← Fame Under Fire
Fame Under Fire
Kanye West’s ex-assistant 'has gone into hiding' after filing sexual assault claims
00:28:42
Kanye West allegations, Nicki Minaj v SZA and Sean ‘Diddy’ Combs’s pre-sentencing news
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- [00:01]
Anoushka Mutandadawati
BBC Sounds Music Radio podcasts. Hello and welcome to Fame Under Fire from BBC Sounds with me, Anoushka Mutandadawati. For those of you who have been with us since Diddy on trial, welcome back. And to our listeners who are dipping in a toe and seeing if they like it, this is the place to come for a facts first approach to the topics dominating our timelines. When celebrities, sports stars, politicians, influencers and royalty find themselves in the firing line, whether it's a law suit or a scandal, we are going to pre bunk, debunk, fact check, myth bust, interrogate, and of course answer your questions. You can send them to me on social media or WhatsApp at 0330678114 that's 0330678. 114. Now, just a warning before we get into things. This episode contains descriptions of rape and sexual assault. Coming up today, allegations of sex trafficking, sexual battery, rape and false imprisonment. I'm not talking about Diddy, but another.
- [01:04]
Sean Kent
Legendary rapper, he calls himself a walking me too. He says I'm a big time perv. He talks about how he likes to sleep with his employees in his office.
- [01:14]
Anoushka Mutandadawati
Nicki Minaj beefing people on X. I love hip hop music and I love pop music and I don't want to be forced to choose. And you're saying Anushka, what's new? It's her and somebody every week. But the latest spat with SZA reveals some really interesting facts about the music industry. And perhaps your favorite favorite artist isn't as big as you think they are. And lastly, we brought you the results of the Diddy trial from the courtroom. Three weeks ago, Diddy kept his head down while the verdict was being read out. But after it was done, he dropped to his knees and started praying, hands on the chair in front of him with his head down while his lawyers congratulated him and hugged each other. Gosh, you can hear how stressed I was in that clip. But today we will be updating you on the sentencing and the prosecution's latest tactics portraying Cassie and Jane as co conspirators. What on earth is going on there? Joining me today from the US is our resident criminal defense and my mom's favorite American, Sean Kent from South Carolina. Hi, Shawn.
- [02:06]
Molly McPherson
Hey, Nushka. How are you doing?
- [02:08]
Anoushka Mutandadawati
I'm doing good, thank you. And crisis PR manager Molly McPherson joining from just north of Boston. Hi, Molly.
- [02:14]
Eric Fadali
Hello. I hope someday I can be one of your mom's favorites as well.
- [02:18]
Anoushka Mutandadawati
Oh, I'm sure she's got space for two. Now, the first thing I want to talk about today kind of came out of being in New York doing the Diddy trial. You get to know the lawyers that are around. You sit next to them in the courtroom. You meet them outside in the lines. And one person I chatt to a lot was Eric Fadali from the Lisa Bloom law firm. He was representing Dawn Richard and another one of Diddy's accusers. And he brought to my attention another rapper who has just been hit with an amended lawsuit accusing him of assault, battery, sexual battery, sex trafficking, stalking and false imprisonment. But little did I know that very rapper was actually going to turn up at the Diddy trial around mid morning after the first witness got off the stand, there was a break and all of a sudden there was a flurry of reporters running up and downstairs from the main courtroom to the overflow rooms. There was rumors that Kanye or Ye was spotted coming into the building were later confirmed. There's photos and videos of him arriving. Lots of reporters saw him. That was Isabella Gomez Sarmiento from NPR reporting on Kanye or Ye's fleeting appearance at the Sean Diddy Combs trial. Now, there are a number of additional allegations in this updated lawsuit filed by Lauren Pixota, Kanye's former chief of staff. Before we get into those, we did ask Ye's representatives and lawyers for a response, but haven't heard back yet. His company, Yeezy, did send this statement to USA Today. Lauren Pixota's amended complaint is the fourth version she has advanced. Each new revision contradicts the other. Each is more absurd and outlandish than all previous claims Combined. Does Ms. Pichota actually believe her confabulations? We cannot know. But this breathless new installment of fantasy fiction discredits all past, present and future testimony. The spokesperson added. The courts are no place to indulge delusions and mental disturbances. We stand ready to annihilate Ms. Pushota's tall tales before a jury. An exoneration so inevitable that even she, lost in her fog of fantasy, must surely see it coming. Yes, we got some strong words from his reps there. I just want to say what's alleged in this lawsuit contains some really graphic descriptions of rape and sexual assault. We have an allegation of oral rape that Lauren says she suffered at the hands of Kanye during the recording of his Donda album. She alleges that he repeatedly had sex with Yeezy staff members and would record it, literally taking people into the bathroom in the offices and then sending said recordings around to the rest of the office and to Lauren herself. She said she was frequently exposed to acts of anti Semitism, forcing staff members to draw swastikas and interrogating staff members he suspected were Jewish. After firing her, she says, he moved into her building. She then says after she filed her first complaint on June 3, six days later, swatting began. Now, if you're not familiar with the term, this is when you call local law enforcement and you allege some really horrific crimes going on. Kidnap, child sexual abuse, you say it's happening in this house. There is obviously an immediate and very strong response from law enforcement agencies, including homes being raided. She says this has happened to her multiple times in the place where she's been living, and she suspects that it is at the direction of Kanye. Molly, I want to get your initial reaction to hearing that.
