Andrew Wilson: The Dark Side of TikTok No One Wants to Talk About | DSH #1648

Summary

Digital Social Hour – Episode Summary

Episode: Andrew Wilson: The Dark Side of TikTok No One Wants to Talk About | DSH #1648
Host: Sean Kelly
Guest: Andrew Wilson
Date: November 29, 2025

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Overview

In this thought-provoking and incendiary episode, Sean Kelly interviews Andrew Wilson, an influential conservative debater and founder of DebateUniversity.com, about the “dark side” of TikTok and the broader challenges faced by right-wing creators online. The conversation traverses topics of censorship, intra-conservative infighting, polarization on social media, targeted smear campaigns, and the shifting political landscape following the assassination of Charlie Kirk. Wilson’s trademark brashness and uncompromising style fuel a candid conversation that spares no one, including fellow conservatives, leftists, and TikTok “propagandists.”

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. New Media’s Hostility to Christianity and Conservatism

• [00:00, 29:16, 31:36]: Wilson opens with a powerful condemnation of TikTok, claiming it has become “a militant, non-Christian arm designed specifically to beat down followers of Christ.” He argues that not only is overt anti-Christian content rampant on the platform, but celebrating the assassination of conservative figures is also tolerated, while pro-life speech is harshly censored.
  • Quote:
    “TikTok has become a militant non Christian arm designed specifically to beat down followers of Christ. Almost every live is about this in some way.” (Andrew Wilson, 00:00)
• Wilson details evidence he gathered of people “reveling” in Charlie Kirk’s death, underscoring the extent of polarization.
  • Quote:
    “Just watching these people revel. They reveled in his death…to revel in it like that takes it to the next level.” (Andrew Wilson, 00:22, repeated analysis 29:36)

2. Censorship, Demonitization, and Content Moderation

• [02:20–04:19]: Both Kelly and Wilson share experiences with censorship and demonetization on YouTube, stressing that platforms’ unpredictable policies render them unreliable for creators.
  • Quote:
    “They give you no justification. They give you no guidance. Even if you have a rep there, it's not…helpful.” (Andrew Wilson, 02:40)
• Wilson’s solution is to host all content on his own site (“the Crucible”), posting only livestreams to YouTube.

3. Intra-Conservative Infighting & The TPUSA/Fuentes Shift

• [06:38–15:09]: The discussion sharply pivots to the death of Charlie Kirk and the resulting factional chaos among conservatives. Wilson asserts that after years of ideological skirmishes, Turning Point USA (TPUSA) and broader conservatism have moved toward Nick Fuentes’ “America First” social agenda, not the reverse.
  • Quote:
    “TPUSA moved a lot more towards Nick Fuentes’ America First than Nick Fuentes’s America First moved towards TPUSA.” (Andrew Wilson, 13:34)
• He blames Candace Owens for exacerbating factional rifts and criticizes right-wingers who “punch right” for clout or out of ignorance.

4. Smear Campaigns, Rage Baiting, and Debate Integrity

• [15:09–23:14]: Wilson details being targeted by viral hit pieces, especially after clips (often edited by ideological opponents) are spread out of context. He calls out figures like Officer Tatum for making baseless personal attacks and then deleting videos when proven wrong.
  • Quote:
    “Nobody who puts out hit piece videos without even getting your side…they poison the well with everybody they come in contact with.” (Andrew Wilson, 17:05)
• Despite frequent slander, he prefers open debate and offers to face critics publicly, asserting that he relishes the risk and believes most won’t accept due to lack of substance.

5. Super Chats & Metrics of Influence

• [21:18–24:49]: A unique metric for political influence is discussed: live streaming “super chats.” Wilson breaks down how live conservative commentary garners bigger real-time engagement than more conventional YouTube numbers, and claims to “beat Candace Owens in super chats” at times.

6. Candace Owens, Mean Girls Cliques, and the Crowder Scandal

• [24:53–28:04]: Wilson is unsparing in his disapproval of Candace Owens—not only for her divisive presence post-Charlie Kirk, but also for her alleged role in the Steven Crowder divorce scandal and “mean girls” cancelation efforts in conservative podcasting.
  • Quote:
    “She did everything possible to ruin that man’s reputation…never apologized for doing that to that man.” (Andrew Wilson, 26:41)

7. Debate Culture and the State of the Left

• [39:03–43:49]: Wilson describes his approach to debate and the importance he places on preparation and intellectual honesty, noting he’s changed or abandoned points when proven wrong. In reviewing opponents, he claims left-leaning debater Destiny is the best adversary in the political sphere, though with glaring ethical blind spots.
  • Quote:
    “The best that the left can field in the political domain is Destiny…there’s still this modicum that I have of respect for a person who even, with all the kind of insults…is still willing to go out and do these debates live.” (Andrew Wilson, 45:24, 46:34)

8. The Structure of TikTok Debates and Propaganda

• [48:00–49:32]: He exposes a system in which TikTok debaters function as “regurgitation machines” supported in real time by Discord groups feeding them talking points, making it impossible to have a fair or honest live exchange.
  • Quote:
    “You're never debating with one. You're debating with the collective.” (Andrew Wilson, 48:33)

9. Platform Strategies and the Importance of Independent Support

• Wilson gives advice to creators about not leaning on algorithms or platform payouts and instead focusing on building direct support and alternate hosting.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On TikTok as Anti-Christian Propaganda Engine
  “Watching these people revel. They reveled in [Charlie Kirk’s] death…to revel in it like that takes it to the next level.”
  (Andrew Wilson, 00:22)
• On YouTube’s Business Model:
  “If they have a sponsor that’s worth millions…and the sponsor says, I don’t want my stuff on that channel…I’m pulling my sponsorship, you’re gone. What do they care?”
  (Andrew Wilson, 03:33)
• On Hit Pieces:
  “They never get rid of the hit piece…But they'll backtrack or maybe send me a DM, ‘Oh, I got this wrong.’ And I'm like, publicly say you got it wrong. Can't do that.”
  (Andrew Wilson, 20:33)
• On Destiny as a Debater:
  “Say what you want about the guy, he’s on tour right now and he is welcoming conservatives in to debate him and he’s not running away from them. There’s an amount of dignified respect I have for that.”
  (Andrew Wilson, 46:34)
• On Candace Owens’ Impact:
  “Candace Owens, I mean, this was a woman who, she had the whole DEI thing where she was saying, these people over here are racist and I'm going to sue them. She had the doxxing website, right? She's a recent conservative convert…”
  (Andrew Wilson, 25:06)
• On TikTok’s Ideological Tilt:
  “That’s where all the propaganda is coming from. That’s where these people are being indoctrinated all day long, 24 hours a day, seven days a week…”
  (Andrew Wilson, 30:46)
• On the Transience of Political Focus:
  “Ukraine, Russia…Nobody cares. The news cycle, it's a dopamine hit…When that news cycle hits, as long as they're pumping out the dopamine and the headlines…they will.”
  (Andrew Wilson & Sean Kelly, 36:38–36:58)

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Important Timestamps

• [00:00] – Wilson opens on TikTok’s “militant anti-Christian” stance and celebration of Charlie Kirk’s death.
• [02:20–04:05] – Platform censorship experiences and creator adaptability.
• [13:34] – TPUSA’s move toward “America First” values.
• [16:18] – Officer Tatum hit piece incident detailed.
• [24:53] – Candace Owens’ handling of Charlie Kirk’s assassination coverage and “mean girls” clique.
• [29:16, 31:36] – TikTok invasions, algorithmic indoctrination, and left-wing dominance.
• [39:03] – Wilson’s philosophy on conspiracy theories and official narratives.
• [45:24] – Reflections on debating Destiny and the importance of intellectual respect.
• [48:33] – Structure of TikTok “collective” debates.
• [51:04–55:14] – Jubilee “1 vs 20” show, staged prompts, and why it was canceled.

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Tone and Language

Wilson’s tone oscillates between combative, sardonic, and occasionally reflective and respectful (notably towards skilled opponents like Destiny). Kelly serves as a grounded, curious interlocutor, pushing for clarity on accusations and incidentally moderating Wilson’s more incendiary claims. The episode is unapologetically partisan, with little patience for left-leaning or centrist arguments, but surprisingly critical of infighting on the right as well.

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Conclusion

This episode gives a raw, sometimes divisive, but deeply revealing look at the new trenches of culture war as seen through the eyes of one of its most vocal participants. It’s essential listening for anyone trying to understand how online debate, right-wing influencer culture, censorship, and social media platforms intersect—and the bitter battles fought over the future of conservatism in the digital age.

