Betting Genius: 25-0 Record EXPOSED! I ZACH HIRSCH DSH #775

Summary

Digital Social Hour - Episode: "Betting Genius: 25-0 Record EXPOSED! I ZACH HIRSCH DSH #775"

Host: Sean Kelly
Guest: Zach Hirsch
Release Date: October 2, 2024

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Introduction

In this compelling episode of Digital Social Hour, host Sean Kelly sits down with Zach Hirsch, a maestro in the world of sports betting boasting an unparalleled 25-0 record. Throughout their conversation, Zach delves into his methodologies, insights into various sports, and his perspectives on some of the industry's most influential figures. This summary captures the essence of their discussion, highlighting key points, notable quotes, and the trajectory of their engaging dialogue.

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Zach Hirsch: The Undefeated Betting Prodigy

Zach's Impressive Record

Zach begins by proudly stating his impeccable betting record: "I'm the most accurate sports handicapper ever recorded by any metric that I've seen" (00:34). His achievements span multiple sports, including an undefeated streak in Super Bowls and college football, totaling 25-0 in his predictions.

Broad Sports Expertise

Beyond football, Zach excels in the NBA, boxing, and other sports. He emphasizes his versatility: "NBA, I would say NFL, college, boxing are the absolute strongest" (02:02). This broad expertise underscores his deep understanding and analytical approach to sports betting.

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In-Depth Analysis of Major Sports

Basketball Insights

Steph Curry Over Michael Jordan

A significant portion of their discussion centers around basketball, where Zach asserts, "Steph Curry is the greatest offensive player of all time" (02:11), even surpassing Michael Jordan in offensive impact. He attributes Curry's success to his unparalleled shooting abilities and the "gravity that it provides on the court" (02:14).

Kevin Durant and the GOAT Debate

Zach ranks Kevin Durant as "the second greatest scorer of all time" (03:01), based on his efficiency and adaptability across positions. When debating the greatest of all time (GOAT) in basketball, Zach resolutely declares, "Michael Jordan's the greatest player to ever touch basketball" (31:42), emphasizing Jordan's unmatched performance in finals series.

Best Teams of All Time

The conversation shifts to team dynamics, where Zach lauds the 2017 Golden State Warriors as the greatest team: "The 2017 warriors are 96 bulls" (33:20). He contrasts them with other legendary teams, underscoring their dominance and strategic prowess.

Boxing Perspectives

Current Boxing Scene

Zach expresses optimism about boxing's resurgence, crediting figures like Turki Ala Sheikh and events in Saudi Arabia for revitalizing the sport: "Boxing is going to be in its best place. It's been since like the 90s" (06:56).

Controversies and Integrity

Delving into controversies, Zach discusses Ryan Garcia's positive steroid tests, expressing skepticism: "I would want to see an entire full-length investigation done on Victor and VADA for sure if I was a boxer" (08:14). He emphasizes the importance of integrity and transparency in the sport.

GOAT in Boxing

When asked about the greatest boxer of all time, Zach chooses Muhammad Ali, acknowledging his legendary status: "The boxing GOAT is Muhammad Ali" (10:24). He also praises Roy Jones Jr. as "the best boxer I've seen" (10:27), highlighting his versatility and dominance across weight classes.

Mixed Martial Arts (UFC) Insights

Jon Jones as the GOAT

Zach hails Jon Jones as the greatest MMA fighter, citing his unparalleled skills and dominance: "Jon Jones is the baddest man to ever live" (16:49). Despite controversies surrounding steroids, Zach maintains that Jones's legacy remains formidable.

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Betting Strategies and Methodologies

Analytical Approach

Zach credits his success to a combination of innate talent and rigorous analysis: "A lot of it can be attributed to my eidetic memory and the fact that I love sports" (05:19). His background includes attending the MIT Sloan Sports Analyst Conference and serving as a Division One coaching intern, providing him with a robust foundation in sports analytics.

Predictive Success in College Football

Highlighting his prowess, Zach mentions his flawless record in college football predictions: "I'm 25-0" (04:49). His strategic insights have allowed him to accurately forecast outcomes in high-stakes games consistently.

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Perspectives on Emerging Sports and Personal Endeavors

Power Slap Controversy

Zach shares his reservations about Power Slap, questioning its legitimacy as a sport of skill: "There’s no defense. You just kind of sit there and get slapped" (21:36). He criticizes the involvement of women and overweight participants, despite acknowledging its viral success.

Upcoming Projects and Collaborations

Towards the episode's conclusion, Zach teases his upcoming projects, including a podcast titled Pac Man Jones and potential collaborations with notable figures like Lamar Odom and Caitlyn Jenner: "It's really become, like, a really safe space for our guests" (35:25).

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Notable Quotes

• Zach Hirsch on Steph Curry:
  "Steph Curry is the greatest offensive player of all time... Steph Curry's impact on the offensive end is greater than any basketball player in NBA history."
  - 02:11

• Zach Hirsch on Michael Jordan:
  "Michael Jordan's the greatest player to ever touch basketball."
  - 31:42

• Zach Hirsch on Jon Jones:
  "Jon Jones is the baddest man to ever live."
  - 16:49

• Zach Hirsch on Boxing's Future:
  "Boxing is going to be in its best place. It's been since like the 90s."
  - 06:56

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Conclusion

This episode of Digital Social Hour offers an in-depth look into Zach Hirsch's unmatched success in sports betting, his analytical strategies, and his nuanced perspectives on various sports. Zach's insights provide valuable takeaways for both sports enthusiasts and aspiring bettors, making this conversation a must-listen for those looking to understand the intricacies of sports analytics and betting excellence.

