Competing with Ralph Lauren: A Streetwear Pioneer's Strategy | Karl Kani DSH #978

Summary

Digital Social Hour Podcast Episode: Competing with Ralph Lauren: A Streetwear Pioneer's Strategy | Karl Kani DSH #978
Release Date: December 14, 2024
Host: Sean Kelly
Guest: Carl Kanai, Founder of Carl Kanai

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Introduction

In episode #978 of the Digital Social Hour podcast, host Sean Kelly sits down with Carl Kanai, the legendary founder of the Carl Kanai brand, often hailed as the "Godfather of Streetwear." Carl shares his remarkable journey from pioneering streetwear in 1989 to building an international fashion empire. This in-depth conversation delves into his strategies for competing with industry giants like Ralph Lauren and Tommy Hilfiger, the profound influence of hip-hop culture on his brand, and his insights into navigating the ever-evolving fashion landscape.

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Early Beginnings and Brand Genesis

Carl Kanai recounts his inception into the fashion industry, emphasizing his role as a trailblazer in streetwear. Growing up in Brooklyn, New York, Carl noticed a gap in the market for hip-hop-inspired clothing that truly represented the culture.

Carl Kanai [01:01]: "When I started, my competitors were Tommy Hilfiger, Ralph Lauren. Those are the brands we had to convince that, hey, here's an alternative to that brand to wear."

He began by designing baggy jeans—a radical departure from the skinny styles prevalent at the time. Collaborating with his father’s tailor, Carl crafted jeans that offered a baggier fit without sacrificing comfort, effectively setting a new trend in the late '80s.

Carl Kanai [02:18]: "That's how the baggy jean craze started. We finally found a way to make baggy jeans that fit someone and that's how it kind of took off from there."

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Breaking into the Market and Building Momentum

Carl details the challenges and triumphs of launching his brand. With limited inspiration from existing brands, Carl and his team hustled to distribute their unique styles across various stores, gradually gaining traction.

Carl Kanai [02:48]: "Started that back in '89. We got my own patterns, came to LA, hooked up with different factories and started manufacturing our own clothing and just took off from there."

A pivotal moment came in 1993 when Carl partnered with Skechers, expanding his brand into footwear. This collaboration saw NBA stars like Derek Fisher and Carl Malone sporting Carl Kanai sneakers, further cementing the brand's reputation.

Carl Kanai [03:30]: "We came out with Carl Kanai sneakers on the basketball court. We had Derek Fisher from the Lakers, Carl Malone, John Wallace, the number one pick from the New York Knicks wearing our sneakers."

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The Power of Hip-Hop Culture

Central to Carl's success was the unwavering support from hip-hop legends. Icons such as Tupac, Biggie, Nas, and Aaliyah donned Carl Kanai apparel, propelling the brand into the mainstream.

Carl Kanai [04:49]: "I have over 200 pictures of Tupac wearing my clothing organically with no paid advertisements or anything like that. He wore it because it was real and it was legit."

Carl emphasizes the authenticity of these endorsements, highlighting that artists chose his brand out of genuine respect rather than promotional obligations.

Carl Kanai [05:01]: "He wanted to represent this brand and make it big. That was his whole goal."

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Navigating East Coast vs. West Coast Rivalries

During the infamous East Coast-West Coast hip-hop feud, Carl maintained a neutral stance, focusing solely on his business objectives. This approach earned him respect across regional lines, with artists from both coasts embracing his brand.

Carl Kanai [07:54]: "We didn't come out here for that, right? We're business, man. We came out here to make clothing and to dress the nation."

He shares an anecdote about reconnecting with Eazy-E during a tense period, underscoring the personal relationships he built within the hip-hop community.

Carl Kanai [08:35]: "I just felt like the respect level they had for me was kind of different because I was just a young kid, just like them."

