jury transcripts)
- The grand jury returns only solicitation/prostitution charges, downplaying rape/child abuse.
"By calling it 'prostitute,' I mean, no one cares..." (58:01)
- Notable local journalism: The Palm Beach Post and Tampa Bay Times are praised for their decade-long, diligent reporting (48:46-49:40).
8. Epstein’s Legal Defense: Systemic Loopholes
- Depositions & Obstructions (66:49-73:26):
- Epstein’s legal team exploits the system, pleading the Fifth, using semantics (solicitation of “prostitute” vs. minor), and endless objections.
- The legal system, burdened by technicalities and loopholes, is shown to favor the wealthy:
“What's the point of the legal system?” (71:20)
- Quote:
“This isn't about getting to the truth. This is about whose legal team can navigate the various loopholes more adeptly." (73:08)
9. Survivor Testimony: The Impossible Standard
- Virginia Giuffre’s Story (78:04-101:18):
- The story of Virginia Giuffre, one of Epstein’s most prominent survivors, is revisited: from grooming by Ghislaine Maxwell to years of trauma, to years-long battles to be heard by authorities.
- Hostile depositions focus on Giuffre’s “credibility,” scrutinizing irrelevant resume details years after her abuse for evidence of dishonesty.
“Why are we grilling someone on...were you actually a waitress?” (97:13)
- The pattern reflects a broader legal strategy: making survivors’ testimony seem unreliable by focusing on minutiae utterly unrelated to their abuse.
- Quote (Virginia Giuffre reading):
"I did add places in, such as Indigo Bar and Grill... Just to show that I was consistently working, which I was not. And I needed a job to help my family...I had to plump up my resumes..." (92:19-92:58; see also extended deposition mockup, 91:31–99:39).
- Media and legal double standards: men’s lies are framed as ambition, women’s as discrediting.
10. The Ordinary Nature of the “Extraordinary” Crime
- Statistical Reality (125:13-129:28):
- Only 2.5% of reported sexual assaults lead to any conviction requiring incarceration; the true number is even lower, given under-reporting.
- The same justice gap—at all points from police through prosecution—undermines survivors across the board:
"If it were true Epstein represents an anomalous case…then it would follow that the justice system would do a better job finding justice for other sexual assault survivors. And that is not the case." (124:01)
- Key meta-study quote:
"Rape myths shift the blame from the perpetrator to the victim’s report (survivor)... Examples: women commonly lie about rape, rapes are committed by strangers... women who drink are less credible... white men are more likely to escape further investigation." (126:53-129:28)
11. #MeToo as a Cultural Watershed
- Systemic Shift and Its Limits (140:50-146:10):
- MeToo is credited as the culture-shifting force that finally enabled authorities and the public to believe women in high-profile cases—Epstein, Weinstein, Nassar, Cosby, et al.—not because evidence newly emerged, but because social context shifted.
"I am trying to say that Epstein was finally caught because we finally had a moment where there was a cultural willingness to believe women." (143:16)
- Yet the door has now closed:
"Now we don't [believe women]. So now we're kind of living in the wreckage of that..." (143:16-144:24)
- To combat this, cultural (not just legal or procedural) change is needed; survivors’ odds are currently “profoundly stacked against them.”
- MeToo is credited as the culture-shifting force that finally enabled authorities and the public to believe women in high-profile cases—Epstein, Weinstein, Nassar, Cosby, et al.—not because evidence newly emerged, but because social context shifted.
12. Epstein as an Ordinary Misogynist, Not a Genius
- Conclusion (146:10–End):
- Challenging the narrative of Epstein as a singular mastermind is crucial, the hosts argue, because it lets society off the hook for widespread misogyny and institutionalized disbelief of survivors.
“He got away with it not because he was an extraordinary man, but because he was an ordinary misogynist. And this is what happens to ordinary misogynists who commit violence against women: they get away with it... They did not outwit the system... they are simply existing inside a system that has no interest in operating to protect women.” (146:10)
- The only thing that moved the needle was collectively demanding change—the cultural shift known as #MeToo.
- Challenging the narrative of Epstein as a singular mastermind is crucial, the hosts argue, because it lets society off the hook for widespread misogyny and institutionalized disbelief of survivors.
MEMORABLE QUOTES (with Attribution & Timestamps)
-
On mythologizing predators:
“Law enforcement would rather we remember a dull man as brilliant than take a good hard look at the role they played in this absolute sideshow. And I'm sick to death of watching them ... talking about the intelligence and charm ... of an ordinary misogynist.”
— Reading from Jessica N’s Bright Young Women (139:18) -
On lie and ambition:
“Isn't it so funny that one of the themes of the Epstein story is how none of the women are credible? ... And Epstein is a liar from the jump. But when men lie, it's aspirational, baby. " (13:17, Caro)
-
On systemic injustice:
"This isn't about getting to the truth. This is about whose legal team can navigate the various loopholes more adeptly."
— Katie (73:08) -
On the legal ordeal for survivors:
“We do it [relentless scrutiny] because ... if we don't elevate them [predators] into these superhuman, evil masterminds, then we would be forced at some point to reckon with why they actually got away with what they got away with.” (134:46 onward; see conclusion)
-
On cultural change as the only fix:
"Within our current legal system, [change] can be located. It can lead to profound change in less than a matter of years. And we now know that for a fact. We saw that happen from 2015 to 2020. All it requires is for us to demand that change again and to hold to those beliefs. And I think it can happen, and I think it will happen. And I look forward to being there when it does happen." (147:18)
IMPORTANT TIMESTAMPS
- Opening banter & episode framing: 00:00–04:42
- Mythology of Epstein and why it matters: 06:50–08:20
- Epstein’s early career and gendered double standards: 08:24–19:22
- Workplace misogyny enabling Epstein: 21:26–25:19
- Epstein's “finance genius” myth deconstructed: 27:37–32:30
- Victoria’s Secret and earliest sexualization of girls: 32:52–35:25
- Media coverage—Epstein as myth: 38:08–48:13
- Palm Beach police investigation and legal failure: 48:33–61:33
- Grand jury victim-blaming: 59:05–61:33
- Epstein’s legal defense/plea deal: 66:49–73:59
- Virginia Giuffre’s experience: 78:04–101:18
- Statistical reality of sexual assault prosecutions: 125:13–129:28
- Conclusion: systemic misogyny is the throughline: 146:10–End
FINAL TAKEAWAYS
- Epstein’s case is not an aberration but a high-profile illustration of ordinary misogyny and systemic failure to believe or protect women.
- Legal and cultural systems consistently fail survivors, and the extraordinary resources of a perpetrator like Epstein simply make visible—rather than create—these failures.
- The myth of “superhuman” predators works to obscure the fact that the system works (or fails) the same way for less powerful abusers.
- Moments of genuine accountability (as during #MeToo) require broad cultural shifts, not just legal fixes or exposés of “exceptional” evil.
- True change for survivors requires sustained collective will to believe women and demand justice—every time.
For more resources or to access the referenced reporting/local journalism, visit: www.diabolicalliespod.com.