← Digital Social Hour
Digital Social Hour
Aliia Roza Reveals Her Darkest Stories | DSH #2043
00:53:46
| DSH #2043 How do predators manipulate trust before anyone realizes they are in danger? In this Digital Social Hour episode, Sean Kelly sits down with former intelligence operative Allia Roza to discuss manipulation, trafficking prevention, undercover operations, online grooming, cult tactics, psychological control, and how people can better protect themselves and their families. Allia shares stories from her work targeting criminal networks, including undercover operations where she acted as bait to help identify locations, victims, and suspects. She also explains how predators use status, fake opportunities, urgency, flattery, isolation, and emotional pressure to lower someone’s guard. The conversation expands into the Epstein files, KGB-era psychological techniques, narcissists, online scams, social media, dating apps, fake accounts, cult recruitment, parenting, intuition, and why the safest response to pressure is often to slow down and verify everything. CHAPTERS 0:00 U...
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- [00:00]
A
Sometimes in some operations, I would be the bait. So I would pretend that I would be like one of the girl walking around on the streets trying to be like caught by those predators. I do understand because of the compromising materials Epstein was collecting. But I do believe it's not just him. I believe it's much bigger what we see. Unfortunately, your own colleagues may give up your name and betray you in order to their own benefits.
- [00:33]
B
Okay, guys, got Aaliyah on today. Former Russian sex spy. You've probably seen her on a podcast or two before. She's been on some of the biggest shows. Thanks for coming on.
- [00:41]
A
Thank you so much, Sean, for having me.
- [00:42]
B
Absolutely. What's, what's been the latest for you? What are you working on right now?
- [00:46]
A
Okay, so we're working on the book and as I said, my publicist said go and give interviews about upcoming books. Actually it's related to the topic manipulation. How to protect yourself, especially from criminals due to recent Epstein files. Yeah, people are more kind of like getting awareness about these problems. And when I was serving as a secret agent, I was working in particular in the department fighting human and drug trafficking. So we were the one who were trained how to spot criminals, especially those predators who would kidnap children which are like underage for human trafficking, for sex labor. So I think it's very important to discuss this topic and bring awareness to that particular problem. Because according to United nations, as you know, over 27 million people are trafficked globally.
- [01:49]
B
Wow, that's per year?
- [01:51]
A
It's per year. It's a huge amount. And what I believe if we will bring awareness and teach parents and teenagers, we would explain, explain them how the predators behavior works so in this case they can prevent this tragedy in their lives.
- [02:09]
B
27 million is a lot. So 27 million people are trafficked globally. Are there certain countries that have a lot of that?
- [02:16]
A
Yes, unfortunately, United States are in top of the list. Asian countries as well. I suppose it's because of United States has a big population. And the last year over 100,000 people, especially underage, were trafficked, which is really, really sad. So I do believe that bringing awareness to this problem, speaking about how to spot these predators, how to protect the children, it's very, very, very important. For example, like you know, like if you take like Epstein files mainly right. Like all these ladies, especially in post Soviet countries, Russia, Belarusia, Poland, they were tracked by scouts, like model agency scouts. But unfortunately ladies, I mean younger generation of females, they wouldn't understand and they wouldn't check what is this model agency what is this scout about? So, so first of all, the main important thing based on the secret intelligence agency, the first rule is to gather information. And that's which is like search, do online research, ask maybe some people if they have heard about this. Model agencies check their website, social media, it has to be active, call to the office. Because like when you're like 16, 18 years old and like you're being scouted for model agency, it sounds like a fairy tale, right. And so many women get excited, but in fact they, for like Epstein for example, case, they've been invited to hotel rooms, they've been invited to private houses or like, particularly to a private island where she's just by herself, isolated, with no adults, no parents, no security. And of course that tragedy would happen to me.
- [04:02]
B
Wow. Yeah. I heard hotels, certain hotels are known for trafficking, right?
- [04:06]
A
Yeah. That's why it's so important to like check before you get, get into any engagement, go anywhere first of all, to check, like, what is this situation about? Like, who are those people? Because like, you know, again, like they, they would flush with like all these big names. Oh, this person will be there. Like, you know, at least celebrities will be there. And because of this like big name, sometimes you get lost and you think like, oh, these people will be there, so I'll be totally fine. But it's not, it's a trap.
- [04:35]
B
So they say these celebrities will be there. You get to meet them.
- [04:37]
A
Yeah, that's exactly how.
- [04:39]
B
So their guard is down, right?
- [04:41]
A
Of course, yeah.
- [04:42]
B
And then they get traffic from there to the island.
- [04:45]
A
Yeah. So in our department, what would happen? Of course, like I was born in USSR in 1991, USSR fall. It was sort of like civil war revolution. And all the post Soviet Union countries, they got separated from the main country, Russia. And they had like a really poor economy. So people literally were in such a poverty, they didn't even have food. So what happened? A lot of criminal gangs appeared during that time and they would just literally, you know, kidnap children from the school. So girls would go out, you know, from the school back, like go back to the home and the, you know, trucks. So wherever, like big cars would like just like stop on the street. You guys would go, just grab girls, put them into the car and that's it. So straight away they would put into like private houses, giving very like usually heroin. And then those girls were like lost almost forever. So our work was to infiltrate those criminals, gangs, especially in, in my situation, I was working with the team, first of all to observe, to find out all These houses maybe stand there some. You know, we would call them baits. Sometimes in some operations, I would be the bait. So I would pretend that I would be like one of the girl walking around on the streets, trying to be like, caught by those predators. And eventually when I would be picked up, go to the house, find out how many criminals were there, how many girls were there, what's the condition. And then my team would come and arrest.
