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Alzheimer’s Starts Decades Before Symptoms... | David Perlmutter | DSH #1888
00:30:01
Alzheimer’s doesn’t start when you forget a name. It can start 20 to 30 years earlier — while you still feel completely fine. In this episode of Digital Social Hour, Dr. David Perlmutter breaks down the real root of brain decline, why Alzheimer’s is deeply connected to metabolism, and what people in their 20s and 30s should be doing right now to protect their future brain health. He explains why the brain’s immune system may be the missing piece, how blood sugar, insulin, sleep, exercise, and inflammation shape your cognitive future, and why waiting until symptoms show up is already too late. This conversation goes way beyond memory loss. It dives into neurogenesis, alcohol, cannabis, AI in medicine, trauma, emotional healing, and why true brain health is connected not just to your biology — but to how you live, connect, and process life itself. If you care about your focus, memory, longevity, or avoiding Alzheimer’s later in life, this episode is a must-watch. ⏱️ Chapters ...
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- [00:00]
Dr. David Perlmutter
As it relates to Alzheimer's, the changes metabolically that presage the development of the cognitive issues begin 20 or 30 years ahead of time. That's why I talk to somebody who's 28 right now and not waiting till somebody is 65 or 70 and comes to me and says, my memory is fading. Because what's going on in your metabolism right now is critical in terms of your brain's fate, your brain's destiny. And you, my friend, are the architect of your brain's destiny, not me as a neurologist.
- [00:35]
Sean
Okay, guys, we're here at a 4M. Dr. David Pearlmutter here today. How did your talk go at the conference?
- [00:39]
Dr. David Perlmutter
It went really well. It was great because the speaker before me was our son.
- [00:45]
Sean
Oh, nice.
- [00:46]
Dr. David Perlmutter
So as he walked off the stage, I gave him a hug. He had to give me the clicker anyway, right. And all I could think about was him when he was maybe one and a half to two years of age, and I was carrying him to his bedroom. And, you know, I don't know why I thought about that at that exact moment. I haven't even told him that yet, but. Wow, that's a while back.
- [01:06]
Sean
Yeah. It must have been a full circle moment for you, right?
- [01:08]
Dr. David Perlmutter
It was great. It was really great. It's such a privilege and honor.
- [01:12]
Sean
Talk to us about the book. New book, Brain Defenders.
- [01:14]
Dr. David Perlmutter
My new book, Brain Harness the power of your immune cells to protect your brain for life. And what it means is that upstream of all of the things that we focus on that go bad in a brain, like amyloid accumulation in Alzheimer's disease. We were just having a conversation in the hallway about this. This is upstream of all of that. And so it really allows us to understand that the first thing that's going bad in a brain to make it go bad are changes in the immune system. And we've got to react to contextualize how we understand the brain's immune system, called the microglial cells. So for the quiz, that would be it. That's gonna be on the quiz. The microglial cells for everybody who's listening.
- [02:00]
Sean
Microglial. Never heard of it.
- [02:01]
Dr. David Perlmutter
Yeah, well, you have now. So these are cells that can be friend or foe. Normally, we think of the immune system as that's the system that's involved to protect us against infection, to help us heal when we've had trauma, et cetera. And it does. But the other side of the coin is that meanwhile, when these things aren't happening, well, they're not just sitting around waiting for the fire. Right. You know what the firemen do when there's no fire is they take care of their fire engine and they fix things. And in a very similar way, our microglial cells exist in a form that's healing the brain. And what happens is we do things that shifts them to becoming the evil twin that then lets them degrade away our neurons, degrade away our synapses. We get things like Alzheimer's and Parkinson's, and it all depends on their metabolism. When their metabolism is good and their mitochondria are working, they stay in what we call the M2 configuration and are loving and supporting and nurturing our neurons and synapses and the blood brain barrier. When they shift to becoming the evil twin, they destroy your brain. And again, it depends on their metabolism. And the empowering part of the whole story and what this book is about is that their metabolism, in other words, what dictates whether they are friend or foe, mirrors your body metabolism. So what did I just say? I said that if you can get your body metabolism on track, your brain's going to be really happy and resistant decline.
