6 Years of Failure Before Grandur Took Off... | Belal Shaher | DSH #1915

Summary

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Podcast Summary: Digital Social Hour – "6 Years of Failure Before Grandur Took Off..."

Host: Sean Kelly
Guest: Belal Shaher (Founder, Grandur Watches)
Episode #: DSH #1915
Date: April 13, 2026

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Overview

This episode of Digital Social Hour brings an unfiltered and in-depth conversation with Belal Shaher, the visionary founder of Grandur Watches. Host Sean Kelly explores Belal’s remarkable journey from struggling entrepreneur to leader of a watchmaking movement aiming to revive American craftsmanship. They discuss building an independent luxury watch brand, the importance of originality, challenges in manufacturing, and why Belal prefers to stay out of the limelight. The episode offers insights for anyone passionate about entrepreneurship, manufacturing, or the power of following one’s passion.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

The Pursuit of Uncompromising Quality

• Belal’s Dedication to Craftsmanship
  • Destroyed entire batches rather than deliver subpar products ([00:00], [06:12])
    • "I'd rather be late on a delivery than let you get a watch with a flaw." – Belal [00:08]
  • Prioritizes memorable quality over speed: “You can forget a delay, but you can’t forget missed quality.” – Belal [00:19]
• Unique Complications & Innovation
  • No standard three-hand watches; every model seeks unique complications ([02:19])
  • First to mass-produce glow-in-the-dark ceramic; also produced the world’s smallest stone micro-rotor ([02:48], [24:39])
  • “We invent complications…None of the watches we sell are regular time reading watches.” – Belal [02:19], [24:28]
• Manufacturing in the USA
  • Building a Miami factory; aims for full US production by 2027 ([03:26])
  • Collaborating with local watchmaking schools to nurture American talent ([03:42])
  • Aspires to revive the American watchmaking legacy lost to Switzerland after WWII ([05:41])
  • “The US was the leader…in the 1800s…they lost it after the war…but I hope I can bring this back.” – Belal [05:41]

Building Grandur: From Garments to Watches

• Origins
  • Began as a watch collector dissatisfied with what was on the market ([00:57])
  • First big success: Luxury Apple Watch cases, $3.8M in three months ([13:17])
• Entrepreneurial Journey
  • Over six years before Grandur Watches took off ([13:00])
  • Prior background: Garment manufacturing for Nike, Adidas, North Face, etc. – run with his wife in China ([09:51], [10:05])
  • Used profits from previous ventures to fund watch business ([10:37])
• The Role of Family
  • Deep support from his wife; married at 19 ([10:39], [11:14])
  • Four children; credits spouse for connections and stability ([10:46])

Independence, Authenticity, and Exclusivity

• Staying Anonymous Until Now
  • First-ever podcast appearance; first public reveal of his face ([07:35])
    • “I waited so long for this. …I have to be with you out of respect…first time showing my face in social media was with you.” – Belal [07:40], [08:02]
  • Values people knowing his work over his personality ([08:10])
• Passionate Differentiation
  • Refuses to compete with Rolex; sees independent makers as real peers ([04:52])
  • “If you wear a Rolex, nobody will ask what it is. …Having a unique piece is what gets people asking.” – Belal [09:32]
  • Does not repeat colors or designs: “Once it’s sold out, I don’t do it again.” ([23:02])
• Exclusivity and Value
  • Limited production: 3-4 new models a year; moving toward even less ([24:00])
  • Pieces appreciate: Watches retailing at $1,300 resold at $18,000 ([22:33])
  • “We can actually produce many watches. …But when I go full handmade, I can cross 3-400 orders a year.” – Belal [22:22]

Innovation and Global Influences

• Mixing East and West:
  • Experiences in China inform his views on advanced watchmaking ([13:49], [14:23])
  • Believes China will become a major player in luxury watchmaking, previously underestimated for quality ([14:35]-[15:00])
• Respect for Swiss and Global Peers
  • Admires independent brands like MB&F and Jacob & Co. ([04:57], [05:06])
  • Collaborated with Swiss lume innovators and plans further such projects ([25:09])

Passion Before Profit

• Advice for Young Entrepreneurs
  • Passion should precede the pursuit of money; money follows genuine fulfillment ([17:57], [18:10])
    • “If you really love something…follow what you love, you will be able to make money.” – Belal [18:10]
• Long-Term Vision
  • Focuses on legacy and self-fulfillment over quick financial wins ([23:20])
  • “Every watch I make is something I want on my wrist, not just about the money.” – Belal [23:22]