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Timestamp Guide:

• 00:34
• 02:02
• 02:11
• 02:14
• 03:01
• 31:42
• 33:20
• 06:56
• 08:14
• 10:24
• 10:27
• 16:49
• 05:19
• 04:49
• 21:36
• 35:25

Note: Links to specific timestamps are for organizational purposes and would typically lead to the corresponding sections in the podcast player.

Transcript

[A]

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[B]

You bet on Power Slap?

[C]

Power slap? No, no, no.

[B]

I go to the events. It's fun. Have you been?

[C]

Okay? I have not been. A lot of respect for Dana's business acumen and all his ideas and stuff. You just kind of sit there and get slapped. So it doesn't seem like a sport of skill or anything like that.

[D]

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[B]

All right, guys, we made it happen.

[D]

Finally.

[B]

We've got Mystic Zach here. Thanks for coming on, man.

[C]

No problem.

[B]

We're talking for like five years on ig.

[C]

Yeah, since I was junior in high school.

[B]

Yeah. It's been cool to see your evolution, dude. I mean, you've been nailing these sports picks. You're super tapped in with the celebrities. Congrats on all you've done.

[C]

Thank you. Thank you. Just starting.

[B]

Hell yeah. I love that attitude.

[C]

Yeah, I would say that's accurate. I'm the most accurate sports handicapper ever recorded by any metric that I've seen.

[B]

Right, because you're undefeated in Super Bowls and you got great records in other sports.

[C]

Yeah. Undefeated college football, 250 national championships, super bowl, undefeated as well.

[B]

Wow. That's unheard of, man.

[C]

Yeah, absolutely.

[B]

And NBA, you do well too, right?

[C]

Yeah, I do well. NBA, I would say NFL, college, boxing are the absolute strongest.

[B]

Yeah. Speaking of NBA, I know you're. You're a Warriors fan, right? You like some of those guys?

[C]

I like some of those guys. When they were going against the Cavaliers, I was definitely supporting them.

[B]

Okay. What do you think of Steph Curry?

[C]

Steph Curry is the greatest offensive player of all time.

[B]

Wow.

[C]

His gravity that it provides on the court, unmatched. He helps his teammates more than anyone. He's the best off ball player of all time, the greatest shooter of all time, the most underrated Finisher at the basket ever. The best free throw shooter of all time. Steph Curry's impact on the offensive end is greater than any basketball player in NBA history.

[B]

So you got him over Jordan offensively?

[C]

Yes.

[B]

Because Jordan averaged what, 35 some seasons?

[C]

Yeah. Better score. Not as impactful offensively to me, because.

[B]

If you're factoring assists and steals, I'm.

[C]

Factoring in the, the gravity that he creates. The fact that he can stand 30ft away from the basket and command two or three people to come at him. The fact that he's the greatest off ball player ever. The way he screens his teammates, he's. He's more impactful in the offensive end than anyone ever.

[B]

Wow. What do you think of Kevin Durant?

[C]

Kevin Durant is the second greatest scorer of all time.

[B]

Holy crap. Yeah, that's, that's quite a statement. What are you basing that off of?

[C]

Points per game efficiency? The fact that he's 6 foot 11 and plays like a point guard. He can shoot it over anyone. I think he would survive in any era. He's the, the second greatest scorer ever behind Michael Jordan.

[B]

Okay, who do you have as third?

[C]

Oh, man. Third. Kobe.

[B]

Okay.

[C]

Kobe. Respect. Yeah, I think Kobe deserves respect for sure. That's a great question. Third. I always think about one and two, but I like, seldom do I think about third.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

And obviously LeBron, when it comes to any basketball skill is like top five.

[B]

He is number one in points, right?

[C]

Yeah. Like there, Kareem probably three, maybe Kobe four. But yeah, LeBron is so good all around. There's like not a single skill in basketball that he's not one of the best ever at. And I don't think you can say that about any athlete in any other sport.

[B]

I love it. You betting on the NBA Finals?

[C]

I'm not, I gotta, I'm at Celtics. I got Celtics. I'm thinking Celtics and six.

[B]

Wow. What made you think the Celtics over the Mavs?

[C]

All the idiots picking the Mavs. No, I. I think they match up well. You know, there are two matchups earlier. The Celtics won. It seems like the, the Celtics are best suited to guard K. Porzingis coming back. But the Mavericks, I mean, to get there, you know. Great.

[B]

Have you been betting the whole playoffs?

[C]

Making picks? The whole playoffs? You know, I mean, this was like, especially out of the east, the easiest to ever predict. I mean, a monkey could have picked the Celtics. Right. But I think the, the Timberwolves beating the Nuggets was, was really surprising.

[B]

That was shocking. I mean, the Mavericks beat them in five, it should have been four.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

If Lively didn't get injured.

[C]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Mavericks, Luca, Kyrie, Lively, P.J. washington at the deadline. They've been making great moves all year and they have the best player in the NBA.

[B]

Oh, yeah. What's your best sport?

[C]

I would say best sport for predicting would be college football. I'm 25 0.

[B]

Crap.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

25 0.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

And is that the title game you bet on?

[C]

That's been every title game since. Since I started picking. College Football Playoff, SEC championship, a lot of ranked matchups.

[B]

Damn. 25 and 0. That's. That's the best record I've ever heard. I mean, you haven't lost.

[C]

No, I still haven't lost yet. I had Michigan all the way from week three and had them in the Natty and over Alabama as well.

