Caio Borralho Reveals Why Jon Jones Is the Most Complete Fighter Ever... | DSH #1870

Summary

Digital Social Hour #1870 – Caio Borralho Reveals Why Jon Jones Is the Most Complete Fighter Ever

Host: Sean Kelly
Guest: Caio Borralho (UFC fighter, “The Fighting Nerd”)
Date: March 18, 2026

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Episode Overview

This episode brings UFC middleweight Caio Borralho to the Digital Social Hour. Host Sean Kelly dives into Borralho’s journey from his early days in Brazil to UFC stardom, the culture of fighting, how injuries and setbacks shaped his mindset, and why he considers Jon Jones the most complete fighter in MMA history. The conversation is candid, personal, and packed with technical and philosophical insights about the fight game and the human spirit.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Fighter Weakness, Team Dynamics, and Training Culture

• Every Fighter Has a Weakness ([00:00], [04:03])
  • Caio asserts that no fighter is invincible: “Every person has a weakness, right? But it comes about fighting, for sure. Every fighter has a weakness.”
• Modern Fight Teams ([01:03])
  • Caio describes how large, diverse teams have become the norm: “Right now, we have, like, around almost 15 fighters from the UFC. We have, like, more 50 fighters from out of the UFC. Wow.”
• Team Training ([01:36], [01:53])
  • Training is split by weight class, but they intermingle: “We all work in the same room at least once in a day.”

2. Biggest Fight & Arena Atmosphere

• T-Mobile Arena Debut ([02:13])
  • Caio is excited for his first fight at T-Mobile Arena, describing the energy as “fucking loud.”
• Impact of Crowds ([02:45])
  • He prefers quieter venues for strategic fighting but welcomes the thrill of a large audience.

3. Nickname Origins: 'The Fighting Nerd' & 'The Natural'

• Roots of 'The Fighting Nerd' ([03:07])
  • Caio earned the nickname by being the first from his team (Fighting Nerds) to make it to the UFC.
• How 'The Natural' Stuck ([03:22])
  • “Anywhere is natural for me. Call me the Natural, and then stick with it, you know?”

4. Evolution of MMA & The GOAT Debate

• From Single-Discipline to Well-Rounded ([04:27])
  • The sport’s evolution: “Back in the days, start MMA, but they come from Muay Thai or Jiu Jitsu background…but right now people are studying MMA, doing MMA, so…the sport has developed a lot.”
• Why Jon Jones Is the Most Complete Fighter ([05:34]-[06:11])
  • “You said it all. Yeah, I think he’s the GOAT, you know, because he mastered everything. He’s very violent, very competitive…”

5. Rules, Injuries, and the Realities of Combat

• Danger of Specific Techniques ([06:43], [07:26])
  • Caio would change the 12-to-6 elbow rule: “Because this is a life changing punch, you know, it’s…dangerous.”
• What Hurts Most ([07:47])
  • Kicks stand out: “I think it was more a kick…Because I’m very aware of my defense…just go into the arms and kind of hurts.”
• Fighting Through Injury ([09:03])
  • “I broke a foot kicking a guy…training 10 days before my fight. No, I still managed to fight…I knocked the guy out in the first round.”

6. Why Caio Chose Fighting: Overcoming Fear and Proving Himself

• Origin Story ([10:00])
  • Feeling like a fearful kid, Caio took up fighting not for money, but self-proving:

    “I wanted to prove not only people, but myself that I could take it, you know, I could face adversities and go there and be courageous.” ([10:00]–[11:38])

7. Brazilian Fighting Culture & Upbringing

• Cultural Roots ([11:56]-[13:25])
  • Fighting is “in our DNA.” Many legendary fighters are motivated by tough backgrounds.
  • Shout out to his hardworking mother: “She always works her ass off to make me be in a good school, have a good education…”

8. Pursuing the UFC Dream: Sacrifice, Setbacks, and Success

• Setbacks on the Contender Series ([15:30]-[17:48])
  • Initially denied a UFC contract, he stayed in America on his own dime, waited for another chance, and seized it:

    “I told him, like, tell the guys from the UFC, I’m gonna get my purse from this fight…If there’s any fight that goes off…just call me. I wouldn’t leave this town without my contract.” ([16:09])

• Overcoming Surgeries and Maintaining Belief ([17:55])
  • Five surgeries slowed his career, but he never quit:

    “I dealt with a lot of injuries. So I had three surgeries on my shoulder, left shoulder, and two surgeries on my left knee…But I was always believing that I’m gonna make it happen.”

9. Career Stability, Money, and Building a Brand

• Fighter Economic Realities ([19:57]-[20:20])
  • UFC pay is good, but nothing like mainstream sports: “It’s not even compared to what these guys make.”
• Importance of Brand & Sponsorships ([20:20]-[20:55])
  • “We need to have a good brand, build a good brand and be a good person to represent other people’s brand.”
• Media Strategy ([20:55]-[21:31])
  • Investments in social media and content: “I have my sister that works with me. I have two camera guys editing and filming almost every day, my YouTube channel…”

10. Coping with Losses: Mental Fortitude and Learning

• First Career Losses as Turning Points ([21:31]-[23:20])
  • Losses led to focusing on striking through Muay Thai and boxing; led to a 10-year undefeated stretch.
• Adapting After Ending a Win Streak ([23:59])
  • “It affected me, but it affected me to a good thing…we adapted very well. Right now we’re more united than ever.”

11. Dealing with Adversity: Nightmarish Training Camps

• Challenges Before Title Opportunity ([25:05]-[27:44])
  • Weight cuts, traveling alone, lung infections, and overtraining led to a difficult loss. In hindsight, Caio wouldn’t repeat the same risk-laden choices.