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Quality Control & Integrity
  • “I had to destroy the whole batch…Because I rather be late on a delivery than let you get a watch with a flaw.” – Belal ([00:00], [06:12])
• On Being Distinctive
  • “If you meeting and you wearing a Rolex, nobody will come and ask you what is that watch? …So this is the idea—make something unique.” – Belal [09:32]
• On Anonymity and Craft
  • “I want people to always be interested in my work more than me myself.” – Belal [08:10]
• On Manufacturing & Passion
  • “Watches is the fun one…It’s my passion. I find my passion with it.” – Belal [17:02]
• On Giving
  • “When I meet you the first time, I gift you…Things related to money always stuck in our minds.” – Belal [30:31]
  • “It’s not about money…just appreciation of knowing someone. …I like gifting someone something. It mean I like you.” – Belal [31:14]
• On Following Your Passion
  • “If you really love something and you follow what you love, you will be able to make money.” – Belal [18:10]
  • “Every watch I make…I want to have on my wrist before how much it’s going to make for me.” – Belal [23:22]

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Key Timestamps

• [00:00] – Belal on destroying batches for quality
• [00:54] – Origin story: dissatisfaction as a collector
• [02:19] – Only making watches with unique complications
• [03:26] – Bringing manufacturing to Miami and vision for US craftsmanship
• [06:12] – Quality control and refusal to compromise
• [07:35] – First public interview and face reveal
• [09:51] – Early businesses: Garments, China factory, and family support
• [13:00] – Grandur’s slow six-year path to real success
• [14:23] – Respect for Chinese watchmaking, global innovation
• [17:57] – Entrepreneurial advice: passion vs. money
• [22:31] – Exclusivity, auctions, and value appreciation
• [24:39] – Mechanical patents and world-firsts
• [25:45] – Thoughts on using precious metals; focus on titanium
• [27:32] – “Overpriced” luxury brands vs. Grandur’s philosophy
• [28:38] – On safety and the risks of luxury watches in public
• [30:31] – The significance of gifting in building relationships

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Additional Highlights

• Shopify Praise: Both guest and host credit Shopify for transforming their early e-commerce businesses ([20:24])
• Upcoming: Miami retail showroom in the Design District, focusing on experience and connection, not on-site sales ([21:08])
• Philosophy on Design: Releases just a handful of new watches per year; time-intensive creative process ([24:00])
• Giving Back: Belal’s practice of gifting memorable items as a gesture of meaningful connections ([31:14])

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Summary Flow & Tone

The episode blends entrepreneurial wisdom, technical geekiness, and heartfelt reflections. Belal comes across as obsessive yet warm, fiercely protective of originality, and deeply invested in making things that truly matter. Their conversation is casual yet packed with practical advice and philosophy for both business and life, highlighting the power of persistence, craftsmanship, and genuine relationships.

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Transcript

[A]

One time I have to destroy the whole batch.

[B]

Jeez.

[A]

Because that's something I didn't like. It is expensive, but we need quality pieces to reach the customer hands. Because I rather be late on a delivery than let you get a watch with a flow or something you would not like. Because you can forget delay, but you can forget like a missed quality.

[B]

Okay, guys, got Bilal on today. Founder of Grandeur Watches. We met in Houston a year ago. Good to see you brother Sam here.

[A]

Have you.

[B]

Yeah. Got the watch you gave me.

[A]

Thank you. Yeah. Did you have it?

[B]

Yeah. We're time.

[A]

How about the new one?

[B]

Do you like it? Check out this new one, guys. Looks sick. Is this your newest release?

[A]

Yes, it's a new one. It's sold out already. Wow, this is pretty thin watch. It's like 6.5 mm.

[B]

Yeah, it feels light. I could lift in this.

[A]

It's light. Yeah. It's a daily used watch. So you can wear it to gym or what do whatever you want with it.

[B]

So you're the founder of Grandeur Watches. How did this company start?

[A]

The company I started as a collector first in the watch industry. I was collecting watches and then every watch have something missing all the time. Every watch I own from alarms to batix, there's something missing all the time. So I decided to create something that got everything I wish to have in each watch. So I take. Let's say I take the best of every watch I like. Turn it to something in my own vision. Same the watch you got in your hand?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

It got the RM67 Inspiration by the. How thin is it? It's like 32 grams, 6.5 mm. It's got all the feature that perfect for daily use. Then we have a strange which is the jump hour complications. This is our first viral watch.

[B]

Yeah, people always stop me when I wear London. They're like, what is a.

[A]

It is. It is like a watch. It's good to start talking this watch because the shape of the case is unique and people look to the dial and like why the numbers are so random this way. So it's a good start watch too.

[B]

Watches are a great conversation starter. Great for networking. That's why I think when I go to events like UFC or networking event, I always wear a watch.

[A]

It is, it is. That's why I love this industry. You know, I run 21 businesses.