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For additional information:

• Wilson’s content: [Crucible Video]
• Debate course: [DebateUniversity.com]
• Debates and events: [Modern Day Debate – DebateCon in Nashville]

Transcript

[Andrew Wilson]

TikTok has become a militant, non Christian arm designed specifically to beat down followers of Christ. Almost every live is about this in some way, some capacity. Even the political ones are really heavily anti Christian, very left wing orientated. And I was able to expose that best after Charlie Kirk had died. And we were able to sit in and listen to their conversations and engage with them and just watching these people revel. They reveled in his death. Now, you know, maybe, okay, you're a leftist and I'm being the most charitable I can be. I don't care. I didn't like the guy die anyway. You know, I can maybe reconcile that in my head. But to revel in it like that takes it to the next level. But why not revel in the death of a Nazi?

[Podcast Host]

Yeah, that's up. Okay, guys, we are in Las Vegas. We finally got Andrew Wilson out here. It took some time, but thanks for coming, man.

[Andrew Wilson]

Of course. Thank you for having me. I appreciate it.

[Podcast Host]

Yeah. You got.

[Andrew Wilson]

Your studio is excellent, by the way.

[Podcast Host]

Not bad, right?

[Andrew Wilson]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, it's really nice.

[Podcast Host]

You do all your stuff from your house, right? All your.

[Andrew Wilson]

Yep, yep. My command station is or was my basement, but little man cave. Yeah. I recently moved to Texas.

[Podcast Host]

Okay.

[Andrew Wilson]

Because I needed additional studio space, so I'm building a new studio there.

[Podcast Host]

Scaling, man.

[Andrew Wilson]

Yeah.

[Podcast Host]

Let's go. What part of Texas?

[Andrew Wilson]

Can't say.

[Podcast Host]

Can't say. Yeah, yeah. You got some enemies. Yeah, I've had a lot of guests go after you, man. I. I got a list here. Neymar, not so Eurodite came on last week. Gary the numbers guy. Emily Saves America, Farha the feminist. So it's nice to finally have you here to defend yourself.

[Andrew Wilson]

Oh, I appreciate that.

[Podcast Host]

Yeah. Something about you is very polarizing, it seems, with these liberals. Huh.

[Andrew Wilson]

They get very upset with me. Yes. Isn't it funny how it's always post debate, but they can't shut up about me, but I never mention them again?

[Podcast Host]

Yeah, it's interesting.

[Andrew Wilson]

Isn't that interesting? It's almost like, well, maybe I didn't perform very well and I need to cope for the next rest of my life.

[Podcast Host]

Right.

[Andrew Wilson]

That's. That's what it feels like to me.

[Podcast Host]

Very interesting. Yeah. How long have you been doing debates for?

[Andrew Wilson]

Well, I guess five years. But I really started going hard at it about two and a half years ago. That's when I decided I'm going to actually try to pursue this full time, which is a dangerous thing because as you know, in this business, very, very difficult to make. Make Ends meet for most people and almost nobody makes it. So it was. Yeah, like, that was kind of a terrifying transition. But who dares wins.

[Podcast Host]

It's very hard. I mean, as we're filming this, I got a strike this morning, you know, for what? Medical misinformation.

[Andrew Wilson]

I thought YouTube wasn't doing that anymore.

[Podcast Host]

They are still doing it, man. I got one a year ago for vaccine stuff and I thought I'd be the last one, but I just got hit with one this morning.

[Andrew Wilson]

Oh, my God.

[Podcast Host]

So it's an uphill battle always, you know, it's very hard to make it like that.

[Andrew Wilson]

That's why I don't even keep content on YouTube. I put it. I put it all on my website because you just. I just do the lives on YouTube and that's it. Because they're ever changing ToS, you can't keep up with it. They give you no justification. They give you no guidance. They help you. They don't help you at all. Even if you have a rep there, it's not even that. That helpful.

[Podcast Host]

So I still don't have a rep. Never got my 100k plaque. Never got my mil plaque. No one's ever reached out to me about that. I hit those milestones a long time ago.

[Andrew Wilson]

Is your channel monetized?

[Podcast Host]

Yeah, we're monetized.

[Andrew Wilson]

Then you should get the plaque.

[Podcast Host]

So weird, dude. I know many people that haven't gotten their blocks.

[Andrew Wilson]

Really?

[Podcast Host]

Yeah. Did you get yours?

[Andrew Wilson]

I did, yeah.

[Podcast Host]

Really?

[Andrew Wilson]

Yeah.

[Podcast Host]

Okay, so you're on good terms with YouTube? Yeah, I guess. Cause you go live and you're bringing them a lot of volume.

[Andrew Wilson]

Yeah. And then. Well, I think that YouTube would prefer to not ever have any political content ever again.

[Podcast Host]

You think so?

[Andrew Wilson]

I think that they would prefer to have cat videos and women doing their nails.

[Podcast Host]

That's how it used to be.

[Andrew Wilson]

And fluffy nonsense and stuff like that. Because their advertisers, I mean, that's where they're making all their money. Super chats. Yeah, that's a good revenue stream. But think of it from their angle. I remember I was talking with Pearl Davis about this and I'm like, look, it doesn't matter if you bring in $100,000 a month and YouTube gets 20,000 of it. If they have a sponsor that's worth millions, and the sponsor says, I don't want my stuff on that channel, and if it even accidentally goes on that channel, right, I'm pulling my sponsorship, you're gone. What do they care? They're the largest video sharing platform in the world. They don't need you.

[Podcast Host]

Yeah.

[Andrew Wilson]

And so, you know, I think. I think, unfortunately, you got to play within the confines of the game, and it sucks. I do everything I can to help creators avoid that kind of stuff, but that's how. I'm really sorry to hear that, man.

[Podcast Host]

Yeah. Yeah. I tell people not to have the social media platforms as your primary source of income.

[Andrew Wilson]

Yeah.

[Podcast Host]

Like, use it as, like, a side thing, because if you rely on them for the payouts, it's too risky, you know?

[Andrew Wilson]

Yeah. They will. They will eventually do you in.

[Podcast Host]

Yeah. What do you think about their recent unbanning of certain accounts?

[Andrew Wilson]

Did that ban anybody?

[Podcast Host]

Come on. Like the Sneako.

[Andrew Wilson]

Well, Sneako, they did, but here's the thing. Sneako had worked really hard for a couple of years to recover his image, and I thought he did a good job with his. With his. With his image campaign. I've talked with Sneako quite a bit. He's always treated me very well, and I was happy to see him get that back because they. He was. They really shouldn't have taken it away to begin with. And they did it based on affiliation. Let's be real. They did it based on affiliation. They didn't take his account away from him because of things he was saying which were just too much because now people in the mainstream are saying things worse than what he was saying. And it's fine. It's part of mainstream discourse. That poor guy, though. Yeah. They ran him through the ringer, and he'd been working on that channel since he was a kid.

[Podcast Host]

Yeah, since middle school, I think. Yeah, they did him dirty.

[Andrew Wilson]

That's his skill set. And he brought a lot of value to YouTube from that. I know that there's polarization around him because he did a Muslim conversion, and, you know, that makes all the Christians mad and this and that, but he didn't deserve that.

[Podcast Host]

You've been debating a lot of Muslims lately. Not lately, no.

[Andrew Wilson]

No.

[Podcast Host]

You're kind of over that one.

[Andrew Wilson]

I stay. I try to stay in the political arena. You can't avoid apologetics 100%, but most of the people who are in the apologetics circles are more focused on virtue signaling than they are on any issues at all that. That affect everybody. And it just drives me crazy, and I can't stand them. And so dealing with, like, dealing with them in any capacity, just. All it does is upset me. I'm just like, are you. Are you serious? Like, they born a million babies a year. You're worried about me saying the word shit? Are you serious? Like, Are you kidding me? And they're like, well, there's a proper way to conduct this war and God is watching. And I'm like, yeah, well, you know, I think he would rather watch me say, hey, you know, don't murder that, that baby, what the hell is wrong with you? Than worry about my refined social palette and social taboos when it comes to language. But what do I know?

[Podcast Host]

Yeah. Which debate topics are you most passionate about right now?

[Andrew Wilson]

Well, obviously after the assassination of Charlie Kirk, I had differences with TP usa.

[Podcast Host]

Don'T get me wrong.

[Andrew Wilson]

But I always said that, that Kirk was more of a force for good than he was for evil.

[Podcast Host]

I agree.