12. Personal Life: Chess, Anime, and Fatherhood

• Chess & Anime ([28:07]-[29:39])
  • Admits not having much time for chess or anime now, but Naruto inspired him as a youth:

    “Naruto has a lot to teach you…resilience, believe in yourself and all this.” ([28:58])

• Money & Fame ([30:03]-[31:26])
  • Money made life more comfortable and stable, but hasn’t changed him: “I really don’t care…you leave this world with nothing.”
• Fatherhood’s Impact ([31:37]-[32:22])
  • “Best thing in the world…My son and my daughter made me a better man…because they mimic everything you do. They just want to be like you. You’re their superheroes.”

13. Would He Let His Kids Fight?

• Martial Arts for All, Fighting Not Required ([32:29]-[33:26])
  • “100% my kid goes to the gym…But to be a fighter: Only if he wants…It’s a tough life…not just physically but mentally.”

14. The Roots of Grit: Hard Upbringing and Combat Sports

• Challenging Childhoods Forge Fighters ([33:37]-[34:30])
  • “Trauma makes you tough,” but he hopes to minimize trauma for his kids and let them choose their own path.

15. Stability and Earnings in Fighting

• Lack of Security ([34:35]-[35:05])
  • “You don’t even know what’s going to happen…in the middle of the training, you can hurt yourself…If you tone your ACL…you’ll be one year out. How are you going to make money?”

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On the Complexity of Being a Fighter:
  “You need to be training everything, not just like punching, kinking, but wrestling and defense and all that. So the injuries is kind of common.” ([00:00])
• On Jon Jones’ Greatness:
  “He mastered everything. He’s very violent, very competitive…that’s why he’s one of the greatest of all time.” – Caio ([05:54]-[06:11])
• On Overcoming Fear:
  “I wanted to prove…myself that I could take it…face adversities and go there and be courageous…” – Caio ([10:00])
• On Loss and Resilience:
  “My first loss…was the most important moment of my life…made me realize I needed to work on something.” ([21:36])
• On Parenting:
  “They mimic everything you do. They just want to be like you. You’re their superheroes…It changes everything.” ([32:05]-[32:22])

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• Team Dynamics & Training: [01:03]-[02:10]
• UFC Dreams & Setbacks: [15:30]-[17:48]
• The Jon Jones Debate & Rule Changes: [05:34]-[07:26]
• Adversity & Recovery from a Nightmare Camp: [25:05]-[27:44]
• Philosophy on Loss & Learning: [21:31]-[23:59]
• Cultural and Family Roots: [11:56]-[14:03]
• Brand Building & Media Strategy: [20:20]-[21:31]
• Personal Side: Anime, Chess, Fatherhood: [28:07]-[32:22]

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Tone and Style

Throughout the episode, both Sean and Caio keep the energy authentic and insightful, alternating between technical fight talk, stories of struggle, and philosophical reflections on improvement and family. Caio’s passion for the sport—and for self-improvement—runs through every answer, revealing the thoughtful, driven mindset behind “The Fighting Nerd.”

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Final Thoughts

Caio’s journey is a testament to grit, intelligence, and heart—whether discussing the science behind fight picks, the emotional cost of loss, or the joy and responsibility of fatherhood. The episode offers unique insight into what it takes not only to reach but to stay at MMA’s highest level, and why martial arts remains a powerful tool for personal transformation.

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Full episode available on [YouTube and podcast platforms]. Caio Borralho can be found on Instagram and YouTube as @CaioBorralho.

Transcript

[A]

Every person has a weakness, right? But it comes about fighting, for sure. Every fighter has a weakness. Even is grappling or striking or mixing up or the gas tank or endurance.

[B]

Jon Jones, 100%.

[A]

You said it all. Yeah. I think he's the goat. It's a hard sport. You need to be training everything, not just like punching, kinking, but wrestling and defense and all that. So the injuries is kind of common, you know, that it's hard to get out of a fight.

[B]

Okay, guys, UFC fighter on the show today, Caio Bajo. Hey, that was that pronunciation.

[A]

Yeah, it was perfect. Let's go. It was perfect, brother. Better than a lot of people.

[B]

Let's go, man. Well, good to see you. You're out here training for the upcoming fight, right?

[A]

Yeah, yeah, for sure. I've been here for. Already for two weeks, and I will be the third week. And we got Jinx fighting on the first week, and I have my training camp, and then this week we got Bruno Brazil and Michal Lechechu from the team they're fighting on Saturday. In the apex.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Very busy, busy time.

[B]

Big squad.

[A]

Yeah, exactly, exactly. And people are doing very good.

[B]

Is that pretty normal for fighters to have a really big team that multiple people?

[A]

Yeah, right. Right now, it's kind of more normal, you know, like back in the days when you got some. Someone in a team from the UFC is like one or two guys in the ufc, you know, and they build a team from that. But right now, we have, like, around almost 15 fighters from the UFC. We have, like, a more 50 fighters from out of the UFC. Wow. Like 20 ready to go, you know, on a UFC level. So, yeah, the team is doing very good.

[B]

Yeah, that's impressive. So you all train together?

[A]

Yeah, we all train together. Of course, we separate from weight class, you know, so there's a. The first training in the morning is from the 125ers to 145ers, and then the second training in the morning right after is from 150 to 260.

[B]

Yeah, got it. Yeah. Oh, they lump all of those guys in 1. 150.

[A]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[B]

Wow. That's a big gap there, for sure.

