Bitcoin's Biggest Decade Starts Now | Sean Hagan | DSH #2018

Summary

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Digital Social Hour – Episode Summary

Episode: Bitcoin's Biggest Decade Starts Now | Sean Hagan | DSH #2018
Host: Sean Kelly
Guest: Sean Hagan (Bitcoin Expert)
Date: June 14, 2026

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Episode Overview

This episode dives deep into the state, ethos, and coming decade of Bitcoin with guest Sean Hagan, a prominent figure in Bitcoin media and event organizing. Host Sean Kelly and Hagan discuss the evolution of Bitcoin from a misunderstood asset to a global phenomenon increasingly entangled with national politics and regulation. They explore Hagan's personal journey into Bitcoin, the changing landscape of crypto events, the growing distinctions between Bitcoin and other cryptocurrencies, and the impact of AI on business and personal productivity.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

Bitcoin’s Resilience & Coming of Age

• Hagan reflects on how Bitcoin endured bear markets and a flood of skepticism but “grew up” especially post-COVID, finding its footing as institutions and governments began to treat it as a legitimate reserve asset.

  • “It’s been really interesting to be at a Bitcoin company in a time when Bitcoin’s been kind of growing up.” (42:05)

• The culture and community around Bitcoin, especially at conferences, is “electric,” particularly in times of political change or regulatory threat.

The Role of Conferences & Global Community

• Hagan organizes major Bitcoin conferences that rotate locations in the US and are held globally in Amsterdam, Abu Dhabi, and Hong Kong.

  • “The idea of the conference was to always have the flagship event, which is our US one, on the road.” (07:31)

• He notes different regional flavors:

  • Asia events are highly career/network-oriented, and projected to rival the US flagship event in size. (08:07)

• Highest energy: The Nashville conference post-Trump assassination attempt.

  • “I’ve never been in a room with so much just electricity in the air. Everyone was just amped. It was his first public appearance since it happened.” (39:49, 06:25)

Personal Journey Into Bitcoin

• Hagan’s entry into Bitcoin was rooted in philosophical inquiry and a personal “all-in” moment during early days in college.

  • “I started questioning everything…found Bitcoin because I was questioning what are the properties of money that are conducive to human flourishing…just kind of quickly went all in because I was young and had nothing to lose, frankly.” (13:36)

• First purchase was around $3,500.

  • “It was about $3,500.” (14:09)

• Parental influence: His father played an instrumental role in supporting him to go all-in during the COVID crash.

  • “His advice was, you’re young. If you actually believe in this, what do you really have to lose?” (15:04)

From “Crypto” to “Bitcoin Only”

• Initially, Hagan dabbled in altcoins and DeFi but eventually became “Bitcoin only.”
  • “It wasn’t at first…over time, I kind of changed my thesis to be more long-dated.” (16:25)
• Distinguishing Bitcoin from “crypto” is gaining institutional recognition, especially by US government and regulators.
  • “They’re considering Bitcoin a strategic reserve asset for the United States…and it’s codified differently than crypto.” (23:46)

DeFi, Regulation, and Trust

• Hagan reflects on DeFi’s hype, its pitfalls, and how institutionalized products like Michael Saylor’s “STRC” are “reclaiming” the concept of decentralized finance but with regulatory safeguards.
  • “DeFi is kind of a swear word in the Bitcoin community…But maybe reclaiming the term and kind of reestablishing it away from those negative connotations.” (17:36-17:42)
• DeFi is still present but nowhere near its 2021 peak, much due to trust issues and lack of security.
  • “People have just been burned so many times. Volumes are way down.” (18:04)

Bitcoin & Politics: Inevitable Integration

• Political influence and regulation are now at the heart of Bitcoin’s next era.
  • “Politics is going to integrate with you regardless…the ordering of a society. Bitcoin’s becoming a larger part of society and how we organize it.” (22:39)
• Positive movement: Bitcoin is now being officially delineated from other crypto assets by US authorities.
  • “We’re starting to see that change, which has been really encouraging.” (23:42)
• American Reserve Modernization Act is “rebranding” the idea of US Bitcoin reserves to appeal to mainstream and policymakers.
  • “They’re calling it the American Reserve Modernization Act now…more helpful to frame it as we’re modernizing America’s strategic reserves.” (25:18)

Global & Political Impact

• Reference to countries like El Salvador using Bitcoin as a strategic, transformative lever.
  • “El Salvador, for example…Bukele…to lead effectively…replaced a lot of corrupt judges.” (25:47)
• The US administration’s shift from adversarial to supportive is considered a 180-degree turn for the space.
  • “Even to just stop persecuting us would have been enough for us to just kind of feel some relief…The pendulum swung a complete 180 and I think that a lot of people are quick to forget just how bad it was.” (40:32)

AI and Personal Productivity

• Both Hagan and Kelly actively use AI to code, build dashboards, manage workflow, and handle podcast logistics.
  • “I vibe code pretty much every day. It’s a bit of an addiction.” (26:18)
  • “Now I don’t have to go to my friends that are annoyed with me. I can just go straight to Claude code.” (26:29)
• Examples include AI-powered trading bots, personal finance dashboards, and AI for improving podcast content and outreach.
  • “I built a trading bot for Poly Market…hoping to put it back up.” (27:45)
  • “I got one emailing people right now…it scraped a bunch of viral guests off YouTube…then it’s emailing them.” (32:51)
  • “I asked Saylor today how he’s using it, and he said it basically came up with his whole business model. Isn’t that crazy?” (33:43)

Culture & Memorable Encounters

• Sean Hagan shares highlights of interesting figures met at conferences:
  • Mark Moss: “Just the figures and the statistics he has on the top of his head…quality of thought…He’s built this entire system of how to leverage bitcoin in your life.” (38:44)
  • Rockstar Developer: “Looks real serious, always covering his face with a mask, but in person—silliest, goofiest guy in the world.” (39:14)
  • Donald Trump’s Post-Attempt Appearance: Conference at Nashville—“Never been in a room with so much electricity in the air.” (39:49)
• The “Bitcoin Only” culture, its ethos, and the shift away from short-term speculation to long-term conviction.