- [05:25]
Eric Fadali
Yeah, well, Kanye's notoriety is certainly a part of the brand and similar to Sean Combs. So it's. It's not a surprise that when there's one legal action against one, you know, famous, you know, titan in that industry, that a legal outfit would find a way to have it happen with Kanye as well. It fits the pattern. But also, in terms of this notoriety, it goes both ways. You know, it can help you sell albums, it can help you with your influence. But these legal stories have a way of sticking, certainly, because they're followed by the news and they're followed by the public. So it will be interesting to see what happens.
- [06:01]
Anoushka Mutandadawati
And, Sean, I know reading sort of horrific allegations is somewhat your bread and butter, but hearing that, what was the initial reaction?
- [06:08]
Molly McPherson
I'm old enough to remember that when lawsuits were filed, they were not filed. So salacious as they are now, because now they're all reading, like, tabloid journalism. Been doing this 25 years before. We just used to have. And we were taught in law school, when you make a lawsuit, you make it very generic. You don't come out as specific as these lawsuits are. So when I'm reading these now, it's almost like the lawsuits are written for public opinion, knowing that people are going to be reading them specifically, even when you are. And this is more Molly's bread and butter. When I heard the statement back from Kanye, you never used to hear these, we're going to destroy you. You never heard these type of things or just very generalization. So when I read that lawsuit and when I read at the beginning of read, like the intro to a movie, Kanye is a misogynist. Kanye is a racist. Kanye is a bad person. You never saw that stuff before in the introductory paragraph to a lawsuit. So to me, it wasn't that I was surprised. I was more surprised on how much that lawsuit was written for other people to read it that aren't court personnel.
- [07:08]
Anoushka Mutandadawati
As I said, I spoke to Lauren's lawyer when I was in New York, and he fleshed out more of the detail of this lawsuit.
- [07:13]
Sean Kent
It's a lot of what Mr. West has tweeted and has admitted. Pretty remarkably shocking, actually. I've represented a lot of alleged victims against very high profile individuals with large platforms. I had never in my life, or at least in my career, ever seen a defendant sort of tweet out admissions to the allegations. So, for instance, you know, he says he used to expletive F word his employees in his office. He actually said that. And that's sort of a part of our, you know, the allegations by Ms. Fashoda. He said that employee keyword hits different. I need the whole office expletive proof. I mean, really sort of graphic admissions. He calls himself a walking me too. He says I'm a big time perv. He talks about how he likes to sleep with his employees in his office. If a CEO don't hug you inappropriately, he's an expletive for homosexual. I mean, just really sort of jarring admissions that really mirror the allegations of Ms. Bushode. He describes these inappropriate hugs he liked to do with his employees or he would press himself inappropriately against that without their consent. You know, these are all admissions by Mr. West, public admissions on his X profile that really beer a lot of the allegations that Ms. Kushoda has made. So again, we're sort of in a situation where I really look forward to taking Mr. West at the deposition and to confront him with these admissions that really sort of echo what's been alleged by Vanessa Shodda.
- [08:35]
Anoushka Mutandadawati
And he speaks about. She alleges that he sent messages and those tweets you just read, he mentions it there as well. Having sex with employees around the office, being somewhere where he would have sexual or intimate encounters. Has Lauren spoken on what it was like to work there and what the culture was like?