[B]

Yeah, that's a lot.

[A]

Watches is my favorite because you can't find much people make watches.

[B]

It's not.

[A]

We're not resealing. We making watches from scratch. We invent, invent complications. And none of the watches we sell are regular time reading watches. We don't use like three hands watches. We always have something unique. Like it jumps. We got baton in the world first lume turbulent. We got the world first mass production ceramic. Glow in the dark. Ceramic actually.

[B]

Wow.

[A]

Very unique watch. I. I think we can. If we can put an image of it or something.

[B]

And not many companies make watches in America.

[A]

Yes. So this is my goal when I moved to this country. I wanted to make. Make the watches the same the standard of a Swiss. So if you want to put a Swiss made on a watch, it have to be 60% made in Switzerland. So I decided to do the same. But in usa, which is my dream to do. And we already achieving a lot of this. We have our factory set up in Miami now we going to be up and running to make our watches there by beginning of 2027.

[B]

Nice.

[A]

Which is really great thing to do. Miami is the best location. It's the fashion hub in usa. Yeah. That's why I choose Miami.

[B]

Same with art. Art hub as well.

[A]

It is. Yeah. So Miami is a great location to start with and also easier to find watchmaker there. There's a watchmaking school in Miami.

[B]

Really?

[A]

So it's a. Yes. So we have a kind of collaboration with them. So they give us new graduated watchmakers to join our team and get them trained and produce the watches.

[B]

Supporting American businesses.

[A]

I do. That's what, that's what we're trying to do actually. Yeah.

[B]

Because right now a lot of the watches are made in Switzerland. Right. All the top companies.

[A]

All the top companies in Switzerland. But we start to compete by creating new complication. Yeah. This is, this is something to focus on. We start making new complication. People love it. People buying it. We always sold out like for the last four years. I don't think we take more than three days to sell any model. Wow. It's sold out.

[B]

That's impressive.

[A]

Yeah. We did around 18 million last year.

[B]

Jeez. And you got 20 copies.

[A]

Yeah. Again I focus on watches because it's interesting. Yeah. You won like you won. Find many people who's actually making watches, you know.

[B]

How much revenue did Rolex do last year? It's gotta be like high.

[A]

I don't recall the number actually, but they're doing a lot. But we playing in different league, you know. I see. I don't see this brand as a competition, to be honest.

[B]

Who would you consider a competition?

[A]

Independent watchmakers.

[B]

Okay. Independent watchmaking companies are there Any bigger than you.

[A]

Mbnf I haven't heard at all. Almost. Yeah. Making the most crazy watches ever. It's.

[B]

Oh, is that the one with the roulette wheel in the Jacob.

[A]

Jacob also is a big inspiration for me. He's a great guy. He do nice complication. Yeah. I love his watches.

[B]

His watches are not.

[A]

Yeah. The rosette one is amazing. He got some. The Bugatti. The Bugatti version. He did also this pretty nice watch.

[B]

Do you want to do collabs like that in the future with brands?

[A]

I will. And we already started doing. Having some collaborations. I think the watch industry attract a lot of celebrities. So we we going ahead. But first now I'm focusing on building my factory and making the watches within USA without import anything from outside.

[B]

Right.

[A]

Is a very big dream to achieve. Because the US was the leader on watchmaking in the 1800s. So there was the world lead. The world leader in. In the watchmaking industry. But after the World war they. They lost their procedure to Switzerland because they more focus on that.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So I hope I can bring this back.

[B]

You are man. You're bringing it back and doing some work. Significant volume. You're selling out in days. And these are clean pieces, man. Like you could tell quality, right? Quality.

[A]

We focus on quality a lot.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Like in one time I have to destroy the whole batch.

[B]

Jeez.

[A]

Because there's something I didn't like. It is expensive. But we need quality pieces to reach the customer hands. Because I rather be late on a delivery. Then let you get a watch with a floor or something you would not like. Because you can forget delay but you can forget like a missed quality, you know. So control is very hard in our company.

[B]

Do you create these yourself or you do?

[A]

Yes, I know I'm the only designer. Wow. In this company.

[B]

What's your job? What's your creative process when you're making a watch?

[A]

I want to make like an art time reading pieces, you know. So I focus on colors. I take a very long time picking which colors to have in our watches. And then case shapes complication again. I trying to do something like we have something a watch called Revolve. It got a minute that revolving like it's hitting and then the correct minute revolving in every five minutes. It's very unique watch. Very, very unique. Nobody have done that. Even in Switzerland we have a mini tributer which is a watch tell you the time by music. Wow. It's a very unique watch. It's sold out already also.

[B]

That's crazy.

[A]

But it tells you the time by music, which is cool.