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Notable Quotes & Moments

| Timestamp | Speaker | Quote/Insight | |--------------|--------------|-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------| | 07:31 | Hagan | "The idea of the conference was to always have the flagship event, which is our US one, on the road." | | 13:36 | Hagan | “Started to kind of question the Borg cube system, as Alex Jones would say, and found bitcoin…quickly went all in because I was young and had nothing to lose.” | | 14:09 | Hagan | “It was about $3,500.” (re: first buy-in price) | | 15:04 | Hagan | “His advice was, you’re young. If you actually believe in this, what do you really have to lose?” (on father’s encouragement) | | 16:25 | Hagan | “I kind of changed my thesis to be more long-dated.” (on going Bitcoin-only) | | 22:39 | Hagan | "Politics is going to integrate with you regardless...Bitcoin’s becoming a larger part of society and how we organize it." | | 23:46 | Hagan | “They’re considering Bitcoin a strategic reserve asset for the United States…codified differently than crypto.” | | 25:18 | Hagan | “They’re calling it the American Reserve Modernization Act now...more helpful to frame it as we’re modernizing America’s strategic reserves.” | | 26:18 | Hagan | "I vibe code pretty much every day. It’s a bit of an addiction.” (on using AI to code) | | 33:43 | Kelly | “I asked Saylor today how he’s using it, and he said it basically came up with his whole business model. Isn’t that crazy?” | | 39:49 | Hagan | “The last Nashville event we did, we had Donald Trump two weeks after the assassination attempt. I’ve never been in a room with so much just electricity in the air.” | | 40:32 | Hagan | “Even to just stop persecuting us would have been enough for us to just kind of feel some relief…The pendulum swung a complete 180 and I think that a lot of people forget…” | | 42:05 | Hagan | “It’s been really interesting to be at a bitcoin company in a time when bitcoin’s been kind of growing up.” |

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• Bitcoin Conference Global Strategy & Nashville Preview: 07:00 – 09:20
• Hagan’s Bitcoin Origin Story & Philosophical Shift: 13:36 – 15:20
• All-In During COVID Crash: 14:35 – 15:10
• Becoming Bitcoin Only, Institutional Separation from Crypto: 16:18 – 24:00
• DeFi, Regulation, and the Saylor Model: 17:17 – 18:44, 33:43
• Bitcoin in US Politics, Reserve Asset Narrative: 22:39 – 26:11
• AI Productivity and Business Models: 26:18 – 27:44, 32:50 – 34:21
• Most Memorable Encounters at Conferences (Mark Moss, Rockstar Dev, Trump): 38:40 – 40:07
• Bitcoin’s Political Chill & Future of the Industry: 40:15 – 43:20

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Overall Tone & Style

The conversation is casual, candid, and infused with the ethos of Bitcoin maximalism, skeptical of traditional finance, DeFi experiments, and regulatory uncertainty, but optimistic about the coming institutional embrace. Both host and guest openly praise community, conviction, and the creative disruption provided by Bitcoin and AI.

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For New Listeners

This episode is a must for anyone seeking to understand:

• The mindset of long-term Bitcoin holders and builders
• The shifting institutional landscape around Bitcoin in the US and globally
• How AI now empowers individual ambition and automation in the business/crypto world
• The evolution from crypto speculation to Bitcoin conviction

If you’re new to Bitcoin or curious about how the next decade is shaping up, the dialogue between Sean Kelly and Sean Hagan offers both personal inspiration and strategic insight into the world’s most talked-about digital asset.

Transcript

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[Guest (Bitcoin Expert)]

The last Nashville event we did, we had Donald Trump two weeks after the assassination attempt. I've never been in a room with

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[Guest (Bitcoin Expert)]

Everyone was just amped. It was his first public appearance since it happened. I was thinking about going all in around the COVID crash.

[Host (Sean Kelly)]

Oh yeah, that was when it went down to 20, right?

[Guest (Bitcoin Expert)]

Yeah, it looked like it went off a cliff and I was kind of sitting on the back porch with my dad and we were smoking a cigar and I was telling him I'm really convicted in this bitcoin thing and I need to kind of reassess my portfolio. Everything's going to crash. I wonder what's going to recover and bounce Back better. And he's actually the one that encouraged me at that time to just go all in. I think his advice was, you're young. If you actually believe in this, what do you really have to lose?

[Host (Sean Kelly)]

All right, guys, last but not least, at the bitcoin conference, we got fellow Sean. Good to see you, brother.

[Guest (Bitcoin Expert)]

Great to be here. Thanks for having me.

[Host (Sean Kelly)]

The man who made this all happen for me. So first off, thank you. I had a blast this week. Filmed some great episodes, of course.

