Podcast Summary: "Digital Disruption with Geoff Nielson"

Episode Title: How Spatial Tech Will Change Your Reality Forever
Release Date: June 23, 2025
Host: Info-Tech Research Group
Guest: Kathy Hackl, Renowned Metaverse Expert

Introduction

In this episode of Digital Disruption, host Jeff engages in a thought-provoking conversation with Kathy Hackl, often hailed as the "godmother of the Metaverse." Kathy brings her extensive experience from leading tech companies like HTC Vive and Magic Leap to explore the evolving landscape of spatial computing, artificial intelligence (AI), and their profound impacts on human interaction and society.

Understanding Spatial Computing and the Metaverse

Jeff opens the discussion by expressing his skepticism about the Metaverse, setting the stage for Kathy to delve into the nuances of spatial computing.

Kathy Hackl [01:18]:
"The metaverse wasn't really here yet. People are building towards it, so you can't kill something that doesn't exist. It's more the hype that really died off."

Kathy emphasizes that while the term "Metaverse" may be losing traction, the underlying concept of blending the physical and virtual worlds continues to advance. She introduces the term "spatial web" as a more fitting descriptor for this burgeoning reality.

Exploring Emerging Technologies: Google Beam and Apple Vision Pro

The conversation shifts to recent technological advancements, with Jeff inquiring about innovations like Google Beam and XR.

Kathy Hackl [03:29]:
"Google Beam is pretty much a system where you're able to have a conversation with someone in 3D without a headset, using AI and cameras. It felt like something out of Star Trek."

Kathy describes her hands-on experience with Google Beam, highlighting its ability to project realistic 3D images without the need for traditional VR headsets. She imagines applications in fashion, design, and even dating salons, where such technology can enhance human communication by providing a more immersive and authentic interaction.

Jeff [05:38]:
"Is this kind of a tech demo and it'll stay a tech demo versus having commercial applications?"

Kathy believes that while current implementations like Google Beam may be bulky, future iterations could find their place in specific industries before becoming mainstream. She foresees a gradual integration of such technologies into everyday life, starting with enterprises and specialized settings.

The Role of AI in Spatial Computing

Jeff probes deeper into the intersection of AI and spatial technology, questioning the practicality and consumer appeal.

Kathy Hackl [09:43]:
"There's something powerful about seeing someone in 3D without a headset. It adds a layer of emotional connection that flat video can't achieve."

Kathy discusses the potential of AI-enhanced spatial technologies to preserve memories and enhance personal connections. She speculates about future family photos that might include holograms of loved ones or robots, drawing parallels to cultural acceptance of robots in Japan.

OpenAI’s Foray into Hardware

Shifting focus, Jeff brings up OpenAI's recent partnership and hardware initiatives, seeking Kathy's insights.

Kathy Hackl [15:16]:
"OpenAI's move into hardware is a strategic play. Owning the hardware means controlling the data essential for training advanced AI models."

Kathy explains that OpenAI's hardware endeavors are aimed at collecting real-time data to develop more sophisticated AI systems. She underscores the importance of hardware ownership in maintaining a competitive edge in the AI landscape, noting that companies like Meta are already deep into their hardware phases.

Jeff [18:24]:
"What’s in it for consumers? Why should we be excited?"

Kathy expresses uncertainty about immediate consumer benefits but suggests that advanced hardware could facilitate more seamless human-technology interactions, offering faster and more intuitive AI assistance.

Privacy and Ethical Concerns with AI

The discussion takes a critical turn as Kathy raises concerns about privacy and the ethical implications of AI.

Kathy Hackl [21:40]:
"When you input personal data into AI systems, corporations can leverage that information in ways that compromise your privacy."

Kathy highlights the risks associated with using AI for personal advice and therapy, emphasizing that interactions with AI are data transactions rather than private conversations. She points out the potential for misuse of sensitive information, drawing attention to the need for robust ethical frameworks and privacy protections.

Humanoid Robots: Potential and Purpose

Jeff steers the conversation towards humanoid robots, seeking Kathy's perspective on their future roles.