- [06:37]
B
You had a tracker on you?
- [06:38]
A
Yes. I mean, that time we would have like a little, you know, like pagers, like, because it was Back to like 20, almost like 22 years old when we didn't have like mobile phones. So, yeah, that's the way we were communicating. But again, like, my team would always check on me in terms of, like, they would literally follow me wherever I would go in, in those cars to this house. This particular. So I was all this, like, I wasn't there by myself.
- [07:08]
B
Yeah. So why were they putting these girls in the houses? How did they make money off that?
- [07:13]
A
Very simple sex labor. So they would be sort of like a, let's say like a whorehouse. Right. And sometimes, like, I do believe, like you've heard or you've seen so many, like in so many countries, the prostitution is legal. And we don't know really how these women ended up living there and how they ended up doing this. Nobody really asked because it's legal. So there would be like different houses with like 10 rooms, separated rooms. In every room would be a girl. Usually they would be drugged, so they wouldn't say or feel anything. But they would be there and every day they would have like at least 10 clients. And that's the way they would make money. Because as you know, the human trafficking is number two profitable business in the world.
- [08:09]
B
Wow. I actually didn't know that. That's crazy.
- [08:11]
A
That's crazy.
- [08:12]
B
Number two.
- [08:12]
A
Yes. After.
- [08:15]
B
Oh, trafficking. Big war. Yeah, Number two. So it's still a big problem.
- [08:19]
A
It is a huge problem. Yes. It's very profitable business. And I think, like, this is the right moment to speak about it and bring awareness to this social issue. Because of files, files. And finally people started to get awareness about that. Like, we didn't really speak about it before.
- [08:37]
B
Yeah.
- [08:37]
A
You know, I love the movie the Sound of Freedom. Have you seen it?
- [08:40]
B
Yeah, I've had on the director on the show.
- [08:42]
A
Oh, my God. Like, I love this movie. And the agent who was there. And it's based on the real story. Right. So when I've seen it first time, I literally told my son like, watch it. It's exactly what I used to do. But, like, you know, setting up the criminal gangs, going to the houses. So, like, pretend like. Right. He was pretending that he was one of the client. And that's the way how you can actually get in.
- [09:05]
B
Right.
- [09:05]
A
So that's what we were doing as well.
- [09:07]
B
Did anything from the file surprise you or you already knew all that was going on for a while?
- [09:12]
A
You know what surprised me the most is that there's so many big names are involved. And I do understand because of the compromising materials, particularly Epstein was collecting. But I do believe it's not just him. I believe it's much bigger what we see.
- [09:32]
B
They didn't release them all.
- [09:34]
A
Well, it's not. Yes. And also, like, the question is here, like, let's be logical. Why? We've heard about this accusation from 2017, right, against Epstein and his suicide at 2019. And we only got all these files now after so many years. Why is it like that?
- [09:55]
B
It's been a long time.
- [09:56]
A
Very long time.
- [09:57]
B
They could have edited them. They could have deleted some.
- [09:59]
A
Yeah. Or perhaps they're hiding something. So, you know, whoever decided to release these files, they wanted to release for what? To distract society or to cover something else up.
- [10:11]
B
Yeah.
- [10:12]
A
You know, so that's what, you know, your audience supposed to go check online, gather information, do their own research, and have their own opinion.
- [10:20]
B
I think it was shocking for most people because we're so oblivious to this kind of stuff in America. We think we're in the best country. So we don't think trafficking's happening, but it's happening in every neighborhood. Right.
- [10:30]
A
Well, you know, I had actually, two years ago, a very sad situation which happened to me, really. So I was in San Diego for Comic Con, and it's a huge conference over, like, what, 5,000 people?
- [10:46]
B
I think even more. Yeah, even more.
- [10:47]
A
Right? It's huge. Right. So I stayed in the hotel nearby, and at 6pm I had a meeting with the publisher. So I'm really looking for creating a graphic novel based on my story in particular to educate young generation, because that's exactly the niche. So I had this meeting with a publisher at 6pm So I go downstairs to the reception. I see the Uber. Ubers are all busy. It's a, you know, rush hour. So I asked reception, do you have any taxis? Like, you know, you should, like, work with the hotel. So they said yes. There are, like, so many cars outside. You can just pick up any car. And they're like, you know, we work with them. They're freelancers. So I got this driver like of the big black truck. The escalator.
- [11:37]
B
Yeah.
- [11:38]
A
So the talk, I explained where I need to go. I show the address. He obviously doesn't speak very well English, I suppose he is Mexican. So I get into the car in the backseat and the meeting was like about 10, 15 minutes away from the hotel. The moment I sat to the car, he blocked all the doors, which is like, okay, this is number one, red flag. He locked the door and he drove so fast on high speed. And when we were turning to the freeway, I understood that this is really bad. So whatever I was telling him, he couldn't understand. He pretended he didn't understand. So he was driving very fast. So that moment I understood that like I was literally like kidnapped. And where were we going? To Mexico, because it's on the border. And at the same moment I understood that imagine how many girls you know would be traffic like that. From particular from that hotel where I was saying. And the hotel wasn't like three stars or whatever, it was five stars, good hotel. So you see, they work all together and that's the problem. So the probably set up all these young females, you know, pick them up from like, I don't know, bars, restaurants at the evening time. My time was like what, 6pm it wasn't that late. Yeah, but yet they decided to kidnapped me. So it's happening everywhere.