[Guest (Bitcoin Expert)]

Look, we appreciate you being here. A lot of us are fans of your content and, you know, especially the. The marketing team that is in the weeds doing this kind of thing with the clip farming and. And the growth hacking. You know, no one really does it quite like the Sean Kelly Show.

[Host (Sean Kelly)]

Thank you. It means a lot. Yeah, Great event. Last year was my first year. This is my second year. Had a blast both times, man. Well done. Nashville next year, right?

[Guest (Bitcoin Expert)]

Yeah, Nashville next year, which is great. We're going back to Nashville. We've been there once before. The idea of the conference was to always have the flagship event, which is our US one, on the road. So, you know, we have the bitcoin Amsterdam, which we recently sold to Treasury. We have bitcoin Mina, which is in Abu Dhabi, and we have bitcoin Hong Kong. So those will stay in those same cities for our global series. But then the flagship event in the US which is the largest, that one is supposed to be kind of like a moving roadshow.

[Host (Sean Kelly)]

Got it. So Nashville and then you've done other cities in the past too.

[Guest (Bitcoin Expert)]

Yeah, we've done Miami in the early days, out in California as well. So the idea is just kind of move that around the country.

[Host (Sean Kelly)]

How are the ones in Asia? I haven't been any of those.

[Guest (Bitcoin Expert)]

The ones in Asia are really interesting. You know, each. Each geographic region has a very different feel, kind of a different culture, obviously. But the one in. The one in Asia, it's very much more kind of industry leaning, I think. I think people are more so there to find jobs and network. But that one, the numbers are pretty insane. I think that that one will quickly start to rival our flagship one in the US of attendance.

[Host (Sean Kelly)]

How many came to this one?

[Guest (Bitcoin Expert)]

I don't have that official number yet.

[Host (Sean Kelly)]

I know last year was a lot, though.

[Guest (Bitcoin Expert)]

Yeah, last year was a lot. You know, probably a little bit less just because we're in a bear market, but I was pleasantly surprised. I think there was a ton of people here. I don't know if you got a

[Host (Sean Kelly)]

chance to walk to Expo it was packed.

[Guest (Bitcoin Expert)]

Yeah.

[Host (Sean Kelly)]

Every exhibitor was nonstop talking to people. I couldn't. I would try to talk to Gemini and there was like a line.

[Guest (Bitcoin Expert)]

Yeah. All the side stages were packed and tons of really cool booths and things going on.

[Host (Sean Kelly)]

Yeah. Well done, man. I'm excited for Nashville though. Nashville's going to be a blast.

[Guest (Bitcoin Expert)]

Nashville's going to be cool. I think Nashville's culture aligns really well with bitcoin. Right. It's traditionally been kind of a very family oriented city, a very principled city, a lot of tech and kind of a good startup scene there as well, which I don't think a lot of people kind of in a global audience are aware of. But Nashville is one of those cities and kind of comparable to Austin. A lot of people compare it. I think Nashville's got the edge. I'm from there.

[Host (Sean Kelly)]

Yeah. A little bias.

[Guest (Bitcoin Expert)]

A little bias. But I think Nashville aligns super well with the bitcoin ethos.

[Host (Sean Kelly)]

Nice. I want to dive into your story. So you basically went all in on bitcoin in college, right?

[Guest (Bitcoin Expert)]

Yeah, 100% great research. Yeah. So I wanted to be a hockey player growing up. Right. So I had to learn discipline and drive. My mom was nice enough to let me move away when I was 16 to pursue that. And then when that came to an end when I was 21, I kind of had to rediscover myself and I got really lucky that my advisor didn't let me just do the whole go straight into business school thing.

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[Guest (Bitcoin Expert)]

classes to actually figure out what I'm interested in first. And I landed on philosophy actually. And it was kind of through that lens. I started questioning everything, probably as most college students do anyway.

[Host (Sean Kelly)]

Questioning the matrix.

[Guest (Bitcoin Expert)]

Exactly, exactly. So started to kind of question the Borg cube system, as Alex Jones would say, and found bitcoin. Because I was questioning kind of like what are the properties of money that are conducive to human flourishing. And I was just kind of devastated to learn how kind of rigged the system was and just kind of quickly went all in because I was young and had nothing to lose, frankly. Yeah.

[Host (Sean Kelly)]

What price was it when you got in?

[Guest (Bitcoin Expert)]

It was. I wish I had, I'd gone in heavier. I didn't go in, you know. Yeah, as much as I should have, but it was about 35, 30 $500.

[Host (Sean Kelly)]

Wow.

[Guest (Bitcoin Expert)]

Yeah.

[Host (Sean Kelly)]

That's cheap.

[Guest (Bitcoin Expert)]

Yeah, very cheap.

[Host (Sean Kelly)]

Congrats.

[Guest (Bitcoin Expert)]

Thank you. Thank you.

[Host (Sean Kelly)]

I always respect people that got in early and held. Not all of it obviously, but you probably held a good amount. Like the conviction to have over a 10 year period is impressive.

[Guest (Bitcoin Expert)]

Yeah, 100%. And it's actually interesting. I was thinking about going all in around the COVID crash.

[Host (Sean Kelly)]

Oh yeah, that was when it went down to 20, right?

