Alex Duvall:Poker's YouTube War: Why Creators Are Losing Big | DSH #1440

Summary

Digital Social Hour Episode Summary

Title: Alex Duvall: Poker's YouTube War: Why Creators Are Losing Big | DSH #1440
Release Date: July 9, 2025
Host: Sean Kelly
Guest: Alex Duvall, Professional Poker Player and Content Creator

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1. Introduction

In this episode of Digital Social Hour, host Sean Kelly welcomes Alex Duvall, a professional poker player and content creator, to discuss the burgeoning challenges poker content creators are facing on YouTube. The conversation delves deep into YouTube's censorship issues, the impact on creators, the dynamics of the World Series of Poker (WSOP), and the mental strains associated with a career in professional poker.

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2. YouTube's Censorship of Poker Content

Alex opens the discussion by highlighting YouTube's recent crackdown on poker-related content. He states, "YouTube is waging a war right now against poker specifically. I think they've gotten some new rules and, like, poker has been having a lot of problems with, like, people getting their videos taken down for unknown reasons" (00:32). This unspecific enforcement has led to numerous creators, including prominent figures like Brad Owen, experiencing video removals without clear explanations.

Key Points:

• Regulated Goods Misclassification: Alex argues that categorizing poker as regulated goods is "illogical," noting, "as if you're selling something illegal. But a lot of the videos, no one's selling anything" (00:50).
• Consequences of Strikes: Initial video takedowns can escalate to strikes, potentially suspending channels. Alex shares the plight of Ryan Depaulo, who received his second strike, restricting his ability to post content for two weeks (01:38).

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3. Impact on Poker Content Creators

The host and Alex discuss the broader implications of YouTube's actions on creators' livelihoods. Sean points out, "you make a living partially off your content, right?" (01:35), emphasizing the dependency many creators have on platforms like YouTube for revenue through AdSense and sponsorships. The lack of direct communication with YouTube adds to the frustration, especially for smaller creators.

Notable Quote: Alex reflects on the community's response, "But yeah, you don't have anyone," underscoring the isolation creators feel when dealing with censorship (01:16).

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4. The WSOP and Chip Dumping Controversy

A significant portion of the discussion centers on a controversial incident at a WSOP event involving chip dumping. Alex explains, "player was ship dumping to another player... offering a $1 million bonus" (02:15), detailing how two players manipulated the game to secure a bonus by playing sub-optimally. This act of chip dumping, while technically a form of cheating, has been somewhat tolerated within the community due to its confined impact.

Key Points:

• Community Consensus: Alex mentions, "the general consensus of the poker community was if it's between just them, you know, it's all good" (03:34), highlighting a gray area in the rules.
• Potential Rule Changes: The debate extends to whether chopping should be reintroduced, with Alex suggesting, "you can set it up to where two players can chop and then you can play for the bracelet or a small increment of money" (04:24).

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5. Debates on Chopping in Poker

The conversation shifts to the practice of chopping, where players agree to split winnings to mitigate risk. Alex contends that while traditionally prohibited in WSOP events, there could be a structured way to allow it without diminishing the prestige of winning bracelets.

Notable Quote: Alex proposes a compromise, saying, "someone can chop and then you can play for the bracelet or a small increment of money so you can play for, you know, 10k on the side plus the bracelet" (04:22).

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6. Balancing Poker Playing and Content Creation

Alex discusses the challenges of juggling a professional poker career with content creation, especially amidst YouTube's censorship issues. He shares his personal struggle in deciding whether to prioritize poker or YouTube, highlighting the difficulty in maintaining a balance between the two demanding pursuits.

Key Points:

• Content vs. Poker Focus: Alex admits, "I care more about poker, so maybe I put more effort into, you know, trying to become a better player. But I also definitely love YouTube" (08:10).
• Community Observations: Sean references Rampage's predicament, who spends significant time on content creation at the expense of refining his poker skills (08:37).

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7. Becoming a Profitable Poker Player

Alex shares his journey from being unprofitable during his college years to achieving profitability post-graduation. Winning a WSOP circuit event allowed him to pay off his college debt, marking a turning point in his poker career.

Notable Moments:

• Early Struggles: "I was a losing poker player in college and then when I got out of college I think I became profitable" (09:04).
• Transition to Cash Games: Alex emphasizes the stability of cash games over tournaments, stating, "In cash you can sit there, you can lose a big tournament, you can lose a big pot, but then you can turn around and win even bigger one" (10:31).

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8. Declining Prestige of WSOP Bracelets

The host and Alex discuss the dilution of the prestige associated with WSOP bracelets due to the increasing number of events and the rise of online tournaments. Alex opines that the prestige remains higher for live bracelets compared to online ones, as live play involves more skill factors like reads and tells.

Key Points:

• Increase in Events: "they have like 100 events... and then you can go now like in a separate series in winter and win bracelets" (11:05).
• Live vs. Online: Alex believes live bracelets hold more weight, saying, "live bracelet is still more important than the online bracelet" (12:11).

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9. GTO vs. Exploitative Play in Poker

The discussion delves into Game Theory Optimal (GTO) strategies versus exploitative play. Alex identifies himself more as an exploitative player, leveraging opponents' tendencies and making reads based on their actions.

Notable Quote: Alex states, "I think I'm better at exploitive and kind of like just identifying... what someone's betting this size in this certain spot" (13:41).

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10. Poker Personalities and the GOAT Debate

Sean and Alex debate who deserves the title of the Greatest of All Time (GOAT) in poker. While acknowledging Phil Hellmuth's accomplishments, Alex suggests Phil Ivey as a stronger contender due to his enigmatic presence and consistent high-level performance.