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International Expansion and Market Adaptation

Recognizing the global potential of hip-hop, Carl strategically expanded his brand beyond the United States. Europe and Japan became key markets, each requiring tailored strategies to resonate with local tastes.

Carl Kanai [10:57]: "Our brand is the number one streetwear brand in Europe. Germany, Switzerland, Amsterdam, Spain are some of our biggest markets."

In Japan, Carl adapted to the local fashion sensibilities, embracing the "king of black" aesthetic and the country's penchant for bold, confident styles.

Carl Kanai [15:37]: "Japan's always been ahead of the game. They put the whole swag together, the cornrows, the hair, the whole look. They're able to put it together in a very unique way."

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Adapting to Changing Fashion Trends

Carl discusses the inevitable shifts in fashion, such as the transition from baggy to skinny jeans in the early 2010s. He credits artists like Lil Wayne for popularizing new styles, forcing brands to innovate or risk obsolescence.

Carl Kanai [19:27]: "Lil Wayne made it cool. So when that fashion train came in, everyone started shifting to newer brands who came out with that look."

Despite these changes, Carl underscores the importance of maintaining staple products that offer continuity and brand identity.

Carl Kanai [23:03]: "Certain things need to be a staple in your brand to transcend moments, transcend time."

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Modern Strategies and Collaborations

Embracing modern marketing avenues, Carl highlights the significance of e-commerce, pop-up shops, and impactful collaborations. A notable partnership with Stranger Things showcased his brand's versatility and ability to engage with diverse audiences.

Carl Kanai [27:37]: "We did a whole video. We did, like, a haunted house thing with a fashion show in there with them. It was the number one show on Netflix, so the timing was great."

He emphasizes that such collaborations should feel authentic and align with the brand’s core values to resonate with consumers.

Carl Kanai [28:23]: "We're gonna always do things, gonna push the brand forward and push the culture forward and open up new doors and new ideas on how to expand your brand."

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Staying Focused Amid Competition

Carl advises entrepreneurs to stay focused on larger industry players rather than getting bogged down by direct competitors. By keeping an eye on major brands controlling market share, Carl believes businesses can better strategize for sustained success.

Carl Kanai [17:55]: "You keep your eye on who's really the competition, who's really making all the money, who's really doing the sales, who's really controlling all the floor space in the stores. Those are the brands."

He critiques the downfall of many urban brands from the '90s, attributing their decline to an inability to adapt and maintain relevance amidst evolving market dynamics.

Carl Kanai [18:07]: "All those brands... are all gone. What happened to all the urban brands that were around in the '90s? They're all gone."

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Future Vision and Legacy

Looking ahead, Carl expresses ambitious plans to continue expanding his brand's global footprint, even humorously mentioning aspirations of "opening up shopping Mars."

Carl Kanai [29:47]: "I tell people, like, if I find out there's life on Mars, I'm gonna open up shopping Mars."

He remains committed to building a lasting legacy, emphasizing resilience, adaptability, and authentic cultural representation as pillars of his enduring success.

Carl Kanai [29:53]: "It's like we just want to take over and continue to build a legacy for the brand and, like, never give up and just keep setting the tone for what it is."

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Conclusion

Carl Kanai's story is a testament to the power of authenticity, cultural alignment, and strategic adaptability in building a lasting fashion empire. From pioneering streetwear in the late '80s to navigating global markets and embracing modern marketing techniques, Carl's insights offer invaluable lessons for aspiring entrepreneurs and fashion enthusiasts alike. His unwavering focus on quality, cultural resonance, and innovation continues to set Carl Kanai apart as a true pioneer in the streetwear industry.

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Notable Quotes:

• Carl Kanai [01:01]: "When I started, my competitors were Tommy Hilfiger, Ralph Lauren. Those are the brands we had to convince that, hey, here's an alternative to that brand to wear."

• Carl Kanai [02:18]: "That's how the baggy jean craze started. We finally found a way to make baggy jeans that fit someone and that's how it kind of took off from there."

