CJ Watson Reveals What It’s Like to Guard Kobe & LeBron | DSH #1617

Summary

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Digital Social Hour – Episode Summary

Podcast: Digital Social Hour
Host: Sean Kelly
Guest: C.J. Watson (Ex-NBA Player, Author, Angel Investor)
Episode: #1617 – "CJ Watson Reveals What It’s Like to Guard Kobe & LeBron"
Date: November 13, 2025

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Episode Overview

This episode dives deep into C.J. Watson's life, from his days as a tenacious NBA point guard to his ventures as a children's book author and angel investor. Host Sean Kelly and Watson explore basketball’s shifting eras, the challenge of guarding legends, life after the league, parenting, and giving back to the Las Vegas community. The conversation is candid and reflects Watson's straightforward perspective on both the glamorous and gritty realities of pro sports and life beyond.

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Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. Guarding the Greats: Kobe & LeBron

• Toughest Matchup:
  • Watson immediately points to Kobe Bryant as the hardest player he ever had to guard:

    "Kobe for sure. Kobe was just like... I don't know what I was doing. I was calling for a double team." (00:01)

  • He highlights the mismatch due to size and skill:

    "I was still a small point guard. You know, he's 6'6, 6'7. A lot different." (00:22)

• On Kobe and LeBron’s Mindset:
  • Watson gives insight into the impossibility of stopping players at that level one-on-one:

    "Yeah, you gotta, you know, gotta ask for help." (00:14, repeated vividly at 11:59) "You need two or three guys or a whole team... I don't think you'll ever shut them down, but you can make their night tough." (12:19)

  • When asked who’s truly 'unguardable':

    "Shay's unguardable, Joker, LeBron to an extent, Steph to an extent, KD...there's a lot of great players out there who are unguardable." (12:19)

  • On defending in previous NBA eras:

    "...that's why Jordan was so dynamic…he did all that in the era where you could punch people...if he played in this era, he'd be probably averaging 40 or 50 points." (12:59)

2. Changes in the NBA: Then and Now

• Shifting Role of Veterans:
  • "Vets were always playing. The rookies were never playing." (02:38)
  • Now, he sees a lack of mentorship:

    "There's no vets, hardly. There's no coaching, like no one to really show you the game or give you the wisdom." (02:48)

• Shorter Careers & Injuries:
  • On modern athletes' injury woes and short tenures:

    "They got to figure out the injury stuff...maybe shorten the season...a lot of games being played, a lot of back to backs." (03:27)

• Game Evolution:
  • Reflects on the rise of the Warriors and a more offense-focused league:

    "Golden State was coming up at that time...they were really one of the only teams that were just running and gunning, and everyone kind of tried to copy what they did." (05:31)

  • On Steph Curry’s rise:

    "No one would ever thought that he would be, you know, this big of a player. Superstar. Change the game like he did. But you saw the work ethic." (05:50)

• Comparing Eras:
  • "I would have thrived in like the one on one system...shooting the threes and getting to the foul line." (05:14)
  • On career longevity:

    "I hope [NBA careers aren’t getting shorter]…but with injuries and style [they might]." (03:20)

3. Playoff Insights & Derrick Rose Reflection

• Most Memorable Playoff Exit:
  • "Philadelphia when I was with the Bulls...we lost that, we should have won. Right when D. Rose got hurt the second year." (07:44)
  • Rose's impact:

    "I can only take you so far...without Derrick Rose, we're not going to go too far." (08:05)

  • Rose’s unique drive:

    "His mindset, his tenacity, just the way he worked...MVP year was like nothing I’ve ever seen before...he was taking it to the rack every time, but you couldn’t stop him." (08:10–08:44)

  • On Rose's athleticism:

    "It’s just athletic ability, just the will to get to the rim. He was super fast, super quick, especially on the speed of a dime." (08:54)

4. LeBron, Pacers/Heat Rivalry & 'Unguardables'

• Playing Against LeBron:
  • "My daughter still doesn’t like him to this day because he fouled me hard one time." (09:56)
  • On LeBron's playoff mode:

    "He just had to switch...especially in Miami, it was crazy." (10:17)

• Unguardable Players:
  • Names current elite stars who can't be covered one-on-one:

    "Shay's unguardable, Joker, LeBron to extent. Steph to an extent." (12:19)

• The GOAT Debate:

  "Right now, for me, it’s Jordan, Kobe, and then Bron." (13:26)

5. Impact of Social Media & Trades

• Social Media Pressure:
  • "When we lost...to Philadelphia, I got a lot of death threats for passing the ball." (14:05)
  • Shows resilience and detachment:

    "I feel like if someone wants to threaten me, they'll walk up to me and say it. None of those people who tweeted that would have come into my face and said that." (14:41)

• Modern Player Mobility:
  • "There’s definitely no loyalty...it’s a business...I think the players have a lot of say now, more than they ever did." (15:59)

6. Life After the NBA: Investing, Writing & Community

• Angel Investing:
  • Investments include Instacart and a professional pickleball team; interested in tech, wellness, and private equity.

