Dig – Season 2, Episode 6: "Who's Gonna Be Next?"

Kentucky Center for Investigative Reporting | October 18, 2021
Host: Eleanor Klibanoff

Episode Overview

This episode examines the deep fractures within Louisville in 2021 as the city grapples with unrest, distrust, and promises of police reform in the wake of Breonna Taylor’s killing and David McAtee’s death. Through community forums, leadership interviews, and on-the-ground voices, the episode questions whether the city is truly poised for meaningful change or simply reliving cycles of broken promises and systemic failures. With a focus on people affected and those still fighting for solutions, the narrative explores skepticism, pain, hope, and exhaustion within Louisville’s struggle to become a “model city” for police reform.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Tense State of Louisville’s Community (00:00–03:00)

• Community Forum Snapshot:
  Eleanor describes attending a charged community forum where citizens voiced frustrations at city leadership and law enforcement, revealing the city’s grief and distrust.

• “Chasm” Remains:
  Despite new leadership and reforms, the disconnect between police and community persists:
  "Despite all this, the anger, the frustration, the disconnect between the police and the community was still there. In fact, it seemed like the chasm between the two was wider than ever." (01:10–01:17)

• Emotional Testimonies:
  Antonio Brown, a community leader, passionately addresses economic inequity and police disconnect:

  “Y’all know what’s wrong in the community... If you got family, the only thing you can do is flip burgers. Then you tell them... how you supposed to feed your family?” (01:17–01:40)

2. Frustration with Leadership and Feeling Unheard (02:38–03:37)

• Bishop Dennis Lyons’ Weariness:
  Lyons, a longtime community advocate, expresses disappointment with city leaders’ inaccessibility:

  “This is the only time they get a chance to share with the mayor what’s on their hearts, and that tells us that he is not opening up his office. This is a result of the government not connecting with those protesters.” (02:38–02:56)

• City’s Broken State:
  The forum’s chaos exemplifies the city’s fractured state and the daunting task of repairing trust.

3. The Arrival and Background of Chief Erica Shields (03:37–05:14)

• Shields’ Controversial History:
  Louisville’s new police chief, Erica Shields, previously resigned as Atlanta’s chief after a police shooting; her reputation and reformist branding precede her in Louisville.

• Policing Model Shifts – In Theory:
  Shields claims a departure from drug enforcement to focusing on illegal guns and violent crimes, acknowledging past racial targeting:

  “I do absolutely not want to arrest my way out of anywhere... we are not to be out locking up young black men, period. That accomplishes nothing.” (06:21–06:37)

• Reiteration of Familiar Reform Language:
  Despite proposed shifts, much of Shields' language echoes previous reform promises dating back to the Obama-era 21st century policing model.

4. Interview: Mayor Greg Fischer on Missed Opportunities and Reform (08:46–14:25)

• Admissions and Regrets:
  Fischer admits his administration’s lack of sufficient police oversight:

  “My recommendation for another mayor is to constantly be doing third party deep reviews of your police force.” (09:32–09:41)
  “In retrospect, I do [regret not doing audits], and I don’t know if it would have solved anything or not.” (09:47–10:06)

• Doubts About Real Progress:
  Klibanoff pushes Fischer:

  • The same reforms have been promised since 2015.
  • The city’s challenges (officer shortages, lack of trust, escalating violence) have worsened.

• Mayor’s Optimism:
  Fischer insists Louisville can still be a “model city” and claims growing public consciousness about racism and the need for reform:

  “What I see the opportunity coming out of this is to be a model city in terms of police reform, police community legitimacy, co production of safety with the police in the community, and then racial equity as well.” (10:11–10:48)

• Klibanoff’s Skepticism:

  “Couldn’t you argue that Louisville was given the chance to be that model city ... and blew it?” (10:48–10:56)

5. New Department of Justice Scrutiny – and Reform Déjà Vu (12:41–14:25)

• Federal Investigation:
  The DOJ launches a civil investigation into LMPD’s practices—a severe sign federal intervention is now seen as necessary:

  “Today, the Justice Department is opening a civil investigation into the Louisville Jefferson county metro government.” (12:41–12:49)

  The DOJ is examining:

  • Search warrant procedures
  • Racial bias
  • Use of force
  • Protester treatment

• Reforms Promised—Again:
  The city touts reforms (early warning systems, civilian review boards, outside investigation of shootings), nearly all first floated in 2015.
  Many remain unfulfilled or have serious limitations (no subpoena power for review board, lack of transparency).