- [13:08]
B
That's crazy. How did you get out of that one?
- [13:10]
A
I mean, you know how.
- [13:13]
B
No, I really don't.
- [13:14]
A
Well, you know what I always tell to my. I have a members club of females. And I always tell them, you know, God forbid something happens like that. First of all, you have to be aware that this can happen to anyone. And you can use anything you have in your back. Of course, ideally, if you can always carry with you maybe like on a keychain, the pepper spray. That's the ideal thing. If you don't have that with you. Okay, no problem. Use anything you have. You have heels, great, get the heel, like stab it into the head, eyeball, whatever, whatever will save you. It's good. If you have a credit card, you can simply use it. Like if you will put very, very close like in your wrist. And it, it can be used as a knife as well. Really? Yes, like, I mean like not particular knife because it's not that. But still it can help you in this situation. If you have a perfume with you. Also very good to use for the eyeballs. So whatever you have in the car, use it. But the most important thing that do not get into the psychological condition as freeze. So we have three psychological conditions when we have like stress, which is run, fight, freeze. And unfortunately, when something happens to us females, especially when they are in this situation when they're supposed to be, for example, they freeze. Right. And this happened to me when I was 18 years old. And that's the most important rule is to actually fight back. You have to protect yourself. And that's the most important as more, you know, as more you can protect yourself. So we say learn more. And that's the way how you can like, you know, arm yourself. So fight back, believe that you will win. This is number one. And just help yourself.
- [15:15]
B
Yeah, I got in an Uber once. I fell asleep, which you. You should probably never do that, right?
- [15:21]
A
Yeah.
- [15:21]
B
And then I woke up in a parking lot.
- [15:23]
A
No way.
- [15:23]
B
Yeah, he was in a. It was a girl driver actually.
- [15:26]
A
What?
- [15:26]
B
Yeah, it was weird. Woke up in a parking lot.
- [15:29]
A
Oh my God. So was she in the car?
- [15:31]
B
Yeah.
- [15:32]
A
Did you, did she steal anything from you?
- [15:34]
B
I don't think so, cuz I fell asleep for like a couple minutes, so it was quick.
- [15:37]
A
So why did she drive you to the parking lot?
- [15:40]
B
No, I did.
- [15:40]
A
Did you ask her?
- [15:41]
B
I was like, where are we?
- [15:42]
A
Yeah.
- [15:43]
B
And she didn't. She pretended not to speak English. Like you're driving. That's what they do.
- [15:48]
A
So probably like she was waiting for someone to come and.
- [15:51]
B
Yeah, either that or she was. I think you get more money if you stall, so I don't know if she's doing that, but I know a lot of women are scared of Uber though.
- [16:01]
A
Yes.
- [16:01]
B
Right?
- [16:02]
A
Yeah. They have like all these billboards in la, in Los Angeles. If you have seen it basically said like, be careful. Like Uber drivers. There's so many. Sex assault. Yes. I mean, Uber drivers are okay in terms of, you know, if you do protect yourself. First of all, check the, you know, the, the passenger door. The passenger door, which is like the, the locker. If it's. If the lock is down. Right. The moment you close the door, it's like the child protection. So check that if you can. I mean, that's smart. That's smart. Yes. Like always check on the driver, check the route where you're going, you know, be cautious.
- [16:41]
B
So you could share your route with other people too.
- [16:43]
A
Yes, absolutely.
- [16:44]
B
I also have the window breaker on my keychain.
- [16:47]
A
Yes.
- [16:47]
B
Have you seen that? You could break the window.
- [16:49]
A
Oh, that's really good. So that's another thing which can help. Yes, absolutely.
- [16:53]
B
Well, I got locked in my car once, so I. I bought that.
- [16:56]
A
Yeah, that's. That's a really good tool. Yeah, it would be great to, for everyone to get it and just to have it. So on another case also, like, as an another bad example, my son who is 16 years old. Right. So they were celebrating Halloween in Beverly Hills house at one of his like friends.
- [17:13]
B
Yeah.
- [17:14]
A
You know, like teenagers party Halloween. So they had like a lot of kids there. I dropped them off and it was about like 7pm I went for a dinner nearby. So luckily I was nearby. And literally in like 30 minutes he calls me crying. He's like, mom, like two girls, like his classmates, we were all standing outside, whatever they were doing, like talking or something. And then the, the car like the truck like stopped by and there were so many keys. So the two guys sitting there started to talk to two girls and one of the guy went outside and like literally walked girls inside to the car and like they left. And of course. So what can you really say to these girls that they like, silly? Of course not. Because like again, you know, you're teenager, you want to be cool and all that. So they didn't understand, they didn't realize. So he called me because obviously he knows my former profession. He's like, mom, what can we do? Like what to do? Like. And they tried to call the parents, but unfortunately parents were not available or like they didn't pick up the phone or you know, it was like when you as a parent send your kids to your friends, you feel like they are safe there. Right? There are some adults and it's supposed to be okay, but. But these kids were outside of the house, like on the street. So some of them were inside, some of them outside. So this happened with these two girls. So again, luckily these girls had a Snapchat location. So I came to pick up my son and also like another of his friend. And we drove to like follow this car and again, thank God it was the right time. So I learned the extreme driving. So I'm pretty good driver. So I drive really fast when it's needed. So the moment they stop and it was already in the Sherman Oaks, like when we got there. So they were stopping on the traffic lights. I went in front of the car and literally I went outside like I'm one of the mom. I called the police. Police is coming right now. So. So they didn't have anything but like they were just like, okay, we're revealing these girls. But there were like two like 40ish years old guys. Like what they supposed to do with like 15 years old, two girls and
- [19:42]
B
where they were going, that's crazy.