[B]

What do you think makes you so good? Because most sports better lose money, right?

[C]

Yeah, I think it's a combination of things. I think a lot of it can be attributed to my eidetic memory and the fact that I love sports. It's all I've been doing since I was 4 or 5 years old. I have a lot of analytics that I follow, even some that I think I'm going to work on coming out with. I was able to go to the MIT Sloan Sports Analyst Conference when I was 17, learn a little bit more, but I think the combination of memory really knowing the sport. I was the youngest Division One coaching intern in the country with FAU when I was 16. So I know football real well. And I grew up in boxing as well, in the. In the gym and everything like that.

[B]

That's impressive. What do you think of the boxing scene right now?

[D]

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[C]

I love it. I love it. I think it's on the up and up. And obviously we had a period where Jake, Paul and KSI and Logan and all these different guys had to really provide a lot of relevance for Gen Z and Gen Alpha. But now that we've got Saudi Arabia and your excellency Turki Ala Sheikh putting on these great fights, I think boxing is going to be in its best place. It's been since like the 90s.

[B]

Yeah. Did you bet on the Haney Garcia fight?

[C]

Oh, yeah, I had Ryan.

[B]

Oh, you had Ryan?

[C]

I had Ryan plus 550.

[B]

He was a heavy underdog.

[C]

Yeah, yeah. Five and a half to one underdog. Ryan's a cool guy, but they, they split in the amateurs. Three. Three and, and the pros having the, the power advantage is, is a big difference. You know, smaller gloves, everything like that. So I thought it was like a 60, 40 fight for Ryan and he was a huge underdog. Wow.

[B]

I mean, now with the steroid stuff though, it's looking interesting. I don't know if that's a, if that's real or whatever, but.

[C]

Yeah, I, I would strongly believe that it's not.

[B]

Really.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

Because they did two tests and it came back positive, Right?

[C]

Yeah. But look who's doing the test.

[B]

Who did it?

[C]

Vada, who's a privately owned. Sorry, privately owned organization, not government owned. They are very close with Victor Conte, who's Devin Haney's strength and conditioning coach and who's also heavily involved in balco, which was the Barry Bond steroid scandal.

[B]

Wow.

[C]

So when I look at Victor Conte and I see him providing boxer strength and conditioning advice for upwards of $100,000, I get a little bit suspicious. And also with the fact that he's so close with Vada and all this stuff. But Ryan comes out, I know they submitted a couple of his supplements for testing and they both came back that they did have Austrian in it. And, you know, cross contamination happens. The factories make it all in the same labs and stuff, so. Factory. So I don't know. I'm very, very skeptical about that. And the fact that Devin Haney had a sports center interview lined up the day after that came out even more weird.

[B]

Yeah, that is interesting. I doubt Ryan would do that. I mean, his whole life he didn't. Why would he feel the need to.

[C]

Do it now two days before the fight. That doesn't even for a sarm. That's not even. That wouldn't be the best use case for it at all. I mean you would have cycled it, you know, months before that. I know Derek More plays more. I think you had him on the show. He did a really good breakdown on it as well as the, the chem, you know, the chemistry side of it and things like that. But my boxing point of view that there's a lot of shady stuff going on and if I was a boxer I wouldn't enroll in VATA testing. I would outright refuse, which I think Tank is now doing.

[B]

Ye.

[C]

And the only way I would work with Vada as a boxer I know Tank came out and said that he's no longer going to work with them would be if the government stepped in and oversaw it or if a commission governing body, something like that stepped in to absolutely clear them of any collusion or corruption or anything like that. Looked into Victor Conte and his relationship with them and really cleared it all up because it seems like as of now they're not being put any. Under any. They're not being put under any public pressure and a lot of people are coming at Ryan Garcia instead of defending him and aren't analyzing the relationship that Victor has with Devin and the race of Victor has with Vada. And also they're denying the, the fact that the supplements came back contaminated. So it's all very suspicious. I would want to see an entire full length investigation done on Victor and Vada for sure if I was a boxer and thinking about enrolling in their testing.

[B]

Yeah, they're making Ryan do a hair test now too.

[C]

Yeah, well, and he's. I'm confident he'll come out vindicated.

[B]

Yeah. Let's see what happens. Who do you have as the goat for boxing?

[C]

The boxing goat. The greatest of all time is Muhammad Ali.

[B]

Wow.

[C]

Yeah. Floyd's the best. Ali is the greatest. But actually the best boxer I've seen is Roy Jones Jr. Wow. Yeah.

[B]

That's a hot take.

[C]

Yeah. Prime for prime. I just, it's. He's the best I've ever watched.

[B]

Damn. So just purely eye test, no statistics.

[C]

Yeah, I test wise. I mean the fact that he went to heavy, I mean he was undefeated and went all the way from I believe junior, middleweight or middleweight, all the way up to heavyweight and won the heavyweight title. I mean I just know that Roy Jones Jr. In his prime at middleweight, super middleweight, light heavyweight, that there's no man that ever could have come close and I don't think I can say that about any other boxer.

[B]

So maybe Tyson in his prime.

[C]

No, no, I would have taken a couple guys over him.

[B]

Wow.

[C]

Tyson, George Foreman. Yeah.

[B]

Okay.

[C]

Evander Holyfield beat him twice. Would have been tougher, I guess pre Buster Douglas. But yeah, there's some bad matchups. I feel that Tyson. But, but I think Mike would beat pretty much any of the current heavyweights for sure. In his prime.