    "I love the angel investing, private equity, VC world. It's always interesting to me." (16:56)

  • Goal: Make more in investing than his NBA earnings.

    "That was my goal—to make more off this venture than in my playing career." (17:22)

  • Influences and books:

    "The guy named Rashawn Williams...he's my mentor. He's on Shark Tank now." (17:39) "Why Should All The White Guys Have Fun?" and "Angel List" cited as his favorites. (17:56)

• Children’s Books & Animation:
  • Working to turn his books into a cartoon:

    "Trying to turn my books right now to a cartoon series...there’s not a lot of African American cartoons out there either, and ones that teach and preach positivity." (19:10–19:21)

• Quiet Storm Foundation:
  • Runs a foundation that provides free basketball, after-school health programming, and a Black history essay contest.

    "Just trying to empower kids, give them a different sense of humility, sense of being, and just a chance that knowing that they can go out there and make it." (19:39)

7. Parenthood, Vegas Living & Youth Sports

• Parenting Teenagers:

  "They just talk back. They think they know everything...but they'll come back eventually, hopefully." (00:59)

• Living in Las Vegas:
  • "Vegas is expensive now...you've gotta make at least $100,000 to be comfortable." (20:41)
  • Observes the larger changes, increasing cost, shifting sports culture, and potential for more pro sports teams in the city.
• Youth Sports View:
  • Did not push his kids to play sports, wary of mental health impacts:

    "I had a lot of friends with mental issues and depression...didn't really want them to go through that...But sports teaches a lot: resiliency, teamwork..." (22:07)

  • Critique of AAU basketball:

    "It's not about development for the AAU system. It's just about who can make the most money off a kid and a team..." (22:55)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Kobe Bryant’s Toughness:

  "Kobe for sure. Kobe was just like...I don't know what I was doing. I was calling for a double team." – C.J. Watson (00:01, 11:52)

• On Playing with Derrick Rose:

  "That MVP year was like nothing I've ever seen before...you knew he was taking it to the rack every time, but you couldn't stop him." – C.J. Watson (08:39)

• On GOATs:

  "Right now, for me, it’s Jordan, Kobe, and then Bron." – C.J. Watson (13:26)

• Candid on NBA Realities:

  "It’s a business...the players have a lot of say now, more than they ever did." – C.J. Watson (15:59)

• On Social Media Hate:

  "None of those people who tweeted that would have come into my face and said that." – C.J. Watson (14:41)

• Vegas’s Cost of Living:

  "Vegas is expensive now...you've gotta make at least $100,000 to be comfortable." – C.J. Watson (20:41)

• Real Talk on Youth Sports:

  "I said I would never be that parent because I've seen a lot of kids...their parents do that to their kids, and I didn't want that for my kid." – C.J. Watson (22:36)

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Timestamps for Major Segments

• [00:00–00:22] — What it’s really like to guard Kobe & LeBron
• [01:10–02:23] — Teenage years, focus on college, and career expectations
• [02:23–03:45] — Business side of NBA, length of NBA careers, and injuries
• [05:31–06:20] — Influence of Warriors, Steph Curry’s work ethic
• [07:44–08:44] — The Bulls, Derrick Rose, and playoff heartbreak
• [09:39–10:20] — Pacers/Heat playoff battles, LeBron’s playoff switch
• [12:19–12:59] — Who is unguardable in today’s NBA, defensive changes
• [13:15–13:39] — GOAT debate: Jordan, Kobe, Bron
• [14:05–14:52] — Social media hate and coping with criticism
• [15:16–15:59] — NBA trades, business, and player loyalty
• [16:56–17:22] — Angel investing, Instacart & pickleball
• [19:07–19:29] — Transition to children’s books and cartoons
• [22:07–22:55] — Parenting philosophies, AAU and youth sports

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Final Thoughts

C.J. Watson shares a nuanced outlook on life in and out of the NBA: the mental and physical challenges of guarding all-time greats, adapting to a changing league, life after basketball, and building a lasting legacy through business and philanthropy. His grounded, practical perspective is especially valuable for anyone interested in the human side of pro sports, family, and personal reinvention.

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Transcript

[A]

Was that like the toughest matchup you've.

[B]

Ever had to guard him or Kobe? Kobe for sure. Yeah, Kobe. Kobe was just like. I don't know what I was doing. I was calling for a double team.

[A]

Yeah. One on one against Kobe. What are you gonna do?

[B]

Yeah, yeah, you gotta, you know, gotta ask for help.

[A]

So. Yeah.

[B]

I don't know why Coach Nelson asked me to guard him.

[A]

Well, you were known as the guard, the defender, right?

[B]

Yeah, but I was still a small point guard. You know, he's six six, six, six, seven. A lot different.

[A]

All right, guys, got C.J. watson here, Vegas local, former NBA player, children's author, children book author. Right?

[B]

Yep.

[A]

Yeah. What's. What's new with you lately, man?

[B]

Nothing, man. Just getting ready for school. I got three kids, so they're about to start school again, so that time's coming around again.