[Guest (Bitcoin Expert)]

Yeah. It looked like it went off a cliff. Right. And I was kind of sitting on the back porch with my dad and, and I think we were smoking a cigar and I was telling him, I was like, I, I'm really convicted in this bitcoin thing and I need to kind of reassess my portfolio. You know, everything's going to crash. I wonder what's going to recover and bounce back better. And he's actually the one that encouraged me at that time to just go

[Host (Sean Kelly)]

all in while your dad Did, Yes. Usually that I feel like our parents have the more safe approach, you know what I mean? Go to college, get a job, invest in the stock market.

[Guest (Bitcoin Expert)]

Yeah, I mean, I think his advice was, you're young. If you actually believe in this, what do you really have to lose?

[Host (Sean Kelly)]

Nice. Well, shout out to him, man. Yeah, awesome.

[Guest (Bitcoin Expert)]

Shout out Kevin Hagen.

[Host (Sean Kelly)]

He's a bitcoin maxi.

[Guest (Bitcoin Expert)]

He's. I don't know. I really don't know. I don't know. I don't. I don't know if he's a maxi, but he definitely understands the flaws of the current system. Sharp guy. Understands bitcoin on a deep level, especially compared to other people in his peer group. Maybe, but. But yeah, I wouldn't maybe say quite a maxi. As crazy as I am.

[Host (Sean Kelly)]

I mean, it must feel nice seeing the kids you went to school with and now you're living more comfortable than them, you know?

[Guest (Bitcoin Expert)]

Yeah. You know, I mean, I don't know. Comparisons. The thief of joy. I have plenty of friends that are doing just, just fine as well.

[Host (Sean Kelly)]

That's true too. Do you care about the price at all? Do you even check every day? Do you kind of.

[Guest (Bitcoin Expert)]

I used to, man. I mean, it basically turned me into an insomniac for a little while.

[Host (Sean Kelly)]

My mom was. Dude.

[Guest (Bitcoin Expert)]

Yeah. Yeah. It's hard not to, right? I mean, when you have. When you have that much on the. On the line, so to speak. But. But you go through cycles and you start to realize that, you know, you need to lower your time preference and just kind of think longer dated and you stop checking as I don't track.

[Host (Sean Kelly)]

I only check when I need to sell it for something. But I hate selling it, honestly.

[Guest (Bitcoin Expert)]

Yeah, like, yeah, I check sometimes because we have it up in the office and I'll walk by and I'll see it, or if I'm advising somebody that wants to get into bitcoin, I'll be forced to look at it. But yeah, I mean, it's sit and forget it. I think that's kind of the.

[Host (Sean Kelly)]

That's how you have to operate in bitcoin. Yeah. I feel like people try to day trade it. So. Is bitcoin the only crypto you own?

[Guest (Bitcoin Expert)]

Yeah, it is. You know, and it wasn't at first. Right. I mean, I think that when anybody enters the space, it's really hard to. To understand the difference between bitcoin and crypto. Maybe it is now just kind of with how institutions have gotten involved in governments and you kind of see the distinction. Right? Like, even the executive order Delineated between bitcoin, where the US ought not sell its bitcoin, but buy more. But it can sell crypto and it can't buy more crypto. So I think it's important to see the kind of growth and the obvious nature of that distinction. But back then, you know, people just kind of called bitcoin part of crypto. Right. So I was into yield farming and defi and all that, but, you know, over time, I. I kind of changed my thesis to. To be more long dated.

[Host (Sean Kelly)]

Bitcoin only pretty much with me too, I would say. I used to deal with the meme coins, the altcoins, the degen stuff, the NFTs. Now I just stick with top three stuff.

[Guest (Bitcoin Expert)]

Yeah.

[Host (Sean Kelly)]

You know, maybe top five, top 10, but not a large allocation.

[Guest (Bitcoin Expert)]

We'll get you to top one.

[Host (Sean Kelly)]

You'll get me to bitcoin only?

[Guest (Bitcoin Expert)]

Yeah.

[Host (Sean Kelly)]

Yeah. I got wrecked on Anchor. You remember that?

[Guest (Bitcoin Expert)]

Yeah. Anchor Dao.

[Host (Sean Kelly)]

Anchor Dao. But now having Sailor on today, hearing about his new product, I might try it.

[Guest (Bitcoin Expert)]

Yeah. The. The STRC.

[Host (Sean Kelly)]

Yeah. 5 percentage.

[Guest (Bitcoin Expert)]

Super interesting. You know, and I don't know, defi is kind of a. A swear word in the bitcoin.

[Host (Sean Kelly)]

Oh, is it?

[Guest (Bitcoin Expert)]

But. But Fong Li, himself, CFO of strategy, was just doing a speech at the Nakamoto stage, and. And he was calling it Bringing Defi to Wall street, which I think is a really interesting term. Right. Maybe. Maybe reclaiming the term defi and kind of reestablishing it away from some of those negative connotations. But I think it's a really interesting product.

[Host (Sean Kelly)]

Is Defi even still around? Like, I haven't. After Luna, I just.

[Guest (Bitcoin Expert)]

It's.

[State Farm Announcer]

Yeah.

[Guest (Bitcoin Expert)]

You know, people have just been burned so many times. Volumes are way down. You know, it's definitely still there. There's. There's a lot of. A lot of people interested, but. But not to the extent that it was at one time.

[Host (Sean Kelly)]

And I mean, the concept was great, you know.