[B]

That's awesome. I need to see that one.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And this is a big deal for you. This is your first podcast ever and you never revealed yet.

[A]

I waited so long for this. I got so many requests to join podcast, but I said I have to be with you respect because we're friends. And then I think you're one of the top podcaster these days. So I want to start with you.

[B]

Yeah. We're talking for so long, dude. Thank you. I'm honored, honestly, because I know you get hit up a lot. You got millions of followers and you were always anonymous. Right. You never showed your face.

[A]

Never showed. My first time showing my face in social media was with you.

[B]

Wow.

[A]

First time ever.

[B]

Honored. Holy. Yeah. Why do you choose to be anonymous?

[A]

I want people to always be interesting about me. I want them to see, see my work, know my work and then know who I am. So the time I meet you, I felt like it won't be probably nice thing to not show because we take pictures together. So I decided to post it that day. Wow. I want people to always interested in my work more than me myself. Because the whole idea of this business is to create legacy for my name. Because when I started Granule, I wasn't thinking about making money. I want to make and art pieces that make me happy. Me love watches.

[B]

Yeah, I love watches. Watches bring me a lot of happiness.

[A]

It is, you know, if you look, everyone got go wealth. The first thing he do is rather cars and watches. Besides the family. This is like a basic life thing.

[B]

Every man.

[A]

It's the thing to have. And as I said, I was collector. I was buying what everyone buying these days. But then I decide like I want to create my own style. I want to create something unique. I. I feel these days many people will hate me for saying that. I feel if you meeting and you wearing a Rolex, nobody will come and ask you what is that watch? Everyone knows Rolex. Everyone have it as well. So having a unique piece in your hand, seeing what we doing, this is where the people ask, what is this? What like you see when I come here, your guys the first thing ask me what is that watch?

[B]

Exactly.

[A]

So this is the idea of what I'm trying to create. Make something unique. Make people ask, what is that?

[B]

Yeah, yeah. I don't, I don't want to be a follower. I want to be a leader.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

You know what I mean?

[A]

This is what we doing.

[B]

Yeah, you make some great stuff, man. Shout out to you, how did you make your first money, was it in this industry or a different one?

[A]

No, I was in the garment. I make clothes for some major brands like Nike. Boom. Adidas, North Face as well. Even I work with Walmart.

[B]

Wow.

[A]

Yeah. We had a huge 2 million pieces for one.

[B]

Jeez.

[A]

This is where my started my first manufacturing journey. I'm married to Chinese woman. My wife Chinese. So we went to China, we set up our factory and then we started getting contracts from big brands through her family. And it went from there. I love manufacturing, so I start doing in general. I don't want to talk about other businesses because watches is the main focus here. But, but I done, I run, I done several businesses and Carmen was the first one to kick everything and fund everything as well.

[B]

Yeah. So you were working with your wife? It sounds like.

[A]

Yes. She support me a lot.

[B]

Nice. That's important.

[A]

We've been married for 15 years now. We have four kids.

[B]

Nice.

[A]

Yeah. I'm so happy with her. She introduced me to many people and opened my mind by when I traveled to Asia with her. Also opened my mind to manufacturing. So this is where I make my money.

[B]

Yeah. I think it's important to have someone good by your side.

[A]

It is, bro. I'm so happy to have him in my life.

[B]

Yeah. I have so many single friends that are just lost, lost in the social media space.

[A]

I was lost. I feel like I came back in the correct path the time I got married. I got married when I'm 19, by the way. Whoa. Yeah.

[B]

That's young.

[A]

Yeah. I'm 33 years early. Yeah, I, I, I got married at 19. You know, when love comes, you have to take. So I got lucky and have the good, good, good luck with the, with the white the first time.

[B]

I love it, Matt. Thank you. Well, what's next? You got any? This one just launched. You working on the next one now?

[A]

Yes, the next one we having going to be an angel tourbillon, which is very complicated thing to do. Only one watchmaker in the world was able to achieve that.

[B]

Wow.

[A]

And they're selling it for $310,000.

[B]

Holy.

[A]

Yeah. So we are was able to create it at 25 degree angle. Tourbillon going to have a sapphire dial as well. Pretty unique watch. I will show you after the podcast. Maybe we can put it.

[B]

Yeah. Why is it so complicated to make?

[A]

Having the tourbillon angled is not something easy to achieve in the industry because, you know these very tiny mechanicals. Yeah. Very hard.

[B]

You got to use a microscope, right?

[A]

Yeah, we're using microscope. But the thing Is manufacturing is the challenge here Because I'm not trying to rely on any suppliers. So this, this movement going to be the first movement completely made by our factory. Not rely on any external supplier. This is what make this movement unique. It's very big challenge. I decided to make this my first fully manufactured by us. This, this, this movement because I want to show the world what we can do. Like this is a big challenge. Having that 300,000 complication for around $10,000. It's a big challenge.