[A]

Nice. What grades?

[B]

One's about to be a senior, fourth grade and then pre K. Which age.

[A]

Range do you think is the toughest.

[B]

To parent right now? Teenager.

[A]

Teenager. What makes teenagers so difficult?

[B]

They just talk back. They think they know everything. You know, you can't really tell them anything, but, you know, they'll come back eventually, hopefully.

[A]

I feel like that's a rebellious phase for a lot of people, right?

[B]

Yeah, yeah, for sure. Yeah.

[A]

I wonder what the science is behind that.

[B]

Honestly, That's a good question.

[A]

Yeah, Yeah. I just. Even myself, I just started talking back a lot to my mother at that age.

[B]

Yeah, I mean, I think as a teenager, you're trying to get independency, so you think you're, you know, you know everything and just trying to go into it. And I think you know everything about the world, which you don't, so. Still a lot to learn.

[A]

Was basketball your main focus at the teenage years?

[B]

Basketball, yeah, for sure. Yeah, yeah. Basketball and just. Yeah, just having fun with my friends.

[A]

So you knew very early you wanted to hoop?

[B]

I knew I wanted to go to college. I knew I wanted to, you know, help my parents on the financial side for not having to pay for college. So that was my whole focus of getting into basketball and just getting good grades and stuff like that.

[A]

Okay, so college was your ceiling.

[B]

Yeah, yeah, for sure.

[A]

So you didn't even think NBA.

[B]

All my dad's friends, when I see them now, they said I did, but I don't remember it. I just remember just having fun playing basketball and then wanting to go to college. But I think once I got to college, I figured out that NBA was close. So I was like, hey, I'm Take it serious.

[A]

Was that transition from high school to college pretty tough?

[B]

No, not really. I think it was just more so. Just learning the game, learning the speed of the game and then learning the ways I can score, you know, ways I can, you know, get, get to my spots in the court and also help my teammates out.

[A]

Nice. What about college to NBA transition?

[B]

Very tough. It was more, more so on the business side, I think. Just trying to figure out, you know, how to be, how to have a long career and not just, you know, have a two or three year career, but have like a 10, you know, 12 year career.

[A]

Right. And back then when you, your era, they valued the vets, right. So they would trade them over the new guys.

[B]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Vets were always playing. The rookies were never playing. So it was very hard as a rookie to get on the court unless you went to like a terrible team when they knew you had a lot of playing time.

[A]

Now I feel like it's the opposite, right?

[B]

Yeah. Yeah, for sure. Yeah. There's no vets, Harley. There's no coaching like no, no one to really show you the, the game or give you the wisdom or knowledge, the stuff that they learned. I feel like you got to go out and search for it.

[A]

Right. I feel like there should be a middle ground there.

[B]

Yeah, there should be. I definitely think it should be more vets because like I said, it makes the league better, it makes it last longer. Makes guys, you know, play for, you know, for another four or five years. But also just like I said, just learning from, from others mistakes. I think that's the, that's a good thing about life.

[A]

I wonder if the NBA is going to head towards a shorter career span like the NFL is right now.

[B]

I, I hope not.

[A]

I mean, just based off the current like. Yeah, because now you need to be athletic, you need to shoot.

[B]

Yeah, yeah.

[A]

People are getting injured.

[B]

Yeah. A lot more. I think they got to figure out the injury stuff. You know, it may be short in the season. You know, a lot of games being played, a lot of back to back. So. But I doubt that will ever, the back to backs at least will ever change.

[A]

You don't think so?

[B]

I don't think so.

[A]

It wouldn't make sense for the calendar, I guess.

[B]

Right? Yeah, yeah. I think they can shorten the games a little bit, but not the back to back. So you know, they got to make money. So.

[A]

Yeah, I think what, eight ACL tears this year?

[B]

Yeah. A lot of big, big name players. Yeah, I think they all won number zero too. Which is crazy.

[A]

I know. We don't have to get confused.

[B]

I'm not a conspiracy.

[A]

And pink shoes.

[B]

Were they all wearing pink shoes?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

That's crazy.

[A]

Crazy, right?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

I don't know. I know.

[B]

They've got the pink shoes.

[A]

Yeah. Gilbert wore 02 and he used to get injured a lot.

[B]

Yeah. Yeah. That's cool. Crazy.

[A]

I don't know, man.

[B]

Don't wear pink.

[A]

Yeah. Can't wear pink. What'd you think of the playoffs this year? Did you watch them?

[B]

Yeah, yeah, I watched it a lot. It was great. I mean, it's great basketball. I definitely didn't see OKC going that far.

[A]

Oh, really?

[B]

Not that far? At least.

[A]

Even the one seed.

[B]

Yeah. I thought Denver would have upset him. Okay. So I thought Denver was a more experienced team, but, you know, youth is a great thing. And when you got one of the best players on the planet, you know, and Shay chose a lot. Yeah, his team just rode with him.

[A]

Well, MPJ was injured. He announced it after, but he couldn't even shoot or something.