[Guest (Bitcoin Expert)]

Yeah. Yeah. I mean, look, the promise was great. Right. But, you know, the promise of it was great, but, you know, in practice, it just didn't really live up to all the expectations, especially with the vulnerabilities of exploits. And, you know, unlike bitcoin, you still have to trust individuals. Right. There's someone running it. There was a governance system.

[Host (Sean Kelly)]

Exactly. But someone like Saylor, you know, been tried and true. I could somewhat trust him to a certain degree to put some money.

[Guest (Bitcoin Expert)]

Yeah. And it's regulated by the SEC and then the enforcement of the US Government, so.

[Host (Sean Kelly)]

Right.

[Guest (Bitcoin Expert)]

For what that's worth it at least makes you a little bit more comfortable.

[Host (Sean Kelly)]

Absolutely. You mentioned politics earlier. Are you a fan of integrating politics with bitcoin?

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[Host (Sean Kelly)]

I feel like a lot of people just accepted getting ripped off by their bank. Monthly fees, overdraft fees, ATM fees. Like why are you paying money just to use your own money? That's why Chime caugh my attention. Chime is changing the way people bank. With fee free banking built for you, not the bank. No overdraft fees, no monthly fees and access to thousands of fee free ATMs. Honestly, the benefits are kind of stacked. With direct deposit, CHIME members can get up to $1,150 in annual rewards. Be free. You could get 5% cash back on things you already spend money on like gas and groceries. Plus savings that grow faster with 3.6 75% APY, that's way above the national average. They've also got Spot Me which lets you overdraft up to 200 fee free and real customer support 24. 7 actual humans. My younger self would definitely benefited from something like this. Chime is not just smarter banking. It's the most rewarding way to bank. Join the millions who are already banking fee free today. Head to chime.comDSH that's chime.comDSH it only takes a few minutes to sign up.

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[Guest (Bitcoin Expert)]

I think it's unavoidable. You know, I think politics is going to integrate with you regardless. You know, the classical definition of politics is just the ordering of a society, right? If you go back and read Plato, Aristotle, whoever, it's, you know, their books on politics as they named them are all about how to order humanity properly, how to do that in a way that's, that's again conducive to human flourishing. So, you know, politics unfortunately has kind of been adulterated and popularized and kind of perverted away from from that kind of core focus. Like, that's not what comes to mind when you think of politics, but you know, with the classical definition. Absolutely. It has to be a part of that. Right. Because bitcoin's becoming a larger part of society and how we organize it. But, you know, U.S. regulators are going to regulate. They want control. And so I think it's important that we continue to advocate and work through groups like the Bitcoin Policy Institute just to make sure that, well, regulators are thinking about bitcoin. They're well informed. Right. We saw a lot of bad policy in the past, for example, like lumping in bitcoin with crypto. I think that that's a misnomer. And we're starting to see that change, which has been really encouraging.

[Host (Sean Kelly)]

Oh, really? So they're kind of categorizing it separately. Yes. What's the change there?

[Guest (Bitcoin Expert)]

So they're considering Bitcoin a strategic reserve asset for the United States, which is. And then it's codified differently than crypto. In that executive order, for example, it actually delineates specifically between the two.

[Host (Sean Kelly)]

Oh, wow. That's huge. So the podcast receives a lot of sponsorship inquiries and people coming on the show. I needed to find a program that help systematize and organize all these applications and inquiries. That's where Zapier comes into play. Zapier is how you actually deliver on your AI strategy, not just talk about it. With Zapier's AI orchestration platform, you can bring the power of AI to any workflow, so you could do more of what matters. You could connect top AI models like ChatGPT and Claude to the tools your team already uses. So you can add AI exactly where you need it, whether that's AI powered workflows, an autonomous agent, customer, chatbot, or something else. You can orchestrate it with Zapier. Zapier is for everyone, tech expert or not. Teams have already automated over 300 million AI tasks using Zapier. Join the millions of businesses transforming how they work with Zapier and AI. Get started for free by visiting Zapier.com SocialHour that's Z A P I I E R.com Social Hour has. Has the US bought any officially or no?

[Guest (Bitcoin Expert)]

Not that I'm aware of. But on stage today they said that we should hear some exciting updates to the American Reserve here shortly.

[Host (Sean Kelly)]

Nice.

[Guest (Bitcoin Expert)]

I'm interested to hear what. What that actually means.

[Host (Sean Kelly)]

Yeah, because I know that's been in the talks and the whispers for years, right?

[Guest (Bitcoin Expert)]

Yes. When Trump took over and they're kind of doing like a rebrand, like a remarketing. They're calling it the American Reserve Modernization act now, which I think it's actually kind of clever, clever marketing because you know, most people when they hear bitcoin strategic reserve, they kind of just throw their hands up, why are we buying bitcoin? Are we just going to be exit liquidity for these bitcoiners? But I think it's actually more helpful to frame it as, you know, we're modernizing America's strategic reserves.

[Host (Sean Kelly)]

Yeah, look how it changed Venezuela when they bought bitcoin.

[Guest (Bitcoin Expert)]

Look. Or El Salvador.

[Host (Sean Kelly)]

Or El Salvador.

[Guest (Bitcoin Expert)]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. El Salvador, for example. Right. Bukele, that's, that's a great example of a president that's not afraid to lead. Right. And do the things necessary. It's interesting. One of the first things he did to be able to lead effectively was he replaced a lot of corrupt judges. Right. I know we have a big federal judge issue in our country where, you know, some non elected bureaucrat can kind of wave their magic wand and now it kind of impacts what our elected officials can actually do. So.