- [08:52]
Sean Kent
Well, I mean, I can tell you that she no longer works there. You know, not only does she not work there, but the aftermath of working for Mr. West, working for Ye has. And bringing a lawsuit against Mr. West has caused anyone to hide it. She is, and I'm not overstating it, she is literally. I'm not allowed to disclose where she lives. She is literally in hiding, afraid, scared, and has basically, you know, deleted pretty much her Entire Internet presence and has just sort of sitting around in hiding, hoping, you know, letting this lawsuit play out. It's really sad. And, you know, certainly she's gone through a lot. She is suffering and has been suffering since she began working for Ms. Dwellis.
- [09:29]
Anoushka Mutandadawati
That was Eric Fadali from the Bloom law firm telling me more about that lawsuit. Molly. The accusations are extremely serious, but the online reaction kind of now with everything ye does is, well, it's Kanye. What do you expect? Has he, in a way, built the perfect defense against any wrongdoing by saying and doing the unthinkable?
- [09:50]
Eric Fadali
What's interesting about the response? And Sean pointed this out, you know, that was a legal response that was written for the public and not just for public consumption, but for public swaying as well, with influence. What's interesting is that Kanye's brand of notoriety is always to be kind of off brand, to be outrageous, to say the outrageous things. He always pushes the envelope. But this is a statement for the first time where I feel that Kanye is worried. That Kanye is worried about the charges. Significantly, the timing of it, you know, coming after Sean combs that to have that legal rebuke, you know, in this statement right off bat goes against his traditional brand. So it tells me that they are worried there, but his influence is about the outrageous. So now for him to be the appalled person and to attack also the accuser, which is typical from a legal playbook that happens all the time. But that's new for Kanye, and that's what I find interesting from this as well.
- [10:54]
Anoushka Mutandadawati
There's some really interesting legal questions, Sean. Kanye has said he was Bipolar, diagnosed in 2016 after suffering a mental health crisis. Then he said he was misdiagnosed and he's actually autistic. He's faced a backlash over a ser series of chaotic interviews and severely anti Semitic social media posts. He's also tweeted that he was molested by his cousin when he was a child, that his children are being sex trafficked by his ex wife, Kim Kardashian, and he used a slur to refer to Jay Z and Beyonce's very young son Sean. Is there a legal route for saying my client can't be held responsible for their actions? And if so, could we end up seeing some of these tweets introduced as evidence of that in this court of law?
- [11:38]
Molly McPherson
So that's a two part question. The answer your first part simply no. Mental intent, sanity, competency, those are criminal elements. So if he was facing criminal charges, somebody literally could say Kanye west could not form the mens rea, if you will, the intent to be criminally responsible for his actions. That's what he could be making the argument for. In a criminal parlance, you can tell a court, you can tell a jury, I could not form the necessary intent. Look at my tweets. Look at me, I'm nutty. Look at the crazy stuff that I've done. That does not save you from a civil lawsuit. Civilly, he could be soon. Whether you are insane, whether you are competent, does not change the fact that you've actually done something. As far as the tweets, the tweets will be used in the civil court, not. And that's why the second part of your question, not to show his level of sanity, but to show his level of culpability. So I think those tweets will be used. I think he'll be sitting for a deposition. During his deposition, the civil side will have the right to say, you tweeted this, you tweeted this, you tweeted this, you tweeted this. And he can sit in that deposition all he wants. He could be sitting in a chicken suit. He could be eating, sucking on lollipops, playing in his nose, looking nutty as he wants to. But in the civil parlance, that will be used against him in the deposition to show that he is civilly responsible for what the plaintiff is saying.
- [13:09]
Anoushka Mutandadawati
That's really interesting. And also, we have heard from Kanye how much he enjoys being deposed and says it's the only time he gets to truly be himself. Molly, I can see you nodding there. I mean, yes, I saw the clip.
- [13:20]
Eric Fadali
You know, certainly that is. That is part of his brand, you know, and he laughs about it, you know, but now it's. This is a serious matter for him. So that's why I think we're seeing shifts in his perception management and reputation management around this case.
- [13:35]
Molly McPherson
The thing that people don't understand, we always say this statement, we always say that criminal charges are harder to prove, which they are, than civil cases. If you look throughout history, which people don't actually ever talk about, what takes down powerful men, powerful women, powerful people are their own depositions. If you watch the Bill Cosby deposition, if you watch the O.J. simpson deposition, because these depositions, when you're allowed to ask all these questions, and you do not have the right to say, I plead the Fifth, I'm not answering that. That's what takes people down. Kanye sitting for a deposition is his lawyer's worst nightmare, period.