[B]

Yeah. I was upset he dropped out recently.

[C]

Yeah, I think it's delayed.

[B]

Oh, it's delayed.

[C]

It's delayed. Which. It almost feels like a dropout. Right. Because I think it's going to be like, I think they're planning to November for the fight, so it's a long delay.

[B]

Who you got on that one?

[C]

I've got Jake by knockout.

[B]

Whoa. You think he's going to knock out Tyson?

[C]

I, I think Tyson obviously such a legendary champion, but I mean that was 30 years ago.

[B]

Right.

[C]

So I think Jake would. Is going to catch him with a big right hand and knock him out.

[B]

Damn. Yeah, he's almost 60 now.

[C]

Right.

[B]

He's getting up there.

[C]

So I believe a fight time movie. 58 years old.

[B]

Holy crap. Yeah. That's old for boxing.

[C]

Yeah, it's old for any sport, but especially boxing and Tyson, I mean one of the most ferocious, ruthless punchers in the history of the sport. What he did to Michael Spinks and so many other guys and he looked great in the Roy Jones Jr. Fight not that long ago. So I mean he could come out and shock the world. I just, I just don't see him having the, the punch resistance to take a prime 27 year old. Jake who. It's really hard. I've seen it in sparring glass five years.

[B]

Yeah, we'll see what happens. You bet on UFC also?

[C]

Yeah, yeah, I do a lot of UFC picks.

[B]

Who you got? McGregor and Chandler.

[C]

Prime. McGregor would beat him 10 out of 10 times.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

You know, it's such a hard fight to handicap. I would go Chandler.

[B]

Okay.

[C]

Just based on, you know, the, the partying and the leg break and everything like that. But it's hard to envision, you know, Conor losing to a guy that much lower and it would be sad. Yeah, it would be.

[B]

I mean, he hasn't won in what, seven years.

[C]

The Cowboys Rooney fight was his last win in 2020, right before the pandemic. So four years. Yeah, but it's one win the last seven years.

[B]

Yeah, but that's not even like a, a prime cowboy. That's.

[C]

No, it Was like a nothing fight. Yeah. I mean, he looked good, but. Yeah, I agree.

[B]

Damn. Yeah, he's. He's fallen hard, man. I. I miss him in his prime.

[C]

Yeah. Maybe he'll come back and prove everyone wrong.

[B]

I hope so.

[C]

I hope so, too.

[B]

Like, that'd be awesome.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

Because UFC needs someone like that.

[C]

Yeah, absolutely. I think the sports needs someone's like that. And I know he wants to do boxing 100%. I know he's watching these Saudi fights and the Jake and the Tyson and the Ryan Garcia. I know. I think I wouldn't be surprised if eventually they did. Him versus Ryan Garcia in Saudi Arabia.

[B]

Boxing, well, the bag in boxing's higher, and then you take less damage.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

Ufc, you're breaking bones.

[C]

Yeah. It seems like there's bigger name. I mean, of course, besides McGregor. It seems like the bigger names are. Are now in boxing.

[B]

Yeah. Even UFC guys are switching over, right?

[C]

Yeah, was ufc. I feel like they've lost a lot of their stars.

[B]

Like, yeah, Usman switched over.

[C]

Yeah. Usman's, you know, not. Not quite, you know, the same level. And even then, he's never sold that many. Besides, the Masvidal was on with him. Nate Diaz is boxing now. Masvidal and Israel Adesani lost. So I feel like the Ryan Garcia's, Jake Paul's KSI US 6 Furies are like, becoming bigger stars.

[B]

Yeah, they're making more.

[C]

Yeah, they're definitely making a lot more trades. That Fury, I think, just made 100 million.

[B]

What, Tyson or the Tyson Fury? Oh, off that last fight he lost?

[C]

Yeah, against Alexander Usyk, Saudi Arabia.

[B]

They paid him 100 mil for that.

[C]

They're saying Fury made 100 million. Usyk made 50 mil.

[B]

Oh, he made more even though he lost.

[C]

Yeah. And they're saying it sold like 1 1/2 million pay per views.

[B]

At what price?

[C]

I don't know. A lot of it was in England, so I think it's cheaper over there. But I know they also got like 40 million in advertising.

[B]

Damn.

[C]

I had to guess they took a bath. But I think it's. It makes perfect sense for them to advertise all their tourism destinations. And the fact that, you know, it's. It's a great place to. I mean, I went to Saudi. I had a great time.

[B]

I've never been out there. You like it, though?

[C]

Yeah, I had a great time. And I went to Abu Dhabi as well. Dubai and. Yeah, and then Saudi. I. Best food I've ever had at the Four Seasons there. Seriously.

[B]

In Saudi.

[C]

All right, so I Mean, Ronaldo lives there, so, you know, the food's pretty good.

[B]

He got four season.

[C]

He got a bag. It was, I was in the lobby and with, I was with Jake and the team and, you know, the team and yeah, Kevin Hart was there doing a comedy show. Ronald was on the top floor. It was crazy.

[B]

That's crazy. Who do you have as your goat for the ufc?

[C]

I would say Jon Jones.

[B]

Same.

[C]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Jon Jones is. If you're going off of the most unstoppable, it's, it's Jon Jones, you know, at his peak against Shogun and Glover. And the second, you know, DC fight, I mean, he's just, I don't know how anyone could come close to him at his peak.

[B]

Especially that weight class where one punch you could get knocked out, and he's been able to just evade all of that.