[B]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's tough. Yeah, it happens. You know, it's a long season, grueling season, and it's got to make sure your body's up for it.

[A]

My trainer said during that series, whoever wins that series is winning the chip.

[B]

Yeah, that's what I said to you.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

But nobody listened.

[A]

You, you like the. You think you could play in the game right now, though?

[B]

Like today?

[A]

No, like, if you had your talent in your peak, like.

[B]

Oh, I think so. Yeah. I think it all transfers. I think I was a player who did. I didn't. I wasn't really good at one particular thing. I was decent in a whole bunch of things. So I definitely think he would have transferred. I would have figured it out.

[A]

Yeah. I always wonder because people compare eras. Right now it's just such a different game than when you played.

[B]

Yeah, a lot faster. I think I would definitely would have thrived in like the one on one system and like shooting the threes and getting to the foul line and stuff like that. But yeah, I think it would definitely been fun to play in this era because, I mean, it's all offense, really.

[A]

Did you see it turning into the way it is now? Like, did you see that while you were playing at all?

[B]

I don't. I wouldn't say I saw it, but I saw, you know, you know, Golden State was coming up at that time. They were really one of the only teams that were just Running Gun and everyone tried to kind of copy what they did. But every team is not built like that, so it was definitely fun to be able to kind of see that error kind of start and transcend.

[A]

Yeah. And you played with stuff, right? Young stuff.

[B]

Yeah, yeah. Young stuff. Yeah. No one would ever thought that he would be, you know, this big of a player. Superstar.

[A]

Right.

[B]

Change the game like he did. But you saw the work ethic. You saw the tenacity, the. The will to be great and stuff like that.

[A]

That's what I hear. Even from his former teammates, they're like. They have no idea.

[B]

Yeah, yeah. I mean, it just happens, man. He just. It just happens. He has. He's had a lot of ups and downs, too, so, you know, it comes with the territory just for anybody. So it's just part of his story.

[A]

Yeah. I think his mindset is underrated.

[B]

Yeah. Yeah, for sure.

[A]

Because he had all those ankle injuries early on, like you said. He could have probably retired younger.

[B]

Yeah. Give it up and quit and all that kind of stuff, so. But he stuck with it and got healthy and now is one of the greatest players ever.

[A]

Crazy. You think Golden State will get another one while he's there?

[B]

No, I don't think so. Oh, I might piss him off now with the team they got. I mean, you gotta be realistic. Okay. I mean, he's getting older, which is, you know, it's a part of basketball, part of sports, but not with the team they got.

[A]

What do you think they need to change? Because they can. I think they could still win with Steph, though, right?

[B]

I think they can still win with stuff. They need another star, like, you know, who can. Who can dominate the ball. Like, Jimmy is a star, but he's not a dominant offensive player. He gets the buckets, but not to the way, like Steph does or KD or somebody like that. And they need a big. They don't have any bigs to protect the rim, and Draymond can only do so much.

[A]

That's what happened to my Lakers, man. No big.

[B]

Yeah, no big.

[A]

I think with a good big, they would have won.

[B]

Yeah. You think Aiden's going to be the.

[A]

Let's be honest.

[B]

Glad you said it.

[A]

Not me. I mean, like, just. I like playoff history with players, and the mindset's important to me. I don't know if Ayton. He has to prove himself still.

[B]

For sure. Yeah. I think Bron could bring that out of him, though. You know, you never know. So.

[A]

Yeah, I mean, some players, you probably experienced this, are just really consistent in the regular season, but I think when it comes to the playoffs. The mindset is. Kicks in, right?

[B]

Yeah, yeah, the mindset, the pressure, the lights. You know, it's a different. Different pressure when you're in the playoffs because you know it's win or go home. So if you don't do well, you know, it all rides on you.

[A]

Yeah. Which playoff series that you played in still. You still think about the one with.

[B]

Philadelphia when I was with the Bulls.

[A]

Yeah, yeah.

[B]

We lost that. We should have won. Right. When D. Rose got hurt the second year. And.

[A]

Yeah, if you won that one, you would have won the. You think you would have won the chip that year?

[B]

I don't know if we would have won the chip. We would have. Definitely want to. I think we would be Boston and went to the Eastern Conference finals again.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

But. Yeah, I mean, without Derrick Rose, I mean, we're not going to go too far.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I can only take you so far.

[A]

What was it like playing with him and just learning from him?

[B]

It was cool, man. It was cool just to see him grow as a player. Seeing him before, I knew a little bit about him, but didn't know how good he was. Just seeing his mindset, his tenacity, just the way he worked. But he put in a lot of.

[A]

Work if he didn't get injured. It's one of those what if videos, right? Yeah. His ceiling was.

[B]

It was crazy. Yeah. I seen a lot of all star players kind of say they were sick because they didn't want to guard D. Rose at night.

[A]

Crazy, bro.

[B]

So. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I won't name any names.

[A]

He was relentless.

[B]

Yeah, he was crazy that year. That MVP year was like nothing I've ever seen before.

