Podcast Summary: Diabolical Lies — "The Myth of Centrism"

Hosts: Katie Gatti Tassin & Caro Claire Burke
Date: February 22, 2026

Episode Overview

In this incisive episode, Katie and Caro dissect the idea of political centrism, challenging its reputation as a rational, unifying, or even coherent ideology. They contend that centrism often functions as a performance rather than a genuine political identity, masking the status quo with rhetoric of moderation and common sense. The hosts scrutinize how “centrist” pundits wield influence, examine flawed conventional wisdom about “electability,” and interrogate how the myth of centrism can hinder progress.

Key Discussion Points

1. The MLK Foundation: Centrism and Complicity

Katie opens by channeling her childhood attitude toward religious "fence-sitting" to political centrism, setting a confrontational tone:

“You need to pick a denomination. You need to pick a side. Cowards.” (00:22, Katie)
Caro reads from MLK's “Letter from Birmingham Jail,” emphasizing MLK's disappointment in the white moderate for preferring “order to justice”:

“Shallow understanding from people of goodwill is more frustrating than absolute misunderstanding from people of ill will. Lukewarm acceptance is much more bewildering than outright rejection.” (01:44, Caro quoting MLK)

2. Centrism as a Sentiment, Not a Platform

Katie explains how calls for “centrists” to solve polarization obscure the historical process of change:

“There is no coherent hallmark of this belief system, the same way that there is for conservatism or leftism.” (04:24, Katie)
Caro notes the frequent “performance” aspect of centrism:

“It’s a performance and not an identity. And I feel like Kamala Harris tried to perform centrism. These pundits try to perform centrism, but no one actually is one.” (06:45, Caro)
Caro humorously sums up the “spirit animal” of centrism as:

“Fiscally conservative, but socially liberal, I feel like, is the term you hear very often.” (03:40, Caro)

3. Centrist Pundits: Power Without Accountability

Katie and Caro identify key voices: Matt Iglesias, Jonathan Chait, Ezra Klein, and Bari Weiss, noting their prominence in media, not in politics:

“The most relevant centrist voices in society, I think, are not the politicians, but the pundits. They exist in the media ecosystem more than they exist in the political system.” (05:22, Katie)
Bari Weiss is satirized as:

“The queen of the, like, I’m the adult in the room.” (07:05, Katie)
On Ezra Klein:

“He is someone who has probably identical opinions to you and I, but feels obliged… He’s conservative passing. No, he’s centrist passing.” (06:44, Caro and Katie)

4. What Centrist Takes Sound Like: Critique and Dissection

Katie reads and deconstructs an excerpt from Matt Iglesias’ Bloomberg column calling for Democrats to moderate on fossil fuels, death penalty, late-term abortion, trans athletes, and immigration:

“Using the word heterodox to describe what are ultimately positions that conform with the status quo is rhetorically very smart.” (10:34, Katie)
Caro critiques the strategic oversimplification of wedge issues:

“These aren’t organic issues. These are issues that are astroturfed by billionaires… someone has spent half a billion dollars coming up with a wedge issue that Democrats have to respond to.” (09:27, Caro)
On the illusion of “centrism” on complex issues:

“What the fuck is a centrist position on late-term abortions? What the fuck does Matt Iglesias know about late term?” (12:08, Caro)

5. The Flawed Math of Conventional Wisdom

The hosts turn to a Jonathan Chait Atlantic piece, lampooning its framing of progressive victories as accidental or unimpressive:
- Caro:
  
  “For him to say Mamdani won by a modest margin, I’m like, oh, do you mean he overcame the greatest points deficit? … Like, what the fuck are you talking about?” (14:06, Caro)
- Katie:
  
  “He is comparing a Democrat running against a Republican to a Democrat running against another Democrat. … Mamdani beat the Republican in the race by 44 points, not 9 points.” (18:01 - 18:29, Katie)
On rhetorical techniques of centrists:

“Elite opinion laundering is a very lucrative job.” (14:06, Katie)

6. Center as Infantilizing: Language and Attitude

The hosts highlight centrist rhetoric that paints ambitious change as naive:

“Words like giddy, the scare quotes around shifting economic power... he doesn’t have to say these people are unserious… it’s clear in the language.” (21:24, Katie)
The argument that moderates alone are “realistic” is dissected and ridiculed:

“You’re just like, chewing dinner and then spitting it into my hand and saying, do you want some?” (21:14, Caro)

7. Centrist Narratives as Gatekeeping

Katie and Caro highlight how “common sense” is wielded against ambitious progress:

“Voters don’t actually punish candidates that have extreme ideas.” (22:24, Katie) “No evidence that any of this was unpopular with anyone other than the people who wrote for The Atlantic.” (22:32, Katie)
On the identity of the typical centrist pundit:

“99% of centrists are white men, followed by white women. … You have to be a white man or a woman who communicates in a certain way in order for any of this to be communicated as intelligent.” (22:42, Caro)

8. Memorable Tangents and Meta-Commentary

On elite commentator pay:

“Can we also just note these centrists are making hundreds of thousands of dollars a year. They’re like the last writers making like half a million dollars a year at these outlets.” (13:56, Caro)
On the performative aspect of “abundance” centrism, and paternity leave:

“The tragedy of heterosexuality is Derek Thompson talking about how much reading he got done on his paternity leave. It honestly gave me a nosebleed.” (24:56, Caro)
Closing rally:

“Stand on something for once in your life. Okay. Pick a side.” (23:30, Caro)

Notable Quotes & Moments (with Timestamps)

“You need to pick a denomination. You need to pick a side. Cowards.” (00:22, Katie)
“Shallow understanding from people of goodwill is more frustrating than absolute misunderstanding from people of ill will. Lukewarm acceptance is much more bewildering than outright rejection.” (01:44, Caro quoting MLK)
“It’s a performance and not an identity. Centrist passing.” (06:45, Caro)
“Elite opinion laundering is a very lucrative job.” (14:06, Katie)
“What the fuck is a centrist position on late-term abortions?” (12:08, Caro)
“You’re just like, chewing dinner and then spitting it into my hand and saying, do you want some?” (21:14, Caro)
“Stand on something for once in your life. Okay. Pick a side.” (23:30, Caro)

Segment Guide (Timestamps)

00:00 – 02:14: Intro, MLK on the white moderate, stakes of centrism
03:28 – 07:20: Definitions & Examples: What is centrism? Who performs it?
07:20 – 12:30: Dissecting centrist punditry: Matt Iglesias, rhetorical tricks, wedge issues
12:30 – 18:47: Jonathan Chait’s “common sense” electability narratives—flaws and logical fallacies
18:47 – 22:42: Infantilization and rhetorical devices centrist pundits use
22:42 – 25:15+: Identity politics: Who gets to be taken seriously as a centrist? Tangents on media privilege, abundance discourse, and paternity leave

Summary & Takeaways

Centrism is Less a Position Than a Performance: The hosts argue that “centrist” is often a label worn for credibility or detachment, not a genuine, values-driven stance.
Centrist “Common Sense” is Often Status Quo Maintenance: The myth is that centrism guarantees “electability,” when in fact it often just preserves current power structures and is used to police ambitious change.
Pundit Influence Outpaces Political Centrist Power: Media figures wield disproportionate weight in shaping what’s considered “mainstream” or “serious” political thought—despite their analysis often lacking rigor or connection to real electorate motivations.
Language as Gatekeeping: Centrist pundits routinely use language designed to infantilize radical change and launder elite preferences as practicality.
Pick a Side: The episode ends with a direct challenge to the idea that maintaining a centrism pose is a viable answer to gridlock, prejudice, or genuine social progress.