- [19:43]
A
And that's happening like this is happened in Los Angeles, in Beverly Hills.
- [19:49]
B
So moral of the story is have your location on.
- [19:51]
A
Right. Always have your location on with parents, with your friends as well. If teenagers they see any suspicious behavior, please report to adults, to authorities. You always need to take care about your friends and see what's happening just around you. It's very important.
- [20:11]
B
I'd imagine the more intelligent kidnappers are having them get rid of their phones these days, right?
- [20:17]
A
Yeah, but yes, of course. But thank God, like they didn't straight away so. Because they were still in the car and it was like the. Maybe like 20, 30 minutes drive. But they would, I suppose if they would bring them somewhere, they would probably. Yeah. Throughout the telephone send.
- [20:33]
B
So you're still working even out here.
- [20:34]
A
I mean, you know what? Like it's, it's crazy. Yes. It's like it's the mission of my life and you know, it's just sort of like my DNA. And now because of like I'm speaking about it and I'm going and I'm doing public speaking and bringing awareness to that. We actually setting up a, A, a charity foundation to bring awareness to this social issue like human trafficking particular. And we are right now building a campus in Hawaii in the state of Hawaii to raise orphan kids there and also victims of human trafficking.
- [21:15]
B
Hawaii, huh?
- [21:16]
A
Yeah. So we starting, we're starting from that state first but hopefully we will go global.
- [21:22]
B
Yeah.
- [21:22]
A
And we're also partnering with one Italian charity foundation who also helping you know how many immigrants children are in like Europe without parents and they're like 14, 15, 16 years old and they're absolutely lonely and like what future they can have, like nothing really. And so they are the future criminals. So it's so important to give them education sorrowful like brotherhood, sisterhood, where they don't feel absolutely by themselves giving them future job. You know, everything is about education.
- [21:58]
B
Yeah, yeah. Because with these criminals a lot of them get into that because of their trauma, right?
- [22:01]
A
Of course trauma. Because you see again like, like if they're coming back to Russia like that days when I was working there, it was similar situation in Russia at the time because there's so many orphanage orphan kids, kids who lost their parents due to so many like revolution, war or like they simply lost their parents because of the alcohol or drug consumption. Those kids were left by themselves. So what criminals leaders would do, they would bring these children this like 14, 15 years old boys to some Houses or gym facilities, train them, giving them roof, food, education and martial arts. But they would create the soldiers. So these kids felt that they belong to this group, to this brotherhood. It became like a cult. And they would follow every order of the criminal leader and hence the criminal gang would become bigger and bigger.
- [23:14]
B
Yeah.
- [23:14]
A
So this is also sort of manipulation.
- [23:17]
B
How big were some of those gangs out there?
- [23:19]
A
Huge.
- [23:19]
B
Like hundreds or huge.
- [23:21]
A
Like I would say this, that time in 90s and 2000, if you would belong to criminal group, like you made it really?
- [23:32]
B
Yes, it was like, like the mafia out here back in the day. The Italian mafia?
- [23:36]
A
Yes, even bigger than that. So literally criminal groups were in the power because that time when users are full and then, you know, we had like that President Yeltsin and so before Putin became a president and then he kind of like, which is good for Russia that time he cleaned everything up. Criminals group were terminated. But before that, it was really difficult, dangerous time. You would go outside on the street and criminals would literally shoot each other or. Yeah, in a movie you would go to the grocery store and you would see some people shooting each other or some cars from the car, like in the movie. But that's what really happened. It was absolutely dangerous to be outside. People were scared. And young generation, they didn't have any other choice. They had to belong to criminal groups in order to survive.
- [24:40]
B
No wonder there's so many alcoholics out there. So traumatic growing up in that environment. Right.
- [24:44]
A
It was, it was, it was really, really sad because Russia still like is, you know, quite. I mean, I would say they have a lot of resources, but because of this tragic history over that time, they just simply don't have power enough, you know, to protect the. The people, civilians.
- [25:07]
B
So Putin's pretty ruthless, it sounds like.
- [25:10]
A
Well, I would say cutthroat. He's quite as a politician, in my opinion. He did well for country, for Russia particular, because again, fighting those criminal groups, it was tough and he did it. So right now, as I know, there are not so many criminal groups. I mean, like, they probably don't even exist. So default them all. All the criminals leaders are dead.
- [25:40]
B
Really?
- [25:41]
A
Yeah.
- [25:41]
B
So he sent them to get killed?
- [25:43]
A
Well, eventually, yes, but it took some time. So in this case, yes, he is very powerful, very intelligent, smart. As a former KGB agent.
- [25:52]
B
Yeah.
- [25:53]
A
But he really cleaned up the country from all the criminal groups. Yes.
- [25:57]
B
I didn't know he was former KGB agent.
- [25:59]
A
Yes, he was.
- [25:59]
B
Was that the group you were part of?
- [26:02]
A
I wasn't. He actually was the KGB agent of the svr so it's intelligent secret agency which works outside, which is like abroad.
- [26:15]
B
Outside the CIA of America.
- [26:17]
A
Yes. And at some point he also worked in Germany. And then when he return returned to Russia, he eventually was, you know, like a right hand of the mayor of the city, St. Petersburg. And then eventually he became a politician and eventually he became a president.
- [26:37]
B
So he worked his way up the ladder.
- [26:38]
A
He did, yes, he did.