- [03:33]
Sean
Wow. So there's a direct connection there.
- [03:35]
Dr. David Perlmutter
You bet. It's your metabolism, how you control your blood sugar, your insulin functionality, your body weight, your lipids, your blood pressure. These are metabolic markers, influences whether your brain's immune system is going to be on your side or geared up to lead to destruction.
- [03:51]
Sean
Interesting.
- [03:52]
Dr. David Perlmutter
And it is scitech magazine. I just made a slide for my talk here. Scitech magazine called this the number one new idea of 2025. So it's right here on your show. It's leading edge.
- [04:06]
Sean
That's exciting. Yeah. I feel like I was blessed with a pretty fast metabolism, but I have noticed it's slow.
- [04:11]
Dr. David Perlmutter
And let me, let me work with that a little bit. It's not a question of fast or slow metabolism. It's deeper than that. And people say, I really want to turn up my metabolism. I want to lose some weight. But it's really about what that cell is doing to process fuel, to create chemicals, to make energy. That's, you know, it's kind of a more a broader understanding what this term metabolism really means. But that said, at the end of the day, it's all about our lifestyle choices. So what we do in Brain Defenders is we want to enhance the Brain Defenders, the. The good function of our immune system by targeting our metabolism, by getting our metabolic house in order, by getting our blood sugar under control, all the things that, that you've had people on your Program have talked about for a long time that here we are at this A4M conference, American Academy of Anti Aging Medicine. Because this is all about metabolism and how it affects the rate at which you age. And you know what is so exciting about where we are in 2025 is that we now know the levers that are pulled to help us age more slowly and protect our brains.
- [05:19]
Sean
Yeah, super exciting. Thanks for publishing. This will include a link in the video. I, I take brain health super serious because I have the Alzheimer's gene from my father.
- [05:27]
Dr. David Perlmutter
You have APOE 4?
- [05:28]
Sean
Yeah, I remember taking that 23andMe test. I believe so. That scared me when I was 18 years old.
- [05:34]
Dr. David Perlmutter
Well, Sean, in, in those days, how old are you now?
- [05:36]
Sean
28.
- [05:37]
Dr. David Perlmutter
Yeah. Okay, so a decade ago in those days, the messaging for people who carried one or two of the Apoe 4 alleles was that, hey, you've got a 5. In your case, carrying one, you have a 5x increased risk of getting Alzheimer's, a disease for which there's no meaningful treatment. And that would scare the heck out of anybody. And it scared you like everybody else who back then did their 23andMe. Now there are, of course, many genetic tests available, but we now know that you can dramatically offset that risk. So that's the empowering part. It's why we're together today. Who knew why we were getting together today? It's to tell you that don't be afraid that you can make changes right now to dramatically offset the risk that you do have. It's not a genetic determinant that you carry. It is a genetic predisposition. You kind of have a risk thing going here, but with exercise and changing of your diet more ketogenic, keeping blood sugar under control, making sure you're getting enough and tight restorative sleep, that this can be dramatically reduced.
- [06:42]
Sean
Yeah. What are the numbers looking like with people getting dementia and Alzheimer's these days?
- [06:47]
Dr. David Perlmutter
They're not looking good. You know, it's 7 million Americans. Those numbers are going to double in the next 25 years. I mean, in America, costing us $330 billion a year right now. That's a lot of money to take care of Alzheimer's disease just in terms of taking care of them. I think a bigger number is the emotional impact it's having on people. And we. How do you quantify that?
- [07:09]
Sean
Right.
