Fame Under Fire – Blake V Justin: Sex allegations and talking to the dead

Podcast: Fame Under Fire (BBC Sounds)
Host: Anushka Mutanda-Doughty
Guests: Sean Kent (criminal defense attorney), Eta O’Brien (intimacy coordinator)
Date: August 28, 2025

Overview

This episode of Fame Under Fire delves into the complex, headline-dominating civil lawsuit filed by Blake Lively against Justin Baldoni, Jamie Heath, Wayfarer Studios, and others involved in the film "It Ends With Us." The episode breaks down the legal, personal, and industry implications of the allegations, covering issues ranging from sexual harassment to alleged retaliation, defamation, and the evolving standards of intimacy coordination in film. Anushka Mutanda-Doughty is joined by legal expert Sean Kent and pioneering intimacy coordinator Eta O’Brien, offering listeners a clear, factual, and engaging examination of the case and its broader importance.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Civil vs. Criminal Lawsuits

(02:11 – 03:05)

• Sean Kent clarifies the fundamental differences:
  • Civil lawsuits: Risk of financial loss; lower burden of proof ("preponderance of the evidence" – did it more likely happen).
  • Criminal cases: Risk of losing freedom (jail); much higher burden of proof ("beyond reasonable doubt").
• Quote:

  "In a civil lawsuit, you're looking at losing your money. In a criminal lawsuit... you're looking at losing your freedom." – Sean Kent (02:13)

2. Allegations Against Justin Baldoni and Production

(03:05 – 17:02)

• The lawsuit, filed by Blake Lively in late 2024 and amended in early 2025, centers on:

  • Sexual harassment: Allegations include inappropriate comments, uncoordinated intimacy, added graphic sex scenes, and intrusive questions about Lively’s personal life.

    • Memorable Quote:

      "[Baldoni] intrusively asked Ms. Lively whether she and her husband climax simultaneously during intercourse." – Anushka Mutanda Doughty (05:06)

  • Hostile work environment: The pattern and/or severity of the allegations are key to the case.

    • Legal context: Sean Kent explains the two standards: “pervasive pattern” or “severe act” of harassment. (06:23 – 08:43)
      • Memorable Example:

        "It traumatized me. It is the pubic hair on the coke can. It makes people go, huh, I can't believe that happened." – Sean Kent (14:33)

  • Birthing scene incident: Lively alleges she was pressured into partial nudity without proper protocols (closed set, modesty, or intimacy coordination), making her feel humiliated and unsafe.

    • No industry standards or guild guidelines were followed—a key claim in the suit.
    • Legal significance: While not binding, violating industry standards supports claims of a hostile environment.

  • Other allegations:

    • Baldoni claimed to have "spoken to" Lively’s deceased father, causing emotional distress.
    • Lively was denied proper lactation breaks, resulting in health complications.
• Defendants have categorically denied all allegations, labeling them “false, outrageous, and intentionally salacious.” (03:19, 27:04)

3. Power Dynamics and Industry Standards

(09:56 – 14:48)

• The discussion underscores the impact of power imbalance, particularly in hierarchical creative industries.
• Intent and welcome/unwelcome nature of behavior: Both subjective (the employee's feelings) and objective (what a reasonable person would conclude) standards are important.
• Industry practices (e.g., having a closed set, employing an intimacy coordinator) are relevant legally as representative "norms," even if not strictly binding.

4. Retaliation, Defamation, and Astroturfing

(17:22 – 25:48)

• Retaliation claims: Lively alleges a concerted effort was launched to undermine her career and public image, involving PR agencies, scenario planning, and potentially planted stories.
• Defamation and False Light:
  • For public figures, defamation requires proving actual malice.
  • False light involves purposely misrepresenting someone to harm their reputation.
    • Quote:

      "They're making a concerted effort to make me look awful. They're creating a false narrative about me that's just not true." – Sean Kent (21:22)

• Discovery: Legal process by which both sides disclose all relevant documents, texts, and communications — a central aspect because it exposes intent and real-time strategies (18:12 – 19:16).
• Notable mention of a billionaire backer allegedly prepared to spend “$100 million to ruin the lives of Ms. Lively and her family” (24:22), underscoring the scale of resources leveraged in such disputes.

