Digital Social Hour – Episode Summary
Podcast: Digital Social Hour
Host: Sean Kelly
Guest: Ben Lamm (CEO & Co-founder, Colossal Biosciences)
Episode: Ben Lamm: The Truth About Jurassic Park & Real De-Extinction | DSH #1586
Date: October 24, 2025
Episode Overview
This episode features serial entrepreneur Ben Lamm, CEO of Colossal Biosciences, the company working at the forefront of “de-extinction”: using advanced genomics, AI, and synthetic biology to bring back extinct species like the woolly mammoth, dodo, and even direwolf. Host Sean Kelly and Ben Lamm dive deep into how Colossal leverages AI, quantum computing, and new biotechnologies, the scientific realities versus Jurassic Park myths, conservation and ethics, as well as the excitement and criticism surrounding de-extinction.
Key Discussion Points & Insights
The Myth of "Dino DNA" & Jurassic Park (00:59, 28:10)
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No Real Dinosaur DNA: Ben emphasizes that extracting dinosaur DNA from amber, as depicted in Jurassic Park, is impossible.
“There is no dino DNA because the earth went through various heating period since extinction of the dinosaurs. Also, DNA...the oldest DNA we're working with is about 1.5 million years old. It's not 65 million years old.”
— Ben Lamm [00:59], [28:49] -
Why Not Dinosaurs?: No sample exists; DNA degrades beyond recovery after a few million years. Technologies like artificial wombs might allow other extinct mammals, but for dinosaurs, “we don't have any DNA and nothing to gestate them.” [28:49–29:58]
Colossal's Use of AI & Future with Quantum Computing (01:30, 03:47, 04:59)
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AI Built Into Every Step: AI supports DNA assembly, comparative genomics, and analysis—scanning thousands of bird skulls to model how genes shape beaks, using machine learning to rank gene variants for biomorphology.
"We're using AI for everything from ancient DNA assembly to comparative genomics...we’ve actually built models where...we use AI to compare all of the actual images to that sequence data..."
— Ben Lamm [01:41] -
Multiplex Genome Editing: Colossal developed algorithms to optimize genome modifications (using CRISPR and more) to create multiple edits efficiently and without undesired downstream effects, drastically accelerating progress.
“…We’re creating so many cell lines and screening so much data we then feed that back into this loop so that we can understand which types of edits make the highest efficiency…”
— Ben Lamm [02:41] -
Quantum Technology on the Horizon: Lamm predicts quantum computing will soon enable in silico genome engineering simulations, drastically boosting the ability to model outcomes before lab work begins.
"If we could actually run simulations in real time of all the possible variants...that simulated outcome could be [predicted] without...any of the wet lab experiment itself."
— Ben Lamm [04:59]
Conservation, "Rewilding," and Open-Source Science (06:56)
- From Data to Ecosystems: Colossal open-sources its conservation-relevant work—sharing AI models for animal behavior/migration. Lessons learned reintroducing Asian elephants are applied to synthetic mammoth herds.
"...All the work that we do for Colossal that has an application to conservation, we open source for the world...What we learn from elephants today can then apply, build those kind of base case models...for mammoths."
— Ben Lamm [06:56]
Woolly Mammoth Timeline & Technologies (07:52, 09:17)
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Mammoth by 2028? Lamm says they remain on track: "By end of 2028...22 month gestation. That means that we have to be at our embryos by the end of 2026 and we're on track for that." — Ben Lamm [07:55]
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Assisted Reproductive Tech & Artificial Wombs: Working to implant mammoth embryos into Asian elephants (as surrogates), and developing artificial wombs for future scalability.
"Long term, we want to use artificial wombs. We actually have numerous artificial womb projects going on..."
— Ben Lamm [09:19]
Why Bring Back Extinct Species? (11:32, 12:55)
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Inspiration and Ecosystem Restoration: Inspired by working with George Church; sees de-extinction as a way to “help elephants today and inspire the next generation” to enter genetic engineering and conservation.
“Companies like SpaceX are inspiring people to go be engineers. What if we could do that for biology?”
— Ben Lamm [12:35] -
Pop Culture & Engagement: Projects like the direwolf capture public imagination; Colossal gets frequent fan art from kids and classrooms.
"Every week, we get pictures of, like, mammoths and dodos. Now we're actually getting direwolves, which is pretty cool..."
— Ben Lamm [12:55]
Scientific Drama: Direwolf Announcement (13:08–15:52)
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Rolling Out Breakthroughs: Announcing the direwolf involved managing embargoes, media leaks, and public confusion over the science.
"It was a crazy five days...everything that could have happened did happen...People were arguing that direwolves’ closest living relatives wasn't wolves, it was jackals. No, that paper's old!"
— Ben Lamm [14:11] -
Ethical Review & Transparency: Colossal works with indigenous groups and seeks approvals from animal welfare and federal agencies.
"We worked with American Humane Society...we even took it to the federal government..."
— Ben Lamm [14:58]
The Role of Keystone Species & Human Impact (17:43–23:23)
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Ecological Ripple Effects: Explains with compelling historical examples (wolves in Yellowstone, the thylacine and Tasmanian devils) how removing a predator degrades ecosystems, increases disease.
"...The reintroduction of wolves has actually increased biodiversity...reshaped rivers in Yellowstone.”
— Ben Lamm [17:43]"When you have an absence of a predator in an ecosystem, it actually has this effect where you get more sick animals."
— Ben Lamm [21:19] -
Human-Driven Extinctions: The loss of keystone species is "directly, inversely related" to human expansion.