[Andrew Wilson]

And you know, we spent a good 3 solid weeks on TikTok just exposing TikTokers saying and doing the most horrible things behind the scenes to. To attack Charlie Kirk, to call him a racist, destroy his social image, because they want his movement dismantled. They want it dismantled. And they're exacerbating the power vacuum behind the scenes as much as they possibly can to get right wingers to fight with right wingers. I've seen the organized attacks on Erica Kirk, which, by the way, it's the stupidest thing in the world. It's an optical. I mean, that's an optics nightmare. That's an optics nightmare. You know, she. Is Erica Kirk going to mess everything up in tpusa? I mean, I don't know, probably, but you got to wait till she does. You know, you gotta wait till. You can't like preemptively strike because she gave the president and the vice president a hug. Like it's, it's too much.

[Podcast Host]

Yeah, that J.D. vance hug, man.

[Andrew Wilson]

Yeah. And then you find other pictures of her. She hugs everybody like that. Yeah, she basically pats them on. And that's a Southern thing, by the way. Southern women do that all the time. They do the back of the head pat. And if you watch the video, they really try to angle those still frames, don't.

[Podcast Host]

You know?

[Andrew Wilson]

But then you watch Times. Yeah. Then you watch the video and you just don't think anything of it.

[Podcast Host]

Yeah.

[Andrew Wilson]

You know, it doesn't even look bad at all. But if once you get those still frames and you get a bunch of, of the rabble rousers out there and it's like. And the left loves it. In fact, it's the left enhancing the message. Morning. I see more left wing, large left wing platforms putting that out and then dissonant right wingers who enhance that. And it's like, it's just an optical nightmare, man. And you're not going to win people over with.

[Podcast Host]

Does seem like there's a lot of fighting on the right right now. I mean, as we were talking, the Tucker attacks have been at an all time high.

[Andrew Wilson]

Yeah, well, okay, let's see if we can go back in history a little bit here. So. So I've been paying very close attention to this and all of this is really the fault of one person ultimately, I think, and that's Candace Owens. Okay, that's Candace Owens.

[Podcast Host]

I thought you were going to say Fuentes.

[Andrew Wilson]

I don't think so. So let me kind of give you my, my rationale for this. Tucker's doing and having conversation with Owens. Okay. And in that conversations he's being very agreeable with her because. Because she's his friend. Right. And she hates Nick. You know, they did this interview and it got a bit combative. She said things afterwards that pissed him off. And so they've been going at it and they've been going at it for a while now. All Tucker really did there. Right. I mean, he did kind of make the Fed accusation, don't get me wrong. Right. But the problem is, without her there, I don't think he would have said anything about Fuentes. I really don't. I don't think he would have said a word. But he did. And so that pissed off the Graper army bad. And they're like, look, if you're going to talk shit about this guy, do it to his face. Which is fair, totally fair. And they, they basically graped him and graped him and graped him. And eventually he did have Fuentes on and the round one was an interview and he got a lot of shit for the interview. You didn't give enough pushback. He didn't do that. You didn't do. But you know, his show format has not been him debating guests other than.

[Podcast Host]

The Ted Cruz episode.

[Andrew Wilson]

Yeah, well, and that wasn't a debate. He just said to him, look, he's trying to ask him a question, he wants an honest answer. Who are these people? Is it the case that modern Zionism is supposed to support the modern state of Israel? Or even if we took what you're saying here at face value, does it mean something else? He felt like he wasn't getting a good answer and so he pressed. That wasn't really a debate. That was a small snippet from a huge interview and it was a bit combative. But now I've seen brutal bloodsport debate. That was not one of them. And most of his episodes are Just letting the other person talk. Right. While he asks his questions. They get their view out there and he'll bring on their opposition to do the same thing. And by the way, he's hardly the only podcaster who does that. There's thousands of them that do that. So why? He's getting an untold amount of shit. It's for one reason, one reason only. Fuentes is a polarizing personality, but Carlson, he kind of made the bed when he attacked the guy, so he had to have him on, you know what I mean, to, you know, kind of clear the air or whatever it is. And he followed the kind of basic format of his show.

[Podcast Host]

Yeah.

[Andrew Wilson]

You know, now they're like, hey, he said he loved Hitler and Stalin. You didn't push back on that. This. And then it's like, well, there might have been pre agreements, like, you can come on, but, you know, I'll let you tell your side. It's not going to be a debate. There's not going to be a, you know, we're going to jump you. There's not going to be any of that. Like, you don't know what happened behind this.

[Podcast Host]

Nick said there was a call beforehand, so definitely possible.

[Andrew Wilson]

Yeah. You know, a lot of times there.

[Podcast Host]

Is with big shows like that.

[Andrew Wilson]

Yeah. And the thing is, is like, look, the. The mainstream, right, they're messing this whole thing up anyway. The amount of palpable fear. Fear that they have when they even mention this guy gives him more power than they can. I mean, it's like gives him so much power over all of them. They think about him every day and all night long.

[Podcast Host]

Did you see Ben Shapiro's video about him?

[Andrew Wilson]

I did not. What was this?

[Podcast Host]

I think it was today. He made a pretty long video about America, the America first movement and how it's been hijacked by Nick.

[Andrew Wilson]

Yeah. And how the, you know, Ben Shapiro won't debate with him.

[Podcast Host]

Yeah, I'd love to see that debate.

[Andrew Wilson]

Well, the thing is, it's like, it may need to happen now. Well, there's a power vacuum. Tpusa. Say what you want about them, they had the largest ground outreach program in the world by far, and Fuentes knew it early on. He knew that they were moving towards that, and that was one of the reasons that he started the Grapper Wars. Now, I was around, I watched those early on, the Graper wars, and I thought that he was asking a very compelling question, and I don't think he ever got a very compelling answer. And the question over and over was just this if we expand the idea of conservatism to include social degeneracy, what have we won? Like, what are we winning here? How does you. Having a bunch of gay people up on the stage talking about Christian values helping us here, how is that good for the United States? And in a way, it was mesmerizing for people to watch because a lot of us had the same question, like, how are you helping us here with this? How is this helpful? And when you fast forward to Kirk's untimely death due to this lunatic assassin, you find something very important if you follow the history, and that is that TPUSA moved a lot more towards Nick Fuentes America first than Nick Fuentes's America first move towards tpusa. Wow.

[Podcast Host]

Crazy to think about, right?

[Andrew Wilson]

Yeah.

[Podcast Host]

When you put it in that perspective, you're right, though. Everything you stood for, everything.

[Andrew Wilson]

When. When I mean mass. From mass migration to social degeneracy, all of those things. Now, they would. There's huge divergence between Kirk and Fuentes, don't get me wrong. Everything from their interpretation of the Bible, which is the format of their ethics, and Christian Zionism, which is fast becoming the issue of our time, to economics, to how political structures work and how power is supposed to be responsibly used. Totally 180s from each other on that. But on the social issues, Kirk moved towards Fuentes, Fuentes didn't move towards Kirk. And there's no. And I challenge anybody out there watching, I don't care who you are, Officer Tatum, any of you idiots, right? Any of you dummies, prove me wrong on that, Prove me wrong on that. Because it seems like a whole lot of people moved a whole hell of a lot more towards that idea than they move towards the social ideas of tpusa. And I think that that's an objective fact. And if anybody can prove or demonstrate to me how I'm wrong on that, when I followed the linear history between these two, and I followed it very closely, you know, it was an interesting social change that was going on, and it is a fact open challenge to.

[Podcast Host]

Anyone watching this to debunk that. Have you conversed with Officer Tatum yet? Have you debated him?

[Andrew Wilson]

Officer Tatum made a hit piece video about me based on a clip that went viral from whatever podcast. Many of the clips on whatever podcast which go viral are not actually even from Brian Atlas or the whatever team, but often from feminists who cut off key portions of the conversation so that you can't see the overarching context in order to, of course, be Smart. Cheers. Truly. Now, the thing that's interesting about that is it's often right wingers who don't do their due diligence and fall for the rage bait and make videos of their own. Well, that opens up a unique opportunity for me because I get to say, hey, look, stupid, you're wrong. And I'm willing to come on your show. Right, under whatever conditions you want, whatever moderator you want. Time debate, not time debate. Open blood. Sports, not open blood. I don't care.

[Podcast Host]

Right.

[Andrew Wilson]

Whatever format you want, and I will show you. Not only are you wrong, but you lied to your audience about this. They didn't take five seconds to do your due diligence. Well, Tatum did that. He and I have the video. I got it before he deleted it, but he put out a video calling me an unmarried incel and all sorts of things.

[Podcast Host]

So he deleted it because of the push button?

[Andrew Wilson]

Oh, yeah. His comments were just brutalizing him. They're like, andrew Wilson's married. He's been married for years. He has children. What the hell are you talking about?

