Fame Under Fire x When It Hits the Fan

BBC Sounds — February 9, 2026
Host: David Yelland (When It Hits the Fan) with Guest Anoushka Mutanda-Dougherty (Fame Under Fire)

Overview of the Episode

This special crossover episode brings together David Yelland from When It Hits the Fan and Anoushka Mutanda-Dougherty from Fame Under Fire to dissect reputational crises at the intersection of celebrity, politics, social media, and public opinion. The discussion centers on the evolving landscape of personal PR, myth-busting, and the rapid-fire, often messy process of reputation-building and destruction in the age of viral misinformation and digital influence. They deep-dive into recent headline-dominating scandals like the Diddy trial, the Brigitte Macron lawsuit, and the media strategy of influencers like Candace Owens, drawing lessons for PR professionals, journalists, and the public.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. New Rules of Personal PR

• Reputation Management Is Broken: Traditional crisis PR tools often fail to influence public perception. As Anoushka notes, "the PR sometimes is more important than what's actually going on in the courtroom." (01:10)
• Need for a New Blueprint: Both hosts agree a new model is needed. David remarks, "the levers have stopped working, right? ...you pull stuff and nothing happens down there. It doesn’t influence public opinion." (03:08)

2. The Diddy Trial as Case Study

• Background: Diddy (Sean Combs) accused by US federal authorities of sex trafficking, transportation for prostitution, and RICO violations — historically associated with organized crime. (03:50)
• Misinformation Explosion: Social media “took off in a way I don’t think anyone was prepared for... Every single day. There was a new accusation about Sean Diddy Combs," leading to public perception far outstripping the reality of the case. (04:48)
  • Examples: wild accusations of child trafficking, murder, and satanic rituals gained millions of views, despite lacking basis in the indictment.
• Jury & Public Perception: By the time of trial, expectation of extreme crimes led to support for Diddy when actual charges, though serious, were less sensational. "He had gone from being literally the worst person in the world to somebody that had been targeted by the federal government." (07:50)
• Traditional PR Fails: Diddy's team at first issued "pretty boring statement[s] denying everything," ineffective against the social media wildfire. (10:30)
• Adapting to the Wild West: Only during trial did Diddy’s camp start leveraging social media narratives, possibly less by design and more by necessity.

3. Social Media’s PR Power

• Direct Influence: Diddy understood influencing jurors/public happens on Instagram and TikTok, not elite media.
  • Clip: “There’s 9 billion people in the world and 7 billion of them is on Instagram and TikTok... you at the wrong place. Looking to see what the people with the possible jurors are thinking.” — Diddy, (12:15)
• Implication: The arena where reputations are made or broken has shifted. David notes, "what we just heard Didi say is not too far from what you actually hear in private... He understands who he needs to influence." (12:42)

4. The Brigitte Macron Lawsuit & The Social Media Offensive

• Case Summary: The Macrons are suing Candace Owens for persistent, viral misinformation alleging Brigitte Macron was born male. The suit is notable for its high stakes—the U.S. civil discovery process is invasive, and stakes reputations, privacy, and institutional credibility. (14:08)
• Why Candace Owens Is Effective:
  • Massive audience: "Her podcast was getting 3 million listeners a day. She does live streams to 150,000 people." (16:10)
  • Mistrust of mainstream institutions fuels belief in her content: "It's born of a, you know, a fear of institutions. It's born of a mistrust in mainstream media... And Candace taps into those anxieties." (16:40)

5. The Candace Owens Media Playbook

• Clip Farming & Omnipresence:
  • “A 40 minute podcast is also a 40 minute livestream... She’ll also do something called clip farming... 40 or 50 smaller clips... you will eventually see her content on your For You page.” (19:01)
• Trust through Transparency: Livestreaming gives the “air of transparency,” building trust with audiences. (19:07)
• Humor as Soft Power:
  • “She's funny... And humor is soft power. Once you have people laughing... you have people emotionally engaged.” (20:20)
• Comparison to Old-School Media: David draws parallels to the tabloid playbook, noting "what you say to your audience is, are you thinking what I’m thinking? And that is what she does." (17:30)