[Host (Sean Kelly)]

Yeah, money talks over here, right?

[Guest (Bitcoin Expert)]

Yeah, 100%.

[Host (Sean Kelly)]

Yeah. You into any AI stuff yet?

[Guest (Bitcoin Expert)]

I am, yeah. I, I vibe code pretty much every day. It's a bit of an addiction. I think I probably need to go on what was that old show? My Strange Addiction. People are like eating sand.

[Host (Sean Kelly)]

I miss that show. I see clips on my feast.

[Guest (Bitcoin Expert)]

Yeah, I'm, I'm an a, I'm a vibe coding addict. Right. I'm like Rick Rubin with the, with the meme. Just, you know. But yeah, it's so fun because in the past I've always had these ideas and I would nag my computer science buddies to death. Hey man, we gotta do this. We gotta launch this project or this or the other. And you know, they would always kind of shoo me away like, not this again, Sean. Like, you know, I don't want to do your, you know, idea number 1000, but now I don't have to go to my friends that are annoyed with me. I can just go straight to Claude code and, and kind of bring my ideas to fruition. And it's, it's been really cool just to ideate and actually kind of learn what works, what doesn't. Built a lot of dashboards, some trading bots, things like that.

[Host (Sean Kelly)]

Let's hear some of these ideas that didn't pan out that you thought would be the man. Million dollar company.

[Guest (Bitcoin Expert)]

Yeah, some, some of the ideas that didn't pan out a lot of different social apps. Right. I mean, just that's the competitive space.

[Host (Sean Kelly)]

I feel like every time I get p app I'm like, good luck, dude.

[Guest (Bitcoin Expert)]

Exactly. I mean it was the whole cliche kind of like the anti social media social media. Like then I kind of quickly learned like I'm just kind of wasting my time.

[Host (Sean Kelly)]

You need billions to play in that space.

[Guest (Bitcoin Expert)]

Yeah, you need billions. And also like, do people even really want it? Right. I.

[Host (Sean Kelly)]

Everyone loves their social media apps. I feel like introducing a new one would be so difficult.

[Guest (Bitcoin Expert)]

Yeah. So because you got to change consumer behavior, everyone's in such a deep pattern already. So instead I focused on what I want. I started focusing on, okay, what's actually going to make my life more helpful.

[Host (Sean Kelly)]

And what was that?

[Guest (Bitcoin Expert)]

You know, I have dashboards that monitor, you know, like my Apple health and my calendar and you know, whether it be my investment positions, things like that. So I was kind of like a Sean's life dashboard. That's been a really helpful one. I built a. A trading bot for Poly Market that actually had an edge and real until. Until, you know, it kind of had to get shut down with. With. With. I'm not going to say too much about how those operate, but had to wind that down. I'm hoping to put it back up. I don't want to.

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[Host (Sean Kelly)]

I feel like a lot of people just accepted getting ripped off by their bank. Monthly fees, overdraft fees, ATM fees. Like why are you paying money just to use your own money? That's why Chime caught my attention. Chime is changing the way people bank with fee free banking built for you, not the bank. No overdraft fees, no monthly fees and access to thousands of fee free ATMs. Honestly, the benefits are kind of stacked. With direct deposit, Chime members can get up to a thousand one hundred fifty in annual rewards fee free. You could get 5% cash back on things you already spend money on like gas and groceries, plus savings that grow faster with 3.75 APY. That's way above the national average leverage. They've also got Spot Me which lets you overdraft up to 200 fee free and real customer support 24. 7 actual humans. My younger self would definitely benefited from something like this. Chime is not just smart banking. It's the most rewarding way to bank. Join the millions who are already banking fee free today. Head to chime.comDSH that's chime.comDSH it only takes a few minutes to sign up.

[Chime Advertiser]

Chime is a fintech, not a bank. Banking services for MyPay and Chime Card provided by Chimes Bank Partners. Optional products and services may have fees or charges. Stated annual percentage yield and cash back. Chime prime only no minimum balance required. Checking account ranking based on a J.D. power survey published October 20, 2025. For more information on APY rates, my pay Spot Me and travel perks go to chime.com disclosures in business, I'm always

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trying to get the best outcome for the best price. So it's kind of crazy. I haven't looked at my life insurance in years. I don't even know if what I'm paying is competitive or if I have enough coverage with how things have changed. That's why I started looking into Select Quote. For over 40 years, they've helped more than 2 million Americans secure over $700 billion in coverage. Their whole model is simple.

[Guest (Bitcoin Expert)]

Simple.

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[Guest (Bitcoin Expert)]

I can keep my edge. If everyone did it, maybe there wouldn't be.

[Host (Sean Kelly)]

I feel like there's some good arb opportunities in those prediction markets.

[Guest (Bitcoin Expert)]

Yeah, 100%.

[Host (Sean Kelly)]

My buddy just bet on Polymarket against MGM and Arbitrage and made a couple hundred bucks.

[Guest (Bitcoin Expert)]

Yeah, 100%. Especially between the markets it's so easy, it's so frictionless to open those arbitrage positions. And even inside the markets I've noticed because they're young and, and the volume isn't as deep as one might assume. There's kind of this like divorce probability situation where you know, you know that the probability over here, if this happens, it impacts this market. But the way that the two are in relation with each other, you know, you can, you can buy these things for, you know, over a dollar in totality settlement no matter what ends up happening.