- [07:10]
Dr. David Perlmutter
But I've been through it. I mean, I, I've been through it with my dad and it's, it's life changing for all the rest of us. As well. We, we need to talk about that because, you know, families suffer, loved ones suffer, and no one, you know, I guess some people consider that, but that's a very big metric. If in it could ever metricize. I don't know if you can. But as our metabolic health gets worse, as we have higher, higher rates of diabetes, for example, we expect Alzheimer's to continue to climb. You know, in America, even pre diabetes affects a third of Americans. And the worrisome part about that number is that 90% of them don't even know it. Wow. So, you know, that's, so I stand up on the platform here on your show to, to say, hey, let's get some lab work going. Go to your doctor or go to function health or a place where you don't even have to have a doctor order it for you and find out what is not just your fasting blood sugar but your fasting insulin level. Because it's the fasting insulin level that tells you whether you're not on the road to becoming even pre diabetic. That's what you want to look at.
- [08:23]
Sean
90% is crazy.
- [08:24]
Dr. David Perlmutter
Yeah, it is crazy. But you know, we live in a, in a world in western medicine where the messaging is, hey, live your life however you choose. And then when suddenly still taking your
- [08:34]
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- [09:30]
Dr. David Perlmutter
sure you're getting enough and type restorative sleep that this can be dramatically reduced.
- [09:37]
Sean
Yeah, what are the numbers looking like with people getting dementia and Alzheimer's these days?
- [09:42]
Dr. David Perlmutter
They're not looking good. You know, it's 7 million Americans, those numbers are going to double in the next 25 years. I mean, in America, costing us $330 billion a year right now. That's a lot of money to take care of Alzheimer's disease just in terms of taking care of them. I think a bigger number is the emotional impact it's having on people. And we. How do you quantify that? Right, But I've been through it. I mean, I've been through it with my dad and it's, it's life changing for all the rest of us as well. We need to talk about that because, you know, families suffer, loved ones suffer, and no one, you know, I guess some people consider that, but that's a very big metric, if it could ever metricize. I don't know if you can. But as our metabolic health gets worse, as we have higher, higher rates of diabetes, for example, we expect Alzheimer's to continue to climb. You know, in America, even pre diabetes affects a third of Americans. And the worrisome part about that number is that 90% of them don't even know it.
- [10:50]
Sean
Wow.
- [10:51]
Dr. David Perlmutter
So, you know, that's. So I stand up on the platform here on your show to say, hey, let's get some lab work going. Go to your doctor or go to Function Health or a place where you don't even have to have a doctor order it for you and find out what is not just your fasting blood sugar but your fasting insulin level, because it's the fasting insulin level that tells you whether you're not on the road to becoming even pre diabetic. That's what you want to look at.
- [11:18]
Sean
90 is crazy.
- [11:19]
Dr. David Perlmutter
Yeah, it is crazy. But you know, we live in a, in a world in Western medicine where the, the messaging is, hey, live your life however you choose. And then when suddenly you can't remember things and your kids grandchildren's name or your children's name or whatever it may be, then we'll have something that'll fix that for you. You know, we have a drug that'll fix it. That's not reality. We don't have that drug at all. We do not. If we had that drug, would I be having a different conversation with you? I would. 100%. There's some really cool ideas right now. Maybe we'll have time to talk about them, but we don't. And so I think that let's focus on keeping people healthy rather than waiting for them to become sick and then trying to develop treatments for that illness. The, the Nei Jing, the Yellow Emperor. I can Let me throw a little philosophy. Yeah, we've both had coffee or. I know I've had coffee.
- [12:09]
Sean
I had a little bit.
- [12:10]
Dr. David Perlmutter
Good. 4th century BC said that prevention is the ultimate principle of wisdom. To cure a disease after it has manifest is like digging a well when one feels thirsty or forging weapons when the war has already begun. Or as John Kennedy said in his inaugural address, the time to fix the roof is when the sun is shining. And that's what this is. That's why you're here. That's what this conference is about. Keeping people healthy, not waiting for them to become sick and then saying, oh, what should we do? You know, as it relates to Alzheimer's, the changes metabolically that presage the development of the cognitive issues begin 20 or 30 years ahead of time. That's why I talk to somebody who's 28 right now and not waiting till somebody is 65 or 70 and comes to me and says, you know, my memory's fading.