Key Points:

• Phil Hellmuth: Recognized for his numerous bracelets but questioned on his current standing.
• Phil Ivey: Favored for his mysterious aura and substantial achievements, Alex compares him to Michael Jordan, stating, "he's like the MJ of poker people" (17:22).

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11. Mental Health in Poker

The conversation shifts to the mental toll that professional poker can take. Alex recounts Tom Dwan's recent mental health scare and underscores the high-stress environment of poker, likening it to other high-pressure careers.

Notable Quote: Alex reflects, "betting and losing thousands, tens of thousands of every day, like could be pretty harsh on someone's mental" (30:55).

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12. Closing Remarks

As the episode wraps up, Sean wishes Alex luck in his upcoming main event, highlighting the relentless and unforgiving nature of poker. The conversation leaves listeners with a comprehensive understanding of the multifaceted challenges faced by poker content creators and professional players alike.

Final Quote: Sean concludes, "good luck in the main event. Hope you make a deep run" (35:53).

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Key Takeaways

• YouTube's Censorship: Significantly impacts poker content creators, leading to loss of revenue and challenges in maintaining online presence.
• WSOP Dynamics: Incidents like chip dumping and debates over chopping the prize pool reveal underlying tensions in maintaining the integrity and prestige of poker tournaments.
• Mental Health Concerns: The high-stakes, high-pressure environment of professional poker necessitates robust mental health support systems.
• GOAT Debate: Phil Ivey is often favored over Phil Hellmuth for the GOAT title due to his consistent performance and enigmatic presence in the poker world.
• Balancing Careers: Professional poker players engaged in content creation face the dilemma of prioritizing between improving their game and maintaining their online brand.

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Notable Quotes with Timestamps

• "YouTube is waging a war right now against poker specifically." — Alex Duvall [00:32]
• "But yeah, you don't have anyone." — Alex Duvall [01:16]
• "the general consensus of the poker community was if it's between just them, you know, it's all good." — Alex Duvall [03:34]
• "someone can chop and then you can play for the bracelet or a small increment of money" — Alex Duvall [04:22]
• "I think I'm better at exploitive and kind of like just identifying... what someone's betting this size in this certain spot" — Alex Duvall [13:41]
• "betting and losing thousands, tens of thousands of every day, like could be pretty harsh on someone's mental" — Alex Duvall [30:55]

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Timestamps Reference

• Timestamps mentioned correspond to the points in the transcript where notable quotes and discussions occur, aiding listeners in locating specific segments of the podcast.

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This comprehensive summary captures the essence of the conversation between Sean Kelly and Alex Duvall, providing insights into the intersection of professional poker, content creation, and the challenges posed by digital platforms like YouTube.

Transcript

[Alex]

Like, what do you consider the highest, like, stress level careers, right? Ever? Maybe poker player could be one of them. You know, they say, like, air traffic controller, they say that's like, one of them. But, you know, where do you put poker player at? Like, as a career or a professional gambler? Like, betting and losing thousands, tens of thousands of every day, like, could be pretty harsh on someone's mental.

[Host]

All right, guys, we got Alex here, professional poker player and content creator. Thanks for coming on, man.

[Guest]

Yeah, my pleasure.

[Host]

Yeah, I know you've been dealing with some censorship issues lately, huh?

[Alex]

Yes, on YouTube. I think, like, YouTube is waging a war right now against poker specifically. I think they've gotten some new rules and, like, poker has been having a lot of problems with, like, people getting their videos taken down for unknown reasons.

[Host]

So they don't even give you a reason.

[Alex]

Well, it's like, regulated goods. It makes no sense. Like, as if you're selling something illegal. But a lot of the videos, no one's selling anything. Even, like, Brad Owen, who's huge, he's had a problem with, like, his vlogs getting taken down, stuff like that.

[Host]

So do you get a strike or do they just take it down?

[Alex]

Well, it starts off by just getting taken down, and then if you get more and more getting taken down, then eventually you will get a strike.

[Host]

Yeah. And YouTube's a frustrating platform because you don't really have someone you could talk to one on one.

[Alex]

Well, exactly. You don't have someone, especially if you're a smaller creator. And even the creators at Brad Size, he didn't have anyone when he was first tweeting about this. Even, like, Dame Negrona was, like, tweeting something about, you know, know, having videos taken down. So he might have someone by now because, you know, he's obviously super big. But, yeah, you don't have anyone.

[Host]

That's scary because you make a living partially off your content, right?

[Alex]

Yeah, for sure. And even if you're not making money from YouTube, you know, AdSense and sponsors, stuff like that, if it's, you know, representing your brand and that kind of thing, then it's a big problem if you can't even post. I know another guy, like, you know, Ryan Depaulo? No, he's a big poker guy and he just had his second strike. Or on YouTube, so it's like he can't post for two weeks. And people are like, hey, like, I thought you were gonna post that video. And he's like, yeah, I can't post.

[Host]

Yeah, because the news cycle. So Quick in poker.

[Alex]

Yeah, yeah, especially.

[Host]

Yeah, especially right now with all the drama going on. I feel like every day there's a new update on that cheating story from that event. The million dollar WPT event.