[Podcast Host]

Wow, that's shocking to me because of all the hate he's getting now. Israel stance. He's not deleting those. But he deleted.

[Andrew Wilson]

He deleted that. And I have. I have it, so if you want it, I'll send it to you. But, I mean, he launched it on his YouTube, and that's where I got it. He deleted it. He never said a word about it. He never. He never said he was sorry. He never apologized. He never said, hey, guys, I got some facts wrong here, you know, and try and tried to besmirch this guy in front of millions of people. I mean, he's got a huge reach. And he was associated with tpusa, even bigger reach. And if a guy like that will put a video out on you without talking to you, what's he saying when you're not there? It ain't gonna be good stuff.

[Podcast Host]

Good point.

[Andrew Wilson]

It ain't gonna be good stuff. Nobody. Nobody who puts out hit piece videos without even getting your side or even trying to or attempting to get the context right behind the scenes, they poison the well with everybody they come in contact with.

[Podcast Host]

I'm sure there's a lot of hit pieces on you. Do you ever want to go the legal route or you kind of just want to battle it out with words?

[Andrew Wilson]

I don't even think it's ne. Look, I don't even think it's necessary. The thing is, if you're in a position that I am when you battle so Many different types of ideologies. And you do it very publicly. You're going to get slandered constantly. I feel like that comes with the territory. I've got a pretty thick skin about it. No matter what they take out of context, do take out of context, you know what I mean? Whatever. It's the Internet. The only thing that makes me angry, that's frustrating to me is when I'm like, you know, I'll come on and give an accounting. Like, I'll come talk to you and tell you what the context was behind that, why I said it, why I think it was important, and I'll even tell you if I thought I was wrong, you know what I mean? And we can have that discussion or have that debate around that issue. You know, I'm always happy to do that. And to watch him just cower and come up with excuses drives me crazy when they're like, well, no, it's because you're too bad faith. How could that be bad faith if it's. If it's on your show with your rules and everything, How. How could I be bad faith if I'm coming to you?

[Podcast Host]

How. They got all the leverage.

[Andrew Wilson]

You got all the leverage. Right. What it is, is they know they're lying. And I'm one of the few people who. I have the social skills, the inner. The inner communication skills, the clout and the debate skills to demonstrate it in front of their audience. And that's a terrifying proposition for people.

[Podcast Host]

Yeah. It's rare to have all those skills in one person, I've noticed.

[Andrew Wilson]

Very rare.

[Podcast Host]

Super rare. Very rare. Probably one hand you could count.

[Andrew Wilson]

Yep. I've been very fortunate with that. Fuentes is a guy who's like that. Right. He's another one, Carlson. He has many of those skills, but he doesn't have the kind of overarching debate skills or the foundation that you would need for that. And he's not as good of an entertainer. Right. But he is a very good. He's very good at capturing what's going on in the social ethos and presenting it in a way that's not only very controversial, but sometimes it's mostly controversial because it makes sense. Right. And he's very good at that. And sometimes I think that's the better skill set to have because, you know, for me, maybe, I guess you could say I'm too easy to bait, you know, or something like that.

[Podcast Host]

Rage bait.

[Andrew Wilson]

But I don't think so. I think that you do get fiery.

[Podcast Host]

In some of your debates. I noticed, of Course, of course.

[Andrew Wilson]

But I think that that's part of showmanship, and I think it's part of entertainment, and it doesn't take away from my argument. And I always like to watch the cope of people saying, well, he was emotional. And then watching other people say, but how is he wrong? Facts and they have nothing. And I'm like, well, if all you can focus on was the fact that I was animated during the debate, but you have nothing against my arguments. And I feel like I won pretty handily. Right. But anyway, you know, kind of back to this. To the. To the social paradigm. I don't even think that it's. That I'm easy to bait. I think that I'm just one of the few who will say, look, if you're gonna make a hit piece, why don't you actually let me come give an accounting? You know, why don't you actually, you know, say these criticisms to me where I can respond to them in front of your audience and mine, you know, and then if you're right, don't I have all the risk, you know?

[Podcast Host]

Yeah. Has someone ever backtracked on their hit piece on.

[Andrew Wilson]

You do it all the time. Oh, yeah, but they never get rid of the hit piece. Never get rid of the hit piece. That got too much views, you know what I mean? But. But they'll backtrack or maybe send me a dm. Oh, I got this wrong. And I'm like publicly say, you got it wrong. Can't do that. Can't do that.

[Podcast Host]

Not your business.

[Andrew Wilson]

Yeah. But like, Tatum, he has. I have every right to ask that guy and tell that guy he owes me an apology. He does.

[Podcast Host]

Yeah.

[Andrew Wilson]

He should. He should be in my. He should literally either publicly or send me a DM immediately and be like, look, I'm really sorry I did that to you. That was a horrible thing to say. That you're an unmarried incel. And try to present you in that light in front of your wife and kids and family and everyone else. Like, what a horrible thing to say.

[Podcast Host]

I'll try to mediate that if you want. Sure. Have you had someone try to mend the bridges there?

[Andrew Wilson]

The guy won't even communicate with me. I'm too small. Even though my live audience is way bigger. Right. I have one of the larger live audiences around for a conservative commentator, usually breaking my. My Daily Rumble show does, you know, 20 to 30,000 live.

[Podcast Host]

Wow.

[Andrew Wilson]

On YouTube, I usually stick around somewhere between 7 to 10,000. And if I'm doing something important, much more than that, with another Few thousand on Rumble watching. So I have a huge live audience. Way bigger than Tatum. Right. But I think that that's what they. What, you know, what they're afraid of is like, hey, you know, this guy will come on, he'll actually defend himself and I'm going to look dumb.

[Podcast Host]

Yeah. Those live audiences are more impressive to me than getting 100k on a YouTube video.

[Andrew Wilson]

Way more. It's way harder to build. And you can't fake it.

[Podcast Host]

Well, you can, but you can't if.

[Andrew Wilson]

They have the Super Chats to back it. And you have to remember that I'm usually in the United States. I'm usually in the top five most super chat channels and in the world, usually in the top 20.

[Podcast Host]

Wow. So there's a ranking website that shows up.

[Andrew Wilson]

Yeah. You can go to Social Blade and look at it.

[Podcast Host]

Interesting. Who's in the top five? Well, gotta be Fuentes.

[Andrew Wilson]

No, no. But he's not on YouTube.

[Podcast Host]

I get so many clips of him getting donations and him just roasting his audience.

[Andrew Wilson]

Oh, sure, but he's not on YouTube. If he was on YouTube, he would probably be the number one.

[Podcast Host]

Yeah.

[Andrew Wilson]

The number one slot, period. I mean, the guy did great. When he was. He did great. And when he was on Twitch, he did great. And when he was on D Live, he did great. Like, he's. His. His audience definitely wants to support him with monetization, but so does mine. And I can't. Like, there's. There's not even in the top five. Like, if I named the channel name, she wouldn't recognize any of them.

[Podcast Host]

Okay.

[Andrew Wilson]

Because none of them are conservative commentators.

[Podcast Host]

So in the political space, you might be number one then for.

[Andrew Wilson]

On the right. On YouTube, at least for. For overall Super Chat donations that could be the case. I'm not gonna say it is, because I'm not sure.

[Podcast Host]

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[Andrew Wilson]

Either way, I don't see anybody ever who's a right wing conservative commentator is in the top five there. No.

[Podcast Host]

Well, I'd say right now, just because she's still covering the Charlie stuff, Candace has to be up there because she's going live every day right now.

[Andrew Wilson]

You beat Candace in super chats.

[Podcast Host]

Really? Because she's getting a big viewership right now.

[Andrew Wilson]

I think we beat her in. I think we beat her in overall. Now, again, I could be wrong and the audience can correct me if I am. You can look at the numbers. They come out on social play quite a bit. But I think we actually do beat her.

[Podcast Host]

Well done. Have you been following her series covering Charlie's assassination on YouTube?

[Andrew Wilson]

Yeah. She's a lunatic and an idiot. And I've always said she's a lunatic and an idiot. And I debate her on these topics anytime, any place that she wanted to, starting with her Bridget Macron series, which is complete nonsense. Not a single positive piece of evidence ever presented by her. All of this gain from somebody who is another crazy person. And it's very easy to kind of track this. Yeah, she's. Yeah, she's not. And by the way, you know, you want to know why it is people ask me all the time, you know, you usually don't punch, right? Usually don't. And I usually don't. I usually don't punch right. I used to a lot more, but I don't anymore because we need a more unified front now, and I haven't for a long time. But Candace Owens, I mean, this was a woman who, she had the whole DEI thing where she was saying, these people over here are racist and I'm going to sue them. She had the doxxing website, right. She's a recent conservative convert. That's one. But the second big one is what she did to Steven Crowder when Steven Crowder, when that came out from Hillary. Okay, Hillary Crowder completely manipulated the situation. There's thousands of hours of tape and she released just a small segment of it at an opportune time to try to destroy this guy on her way out to up her bargaining, negotiation, standing for. For money. That's it. And Candace capitalized on that and did everything possible to ruin that man's reputation by saying he was an abuser and all of these other horrible things. Never apologized for it ever. She's never apologized for doing that to that man. And he's. He's a great guy. Like, I mean, he's not just personally a good guy who will help basically anybody for any reason, but she knew it was bullshit and did it anyway.