- [14:18]
Anoushka Mutandadawati
And Eric has made very clear to me that he is looking forward to putting a lot of those tweets and a lot of the statements that Kanye has made to him in that deposition, which is happening in August. And we will follow and of course keep you updated. Just a reminder, though, Kanye West's representatives have strongly denied all these allegations. Still to come on Fame Under Fire, we'll be bringing you the latest developments ahead of the Diddy sentencing. But first on X, these two artists have been going back and forth. I want to do music that I love to do and it makes me happy. And my die hard fans have really understood me and they've held me down and that's all I can hope for. My voice is just what it is. I think at my most natural, when I'm not thinking, I sing from my tummy and I'm loud as hell. That is the hugely successful female, I mean, queen of rap, Nicki Minaj and sza, who is leading the game in R and B, who have been rowing on social media. But it brings up some really interesting but perhaps little known facts about the music industry. But before that, Molly, Nicki Minaj. Oh, Nicki. In the past, what shall I say, five to seven years, who hasn't she got at? I remember when she was beefing with Boris Johnson. I mean, she's not afraid to get into rows on social media.
- [15:37]
Eric Fadali
Absolutely. Because social media will turn any disagreement into a spectacle. And social media loves a spectacle, you know, particularly if there's any type of beef. I mean, it's just something that brings the algorithm in. So not only does social media platforms like beefs, but artists can like them as well. Because it's not just about influence. Sometimes it's just, you know, reputation and what draws people in. And that makes you kind of a bigger artist, increasing your visibility.
- [16:05]
Anoushka Mutandadawati
And Nikki said all sorts on Twitter. The COVID vaccine enlarges your ball sack. Not true. But when it comes to sza, in between referring to her as a yodeling fool who needs auto tune and SZA saying she has declined two previous requests to collab with Minaj, some interesting assertions were made about who is a bigger artist, especially when it comes to filling out an arena. And it's interesting when you start to get into these distinctions because a lot of the time with Nikki and sza, who are both both really, really at the forefront of the game, it's well, I've got this many millions of streams and I've got this many monthly listeners on Spotify. But the assertions Nikki was making is I can fill an arena tour and you can't. But both of them have really huge online fan bases. And Nikki's fans are known as. The Barbs are part of a group of Barb Nation. They're renowned for their protection of her.
- [16:54]
Molly McPherson
Literally everything.
- [16:55]
Eric Fadali
I love being a Barb.
- [16:56]
Anoushka Mutandadawati
Being a Barb is amazing.
- [16:58]
Eric Fadali
Nicki Minaj is my idol.
- [16:59]
Anoushka Mutandadawati
Nikki's been doing her stuff for years. She don't give a F. She's always, you know, out there setting trends and you gotta have a level of don't give an F to get to where you at. So, Molly, we can hear from that clip on MuchMusic, being a Barb is a different level of fandom, isn't it? It's another level. Taylor Swift, the Swifties. There's a distinction there.
- [17:17]
Eric Fadali
Oh, absolutely. And what she has is coveted not only in music, but in politics as well. And that's a base. The bass does the work for you. The bass is going to lift you up, the bass is going to give you visibility. The base is also going to buy tickets. So that is clutch to have in any type of industry because a base also means mobilization. So no matter what you have to do, if it's downloading a new song, if it's buying tickets, if it's standing up and fighting for you, it's really hard to go after the base. And people do get intimidated by that. Even journalists do. They don't want to go against an artist if there's a base behind it. So that's a smart move for any artist.
- [17:58]
Anoushka Mutandadawati
Yeah, absolutely. And the Barbs, maybe next to the Beehive are, are up there as some of the most ferocious. And Molly, what you were saying there about the base, that becomes really relevant when you start to look at pur sales. So pure album sales are when a consumer actually buys the album old school style. Album equivalent sales is when one album is streamed enough times that it counts as a pure sale. So let's look, let's do some comparisons. At Nikki's last project, Pink Friday 2 and SZA's last album, SOS, these are the figures from Billboard. Pink Friday 2 got 92,000 pure sales. So the barbs, they mobilized, whereas SOS got 7,500 pure sales. When it comes to album equivalent sales, Pink Friday 2 got 228,000, but SOS got 318,000. So overall SZA got more. But the thing with album equivalent numbers is they're not that straightforward. Pure sales are more of an indication of a fan base and their commitment to the artist, which then directly relates to ticket sales and filling those arenas. But when it comes to album equivalent sales, if your song gets added to a popular playlist like rap caviar on Spotify that contributes to. To your streams doesn't necessarily mean everyone who's listening to that playlist loves your music. There's also been allegations from Nicki Minaj and other prominent figures that labels are using bots who basically stream and restream an album millions of times to artificially boost album equivalent sales. Big companies deny these claims. Molly, surely this is a new age issue, an issue of the streaming age. How can you actually judge your success as an artist list?