6. Lessons & Warnings for Traditional PR

• Influence is Native, Not Manufactured:
  • Attempting to mimic digital-native communicators can come off as "cringy." (24:24)
• Political Adoption: Discussion of Keir Starmer’s TikTok launch—danger of inauthenticity if not authentically engaged with the platform’s culture. (24:24–25:48)

7. The Rise of the Personal Brand

• Journalists as Brands:
  • Anoushka shares: “Now if you have something that you’re fronting... they want to know who the person who’s telling them the news... I have found it to be immeasurably helpful.” (27:38)
  • Livestreaming courtroom experiences led to building a direct, trusting community—even among “people going, you know, I wouldn’t normally come to the BBC because... but I know where she is... I know she’s actually in that courtroom.” (28:53)
• Applying to Business:
  • David: “Business doesn't understand... if it’s going to move into your world it has to be fronted by a human being.” (26:55)
  • Anoushka: “If you can foster the people within your organization who already organically are showing a human side and make them kind of a business influencer... You can utilise that.” (30:13)

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On reputation swings:
  • “At the beginning of the trial... support for Diddy was non existent... On the last day... those same people were wearing shirts that said a Frico isn’t a RICO and asking me if I wanted a miniature bottle of baby oil to take into the trial.”
    — Anoushka (09:40)
• On PR industry lag:
  • “The PR industry doesn’t quite get that yet... and a lot of the reason things are moving around so fast is... the digital revolution, the algorithms.”
    — David (08:41)
• On Candace Owens:
  • “She’s an uncomfortable thing because she talks a lot of crap. That’s the problem with Candace Owens. But... a lot of people believe what she has to say.”
    — Anoushka (16:40)
• On humor’s role:
  • “Humor is soft power. Once you have people laughing, you have people looking, then you have people emotionally engaged with you.”
    — Anoushka (20:20)
• On journalists as brands:
  • “You came with me every step of the way. And then I streamed live for two hours at the end of every day, and you could just directly ask me questions that I’d answer on the spot.”
    — Anoushka (27:53)
• On business reluctance:
  • “What applies to journalists also applies to business. But I can tell you... what you’ve said will horrify people in business. The idea that... a CEO... would have to show themselves at breakfast or whatever.”
    — David (29:15)

Important Timestamps

• [03:50] The Diddy (Sean Combs) trial — details, charges, and media frenzy.
• [07:50] Shift in public/jury perception; traditional PR responses fail.
• [12:15] Audio clip of Diddy discussing the need to target jurors on social media, not legacy media.
• [14:08] Brigitte Macron lawsuit against Candace Owens explained.
• [16:10] The rise and reach of Candace Owens—how she builds audiences and spreads narratives.
• [19:01] Anoushka explains Candace Owens’ "clip farming" and multi-platform dominance.
• [20:20] The power of humor in political/influencer communication.
• [24:24] Keir Starmer’s TikTok launch; why digital-native communication can’t be faked.
• [27:38] Journalists becoming personal brands; building trust via transparency.
• [30:13] The potential for authentic internal influencers in business; the human face of organizations.

Flow & Tone

The conversation is energetic, candid, and peppered with dry humor and media-insider banter. Anoushka brings sharp, journalistic analysis and personal experience from inside high-profile trials, while David adds perspective from the business and PR crisis world. Both agree that reputation management is chaotic, fast-moving, and deeply personal in the digital age—demanding both humility and adaptability from those who wish to survive "when fame is under fire."

Looking Ahead

• 2026 is shaping up to be "the year of the celebrity trial,” with high-profile cases involving Blake Lively, Justin Baldoni, Russell Brand, Andrew Tate, and the ongoing Tupac trial expected to dominate media and public discourse. (31:07)

For more:

• Subscribe to Fame Under Fire and When It Hits the Fan on BBC Sounds
• Message the team with your questions at 0330 123 5551