[Alex]

Yeah, yeah. So there was a million dollar millionaire maker was the tournament at wsop and basically player was ship dumping to another player. But the reason was because of an outside poker company called WPT where they were actually offering a $1 million bonus to one of the players. So let's imagine two people playing heads up. One of the players could only get the bonus. So imagine first place is 1.2 million, second place is a million. And what are you going to do if this guy can make an extra million? Well, someone you want to, you want to try to get that million, right? So, so they set it up to where even though the guy had a chip lead that was like 9 to 1 deficit, he had like that many more chips, huge chip lead. The guy, the shorter stack, he ended up, you know, winning and taking it down because he just played. They, they made it out to playing hands to where he could win. Silly, silly hands where like, you know, you'd raise with like 8, 4 off and get 3, bet by 8, 3 off and the 8, 4 would fold and just like set up hands like this. And the commentators are like, oh, I don't know what's happening here. Like, we don't know what's going on, but what's going on is clear chip dumping and this kind of thing where, you know, they want to get the million dollar bonus. Yeah, so, so yeah.

[Host]

Are you against chip dumping?

[Alex]

I mean, in general, yes. It's a good thing to be against. It's like form of cheating in poker. But in this format where we didn't think the third player or anyone else at the table was being affected. No, because like you get an additional million dollars. I mean, it's between two players. This was a general consensus of the poker community was if it's between just them, you know, it's, it's all good. I mean, it's worth it, right? Like, what would you do, you know?

[Host]

Yeah, you got to put yourself in their shoes and be honest. Yeah, 99% of people would do the same thing.

[Alex]

Yeah. And the only reason they're doing it is because the WSOP has had a long time rule of no chopping. So if there's a million for first, 1.2 million for, you know, whatever. If this is how it's set up, you can't chop. They want a winner. Like they want A winner to get the bracelet.

[Host]

Do you think they should bring chopping into the mix?

[Alex]

I think they probably should. I mean, I understand the aspect of not, you know, awarding the bracelet if it's being chopped, but the thing is you can set it up to where two players can chop and then you can play for the bracelet or a small increment of money so you can play for, you know, 10k on the side plus the bracelet. So someone's still going to win the bracelet. And most of the time you don't even know the details of chopping of what's happening. And also it's funny, there are cases where chopping has probably happened at the WSOP in the past, but no one really knows about it because they went about it in a different way. You know, just behind the scenes.

[Host]

Yeah.

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[Host]

Go anywhere without it. Yeah. So Martin Cabral just got his fourth bracelet. Yeah, shout out to him.

[Alex]

Yeah, shout out.

[Host]

Martin making headlines.

[Guest]

Yeah.

[Alex]

People are on Twitter like, the sim is broken. Like, what's happening? You know, this has. We're in a sim. But, yeah, I think he's been hilarious. I think the coverage on him this year has been huge as compared to previous years. I mean, he's always gotten attention, but this year I think he's definitely come off more likable. People in the past maybe, like, really didn't like him. And even now, people, you know, find annoyance with them sometimes, obviously. But a lot of the things he's saying, people love it.

[Host]

So I'm a fan. I think he's obviously playing into it. Yeah, I don't think he's actually like that. You know what I mean?

[Alex]

Yeah, it's definitely a personality. He creates this now. You know, in poker, there's a thing called gto. He's got the same thing called G, R, O. And no one really even knows what that means. I personally think just because, like, on a keyboard, if you're texting, like the T is right next to the R, it's like, maybe he just, like, mistyped one day and he's like, oh, this is my thing now, Gro. But, yeah, I don't know. We'll see what he says to that.

[Host]

Do you spend more time making content or actually playing poker? Right now?

[Alex]

Right now playing poker for sure. And especially now that my channel just got a second strike. So we'll see if that gets reverse. But, yeah, I totally think about this all the time. Because when you're a poker player and also doing content, it's like, what do you do more? You're. Do you care more about poker? Do you care more about YouTube? And there's a. It's kind of hard, very hard to find a balance.

[Host]

Right. I just had Rampage on, actually, and he was describing this. This conundrum because it's Two full time jobs, full time hats and he doesn't have time to do like poker lessons and get better at the game because he's spending so much time on content.

[Alex]

Right, right.

[Guest]

Yeah.

[Alex]

I mean, like I said, it depends on what you care more about. I personally do care more about poker, so maybe I put more effort into, you know, trying to become a better player. But I also definitely love YouTube and posting that kind of thing, so.

[Host]

Yeah.

[Guest]

So yeah.

[Host]

How long did it take you to become profitable as a poker player?

[Alex]

I would say like, so I was definitely unprofitable. When I was playing in college I went to Virginia Tech and I would play like 10 cent, 20 sender 20 I think 10 cents, 25 cent. So like buying for $60 was really like a big buy in. And I mean all of throughout my time in college I probably lost like 2k total. But that's not a lot. But like when you're in college, you know, you're losing, that kind of thing. So I was a losing poker player in college and then when I got out of college I think I became profitable. I. I won a WSOP circuit event like very soon after I got out of college actually paid for my college debt.

[Guest]

Wow.

[Alex]

Yeah, so it was like I had like over 20k in college debt. I won this tournament for like 43k. Damn. And so yeah, I was that by luck or.

[Host]

You trained a lot for that tournament.

[Alex]

I mean I definitely got better over time. Like I was actually playing tournaments after college at like a. Underground, I guess. Underground, it's like not a casino but like based out of Charlotte, North Carolina is where I was living at the time. And I played tournaments and I would always win these like small buy in tournaments for like a couple thousand grand or a grand here, grand here, you know, that kind of thing. And so yeah, I mean, I don't know where I was going, but I always, at that time, I think that's when I became profitable. And then like once I learned more about it and became more of a cash game player, that's where I really became profitable.

[Host]

So you like the cash games more.

[Alex]

Than tournaments right now? Yeah, but tournaments are definitely like more fun to like go into deep and win. But if you just keep losing and losing, losing, it's like, why am I doing this? It's like pointless. It starts to feel pointless. You have to in cash you can sit there, you can lose a big tournament, you can lose a big pot, but then you can turn around and win even bigger one, you know, so it's like way easier to recover. But tournament, if you don't go deep, it's really not as fun it seems.