[A]

And you knew he was taking it.

[B]

To the rack every time, but you couldn't stop him.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

You knew he wasn't gonna shoot a jump shot. He was either go to the rim, shoot a floater, or a dunk it.

[A]

You think he was just so much faster than everyone. What do you think it was?

[B]

It's just athletic ability, just the will to get to the rim. You know, I can't really knock this jumper down, but I'm gonna get there somehow, some way. And he had, like, all the moves. He was super fast, super quick, especially, like, on the speed of a dime. Like, he can stop on a dime and change directions like no other.

[A]

Right. A lot of players say he could have been the greatest point guard of all time if he didn't get in.

[B]

Oh, yeah, for sure. Yeah. I mean, he's still a great dude. Still had a great career. You know, doing well in life, so, you know, it. You know, it just happens to the best of him.

[A]

It was cool to see him develop a jumper later on in his career, too.

[B]

Yeah, yeah, for sure. Yeah, yeah, the jumper, you know, more. He was more talkative, I feel like. Yeah. I mean, it's just, I think as a. As a. As a person and a player, you grow over time as you get older, so it all happens. It all happens to the best of us.

[A]

Yeah. You still think about the Pacers Heat rivalry, too?

[B]

Yeah, yeah, that was. That was good rivalry. We once again, you know, guy named LeBron and his team beat us in the playoffs, so we couldn't get past him. But it was fun just to, you know, kind of play those games and be in that atmosphere and, you know, being close to being in the championship series.

[A]

Yeah. Did you ever talk to Bron on the court, get in his head, try to get in his head?

[B]

I didn't talk to him, but, you know, I just talk trash here and there. My daughter still doesn't like him to this day because he fouled me hard one time.

[A]

Oh, really?

[B]

Yeah, she didn't like that.

[A]

So he's not really like that, though, like.

[B]

No, no, no. It was just like, you know, in the heat of the game, it wasn't like, you know, bad or anything. Like a flagger in him. It's just like a hard foul. But he's like two, three times the size of me, so.

[A]

Yeah, he was different in the playoffs, man.

[B]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[A]

He just had to switch.

[B]

Yeah. Especially in Miami. It was like. It was crazy.

[A]

His athletic ability was that, like, the toughest matchup you've ever had to guard him or Kobe?

[B]

Kobe, for sure.

[A]

Yeah, Kobe.

[B]

Kobe was just like, you know, I don't know what I was doing. I was calling for a double team.

[A]

Yeah. One on one against Kobe. What are you gonna do?

[B]

Yeah, yeah. You gotta, you know, gotta ask for help, so.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Yeah. I don't know why. Coach Nelson.

[A]

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[B]

Guard him or Kobe? Kobe for sure. Yeah.

[A]

Kobe.

[B]

Kobe was just like, you know, I don't know what I was doing. I was calling for a double team.

[A]

Yeah. One on one against Kobe. What are you gonna do?

[B]

Yeah, yeah, you gotta, you know, gotta ask for help, so.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Yeah. I don't know why Coach Nelson asked me to guard him.

[A]

Well, you were known as the guard, the defender, right?

[B]

Yeah, but I was still a small point guard. You know, he was 6, 6, 6, 7.

[A]

So a lot different when you hear this term unguardable. Like, do you believe actually, like, people can be unguardable?

[B]

Oh, yeah, yeah, for sure. Yeah. Shay's unguardable, you know, Joker, LeBron to extent. You know, Steph to an extent. So, KD, you know, a lot of great players out there who are unguardable. You need two or three guys or a whole team, you know, to kind of stop them or I think. I don't think you'll ever shut them. Shut them down, but you'll. You can make their night tough.

[A]

Damn. So you think one on one that you just can't do anything?

[B]

One on one? Yeah, yeah, you can't. Especially with the elite players.

[A]

Wow, that's crazy to have a bag that deep that no one can guard you in the world.

[B]

Yeah, it's crazy.

[A]

Kyrie, would you put in that for sure.

[B]

It's a lot. It's a lot of guys one on one. That's tough guard.

[A]

I wonder if. Because I know defensively used to be able to put hands on people back in the day. I wonder if it's because they took that away.

[B]

Probably.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Yeah, A lot of that comes to it. You know, like, that's why Jordan was so kind of dynamic, because even how great he is, because he did all that in the era where you could punch people like, you know, damn near elbow them and do all that kind of stuff to him. So. But yeah, if he played in this era, he'd be probably averaging, you know, 40 or 50 points.

[A]

Damn. You think so?

[B]

For sure. Yeah.

[A]

Holy crap. So he's your goat, it sounds like. Yeah, Yeah, I know that's always a debate. What if Braun gets one or two more?

[B]

I think he moves ahead of Jordan.

[A]

Yeah. Yeah. Okay.

[B]

Right now, he's. For me, it's Jordan, Kobe, and then Braun.

[A]

Oh, you got Kobe over Braun.

[B]

Yeah, yeah.

[A]

Wow. That's. That's.

