Digital Social Hour: AI's Impact on Mental Health – A Deep Dive with Jessa White (Episode #764)
Release Date: September 28, 2024
Host: Sean Kelly
Guest: Jessa White, Trauma Therapist

Introduction

In Episode #764 of Digital Social Hour, host Sean Kelly engages in an enlightening conversation with Jessa White, a seasoned trauma therapist. The episode delves into the intricate relationship between artificial intelligence (AI) and mental health, exploring how technological advancements might reshape therapeutic practices and address the growing mental health crisis.

Understanding Trauma and Its Impact

Jessa White begins by defining trauma and its pervasive presence in individuals' lives. She emphasizes that trauma can vary significantly from person to person, encompassing events from childhood to recent experiences.

[00:38] Jessa White: "Trauma can mean something different for everyone. Your trauma could be something that happened in childhood. Your trauma can be something that happened last week."

White discusses the concept of repressed memories, explaining how traumatic experiences, especially those in early childhood, can be stored subconsciously and emerge later in life through maladaptive behaviors.

[01:12] Jessa White: "Early onset childhood trauma people come in with it, and they're usually around your age or older, and they start asking questions and they start remembering things."

She underscores the critical period of brain development from ages 0 to 6, highlighting how early trauma can influence psychological and emotional growth.

[02:03] Sean Kelly: "That's crazy. Well, they say a large part of your brain is formed. Ages 0 through 6."

[02:07] Jessa White: "Of course, attachment, your psychological development, your emotional development, how you love, your needs, all of those things."

The discussion extends to Post-Traumatic Stress Disorder (PTSD), where White notes the shift from PTSD being predominantly associated with veterans to its broader recognition stemming from various traumatic experiences, including relational conflicts.

[02:51] Sean Kelly: "Do you see a lot of veterans right now with PTSD?"

[02:54] Jessa White: "Nowadays, most of the people that I'm seeing with PTSD have early childhood trauma... You can get PTSD from a really bad relationship."

Gender and Therapy

The conversation transitions to the gender dynamics in seeking therapy. Jessa White reveals that while traditionally women have been more likely to seek counseling, her private practice now showcases a more balanced demographic.

[05:42] Sean Kelly: "Would you say majority of your clients are female?"

[05:45] Jessa White: "Not anymore. Luckily, I am in private practice, so I do kind of try and keep an equilibrium with race and age and gender..."

White surprises Kelly by sharing that male clients often exhibit more emotional vulnerability in therapy than their female counterparts.

[06:02] Sean Kelly: "But that doesn't mean that men aren't dealing with mental health issues."

[06:05] Jessa White: "My male clients actually cry in therapy more than women clients do."

Kelly reflects on societal programming that discourages men from showing emotions, noting a slow but positive shift in cultural attitudes.

[06:34] Sean Kelly: "Society, yeah. Just programming to be tough as men. I think most men are just like, that's a form of weakness."

White concurs, emphasizing the importance of emotional awareness and communication in relationships.

[08:21] Sean Kelly: "I find when a man says something to me like... we're doing this right now. Really? Because you're not mad. You're actually feeling insecure. And that is attractive to me."

The Intersection of AI and Mental Health

A significant portion of the episode is dedicated to exploring AI's potential in mental health support. Jessa White discusses groundbreaking research on AI's ability to act as empathetic listeners, potentially serving as companions for those battling loneliness and mental health issues.

[08:34] Sean Kelly: "Speaking of lonely people, you have an interesting take on AI."

[08:36] Jessa White: "I do. Yeah. Something that I find really interesting... we might not be able to discern or even care to discern about whether an AI robot that we're talking to is real or not."

White shares insights from her research, where she trained an AI to emulate compassionate and empathetic responses akin to a therapist's approach.

[09:51] Sean Kelly: "Virtual tours."

[10:05] Jessa White: "I was teaching the AI how to respond and ask questions using supportive reflection and cognitive reframing. And I was teaching the AI to speak to people like a therapist does a person in a session."

While acknowledging the benefits of AI in providing consistent support, White cautions against over-reliance, emphasizing that human empathy remains irreplaceable.

[10:51] Sean Kelly: "Yeah, that's tough to teach a robot."

[10:53] Jessa White: "It is. I think it's going to be great for empathetic listening... But you can't take away this... You’ll never be able to feel an AI's energy."

She envisions a future where AI companions could alleviate feelings of loneliness by offering non-judgmental, always-available support.

[15:05] Sean Kelly: "Yeah, I'm a fan. Because the biggest thing is loneliness."

[15:14] Jessa White: "Vivek Murthy... said loneliness is as dangerous, as harmful as smoking 15 cigarettes a day."