• Carl Kanai [04:49]: "I have over 200 pictures of Tupac wearing my clothing organically with no paid advertisements or anything like that. He wore it because it was real and it was legit."

• Carl Kanai [17:55]: "You keep your eye on who's really the competition, who's really making all the money, who's really doing the sales, who's really controlling all the floor space in the stores. Those are the brands."

• Carl Kanai [29:47]: "I tell people, like, if I find out there's life on Mars, I'm gonna open up shopping Mars."

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This episode offers a deep dive into Carl Kanai's strategic mindset, his dedication to authentic cultural representation, and his ability to adapt to changing market dynamics, making it a must-listen for anyone interested in the intersection of fashion, entrepreneurship, and cultural influence.

Transcript

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[Host]

Why'd you do that? Honestly, you know, because they're competitors.

[Carl Kanai]

I don't look at them as competitors. Because you know what? They weren't my competitors. When I started, my competitors was Tommy Hilfinger, Ralph Lauren. Those are the brands we had to convince that, hey, here's an alternative to that brand to wear. Yeah. After they came out, Lump sum us together and say we're competitors. But that's not keeping your eye on the prize. You keep your eye on. The prize is staying where the big money's at.

[Host]

All right, guys, Godfather of streetwear here today. We got Carl. Thanks for coming on, man.

[Carl Kanai]

Thank you. Glad to be here.

[Host]

What a journey you've been on since 1989 in this space.

[Carl Kanai]

That's right. Yeah.

[Host]

The last 30 years. That's impressive, man. Let's walk through it. Back in 89, you were kind of the one of the first people getting into this.

[Carl Kanai]

Yeah. With originated streetwear fashion, you know, grew up in Brooklyn, N.Y. started making clothes for myself and people liked it. We found a market. We saw that hip hop needed a clothing designer to represent the culture, and we were there for that. So we kind of made our stance right there.

[Host]

And who were your inspirations back then? Or were you kind of the first one doing this?

[Carl Kanai]

No, we're the first ones doing it. We didn't have any inspiration before to do this. You know what I'm saying? There's nobody came before us. There's no other brand that could say they started streetwear before called Kanai's. It's not factual, because we were trying to figure things out on our own and just hustling, taking our stuff to different stores, trying to just, you know, make it how we can and get the brand out there.

[Host]

That's pretty crazy. So you had the foresight to see this industry exploding then?

[Carl Kanai]

Yeah, well, it was more or less like growing up, we didn't really find the type of clothing that we wanted to wear. Me and my friends were buying Levi's, but we're buying it four or five sizes bigger because we wanted to have more of a baggier fit. Yeah, the waist was too big. So when I went to my father's tail, I asked him, could he make me some jeans that bigger legs make the waist fit. And when I wore that particular pair of pants, that's how the baggy jean for craze started. We finally found a way to make baggy jeans that fit someone and that's how it kind of took off from there. No other designer had this type of fit in the stores at the time until we created that.

[Host]

Wow. So you started that baggy Jean movement?

[Carl Kanai]

100%.

[Host]

Holy crap.

[Carl Kanai]

Started that back in 89. We got my own patterns, came to LA, hooked up with different factories and started manufacturing own clothing and just took off from there. Wow.

[Host]

Why do you think that movement took off?

[Carl Kanai]

Because it wasn't there before. And a lot of you guys think with hip hop, a lot of kids were break dancing, you know, I mean, move a lot of movement in the clothing. So the loose fit clothing kind of went along with that. And two, fashion has a way of changing because jeans were skinny tight back then. And. And as new generations come out, they want a different look. So we kind of appealed to that new younger generation. And hip hop was all about music and fashion and street, and it didn't really have that. So we came up with the colors, the look, the fashion kind of all tied in together.

[Host]

Wow.

[Carl Kanai]

Yeah.