[Podcast Host]

That's fucked up.

[Andrew Wilson]

It's fucked up.

[Podcast Host]

Damn. Yeah, that. That cancellation, I feel like that one was pretty effective.

[Andrew Wilson]

Sure. And you know what? That's why I say, man, you know, it's when the shit hits the fan, who's got your back when that happens? That's how you know who to stick with going going forward. Especially in the podcast world, because there was almost everybody turned on Crowder except for a few people like Pearl Davis. She was pretty stalwart. Say what you want about Pearl, she didn't back away one iota from Hillary or the mob. And they were gunning for her, man. They had huge private chats to get rid of her. Huge private chats to go after people. She exposed the entire mean girls clique, which included Lauren Southern and many of these other people. They're all interconnected. They're all interconnected in this little mean girls club where they were trying to cancel people, get dirt on them, expose them, this and that. And they were doing that to Steven, too.

[Podcast Host]

Jeez.

[Andrew Wilson]

They were doing that to Steven, too. And, you know, she could have just said this even if she thought that it was fishy or this or that, or maybe she even thought Stephen was just not such a swell guy. She could have done what more women should do and shut the fuck up.

[Podcast Host]

You kind of came on the scene after peak cancel culture. So has that ever happened to you where they try to cancel you?

[Andrew Wilson]

Constantly. Oh, still, I don't keep. That's why I don't keep any of my content on YouTube. You have to go to the Crucible video to get my. My content list. And. And it'll always be like that because they mass report every video. They flag everything that I do, every. Every chance that they get. It's not just leftist. There's right wingers who do it, too, who have been embarrassed by me in various debates. And even after this interview, I can almost guarantee you that there'll be hit pieces on me after this interview and over what they're not going to be able to objectively say anything I'm saying is untrue. It's just smokey man bad. Smokey man bad. Smokey man bad.

[Podcast Host]

That's the nickname for you? Smokey man.

[Andrew Wilson]

Yeah, Smokey man. The smokey man is bad.

[Podcast Host]

Yeah. I lost my tick tock man.

[Andrew Wilson]

Oh, that sucks.

[Podcast Host]

Yeah, that was a big loss. We were getting a lot of views.

[Andrew Wilson]

There we go on the tick tock. Have you ever seen a tick tock invasion?

[Podcast Host]

Is that the debate? The live debates when I do, when.

[Andrew Wilson]

I go into TikTok and you raid like Harry Sisson. Yeah. And I go in and tangle with those guys.

[Podcast Host]

Yeah.

[Andrew Wilson]

Most fun you can have anywhere on the Internet. Is it?

[Podcast Host]

I can't believe they let you up still. They know you're shindig by now, right?

[Andrew Wilson]

Yeah. Well, I mean go in under other names.

[Podcast Host]

Oh, you use an anonymous account and voice changers.

[Andrew Wilson]

Even if I need to.

[Podcast Host]

Damn.

[Andrew Wilson]

They're not going to. I'm not going to let. Tick tockers. Tick tockers. Here's what's happened. TikTok has become a militant non Christian arm designed specifically to beat down followers of Christ. Almost every live is about this in some way, some capacity. Even the political ones are really heavily anti Christian.

[Podcast Host]

Wow.

[Andrew Wilson]

Very left wing orientated. And I was able to expose that best after Charlie Kirk had died. And we were able to sit in and listen to their conversations and engage with them and just watching these people revel. They reveled in his death. Now, you know, maybe, okay, you're a leftist and I'm being the most charitable I can be. You know what I mean? I don't care. I didn't like the guy anyway. Okay, okay. You know, I can maybe reconcile that in my head. But to revel in it, you know, like that takes it to the next level. Yeah, but why not revel in the death of a Nazi?

[Podcast Host]

Yeah, that's fucked up. So the kids were actually celebrating on these lives and you were entering these rooms.

[Andrew Wilson]

Oh yeah. I can send you clip after clip and so can my audience. Wow.

[Podcast Host]

I mean that is nuts.

[Andrew Wilson]

They told me they would tell me right to my face, you know, because I'm rico on on TikTok. I'm a nobody. They tell me right to my face, you know, I mean, he absolutely deserved it. Good. You know, and I hope Erica burns in hell after him. Horrible people.

[Podcast Host]

Geez, horrible people.

[Andrew Wilson]

And you know, you can't say abortion on TikTok because that'll get your channel banned. But reveling in the death of a conservative commentator who was assassinated live in probably one of the most socially compelling and demoralizing events of our Time, you can revel in that, no problem. Hey, but, but let's go after Nick because, you know, he said some edgy stuff on Tucker. Let's go after Tucker because he let it happen. Yeah, it's like, that's the world, this world over here, the tick tock world, the Instagram world. That's where all the propaganda is coming from. That's where these people are being indoctrinated all day long, 24 hours a day, seven days a week. And we've been building in the background a network to stop that by engaging with these people nonstop, over and over again, 24 hours a day. There's conservatives now from the crucible debating on TikTok, trying to kind of push back the horde of not just misinformation about Christian nationalism and what they consider Christian authoritarianism and this type of thing, but also just to push back on basic humanity. And where are these guys doing this? They're not doing it anywhere. They're just, they're just gonna snipe at each other on Twitter. What a waste of time. Yeah, what a waste of time.

[Podcast Host]

Have you noticed any significant algorithm changes since the new TikTok ownership took over?

[Andrew Wilson]

No.

[Podcast Host]

None at all.

[Andrew Wilson]

Nothing really?

[Podcast Host]

That's surprising. You'd think it would have gotten better.

[Andrew Wilson]

Just as bad, Just as full of leftists, just as full of lunatics, witches, warlocks, sorcerers, crystal miners, you know, crazy satanic individuals. Some, some of them will have pentagrams on their head while they do their lives. Everything that they can do to demoralize Christianity and spread a propagating message against it, they're doing. And if you don't believe me, just go watch a TikTok invasion. Just go watch it. I've had just hundreds and hundreds of DMs from all over the world of people going, I didn't know that this was happening. I had no idea that this was even occurring. And there's just hundreds and hundreds of these lives going on all day long, just completely to demoralize and destroy anybody who has any sort of grounding in Christian ethics. That's insane.

[Podcast Host]

Trump's administration has to be aware of this, right? I'd imagine someone on their team.

[Andrew Wilson]

Well, the thing is, again, this became, when it becomes political, it becomes complex. There's multiple arms now in the political infighting and the right, the dissident right and the social left have something in common. The Anakasparians and the Sankh Yur have something in common with the Nick Fuentes's, which is that they're Very much anti Zionist. And so for some of the dissonant right, that is the message. And the only message that matters is Zionism and Jewish influence in the United States. And if the left is on board with that, they'll accept it and allow these other kind of social issues to go by the wayside until that one's dealt with. Because they think that kind of out of everything, that's the one that trounces everything. So in a way, there's an unholy alliance on that front. But on the flip side to that, we also have the mass conservative infighting from the Zionist Christians, which almost seem to make their point. Like these guys can't say anything without an entire swath of former MSM affiliated or TP USA affiliated or big money, big business, big conglomerate affiliated conservatives going after them. They can't. They can't say a word. Now, is there some bad optics in I heart Hitler? Yeah, okay. Yeah, there's some bad optics there. Okay. And does it open you up for some serious criticism? Yeah, I think it does.

[Podcast Host]

You're gonna lose some sponsors.

[Andrew Wilson]

But all it does ultimately is it's still distracting from the other points that do bring people in, which is, and I'll go through them, Mass migration, number one point. Right. Mass immigration. Mass migration is the most unpopular policy in the world. In the world. Nobody likes it. Except leftists. For some stupid reason, they're gonna die on that hill. Everyone hates it. Abortion. Right. And these are just social issues. Lgbtq, trans. Right. The list. I can give you a huge list of social issues which are going on. Feminism, female empowerment. The idea of intersexual dynamics being so screwed up. Like there's a huge categorical list that is just being ignored. Ignored instead. Only to focus on this because of what's going on in the Middle east between Zionist, Anti Zionist. Well, eventually that, you know, everything has an ebb and flow in politics. That message will start to decline and these people are going to have to get back to these other things. You got to realize a lot of them are way more progressive than you thought. Hmm.