Adolescent Mental Health Crisis

The dialogue shifts to the alarming rise in adolescent depression. Jessa White cites statistics indicating a significant increase in self-reported depression among teenagers, attributing it to various factors, including environmental concerns and the pressures of the digital age.

[16:20] Jessa White: "Current numbers are standing at about 25%... I believe that's also attributing to these kids coming out with really high levels of cortisol."

She highlights the existential dread stemming from concerns about climate change and resource depletion, compounded by the pervasive impact of social media and cyberbullying.

[17:21] Sean Kelly: "And they're growing up with social media, with cyberbullying... That's tough."

White underscores the detrimental effects of reducing individuals to mere metrics and algorithms, which can exacerbate feelings of inadequacy among youth.

[17:37] Jessa White: "Have we reduced people to a metric, to a number?... Their prefrontal cortex isn't developed enough for them to understand that I'm more than this algorithm tells me I am."

Therapeutic Techniques and Personal Insights

Jessa White shares her approach to therapy, blending somatic interventions with traditional talk therapy to help clients release trauma stored in the body.

[21:37] Jessa White: "One of my favorite ones is maybe when you're releasing anger, actively releasing it in the room... Leaning into whatever the emotion you're feeling is."

She recounts a poignant moment with a client where her own unresolved trauma enhanced her ability to empathize and connect deeply during therapy sessions.

[20:43] Sean Kelly: "First time you met her, you felt it?"

[20:46] Jessa White: "I felt it in myself. That's my trauma."

White emphasizes that it's entirely possible—and even beneficial—for therapists to have their own trauma, provided they are actively working through it.

[18:49] Sean Kelly: "There's also a myth you can't be a therapist if you have your own trauma."

[18:50] Jessa White: "You can be a therapist with trauma. You have to be working on it."

Modern Relationship Dynamics

The episode touches upon the trendy practice of discussing attachment styles and love languages on first dates or dating apps. Jessa White critiques this approach, suggesting it might be too premature and could hinder natural relationship development.

[23:29] Sean Kelly: "There's this viral trend of people asking on first dates for attachment styles and love languages."

[23:38] Jessa White: "They're not just asking on first dates, they're asking on dating apps now... it's like a full psychological interview before your first date."

She advocates for allowing relationships to develop organically, rather than delving into deep psychological assessments too early.

[25:09] Sean Kelly: "Right. Yeah, it is deep."

[25:20] Jessa White: "I think that we can wait on asking people their attachment style until like the bill's been paid or something."

Conclusion

As the episode wraps up, Jessa White shares her ongoing commitment to evolving both as a therapist and as an individual. Sean Kelly encourages listeners to seek therapy if needed, highlighting the importance of mental health support in today's rapidly changing world.

[26:44] Jessa White: "I'm working on becoming a better therapist every day and a better person."

[26:51] Sean Kelly: "Thanks for watching, guys. If you need therapy, hit up Jessa, don't."

Key Takeaways

• Trauma is multifaceted and can stem from various life experiences, with childhood trauma having long-lasting effects.
• Gender dynamics in therapy are evolving, with more men seeking emotional support and showing vulnerability.
• AI's role in mental health is growing, offering potential support as empathetic listeners but cannot fully replace human empathy.
• Adolescent mental health is in crisis, exacerbated by environmental concerns, social media, and cyberbullying.
• Effective therapeutic techniques involve a blend of somatic interventions and traditional methods, with therapists benefiting from their own self-awareness and healing.
• Modern relationship practices, such as early disclosure of attachment styles, may be premature and hinder natural relationship development.

Notable Quotes:

• Jessa White [00:38]: "Trauma can mean something different for everyone."
• Jessa White [02:03]: "Early onset childhood trauma people come in with it, and they're usually around your age or older."
• Jessa White [05:42]: "Not anymore. Luckily, I am in private practice, so I do kind of try and keep an equilibrium with race and age and gender."
• Jessa White [06:05]: "My male clients actually cry in therapy more than women clients do."
• Jessa White [08:34]: "Something that I find really interesting... we might not be able to discern or even care to discern about whether an AI robot that we're talking to is real or not."
• Jessa White [15:14]: "Vivek Murthy... said loneliness is as dangerous, as harmful as smoking 15 cigarettes a day."
• Jessa White [22:11]: "Which a lot of somatic therapists believe that it stores in our body as kind of these frozen orbs."
• Jessa White [23:38]: "They're not just asking on first dates, they're asking on dating apps now... it's like a full psychological interview before your first date."

This episode of Digital Social Hour offers a comprehensive exploration of the intersections between AI and mental health, providing listeners with valuable insights into trauma, therapeutic practices, and the evolving landscape of emotional support in the digital age.