[A]

Of course, the. The 155 guys, they only work with, like, 155ers and 170s and. But we all work in the same. In the same room at least once in a day.

[B]

Wow.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Your fight coming up is one of the biggest of your career.

[A]

Yeah, it's the biggest one. Yeah, it's on the T Mobile. T mobile. You know, it's my first time fighting the T mobile. You know, it's loud in there. Yeah, it's fucking loud and energy over there. I've been there for a lot of UFC shows, but never fought there. And it's crazy because I fought already six times in Vegas, but only Apex and now this number card on Paramount, the new deal of the ufc, is a big card because Charles the Bronx is fighting on the main event, and me and Rigard with the kome, so it's a big one.

[B]

Do you think the atmosphere plays a role in the fight?

[A]

For sure, Definitely. Definitely. It makes you feel a little bit different, you know, I like fighting the Apex because I like quiet, you know, because I'm more like a strategic guy, more cerebral, whenever fighting. And I don't get, like. I don't change that much my style, even with a crowd or no crowd, and. But it's good to fight. I mean, a big arena, too, you know?

[B]

Yeah, yeah. The Fighting Nerd. That's your nickname.

[A]

Yeah, exactly.

[B]

How'd you get that?

[A]

Yeah, my nickname is the Net role. Yeah, the Fighting Nerd. It's like I'm the first one from the team fighting nerds that got into the ufc, so I'm kind of the original Fighting Nerd, you know? But my. My nickname is the Net Row.

[B]

How'd you get that nickname?

[A]

It's funny, because I was fighting Brazil organization, and. And in the fight, I did everything. I was good on the ground. I was good on the feet and all that, and I didn't have a nickname by that time, you know? And then after. After winning, I submitted the guy in the first round, and after the win, he came to the. The interviewer came to me and said, like, so you went very good on the ground, if you. What do you prefer? And I said, anywhere is natural for me. Call me the Natural, and then stick with it, you know?

[B]

I love that. That's so close. I gotta watch that clip.

[A]

Yeah. Yeah, it was nice.

[B]

Do you. Do you believe every fighter has a weakness, though?

[A]

I believe so. Every. Every person has a weakness. Right. But it comes about fighting, for sure. Every fighter has a weakness, even if this grappling or striking or mixing up or the gas tank or endurance or anything like that. So our work is to find this weakness and work towards that, you know? Yeah.

[B]

Because it's hard to master everything, right?

[A]

Yeah, it's hard.

[B]

It's probably impossible.

[A]

Almost impossible. Yeah, it's hard, but. But I think that's your goal when you MMA fighter that's that needs to be your goal, to master everything you need to be. And nowadays the sport developed so much because people back in the days start mma, but they come from Muay Thai background or they come from Jiu Jitsu background. So they are getting into only one specifically kind of martial arts. But right now people are studying mma, doing mma, you know, so. So kind of sport had developed a lot.

[B]

Yeah, because you used to be able to win back then with kind of one style, right?

[A]

Yeah, exactly. Because the sport was made to see which style was better than the other. You know what I mean? So. And that's when Jiu Jitsu came out, you know, and the Gracie family, they found they pick it up, the smallest guy from the families and then put in on the cage to fight like big guys. And then it wasn't like even weight classes.

[B]

Yeah. So.

[A]

And then he came there, won the first, won the second, you know, he was submitting all the big guys and all that. So people like, oh, this is Jiu Jitsu, I want to do that. So that's when Jiu Jitsu came out legend. Yeah.

[B]

Wow.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Who would you say is the most complete fighter you've seen that had the least amount of weaknesses?

[A]

That's. That's hard, I would say. Oh, that one was hard. Like a complete fighter.

[B]

Jon Jones, 100.

[A]

You said it all. Yeah, I think he's the goat, you know, because he mastered everything. He's very violent, very competitive. He came from a rested background, but he was in ufc, like knocking guy out, guys out, doing elbows, knees, and being, you know, complete. And I think that's why he's one of the greatest of all time, for sure.

[B]

Yeah. Because his defense was good. He never got knocked out.

[A]

Exactly.

[B]

No tko, exactly. He never trusts. Right.

[A]

Yeah. He never, never lost a fight. The only fight that he lost was because he was dq. Dq. Because he, he, the guy was grounded. And then he did a up kick.

[B]

Oh, I thought it was the elbow. That was it. Up kick. Okay.

[A]

Yeah, I think it was the up kick. Yeah, I don't remember that, but, but I think was the up kick. And then he got the Cube on this fight. And then that's the only fight that he lost. Yeah. Actually was the elbow. 6 to 6 to 12 to 6. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[B]

And now you could do that, right?

[A]

Now you can do that. Wow. Yeah. If I would change some rules in the mma, I, I could change that one. Because this is a life changing punch, you know, it's a life changing strike. You know, like, imagine a guy goes 12 to 6 in your ribs, he can break your ribs like real bad. He can go into your lungs or something like that, or he can just disfigurate your face with one elbow that connects, you know, so it's kind of dangerous.

[B]

The spinning elbows always look.

[A]

Yeah. Deadly.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

It's a lot of force coming out from spin. Right. It's physics, you know, and. And then the elbow is very sharp and point, you know, so. Yeah.

[B]

So you would remove elbows entirely or just the 12 to 6?

[A]

No, I would move only the 12 to 6. Yeah. Because the elbows is part of the game. You know, the, the Muay Thai, you know, the elbows make cut a lot and, and then a fight can be stopped after cut. And I think elbows are good, but only 12 to 6 is kind of dangerous.

[B]

Yeah. What attack has hurt you the most? Was it an elbow? Was it a kick? Was it a punch? Certain part of the body?