"On every continent that you study, the rise of early man is 100% inversely related to the decline of megafauna."
— Ben Lamm [22:20] -
Colossal’s Mission: Focuses on restoring keystone species (mammoth, thylacine, direwolf, moa) and collaborates with indigenous groups for cultural and ecological guidance. — [23:16–24:55]
Science Pop-Culture Crossovers & Open-Minded Research (24:55–28:04)
- Ancient Mummies and Mystery Samples: Lamm describes being open to analyzing fringe samples—tridactyl mummies, even credible Bigfoot or Yeti claims—if the scientific process is followed.
"...We get all kinds of crazy stuff...if it's a credible source or it's had some level of scientific rigor, we do it."
— Ben Lamm [27:24]
Limits of De-Extinction (28:10–31:18)
- Technically Impossible Species: Beyond dinosaurs, other extinct animals (e.g., giant ground sloth, giant beaver, stellar sea cow) are now just DNA in a tube—no living surrogates for gestation.
"There's other species that we cannot create today because there's nothing to gestate them. And this is where artificial wombs come in."
— Ben Lamm [29:46]
Spin-off Technologies & Human Genetics Ethics (32:12–37:00)
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Human Applications Spun Out: Colossal does not work on human genome editing, but spins off tech (e.g., cell lines, AI platforms) for medical or industrial use. Lamm personally used genetic embryo screening to avoid passing on a gene mutation.
"If there's an application for human health care...we'll spin those out. We won't use those technologies [at Colossal]."
— Ben Lamm [32:15] -
Orchid Health Experience: Lamm details using advanced embryo screening for his own child; strongly supports parents making informed choices to avoid inheritable genetic diseases.
“…Why wouldn't you want to...choose the best opportunity for the kid from a health perspective?”
— Ben Lamm [37:00]
Innovations in Animal Health: Elephant Herpes Vaccine (37:02–39:18)
- EEHV Breakthrough: Colossal developed an mRNA vaccine for elephant herpesvirus, the #1 killer of elephants, using AI and synthetic biology, and made it open-source for use by zoos and conservationists.
"If Colossal does nothing else...Colossal will save more elephants than all of humankind working on elephant conservation for all of history."
— Ben Lamm [38:46]
Big Picture: Abundance Mindset, Synthetic Biology, New Frontiers (39:41–42:37)
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Debunking Scarcity: Lamm argues against zero-sum thinking in conservation, tech, or resources.
"This idea that there's a finite supply of resources...is just crazy.”
— Ben Lamm [39:41] -
Synthetic Biology’s Promise: Synthetic biology can help re-engineer animals, plants, coral reefs to adapt to climate change and ecological crises.
"Colossal will help usher in a world of synthetic biology where we're engineering animals and plants and everything to coexist better."
— Ben Lamm [41:41] -
Coral Reefs: Massive marine die-offs could be mitigated with genetic engineering; there's a need for new generation scientists at the intersection of genomics, marine biology, and computation.
"If coral can't exist where it's going, that doesn't really matter...we have an opportunity and I'd argue a moral responsibility to step in."
— Ben Lamm [41:28]
Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments
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On AI’s Role:
"These projects would take, you know, decades if we didn't have AI and I think some of them probably wouldn't even be able to be done."
— Ben Lamm [02:41] -
On Conservation Impact:
"If we just can get EEHV distributed, Colossal will save more elephants than all of humankind working on elephant conservation for all of history."
— Ben Lamm [38:46] -
On Public Backlash and Vision:
"You can please some of the people some of the time. But it was crazy. It was really, really great. But at the end of the day, I think if you're not doing something that's like, big and bold and in getting that reaction, well, then you're probably not doing enough."
— Ben Lamm [15:28] -
On Inspiring Future Scientists:
"What if we could do for biology what SpaceX did for engineering—to inspire a new generation?"
— Ben Lamm [12:35]
Timestamps for Key Segments
| Timestamp | Segment | |-------------|------------------------------------------------------| | 00:59 | Dinosaur DNA realism, Jurassic Park misconceptions | | 01:41 | AI’s critical role in de-extinction/genomics | | 03:47–04:59 | Quantum computing’s future in synthetic biology | | 06:56 | AI for animal conservation, socialization data | | 07:55 | Mammoth project timeline and milestones | | 09:19 | Artificial wombs, surrogacy in de-extinction | | 13:08–15:52 | Launching direwolf project, public/media reaction | | 17:43–21:19 | Importance of keystone species, predator effects | | 22:20–23:23 | Human-driven megafauna extinction, Colossal’s focus | | 27:24 | Investigating mysteries: mummies, cryptids, DNA | | 28:49 | Why dinosaur resurrection is truly impossible | | 32:15–37:00 | Human genome tech, embryo screening, ethics | | 37:02–39:18 | Elephant herpes vaccine—practical conservation wins | | 39:41–42:37 | Abundance, synthetic biology, future directions |
Conclusion
Ben Lamm’s conversation on Digital Social Hour is a passionate, fast-paced journey through the science, ambition, and challenges of bringing extinct species back to life. The discussion is forthright about scientific limitations (no Jurassic Park scenarios here), the necessity of AI and future quantum computing, and the profound conservation and cultural stakes. Colossal’s open, cross-disciplinary approach, willingness to learn from “crazy” ideas, and commitment to transparency have placed them at the center of both intense scientific scrutiny and popular excitement.
To join the Colossal journey, follow their updates on Twitter/X and YouTube, and contribute questions/feedback—Lamm emphasizes public engagement is crucial to their mission.