[B]

Yeah, it sounds like a man. Damn.

[A]

It is a big challenge.

[B]

So you were doing this. You've been doing grandeur for 10 years now. Did it take off right away?

[A]

No, it take off after six years.

[B]

Wow. So you didn't give up six years?

[A]

I didn't give up in the company. I was start with making Apple watch cases. So it started. You know everyone love Apple watches but it not look proper to wear it to a million dollar meeting.

[B]

Right.

[A]

So what I did, I take a luxury material such as carbon fiber titanium, create a case for it and then everyone love it. I had $3.8 million sales in the first three months. Geez. It kicks right away and it keeps sales, sales, sale through the years. And through that time I met someone in my wife family as well who's related to the watchmaking industry. And he told me everything I know about the watches these days. Yeah, they are one of the biggest watch factories in China actually.

[B]

In China?

[A]

Yeah, Yeah. I don't want to say the name but they are the one of top three leaders in watchmaking.

[B]

I didn't know China was making watches like that.

[A]

This is the idea that everyone think China not good at making watches. But they are actually doing great stuff. Everyone knows they do cubies but China is not about cubi only. They make a great watch really. There's a brand called Behrens. There's a brand called Familyhood. Just won GBHG award which is. I got nominated last year for two watches. I didn't win but denomination is good enough. It's like Oscar. Like this award is like Oscar for watches.

[B]

That's good.

[A]

It's called gbhd. Yeah, it's amazing. So these two brands, they are big and they have big manufacturing capabilities and very complicated watches. So China has the capabilities. It's up to what you're searching for.

[B]

China's catching up, man.

[A]

Yeah, they are. I think in the coming few years the game will change. Switzerland won't be the one on the whole manufacturing capabilities that China going to get the big Asian in General like Vietnam they have also big, big watchmakers. So I think China going to be have a big slice.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Coming few years.

[B]

Well, they can probably compete on price.

[A]

They do. But not just the price, is the quality they have. They have a good quality. It's like my last few watches are made in China. Like I work with the Chinese. It's our own factory, it's not external suppliers. We was able to achieve great stuff. Like everyone was wondering how we able to achieve that. Like I have a world first lume turbulent. You know that tourbillon thing moving.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

We have it lumed like glow in the dark which is very complicated process because it's very hard to put the luminous materials on it. It will lose the balance. It was very hard to achieve. We did it with our Chinese watchmakers.

[B]

Wow.

[A]

Yeah. It's a big thing. We have the ceramic lume as well. IWC have released that watch just a prototype and then they cancel the mass production because it was too complicated. We released it and we deliver it to customers already. So it's a great achievement. But now the goal is to bring this into usa. So the mini tributer, the watch I told you that make music. This is going to be the first watch made completely in USA besides the Angel Tourbillon. Nice. Yeah.

[B]

How long have you been in America for?

[A]

Since I'm 15. I keep going back but like completely move out. Like let's say three years, four years. Like completely decided to come back to usa.

[B]

No, it's a recent.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

Wow.

[A]

But I've been coming and go since I'm 15.

[B]

Nice. You like it here? Too much.

[A]

I found a gap in the market here. I. I love the country, I love the people here and I think there's a big chance to show who we are while we being here. Because not many people leading in this game here.

[B]

Yeah. Are we the biggest market when it comes to watch buyers.

[A]

Watch buyers. USA is the.

[B]

The bigger. Yes, it's the Singapore is big. I know.

[A]

But USA is the top in the world. Yeah, the top in the world. But again because nobody playing in the manufacturing process here. So I thought USA is the place to be today to play with the.

[B]

Yeah. It sounds like manufacturing is something you know really well.

[A]

I do. So I run as I said before watches I was running few different factories like Garmin. We have a furniture as well. I run a few manufacturing versus so I learned through this time what watches is the fun one. It's my passion. I find my passion with it.

[B]

That's good man.

[A]

Yeah. I was I study graphic design in Germany. I was working the car industry and one of the jobs they was assigned to me is to recreate car engine in a 3D. So I, I learned about mechanics. To be able to create the 3D files of these engines, you need to learn about mechanics, how the gears working and things like that. Then I started getting interested into mechanicals. And then when I figure out that about the watches thing, I'm, I found my passion again, you know, so it led me back to something. I enjoy making watches like, it's something I really like.

[B]

I got a pretty young audience. Would you say they should be chasing their passion first or money first?

[A]

I think it's the passion or the money first. I think if you follow your passion, they have, they must, they are money for it. If you really love something and you follow what you love, you will be able to make money.