- [13:04]
Sean
Right?
- [13:04]
Dr. David Perlmutter
Because what's going on in your metabolism right now is critical in terms of your brain's fate, your brain's destiny. And you, my friend, are the architect of your brain's destiny, not me. As a neurologist, have you seen the
- [13:18]
Sean
average age when it comes to diagnosis drop over the years?
- [13:21]
Dr. David Perlmutter
Well, I've seen the. The parameters for the diagnosis change, and that has now started. Encompass younger and younger people. Worrisome. Part of what I just said is that there's a trend to diagnose people based upon blood markers and. Or brain scanning, specific types of brain scan, looking for beta amyloid. And that's worrisome because that opens the door to introducing treatments that are not very safe. And there's a big. As of the time you and I are sitting here right now, there's a big confrontation, even, not just a debate, but a confrontation between neurologists and practitioners versus researchers, saying, how should we diagnose Alzheimer's is based upon the blood markers, or should we be really relying on how that patient is performing cognitively? And I'm in the camp of the latter, along with the blood work and the brain scanning.
- [14:17]
Sean
So you need all three.
- [14:19]
Dr. David Perlmutter
My opinion? Yes.
- [14:20]
Sean
Okay. Yeah.
- [14:21]
Dr. David Perlmutter
I don't want to start instituting treatments that are potentially harmful on people because they have, for example, high levels of beta amyloid. There are plenty of patients who have high levels of this worrisome protein in their brains who do not go on to develop any clinical manifestations at all. Why should we treat them?
- [14:38]
Sean
Right. Yeah, that's. That is concerning I know misdiagnosis, not just with Alzheimer's, is a major issue in, in medical industry.
- [14:44]
Dr. David Perlmutter
Right, yeah. And you know, of course, misdiagnosis, I think, you know, the idea of making the wrong diagnosis, you know, an idea that I think is going to be vastly improved with AI. I mean, I think ChatGPT is a heck of a lot smarter than I am and I'm.
- [14:59]
Sean
Wow, what a statement.
- [15:00]
Dr. David Perlmutter
Yeah, well, no, I mean, it's reality
- [15:03]
Sean
when it comes to Alzheimer's. You think it's smarter?
- [15:05]
Dr. David Perlmutter
I think when it comes to diagnosis. That's what we were talking about. And I have always fancied myself as being really good at that. I can walk into a room and make a diagnosis by looking at somebody and having a conversation. I've even made a diagnosis oftentimes in my office by smell. We're way out there right now.
- [15:23]
Sean
Yeah, I need to learn about that.
- [15:25]
Dr. David Perlmutter
Well, that's not, that's something I don't really share a lot. I mean, I've incorporated over the years all kinds of, not necessarily mainstream, ayurvedic pulse diagnosis. I was trained in ayurvedic medicine. You know, to me, people say, oh, gosh, that Dr. Perlmutter is really thinking outside the box. That's not the goal. The goal is make the box bigger, bring these things in. Just because they're not, you know, mainstream medicine in the United States doesn't mean they're not valid. There's stuff going on, on around the world that is worth looking at. You know, if my dedication to you is to do everything I can to help you with whatever it may be, whether it's your genetic profile or a new illness that you may have, you're depending on me to learn everything I possibly can.
- [16:11]
Sean
Right.
- [16:11]
Dr. David Perlmutter
And that said, it would be a disservice to you not to bring AI onto the team at this point.
- [16:18]
Sean
Massive respect for being open minded about, first of all, AI, but also other forms of healing.
- [16:22]
Dr. David Perlmutter
Totally. I mean, at the end of the day, I want to have the face to face and bond with you like we are right now and let you develop that sense that I'm working for you. I'm on your side here and I'll do everything I can to help you. And you want to look at me and say, I hope he's using every tool that's out there. And my gosh, AI is super powerful.
- [16:43]
Sean
Yeah, yeah.
- [16:44]
Dr. David Perlmutter
In this realm.