[C]

Yeah, well, I mean, the, the way he uses reach and optimize his length, his kicks, his elbows, his. So creative. Had great inside fighting, terrific grappling, just great eyes. Everything you could want in a mixed martial arts fighter. But is his legacy somewhat diminished because of the steroids?

[B]

It is, yeah. Can't deny that.

[C]

Right, right. So I, you know, did you take him off the goat list and put someone like George St. Pierre at the top because of that? You know, that would be the discussion.

[B]

If it wasn't for that, it'd be unanimous, I think.

[C]

Oh, yeah. 100, no doubt. And if John, I mean, if he goes out and defends his heavyweight belt a couple of times, it's like, you know, harder than I am. Goat status and combat sports, because of his dominance in a sport that's evolved so much, and, you know, if I, in my opinion, if you put every man in the history of the world in a room, I think Jon Jones will come out last.

[B]

That's wild.

[C]

He's the baddest man to ever live.

[B]

So I love that you've been following this WNBA drama.

[C]

Yeah, yeah, I've been following. I don't like it for the sport, and I actually went to a, a Fever game, you know, Caitlin Clark against la, and I don't like it for the sport. I, I, I think a lot of it's getting politicized, and I don't think that's the route to go. I would like to see it be about the sport. Right. Like Asia Wilson here in Vegas. She's the best player in the league by a mile. She's averaging like 29 a game and short quarters as well, and no one really talks about it. Because everyone's talking about all this and seems like the girls are, I don't know, like, getting real personal and dragging each other to the floor. So I would. And if you're gonna do that, I think the teammates have to stick up for one another. Needs to be an enforcer. Like Draymond said, you know, the girl that dragged Caitlyn down should have gotten hit for sure by one of Caitlyn's teammates. So I didn't like how no one came to her.

[B]

No one.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

That's your prize star. Like, you should be defending it, right?

[C]

Yeah. Especially, you know, I'm sure she's a nice girl. I didn't like that. So. Yeah, I think if you're gonna do the hard fouls, I don't have problem with that. The teammates have to step in and. And make sure that they think twice.

[B]

Absolutely. It was interesting to see LeBron talk about it because he said that happened to him too, when he came in the league.

[C]

Yeah, absolutely. You know, you're always gonna have a target on your back when. But the end of the day, Caitlin Clark's the reason they're on charter flights, right? I mean, they went from spirit to charter flights. That's just the. That's the truth of the matter. You know, she's. I mean, she kind of bossed up all their lives, so I think they should really be appreciative instead of so jealous.

[B]

But I think they should be because the WNBA hasn't have it a single profitable year.

[C]

No.

[B]

And definitely they're on track to, like, do that in a few years.

[C]

And you know, the other rookies as well, Angel, Reese, you know, she's got celebrities coming out to the games and stuff, and Cameron Brink. But yeah, I mean, Caitlin's the. She's the one who. Who made that change happen.

[B]

Absolutely. You got a pod with Lamar Odom.

[C]

Yeah. And Caitlyn Jenner.

[B]

Oh, yeah. That's cool. How'd that start?

[C]

Pretty off the wall, guy. I know Steve Marcano, who's a mutual friend with Lamar, had this idea and they call it Keeping up with Sports. And obviously, when you hear me, Caitlyn, Jen and Lamar Odom on a podcast, you're like, I wonder, that would work, right? You're trying to picturing the chemistry or whatever. But I. It's an honor to be working with two. Two legends of the sport. And Lamar, an Olympian, sixth man of the year, two time NBA champion alongside Kobe Bryant. Caitlin, formerly Bruce, decathlete, world record holder, drafted the NBA. I don't know if you knew that Bruce Jenner was drafted the NBA.

[B]

That's crazy.

[C]

Yeah. College football player. So get, you know, sharing knowledge with. With two athletes like that and who have lived such crazy lives. Lamar obviously had the. The traumatic brain injury and 12 strokes, six heart attacks.

[B]

I saw the bed. It's in the haunted museum here in Vegas.

[C]

It's in the haunted museum.

[B]

Zach Bagan's museum.

[C]

Wow. I hope Lamar gets paid off that.

[B]

Yeah, they have it, and they leverage Lamar's story when.

[C]

Okay. All right. Well, at least I hope Lamar gets a little. And Caitlyn, obviously being, you know, decathlete, record holder, Wheaties box star, Kardashian Jenner's. I mean, you know, her daughters and woman of the year. Like, what kind of a, you know, who has a crazier resume than that? So we had Sugar Ray Leonard on the first episode, and he went really deep and even opened up about, like, his childhood abuse.

[B]

Wow.

[C]

Yeah. So I think it's really become, like, a really safe space for our guests, and it has a therapeutic fuel and one where, you know, people feel comfortable opening up with everything that's, you know, been going on in their careers and childhoods and things. We had Steve O. On Bryce hall, so I'm really excited for. For that to come out, for sure.

[B]

That's a fun show, dude. Yeah. These fighters, man, they. They have a lot of trauma. I saw Sean Strickland on Theo Vaughn.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

He was, like, crying on there, and it's good to have a platform they could speak about.

[C]

Yeah, absolutely. A lot of these shows are, you know, go for gotcha moments or, you know, really try to make you feel comfortable to get a clip.

[B]

And.

[C]

But there's not a lot of uplifting or, you know, really true journalism. You know, the integrity is. Is getting lost.

[B]

It's gone. It's been done. Mainstream is just about clips and what. What can I get that got to say?