[B]

I think so.

[A]

I think passion is before money.

[B]

Yeah. I look back on my journey and I chased money first.

[A]

You know, in early stages, money is important, but when you feel like you have a solid pace, it's time to follow the passion.

[B]

Agreed.

[A]

It's time to follow the, that's what I did. Yeah.

[B]

I think you got to have a base.

[A]

Yes. You know, to have a base and then you follow your passion.

[B]

Yeah. Because you need a little safety net. Because monetizing your passion takes some time.

[A]

Exactly.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Because you need funds to run what you like.

[B]

Yeah, yeah, exactly. Wasn't, wasn't cheap, you know, for me

[A]

when I decided to stop everything and go into this, I remember my account that time have like $5,000.

[B]

Damn.

[A]

Yes. And I said to my wife, I'm tired working to anyone. I was 21 years at that time.

[B]

And now you're gifting me $5,000 item.

[A]

So I went to buy laptop there that time at eighteen hundred dollars. I buy that, then I start drop shipping.

[B]

That's how I started drop shipping.

[A]

I started drop shipping. And then first few months I was able to make equal to my salary that time, which is $3,000 a month. And then one day I met one celebrity and he'll be rewarded my business. And I made like $90,000 in the first day.

[B]

Wow. Drop shipping watches.

[A]

Yes. No, no, no. The watches coming like recently in 2016. That's my early days. We did so like 90,000 the first day. And this is where things change. I, I, the factories I was buying product from, I went and stopped buying this.

[B]

That's crazy.

[A]

When I start making that, that money. Yeah. So the things change too much. So I went back and buy these factories that I was working with.

[B]

That's amazing.

[A]

Now making my own products.

[B]

Same with me. I. I used to drop ship. I remember my first 100k day. Crazy. I partnered with a celebrity.

[A]

I can't forget that.

[B]

I'll never forget that. I looked at my Shopify like. Like oh my God. My life just changed.

[A]

I think I was using WordPress that time. It was so complicated for me. I had to hire some.

[B]

Oh that was before Shopify.

[A]

Yeah, way before Shopify. Yeah. I don't actually recall when Shopify. I just joined Shopify last recently like

[B]

so yeah shout out to Shopify. They sponsored the podcast. But I, I was on WordPress before.

[A]

I just tell my. My. My friend like Shopify changed my life.

[B]

Yeah it's so easy.

[A]

It's so easy to use. They offer everything you need like as a seal up. Like they have so many things. They are great platform.

[B]

Yeah they do everything but WordPress was a nightmare. My site used to crash. It was terrible.

[A]

I. I couldn't scale my business that time I using WordPress. Yeah it scaled a lot after I moved to Shopify.

[B]

100% Shopify doesn't crash.

[A]

Doesn't crash. They have so many tools that help you to monetize your business. Very important. They have the apps, they have plug all things you need to run your business without relying on someone outside. Of course now we own a company that managing these things but like before I'm talking about the early stages like it's. It's very helpful.

[B]

Would you ever want to go retail?

[A]

I do have a retail shop coming in Miami in Design district.

[B]

Nice.

[A]

Yeah. Next to Batik store, right?

[B]

Oh that'll be fun.

[A]

Yes. So we have our first retail store. I was always against retail store idea. Uh but I feel like I needed something, some way to connect to clients because more people want to see me meet me. These days a retail shop is a

[B]

good chance to meet 100% because you could showcase your products. You could probably film content there like a lot of people in the watch space.

[A]

Even though we're not going to have product for sale them.

[B]

Oh really?

[A]

Just like a show.

[B]

So you're going to do what Rolex does.

[A]

We I can do more than. Because everything we do is mostly handmade. We don't do mass production.

[B]

That makes sense.

[A]

So we can actually produce many watches.

[B]

Well the thing I don't like about Rolex is they have stock in the

[A]

back but they don't. But actually we not do this way because we actually our Process they going to be like more like hand finishes which is require a lot of time.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

I'm not doing this game because the big brands doing it but it's actually taking so long.

[B]

You're doing quality over quantity.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Yeah. Because Rolex makes a million watches a year.

[A]

That's a lot. I can do a million watch a year a lot. Like if I do a semi, semi mass production watches I need I can make like 10 to 14,000 watches a year.

[B]

That's it.

[A]

But when I go for yes. When I go full handmade I can cross three 400 order thing here. So we're going to be more exclusive in the next year.

[B]

So yeah these are going to appreciate. Nice.

[A]

We have a good customer. Yes. They already some of our pieces goes in auction. I've saw Strange sold in action for $18,000.

[B]

Why?

[A]

It was retail for $1,300 only so

[B]

it went up 15x. Holy crap.