[A]

Yeah, I think, I think it was more a kick.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Because I'm very aware of my defense. I'm always using shoulder roll and all this stuff so I don't get hit too much on my face on my fights. Yeah. But the kick when I want to, I need to be there, pressure him and all that. And the guy just kick with all his power. Just go into the arms and.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Kind of hurts.

[B]

Yeah. There's some videos of people just kicking boards. Like even Joe Rogan has a pretty.

[A]

Yeah, yeah, I saw this one. Yeah. Joe Rogan is a monster, brother.

[B]

I can't believe how strong these kicks are.

[A]

Yeah, his spinny heel kick is strong, bro. It's crazy. He's.

[B]

People don't know how much a kick hurts.

[A]

Yeah, yeah, it's. It's crazy about this sport is even when you kick someone, you hurt your leg.

[B]

Oh, really?

[A]

Yeah, it hurts, you know, like a good connected kick. Yeah.

[B]

Anderson Silver lost because of that, right?

[A]

Yeah, he. He broke his shin.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Two parts of it.

[B]

So you got to really aim where you're kicking.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

But also have power.

[A]

So it's difficult. Exactly. Not just kicking, you know, because you can kick elbow with your feet and then the fight will be different, but after that because you can like step anymore, you cannot kick anymore. I broke a foot kicking a guy, you know, in a. Training it 10 days before my fight.

[B]

Oh my God.

[A]

Yeah, it was crazy.

[B]

You had to pull out or.

[A]

No, no, I, I still managed to. To fight. I couldn't kick on the fight. I did a lot of infiltration, you know, so some anti inflammatory and all that painkillers and all that, so I could just go and fight. And then I knocked the guy out in the first round and then. But after the adrenaline was gone, after the guy just raising my hand, I couldn't like walk, so it was crazy.

[B]

Yeah, a lot of people have to fight on injuries, right?

[A]

Yeah, yeah, that's kind of normal in this sport. You know, we. Because it's, It's a hard sport. You know, it's a combat sport, but it's a hard sport. You need to be training everything, not just like punching, kinking, but wrestling and defense and all that. So the injuries is kind of common in the sport, you know, and a lot of guys needs to make. Needs to make money, needs to fulfill their families and all that, and it's hard to get out of a fight.

[B]

But was that the main reason you got into it? Was it for the money?

[A]

No, no, not for the money. I think I got into it because I wanted to prove myself. Because back in the days when I was young, all my friends, they play fighting and all that. I always like it, like movie from Bruce Lee, Jackson, John Clovendam and all these guys. But I was always like a kid full of fear. I was fear. I had fear of hurting myself if I was fighting on the streets, you know, and then I still have this image on my, on my, on my brain, on my head. Then I got. We were like playing fighting. And then one guy took it seriously and said, in the middle of a lot of kids, you just stop fighting. Everyone, just you and me, let's go. And I was like, petrified. And I was like, no, no, I'm going home. And then went home and then stick it to me so long, you know, like, not only people making fun of that, but with myself, you know, I was like, fuck, I should have gone there. You know, what should have happened? You know, I just go there and fight. It doesn't matter if I'm going to beat his ass or he's going to beat my ass, but just go down, fight. And I was like, oh. And then I. I always did judo when I was young. I started at judo at six years old, but there was always this feeling on me like, I need to prove myself. I'm not this fearful kid, you know. And then maybe unconscious, that's. I just got it later in my career, but maybe unconscious. That's why I started fighting, you know, because I wanted to prove not only people, but myself that I could take it, you know, I could face adversities and go there and Be courageous and all that, you know? So. Yeah.

[B]

Did you end up challenging him for the rematch?

[A]

No, no, no, no. I never saw him anymore in my life.

[B]

I'm sure he must be watching.

[A]

Yeah, maybe. And maybe he's insane to people. Oh, I challenged this guy and.

[B]

Yeah, that's funny. So a lot of. A lot of street fights growing up in Brazil, though.

[A]

A few ones. A few ones. It was more like we were most like, playing fighting practice, like, playing fighting, you know, let's fight. Let's just, like, having fun, you know what I mean? Because fighting is our DNA, you know? And since, like, the beginning of the world, you know, we need to fight to protect our families, to get food, to protect our people and all that. And people like it, you know? And then when you're a kid watching movies and Jackson and all these guys, you just want to play, like, pretend that you are these guys, you know? So I kind of not. Not grew up in a place that there was a lot of street fights, but definitely there are some places there that people grow up fighting.

[B]

Yeah, well, Brazil has a lot of really good fighters. Yeah, there's something about that culture, Right?

[A]

Something about the. Yeah, I think the hard times, you know, and we need to adapt to something to prove that we're good, you know, because it's hard time in Brazil, and. And I think that's why, you know, and then we have this Jiu Jitsu background, because Gracie family was from Brazil, the Jiu Jitsu came from Brazil. And then I think we got this in our blood, you know, so. And then we see a lot of guys doing good in fighting and all that. If you see their background, they grow up poor, having nothing, and that was their only option in life. So there was no, like, plan B, you know, just go there, fight to get money to fulfill your family, you know?

[B]

Yes, Charles Olivero, right?

[A]

Yeah, exactly. He came from very poor background. Yeah, yeah.

[B]

The favelas.

[A]

The favelas, yes.

[B]

Have you been over there?

[A]

I've been over a few favelas, yeah. But I didn't grow up in a favela, actually. I grew up in a good family like my mom. I'm very grateful for her because she worked every day from 7 to 7.

[B]

Jeez.