[Podcast Host]

You really think he'll decline? Because when I go on my ex right now, it's 80% Israel war. That's all I'm saying. Yeah, I. I can't. I'd imagine TikTok similar. I don't know.

[Andrew Wilson]

But nothing lasts forever.

[Podcast Host]

Yeah. So you think you'll. Because it seems like it's only getting more powerful, in my opinion.

[Andrew Wilson]

Yeah. Do you remember? Well, you're probably too young. 28, 9, 11.

[Podcast Host]

I barely remember?

[Andrew Wilson]

Yeah, exactly. So you probably don't remember 911 when you're talking about that. That was more critical, I think, to America in our psyche than what's going on in Israel in the Middle East. And that did wane in about four or five years. It started to really wane off and people started focusing on different issues. And as the Iraq war and Afghanistan war continued, many people just forgot there was one. They just forgot all about it. You still had veterans coming home and they're like, wait, you got deployed where? They still do that. They still do that. That's still happening and it will wane. And because the situation has to resolve itself at some point, either with an uneasy peace, which is the most likely, or with complete decimation, which is the least likely.

[Podcast Host]

I just wonder because 9 11, that was pre social media, now you're just seeing it non stop everywhere. You know what I mean?

[Andrew Wilson]

Can I give you an example?

[Podcast Host]

Sure.

[Andrew Wilson]

Ukraine, Russia. Ukraine.

[Podcast Host]

That's a great example. Actually, I barely see it anymore.

[Andrew Wilson]

Nobody cares.

[Podcast Host]

Yeah, but that could be by design too.

[Andrew Wilson]

Could be. You know, the thing is, is like I never chop up to conspiracy. What can be explained with stupidity. And the truth is, is that the news cycle, it's a dopamine hit and it's been a dopamine hit for a long time.

[Podcast Host]

Yeah.

[Andrew Wilson]

And creators are just as bad as the old MSM used to be with that dopamine hit. When that news cycle hits, as long as they're pumping out the dopamine and the headlines and they're getting the views and the clicks, they will. And if people's interests start waning towards something else, they cover that for the most part.

[Podcast Host]

Are you pretty anti conspiracy theory?

[Andrew Wilson]

Well, no. I mean, the government has tens of thousands of laws in the books about conspiracies because they seem to see them everywhere. So I would say that no, yeah, there's definitely conspiracy theory that aren't theories, they're just conspiracies.

[Podcast Host]

Okay.

[Andrew Wilson]

And the term conspiracy theory was popularized by the Central Intelligence Agency to make people look bad because they would point out things which were objectively true. So there's thousands of conspiracies going on right this second. But I guess when we make the referent of a conspiracy theory, there's still tons of people who try to connect dots which aren't there and they try to kind of propagate what the left would refer to as misinformation or things like this for the purposes of using clicks. But that does not mean that conspiracies don't happen. MK Ultra happened. That wasn't a conspiracy. You know, Project Paperclip, which they would have considered a conspiracy. Then it happened. Chemtrails, there's tons, tons and tons that we can go through. So no, I'm not anti conspiracy theorist at all. I know that that's literally designed to demoralize people who are trying to do legitimate work, media work, connecting dots between people who are working in unison towards some goal. That's what a conspiracy is, right?

[Podcast Host]

Yeah.

[Andrew Wilson]

And no, of course. Of course I'm not anti. No, not at all. There's. There's way too much of it which has been declassified where we know. Okay, well, a lot of this stuff did happen, but that doesn't mean that I'm not going to use my brain either. When people are presenting evidence, I'm going to look at it objectively and go through the evidence. I call balls, I call strikes. Right, right.

[Podcast Host]

Yeah. There's a lot of Charlie Kirk conspiracies on what exactly happened. Has your opinions changed since. Since the event. On anything.

[Andrew Wilson]

Well, this is one of the problems, right. It's like there's a problem with never believing the official story. Right. Is because sometimes the official story could be true. On the shooter thing, I mean, I do think that this guy got up on a building and I think he did murder Charlie Kirk. And I think he did kind of in the middle of day and kind of almost nonchalantly jump off a roof and walk away. I do think that that happened. And you know what? The truth is often stranger than fiction. And the fact that one of these lunatics would do that after having dealt with them for years and years doesn't surprise me a bit.

[Podcast Host]

So you're buying the mainstream narrative on it? For the most part.

[Andrew Wilson]

I mean, and there was people who were there on the right and on the left.

[Podcast Host]

Yeah.

[Andrew Wilson]

And they were like, look, you know, where are they? They're not running around saying, hey, you know, I have some questions. There's two people who are. Two people who are really pushing the. Ah, no, it was an inside job. And it's Ian Carroll and Candace Owens. And they have no fucking evidence. They have no good evidence for this at. They've never presented a single shred of compelling evidence. And we don't know exactly what happened yet because there's an ongoing investigation. And yeah, I think. I think you got to be real careful with that kind of thing and destroy your credibility pretty quickly if you get it wrong and you don't need to rush to get it. Right, yeah.

[Podcast Host]

Would you ever sit down with Ian Carroll? Oh, yeah, I'll set that up if he, if he wants it.

[Andrew Wilson]

No, he can sit down with me.

[Podcast Host]

You don't think so?

[Andrew Wilson]

No.

[Podcast Host]

You've gone after him on Twitter?

[Andrew Wilson]

No, I don't think I've really gone after him hard, but I just, I just doubt it. There's, there's a thing that happens with, with like bullshit artists when they're offered a debate with me. You see that they usually have somewhere else to be.

[Podcast Host]

To be fair, you own a debate school, you know, they're probably a little intimidated from that point of view.

[Andrew Wilson]

You mind plugging it?

[Podcast Host]

Yeah, go ahead.

[Andrew Wilson]

Yeah. Debateuniversity.com yeah, we'll put it in the description. Yeah, I appreciate that. It's very kind of you. Also, one of the other reasons I really appreciated you hosting. I'm on a media tour right now for the next 15 days, which is going to end in Nashville, Tennessee for DebateCon. And you can buy your tickets there through modern day debate. And it's going to be a banger. It's also going to have, we have a Saturday night party that we're doing.

[Podcast Host]

Nice.

[Andrew Wilson]

And man, it's going to be great. Then we have hundreds and hundreds of supporters who are going to be there. So I strongly suggest everybody go and get what tickets are left as soon as, as soon as possible.

[Podcast Host]

So that's all.

[Andrew Wilson]

I appreciate you letting me do that.

[Podcast Host]

When you're doing a debate, big debate like that, with a live audience, how much prep goes into that? Like, are you spending hours studying your opponent?

[Andrew Wilson]

I spend hours doing prep daily.

[Podcast Host]

Really? Oh, so you take it very serious.

[Andrew Wilson]

Because I, Well, I, I mean, I spend hours doing prep daily. No matter what my.

[Podcast Host]

Oh, even if you're just by yourself?

[Andrew Wilson]

Part of my daily routine is debate prep.

[Podcast Host]

I don't think a lot of creators can say they do that.

[Andrew Wilson]

No, I think, I think that the, the, the fruits of all my hard work show. And they don't just show in the debates, they show in the creative capacity of the Crucible, the way that we put on shows and the kind of high octane entertainment that we usually present to our audience, which is just, it's fun. And you know, the Internet's still supposed to be fun and shows are supposed to be fun, humorous. Yeah. And I make shows very fun. But yeah, every day is hours of prep. I don't take any days off from doing that really. Occasionally maybe I'll be like, well, you know what, I'm gonn play a video game. Instead. But it's rare. I usually spend a couple hours every single day doing debate prep, or I'm with my team doing debate prep and doing mock debates, or I'm in my discord doing mock debates with my own audience.

[Podcast Host]

Interesting.

[Andrew Wilson]

You know, push me harder. Where am I flawed? You know, hit. Hit me hard. You know, I want to know so I can shore that up. I've taken lessons from great philosophers all over the world. I pay them privately so I can sit in and listen, take notes, pick their brains, because I do take it seriously. I represent the worldview of hundreds of thousands of people worldwide. And I think that that is not just a great honor, but a huge responsibility. And I do take it seriously. And where other people laugh it off, maybe, and they're like, well, you know, it's not really not a big deal in the social zeitgeist, where debate is one of the most powerful weapons you have. Yeah, I think it is a big deal. I think it is.