[Host]

Like most pros I talk to lean more towards cash games, right?

[Alex]

Yeah, probably.

[Guest]

Yeah.

[Host]

Yeah. Other than Phil Hellmuth.

[Guest]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Alex]

Also like with tournaments, you kind of have to be backed at a certain, certain level because if you don't, then you're just losing a lot in the beginning until you hit a big score, you know, unless you're like someone who hits a big score in the very beginning and then you have like that bankroll to supply your tournament buy ins. Then a lot of the times you have to get backed and so cash game, you don't really have to do that. You can just kind of buy in and keep winning and you'll be good.

[Host]

Makes sense.

[Guest]

Yeah.

[Host]

Now there's a Hunter events at the World Series this year. Do you think winning a bracelet has lost its. I don't know what the word is, but like, like.

[Alex]

Yeah, yeah, it definitely has. And it's not just that there's 100 events, it's that there's like even more than that online. Like like two or 300 online. And then you can go now like in a separate series in winter and wind bracelets. So I definitely agree that they have lost their prestige in that kind of thing. I think like the live bracelet is still more important than the online bracelet. Even though online play is harder, it's still like kind of a more important thing, I think live than online.

[Host]

Yeah. Online you can't get as much of an edge. Right. You can't have the reads and the tells.

[Alex]

Yeah, true. And you're not like put under the lights, the final table, you know, this kind of thing. I think that's why the pressure.

[Guest]

Yeah.

[Host]

You're naked in your bedroom.

[Guest]

You could be.

[Host]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I think in person. I like watching in person more. I can't get like, I'll watch online highlights or whatever and I'm not really into it.

[Guest]

Yeah.

[Host]

You know.

[Guest]

Yeah, yeah.

[Alex]

You have to be like kind of like a GTO nerd and like someone who really cares about the way they're like playing against each other to like really like what's going on online, to like see like, oh, why did he make it that size? Or what did he do? You know, that kind of thing.

[Guest]

Yeah.

[Host]

Are you, Would you consider yourself a GTO nerd?

[Alex]

Somewhat. Like, I mean if I see like a sick play, like you know, a sizing player, someone did something very unordinary, then I definitely like want to watch and see why and that kind of thing for sure.

[Host]

Because I had Bryn Kenny on, and he said he just destroys the GTO nerds.

[Guest]

Oh, yeah. Yeah.

[Host]

So I think there's, like, a way to play against them, I guess.

[Guest]

Yeah, yeah.

[Host]

And he just mastered it.

[Guest]

Yeah.

[Alex]

Well, maybe. I mean, like. Like, maybe that just comes down to experience and getting player reads and that kind of thing, but there's definitely a balance. If you can do both, then it's pretty hard to beat you. And I've seen people even playing online who are good at gto and they know, like, what to do in certain spots, but then they know just because of the way you made the sizing bet and this kind of thing, these different little reads, that you can also, you know, exploit that.

[Host]

So, yeah, I like what you said. I think you need both. You need the technical and the. Which one are you better at?

[Alex]

I mean, I think I'm better at exploitive and kind of like just identifying, you know, what. Why someone's betting this size in this certain spot and that kind of thing. I could definitely become better at GTO and that kind of thing. I could definitely study more.

[Host]

That makes sense. So Isaac Haxton, as we're doing this episode, he's at another final table. He's known for wearing a mask. Do you care if people are wearing masks at your table?

[Alex]

I don't really care. Yeah, I mean, I know some people.

[Host]

Do, some people don't know.

[Alex]

Yeah, I mean, I understand why people care. And I think, you know, like, others in the past, like, past, like Bill, how you have, like, called him out and said, like, he doesn't need to be wearing a mask like this. It's done to hide poker tells and this kind of thing. Although the same breath, like, Hellmuth always, like, puts his hand here, like, so Helmut is, like, always trying to hide his own poker tales and stuff like that.

[Guest]

Right.

[Alex]

So I don't know. Maybe it's. Maybe it is why Ike is doing it. Maybe Ike is doing it because, you know, he's just trying to stay not sick. I really don't know.

[Host]

Yeah, No, I think he has made a statement saying he still fears for the C word.

[Guest]

Oh, yeah.

[Host]

Not trying to get censored.

[Alex]

Do they still do that on YouTube?

[Host]

I don't know. They all. The V word for sure.

[Guest]

Yeah.

[Host]

Speaking of Hellmuth, do you think he's the go of poker?

[Alex]

Yeah, I mean, I don't know if he's the goat. I. I think he's certainly has that white magic that he describes and, you know, he's.

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[Host]

Thank you.

[Alex]

Certainly has things that people can't really describe. I was just watching the movie, like Limitless. You know this movie.

[Host]

That's a good one.

[Guest]

Yeah, yeah.

[Alex]

Where this guy just takes these pills and he's just like. Turns into a. Like, knows everything. Hellmuth definitely has something there. But then, you know, you can see him use that white magic, and sometimes it just totally doesn't work. So I think to be the Goat, you really have to be playing like the high rollers and these really big binds versus all of the greatest players. And I think he has said that, you know, his results in the past have shown that he can do that. But I think that's like a 10 or 11 sample size, like different tournaments he's played. But I think he needs to play more. You look at someone like Daniel Negreanu. Daniel Negreanu is playing these big high rollers against the best in the world, and he's like, final tabling a lot of them. Even right now, he's final tabled, like a bunch of WSP events, you know. So I just think that he needs to put him. He needs to be playing these bigger events if he wants to be the Goat. And it takes, for sure, a ton of skill to navigate in these really big field events, like, you know, 1K 2K plus players. And if you can go far in those, like, that's a whole nother separate skill set he has, for sure. But I just think he needs to be playing bigger tournaments with the highest level pros of today to be considered the Goat. He's definitely all credit to him.