[A]

To, you know, just 12 hours a day. Yeah. And since. And she had. She had me when I was. When she. She was 18 years old.

[B]

Wow.

[A]

So she was very young. So he need to. She need to start working very young and then. Yeah, but. But she always work her ass off to make me be In a good schools, have a good education, speak English and, you know, English schools and all that. And it's all worth enough. Wow.

[B]

Shout out to her.

[A]

Yeah, shout out to my mom. Love your mom.

[B]

So did you want to come to America as a kid?

[A]

Yeah. In Brazil, we always have this dream to come to America, to Disney World and all that, you know, because we see all the movies and this. And it's actually funny because the first time I was in Vegas, I was looking all the. The casinos in the resorts and was like, oh, I saw that movie with this, you know, business. Yeah. The Hangover. The 13 guys in one secret. I don't know the name in English. I don't know that one. Yeah, he said that with Brad Pitt and all that. I don't. Brad Pitt. Yeah. The guys that rob, they rob, like, they.

[B]

Oh, I know. You're talking Ocean's Thirteen.

[A]

Oh, she's 13.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Perfect. That. That movie. That. That movie stick a lot with me. And when I was. When I was here in the first. First time I was here was like, yeah, I'm on the movie.

[B]

Yeah, that's a great movie.

[A]

Yeah. Yeah, that was a good one. Yeah.

[B]

That must have felt really amazing when you came here then.

[A]

Yeah, for sure. Because not only that, but I was coming here to. To fulfill my dream to get into the ufc. So I came here first time to do photo shoot and all that for the container. You know, it's exciting. You know, you're coming. You need to fight for your life, fight for your career, and fight to fulfill your family, and everything works out very good.

[B]

Yeah, because that's serious. They only take the top.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

One or two guys.

[A]

Right? Exactly. It doesn't. It's not just about winning, but have a good performances. And with me is even more. Was even more hard because I. I fought one day on September 28th in 2021. I won. He was a tough guy, like, top one in America, and I won, but I dominated two rounds. In the third round, I slowed down a little bit because I knew I already won the fight. So I slowed down a little bit, and I think then I didn't like that much. And then when it came to do to give the contracts to everyone, he's like, oh, it was a good fight, but I'm not interested at this time. Maybe keep working and we'll have you here again.

[B]

Wow.

[A]

And then I came back to the hotel, I was like, what did I miss it? You know, Like, I think I did everything because it's hard for us. From Brazil Come here and win a fight, it's even harder, you know? And then I was like. But I spoke to my manager and told him, like, tell the guys from the ufc, I'm gonna get my purse from this fight. I'm gonna stay in America. I'm gonna pay for everything. I'm gonna put my money on it. I'm gonna stay here. If there's any fight that goes off or anything, just call me. I'll be ready. It doesn't matter if it's 185, 205, I wouldn't care. I just wanted to be here, and I wouldn't leave this town without my contract. You know, there was a lot of years of sacrifice, and I left my family in my hometown to go to Sao Paulo. Spent like eight years to get into the Contender Series, working every day doing the same thing. And then it was on Tuesday they fight, and then on Thursday, my manager came to me in the morning and said, bro, I think we got another fight. And I was like, yeah, I don't care. Let's go. And said, okay, he's in three weeks. And is it 205? He's 1 1. I'm. I'm 185. So 205 is 1 higher than my original weight class. And then I was like, I don't care. I will be. I will go there, and this time, I'm gonna knock the guy out. I'm gonna scream to Dana, this is my place. And that's what I did. I came into the fight, in the first round, I knocked the guy out and came to Dana and said, bro, this is my place. I bel. Give him my contract, please. And then he gave me the contract. It was, like, life changing moment, you know?

[B]

I love that. What a story, man. Yeah, you're right. You put in 10 years just to get to this point. Yeah, just to get in the UFC.

[A]

Yeah, almost 10 years. Like eight years. Well, no, I. I moved from. I'm from San Luis Mar. Is Northeast Brazil. And then I moved to Sao Paulo in 2014. I just got the call to go to the contender series on 2021. So it was like seven years doing the same thing every day, twice or three times a day. And I dealt with a lot of injuries. So I had three surgeries on my shoulder, left shoulder, and two surgeries on my left knee. So I've been through all of this in my career, and kind of my career slowed down a little bit because of that, because every surgery was, like, six months out. Wow. And it was like five Surgeries, you know, and it was crazy because you're still young man. Yeah, exactly. So I passed through this. I was always believing that I'm gonna make. Make it happen, make it work. And it happened. Yeah.

[B]

And then once you get in, you're not. You're not content. Right. You got to keep going.

[A]

Yeah, exactly, exactly. That's. That's what I was always on my head. Like, the first. First time you get into fc, you get a contract with four fights, but if you lose two fights, sometimes three. But if you lose two of these four fights, you're out. Damn. So imagine you go there in UFC seven years to get in there, and then you go there, you have one fight and already had big stage, no cameras, is a different from the other organizations. And then you lose, and then you go back again and lose all in six months, and then you're out. So imagine that probably half the. A lot of people. A lot of the medium number of fights that people do in the UFC is four. Wow. Yeah. The guy that passed through it is the guy that are good and make it happen, but it's a very small percentage of the guys.

[B]

It's crazy because you see it in other sports, too. With the NFL, the average career is two years.

[A]

Huh? For NFL, yeah. Yeah, for sure. For sure.

[B]

They want their whole lives to become a professional athlete, and then you're two,

[A]

three years, and that's it. Yeah, but they make a lot of money. Yeah.

[B]

Different filmmakers, a lot.