[Host]

That's incredible, man. And what was the next big trend you caught after that baggy movement?

[Carl Kanai]

Well, back in 93, we connected with a company called Skechers and became partners with Skechers, which is a footwear company. We came out with online of shoes and foot footwear. We had 15 NBA players wearing Carl Can I sneakers on the basketball court. We had Derek Fisher from the Lakers, Carl Malone, John Wallace, the number one pick from the New York Knicks was wearing our sneakers. So we kind of came out with that type of look. And we also came out with a boot, which was straight up competing against Timbaland. But what we did was we put a metal plate on the side of our boot with a car can I logo on it, which kind of identified our boot to be different than Timblin's boot. That kind of took a life of its own. But a bigger part about it was the support we got from the hip hop community of all the artists wearing our clothing that really took us to mainstream. Biggie, Tupac, Nas, Aaliyah. You know, the list goes on and on of the support that we've gotten through the hip hop culture, which really just propelled our brand to the next level.

[Host]

Right. That hip hop culture has so much influence on everybody, it's insane. I haven't seen a movement that powerful.

[Carl Kanai]

No. You know, to me, it's like, you know, you take a kid from streets of Brooklyn, New York, who had a dream, and, you know, the name Kanai was a question I used to ask myself all the time. Can I be successful? Can I come from the industry to build a brand? It's gonna be global. And I didn't know the answer to that, but I know about call myself. Can I every day have to answer that question? Yes, I can. And so today, the brand is international brand distributed in 25 foreign countries. And Tupac's one of the main reasons why our brand is so big internationally, because they worship him like a God over there.

[Host]

Wow.

[Carl Kanai]

And I have over 200 pictures of Tupac wearing my clothing organically with no paid advertisements or anything like that. He wore it because it was real and it was legit, kind of identified to each other at the same time.

[Host]

That's crazy. So he was buying it himself?

[Carl Kanai]

Yeah, he didn't want free clothing. I said. He said, no, I want to. I want to buy your shit. Wow. He was actually purchasing the clothing and the. So what you do? Anytime he bought clothing, we just sent him some extra clothing because he didn't want the free clothing. He's like, I want to represent this brand and make it big. That was his whole goal.

[Host]

That's amazing. I wonder how he found out about it.

[Carl Kanai]

Well, just through the culture and him wearing the clothing and stuff like that. I tell you one funny story about Tupac, and I don't know intentionally, you know, when Tupac got shot in New York at the Quad Studio, his first article he did was in Vibe magazine. And one of the questions they asked him say, puck, you know, how'd you feel when you got shot? He's like, man, I didn't even know I was shot. He says, well, I know I could feel the Pierce. I could feel the heat of the bullet piercing my car. Can I draw us?

[Host]

Wow, that's nuts.

[Carl Kanai]

He talk about Brandon 101.

[Host]

Holy crap. So you got a little PR out of it.

[Carl Kanai]

I was looking for that, but you know, I was like, this guy is legit. Like, you know, he's like. But I think he was just saying what it is reality of what happened. That's probably what he really thought. Like a bullet came to my clock.

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[Carl Kanai]

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[Host]

Were you staying neutral during that west coast versus east code feud?

[Carl Kanai]

Yo. Yeah, we didn't come out here for that, right? We're business, man. We came out here to make clothing and to dress the nation, man. So, like, we definitely stay neutral. And we had so much support from all of the west coast artists too. And east coast like Snoop wore my car. Can I sweat his first video he's ever done. What's the name is the video when he turns into a. He's a Doberman pitcher. He turns into a dormant pincher. At the beginning of the video, he had on a Carl Kanai hoodie on that. And that kind of set us off and got us all the love and support from the west coast artists. Wanting to wear Carl, Kanye, cousin Snoop.

[Host]

That's incredible. Yeah, that's smart, because, yeah, you're outfitting both of them. There's no need to get involved. It's like politics, right?