6. Community Voices: Hope, Skepticism, and Fatigue (16:01–24:15)

A. Officer Dexter Pitts’ Measured Optimism (16:01–16:30)

• On Chief Shields:

  “I'm an optimistic person with this. I think she's gonna do good things here. I really do. No sane person’s gonna come to do this job, so I respect her for coming here.” (16:20–16:30)

B. Bishop Lyons’ Evolving Perspective (17:21–19:17)

• Initial Distrust:
  Admits to prejudice against Shields due to the Atlanta shooting.
• Respect for Accountability:

  “She owned up to it was at fault, and she resigned. I said, oh, okay. Then I begin to gain respect for why she left.” (18:01–18:20)

• Signs of Progress:
  Lyons is now meeting regularly with police leadership, helping de-escalate situations—evidence of some new relationship-building.

C. Will Pitts: Grief and Exhaustion, Not Giving Up (20:03–24:15)

• Disillusion with “Trusting the Process”:

  “How long have we been trusting the process?... We stand to lose another hundred kids while y’all trying to figure it out. We stand to lose another 200 people at the rate it's going now. So something has to be done.” (20:16–21:02)

• Letting Go Under Duress:
  Will’s family closes Yaya’s, their West End restaurant, after losing family members to gun violence and police action. The storefront becomes a faded memorial:

  “We had to let it go. There was no more meaning, no more justifying. Now it’s like, whoa, it's two people in three months. Like, it’s time to let it go. And that was probably the hardest thing to do.” (22:08–22:26)

• Resigned, but Still Caring:
  Will continues to maintain the memorial but doubts federal intervention or city reforms will make a difference:

  “We just can't sit around and wait on who's to going be next, you know what I mean?” (23:25)

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Antonio Brown at the Forum:

  “Y’all know what’s wrong in the community. Y’all know why they killing each other... You got 10 kids, how you supposed to feed your family?” (01:17–01:40)

• Bishop Dennis Lyons on the City’s Disconnect:

  “This is the only time they get a chance to share with the mayor what’s on their hearts, and that tells us that he is not opening up his office. This is a result of the government not connecting with those protesters.” (02:38–02:56)

• Chief Erica Shields (on enforcement priorities):

  “I do absolutely not want to arrest my way out of anywhere. And I tell my troops from day one we are not to be out locking up young black men, period. That accomplishes nothing.” (06:21–06:37)

• Mayor Greg Fischer (on lessons learned):

  “In retrospect, I do [regret not doing audits]... It is always good to be doing internal review and external review with your customers.” (09:47–10:06)

• Will Pitts (on endless promises):

  “I don’t want to wait forever... We stand to lose another 100 kids while y’all trying to figure it out.” (20:16–21:02) “We just can't sit around and wait on who's to going be next, you know what I mean?” (23:25)

Important Timestamps

• 00:00–01:40 – Community forum: public frustrations erupt.
• 03:37–05:14 – Erica Shields’ background & policing philosophy.
• 06:21–06:37 – Shields on stopping mass arrests of Black men.
• 08:46–10:11 – Interview with Mayor Greg Fischer: reflecting on missed opportunities.
• 12:41–14:25 – DOJ civil investigation and city’s repeated, incomplete reform promises.
• 16:01–19:17 – Dexter Pitts, Bishop Lyons: cautious optimism and relationship building.
• 20:03–24:15 – Will Pitts: skepticism, losses, and personal community ties.
• 23:25–23:49 – Will Pitts’ plea: “We just can't sit around and wait on who's to going be next...”

Tone & Language

• Candid, emotional, and direct—especially from community leaders and citizens.
• Skepticism and exhaustion weigh heavily, but some persistent hope surfaces.
• Leadership voices blend optimism with hedging and admission of past mistakes.

Conclusion

"Who's Gonna Be Next?" interrogates the effectiveness of Louisville’s police reform promises through the eyes of its citizens and leaders. Despite cycles of tragedy and repeated reform plans, the episode finds a city divided and skeptical, but still clinging for the potential of real change—should there finally be the will to listen and act.