[A]

Like, I'm never complaining. I will never complain about the money. You'll see it gives me good money. I'm working myself to get good money, Sponsorships and all that. But it's not even compared to what these guys make. You know, these guys made like 2, 3, 4 million millions a year, and they. Even if they are injured, they still make money. If you're injured, if you don't fight, you just make money when you fight.

[B]

Oh, wow.

[A]

Yeah. So that's why I started to develop my media, my English and all this stuff, just because I know that the. The money that comes from fighting is good, but it's not enough, you know? So we need to have good brand, build a good brand and be a good, good person to represent other people's brand. And then you get some sponsorships, and that's when your life becomes a little bit more easier.

[B]

Stable.

[A]

Stable, yeah.

[B]

That's smart. Actually, when you study the top athletes in the world, they make more money. Not from the sport exactly. They make it from business, sponsorships and deals.

[A]

Exactly. That's what we need to be focused on, you know, but at the same time, if you don't win fights, you don't appear. And then in the start of a career to. Mainly if you don't win fights, this punch is not going to come because they want exposure, right? So, yeah, you need to win fights and you need to work on your media a lot, you know, So I put a lot of money on my media team. I have my sister that works with me. I have two camera guys editing and filming almost every day, my YouTube channel. Now I'm with only fans stake and all these sponsorships and I'm good.

[B]

I love it, man. Did, did the first loss affect you mentally? Was that pretty tough to swallow for you?

[A]

Yeah, my first loss was in my second fight. And then I think that was the most important moment of my life because I came from judo background. So when you're like, like when you come from background, you just want to use your background and you think that you're gonna solve the. All the problems with that. And then I lost it. My. I won my first fight and then my second fight, it was in my homet. I came back from Sao Paulo to my hometown to fight in front of my family, everyone. And then I came in there and I lost.

[B]

Wow.

[A]

Just because I wasn't like, feeling good enough on the feet. I wasn't just trying to take the guy down. The guy, actually, I took him down, won the first round, but I got tired. And then I was just surviving the other two rounds and then I was like, oh, I need to work on something. And then my coach came to me and said, kyle, Pablo, this is my coach. So he came to me and said, you're not going to fight MMA for a little bit of time. You need to be more calm when you're fighting. So you need to be more calm on striking because your grappling is good, your throws are good, your wrestling is good, but if you don't develop your striking, you're not going to make much in this sport. And then he came to me and said, I'm going to put you to fight Muay Thai in boxing only, so you'll be more used to the feeling to get punched in the face and all that. So I think in a matter of a year, I did almost like 25 fights. Wow. And then Muay Thai, kickboxing, boxing, I was everywhere fighting and training and all that. And then there was a time that he was like, okay, now you're good. Now we're back to mma. And Then I wasn't defeated since September last year. So I was 10 years undefeated. Wow.

[B]

That's one of the longest streaks ever, right, in the UFC. 10 years?

[A]

Yeah. It wasn't in the UFC. In the UFC, it was a seven fight win streak. So seven fighting undefeated. But all my career was 16 fight wins. Yeah. So 10 years.

[B]

Yeah, but seven in the UFC, I think that's one of the longest.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Because Jake Shields had a long one.

[A]

Yeah. There's a lot of guys that had a little bit longer than that. But from Brazil, there was one guy that was undefeated for 15 or 16 fight. It was Anderson Silva.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

Before him, it's me. I'm the second. Yeah. Seven fight win streak. That's not from Brazil.

[B]

Yeah. So did this loss that ended the streak, did that really affect.

[A]

Yeah, yeah, affected because I needed to make a little change, a little adaptations on my game. For sure. The. The camp was a nightmare. Everything went so bad. But it is what it is. The guy adapted very well. He did a great job winning. And it affected me, but it affected me to a good thing. You know, it makes me and my team reunite together. And we were talking about, like, we need to be more united. You know, you need to be more closed, you know, more. More concerned about other things. Not only that, the strategy and all that. And then we change a lot of things. And we adapted very well. Right now we're more united than ever. They're here with me. Three weeks, they left their families, they came in to Vegas. We here. Three weeks in the same house having lunch, dinner, watching and training, and spend a whole day together. So it. It really brings the energy up. And then I think right now we're ready for another win streak.

[B]

Let's go, baby.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So the loss you. So the training camp went bad, you said, for that loss?

[A]

Yeah, yeah. It was a nightmare, brother.

[B]

Injuries and.

[A]

Yes. Yeah. Like healthy problems and. And then five weeks before this fight, I was the main event to fight in Paris with the number one contender guy in the world, number one ranker guy in the world. And whoever wins would go for the title.

[B]

Wow.

[A]

And then. But five weeks before this fight, I got a call from the UFC to be the backup fighter for the title. So in this. Back. In this title fight, it was three weeks before this previous fight, and then I needed to cut weight twice because I cut away, I made weight, I was ready to go, but the other guys made weight, everything went smooth, and then they wouldn't image need me. And then I needed to go back from Chicago to Brazil again. And I was there for, like, more two weeks and then go back to Paris to fight and could wait again, you know? Yeah.

[B]

You couldn't get acclimated. You could.

[A]

Yeah, yeah. Like, I couldn't get used to the city, you know, like.

[B]

Because you need to usually fly in like two months before, Right. Or a month before.

[A]

Yeah, at least. I would say at least like 15 days. Oh, two or three weeks. It's good to get a good acclimation and all that. But the problem is when I got this call from the UFC to go to the. A backup fight, I needed to go straight to Vegas in the other day because I needed to fix my visa, so I needed to come alone by myself without my team because they were having another camps going on over there. So I need to came here alone and spend like 12 days alone here training, made wait for the fight, and then came back and then I had the biggest fight of my career in three weeks again. Wow. And then it took away again and all that. So in. In the training camp, I had lung infection, was taking antibiotics for, like, four weeks.