[Podcast Host]

Is one of your goals to be known as one of the best debaters of all time?

[Andrew Wilson]

That was never a goal. It. That was never. That was never what I set out to do. But it's possible that that happens. You know what I mean? But it was never. What I want to do is be known as a person who did take seriously the responsibility of the worldview I represent, and that I did it. I did as good a job as nobody from the middle of nowhere could have done with that. That's what I. I would rather be remembered for that.

[Podcast Host]

I love it. What if your worldview changes in the future, though?

[Andrew Wilson]

It's possible. I don't think that the grounding foundational of Christianity as the grounding for my epistemology and ontology, the. My entire theory for how knowledge works itself, is going to change that. I don't. Yeah, that's. That. Well, that's not going to change.

[Podcast Host]

Yeah.

[Andrew Wilson]

But there are going to be things within the worldview that do, and I'm okay with that. Because when I don't want to engage in cognitive dissonance, if it becomes the case, even something I've been tied to for years, like, let's say force doctrine is proved wrong, or many of the other arguments I put out in the ethos, which are repeated by thousands of people. Now, if those end up being untrue or demonstrated to be completely false, you know, there's no angle anymore to attack them from, I'll abandon them.

[Podcast Host]

Interesting.

[Andrew Wilson]

I'll abandon them.

[Podcast Host]

Has that happened to you where you had a belief and it got proven wrong.

[Andrew Wilson]

Happens to me all the time.

[Podcast Host]

Seriously?

[Andrew Wilson]

Yeah.

[Podcast Host]

Okay. It's a common thing.

[Andrew Wilson]

Yeah. Very common thing. Right. Cut off the things which they can set on fire, you know what I mean? Cut them off because you don't need them anyway. And all you're doing at that point is giving your enemy resources to use against you. I don't want to go in with false beliefs. And there's going to be times still in debates where I'm proven wrong on certain topics. Doesn't even mean you lose the debate to lose a place point. But if you do lose a point, you know what I do? I obsess over it and make sure that I'm never going to lose that one again, either by abandoning it, adjusting it, or being correct about it.

[Podcast Host]

Yeah. You've debated hundreds, maybe even thousands of people at this point. Which ones stand out to you the most? Out of all of them?

[Andrew Wilson]

The best that the left can field in the political domain is destiny.

[Podcast Host]

Really? Destiny.

[Andrew Wilson]

He's the best that they can field in the political domain.

[Podcast Host]

I thought you destroyed him personally, but I did.

[Andrew Wilson]

But he's terrible in metaphysics, philosophy, he's terrible with epistemology, he's terrible with all of that. He's not good in any normative claims. Normative here meaning ethical. He's only good on normalized political claims because he has hyper focused on memorization. But you'll usually see him only engage in a few things at a time. Usually he's going to engage on Trump, Trump, Trump, Trump, Trump. Why? Because that's where all of his focus has stayed for all kind of mental muscle. Memorization for regurgitation, tds. Well, it's not just, it's not just tds. It's like he's practicing too, you know, and he's, he, he's taking a shit. Look, say what you want about the guy, he's on tour right now and he is welcoming conservatives in to debate him and he's not running away from them. And so like, there's an amount of dignified respect I have for that now. Does the guy suck dick? Yeah. Yeah.

[Podcast Host]

Literally.

[Andrew Wilson]

Okay. Literally. Okay. Was the guy a cuck? Yeah. Okay. All of those things are true. Did this guy let other dudes plow his wife on purpose? Yes. But I gotta tell you, there's still this modicum that I have of respect for a person who even, even with all the kind of insults that come after him for that, which a lot of them are justified, you know, he's still willing to go out and do these debates live with people putting his worldview on the line? And he often wins. In fact, he most often wins.

[Podcast Host]

Wow.

[Andrew Wilson]

And so, you know, And I do, too. I most often win. Right. Guys like Rob Knorr, they often win. But the thing is, that's not by accident. It's not because he's stupid, and it's not because he's not studying, and it's not because he's not focusing on what is important to him. And so to me, it's like two nights in an arena, you put your visor up. You can't kind of help but respect that. When I go in to do a debate with Destiny, I got to take the guy seriously, and he has to take me seriously too.

[Podcast Host]

Do you respect the in person aspect of it? Because I know you don't have the same respect for the TikTok debaters like Dean Harry and.

[Andrew Wilson]

Yeah, well, they're. Well, neither does Essay, though. I mean, he's told. He's. He's. He said that they run away from him too.

[Podcast Host]

Right.

[Andrew Wilson]

Those guys, fundamentally, they're just regurgitation machines. They can't think on their feet. They can't do any of that. What happens with guys like Dean and guys like Parker, you'll see this during the Fuentes debate. I exposed it very early on. And by the way, his. His graper army did, too. Parker was literally sending answers to Dean. What, live? Oh, yeah, yeah. I've got the clips.

[Podcast Host]

Wow.

[Andrew Wilson]

And Parker admitted it.

[Podcast Host]

So it's two on one.

[Andrew Wilson]

No, it's 300 on one. See, what happens is they have a small, like, Discord collective, and they're all shotgunning points to each other.

[Podcast Host]

No way.

[Andrew Wilson]

Parker filters them through, sends them over to Dean or vice versa. You're never debating with one. You're debating with the collective.

[Podcast Host]

That's crazy.

[Andrew Wilson]

And so really, when you look at the debate between Nick Fuentes and Dean, right. If you think that he stomped him, I say that he stomped him. Out of four out of six points. Bad. Right. I thought he could have done some work on the LGBTQ stuff. I didn't think he did great there, but I also think he didn't care about it. He was not there for that. He was there for a political debate. But when you think about it, how bad he stomped them on those issues. Right. He wasn't just stomping Dean's ass. He was stomping probably the 50 guys in the support network and Discord, plus Parker sending him the stuff live. And Dean's reading it off the screen. And that's why they don't do live debates. We invited him. Me and Brian Atlas invited him out to whatever.

[Podcast Host]

I've seen that many times.

[Andrew Wilson]

Yeah, I've offered him 10 grand. I offered him 20 grand. Come to a debate in person. Do you know why they won't. You know why he goes and he does. Emily Saves America, all right. Is because he's an idiot. And if he was sitting across from me and we were in a live debate and you don't. You don't have your little laptop now, and you don't have your cell phone and you don't have people to. You can't win with what you know, which isn't enough. And so. And those guys get exposed very badly for that. And so they stay away from it. They run from it like the plague.

[Podcast Host]

I was trying to set up some debates for you. Coach Greg was quick to oblige. But with. With regards to people on the left, I asked David Pacman. He said no.

[Andrew Wilson]

Coward. David Pacman's the worst of them.

[Podcast Host]

Yeah. He said no. To be fair, he said no to everyone I've offered. So it's not just you. But I think he's very particular on who he goes on. Harry Sisson said no.

[Andrew Wilson]

Tell Sam Cedar he called me out for a debate. Now he won't return my emails. Ask Sam Cedar to come in. Tell him I'll fly out. In fact, I'll pay for his flight.

[Podcast Host]

Okay. Shout out to you.

[Andrew Wilson]

I'll pay for his flight. I'll pay for his hotel. Even though he called me out for the debate. I'll pay for his flight, hotel, and I'll come back out here and do the debate on.

[Podcast Host]

You know, a good one for you would be Mehdi Hasan. Have you seen his GBA episode?

[Andrew Wilson]

You know what, too? Let it be the clash of the debaters. Mehdi Hassan wrote a book. My understanding is that the book is about how to not ever lose a debate. And so I'd like to see him put that in practice. I'd like to see him put that in practice.

[Podcast Host]

You versus him would be a great matchup. I thought he actually did very well in the jubilee debate, the one on 20. Did you watch that?

[Andrew Wilson]

He did, but I thought that there were some. Some outs that he got that he shouldn't have gotten. So bless. Pine SAP's hard. Right. But it became about. It became viral about how to go after the fascist rather than people focusing on what Mehdi was saying. And in a way, it gave Mehdi an out because he said a Lot of stupid things in that debate, but what did everybody focus on? They focused on the guy who was like, well, I am a fascist. Yeah. You know what I mean? It was like, you just don't give them the ammo, you know? Now, look, to be fair to pine SAP, I've gotten caught in those situations too. I did an internal criticism on a guy named Oliver. I did an internal critique where I got him to admit. I got him to admit that if you essay a woman, some of them could enjoy it. Right. He was the one who admitted it, and I started mocking him, and I was like, oh, remember? Only some of them don't like it. Right.

[Podcast Host]

Oliver?

[Andrew Wilson]

I was. My mocking voice, totally mocking this guy. They clipped it as though that was my position.