- [26:40]
B
When you were doing your work, it was just in Russia, right?
- [26:42]
A
Yes.
- [26:42]
B
You weren't leaving the country?
- [26:44]
A
No, I moved though, to Europe. Like after the Russian meet the last Russian mission, I moved to Europe.
- [26:51]
B
Yeah, that mission was a crazy one.
- [26:53]
A
Yeah, I mean, it was.
- [26:55]
B
Your life was on the line there.
- [26:57]
A
Oh, I mean, you never know.
- [27:00]
B
Yeah, I saw you talk about that one on a few other shows.
- [27:03]
A
Thank you.
- [27:04]
B
Yeah, that must, was that you must have been questioning what you were doing at that point. Right? You must have been like, is this it?
- [27:10]
A
You know, Sean, the thing is, when you work there and you know your mission, which is protecting innocent people especially, okay, imagine you've seen so many underage kids being killed, overdosed. And when you see this, it's not like just like you carry this pain. It's a pain of the whole country. It's the pain of all these people. And you're okay to sacrifice your body if it will help some kids, to rescue them. You're okay to sacrifice your life for that, for those lives, because they like sacrificing your body, sacrificing your life. If you know that you can rescue those underage children in a big amount of. Right. You know that you can do it, of course you will go and do it.
- [27:59]
B
Okay, so you already accepted death as a possibility at that point,
- [28:03]
A
I would say, I think this. That's what I analyzed after so many years. When I started in the academy, in the military academy, we had this special class where we were sort of, I would say, programmed. You know, you can program your brain, right. And we would program not to have any fears. For example, when soldiers go to the war, they're programmed sort of, let's call it. Or like there is a strong ideology that the goal to fight for their country, for their families, for they kids, mothers, beloved ones. Right. So you don't really feel fear or you kind of like feel fear. But in Russia they would say, if you die at the battle, you're a real hero.
- [28:56]
B
Honor.
- [28:57]
A
Yeah, you know, it's an honor because you die, you know, for your duty.
- [29:02]
B
For the Kandry.
- [29:03]
A
Yes. For like for your family. What can be you know better than that, sort of. So it was exactly the same thing where you would go and do this. Especially after like seeing so many crime outside on the streets, you would do it for good.
- [29:19]
B
Yeah.
- [29:19]
A
Also like I have my little sister, so I wanted also to protect her so she won't get into this criminal gang, so she wouldn't kidnapped.
- [29:29]
B
So before that brain training, did you have any fears at all?
- [29:32]
A
Well, of course they do. I'm human being. At the same time, I would say I was trained from early age. My father was a high ranking officer. He served to the military for like almost like 40 years. And my grandfather fought Nazi during second war and he got a medal of the hero of the country. This is my family heritage. This is supposed to be my, my path for my life. And my father educated me since like I was really, you know, a little girl with everything that like martial arts, psychological techniques, resilience, believing in patriotism, believing in people, love to the country. As he really like a pure patriot, you know, he loves his country, but it's, you know, one thing loving people, another thing loving the government, it's completely different things.
- [30:41]
B
Right.
- [30:42]
A
And I spoke with one of my person I know, the former MI6 agent, and we talk about that as well. And he said exactly the same like my father says, used to say that.
- [30:58]
B
And my six is no joke.
- [30:59]
A
Yeah. Yes, same thing. I was doing this for my people and for people in general. I wasn't doing this particular for my government. I, I understand that I can help somehow and I'm ready to help to stop terrorist attacks, to stop crime, whatever I can do. Because I'm trained, I'm a soldier, I know that I can do something for people. And that's why you go and do it.
- [31:28]
B
So you put the people before the government. Yeah, that's interesting.
- [31:35]
A
I would say this. I put even. And now that's why, you know, I want to do more charitable work and bring awareness to this global issue like human trafficking and drug trafficking as well. Love to people, this is your passion, that's what guides you. Because there's so many innocent people like these children, they are so vulnerable. And you just simply understand that if you understand so many things and how the life is, you can help them in some way. I give also some lectures to younger generation. So they can also protect themselves if God forbid, something happens to them.
- [32:20]
B
Right? Yeah. I'm very fascinated. You're saying love is this important because with agents they kind of teach you not to be emotional, right?
- [32:28]
A
Yes. But this is like, yeah, you Cannot be emotional in your mission. For example, let's imagine you go and infiltrate a criminal leader, right. A criminal gang. And you need to get in touch and build trust. Seduce the criminal leader. That was one of my tasks. How can you establish emotional bond with the criminal and you know that he is responsible for so many deaths?
- [33:00]
B
Yeah. So you gotta fake it.
- [33:02]
A
You have to. It's almost like acting. Say you have this perfect legend, and we've taught how to build this legend. And you put this role and you live with it. With this role, like on everyday basis, you literally become someone else.
- [33:21]
B
Yeah. You have to, right?
- [33:22]
A
Yeah.
- [33:23]
B
Until they find out.
- [33:25]
A
Well, maybe they would. Okay, so those criminals, in my last mission, they would never find out. Everything was actually perfect and my team worked out till the end. So eventually Vladimir, my target, supposed to die, but what happened? The colonel, my commander, wanted to have black cash coming out. So he wanted to be like, to have a. A corruption case, like get some money from these criminal activities. And he wanted to cover this criminal gang. I would say that time in Russia, it was quite common thing. You know, you operate and do all these criminal activities, but you have government people covering you and supporting you. So you continue with your, you know, activity.
- [34:29]
B
Got it. So he believed.