- [19:35]
Eric Fadali
Yeah, I mean, that's certainly those numbers, that's a data point that tells you about what reputation is, but also what influence is influence on social media. You know, it. It really does weight different than actual influence out there. And what it all comes down to is money, you know, and that's where people kind of hang it up or cancel tours or pull back when they actually realize that the real people, the, the physical people aren't there. So it's hard to compare an actual person, you know, putting money down, going to a concert, filling an arena compared to streaming. Visibility is key, but dollar signs are more valid.
- [20:14]
Anoushka Mutandadawati
Well, there you have it. I'm sure Nikki will keep us very busy on next with whoever she's going to beef next. But now we have to talk about Diddy. I mean, I thought it'd be a quick update, but there's actually a fair amount to get into. And that is because I didn't realize how much interesting lawyering takes place when you get to sentencing. And the last you heard from me, Diddy was cleared of sex trafficking and racketeering with conspiracy. The racketeering from member rico, that's the big one. He was convicted of two counts of transportation for prostitution and subsequently denied bail by the judge, Judge Arun Subramaniam, who cited his history of domestic violence. Sean, sentencing is scheduled for October. The number one question is how long is he going to get?
- [20:58]
Molly McPherson
And that's the penultimate question, isn't it? And that's not something that everybody knows. And I think one of the things that's most fascinating about that is if you were watching at the end of the trial when there was an argument on whether or not he should be granted bail, the United States of America came in and open court and told the judge, he's looking at 20 years. And I think immediately when I told you, I was like, no, he's not. And then later they had to step back from themselves and basically said, okay, it's actually five to six years. People get mistaken that they assume that the prosecution or the defense makes a determination on how much time Combs is going to be looking at. Now there is a truth in sentencing, if you will, under the federal system because they want everybody to be treated exactly the same. We have a very specific number that makes a determination on how much somebody's looking at. So the reason that the sentencing is taking so incredibly long from the trial, that's the first thing. If I was somebody, I'm like, wait a minute, he was found guilty how long ago? Sentence him and be done with it. Well, what they do is they have something called the probation department. Our probation department creates what's called a psr, a pre sentence report. The pre sentence report is when that probation department goes and they look into Diddy's background, they look into his past, they get a report, they get the report to defense, they get the report to the prosecution, they give it to the judge. This is what we think he's looking at. Both sides look at it. The prosecution can say, I think that number is way too low. The defense looks at it, we think that number is way too high. The defense says, we want to challenge that report. And so then on the sentencing date, they both can put witnesses on the stand, they can fight, they can argue, and then it becomes another trial. The defense is thinking based upon the way that I read the guideline range that Diddy should be looking at between 21 and 27 months on the guideline range. The federal government is saying he's looking at 51 to 63 months on the guideline range. So realistically that number can go up and down depending on victims, witnesses, so many people testifying, his history, his prior conduct, if you will. So I think that's a long about way of saying I don't know the answer to your question.
- [23:04]
Anoushka Mutandadawati
Well, no, it's, it's a lot clearer actually because there's so many things that they're now going to do to argue that he deserves more time in particular from the prosecution. And some of those, as I was reading, I was going, what the hell? Cassie and Jane are now defined as co conspirators, I thought were victims. I've just spent the past 12 months of my life referring to them as victims. What is going on there? I mean you spoke to me about that and that's where the clever lawyering starts, really.
- [23:27]
Molly McPherson
No, we always talk about everybody thinks being a lawyer is the trial, that's the Easy part. The real lawyering happens right now from both sides that they're trying to, the federal government is trying to come up with, hate to say it this way, creative ways to get that guideline range number higher. What they're trying to do is saying if there are multiple victims, victims, multiple sex workers, multiple people who are in who he had trafficked across state lines for prostitution, they can get his numbers to go up. And so if they can make these, I don't even know what to call them anymore because when you got victims, whatever, they can make them co defendants, then they can increase the number of people that both of them brought across lines. They can say that Diddy was the leader of an organization, they can increase his role enhancement and they can take that 51 to 63 month number to a higher range on the guideline and say judge, he's actually looking at eight years, not five years.