[B]

Everybody dismisses Kobe. I don't know why.

[A]

No, you're right, though. A lot of people do. Some people have Kobe outside their top 10.

[B]

Yeah. That's crazy to me.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I think they didn't watch a lot of basketball.

[A]

I don't know if it was Skip Bayless. Yeah, probably not. No. Skip's got the wildest takes.

[B]

Yeah. Yeah. I don't listen. I don't watch tv, so. Oh, yeah.

[A]

What do you think about him? Like, you never saw a clip about him.

[B]

I mean, I see clips here and there. Yeah. But I don't really, like, watch it to understand or think or just kind of recollect what he's saying or whatever, so. But yeah, a lot of his takes are outlandish.

[A]

I'm sure that's a component of the game that you didn't have to deal with the social media backlash, right?

[B]

Yeah, yeah. No. A little bit. Yeah. I mean, when we lost in the playoffs that year to Philadelphia, I got a lot of death threats.

[A]

Oh, shit.

[B]

For passing the ball, so. But yeah, I mean, like I said.

[A]

You were passing too much.

[B]

No. Well, it was like a last 10 seconds of the game, we're up by two, up by one. I passed it to my center, who before that, he made, like, every free throw, and he misses the two. That could have put us over three. And. And they come down, they get fouled, they hit both free throws, they go up one. So we lose the game in game six.

[A]

So you got to blame for that.

[B]

I got to blame for it.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

But, you know, it is what it is.

[A]

That's rough. Did that really affect you mentally getting those toughs?

[B]

No, no, no, no. I feel like social media at that time was, like, just starting, so. And even then, I feel like if someone wants to threaten me, they'll walk up to me and say it. So none of those people who tweeted that Will would have said came into my face and said that.

[A]

That's good. I just wonder these days with all the players, like, some of them definitely have to be feeling the heat.

[B]

Yeah. Yeah. I'm sure they look at it, you know, it's hard not to look at it when you're on social media with all that stuff going around. So I mean, it's everywhere. And then you hear like the whispers from friends or family in your circle, stuff like that. So, yeah, it's definitely, I'm sure a lot. You got to. You got to be just, you know, mindset focused.

[A]

I heard some of them at halftime.

[B]

Are on Twitter, just, I'm sure on bad teams. Yeah, it's like not on good teams.

[A]

You played on a lot of teams. Did you see any of the trades come in or were they all shocks?

[B]

So I never got traded.

[A]

Oh, you never got traded.

[B]

It was like a sign in trade. So I'm not really traded. I got to pick my destination, which is cool.

[A]

Wow.

[B]

So that was like the great thing about my career. Yeah, it was never like a traded, but I was always definitely like worried maybe in. During trade deadline in February if I was going to get traded or not. Because sometimes I was. I wasn't playing the best maybe, but I was still, you know, good, good fit for that team. But yeah, I never got traded.

[A]

Damn. I feel like that's rare for your 10 year career.

[B]

Yeah, yeah, for sure. Yeah. Rare. Yeah. But like I said, I'm definitely blessed to be able to pick my destinations and pick where I wanted to go.

[A]

These days it feels like there's a lot of musical chairs. People are saying there's no loyalty anymore. What do you think about that?

[B]

Yeah, there's definitely no loyalty. I think the teams are doing, you know, it's a business. You gotta. You gotta understand that coming into it. So, you know, business wise, you gotta do what's best for you. I think the players have a lot of say so now more than they ever did. So I think that's a good thing too.

[A]

Favorite team to play on for you?

[B]

The Bulls. Because we went to the best record two years in a row and wins the Eastern Conference finals.

[A]

Damn, that's nice. Do you ever regret not winning a chip?

[B]

I mean, I mean, I feel like what's meant to be was meant to be. I guess it wasn't meant to be. So.

[A]

I know some people hold that over people's heads.

[B]

Yeah, I'm not gonna lose sleep over it.

[A]

Yeah, you only have. There's 32 teams. You only have so much control, right?

[B]

For sure. Yeah. It's only one winner at the end anyway. So everyone's a loser.

[A]

Yeah, I know Shaq always gives Chuck.

[B]

Some heat for that. Yeah. When you're in that kind of stage. Yeah. I mean, Kenny won two Shaq won four. So, yeah, Chuck's the odd man out.

[A]

Yeah. Let's talk about post MBA career. You're an active angel investor, Right. You're also an author. What have been some good investments for you?

[B]

Invested in Instacart, invested in a pickleball team. So it's kind of a little bit all over the place. Tech, health and wellness. So I love the angel investing, private equity, VC world. So it's always interesting to me. So always trying to learn more about it, go to conferences and seminars and stuff like that. So it's always cool to meet different founders and see what they're. What they're cooking up and, you know, all these cool ideas are coming up with.

[A]

That's cool, man. So you might make more of investing than your NBA career.

[B]

That's the plan. That's what I. When I started, that's my. That was my goal, to make more off my. Off this venture and then, you know, in my playing career. So I think if I can do that, that'd be kind of. That'd be success to me.