- [16:45]
Sean
Yeah, for sure.
- [16:45]
Dr. David Perlmutter
And we'll still connect. And you're not going to be inter facing with a bot. You're going to be interfacing with me.
- [16:50]
Sean
Yeah, well, it saves you a ton of time because if you had to manually read all the paperwork, you know,
- [16:54]
Dr. David Perlmutter
take hours, I mean, you know, it's reading thousands of journal citations on any particular topic at any particular time. I do my best to keep up, but there's no chance.
- [17:04]
Sean
Are you still doing a lot of research? Are you still.
- [17:06]
Dr. David Perlmutter
Oh, I'm more now than ever.
- [17:08]
Sean
Really?
- [17:09]
Dr. David Perlmutter
Yeah. I mean, I'm in the gym this morning prior to our time together, and I'm talking to ChatGPT about something called brain drive neurotrophic factor and how exercise increases its production. And I learned something very interesting for any of the geeks who are watching us right now, that it's not the bdnf, they'll understand what I'm talking about. Made by the muscles. That's good for your brain because it does not cross the blood brain barrier, though it's called brain derived neurotrophic factor. Hey, it's made in the muscles. But there's another pathway from exercise that turns on in the brain the production of this really cool miracle grow for the brain. So you can grow new brain cells, make better connections. But. So, yeah, I'm, I'm loving the science.
- [17:54]
Sean
So you can actually grow new brain cells just from exercise?
- [17:56]
Dr. David Perlmutter
Yes. Wow. Yeah, that's huge. Pretty remarkable. In my day, even back in medical school, we would fully and categorically deny the idea that humans grew new brain cells. We saw it in rodents, we saw it in primates, but there was a, almost a religious rejection of the idea that we grew new brain cells. And it was in 2001 that the first research demonstrated that in fact this process called neurogenesis, what a cool word, was happening in humans. And how that happened was really quite interesting. And it's a very interesting story.
- [18:35]
Sean
Is it true alcohol kills brain cells?
- [18:37]
Dr. David Perlmutter
It does.
- [18:37]
Sean
Or is that a myth? It's true.
- [18:39]
Dr. David Perlmutter
It is. Alcohol, you know, it's changed my outward facing messaging over the years too, is a neurotoxin. And you know, let's talk then about the research saying that, you know, one glass of wine a day in women to perhaps maximum in men, associated at least retrospectively with lower rate, lower risk of cognitive decline. Well, and then the fallback for all of us in explaining that is that, well, they're polyphenols in wine, for example, and they're good for your physiology, they're good for reducing inflammation, on and on. But I think the reality is that we can get those chemicals from other good Things, colorful foods, plants, and that the juice isn't worth the squeeze on alcohol, you know, and interestingly, you know, as we have this conversation, when you say alcohol, I think the context is really important. You know, when you, well, what about caffeine? You immediately we go to, I mean coffee, immediately we go to caffeine, you know, neglecting the 80 other chemicals that are bioactive in coffee, for example.
- [19:49]
Sean
Right.
- [19:49]
Dr. David Perlmutter
Including polyphenols. So I think let's look at the context of alcohol because I think it's valid though to be specific. The bullet point would be alcohol be bad for the brain. Right. But the context I think is important. Wine has polyphenols. You know, drinking scotch to get that level of alcohol each day may be certainly more threatening when it comes to
- [20:12]
Sean
coffee because I know you said you drank some this morning. There's talks about dehydration with it. Have you seen anything with that in the brain?
- [20:18]
Dr. David Perlmutter
You know, caffeine itself is a bit of a diuretic and you do pee a lot, or not a lot, but you will, you know, increase your urinary output when you're exposed to caffeine from any source, you know, an energy drink, whatever it may be. So, you know, drink more water. You know, I'm not trying to be a huge proponent of, of coffee, but it works for me. And I think being selective of your coffee, making sure that it's mold free, third party, validated, organic and how it's prepared is really important as well. I think these things are good considerations. It's. I look forward with my eyes open this morning. I really do. It's. Where's, where's it going to come from?