[Carl Kanai]

Oh, yeah. I ain't into that rap. None of that. You know what I'm saying? Stay in my lane.

[Host]

But you formed a friendship with these guys, too, down the road.

[Carl Kanai]

Yeah. You know, me and Tupac became really cool. Me and Dr. Dre and Snoop became really awesome. Ice T was the first rapper that we met in la. The second day we came out here, met Ice T. Wow. It kind of went from Ice T to Eazy. And the only funny thing, one time was, like, when Eazy and Dr. Jerry was beefing. There's one time I bumped to Eazy at South Coast Plaza Mall. It was right before Christmas, and we must have spent two hours talking. All he was doing was complaining about Dre. He, like, he wanted somebody to talk to. Like, I guess I was a guy. He was, like, complaining about Dre, and I was sitting there talking to him the whole time was really kind of cool. I just, like, kind of felt like the respect level they had for me was kind of different because I was just a young kid, just like them. But they were into music and I was into fashion, so they kind of looked at me a little bit differently than what they were doing, like, in terms of a businessman. They all respected that. That we actually, actually competing with brands like Guess, Jabot, Calvin Klein, Tommy Hilfiger, giving them alternative brand to wear. But the key to make us successful, we had to make clothing that was that much better, that was out there.

[Host]

Right.

[Carl Kanai]

Not because you're young and you're cool, you think people can buy your stuff. It's just your product got to be legit. Right? So we have to make over, over succeed in the quality of our products.

[Host]

That makes sense. Yeah. Because you're up against giants that have unlimited budgets and probably hundreds of designers. Right. And you. You're the only designer at the time, so.

[Carl Kanai]

Yeah. But the key was the only thing that they didn't have is they didn't have the streets behind them, you know, and only that, too. A lot of those clothing brands back then didn't think the hip hop was going to last. So they didn't really cater to the hip hop artists.

[Host]

Wow.

[Carl Kanai]

They weren't given hip hop artists clothing to where they weren't featuring them in any clothing ads back. I'm talking about like 89, 90, 91, 92. It's not until later on when they saw, man, this hip hop thing is a force. Then everybody, now everybody wants to be affiliated with hip hop. Prior to this, no clothing brand really wanted to, because they did. First of all, they didn't know if affiliated themselves with hip hop was going to deter the original customer they had for their brand. And number two, no one thought it'd be this dominant force of what it is today.

[Host]

That's so interesting. I didn't know people thought that hip hop was a fad back then.

[Carl Kanai]

Oh, absolutely. I'm talking about like 89, 90. When it first started. It started some ghetto stuff. People just rapping over, you know, no one paid attention to. But it's not in start. They started getting on top Billboard charts and, you know, cross over the mainstream. And then for my brand, what helped us was that hip hop started penetrating internationally now. So right now our brand is the number one streetwear brand in Europe. Germany, Switzerland, Amsterdam, Spain are some of our biggest markets for our brand.

[Host]

Wow.

[Carl Kanai]

Because as there's hip hop, the fashion goes where hip hop is, I'm trying to say. And that's kind of where the trend goes. If there's music, fashion goes along with it.

[Host]

There's so much overlap there, right?

[Carl Kanai]

Yeah.

[Host]

Why do you think that is?

[Carl Kanai]

Because just a culture is a vibe. You know, the kids see them wearing on tv. They want to mimic what they're doing. The whole swag, different things like that. One of the toughest markets for us to break in was actually was Italy. I was just. I was just in Milan last week and I was speaking to an artist there. He told me, man, I used to get beat up back in the days wearing your clothing.

[Host]

What?