- [34:31]
A
Yeah. So that was the setup, which we didn't know. I didn't know that time. My team didn't know about that. So he actually gave up my name. And this happens. I know a lot of other cases and in modern days even.
- [34:49]
B
Wow.
- [34:50]
A
Yes. Unfortunately, your own colleagues may give up your name and betray you in order to their own benefits.
- [35:00]
B
I could see why you put people of a government on.
- [35:02]
A
Yeah.
- [35:03]
B
Betrayed.
- [35:03]
A
Yeah.
- [35:04]
B
By your own government.
- [35:05]
A
Yeah. I mean, again, depends. I used to know so many great, you know, really patriotic commanders. Not all of them, but like some people I used to work with. For example, my colleague that time, she was an active agent and she was working on stopping human trafficking abroad. So their time was a lot of advertisement. And that's again coming back to Epstein files. So there would be advertisement not like in social media right now, but like in newspapers. We are looking for females from like 18 to like 25 years old for a job in Greece, in Arabic countries, Turkey, Egypt, whatever. Like different countries. And the salary would be like very high. And for like to be a waitress or to be all like for the model agencies. So there were so many advertisements like that, so many girls. Obviously they didn't know the moment. They would meet with the scout, with meet with the manager. And usually it would be a nice Looking female.
- [36:25]
B
Yeah.
- [36:25]
A
So again, woman to woman, it's kind of like already a trust. Once they would be there, the passports were taken away again. That time there were no telephone mobiles, so they were completely isolated from anyone. And then they would be transport to Greece, Albania, Afghanistan, and then they would be sold everywhere.
- [36:52]
B
Wow.
- [36:53]
A
So there were like thousands of young females trafficked like that. So my colleague that time, she was the, the commander of all this operation and again, like because she knew so much, suddenly she passed away.
- [37:14]
B
Wow.
- [37:15]
A
So she's supposed to give an interview to the podcast To Die for which we were doing that time in 2022 with Neil Strauss.
- [37:23]
B
Yeah.
- [37:24]
A
We spoke on the phone and when also Ukraine war started, she was completely against of all the situation and she wanted to move out from Russia. The time she lived in Moscow, she was 55 years old. She agreed to give an interview. We spoke right on the phone in two weeks. We set up an interview. I call her, she doesn't pick up the phone. And then her nephew tells me that, well, she passed away, like just out of blue like that. So again, you never know what really happened. I wasn't there, I don't know. But she, as much as I knew, she was healthy, she was 55, she was an active agent and she knew a lot.
- [38:08]
B
Oh, she was still active.
- [38:09]
A
Yeah.
- [38:10]
B
Yeah. They don't like people speaking out. Right.
- [38:13]
A
Well, if you are active and you know too much and you have a lot of classifier and you know a lot of classified information and you have some compromising material they would probably, you know, clean up.
- [38:27]
B
Yeah. Government wants to protect that information from getting leaked. That's sad. Holy crap, that's scary. How old were you when you left Russia?
- [38:37]
A
I was 24.
- [38:40]
B
I was pretty young.
- [38:41]
A
Yeah.
- [38:42]
B
So you left a while ago?
- [38:43]
A
I was, yeah. And I, I moved to Greece first. Switzerland, Italy, France, uk, London. And I moved here.
- [38:53]
B
And you like it here the most?
- [38:55]
A
I would say this. I love United States for many reasons. It is really a democracy here, but yet there's so many things I see and analyze and unfortunately people I guessing divided and one of the rule of the power, divide and control. So again, people need to realize that because this is part of manipulation. Because manipulation is everywhere in social media, news, any content you consume, everything. So I just want people to realize that and unite rather than be divided.
- [39:41]
B
Yeah, yeah. It feels very divided here. I don't know how other countries are, but worse. Oh, worse. Really? Okay. Yeah. I don't know what to compare it to, but you've lived all over the world so.
- [39:52]
A
Well, some of the smallest countries, let's say Greece, like, Greek people are very united. But again, Greece is a small country. You know, Italian people are quite. It's like a unity. But again, like, it's a small country.
- [40:04]
B
Yeah.
- [40:05]
A
So America is a huge country with over 3,330 million people. And it's very sad to see people divided by the, you know, political religion, culture.
- [40:16]
B
Religion, culture, a lot of different, even sex, smell. Yeah. Race, for sure.
- [40:19]
A
Like that black. Black love matter. I was so shocked.
- [40:22]
B
That was wild times.
- [40:24]
A
Yeah, but like, I mean, why. Come on, we live in 21st century. Like, this is. It doesn't make any sense.
- [40:30]
B
Well, it was orchestrated. Now everyone knows.
- [40:32]
A
Yeah. Like, if you really, like, do DNA tests, I mean, how many different, like, you know, blood nationalities and races do you really have? Like, why don't you do, you know, like the DNA test and see, like, we're all connected.
- [40:44]
B
I had so many. I had over 20, I think, on mine.
- [40:46]
A
Yeah, me too. Like, we all connected. Like, at some point you have like this race and this race and it's. It's totally normal.
- [40:53]
B
Was Russia pretty divided when you were there?
- [40:56]
A
Yes, yes, because when I was born, it was communism. And communism literally killed any belief in God. So you couldn't have any. Not even, like, it was forbidden. So you were not able to go to the church or like to pray to your God.
- [41:20]
B
Couldn't pray?
- [41:21]
A
No.
- [41:21]
B
Holy cr.