[Podcast Host]

Wow.

[Andrew Wilson]

And put it out to the ethos. To this day, people still pretend that that was my position when it was his.

[Podcast Host]

I think I've seen that, actually.

[Andrew Wilson]

Yeah. And I was mocking the guy for it.

[Podcast Host]

That's crazy.

[Andrew Wilson]

Not only that, Brian came out and said, no, no, no, no, no. Put out the correct clip. He was like, this is completely incorrect.

[Podcast Host]

But only 1% will see that.

[Andrew Wilson]

Yeah. And they still go with it as though that happened. But that's my own damn fault in a way. Right. Even though I savaged him on the point. It doesn't matter. I put myself in a position where it could be clipped. You know what I mean? Even though. Even though it's the most dishonest clue. You don't even think people are capable. You think nobody's gonna believe that. Yeah. You know they will.

[Podcast Host]

Yeah.

[Andrew Wilson]

And so the thing is, with Mehdi, or, you know, to be charitable, to Pine SAP, I don't think that he thought that him kind of being open and honest with his beliefs was gonna lead to anything like that or the kind of focus being brought away from Mehdi Hasan, the communist scumbag, and onto him personally.

[Podcast Host]

Yeah. Yeah. He was totally caught off guard. I had. I had pine SAP on the show. The next week, he got fired from his job. I think he had to move out of his house. He got doxed. It was terrible.

[Andrew Wilson]

Well, he. I've seen him do Catholic debates in very good faith. He did one, I think, with orthodox Luigi. He's a friend of mine. He's a very, very good guy. At least, you know, what I know of him. You know, I don't know him personally, but he's always treated me very well with. With respect. And when he does Catholic debates and this and that, I mean, you just kind of think he was a Run of the mill apologist. Like, I was kind of shocked.

[Podcast Host]

In fact, he's a nice dude, man.

[Andrew Wilson]

That when he came out with the political ideology, which, by the way, they're speaking in a vacuum. You know what I mean? Nobody has time to really flesh out their views like that.

[Podcast Host]

30 seconds.

[Andrew Wilson]

You got 30 seconds, and it's like. And they destroyed him.

[Podcast Host]

Yeah. You could easily cut it in a way where it makes you look bad, too, on a format like that. Have you ever done a one on 20? Like, you were the one. I know you've been part of the 20.

[Andrew Wilson]

I got a call from Jubilee, from the staff organizer. She said, we'd love to have you come out and do one on feminism because there's huge demand for it. And I said, absolutely. And I said, send all the props over. So I sent all the props over, right? And she gave me a call and said, there's not enough tiktokers we can get who have interest. And I said, yeah, right. What happened is, when I set my prompts over, right, I think that they realized just how. Because I would. I sent things over like, universal suffrage was mistake, you know, things like this. Because it is. I mean, and it's not just for women. It's just that universal suffrage is just stupid as a proposition. I think that they got cold feet. So they actually. They actually scheduled it. We got it scheduled, signed the contract, and then they canceled it.

[Podcast Host]

Wow. Was this after the Pine SAP episode? Because I know they got a lot of. I know they got a lot of heat after that one, and they canceled a lot of shows. Not just your.

[Andrew Wilson]

But they set it up with me after that, which is. Oh, that's so weird. They. Yeah, she called. She.

[Podcast Host]

So maybe it was your prompts.

[Andrew Wilson]

She said, I need you to send over the prompts. Here's the contract. We. Everything was agreed to, and then they pulled the plug.

[Podcast Host]

Yeah, I know they got a lot of heat. There was a petition to demonetize them after that one.

[Andrew Wilson]

Yeah.

[Podcast Host]

So hopefully they can have you on one day. I'd love to see that.

[Andrew Wilson]

I would. I'd love to do it. I'd love to go on there and brutalize 20 feminists. You know what I mean? I wish Allie Beth Stuckey would show up on the feminist side, but what are you gonna do?

[Podcast Host]

Would you ever have a sit down with Nala Ray again?

[Andrew Wilson]

Oh, yeah.

[Podcast Host]

You think she'd do it?

[Andrew Wilson]

No.

[Podcast Host]

Yeah. She's kind of not answering your tweets. I noticed.

[Andrew Wilson]

No, no. Well, the thing is, I was 100% right. I was not only 100% right, but I was vindicated within a couple of days. When she came out with her fake ministry, she lied to everybody and said that she had no ministry. And I said, yes, you do. No, I have no ministry and I don't believe females should be ministers. And then she had her own ministry, the Church of the Guiding Light or something.

[Podcast Host]

Oh, so she started her own church.

[Andrew Wilson]

Yeah. And sold courses on it.

[Podcast Host]

On what?

[Andrew Wilson]

On how to be a better wife and what Christian marriage looks like. And it said right on there, Minister Nala Ray, Steven Crowder did an entire expose on it.

[Podcast Host]

Wow.

[Andrew Wilson]

He provided all the receipts, he showed the ministry everything. And they were selling courses, her and her husband, on Christianity, me and Rachel, my wife, totally vindicated immediately.

[Podcast Host]

What a 180 by her. Wow. I did not know she did all that.

[Andrew Wilson]

She was doing that almost right away.

[Podcast Host]

So you think it was planned?

[Andrew Wilson]

I think that monetizing Christianity is not an easy thing to do. When you were a high profile prostitute for years of your life and made it a point to say that you were a character actress who was a pathological liar to move over then and monetize Christianity through a ministry which is already an affront to it, I think that that's a difficult thing to start raking the money in on. And I don't think that the movement over to Christianity has done well for her as far as money goes. It's done well for her as far as clout goes. But I think that she, she expected something different than what she got because a lot of the pushback was like, look, we're really happy for you, but if it's true that you're going to complain that you're a baby Christian and that the other Christians are picking on you, then why don't you shut up? If you're not competent nor have the knowledge to make any refutations towards them or discuss the face and faith in a competent matter or manner, then then why are you talking about it?

[Podcast Host]

Yeah.

[Andrew Wilson]

If you're a baby Christian who no one allowed to pick on, then you need to be a baby Christian who shuts up.

[Podcast Host]

Then I'd imagine for her financially, it was a tough transition. She must have been making a lot.

[Andrew Wilson]

On of who knows, who knows what the, you know, look, I want to be charitable. And I was right from the very beginning. I said, let's see how it goes first, you know, congratulations. And I'm really glad. Anytime a woman leaves of and she left, she got married. I was very happy for her And I said so publicly. And I was in her corner at first, like, look, 100%, like, I'm glad to see you move away from that life, okay? And then when I was on whatever, it was very clear to me, very clear that. That she didn't give a shit about it or she didn't know anything about it. She was just speaking to speak.

[Podcast Host]

Wow.

[Andrew Wilson]

And I was like, no, no, no, no, no. She denied the Trinity. She denied the basic theology. She called me a heretic. She did all, everything she could do to goad me. And so what goes viral when I say, look, I'm not going to take correction from a woman who's had 50 dicks in her mouth. And by the way, I'm not going to ever. Ever. Is that some kind of, like, spiritual death sentence on me? You think from God that I'm not going to take advice or spiritual advice from a woman who sucked on 50 men's penises? Because I'm not going to. And that seems reasonable to me.

[Podcast Host]

Seems reasonable to me, too.

[Andrew Wilson]

Seems reasonable to me.

[Podcast Host]

Well, Andrew's been great, man. We'll link everything below. You're about to debate coach Greg Adams, so stay tuned for that episode, guys. And anything else you want to close off with here.

[Andrew Wilson]

Yeah. Come see me in Nashville at DebateCon, hosted by Modern Day Debate. Gonna be up against Richard Carrier. Real, real smart guy. Gonna be a very tough debate for me. I'm looking forward to you to say.

[Podcast Host]

That that means this guy's legit.

[Andrew Wilson]

Oh, man, I can't wait. I'm looking forward to it. He's a real smart guy and he knows his shit, and that's the stuff that gets me excited. That'll be Sunday, Saturday against Daniel Kikikhu, very famous Muslim apologist. Less excited for that, but still fun. But the carrier, it's going to be a doozy. So come see me there. Go to debateuniversity.com, pick up my course. It's fantastic. I spent a lot of time on it. And then lastly, make sure that you become a member of the Crucible video for my entire back catalog. Tons of debates, tons of entertainment. I promise you'll be entertained for hundreds and hundreds of hours.

[Podcast Host]

Let's do it. Sounds good. Thanks, man. See you guys. Crush. I hope you guys are enjoying the show. Please don't forget to like and subscribe. It helps the show a lot with the algorithm. Thank you.