[C]

Yeah, and. And, you know, you'll get the clips from people opening up, and, you know, TMZ leaked the show's announcement, and they grabbed that clip, and obviously, it was a time where he was vulnerable, but I think he appreciated that he had the platform to speak on that and be comfortable and not have people make jokes. And then 50 Cent comes out and said it was Diddy that day, but what are you gonna do? That's the Internet, right?

[B]

Oh, man, that Diddy stuff is crazy.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

Holy crap. We can't even talk on that. We'll get canceled. But. Oh, do you bet on power slap?

[C]

Power slap no, no, no. Do you, do you work for Power Slap?

[B]

I go to the events. It's fun. Have you been?

[C]

Okay, I have not been.

[B]

You gotta come. There's a month after UFC 302.

[C]

4. I think I have a, A lot of respect for Dana's business acumen and all his ideas and stuff. I, I have never seen it with Power Slap. I don't quite understand it still, really, there's no defense. You just kind of sit there and get slapped. So it doesn't seem like a sport of skill or anything like that. I hate that women are doing it and getting knocked out. The fat guys are pretty funny, though. Yeah, I like seeing the fat guys knocked out. But I guess I understand the, the virality. I know it does really well on Rumble, I believe. And I know they're doing an event in Saudi, so I, I, I, from that perspective, I get it.

[B]

You got offered a million dollars to do it. Would you do it?

[C]

Hell, yeah. Oh, who am I going against?

[B]

Jake Paul.

[C]

Oh, well. Get knocked out for a million dollars. I get knocked out for a million dollars.

[B]

Ok. You're rational about it.

[C]

Yeah. You know, probably get a few viral clips, you know, get a lot of clout.

[B]

Yeah, yeah. That would break the Internet. I mean, who was that guy that got, Didn't Bryce hall get knocked out?

[C]

I, I know Logan knocked someone out.

[B]

Logan knocked someone out.

[C]

Yeah. Did you see that when Logan lined the guy up with a slot?

[B]

Oh, thank you. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. He got. Why?

[C]

Yeah, yeah. Definitely was not fake, I'll tell you that. I've talked to Logan about that. That was real.

[B]

Damn.

[C]

Yeah, yeah.

[B]

He came out later saying it was faked. Staged.

[C]

I might say that too, if I got knocked out like that, but, yeah.

[B]

I wouldn't want to admit that, ever.

[C]

Yeah. So I think he did a good job, Cap. I know Slap for Cash is like, you know, he's doing good Instagram and stuff like that, so I guess it worked.

[B]

What else are you working on?

[C]

My show, Pac Man Jones. Pack and Zach, you know, we covered football, you know, every single week. And we've continued with it, you know, covering sports and culture and going out to fights and, you know, he's someone that I consider a really good friend. Off camera.

[B]

Nice.

[C]

And a true partner. And he's someone that gets very misrepresented in the media and vilified earlier this year, was arrested on September 11th. Airplane. Yeah. So he, he, obviously people, you know, say a lot of bad things about him and, you know, I'm sure he's made mistakes in his past, but he's a great mentor. He's adopted his late teammate son. And he was on a flight, he had bought two flights. He was getting ready to do Monday night football and his charger didn't work. Charge his tablet. He had a study from on that football. So he said the fight then didn't miss. Can. Can I change seats? So no, sorry. It wasn't a miss, it was. It was a man. And he kind of ignored it. Whatever. And he comes back around, he's like, I'm gonna have to switch seats. You know, I gotta charge my tablet. They go, well, if you switch seats, we're gonna have to turn the plane around. He goes, what? I just want to change seats. They go, no, we're turning the plane around. He goes, all right. Turn the plane around. So they turn the plane around, he walks off the tarmac, police tackle him. What, they charge him with terrorism? No, they said he was intoxicated when he wasn't drinking. They. He kept asking to do breathalyzer. They wouldn't give him a breathalyzer. He said the bar was closed even if I wanted to drink.

[B]

Holy crap. What airline was this?

[C]

I. I don't know. I. That's a good question. We. I think it was United. It was United.

[B]

Damn, that's a shame.

[C]

And. And I know all the charges got expunged and I don't know if like.

[B]

So he missed that.

[C]

Oh yeah. And. And yeah, definitely. You know, and it's just like another case of someone. He's also constantly getting like go at it in public and people trying to get a reaction out of him. This is someone who's, you know, like I said, adopted his late teammates, children. As a mentor in his community has brought me to places that I never would have been to and just an all around great guy.

[B]

So I played in a. In Floyd celebrity basketball game with him.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

And he was, he was sticking up for me, dude. To be honest, he was a good dude.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

You know, he was nice at ball too.

[C]

Yeah. Oh yeah. He was McDonald's All American.

[B]

Oh, I didn't know that.

[C]

Yeah, he was dunking at 14.

[B]

Damn.

[C]

He's only five nine now. So I don't know how tall he was then, but he was dunking in game and stuff. And I know his team was Georgia state champion. They went undefeated his freshman year. Yeah. So I think it's one of the. Part of the best teams ever. I mean, Pacman is such a good athlete. He could have. Obviously he was a great professional Football player, all pro pro ball, number five pick. But he could have been NBA player. He's now really good at golf. I know he's want to talk about that, but he is.

[B]

I got to get into golf.

[C]

I'm sure he could have been a MLB player. I'm sure he could have been professional soccer player. He's just that one of those guys. He ran a 42 5. Like he's just such a ridiculous athlete that, you know, no matter what, he could have been pro in anything.

[B]

Were you an athlete growing up?

[C]

Probably pretty similar to Pac Man.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

No.