[Host (Sean Kelly)]

Damn. Yeah, that's nuts. Yeah. Crazy times. We're in. I got like five AI agents right now and I'm constantly thinking of more ways.

[Guest (Bitcoin Expert)]

What are you doing with it?

[Host (Sean Kelly)]

I got one emailing people right now. So it's emailing guests that I want on the show.

[Guest (Bitcoin Expert)]

I just, I thought I was emailing you.

[Host (Sean Kelly)]

No, it's a separate email. It's not my connect with my Gmail. It's connecting my DSH email. Yeah, it scraped like a bunch of Viral Guests off YouTube Most Viewed Episodes and then it's emailing them.

[Guest (Bitcoin Expert)]

Are you using it at all with your clipping?

[Host (Sean Kelly)]

Yes, to find the hooks.

[Guest (Bitcoin Expert)]

Sweet.

[Host (Sean Kelly)]

Yeah, find the hooks. It's also studying other viral clips and giving me feedback on that. You could do anything, dude. It's crazy.

[Guest (Bitcoin Expert)]

It's insane. I also, we didn't end up using it, but I also was able to build a like a live stream tipping service where like automatically gives refunds back if we don't really pick your comment because like right now you can spend money and you know, if they don't acknowledge it you just lost your money.

[Host (Sean Kelly)]

Right.

[Guest (Bitcoin Expert)]

And so it was built on bitcoin lightning and things like that. So I think creators are going to be able to use it for cool ways like that, to monetize without having to go through the actual platform and lose a. Lose a percentage of that.

[Host (Sean Kelly)]

Yeah. I asked Saylor today how he's using it, and he said it basically came up with his whole business model. Isn't that crazy?

[Guest (Bitcoin Expert)]

All of his preferreds.

[Host (Sean Kelly)]

Yeah. He made billions of dollars off it, basically.

[Guest (Bitcoin Expert)]

Yeah. It's insane. I mean, it's also crazy that he's open about that.

[Host (Sean Kelly)]

Yeah. I was shocked when he said that. I was like, damn, you're not gatekeeping A little bit.

[Guest (Bitcoin Expert)]

Yeah. Well, the thing about Saylor that's been. That's been so interesting, too, is just his radical transparency.

[Host (Sean Kelly)]

Yeah.

[Guest (Bitcoin Expert)]

You know, even from the beginning, he was just begging other companies. He's like, hey, this works. Like, here's my playbook. It's in the public. Here's exactly what I'm doing. Here's who I'm doing it with. Here's who I'm talking to. Like, please copy me. It works. So that's very odd. You don't really see a lot of, you know, public executives telling people all their secrets.

[Host (Sean Kelly)]

I wonder if he's just so confident in bitcoin that he doesn't care.

[Guest (Bitcoin Expert)]

Yeah. And he has a head start, too.

[Host (Sean Kelly)]

Yeah.

[Guest (Bitcoin Expert)]

And especially when it comes to the. The preferred offerings, you know, the more the better. You really. I think you really want to develop that. You know, bitcoin as. As debt sort of marketplace for sure.

[Host (Sean Kelly)]

You've met some of the most interesting people at these events. Obviously Sailor's one of them. But who else comes to mind for you?

[Guest (Bitcoin Expert)]

Most interesting whole for you? Yeah, memorable. You know, there's a lot of interesting characters, so I would say the most impressionable was I was able to get

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[State Farm Announcer]

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[Host (Sean Kelly)]

I feel like a lot of people just accepted getting ripped off by their bank. Monthly fees, overdraft fees, ATM fees. Like why are you paying money just to use your own money? That's why Chime caught my attention. Chime is changing the way people bank. Bank with fee free banking built for you, not the bank. No overdraft fees, no monthly fees and access to thousands of fee free ATMs. Honestly, the benefits are kind of stacked with direct deposit, Chime members can get up to $1,150 in annual rewards fee free. You could get 5% cash back on things you already spend money on like gas and groceries plus savings that grow faster with 3.75 APY. That's way way above the national average. They've also got Spot Me which lets you overdraft up to 200 fee free and real customer support 24. 7 actual humans. My younger self would definitely benefited from something like this. Chime is not just smart banking. It's the most rewarding way to bank join the millions who are already banking fee free today. Head to chime.comDSH that's chime.comDSH it only takes a few minutes to sign up.

[Chime Advertiser]

Chime is a fintech, not a bank. Banking services for MyPay and Chime card provided by Chime's bank partners. Optional products and services may have fees or charges, stated annual percentage yield and cash back for Chime prime only. No minimum balance required. Checking account ranking based on the J.D. power survey published October 20, 2025. For more information on APY rates, MyPay Spot Me and travel perks go to Chime.com disclosures in business I'm always trying

[SelectQuote Advertiser]

to get the best outcome for the best price. So it's kind of crazy. I haven't looked at my life insurance in years. I don't even know if what I'm paying is competitive or if I have enough coverage. With how things have changed. That's why I started looking into select quote. For over 40 years they've helped more than 2 million Americans secure over $700 billion in coverage. Their whole model is simple. They shop around to find you the right policy for your specific needs so you're not overpaying or undercovered. Their licensed agents work for you in as little as 15 minutes. They compare policies from top rated carriers to find something that fits your health and your budget. And they do it for free. No medical exam, no problem. You could get same day coverage up to $2 million. And if you've got pre existing conditions, they've got options for that too. Get the right life insurance for you for less and Save more than [e-mail] Save more than 50% on term life [e-mail] Today to get started, that's SelectQuote.comDSH

[Guest (Bitcoin Expert)]

Dinner with Mark Moss.