[Guest]

He's.

[Alex]

I mean, he's got the most bracelets and everything, so he's definitely a huge winner in poker. And he's. Like I said, he's got white magic. He's got some sort of something that people can't really explain. A lot of moves he makes and that kind of thing. But. But yeah, my. I don't know who my Goat is. I think. I guess I would just say Phil Ivey, because he's got that, like, he's got a. He's got a lore, right? Like, he's got a. A certain sense of him where he's. He's kind of unknown, right?

[Guest]

He.

[Alex]

He had this like, baccarat scandal a long time ago. Or not. Not Baccarat, but it was Bach. It was.

[Host]

It Was baccarat.

[Alex]

It was edge sorting and something. I think it was.

[Host]

With baccarat.

[Alex]

Yeah, with baccarat. And so, like, that was. That was huge news. I just think he doesn't do a lot of interviews. He doesn't do, like, a lot of press. I. I think that aspect of it is very cool. And, you know, he obviously has had a ton of results himself, so.

[Host]

Yeah, he's like a mystery, right?

[Alex]

Yeah, that's what I'm saying.

[Guest]

Yeah.

[Host]

I feel like people. He's like the MJ of poker people.

[Alex]

Exactly.

[Host]

Right.

[Alex]

Yes, exactly. I think that's a great comparison. People have made that comparison, for sure.

[Host]

Yeah. Who do you think the best is right now, though? Because I agree. I think Ivy's the goat. But do you think he's the best right now?

[Alex]

Not probably right now, no. Unless he, like, starts to play way more and starts to win way more. He's not the best right now. Right now is probably some guy we've never heard of who's like, you know, from different country, non us or something. We've never heard of him, but he's just been winning a lot and. A lot, a lot.

[Host]

Mateo's.

[Alex]

Yeah, maybe. Maybe Mateus. But there's another guy, like Arthur.

[Host]

I've seen that name.

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[Host]

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[Guest]

Yeah.

[Alex]

But he just won, like, a bracelet and then he just won a huge event at the wc or at the Win, actually, for like, over a million. And he kind of just comes to the WSOP and just wins a bunch of events and then, like, goes home. Like, I need to look it up afterwards. Sorry, I don't know your name if I'm. If you're watching this. But, like, I think they did an interview with him and he's like, yeah, the WSOP is my vacation. I just come here and then play and then go back home.

[Host]

What a legend. Yeah, he's like the Nicola Jokic of World Series of Poker.

[Guest]

Yeah, yeah.

[Host]

If you watch basketball.

[Guest]

Okay.

[Alex]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. So I. I need to look him up, but. Sorry, I don't know your name.

[Host]

Well, shout out to him.

[Guest]

Yeah, shout out.

[Host]

Someone should make a video on him and find out how he's doing that.

[Alex]

Yeah, they'll be like, they were talking about this guy and.

[Guest]

Yeah.

[Host]

Oh, you mentioned Nagrano earlier. Did you see his beef with Alan Keating?

[Alex]

Yes, of course I saw the beef.

[Host]

Who did you side with on that one?

[Alex]

I don't know if I sided with anyone. I think I. I think I said that. You know, I think what Keating was doing was good. I think calling people out is fun and I think it's good for entertainment. It's good for, to build things up. You know, Doug Polk was a master at doing this. He did this all the time to everyone. He started a rivalry with Dan Negrano actually, specifically Daniel Negrano that we're talking about him. And he got, you know, a heads up match off that and super entertaining, all that. Right. And so Alan Keating started to do that and I thought it was going to go further, but I thought Keating was going to play some high rollers, but it looks like he played maybe one in the beginning, like the 25k heads up match and he didn't continue after that. But yeah, I think what he did was cool. I think it's fine. It's funny, I think Daniel Negrona shouldn't have taken it like too personal or whatever because even in Daniel grand, his podcast, he didn't even really want to like mention Keating's name. Wow. Yeah. Like, he's talking to his wife Amanda in their podcast that gets a little crazy. Says some crazy stuff about what they do in their, their private life. But he mentioned like his wife was. His wife. Amanda was like, can we not even say his name? And Daniel was like, no, no, we can. Keating, like, Keating. And so he like brings it out. Like finally he says Keating. But. But yeah, I think, I think it's all good for poker. I think it's all entertainment. You know, this is entertaining industry. Right? Like, you have to be, you have to. It's kind of just like social media influencers, right? Like, why not start something? Why not talk to someone, that kind of thing. Like, I think it's fine. Yeah.

[Host]

And I'm a fan of that. So I had Jamie Gold on last week and he was talking about how you can't really talk at the table anymore if you're mid hand. And I think we should bring that back.

[Guest]

Yeah.

[Alex]

I mean, can you not talk at the table? And like, what's.

[Host]

I think he meant like, if you're mid hand and it's you against someone and there's people at the table. Oh, something like that.

[Guest]

Yeah.

[Alex]

If there's other people involved in the hand, you can't. But I think if it's heads up, you can.

[Host]

If it's heads up.

[Alex]

Yeah, if it's heads up. I'm pretty sure you're allowed to say anything as long as it doesn't have to do with the exact like, hand. Like, oh, I have aces. What are you going to do you? Can't really say that. Like, I think that'll get you in trouble.

[Host]

Really?

[Alex]

Yeah, because you're, like, influencing, like, the. The play of what you have and that kind of thing. But I agree. I think you should be able to talk.