[A]

So yeah this is the idea. When you create limited pieces, your customer appreciate it also.

[B]

Yeah. So it's a win win.

[A]

Yes. I not many of my watches getting reselled because people love it. They find hard time to to give it to someone else.

[B]

When you overproduce then the watch goes down.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

So you're actually losing money.

[A]

And I don't repeat designs, don't repeat colors, don't repeat designs. Once it's sold out. Sold out. I don't do it again. Wow.

[B]

Done. That's a plus.

[A]

People know they have to get that watch otherwise they won't be able to.

[B]

This is going to be a billion dollar company then.

[A]

I hope so. I'm doing my best again. We come back to the passion. This is my passion.

[B]

I can tell you smiling how much

[A]

money, how much money I'm making out of it. I'm just enjoying every watch, every watch I make is something I want in my wrist. I don't think like this is going to bring me a million dollar sale. No, this is something I want to have on my wrist before how much is going to make money for me.

[B]

I noticed the best artists think that way.

[A]

I love what I do.

[B]

Yeah. The top creative minds, they always put their work first. You know what I mean?

[A]

I think like when I focus on designing a watch it takes me very long time. Sometime five to six months.

[B]

Damn.

[A]

To just be able to come with a design I have to keep something in constant. Like last year I just did four models for the whole year.

[B]

Wow.

[A]

Just four designs for the whole year. This year is going to be less because this year Watches is more complicated. So probably we have 1, 2, 3 releases for this year.

[B]

Wow. Yeah, very exclusive.

[A]

We're going to end up making probably one watch to watch a year and this is going to make the brand super exclusive to get. Yeah, yeah. We zipping some partnerships with people around as well. So.

[B]

Yeah, you got some big ones coming up.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

You patent your watches the design

[A]

again?

[B]

Do you patent the design?

[A]

Of course. Especially when it's about utilities. The mechanical part. Yes, I do. Before I show it in public.

[B]

That's smart. Yeah. So no one steals your ideas. Yes.

[A]

We have the. The world first loan Turbul. We have the world first micro stone, micro rotor. So you know that rotor that rotating the back generate energy. We have made it out of stones too. The first in the world. Because this material very hard to handle

[B]

with and that's impossible.

[A]

But even. Yeah. So people love that idea. We just delivered Mashrabiya rewatch called Mashrabiya. People love it. We collab with the Swiss Sober Lemonova company to make the lume of the watch. Lume is the glowing belt in the watch. People love it. Yeah, people love it.

[B]

Yeah. I know a lot of people copy

[A]

designs so no, we trying to go like as unique as much we can, you know? Yeah. I feel like everything been done already in the industry but I'm still always find way to be creative and.

[B]

Well, yeah, everything's been done. Now they're just replicating all their models

[A]

that work and I don't want to repeat.

[B]

Yeah, they just change the color. Same design, new color every year.

[A]

All companies do that. I don't want to do that. I don't want to do that.

[B]

You don't use metals, right? Gold, silver.

[A]

I do.

[B]

Oh, you do?

[A]

I did the strange in gold. Sold out. No, the other design. I am not wearing the gold Virgin. We did an 18 karat virgin 25. This is limited edition and sold out in one hour. Wow.

[B]

Yeah. Gold appreciated.

[A]

One hour people. The time we finish production, the gold increased by I think buy two, $3,000 from the Watcher. That that's as a goal you melt it. So people was.

[B]

They made money.

[A]

Was silver heavy? Yes.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Yeah. It's a very unique.

[B]

Do you think you'll be using metals in the future as the price gets more and more gold, silver, definitely.

[A]

I will do definitely.

[B]

But it's going up so much.

[A]

I love using titanium in watches more than gold. And how come it's more light, more affordable? I don't want to do what Switzerland do make the watches. 100,000 to 100,000. I want to keep it in the mid range, you know, I don't want to play in the high price. I want to stay in the mid range. So I want to make special editions with gold and silver. But I love titanium. It's my favorite metal in all metals. I love titanium. I want to use it more.

[B]

This?

[A]

Yes. Yeah, this is titanium.

[B]

What, what does Richard Milley use?

[A]

They use carbon fiber and titanium.

[B]

Really?

[A]

On this watch coming. Carbon fiber and titanium.

[B]

Wow. And they charge 2, 300,000.

[A]

This is exactly the same thing.

[B]

Oh my God. Their margins.

[A]

Well, we charge it $2,000. Company they do. They spend a lot of time and money on R and D, but I think and sponsorships.

[B]

They sponsor tennis players and Yes, I think.

[A]

But as a customer, I had a. People will hate me saying that. I get scared when I talk about this thing. But I think they overpriced these watches,

[B]

you know, I mean, you have the inside knowledge of their material costs, so.