[Host (Sean Kelly)]

Oh, that was a good guess he came on to.

[Guest (Bitcoin Expert)]

Yeah, he's, he's killer. I mean talk about a sharp guy, right? Like that's why he's so memorable. I mean we sat there for dinner and just the, just the figures and the statistics that he kind of has on the top of his head. It's a Brussels. And also just the quality of thought, right? He's kind of built this entire system of, and he gave a talk on it of kind of like how to leverage bitcoin most appropriately in your life and use different financial instruments to kind of really get a leg up and outpace well beyond inflation. So that was a really memorable moment but also met some interesting people like Rockstar developer who did BTC pay server built out a lot of the infrastructure for Strike. Okay. And he's one of these guys where you know, he looks real serious. He's always covering his face with a mask. No one knows who he really is but you know, you expect him to be pretty buttoned up cypher punk and you get in a room with him and he's just the silliest, goofiest guy in the world. And and so it's been memorable to kind of meet some of those characters too who just aren't quite like you would assume they are.

[Host (Sean Kelly)]

Online favorite bitcoin conference of all time.

[Guest (Bitcoin Expert)]

Favorite bitcoin conference of all time.

[Host (Sean Kelly)]

That's tough.

[Guest (Bitcoin Expert)]

Yeah. I mean, it's gotta, it's gotta be Nashville last. The, the last Nashville event we did, we had Donald Trump two weeks after the assassination attempt. Wow. And, you know, that was packed. I've never been in a room with so much just electricity in the air. Everyone was just amped. It was his first public appearance since it happened.

[Host (Sean Kelly)]

Geez.

[Guest (Bitcoin Expert)]

And the place is just buzzing.

[Host (Sean Kelly)]

Also. They've been the first kind of, we don't have to get too political, but like first pro crypto kind of, you know, administration, I feel like. Ever.

[Guest (Bitcoin Expert)]

Yeah, ever. Yeah. And the administration before them to the contrary was incredibly, you know, adversary. Yeah.

[Host (Sean Kelly)]

The true.

[Guest (Bitcoin Expert)]

Right. I mean, you had people getting subpoenaed, going to jail, getting debanked. All these, all these.

[Host (Sean Kelly)]

I got people, every US based crypto company got investigated. They all, A lot of them left the country.

[Guest (Bitcoin Expert)]

Yeah. So just to have, to have someone come in and, you know, even to just stop persecuting us would have been enough for us to just kind of feel some relief and felt like we're trending in the right direction. But I mean, the pendulum swung a complete 180 and I think that a lot of people are quick to forget just how bad it was. And so you hear a lot of people kind of getting frustrated and kind of anxious of wanting this administration to do more. And I certainly hear them, you know, there was a lot of promises we've yet to see, but at the same time, you know, I think we're so quick to be ungrateful because it was just a couple years ago that we were literally. To your point, what happened to you getting debanked or even maybe thrown in jail?

[Host (Sean Kelly)]

Yeah, it's crazy. People forget even the COVID years.

[Guest (Bitcoin Expert)]

Yeah.

[Host (Sean Kelly)]

Like, it feels like it was so long ago, but that was a rough time. Man, what a psyop that was.

[Guest (Bitcoin Expert)]

Yeah, it was.

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[Host (Sean Kelly)]

Let's go. What's next for you, man?

[Guest (Bitcoin Expert)]

What's next for me? You know, we got a lot of interesting things happening with our firm. I think that it's been really interesting to be at a bitcoin company in a time when bitcoin's been kind of growing up. I would say right when I first joined, it was right around the time of COVID and a lot of people started to wake up to a lot of things more broadly. And I think that that ushered in kind of a new wave and new excitement around bitcoin, which was very interesting, right, because in a world full of lies and fabrications, you know, there's this open source money that incentivizes truth, right. And you can't manipulate it or lie about what's happening on chain. And then, and then through that we go through this era of the state fighting us and doing all these things and trying to, trying to debank people in the bitcoin space. And now you have this kind of heroic rise of bitcoin and nation states like El Salvador adopting it and US President saying we're going to do a strategic reserve and signing executive orders around it. You know, recently you've seen people in Congress even say bitcoin's a power projection mechanism that is in the US best interest to utilize and the military is experimenting with it. What that means, I have no idea. But it's interesting that there's some very sophisticated generals even thinking about that. So what's next for our company is I think we've done a really good job kind of growing up with bitcoin throughout this time, meeting, meeting the market, where it's at, right? Whether it's the magazine, whether it's the fund, whether it's the conference, you know, really making sure that we don't let ourselves get in the way. Right. Let let bitcoin kind of continue to be that North Star and, and continue to just kind of self examine and, and try to meet that moment.

[Host (Sean Kelly)]

Yeah, well, we'll end it there, man. Thanks for coming on. I'll see you in.

[Guest (Bitcoin Expert)]

Awesome, dude.

[Host (Sean Kelly)]

Thank you so much. Yeah, check them out, guys. See ya. If you learned anything from this episode or got any value at all, please share this episode with a friend. It helps us grow the channel. It helps us grow the podcast and it means a lot to us. Thank you so much.

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