[B]

You didn't play anything?

[C]

No, I played sports growing up, but you know, not at a. Listen, you played at a college professional level, I would have did it.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

No, I didn't have your height. I didn't have pack speed and. No, I, I played football, basketball growing up. You know, whatever was around, I was always keeping busy playing sports.

[B]

We'll have to hoop one of these days.

[C]

Yeah, we'll have to hoop. I, you know, but I at least want pack on my team.

[B]

We'll get pack.

[C]

All right? We'll get pack.

[B]

We'll run. We'll find two others and make a solid run out of.

[C]

All right. All right. All right. Are you a power forward or what?

[B]

Yeah, power forward, Yeah. I play in the lifetime leagues out here.

[C]

Okay. Oh, so you're like serious wreck.

[B]

We just won the chip, bro. Yeah.

[C]

Now. All right.

[B]

I'm not bad.

[C]

Are you like inside getting rebounds?

[B]

Fast break layups. I get two steals a game. I get 10 rebounds.

[C]

All right.

[B]

Yeah, I'm decent.

[C]

All right. Pretty decent. Did you play college?

[B]

No, I did track in high school. I could have did track in. In college. I ran a 440 mile. Wow. Yeah.

[C]

440 mile.

[B]

Yeah, which is decent.

[C]

It's not like pretty fast.

[B]

It's not D1 level though. No, but I mean one, you need a 420.

[C]

Wow.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

That's crazy.

[B]

Now there's people running sub four. It's like.

[C]

Yeah, that I know. Yeah.

[B]

People are so athletic these days.

[C]

How fast is the Kenyan guy, the marathon time?

[B]

Oh my God. He's running a mile 26 times. Under four minutes every time. Imagine.

[C]

I mean, that's like the, like no one talks about. That's like one of the craziest sports accomplishments ever.

[B]

No, it is to do that. It's insane. Like imagine running a four minute mile 26 times.

[C]

No, I can't imagine it. I can't imagine it. And like the athletes that aren't in football and basketball don't get, like, looked at as much, but, like, I mean, Usain Bolt never lost a race in the Olympics.

[B]

Yep.

[C]

Literally one gold every single time.

[B]

I. Justin Gatlin on.

[C]

Yeah. Michael Phelps had, like, four times as many go medals as anyone else ever.

[B]

Like, 26.

[C]

These guys are ridiculous. Yeah. 26.

[B]

Nuts. What do you think the hardest sport to go pro in is?

[C]

Hardest sport to go pro and is maybe. Ooh. I'm probably. Well, like, major sport is probably baseball major.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

Yeah. I would say baseball would require the most skill.

[B]

Okay.

[C]

But it's probably something that you have to pick up when you're, you know, a young person, because football, I mean, if you're a good enough athlete, you can pick it up real late. You know, like, Ziggy Ansa picked it up, I think 19. And basketball requires a little bit more skill, too. Football, you obviously need the toughness for. But I would say baseball requires the most skill.

[B]

I would say basketball for me.

[C]

Really?

[B]

Just because you look at how long these guys last in the league on average.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

It's like two years max.

[C]

Yeah. Yeah, it's definitely. But, you know, like, Hakeem Olajuwon was a soccer player. Converts to basketball, I think, back then pretty quickly.

[B]

Easier to get in the NBA now. It's like you have to be. You have to shoot now, even if you're a big.

[C]

Yeah, that's true. I think Hakeem would be the league's best player. Right.

[B]

Right now.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

Wow.

[C]

Yeah. Best defender of all time. Incredible post game. Carried his team to two finals runs. Post Jordan, you know, he's playing baseball. I think he had games for, like, 30 plus points, seven blocks, four steals. Jeez. Yeah. Came probably the most underrated superstar of all time.

[B]

You got Hakeem over Shaq.

[C]

Right. Together, the two of them, you know, probably in Kareem.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

You know, all three of them are the three. The three best bigs ever.

[B]

Okay.

[C]

But, yeah, I mean, Hakeem just, like, unbelievable. And though I. I would say the only person, NBA history, to truly carry his team to a finals victory.

[B]

Hakeem.

[C]

Hakeem is. And everyone says Dirk. And if, like, if you look at the roster, you would think that, but those guys were shooting lights out in the Finals. Like, he. And he was great. He had help. Like Jason Terry was going off Sean Marion, Jason Kidd. But Hakeem didn't have anyone. Like, it was like Otis Dort. Yeah. I don't even think. No, I don't. I don't even know if Kenny Smith did play in that first finals and I think 95 around there. He didn't play well because, I mean, I've looked at the stats. I think Otis Thorpe was the second best player. 12 points a game. Like 40 from the field. Like carry this team against Ewing.

[B]

So Damn, that's interesting. So you study a lot of the stats?

[C]

Yeah, absolutely. I mean, I was like, I kind of nerdy.

[B]

Yeah, I like seeing the points after every game.

[C]

Yeah, I go like full analytics and like, I mean, I don't go like Raptor and Vorp and all that, but.

[B]

I don't even know what that is.

[C]

Oh yeah, that's like. If you really want to get geeky, you talk about Raptor and Vort, but player efficiency rating and you know, true shooting percentage, efg, stuff like that.

[B]

How does true shooting percentage work?

[C]

They calculate things like the, like assigned value for the shot and also your free throw percentage. And it's like a. Oh, it factors.

[B]

In every single shot.

[C]

Yeah, it's like a. It Especially free throws. Like, so Shaq obviously wouldn't be as good through shooting. And then like Steph Curry's true shooting percentage, like out of this world. Yeah, like consistently. I don't think he's ever been below 56 on a finals run. Like something absolutely ridiculous.