[Host]

It makes it more fun to watch.

[Alex]

Man.

[Host]

When Jamie won his. His title, he was shit talking the whole way to the final table.

[Guest]

Yeah.

[Host]

And it was just so entertaining, you know what I mean? And you don't see that anymore.

[Guest]

Yeah.

[Host]

Now when I see guys at the final table at the main event, I don't even know any of them.

[Guest]

Yeah.

[Host]

And it's like, what are you known for?

[Guest]

Yeah.

[Host]

You know what I mean?

[Alex]

It would be pretty baller if someone at the funnel table, like, of the main event this year just comes in and is just like, I'm going to beat you all. He just starts talking shit, like, as soon as he sits down, even who knows what his stack is. But that would be sick.

[Host]

I think it'd be good for poker.

[Alex]

Yeah, it'd be hilarious.

[Host]

I think everyone's acting like an NPC and just gto and it's like everyone.

[Alex]

Thinks they have to, like, be quiet and just, like, be silent and hide their face and that kind of thing. And I will say part of that has to do with, like, your confidence level in your game. I gotta be honest. Like, when I first started playing poker, I might have done that, like, you know, because it was. It was so intimidating. Intimidating. Yeah, it was so intimidating when I was playing when I first started. So you want to, like, you know, kind of like put yourself in a shell, like you don't want to talk to anybody, but once you have some confidence and you get more used to playing and you have a better game, then it becomes way easier, and you can definitely start shit talking and talking to anybody at the table and having fun.

[Guest]

Yeah.

[Host]

Yeah. Do you talk your when you play?

[Alex]

I don't talk shit, but I talk for fun. You know, I'll just be like, you know, what are you gonna do? And, you know, just. Or just have fun table talk, you know, even if it's not during the hand, just talk to people at the table. Because most people don't talk to people.

[Host]

You know, these days. Right.

[Guest]

Yeah.

[Host]

Yeah. I don't like that.

[Guest]

Yeah.

[Host]

I think, like, when I grew up watching poker on. On the tv, everyone was just friends talking with each other.

[Guest]

Yeah.

[Host]

And I feel like it's not like that anymore.

[Alex]

No, for sure. It's. It's in the. In. In total, like, in the, like, Public mostly. It's not like that, but for sure.

[Host]

Do you just play every day, like in Vegas, like at the casinos?

[Alex]

Sometimes the casinos, sometimes online and sometimes in private games for different events or whatever it is.

[Guest]

Yeah.

[Host]

And are you pretty much profitable at those games?

[Alex]

Yeah, for sure. It's kind of strange because after being in poker this long, by now you can kind of choose when you want to play. A little bit crazy. You can choose when you want to play for sure. Or like, I want to win tonight no matter what. You can choose if you don't care as much. Maybe it's smaller stakes and you just want to have an entertaining hand. For a vlog or for social media, you can choose this stuff at a, at a certain level.

[Host]

What a cool skill to have to know you could just make money whenever you want.

[Alex]

Yeah. I mean, it kind of sounds crazy because you're, you know, like someone who doesn't know poker is like, you're still gambling, you're not going to be like making money whenever you want. But in reality, like if you're doing the right things over and over and over, you can, you know, you may not make money in one specific spot, but you're going to make money.

[Host]

Like the longer you play, the better.

[Alex]

Yeah, right. Yeah, for sure.

[Host]

Yeah. Because you've probably seen almost every hand imaginable at this point.

[Guest]

Yeah, yeah.

[Host]

So nothing phases you?

[Alex]

Not necessarily that nothing phases me, but I mean, there was, there was a hand at the win recently, for example, like final three players. One player had like 10 blind, 10 big blinds. The chip leader had like 40 big blinds and the second place leader had like 30 big blinds. Right. So the 10 big blind stack was in the big blind with tens, Small blind had kings and the chip leader had seven, eight off.

[Guest]

Wow.

[Alex]

And they're playing for like millions. So the pay differences between these three places is millions. Huge. Right. The chip leader, because there's so much ICM pressure. This is like a nerd like term, but it has to do with the payouts. Right. Because there's so much ICM pressure. The chip leader just jams seven, eight off.

[Host]

Damn.

[Alex]

And so small blind is supposed to fold like a lot of really good hands. He's not folding kings, but he's supposed to fold a lot. Same thing with big blind. Anyways, because he has kings, he calls. And the big blind, I don't think really knew much about icm. I don't think he's supposed to call with here with tens, but he, he calls. And the run out is like he Flops, top set with kings. And then there's a seven on flop, turn seven, river seven.

[Host]

No way.

[Alex]

He ends up with quads and the tournament's over just like that.

[Advertiser]

Holy crap.

[Guest]

Yeah.

[Alex]

This is something I just saw recently on Twitter, and a player who's, like, really big right now named Jesse. I don't know his last name, but he goes by, like, gorilla. I'm sure you know who he is, but he tweeted about it, and it's just like, an insane hand that you would never expect to see live, you know, that's like an online movie hand.

[Guest]

So.

[Host]

No, that's nuts. That's one of the craziest ones I've ever heard of.

[Alex]

Yeah, that kind of made me. I don't know what we were talking about that made me think of that.

[Host]

Does anything phase, you know?

[Guest]

Yeah.

[Alex]

Oh, that would, like, phase you, you know, for sure. That would phase you.

[Host]

Have you ever had a royal flush?

[Alex]

I had it one time at the win, but they don't. But they don't have any bonuses. So, like, the dealer, essentially it was. I hit it on the river or something. It wasn't a big pot, and I'm like, oh, look what I got. And the dealer's, like, mucking the cards and, like, it doesn't matter because it doesn't. You know, it doesn't matter. They don't pay out, like, in a bonus or anything, really.