- [41:22]
A
No. So Russia is an Orthodox country from, like the beginning. Right. Like from 14th century, it's been like, you know, Orthodox religion, very powerful Russian people really believe in God and they have a lot of churches. So imagine that when Communism, Communist party conquered the whole country, killed the Tsar, which again, it was the kind of like the God provider for people to serve people. They, the Communist Party literally destroyed all churches and they made different, like, buildings. Like, instead of like, biggest church in Moscow, which is the most and the most famous one, they actually destroyed it and built a swimming pool, which is like, ridiculous. That's how they destroyed the belief and God and people. And when people kind of like lost their belief, they were completely vulnerable. And this is also part of manipulation. That's how the government that time manipulated people.
- [42:34]
B
Do you think communism and socialism is coming to America?
- [42:38]
A
Well, I hope. No. I mean, there are a lot of people who are promoting the vogue culture, which is very sad. I hope it. I hope people here are very smart and they can see this through. And I hope they.
- [42:53]
B
I don't have much faith in that statement.
- [42:54]
A
Well, I want to believe and that's why you're doing your podcast, right?
- [42:58]
B
Yeah, but this is a. Yeah. Try to reach as many people as possible. But we're talking the average person in America. Are they smart enough to know that you know what I mean?
- [43:07]
A
Do you ask me?
- [43:08]
B
Yeah. I don't know.
- [43:09]
A
Like, I'm not American. I don't know.
- [43:12]
B
I personally don't have much faith because I grew up in the education system here. It's awful. You're just programmed.
- [43:17]
A
I know my son goes to the school. I. I can see this.
- [43:19]
B
Yeah. So you probably know a little bit. It's. It's terrible. They're not learning anything.
- [43:23]
A
They don't. That's why, as a parent, it's your responsibility to teach your children. I know a lot of families who actually don't want them children to go to public schools.
- [43:32]
B
Yeah.
- [43:33]
A
And they have, like, online, like, home education. Maybe it would be the right option for children. I don't know.
- [43:40]
B
Yeah.
- [43:41]
A
Again, you are a. The, you know, you are the younger generation, your audience. This young generation.
- [43:49]
B
Millennial.
- [43:50]
A
Yeah. So it's so important what you do in terms of, like, bringing awareness, educating this young generation, because they need to be smart to see all this manipulation around them and make their own. Yeah. Opinion.
- [44:03]
B
Yeah. There's so much manipulation from every angle. You know what I mean?
- [44:06]
A
Yes.
- [44:07]
B
I feel like every day you're dealing with a new type of manipulation.
- [44:09]
A
Yeah. Not just like in romantic or business relationships. It's everywhere.
- [44:13]
B
Yeah. Even the. What you're reading online is a manipulation.
- [44:16]
A
It is, it is. So that's why it's very. If don't, like, make assumptions straight away from everything you see, watch or read, like, go into your own research. And it's good that we have ChatGPT, right.
- [44:30]
B
Yeah.
- [44:30]
A
So we can kind of like check facts. So facts, they don't lie. So check is manipulated.
- [44:36]
B
Well, even chatgpt, some of that's manipulated. So you gotta. You gotta prompt it correctly.
- [44:41]
A
Yeah. So like, different sources, like, check different sources.
- [44:44]
B
Yeah. When was the last time you were manipulated?
- [44:48]
A
Ah, good question. Oh, my God. You know what? I would say I'm pretty good at that. I can see the manipulation. Thank God. But. But again, like, I was trained, when I was younger, I was manipulated. Really. But now I would say some people, they do try to do this, and I can see it. But, you know, the biggest important understanding should be take your time. Just take your time to do your own research, analyze everything, sleep on with this, you know?
- [45:26]
B
Yeah.
- [45:27]
A
Kind of like understanding and make decision after.
- [45:30]
B
Right.
- [45:30]
A
So when Somebody rushes you and say to you, do it now. Or like it's favorite thing. Like the. There is a sales like techniques. Right. Like buy it now or like in 10 minutes.
- [45:44]
B
Yeah.
- [45:44]
A
You'll lose the.
- [45:45]
B
There's a word for that. I know what you're talking about. Yeah. Like NLP Friday. Yeah. Neural. Neuralistic programming. Yeah, Something like that. They use these tactics to make you.
- [45:54]
A
Yeah. Make decision right now. And that's why you need to take your time, analyze thing and then make your own decision. Not like influenced by any.
- [46:07]
B
Yeah.
- [46:07]
A
Other.
- [46:07]
B
I agree, that's great advice because I used to get rushed to sign contracts all the time and.
- [46:11]
A
Yeah, me too. Yeah, all the time.
- [46:12]
B
I love doing that con. Especially with contracts. They're like, oh, you need to sign this by Monday or the deal's off.
- [46:17]
A
Yeah.
- [46:18]
B
I don't listen to that.
- [46:19]
A
Yeah. Or you need to like buy now or the deal is off.
- [46:22]
B
Yeah.
- [46:22]
A
So yeah, again, nothing like you just take your time.
- [46:25]
B
Yeah, yeah, take your time. Don't feel rushed. You also have a. Your own show, right?
- [46:31]
A
I do. I actually, you know, like when to Die for was out and it was so popular and I had received so many messages from around the world from women saying that, oh, you mentioned this technique or you mentioned that technique. Where can we learn it? So I realized that a lot what I said in the podcast was about my life and my, you know, story and how did I, you know, end up being a secret agent. But I wanted to share to people how actually these techniques work because I realized that the KGB program back that time when actually the whole program was set up, it's quite powerful. I don't know how it is right now, but before it was one of the most powerful agencies in the world. Right. So there's so many important psychological techniques which people can learn in order to protect themselves again from manipulation from criminals, from narcissists, from manipulators, psychopaths. It's just important to know as much as you can. So you can see through manipulation.