Kathy Hackl [30:30]:
"Humanoid robots can serve in elder care where there's a shortage of young caregivers. They can also assist in the workplace, though not all tasks require a humanoid form."

Kathy explores various applications of humanoid robots, particularly in aging societies like Japan, where they could alleviate labor shortages and combat loneliness. She touches upon visionary concepts like offloading human consciousness into robots, acknowledging both the technological challenges and ethical questions such advancements entail.

Challenges in Spatial Computing Adoption

Jeff questions why spatial computing hasn't achieved mainstream success despite numerous technological advancements.

Kathy Hackl [36:00]:
"The form factor and optics aren’t there yet. Devices need to be stylish and functional, and the necessary connectivity infrastructure like 6G is still in development."

Kathy identifies several barriers to widespread adoption of spatial technologies, including the need for advanced and aesthetically pleasing hardware, as well as unprecedented levels of connectivity and energy-efficient data centers. She notes that solving these issues is crucial for these technologies to transition from niche applications to everyday use.

AI Optimism vs. Skepticism

When prompted about overhyped technologies, Kathy shares her balanced view, blending optimism with caution.

Kathy Hackl [42:21]:
"I'm more protopian than utopian. While AI is incredible, I'm concerned about data center sustainability and the erosion of human connection."

Kathy remains optimistic about AI's potential but voices concerns over environmental impacts and the societal consequences of diminishing human interactions. She warns against the allure of replacing genuine human connections with AI, emphasizing the intrinsic value of human presence and intimacy.

The Future of Dating in the Age of AI

One of the most engaging segments revolves around the transformation of dating through technology.

Kathy Hackl [45:49]:
"If we as humans date in 3D, why are we still doing it in 2D on apps? Interactive experiences like virtual bowling or escape rooms could revolutionize how we form connections."

Kathy critiques current dating app models for their superficiality and suggests integrating gaming elements to create more meaningful and interactive experiences. She envisions platforms where users engage in virtual activities together, fostering deeper connections before meeting in person.

Jeff [48:37]:
"Dating apps have financial incentives to keep users swiping rather than finding meaningful connections."

Jeff adds that traditional dating apps may perpetuate unhealthy patterns by prioritizing user engagement over genuine matchmaking, highlighting the need for more authentic and user-centric approaches.

Kathy Hackl [47:44]:
"I'm launching the Tech Intimacy Scale to explore how technology can enhance personal relationships, starting with dating and expanding to parenting and work."

Kathy introduces her initiative aimed at leveraging technology to improve human relationships, advocating for tools that facilitate genuine connection rather than replace it.

Conclusion

The episode wraps up with mutual appreciation between Jeff and Kathy, leaving listeners with profound insights into the future of spatial computing, AI, and their intersection with human experiences.

Kathy Hackl [51:19]:
"I'm glad we took some turns that we weren't expecting, but I think it's going to be useful to folks out there."

Key Takeaways

1. Evolving Terminology: The concept of the Metaverse is transitioning towards terms like "spatial web," reflecting a broader integration of virtual and physical realities.

2. Emerging Technologies: Innovations like Google Beam offer glimpse into future communication tools that blend AI and spatial computing without traditional headsets.

3. AI's Strategic Role: Companies investing in AI hardware aim to control data crucial for advancing AI models, positioning themselves competitively in the tech landscape.

4. Privacy Concerns: The use of AI for personal interactions raises significant privacy and ethical issues, necessitating robust safeguards.

5. Humanoid Robots: Potential applications in elder care and the workplace highlight both opportunities and ethical dilemmas in robotics.

6. Adoption Barriers: Technical challenges, including device design and connectivity infrastructure, hinder the mainstream adoption of spatial technologies.

7. Human Connection: Maintaining genuine human interactions is essential, even as AI and robotics become more integrated into daily life.

8. Revolutionizing Dating: Integrating interactive, gaming-based elements into dating platforms could foster deeper, more meaningful relationships compared to traditional swiping models.

This episode of Digital Disruption provides a comprehensive exploration of how spatial technology and AI are poised to reshape human reality, emphasizing both the promising innovations and the critical challenges that lie ahead.