[Host]

Yeah, because certain casinos pay you, like, 2001 or something, right?

[Alex]

Exactly. Certain casinos give you, like, a big payout, like, high hand bonus just for hitting a royal, like, $1,000 or whatever it may be. And because when, for whatever reason, they don't do that, which I think is fine, just because I think, you know, they're a better, like, environment casino and that kind of thing than a lot. But they didn't have any bonus and.

[Guest]

Yeah.

[Alex]

So I was just like, oh, let me take a picture. Nope, it's gone.

[Host]

So you like playing out the win a lot?

[Alex]

Yeah, I like the win.

[Host]

It's probably the nicest hotel in Vegas.

[Alex]

For sure.

[Guest]

For sure.

[Host]

Yeah. Shout out to the win. And they have a lot of tournaments during the World Series, right?

[Alex]

Yeah, tournaments and cash games. Everything is. Everything's big there.

[Host]

Yeah, they have a little Molly's room in the back somewhere.

[Alex]

I've heard about this, but I've never. I've never seen it. They have the. They have the back, like, the big stakes in the back, but then there's like a. Another.

[Host]

Another level. You probably need, like, a million to get in there?

[Alex]

Probably. Probably.

[Host]

What's the wildest place you've played? Like celebrity's house or something?

[Alex]

No, no, I. Wildest place I've played. I don't know. I need to see. This is. I need to play at more wild places, you know, like the Molly's room, storage. No, no, no, nothing like that. Yeah, probably just crazy apartment or something.

[Host]

Like, you've never been shocked a person next to you is like a celebrity or.

[Alex]

Well, no, no, big celebrity. Actually, I think maybe Michael Phelps one time.

[Host]

That's pretty big.

[Alex]

Yeah, because like in MGM national harbor, he's from like Maryland, and I might have played with him one time and then like. Yeah, that's really it.

[Host]

I love poker because it brings people together. People you would have never talked to.

[Alex]

Oh, yeah, yeah. And actually, I forgot, I. I didn't play with him, but I saw Mr. Beast at the Wind. Oh, that's playing. He was playing with like his whole crew at the Win, bro.

[Host]

His style is crazy. Yeah, he goes all in every two hands.

[Alex]

Oh, yeah, like you're talking about his play at like the Hustler?

[Guest]

Yeah.

[Host]

Have you played on the Hustler?

[Alex]

Not yet, no.

[Guest]

No.

[Host]

Have they invited you or you just don't want to?

[Alex]

I just haven't done it yet and yeah, I'm. I'm. I probably could if I. If I wanted to, but I just haven't yet.

[Host]

Yeah, they've done well at branding players. That's what I mean about bringing back the talk. Because, like, Nick Arabal, like, what's that one guy that got in the cheating scandal, Forget his name. But the Robbie cheated against him.

[Alex]

Oh, yeah. Gary Adelstein. Gary Adelstein.

[Host]

They built him up. Rampage. Mariana. They've done well, right?

[Alex]

Yeah, for sure.

[Host]

Do you like those poker live stream setups?

[Alex]

Yeah, I like them. They're very entertaining. Some players, like, who are more serious at poker, like, they're not playing real poker. They're just going all in all the time and that kind of thing. But then, like, it definitely has real poker as well. So I think there's a mix. But some. Some months it's the wild stuff. In some months maybe it's the more serious stuff. But yeah, I mean, I think any poker stream is really good for poker.

[Host]

So you think Bertucci will be able to come back? Or you think it's too far, Too far gone?

[Alex]

Oh, man, I don't want to get in trouble here.

[Guest]

I've already.

[Host]

Oh, you already made a video on this?

[Alex]

Yeah, well, I mean, I've made a couple of videos about it and. Yeah, I mean, I don't know, we'll see. Apparently he's been playing in Vegas recently. Yeah, but I, I don't know, I don't think he's going to come back in terms of like becoming a big name or something. I think he'll just be like a kind of forgotten, like, oh, look, there he is, you know. But yeah, I don't know, I don't think he'll come back.

[Host]

I think there's, yeah, there's a few things that you can really be permanently canceled over and I think he did one of them. Yeah, there's not many you got to really fuck up these days.

[Alex]

Yeah, that's true.

[Host]

There's a lot of people get canceled and they come back, but that's the one where it's like, I don't know, you know?

[Alex]

Yeah, yeah, he had some crazy stuff going on and definitely didn't come out of that very, very well.

[Host]

So what about Tom Dwan? You think he's going to be able to come back?

[Alex]

Tom Dwan? Yeah, I think he'll come back for sure. Tom Juan, I mean, he's always been huge in poker, obviously since, you know, a young age when was playing Phil Hellmuth and Phil Hellmuth said, oh, I, I'll see you in five years, see where you're at, or 10 years or whatever you said.

[Host]

Legendary moment.

[Alex]

Yeah, I'll see where you're at in 10 years. And 10 years later he's bigger than ever. But yeah, I mean, Tom Juan recently had some sort of mental health scare, I guess. Go on. So hopefully he's good from that. I mean, he was, I think on a plane and had something happen. And then when he landed like in London, he, he was taken to some sort of mental facility. This is, I think how I remember and see it. And he was trying to text his friends and that kind of thing on Twitter to help him out, but hopefully he's good from that now. I mean, mental health is serious and that kind of thing, but I think he'll definitely come back. And Tom Juan is a legend of poker and he'll be back.

[Host]

Yeah. Sending good energy your way, Tom, if you see this. Yeah, I think the mental health of a poker player is a very fascinating topic. Yeah, it's such an up and down lifestyle. Right?