[A]

Nice. Were you investing as a player or you waited?

[B]

No, I waited. So I didn't even know anything about it until maybe 2020 with my first investment.

[A]

Who put you on?

[B]

The guy named Rashawn Williams. He's my mentor. He's on Shark Tank now. So always kind of bouncing ideas off of him, asking him for information, insight, getting books to read from him. So it's always cool to, you know, just to have someone to tap into.

[A]

Nice. What books have the biggest impact on you?

[B]

You'd say, my favorite book, the one that he recommended is why should all the White Guys have Fun? It's a really good book.

[A]

I haven't heard that one.

[B]

Yeah, it's really good. So, yeah, I love that book. I love a list. Angels is always a good one for me. Me just to see the different things that celebrities or athletes or entrepreneurs are getting into and like I said, just the different ideas they come up with.

[A]

Nice. I love books, man. So I'm gonna check those out.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Books changed my life.

[B]

Yeah. Yeah, for sure.

[A]

And pods.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Do you listen any pods?

[B]

I listen to.

[A]

What's the one all in.

[B]

I've never heard of that one.

[A]

Chamath. Oh, no, it's like.

[B]

Oh, I heard someone. Someone sent me that one.

[A]

Yeah, it's like an investing one kind.

[B]

Of one where you talk about you was doing coke or something.

[A]

Oh, was he? Oh, I didn't even know that. Okay.

[B]

It was. Someone just sent me the clip. It Was funny.

[A]

I wonder which one of the four was talking about.

[B]

That's interesting.

[A]

My first million is a good one.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

Yeah. Which one do you listen to, though?

[B]

I listen to this one when my oldest daughter plays volleyball. It's the one called Volleyball Dads. There's another one that's on talks about sports and tech. I forgot the guy's name.

[A]

Volleyball Dads. Wow. There's a podcast for everything, man.

[B]

Yeah, yeah. Seriously, Volleyball Dads. Yeah. But, yeah, I just. I listen to it kind of like on the airplanes or driving stuff sometimes.

[A]

Yeah. So is investing the main focus for you right now?

[B]

Investing. Trying to turn my books right now to a cartoon series.

[A]

Nice.

[B]

So working on that and then just the foundation we have here for kids. So that's about it.

[A]

Please do the cartoon because I feel like cartoons suck these days.

[B]

Yeah, for kids. Yeah. I think there's not a lot of African American cartoons out there either. And ones that teach and preach positivity. So that's where I'm trying to get into that lane.

[A]

I said be awesome. Is that what the foundation is about?

[B]

To know foundation is about we have a free basketball. We have a out of school health program, and also a black history essay contest.

[A]

So nice.

[B]

Just trying to empower kids, give them a different sense of humility, sense of being, and just a chance that knowing that they can go out there and make it.

[A]

That's important for you.

[B]

Yeah, yeah, for sure.

[A]

Yeah. Cause you mentioned growing up in a tough environment, right?

[B]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Here. Growing up here in the inner city, you know, I didn't have a lot of people to look up to, especially like, you know, sports athletes that came and gave back. So I just wanted to be that kind of, you know, that mentor for those kids and, you know, let them know that you can make it. You don't have to be a basketball player. You can do whatever you want to do. So, you know, entrepreneur, doctor, lawyer. So not have to go and be an athlete like most people think we are.

[A]

I love it. So you grew up in Vegas?

[B]

Yeah, born and raised.

[A]

A lot's changed since then.

[B]

Yeah, yeah, it's definitely changed. Yeah, a lot. A lot's changed. I feel like the sports scene has changed. I feel like when I was younger, they would say we never would get a team, professional team. And now we have, you know, three or four and more coming. So.

[A]

Whispers of an NBA team, right?

[B]

Sure. It's coming soon.

[A]

All the locals know, but we can't really talk about it, you know, but yeah, maybe baseball, too.

[B]

We'll see. Yeah, for sure.

[A]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Vegas, people are getting priced out. We're at the point now where it's, like, booming, right?

[B]

Yeah. Vegas is expensive now. I mean, I think I was looking at something the other day. It was like, you gotta make at least 100,000 to be comfortable. And that's, you know.

[A]

I saw that.

[B]

Yeah. Yeah.

[A]

That's a lot for most people.

[B]

Yeah, for sure.

[A]

Average income's 50k, so, yeah, it's tough. So I was reading this. There's this guy named Jacob's life in Vegas, and he was talking about, like, these resort fees. Now, basically, it's like a hundred bucks in fees.

[B]

Yeah. It's crazy.

[A]

Like that, just for one night.

[B]

Yeah, yeah. It's ridiculous.

[A]

People don't even want to come here anymore, right?

[B]

Yeah. The party scene has died.

[A]

I mean, back when you were growing up here, the mob was kind of running a little bit, right?

[B]

That's what I heard. I don't know.

[A]

Allegedly. Yeah, allegedly. And, yeah, people just can't afford meals now on the strip.