- [24:24]
Anoushka Mutandadawati
So now we have the seven escorts now being referred to as victims. And then yeah, like you say, Diddy was in a managerial capacity, the prosecution have said, or basically organizing Cassie and Jane to fulfill that function of transporting people for prostitution. If they can't get that over the line and the judge sort of refutes that claim and he's looking at say 12 months and he would have already served 12 months by that time. And Judge Arun has said that he's going to be consider that Molly, he's walking out of that door. He's not going to jail. What are his next steps? Can he make a comeback? I, I, we hear rumors on the timeline that there's a joint album in the works with Kanye. I'm not sure that's what a crisis manager would advise.
- [25:03]
Eric Fadali
Yeah, well, reputation is certainly currency in the entertainment world today, but I think there's also in to a moral fatigue. There's also just a crisis fatigue. People just get tired of hearing the same stories and hearing the same negative stories over and over again. And they also don't like to get spun. So whether it's by their PR reps or even their lawyers, sometimes there's just a general fatigue. His fans will certainly be there, but Kanye is just a bigger name when it comes to fans and when it comes to, you know, people who will, you know, get behind him, you know, it's, it's different for Sean Combs, I think so I don't, when it all comes down to it, it really, it's based on do people care as much? There are definitely people who are following this trial, but depending on the, you know, what he is served. You know what the time he does serve, if it's low, there's going to be a lot of people who's going to sense an injustice. So there might be a boomerang effect for him there as well and won't let him get through this.
- [26:05]
Molly McPherson
It will be low. I'm going to tell you right now, it's going to be low.
- [26:09]
Eric Fadali
And that will be great for him from a freedom perspective, certainly. But from, you know, from reputation and coming back, you know, sometimes you wonder and Sean, I'm just curious what you think on this. What's there to come back to? You know, it's not as if Sean Combs was, you know, on the tip of everyone's tongue. You know, he was, he was just notorious now, you know, that's how people know him. So it's gonna be very difficult to still keep up that Notorious brand when all this was happening. But it will be interesting when the sentencing does happen. Happen.
- [26:38]
Molly McPherson
I'm so glad you said that because it was so funny. When you sit down and talk to people, it's like, was he really famous? Like everybody always referred to him as this famous rapper, Sean. I'm like, was he, though? I mean, he wasn't.
- [26:53]
Eric Fadali
Yeah, he doesn't have the. He doesn't have the fan base. He was more notorious. That's why people know him.
- [26:58]
Anoushka Mutandadawati
Well, I knew him for dating Young Miami and Lori Harvey. So I guess intergenerational impact through who he dates.
- [27:04]
Molly McPherson
Notorious, Infamous, if you will. Not famous.
- [27:07]
Eric Fadali
Well, yeah.
- [27:07]
Anoushka Mutandadawati
And we will obviously be keeping an eye on that October sentencing and bring you what the judge decides then. As if we don't end up in a six week retrial, which we all don't want to happen.
- [27:17]
Molly McPherson
Well, no, it would be a couple of days. Let's make that clear. A judge will not let it go on that long. It'll be a couple of days at most.
- [27:24]
Anoushka Mutandadawati
That makes me feel better and I'm sure it makes the entire team feel a lot better as well. Thank you so much for breaking those down for us today. Molly, welcome to the pod and thank you.
- [27:33]
Molly McPherson
Glad to have you, Molly.
- [27:35]
Eric Fadali
All right, happy to be here. Thank you so much.
- [27:37]
Anoushka Mutandadawati
And Sean, as always, thank you so much.
- [27:39]
Molly McPherson
Thank you for having me. Much appreciate you, Anoushka.
- [27:42]
Anoushka Mutandadawati
That was Molly McPherson, crisis PR manager and our resident criminal defence attorney from South Carolina, Sean Kent. And that's it for this first episode of Fame Under Fire from BBC Sounds with me, Anoushka Mutandadouati. Make sure you subscribe and turn on your push notifications so you never miss a thing. And don't forget, you can get in touch with us on on WhatsApp at 0330678 114. Let us know your questions or thoughts on who we should be talking about. It's not funny. It's true. Lily Allen and Makita Oliver Keats, I've got some questions for you. BBC Sounds Tell me what you've enjoyed.
- [28:21]
Molly McPherson
About our podcast so far.
- [28:23]
Anoushka Mutandadawati
I like that you've got more and more comfortable in this space, and I've watched you. You show all parts of yourself. We've both cried. Miss Me With Lily Allen and Makita Oliver we're just us having a chat. Feels like we've been doing it forever. We kind of have. Listen on BBC Sounds.