[Alex]

Yeah. I mean, I was thinking like, what do you consider the highest, like stress level careers, right. Ever? Maybe poker player could be one of them. You know, they say like a plane, someone who directs traffic with air traffic. Controller, they say that's like one of them. But you know, where do you put poker player at? Like a, as a career or a professional gambler? Like betting and losing thousands, tens of thousands of every day, like could be pretty harsh on someone's mental.

[Host]

I would put it up there just of the fact of the swings.

[Guest]

Yeah.

[Host]

Because obviously you have some really high moments, but then you could lose all your money in one night.

[Guest]

Yes.

[Host]

So the swing of that, most people cannot take that I think for sure.

[Alex]

And I think this is even why they have like mental game coaches, like how to, how to handle like a big loss. Like this kind of thing. They had this kind of thing for poker.

[Host]

Oh really?

[Guest]

Yeah.

[Alex]

Even I mean it's more of a thing that high level players play like super high level, you know, 100k buy ins and this kind of thing and you go on a millions and millions of dollars downswing. How do you handle it? But, but yeah, it's, it can be taxing.

[Host]

Have you ever had a nasty downswing where you were questioning your, your lifestyle?

[Alex]

Yeah, for sure. I mean had a big downswing and just it really mainly happens in tournaments and it's like why am I playing tournaments like I talked about earlier, like why am I should just stop playing tournaments and wouldn't play cash and I'll not have this. Such a crazy downswing. But yeah, I've had it and I mean, I guess I'm not yet at the level where it's been too. Too bad.

[Host]

So yeah, I can see with tournaments because you're putting in hours into each one and then you get nothing.

[Alex]

Exactly.

[Host]

That just compiles up or even if.

[Alex]

You get far and you get like 10th place. But you were in for like 5 buy ins. Like okay, you broke even or you still lost a little bit of money.

[Host]

Spent three days on it.

[Guest]

Yeah.

[Alex]

And it's like was that worth it? Well, if you got first, yes. But you got 10. So.

[Host]

Yeah, that's why the main event, I mean it's a stamina contest too, right?

[Alex]

Yeah, that's something. Phil Home Youth I just saw is even trying to like change because he thinks it's like too much of a stamina contest.

[Host]

10 days is a lot.

[Alex]

Yeah, it's like so many days in a row. He wants it to where there's like one day that's a break. I think maybe after like three or four days he wants like a one day break because he doesn't see it as something that, you know, like a older person, like 60 plus years old could really handle.

[Host]

So it's a valid point because all the previous winners have been relatively young, right?

[Alex]

Yeah, I think so.

[Guest]

Yeah.

[Host]

From what I've seen, at least. So maybe he could get that through. What do you think about that?

[Alex]

Yeah, I mean, it's funny because I was just watching Interview by Chance and Helmut. I think they just had it, like, a day ago, so. Shout out Chance for his podcast. But Helmet was saying, like, you know, you can't. You have. He was trying to get this changed. He, like, put it out there as. He actually said, I'm not going to play the main event if this doesn't happen. And everyone was like, yeah, okay, we don't believe you. And I don't. I think he went back on it and said he put out. He put out a poll and something about the poll. But yeah, that's another thing about Hellmuth. But anyways, so it kind of. It. It's not a thing that. Sorry, I lost my point with Hellmuth.

[Host]

It's not a. Like the rule change with the time. 10 days. Do you think that's too long?

[Alex]

Yeah, I think, like, Hellmuth makes a very valid point about it being too long. But like you were talking about, there hasn't been many young winners recently, but I. I think that's true.

[Guest]

Yeah.

[Host]

Yeah. Well, good luck. Cause you're planning it tomorrow, right?

[Alex]

Either tomorrow or Friday or. What's tomorrow? Friday, either tomorrow or Saturday.

[Guest]

Yeah.

[Host]

How much planning and strategy go in the main event? Are you just going in blind?

[Alex]

No. So, I mean, the years of my past experience have really is what prepared me for the main event, probably. Like, I played it twice, and I think the first year I went in, like, too aggressive. Like, I forb, like, ACE9 off or something versus someone, and they had, like, queens, and it's just, like, not. You shouldn't play aggressive because everyone playing is playing, like, extremely tight.

[Host]

Right.

[Alex]

So, you know, they're gonna have higher value hands than you think, basically. So my plan is to just play tight. And maybe when it gets towards the end of the night or something, and people are more concerned about making day two, that's when you play a bit, you know, more aggressive, smart, you know.

[Guest]

So.

[Host]

Yeah, so 10,000 people only the top 1500 cash, right?

[Alex]

Yeah, I think it's something like that.

[Host]

You got to make it deep. Like day six, day seven, or I think it's maybe.

[Alex]

Yeah, maybe day five, day six.

[Guest]

Yeah.

[Host]

Which is pretty nuts. You could play for four days, 12 hours a day and not make money.

[Guest]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Host]

I mean, that's brutal.

[Alex]

Yeah, that's crazy.

[Host]

And you could be playing amazing, and then you have two bad hands. Yeah, that's why poker is such an interesting game to me. Yeah, you could be playing so well and then lose it all.

[Guest]

Yeah.

[Host]

Of one bad hand.

[Alex]

For sure. For sure.

[Host]

It's an unforgiving game.

[Guest]

Yes.

[Host]

Well, dude, it's been cool. We'll link your YouTube below. Hopefully it's not banned by the time this airs. Anything else you want to close off with?

[Advertiser]

No, really.

[Host]

Thanks for coming on, man. Good luck in the main event. Hope you make a deep run.

[Guest]

Thank you.

[Advertiser]

Check them out, guys, and I'll see you next time.