- [21:02]
Sean
You're like a kid on Christmas.
- [21:03]
Dr. David Perlmutter
Yeah.
- [21:04]
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- [22:06]
Sean
I know that's a controversial one.
- [22:07]
Dr. David Perlmutter
Cannabis.
- [22:07]
Sean
Yeah.
- [22:08]
Dr. David Perlmutter
I think there's a lot more coming out about cannabis now perhaps being not as neutral as we had thought. Right. I, I think there's more and more coming out indicating that it tends to work on circuitry in the brain in a non favorable way beyond the fact that, you know, it's generally smoked, although it can be vaped. And both of those delivery techniques I think can have their associated threats.
- [22:33]
Sean
Yeah, I think my opinions changed on it. I used to be a partaker and I was younger, but caused a lot of brain fog. Now that I think about it, the next day even.
- [22:42]
Dr. David Perlmutter
Well, I think it also the reason some people do smoke regularly is because it allows them to go to a place of isolation and have a little bit more comfort. And you know what I see is that people want to go to, to that place of isolation because they don't want to confront other issues in life that may be a little bit more threatening or challenging or disturbing. And so it is, it's a meta, it's being medicated.
- [23:10]
Sean
That was me. I was disassociating. Yeah. I didn't want to be in the real world.
- [23:14]
Dr. David Perlmutter
Yeah. And we see that commonly. And I think that doesn't then address the underlying issue.
- [23:19]
Sean
Right.
- [23:21]
Dr. David Perlmutter
And you know, ultimately, when you go through life, those things have to be addressed. The early part of our life establishes those challenges. When we're young and based on the interaction with our parents and other early life experiences, then in the middle part of life, we are developing our behaviors and actions to counteract those things. You're not good enough, you're not popular enough, you're not handsome enough, whatever it may be, then we spend decades trying to prove that, well, I am successful enough, good enough, all these things that we build up around us. And then you get to a stage in life when you look at what you've accomplished, you're now the head of this company, you've made all this money of the home, whatever it is, and you realize that didn't do it. It didn't do it for me.
- [24:05]
Sean
That's what a midlife crisis is. Right.
- [24:07]
Dr. David Perlmutter
It's either a crisis or it's an epiphany. And I don't know that necessarily happens in midlife with everybody, but in many people it does happen. Some people it doesn't. It doesn't happen. And they finish their lives in that situation where they just don't get it. But we're seeing more and more that people are opening up and realizing what matters more is connectivity to others and love. And I don't know if it's because of the more pervasive use of psilocybin or other hallucinogens in our society or that people are just finally wanting to do the work, but it's time. It sure is time. The biggest issue threatening us is our loss of sense of connectivity. You know what I'm saying?
- [24:54]
Sean
100.
- [24:55]
Dr. David Perlmutter
It's that we're here and you're there.
- [24:56]
Sean
We're in a digital era now.
- [24:57]
Dr. David Perlmutter
Yeah. And. And it's us and them. We're not connected to them. And the reality is we are fully connected to everyone on the planet, despite our differences in political affiliation, color of our skin, religious decisions, country of origin, whatever.
- [25:15]
Sean
It may be a lot of divide these days. For sure.
- [25:18]
Dr. David Perlmutter
Yeah. But I have hope. I really do have hope that. That, you know, where that could go is not. Not good.
- [25:26]
Sean
I have hope. I mean, I don't know if you're into ancient civilizations, but when you research those, they seem to all be very connected with each other.
- [25:33]
Dr. David Perlmutter
Yeah. And I think that's been the teaching. It's been the religious. Pick a religion. That's what is taught. And we've got to listen to what are, you know, what our religions really fundamentally tell us. You know, it's love thy neighbor as thyself. That was not conditional. That was love thy neighbor, provided they go to your church or synagogue or mosque. There was no condition there. It was love thy neighbor. Three words, done as thyself. That's the second part of what we're talking about today. And that is, what does it take? In part three of life, you had the first part that saddled you with these fundamental challenges. Part two, where you try to offset them by building the walls around you. But part three is love thyself.