[Carl Kanai]

I was like, what are you talking about? I was like, this is news to me too. I was like, what are you telling me? He says, man, because we started. These are, you know, white kids in Italy. He's like, yeah, we started wearing baggy jeans. It wasn't acceptable for us to wear this type of clothing here. They was like, why are you guys wearing this rap clothing out here? And stuff like that. So kids fought him over that. But it was all. It was the rebel kids who changed the fashion game out then. As they changed the fashion game, they became the street guys. Kids started respecting them. Now they became the more influential guys in the market. And the thing too is like hip hop artists, street hustlers was the number one influences back in the days before hip hop artists. They want to mimic those guys. Then when hip hop artists started making a lot of money, they became the major influence on kids on the streets. Kids wanted to be like them, rap like them, the music, the vibes. So everything just kind of came full circle.

[Host]

Interesting. So each country has its own strategy and you know, you can't just hit them all at the same time. Right. You got to grow by country, by country.

[Carl Kanai]

Yeah, for the most part, you know, because you understand it's different currencies, different languages. But the one common, one common goal with the oldest thing is hip hop music. That's the one thing that they all could sing along to and all be part of. Doesn't matter which country you're from, you can't even speak English, but you can rap along belong to these music is so influential to these kids. And back then they didn't really have a lot of Italian hip hop artists or German hip hop artists. Now you go, there's so many different hip hop artists rapping in German, rapping in Italian language, stuff like that. So the culture and the business just, just blowing up mainstream all over.

[Host]

How did the U.S.

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[Host]

Hip hop artists do in other countries. Do they still sell out?

[Carl Kanai]

Yeah, they do like, especially like a lot of the old school artists. They still do a lot of shows in Europe like the Big Daddy Kanes, the KS ones in the Public Enemy. Kids still want to hear those old school rap groups. You know, one thing about Europe, that's what I love about it, is that they do their research in college. They have courses in college about hip hop culture.

[Host]

Wow.

[Carl Kanai]

Yeah. In college out there. That's how mainstreaming out. And the one thing about our brand, while we surpass every other brand who comes to Europe and try to be successful, they want to know who started this game, what's the history behind the brand they want to read about it, get the history, get the culture about it. They want to know, what did Aaliyah wear? Oh, Aaliyah wore Carl Kanai on her first album cover. Wow. I love Aaliyah. This brand must be really cool. Oh, Dr. Dre and Snoop mentions Carl, can I name in his songs? Oh, this is cool. So there's different things like that that you can't really talk about. Just got to be b about it and without. You can't really shove it in their face. They got to discover it themselves for it to be really legit interesting.

[Host]

That's cool. So history is big out there. Absolutely.

[Carl Kanai]

Yeah. For sure.

[Host]

So how long did competitors start coming once you started in? 89. How many years did that take?

[Carl Kanai]

Yeah, I would say probably like it took them about. I say 94.

[Host]

Okay, so you had five years of.

[Carl Kanai]

Just five years. Yeah, it was me and a company called Cross Colors, which is actually around the same time Cross Cults are doing streetwear also. They had a lot of financing behind them, so they would put the financing behind my brand and we became partners together. Stayed together for about three years. Then me and Skechers, we had a great business together for a few years together. And that helped us propel us to international market as well. So today we currently have 10 flagship stores in Japan.

[Host]

Wow.

[Carl Kanai]

Which is a whole nother section of the market because Japan, their clothing is totally different than what we do in Europe. Japan is very old school. They. They have the slogan called the king of black. They love a lot of logos and, you know, more closer fit in clothing. So Japanese market has been very well to us as well, because Japanese always been fashion trend setters in. In the culture as well. And they always knee deep into hip hop culture as well.

[Host]

Yeah, Japan's big on fashion. Right. That's kind of where it starts and then it trickles down.

[Carl Kanai]

Yeah. Japan's always been ahead of the game. You know, he's got to catch up with them too. You know what I'm saying? They always like, they're like, very bold and very confident in the styles they do. Right. And they put the whole swag together, the cornrows, the hair, the whole look. They're able to put it together in a very unique way.

[Host]

Absolutely. So when did Fubu come into play?