5. Counterlawsuit by Baldoni

(25:48 – 27:04)

• In January 2025, Baldoni files a countersuit for civil extortion, defamation, and invasion of privacy, alleging Lively spread doctored information.
• Judge dismisses much of the countersuit, ruling lawsuit statements are privileged — to encourage the reporting of genuine grievances.
  • Quote:

    "You cannot sue somebody for stuff that they put inside of a lawsuit... We want people to be able to bring lawsuits." – Sean Kent (26:25)

Memorable Moments & Notable Quotes

• Justin Baldoni’s TED quote (on paper vs. practice):

  "Are you confident enough to listen to the women in your life, to hear their ideas and their solutions, to hold their anguish and actually believe them...?" – Justin Baldoni (03:53)

• Blake Lively on the film and its meaning:

  "This movie is such an opportunity, such a responsibility, when you're servicing a group of people who care so much about the source material... it’s every single color." – Blake Lively (17:02)

• PR Crisis Texts:

  “We can't write, we will destroy her.” – Melissa Nathan, PR team (23:48)

• Discovery’s impact:

  “That little sentence like that is... We know their intent. We know they were going to destroy her. So these are the things we know. Imagine what we don't know. That's what's going to end up happening.” – Sean Kent (23:48)

Special Segment: Talking With an Intimacy Coordinator

(28:07 – End)

What is an Intimacy Coordinator?

• Eta O’Brien explains:

  “An intimacy coordinator is a practitioner who puts in place professional process and procedures when working with intimate content.” (28:45)

Key Roles and Best Practices

• Coordinates every aspect of intimate scenes: script conversations, consent, choreography.
• Consent and comfort: Actors’ boundaries are closely respected; everything is agreed ahead of time.
• Discusses formerly taboo or awkward topics like erections ("call a timeout with a pre-agreed word like 'Wakanda'") and menstruation (timing, breaks).

Props and Tools

• Props like “banana cushions” and modesty garments prevent genital contact and ensure comfort.

  “You don’t... it really helps to not necessarily have genitalia touching. So we start with cushions like this.” – Eta O’Brien (34:43)

• Quote:

  “I think of them like the stunt coordinator's crash mats.” (35:50)

Changing Culture

• Reflects on unsafe and unclear experiences before the role existed and points listeners to published guidelines for anyone in the industry.

  “Intentionally, they're there for anybody to go to. Please go to them, read them, and then put it in place...” – Eta O’Brien (36:03)

Timestamps for Critical Segments

| Time | Segment | |-----------|-----------------------------------------------------| | 00:06 | Introduction; framing the episode | | 02:11 | Civil vs. criminal law explained | | 03:05 | Breakdown of Lively’s main allegations | | 05:22 | Legal standards for sexual harassment | | 09:56 | Power dynamics and "industry standard" discussion | | 14:52 | Other lawsuit accusations (e.g., speaking to the dead) | | 17:02 | Retaliation, PR, and defamation | | 18:12 | What discovery means in lawsuits | | 23:48 | Discovery reveals (PR tactics and damaging quotes) | | 25:48 | Baldoni’s countersuit and legal privilege | | 28:07 | Transition to intimacy coordinator segment | | 28:45 | What does an intimacy coordinator do? | | 34:43 | Use of props for actor safety and comfort | | 36:03 | Changing attitudes and new industry standards |

Tone & Style

Throughout, the episode balances rigor and approachability: Anushka’s hosting is sharp, inquisitive, and sometimes irreverent. Sean Kent brings accessible legal explanations, humor, and pop culture references, while Eta O’Brien adopts a practical, reassuring tone as she demystifies boundaries in screen intimacy.

Summary

The Blake Lively vs. Justin Baldoni/Wayfarer Studios lawsuit is a case study in celebrity power, the headlines generated by the #MeToo era, and the complexities of gender, consent, and reputation in entertainment. The podcast carefully highlights the facts, the legal nuances, the human realities of working on film sets, and the growing structures—like intimacy coordination—designed to keep artists safer. It offers both a richer understanding of the lawsuit and practical insights into the changing culture of film and celebrity.

For further questions or future topics, listeners are encouraged to message the show at 03306-78114.