[A]

Exactly. So now I know everything. They're overpricing. They put all these sponsorships they're doing and the collaboration, you get a charge for it. Yeah. And I don't think as you as a customer, you would appreciate that. You know, you just want to enjoy a. A good quality watch in your hand.

[B]

I don't want to feel like I'm getting ripped off.

[A]

That's what my, my customers say. They got the quality. They had got the feeling of that 300,000 watch for like few thousand dollars.

[B]

Exactly.

[A]

That's why they feel like, oh, we got something so good for that money.

[B]

Also wearing that makes you a target. Unfortunately these days, wearing a watch like that.

[A]

When I created the Apple watch case, we just talk about it earlier. That was the idea. People when they're traveling to certain country in the world and certain cities, they was having issues wearing any luxury watches. So they stopped. So that Abel watch case we created, it was the best thing to do to exchange of luxury. You got something looks really cool in your hand, but you don't take any risk. If someone come, you just take it out of your hand and give it to.

[B]

Yeah, that's smart.

[A]

No risk.

[B]

Yeah. That's why I don't wear my nice watches out anymore, man. To be honest, this. This is where that thing LA or Miami. Unfortunately, certain parts are bad. You gotta walk around and worry about getting robbed.

[A]

Hey, we always need to be caution. Yeah.

[B]

Sucks crazy times we're in.

[A]

Right. Especially when you put a huge investment in a watch.

[B]

Yeah, yeah.

[A]

And. And these days, these luxury watches are Actually losing money still some of some model making money for people.

[B]

A lot of them.

[A]

A lot of them crushed.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

I'm dying see the market now.

[B]

I imported my portfolio on 24 krono. I'm down 200 000.

[A]

Oh my God.

[B]

Yeah, it's bad.

[A]

I would die man.

[B]

Yeah, I've got a lot but luckily I bought them not with the purpose of reselling them.

[A]

So this is the good thing.

[B]

Yeah. I'm not too upset. I was never going to sell. It's like cars, you know.

[A]

Yeah. But I mean if you someone appreciate watches in not the brands. If you don't look to what the brand our brand offering like seriously good quality watches with a really nice complications some of them you won't find it even in in that luxury brands with this complication.

[B]

Wow. Yeah that's impressive man.

[A]

So yeah, I think people should check us out.

[B]

Yeah, definitely. We we'll link your website in the video.

[A]

Thank you.

[B]

Anything else you got man? We we covered a lot. Anything else you want to close off with here?

[A]

No, nothing coming in my mind. I think

[B]

stay tuned for the Miami store.

[A]

Yes the Miami store. The Miami Manu factory. Yeah. Can actually going to do a tour for our VIB customers.

[B]

Oh that's cool.

[A]

We already started like I think by end of the year the place will be ready for everything. This is the where the huge jump come from.

[B]

I also just want to thank you because you gifted me this today and then the first time I met this guy we didn't even talk. He gifted me a Louis Vuitton wallet and I still use it every day. I think about you when I pull it out. Smart gift wallet. I think very smart gift.

[A]

Yeah. I think wallet is. Is a nice gift. That's why when I meet you the first time gift to you because things related to money always. Always stuck in our minds.

[B]

No, it stood with me. It's been almost a year now since you gave me a. I thought that was a brilliant.

[A]

I'm happy to hear.

[B]

Thank you. Why do you. Why do you gift people things? I guess because that's not a common thing in America.

[A]

Why I give people things. Yeah, I don't know how to answer that. I think. I think people appreciate gifts. Yeah. You know and thank God I'm able to afford this thing because it's stuck in people's hearts. You know I. I never forget any gift I got in my whole life. So I think it's a. A good way to connect people that I like gifting someone something. It mean I like you. I. I want you to be in my. In my circle.

[B]

I love.

[A]

It's not about money. It's not about. It's just the appreciation of knowing someone, you know? Yeah.

[B]

You inspired me because I. Ever since you gave me that, I started gifting more.

[A]

That's. That's. That's good to hear. Yeah.

[B]

People really like that. I just gifted. It's our producer's birthday today. I got her a gift.

[A]

Nice.

[B]

So thank you for that. It's something I picked up from you, man. The lesson I learned.

[A]

Thank you so much.

[B]

We'll link the website below, guys. And the Instagram, you already have a ton of followers, but we'll link that as well.

[A]

Thank you.

[B]

Thanks for coming on, brother.

[A]

See me. Yeah.

[B]

Check them out, guys. See ya.

[A]

Thank you.

[B]

Thanks for watching all the way to the end, guys. Please hit like and subscribe. It helps us grow the show and helps us get bigger guests. Thank you so much.