[B]

Holy.

[A]

Had like, lung infection for, like, two months.

[B]

That's what Ben Askren had, right?

[A]

Yeah, exactly. Exactly. I had, like, almost the same. Of course, not the same thing.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Yeah. But I needed to get the antibiotics and all this shitty stuff, and then.

[B]

That's scary.

[A]

That was crazy.

[B]

Yeah. The long stuff scares me, man.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And that comes from the mats, right?

[A]

Yeah, from the mass, from. From the air, from everywhere. You know, there's mold in the gyms, probably. Yes, exactly. And I had osma.

[B]

Asthma.

[A]

Yeah, Asthma when I was young, so I had a lot of trouble with asthma growing up. Green growing up.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Not many problems with that, but every time I get a big infection, it affects my lungs and then. Yeah, it was tough.

[B]

That's rough.

[A]

Yeah. If. If I would change something right now, if they offer me again to be the backup fighter with a fight scheduled three weeks after, I wouldn't take it.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

You know what I mean?

[B]

Yeah. Three weeks.

[A]

Yeah. I was just thinking about, like, imagine if I say no, and then go into the title fight and some of the guys don't make weight or get hurt, and it was supposed to be me, and I said no. I wouldn't forgive myself. So in the first time, I need to make this run.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

But right now, I don't think I need anymore, you know?

[B]

I love that, man.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

You still playing chess? I saw you were playing chess.

[A]

Yeah, a little bit, actually. I'm a wild. There's a while that I'm not playing that much and I'm focusing on other things and all this stuff and. But I used to play. I used to play when I was young.

[B]

I love to play. One of these days.

[A]

Yeah, for sure. Come on. You're gonna be my answer. I need to train a little bit more. Give me some months to train, then we can play.

[B]

That's the one thing I could beat you in.

[A]

Definitely.

[B]

You still watching anime or you got no time for that?

[A]

Yeah, I don't nowadays. I don't watch anymore. Like too much. Almost nothing on anime and. But growing up, I was very. A big fan of anything, you know? Yeah, exactly. Like Dragon Ball Z. The Naruto.

[B]

What did you watch? Naruto.

[A]

Naruto is the. Yeah, it's my favorite one. Yeah. Actually, Naruto inspired me a lot.

[B]

Really?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Did you like the original one or the Shippuden?

[A]

No, the original was good. The Shippuden was good. The new one, I don't watch bars. Yeah. Yeah. I don't like that much, but I think the original one in the Shippuden, the best thing. Yeah. And teaches. Teaches you so much. As a kid, as a young guy, it teaches you so much, you know. Naruto has a lot to teach you. Agree. You know, resilience, believe in yourself and all this. You need to have this, you know? Exactly.

[B]

Yeah. Naruto is a good one. Bleach.

[A]

Bleach. I. I watch a few episodes of Bleach.

[B]

One Piece.

[A]

One piece. A few episodes.

[B]

So many episodes.

[A]

There's a lot. I couldn't just catch up, you know. And I was like, no, no, I gave up on that one. Yeah.

[B]

Too many.

[A]

I think I. Good. Too many, man. But they're. But they're good, good, good anime. The anime has this kind of paper to make you believe in yourself. Make you. You know, you wanted to be like them. When you grow up watching them, you wanted to be like them. So you get all this. The good things about the characters and all that. And then it's good. It's good. I like it for sure. Yeah.

[B]

Have you seen your lifestyle change since you first entered? Like, has the fame got to you? The money changed your lifestyle a lot.

[A]

I would say. He gave me more. I'm more comfortable right now, more stable, you know, I can fulfill my family and help my family from the northeast, Brazil. I can help them and I can help, you know, having my sister work with me. My. My uncle is the guy that filmed me and all the edits and all that. But in a matter of, like, changing the way I am and all that. No. Really don't care. Yeah. Like, y'. All. Comes a goal, you know, you leave this world with nothing, you know, so. Doesn't matter to me, you know?

[B]

Yeah. I'm always fascinated by that because some fires and some pro athletes, sometimes the fame gets to them, I think.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And it's the downfall of their.

[A]

Yeah, exactly, exactly. I think it always comes the way you grew up, you know, the things that you didn't have when you were young and now you can have all that. And then it kind of. It's. It's very, very small. It's little by little, but changes you a little bit, you know what I mean? And. But I would. I wouldn't say that I changed at all, you know, I'm still the same guy. Helping a lot of people from my gym, my family, all the people that I know, and be the. The same guy that. Laughs. They had that dream, you know. Now I had a 2. A son and a daughter, you know, and all that. So.

[B]

Twins or separate?

[A]

No, separate. Oh, no. My son Liam, he's two years and four months. Five months. And my daughter is three months old.

[B]

Beautiful.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

How's having kids really change your perspective on life?

[A]

100.

[B]

I just got married. I want to have kids soon.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

I'm pretty excited.

[A]

It's the best thing in the world, brother, is for sure. It's a lot of work, you know, It's a lot of work to do. A lot of. A big responsibility because you're a mirror for them, you know, and you need to change. Like, you need to at least pay attention what you're doing and saying, and. And all that makes you a better man for sure, you know? Think my son and my daughter made me a better man.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

My better version of myself. A better human being, you know, Because I want them to have a good example in life, you know, a good. I want to be a good mirror for them, you know, because they mimic everything you do. They just want to be like you. You're their superheroes, you know, And I think it changes everything, brother, you know?