[B]

What's the best metric to measure how skilled a player is in basketball?

[C]

I would say per. No player efficiency rating I think is really like, if you look at the all time highest per seasons, it's like a lot of Michael Jordans. Will Chamberlain's LeBron sneaks in there. I think Steph's 2016 season. So I think that's a pretty good, pretty good indicator. And that's not the only reason why Michael Jordan's better than LeBron, but it's part of it.

[B]

You got Jordan or LeBron as the GOAT.

[C]

Jordan's the goat.

[B]

Okay. You were confident with that?

[C]

Michael Jordan's the greatest player to ever touch basketball.

[B]

What if Braun wins one or two more?

[C]

Then we might have to, you know, rediscuss this.

[B]

Okay. Yeah, Jordan 6 is just. And if he didn't retire, he would have had seven or eight. So.

[C]

Yeah, I mean, I look at the fact that he's never come close to being outplayed in the final series. I mean, happened maybe in a playoff series once. So 6,06, like stellar performances. And people talk about how he never won before Pippen. Nobody would have won with those teams he had before Pippin. I mean, he was scoring 63 against the Larry Bird Celtics as a kid. My age and losing.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

Like I, I, I, I don't know where people, you know, come up with that. I mean, the guy is the greatest scorer of all time. No doubt. And then Kevin Durant second, but, you know. Second, yeah.

[B]

Damn.

[C]

Scores. Yeah. MJ1, KD2. And then Michael Jordan is the most all defensive first team selections ever as well. And you look at all his final stats and his efficiency and you know, and then the argument a lot of people have is zone defense. Right. For a while was illegal. You know, he couldn't guard players, same way, couldn't double him, Stuff like that. Michael Jordan didn't have the same spacing. Right. Everyone can shoot the three now. You have way more spacing. Imagine Michael Jordan with that spacing. You know, I don't know if MJ would score as many points now, but I think you'd have a lot more assists. He would be the least best player right now. No doubt.

[B]

The fouls back then were nasty, dude. Yeah, I see videos of them.

[C]

Absolutely. Yeah. Bad boy Pistons. Bill Lambert, Dennis Rodman, Hakeem. The greatest defender of all time. Mutombo.

[B]

What's the best team of all time? Draymond Green says it's his warriors in 16.

[C]

He's right.

[B]

17 or 17.

[C]

Yeah. Yeah. The 2017 warriors are 96 bulls. Yeah, for sure.

[B]

Wow. And the 2000 Lakers.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

Because him and Shaq were debating like.

[C]

Who would win, that the warriors would win.

[B]

Really?

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

Wow.

[C]

I mean, you had a 73 win team and you added Kevin Durant.

[B]

Yeah, when you put it like that.

[C]

I mean, that Cavs team was great. And they like wiped him out. I mean, Katie averaged 35 a game in that finals and like 45% from three.

[B]

I mean, he was, they swept him.

[C]

Out of this world. I think the first one was five games, second one was a sweep. But I think they swept him after Kyrie left. But I mean, you're going against LeBron, Kyrie, Kevin Love, like, that's like, like a great historic team.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

Like that would have won the chip this year.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

LeBron back in. I mean, this is eight years ago. I mean, the league's best player. So. Yeah, that warriors team is the greatest team.

[B]

Playing his prime, too.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

Before the ACL terror.

[C]

Yeah. When he was in, you know, great defender, obviously. Probably second greatest shooter ever. Maybe third.

[B]

Yeah. You think he's done though, Clay?

[C]

Yeah, he's done.

[B]

Yeah, I think so.

[C]

It seems like he has a mental block.

[B]

It seems that. Plus he's not the same physically.

[C]

It's just I think Clay would really benefit, like, from Marcel hypnotizing.

[B]

I was just gonna say that.

[C]

Yeah. And I'm serious.

[B]

You should line that up for.

[C]

Listen, if. If someone comes across Clay, I think it would really help.

[B]

Yeah. I mean, he helped Jake Paul with his mental block.

[C]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. And. But you know, Clay, in these big games recently since the ACL seems to. I mean, his nickname used to be game six clay, and last year he goes like one for 12 from three. Game six against the Lakers.

[B]

Like, and this year he had zero points in the. What was that? The playing game or whatever.

[C]

I mean. Yeah, so he's got a. It seems like to me, a mental block in big games right now, which he never had before. So I'm sure it has to do with the injuries, and he's come back from a lot, and, you know, he's done more than enough. So. Yeah, he's a Hall of Fame.

[B]

Four rings is more than. Yeah, yeah, dude, it's been fun. Any. Anything you want to promote or close off with?

[C]

No, I keep. Keep an eye out for keeping up with sports with me. Caitlyn Jenner, Lamar Odom, Pac and Zach coming at you every single week. My partner, Jadakiss. You know, we had KISS in the Ms. For World Star Hip Hop. We might be looking at a reboot potentially, so I got a lot coming up for sure.

[B]

Cool. We'll link it all below. Thanks for coming on, man.

[C]

Thank you.

[B]

Thanks for watching, guys, as always. See you tomorrow.

[A]

Hey, music fans. There are some great concerts headed this way. Don't miss out on all the shows in your favorite venues, like Deftones at Madison Square Garden, Eagles at the Sphere, and Foster, the people at the Ryman Auditorium. Tickets are going fast, so don't wait. Head to livenation.com to get your tickets now. That's livenation. Com.