- [47:50]
B
Yeah. Because now the access to people so easy with social media.
- [47:53]
A
Yeah.
- [47:54]
B
So you really need. Yeah, it's good and bad, but like you need to learn how to protect yourself basically, Right?
- [47:59]
A
Yes.
- [47:59]
B
Because social media, I heard they're using that to get victims now. Snapchat and.
- [48:04]
A
Yeah. Dating apps, video games, even video games, Everything, everything. And there's so many also online cults. You have to be really careful. And for parents, it's also very important to check the kids social media, with whom do they interact.
- [48:20]
B
So you check your Kids, social media.
- [48:22]
A
I do. I check my son's phone all the time.
- [48:25]
B
Really? And he allows that.
- [48:26]
A
He doesn't know.
- [48:26]
B
Oh, okay, well, now he does.
- [48:29]
A
Maybe he. I hope he won't. But the thing is, it's very important as a parent, you need to check with whom they do speak. Because another story of very close friend of mine, she's a single mom and her son is 16 years old and recently he engaged into this forum of this very weird cult and they make him to do things which are very weird. Like changing gender. What even. Yes, so exactly. So this is brainwashing. So that's why it's so important to check what your children do, especially online, what content do they consume, with whom do they speak?
- [49:16]
B
I know some parents, this might be a little extreme, but they hooked up their text messages to their kids phone. So anytime their kid gets a text, they see the message.
- [49:23]
A
Yeah, but what about Snapchats? What about.
- [49:26]
B
Yeah, you can't do that with Snapchat.
- [49:27]
A
Discord.
- [49:29]
B
No, you can't do that.
- [49:30]
A
See, so you need to really like check everything. What other like, forums as well?
- [49:36]
B
Yeah. Instagram even.
- [49:37]
A
Yeah. You know, like there's so many fake accounts. It would be teenager, boy or girl, but in fact behind this account would be like old.
- [49:48]
B
Yeah.
- [49:49]
A
Crazy psychopathic men.
- [49:52]
B
Yeah. They pretend to be their age.
- [49:54]
A
Yeah. And again, like they engage into this conversation, give compliments, give support, this moral support, which teenager doesn't feel at home because it's teenage years, purity and all that. And God forbid they may engage into physical meeting. And then again, you don't know what may happen.
- [50:16]
B
Yeah. Did you teach your kid how to read people better too?
- [50:21]
A
My son is pretty, pretty good at that. So there was like a recent situation. So he came to me and he said like, this is what happened between my friends. And as your son, I could see a manipulation. So I like realized what happened. It's great. And that's my. Again, like you're doing what you're doing right now with your podcast, educating young generation. It's very important just like to speak about it, to like, because they will hear some techniques from you, dance from someone else, and then like eventually they will make up their mind.
- [50:55]
B
Have you noticed women are better at reading people than the men or.
- [50:58]
A
No, I wouldn't say so.
- [50:59]
B
Okay. No, because I think they have good intuition.
- [51:02]
A
Well, intuition is number one, of course. You always have to trust your gut. And I would say like when we meet someone first, 3, 5 seconds before a person would even start to speak, we analyze everything Right. Our brain spot. Like, what's your posture, how you behave, how you carry yourself, what's your energy? What are you all about? And then we say the way you dress, everything does make sense. This is very important. So that first few seconds, ask your heart, your gut, basically, do I trust this person? Do I feel good? Because this is very. The most trust, like, worthy opinion which your body can give. Because we all kind of like interact with each other through energy level. And then sometimes our brain would say, oh, no, it's okay. This person is so amazing and kind. And this and this.
- [52:00]
B
That's the logical thing, right?
- [52:02]
A
Yes. So listen to your gut, listen to your heart first.
- [52:05]
B
They say the gut's the second brain.
- [52:07]
A
Yeah, they do. But again, like, I mean, our brain, sometimes. Our brain is so sometimes manipulated by the society. We have to be polite. We have to say this, we have to be. We have to behave this way again because of, like, traditions, background, you know, society we live in. Right. So our brain cannot really be even honest to you because it analyzes according to that information which we learned before.
- [52:36]
B
That's crazy.
- [52:37]
A
My parents would behave like this. So I have to do it. But, like, inside of you, like, I don't like this guy. Like, something is wrong, something is off. But because, like, I've. I was taught to be a nice, polite girl, I would do that. And then eventually something bad may happen.
- [52:54]
B
So your brain is wrong?
- [52:55]
A
Not always, but yes. When you meet someone new, ask your God first.
- [53:01]
B
Great advice.
- [53:02]
A
Yeah.
- [53:03]
B
Well, where can people find your show, find your books coming out this year? Right?
- [53:06]
A
Yes. And it will be exactly about the. How to protect yourself from manipulation everywhere. Like, I'm on Instagram. Alia Rosa, the website Alia Rosa. So, yeah, so that's my main mission, to educate people in order to protect themselves. This is the main message.
- [53:25]
B
Thank you for doing that. You're saving.
- [53:27]
A
Thank you, Sean.
- [53:27]
B
Thank you.
- [53:28]
A
Thank you for having me.
- [53:28]
B
Check her out, guys. I'll see you next time. Thanks for staying all the way to the end, guys. It means a lot to me. If you could please leave a review on Apple. That helps us climb the charts, it helps us get way more guests, and it helps us continue growing the podcast and the team. So it would mean a lot to me if you left a review on Apple or wherever else you're listening. Thanks so much.