[B]

Can't wait.

[A]

Yeah, brother, you're gonna love it.

[B]

I know your kids are young, but would you want them to pursue your lifestyle of fighting?

[A]

If I want, I would say no, like, a hundred percent. They will grow up in martial arts because I think martial arts is the best thing for kids.

[B]

Discipline.

[A]

Yeah, Discipline, self confidence, a lot of things. You learn to lose, to win, to deal with losses, to deal with Winning, too, and definitely 100%. My kid goes to the gym with me almost every day. Wow. He trains. He likes to punch bags, he likes to do everything. But to be a fighter. Only if he wants. Like, I'm not going to force him. Of course, if he wants, I will support him. Like, I will be his coach. I will do training with him to make him him. If he wants to be the best, I will help him with that, you know, but it's a tough life, you know, and it's a. It affects you a lot. Not just physically, but mentally. You have to deal with all that and it's just in a matter of if he wants or not.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

For me, I don't care. He wants. He. He can be whatever he wants, you know?

[B]

Yeah. It's a good point. I also noticed a lot of the top fighters had really challenging upbringings.

[A]

Challenge what?

[B]

Challenging childhood.

[A]

Oh, yeah, yeah.

[B]

There seems to be a similar pattern with. They had tough times growing up. You know what I mean?

[A]

Exactly.

[B]

Trauma.

[A]

Yeah, that's. That's what make you tough.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

You know what I mean? And then I'm working for him to have the, the minimal traumas on his. You know what I mean? For sure the trauma makes you tough, makes you develop yourself and all that. But I can, I think he can learn and develop from the traumas that I had and then I can teach him things and all this. I don't think he will need to have a lot of traumas, a lot of all this that we've been through, you know, and fighter's life is a tough life. Oh, yeah, yeah. So. So for sure, if he wants. Okay, let's go, kid. 100 all wing. But if he wants to be any other thing, I will support him for sure. Hard in my life.

[B]

Yeah. Fighters, I feel like they're always on edge because there's no stability. Stability, right.

[A]

Yes, exactly.

[B]

Like you don't have guaranteed money coming in. You got to earn your money.

[A]

Exactly. And if you get hurt, you don't make money.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

You know, so that's a tough life,

[B]

you know, Pay the coach and pay

[A]

the team, pay everyone, pay the bills, pay everything. You don't even know what's going to happen. You know, suddenly in the middle of the training, you can hurt yourself. If you tone your acl, for example, your knee, you'll be one year out.

[B]

Geez.

[A]

How are you going to make money? How are you going to give food to your family? One, one year out.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

You know what I mean? So it's a. It's a tough life.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Well, dude, I can't wait to watch your next fight. I'll be there in person.

[A]

Oh, come on man, I would love to. Yeah, it'll be very, I'll be very honorable and I think it's going to be a big fight. Great fight.

[B]

Yeah, I can't wait. In the meantime, where can people support you, watch you and do all that stuff?

[A]

Yeah, yeah.

[B]

Where can people find you? What, social media?

[A]

Yeah, they can find me on Insta IG, Kyle Bohalio, they can find my YouTube channel, Kyle the Natural Ohio. That's my only fans channel to the not so you know, I put a lot of traveling and all this stuff over there and I'm always there doing contents to people, you know. And I do a lot of contest with Steak, that's my main main sponsor. Sponsor, right. And I do a lot of picks from fighting and all that and people can watch that too, you know, so. Yeah, definitely. That place is good.

[B]

How's your record on the, the fighting, Betting on the fights? You pretty good?

[A]

I'm actually pretty good, yeah. Because I analyze a lot, you know, I watch, I kind of watch fight different, you know, and it comes because fighting is a very unpredictable thing. I think the most unpredictable sport in the world is fighting. But, but if you know how to search for patterns and the way the guy moves, his weakness, his strength, his strengths and all that, you kind of get it like who's gonna win or not, of course can change it all. That's why MMA is so amazing. But yeah, my record picking up fights is not bad. It's not bad at all.

[B]

Yeah, you got a good eye for it.

[A]

The last event on the, on the T mobile, I just, just got wrong. The main event, all the other fights, yeah, I had party win. Okay. Cuz body was one of my favorite fighters too. Maybe I choose with a lot of heart.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

No way from my mind, you know what I mean? Every other fight though, the, every other fighter and the way the fight ended too, no, I said, oh, this is going to be a decision. It was a decision. This is going to be a knockout, this is going to be submission. And I got it. All right.

[B]

But it's hard to do.

[A]

Betting Justin was tough.

[B]

That's hard to do. Done. So can you tell within the first two minutes of the fight, like kind of how it's going to play out

[A]

actually before the fight plays out.

[B]

Really?

[A]

Yeah. Before the fight I see the styles, how they match their styles, how the styles match and their weakness and strengths and all that, but when the fight starts, you kind of know how to see expressions. And if the guy is going to start to give up little by little or not. And then you can definitely be more precise after the fight start. But when you're betting, like, if you go in, if you go bad, when the fight already started, it's less odds, you know, if you bet before, better. Better odds.

[B]

You know, that makes sense.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Well, I gotta follow some of your picks then.

[A]

Yeah, come on, man. Make some money. Yeah, let's do it.

[B]

All right, guys, check them out. We'll link all the stuff in the video. See you next time. Peace. Thanks for watching all the way to the end, guys. It means a lot. Please click here if you want to watch the next episode and please subscribe to the show and subscribe. Helps us get more guests and helps grow the brand.