[Carl Kanai]

I think it came like 94, 95, something like that.

[Host]

And that was a big brand, right?

[Carl Kanai]

Yeah, they came out big, they came out strong. They're good thing they got L Cool J. They said some Fat Albert collaborations and stuff like that. So they Made their mark for what they were trying to do.

[Host]

Yeah, Damon's been on the show, actually. So what was your relationship with him? Was it. Was it, like, animosity or was it friendly?

[Carl Kanai]

Not at all. I mean, I actually helped him out.

[Host]

Oh, you helped him?

[Carl Kanai]

Yeah. So Damon did a post on his Instagram a couple years ago. He talked about what we did for them. So basically, they were sitting in the lobby. I think he said he had 30 in his pocket. These are words in his mouth. 30 in his pocket. And he says, the legendary Carl Kanai comes by and says, hey, I know who you guys are. You the fugu guys. I says, yeah. So I gave them tickets to the show. They came to the show. They're able to introduce. I introduced them some buyers. They was able to write $300,000 in order. So he kind of gave them the blueprint to kind of get them set up into the business, and they did what they had to do to become successful. But I guess the idea of bringing them to the show opened up their eyes to see how big this thing could get. So, you know, good for them that is able to take that. Take it to the next level.

[Host]

Wow.

[Carl Kanai]

Yeah.

[Host]

So you help them. Like, why'd you do that? Honestly, you know, because they're competitors.

[Carl Kanai]

I don't look at them as competitors because you know what? They weren't my competitors. When I started, my competitors was Tommy Hilfinger, Ralph Lauren, Guess, Jabot, Calvin Klein. Those are the brands kids are wearing. Those are the brands we had to convince that, hey, here's an alternative to that brand to wear. You don't have to wear those brands and give an alternative. So I. We were very laser focused on who our competition was. Now, yeah, after they came out, they could all lump sum up, lump sum us together and say, we're competitors. But that's not keeping your eye on the prize. You keep your eye on. The prize is staying where the big money is at. Tommy Hilfinger, Ralph Lauren, Donna Karen. They control all the floor space in department stores. And those. Those are the big accounts that you had. So if they control the floor space, those. That's who you really competing against.

[Host]

Right.

[Carl Kanai]

What. What they did was they put all the urban brands kind of together in one little market in one room and say, okay, you guys, there's $100,000. You got to split the open to buy here. But meanwhile, Tommy and Ralph and them get all the big money open to buy dollars. So when we start looking at ourselves with competition, we're not doing the right Thing, keep your eye on who's really the competition, who's really making all the money, who's really doing the sales, who's really controlling all the floor space in the stores. Those are the brands.

[Host]

Wow, I love that mindset, man. Because too many people get wrapped up with their competitors.

[Carl Kanai]

Yes. Nonsense. You know, that's silly, you know, because you can't win that way. You know, I mean, look at, look at those brands I mentioned to you. They're still here today. They're still around today, still doing big numbers. What happened to all the urban brands were around in the 90s? They're all gone.

[Host]

They're gone, right? Yeah. Mitchell and Ness is gone.

[Carl Kanai]

They're all gone. All those, you know, Fat Farm, fubu, Sean John and Nietzsche, Mecca. All those brands are not here anymore. Right. Why is that? Why is Tommy, Ralph and Calvin still here? You know, we got to stay focused on what the goals really are here.

[Host]

So as you started seeing those brands drop, what was the reason they were.