[B]

Yeah, yeah. It's crazy. Yeah. Everything's getting expensive, man. That's why you got to keep, you know, building, keep making money and keep, you know, creating things.

[A]

Yeah. You plan on staying here for a minute, though?

[B]

I think so. I think so. Yeah. My. Maybe till my youngest ones gets out of college or goes to college. So.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

But we thought about moving a couple times.

[A]

We just haven't now. We do get flack for the education system. So how did you go about that with your kids?

[B]

They're in private school, fortunately, so I think that's a good thing about that living in Vegas. But, yeah, if I had to put them in a public school, I don't know where I would put them because it's terrible.

[A]

We're the second worst in the country.

[B]

Yeah, it's bad. It's been like that for a long time.

[A]

Is that where you went when you were here?

[B]

I went to the same school. My oldest daughter goes to, Gorman.

[A]

Oh, so you went private? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Gorman's known for. For athletics, right?

[B]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Football. My parents were. Got a scholarship, so I couldn't afford it, so.

[A]

Damn well done. You want your kids to be athletes or do you?

[B]

No, I didn't want them to be playing sports at all, really. It's kind of surprising. My daughter, you know, took up sports and is playing volleyball and stuff like that.

[A]

So why didn't you want them to play sports?

[B]

Because I just know the ups and downs you can go through, you know, I didn't know. I had a lot of friends with mental issues and depression and all that kind of stuff, so I didn't really want them to, you know, go through that. But, you know, sports teaches us a lot of lessons, you know, being resilient, teamwork, you know, all these things. So it's good for them to learn those life lessons.

[A]

Respect. Because that's a hot topic right now. Parents vicariously living through their kids when it comes to sports.

[B]

For sure. Yeah. Yeah. I said I would never be that parent because I've seen a lot of kids, you know, and their parents do that to their kids, and I didn't want that for my kid.

[A]

Yeah. And then the kid grows to hate the sport.

[B]

Yeah. Hate the parent.

[A]

Right. Hate the parent. Hate the sport that they once loved.

[B]

Not a good thing.

[A]

So they turn a fun sport into a job.

[B]

Yeah, yeah.

[A]

At a young age.

[B]

Yeah. So.

[A]

And the AAU circuit's under a lot of attack right now.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Because you see a lot of that, right?

[B]

Yeah. And it's not about development for the AAU system. It's just about, you know, who can make the most money off a kid and a team and stuff like that. So, yeah, I think it needs to be moved back to development and just growing the kids and having fun and, you know, then if they go to be a pro, then they'll be a pro, but absolutely don't force it on them.

[A]

Yeah. You said you invest in a pickleball team.

[B]

Yeah, yeah.

[A]

That's hot right now.

[B]

Yeah, it's hot. Hopefully, you know, it comes, you know, and does. Does big things, you know, gives me roi, so. But I think it's a fun game. It's fun for me because I played it and I got the email a couple days later, so I was like, yeah, let's try it.

[A]

Paddle's hot right now, too. Have you seen. Yeah, yeah.

[B]

I have a place right next door for my house is a plow place.

[A]

Same with me.

[B]

They're all there all the time. Yeah. Yeah.

[A]

We're neighbors. There's only one place in Vegas. Yeah.

[B]

Yeah. Oh, is it on section 10?

[A]

Yeah. Yeah.

[B]

That's where I live.

[A]

Yeah. Yeah. Small world. Yeah, I played there. It was super hot outside, but it was fun.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

You could just slam it.

[B]

Yeah. I never played it, but I always see them outside playing, so.

[A]

Yeah, that's hot, man. But pickleball, man, Lifetime replaced their basketball courts with it.

[B]

Yeah. That's crazy.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Because there's too many fights on the court.

[B]

Right. For basketball.

[A]

Yeah. Plus, Pickleball probably makes them more money because all ages can play.

[B]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. So more. More year round too.

[A]

Yeah, yeah. Well, dude, this has been cool. You play a lot of poker too, now?

[B]

I have no clue how to play poker.

[A]

Oh, so you're just playing tonight for fun?

[B]

Last time I played in Blake's tournament, I think I was maybe the first or second person. I don't know how to play at all.

[A]

So you don't know the best hands.

[B]

I mean, I looked up the rules, but I don't know if that's going to help me at all. I need more practice.

[A]

Well, good luck, man. Maybe you'll make a deep run tonight.

[B]

No. Appreciate it. I try.

[A]

Yeah. And where can people find you and find the books and find the charity and everything?

[B]

You can find the [e-mail] I'm on Instagram, Twitter, X Twitter, whatever. Facebook, quietstorm32. And the foundation's website is quietstormfoundation.org awesome.

[A]

We'll link below. Thanks for coming on, man.

[B]

Appreciate it, man. Thanks.

[A]

Check them out, guys. Peace. Wherever you guys are watching this show, I would truly appreciate it if you follow or subscribe. It helps a lot with the algorithm. It helps us get bigger and better guests, and it helps us grow the team. Truly means a lot. Thank you guys for supporting. And here's the episode.