For show notes, further reading, and upcoming episodes, visit www.diabolicalliespod.com

Podcast Summary: Diabolical Lies — "The Myth of Centrism"

Hosts: Katie Gatti Tassin & Caro Claire Burke
Date: February 22, 2026

Episode Overview

Key Discussion Points

1. The MLK Foundation: Centrism and Complicity

Katie opens by channeling her childhood attitude toward religious "fence-sitting" to political centrism, setting a confrontational tone:

“You need to pick a denomination. You need to pick a side. Cowards.” (00:22, Katie)
Caro reads from MLK's “Letter from Birmingham Jail,” emphasizing MLK's disappointment in the white moderate for preferring “order to justice”:

“Shallow understanding from people of goodwill is more frustrating than absolute misunderstanding from people of ill will. Lukewarm acceptance is much more bewildering than outright rejection.” (01:44, Caro quoting MLK)

2. Centrism as a Sentiment, Not a Platform

Katie explains how calls for “centrists” to solve polarization obscure the historical process of change:

“There is no coherent hallmark of this belief system, the same way that there is for conservatism or leftism.” (04:24, Katie)
Caro notes the frequent “performance” aspect of centrism:

“It’s a performance and not an identity. And I feel like Kamala Harris tried to perform centrism. These pundits try to perform centrism, but no one actually is one.” (06:45, Caro)
Caro humorously sums up the “spirit animal” of centrism as:

“Fiscally conservative, but socially liberal, I feel like, is the term you hear very often.” (03:40, Caro)

3. Centrist Pundits: Power Without Accountability

Katie and Caro identify key voices: Matt Iglesias, Jonathan Chait, Ezra Klein, and Bari Weiss, noting their prominence in media, not in politics:

“The most relevant centrist voices in society, I think, are not the politicians, but the pundits. They exist in the media ecosystem more than they exist in the political system.” (05:22, Katie)
Bari Weiss is satirized as:

“The queen of the, like, I’m the adult in the room.” (07:05, Katie)
On Ezra Klein:

“He is someone who has probably identical opinions to you and I, but feels obliged… He’s conservative passing. No, he’s centrist passing.” (06:44, Caro and Katie)

4. What Centrist Takes Sound Like: Critique and Dissection

Katie reads and deconstructs an excerpt from Matt Iglesias’ Bloomberg column calling for Democrats to moderate on fossil fuels, death penalty, late-term abortion, trans athletes, and immigration:

“Using the word heterodox to describe what are ultimately positions that conform with the status quo is rhetorically very smart.” (10:34, Katie)
Caro critiques the strategic oversimplification of wedge issues:

“These aren’t organic issues. These are issues that are astroturfed by billionaires… someone has spent half a billion dollars coming up with a wedge issue that Democrats have to respond to.” (09:27, Caro)
On the illusion of “centrism” on complex issues:

“What the fuck is a centrist position on late-term abortions? What the fuck does Matt Iglesias know about late term?” (12:08, Caro)

5. The Flawed Math of Conventional Wisdom

The hosts turn to a Jonathan Chait Atlantic piece, lampooning its framing of progressive victories as accidental or unimpressive:
- Caro:
  
  “For him to say Mamdani won by a modest margin, I’m like, oh, do you mean he overcame the greatest points deficit? … Like, what the fuck are you talking about?” (14:06, Caro)
- Katie:
  
  “He is comparing a Democrat running against a Republican to a Democrat running against another Democrat. … Mamdani beat the Republican in the race by 44 points, not 9 points.” (18:01 - 18:29, Katie)
On rhetorical techniques of centrists:

“Elite opinion laundering is a very lucrative job.” (14:06, Katie)

6. Center as Infantilizing: Language and Attitude

The hosts highlight centrist rhetoric that paints ambitious change as naive:

“Words like giddy, the scare quotes around shifting economic power... he doesn’t have to say these people are unserious… it’s clear in the language.” (21:24, Katie)
The argument that moderates alone are “realistic” is dissected and ridiculed:

“You’re just like, chewing dinner and then spitting it into my hand and saying, do you want some?” (21:14, Caro)

7. Centrist Narratives as Gatekeeping

Katie and Caro highlight how “common sense” is wielded against ambitious progress:

“Voters don’t actually punish candidates that have extreme ideas.” (22:24, Katie) “No evidence that any of this was unpopular with anyone other than the people who wrote for The Atlantic.” (22:32, Katie)
On the identity of the typical centrist pundit:

“99% of centrists are white men, followed by white women. … You have to be a white man or a woman who communicates in a certain way in order for any of this to be communicated as intelligent.” (22:42, Caro)

8. Memorable Tangents and Meta-Commentary

On elite commentator pay:

“Can we also just note these centrists are making hundreds of thousands of dollars a year. They’re like the last writers making like half a million dollars a year at these outlets.” (13:56, Caro)
On the performative aspect of “abundance” centrism, and paternity leave:

“The tragedy of heterosexuality is Derek Thompson talking about how much reading he got done on his paternity leave. It honestly gave me a nosebleed.” (24:56, Caro)
Closing rally:

“Stand on something for once in your life. Okay. Pick a side.” (23:30, Caro)

Notable Quotes & Moments (with Timestamps)

“You need to pick a denomination. You need to pick a side. Cowards.” (00:22, Katie)
“Shallow understanding from people of goodwill is more frustrating than absolute misunderstanding from people of ill will. Lukewarm acceptance is much more bewildering than outright rejection.” (01:44, Caro quoting MLK)
“It’s a performance and not an identity. Centrist passing.” (06:45, Caro)
“Elite opinion laundering is a very lucrative job.” (14:06, Katie)
“What the fuck is a centrist position on late-term abortions?” (12:08, Caro)
“You’re just like, chewing dinner and then spitting it into my hand and saying, do you want some?” (21:14, Caro)
“Stand on something for once in your life. Okay. Pick a side.” (23:30, Caro)

Segment Guide (Timestamps)

00:00 – 02:14: Intro, MLK on the white moderate, stakes of centrism
03:28 – 07:20: Definitions & Examples: What is centrism? Who performs it?
07:20 – 12:30: Dissecting centrist punditry: Matt Iglesias, rhetorical tricks, wedge issues
12:30 – 18:47: Jonathan Chait’s “common sense” electability narratives—flaws and logical fallacies
18:47 – 22:42: Infantilization and rhetorical devices centrist pundits use
22:42 – 25:15+: Identity politics: Who gets to be taken seriously as a centrist? Tangents on media privilege, abundance discourse, and paternity leave

Summary & Takeaways

Centrism is Less a Position Than a Performance: The hosts argue that “centrist” is often a label worn for credibility or detachment, not a genuine, values-driven stance.
Centrist “Common Sense” is Often Status Quo Maintenance: The myth is that centrism guarantees “electability,” when in fact it often just preserves current power structures and is used to police ambitious change.
Pundit Influence Outpaces Political Centrist Power: Media figures wield disproportionate weight in shaping what’s considered “mainstream” or “serious” political thought—despite their analysis often lacking rigor or connection to real electorate motivations.
Language as Gatekeeping: Centrist pundits routinely use language designed to infantilize radical change and launder elite preferences as practicality.
Pick a Side: The episode ends with a direct challenge to the idea that maintaining a centrism pose is a viable answer to gridlock, prejudice, or genuine social progress.

For show notes, further reading, and upcoming episodes, visit www.diabolicalliespod.com

wavePod

The Myth of Centrism

Summary

Podcast Summary: Diabolical Lies — "The Myth of Centrism"

Episode Overview

Key Discussion Points

1. The MLK Foundation: Centrism and Complicity

2. Centrism as a Sentiment, Not a Platform

3. Centrist Pundits: Power Without Accountability

4. What Centrist Takes Sound Like: Critique and Dissection

5. The Flawed Math of Conventional Wisdom

6. Center as Infantilizing: Language and Attitude

7. Centrist Narratives as Gatekeeping

8. Memorable Tangents and Meta-Commentary

Notable Quotes & Moments (with Timestamps)

Segment Guide (Timestamps)

Summary & Takeaways

Transcript

Summary

Podcast Summary: Diabolical Lies — "The Myth of Centrism"

Episode Overview

Key Discussion Points

1. The MLK Foundation: Centrism and Complicity

2. Centrism as a Sentiment, Not a Platform

3. Centrist Pundits: Power Without Accountability

4. What Centrist Takes Sound Like: Critique and Dissection

5. The Flawed Math of Conventional Wisdom

6. Center as Infantilizing: Language and Attitude

7. Centrist Narratives as Gatekeeping

8. Memorable Tangents and Meta-Commentary

Notable Quotes & Moments (with Timestamps)

Segment Guide (Timestamps)

Summary & Takeaways