- [26:18]
Sean
Yeah.
- [26:18]
Dr. David Perlmutter
And that's. That's the development. That's the connectedness to everyone else and realizing the connectedness to yourself.
- [26:26]
Sean
I definitely want to get there. I would say I'm in part two right now, just being honest, you know.
- [26:30]
Dr. David Perlmutter
Well, you are outside. I see that you're building all these things around you. You've got a platform, you're reaching out. You're. But you're exploring things.
- [26:40]
Sean
Yeah.
- [26:41]
Dr. David Perlmutter
And that's Leads to part three.
- [26:44]
Sean
I also pushed a lot of my trauma to the back and didn't address it for a while. My Childhood trauma.
- [26:49]
Dr. David Perlmutter
And it's not easy. Find me someone who's not going to tell me what you just told me. Including me.
- [26:55]
Sean
Yeah.
- [26:56]
Dr. David Perlmutter
Because I'm going to make a reference that you're not going to understand.
- [27:00]
Sean
Okay.
- [27:01]
Dr. David Perlmutter
The Cleavers don't exist. Now, the Cleavers were the parents of Leave it to Beaver.
- [27:06]
Sean
I heard of that.
- [27:07]
Dr. David Perlmutter
Ward and June Cleaver. They were like the perfect, perfect family.
- [27:12]
Sean
I don't believe.
- [27:13]
Dr. David Perlmutter
Although I always thought Ward was a bit of a jerk, but, you know, he was a little bit overbearing, obviously. Yeah. But, you know, we all had our stuff growing up. And, you know, I came to a realization not long ago that looking at each of my parents, that they did the best they could with the tools that they had. And I think of my father's upbringing and very different from my mother's upbringing. And their childhood experiences were really rough. And they built phase two based upon their needing to survive and what they felt would work for them. And it was during that second chapter of their lives that they raised us as children and passed on a lot of that stuff through their parenting skills. And I did the same thing. But, you know, it's a good framework. There's a new book by Barnett Bain. It has to do with how to, you know, why friendship is so important. Matter of fact, it went on sale two days ago and it talks about these three phases and what it takes to break through and let those things go. Yeah, but I would agree. At this stage in your life, you know, it's really about looking at those earlier events and, and realizing how they've imprinted on you, how they're influencing you every moment of your day to day life in terms of your interactions, in terms of your sense of self, and ultimately recognizing that you're going to push through that and Sean's going to be really in a place of, again, an epiphany. I don't think that in the third phase that phase two fully goes away. I mean, that's, you know, full enlightenment and who really gets to that stage? That's the goal. But that's tough.
- [29:03]
Sean
Yeah, very tough. Yeah. I didn't realize. I think I just normalized it. But I took Sarah Gottfried's trauma test. I got a seven out of nine, which is like pretty high. So definitely need to. Need some work.
- [29:16]
Dr. David Perlmutter
Well, let me go on. On your podcast and saying I love her and we. She just. She gets exactly what we're talking about right now. And beyond doing her own self work has done this outreach that helps so many people. You took her test. You know what she's all about, what and what it can do to help. So you know, she's a very special person.
- [29:37]
Sean
Yeah. Shout out to her. Well, doctor, thanks for your time. I can't wait to read the book. We'll link it in the video. Anything else you want to close off with here?
- [29:43]
Dr. David Perlmutter
No, I want to thank you for. For this time. I've really enjoyed it. I've enjoyed connecting with you.
- [29:48]
Sean
Likewise.
- [29:48]
Dr. David Perlmutter
Very special.
- [29:49]
Sean
Thanks for your time.
- [29:50]
Dr. David Perlmutter
You bet.
- [29:50]
Sean
Have a good one. Check them out, guys. See ya.
- [29:52]
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- [29:57]
Sean
It helps us grow the channel, it helps us grow the podcast, and it means a lot to us. Thank you so much.