[Carl Kanai]

Falling off, you think the market started changing? You know, I'm saying the market was shifting. You know, skinny jeans started to come out, and I think buyers wanted to change. And the other thing I realized too, is that in this business, you know, we had a great run in the United States from, you know, 89 to like 2003. You kind of go through a couple generations. When I say that is you kind of get a kid going to junior high school through high school. A kid would probably wear the same brand from junior high school through high school. After high school, kids like, they don't be like high school. They change their brand clothing anymore. So new generation comes in. You always got to capture a new young generation coming through. But your clothing style has to be on point to what they want at the time. If you don't. If you don't change quick enough, they're going to move on to something else, Right. So when the skinny jeans phrase came out, no one shifted quick enough, you know, skinny jeans. And what happened was when Lil Wayne started wearing skinny jeans, he was at top of his career. He made every kid who wanted to wear skinny finally say, yes, I could wear skin. I could be cool wearing skinny jeans. Before you were skinny, people look at you. Oh, you just escape water.

[Host]

You're cool.

[Carl Kanai]

So Lil Wayne made it cool. So when that fashion train came in, everyone started shifting to newer brands who came out with that look. But the key to us, why we didn't really get hurt so much then is because we already established ourselves internationally as the OG So we kind of could set the tone how we wanted to do things. It's an international market smart.

[Host]

Because everyone had their eggs in the US and then when the market changed, they couldn't adapt quick enough, right?

[Carl Kanai]

Yeah, pretty much.

[Host]

Wow. So when did it go to skinny jeans? What year was that? Around?

[Carl Kanai]

I think I was like 2010. 2010, okay, 10, something like that.

[Host]

Wow.

[Carl Kanai]

This one Luda Wayne is the top of his height of his career and he came out with a different vibe and the market started shifting and when department store says get out, they mean get out. They kick everybody out. Damn. Everybody. Just every. All the brands they stopped giving open to buy dollars and you have to move on to something else. And back then, because there was no online shopping, you needed those stores to run you, to control your business. Right. You couldn't. You didn't have direct to consumer.

[Host]

Yeah. No E commerce.

[Carl Kanai]

No E commerce back then. So that kind of changed the game as well. So you had to find other means of really getting your brand out there. And this is a very expensive business to be successful. And so you're not generating business and you have all these expensive marketing, advertising and magic shows. You're not going to be able to win this business and be profitable.

[Host]

Right. Because you got money tied in inventory, right?

[Carl Kanai]

Absolutely.

[Host]

Tons of it.

[Carl Kanai]

Yeah, for sure.

[Host]

Damn. Do you see the market shifting from retail space towards something else in the future?

[Carl Kanai]

I definitely see online shopping is going to still be huge right now. I think pop ups is going to be really good. Like you do go to certain cities, you do a pop up over a weekend and then you move out and make kids. People always want what they can get. I've noticed people with successful E commerce sites, they do websites where it's not available every day. They may say, look, sites only be open Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday or Thursday, Friday, Saturday. So people kind of lined up waiting to get these products. Somebody to when your product is too accessible, becomes not as important and not as exclusive. May want it to be.

[Host]

Right?

[Carl Kanai]

Yeah.

[Host]

How do you feel about modern hip hop now?

[Carl Kanai]

I think it's cool. I think it's a shift, you know, I think, you know, everything is about change. And I feel like once you get to the point where you complain about where music is, you may be a little too old because it's going to go where it's going no matter whether you like it or not. You know, saying, I remember like when our parents always growing up is like, don't wear your clothes so baggy, Pull up your pants. What is this Hip hop music you listen to, we didn't care what they said. We did it even more. Right. So to me, it's like it's gonna change no matter what. So you better accept it and feel it, because hip hop still be the number one influential music category, I think, for youth forever. I don't. Can't see that changing.

[Host]

Yeah, it's big now. They're collabing with country, too. So it's a new, new era. I never saw that collab before.

[Carl Kanai]

Yeah, I think it's just like when Run DMC did their thing with Walk this Way. You know, they did that mix with rock and roll. That was a cool collab right there. No one saw that coming.

[Host]

Right.

[Carl Kanai]

It's always open to new interpretation because the new young generation, they don't see any color. So I feel like music is kind of the same way right now.

[Host]

Yeah. How quickly are the trends changing these days with social media? I'm sure it's every three months now, right?

[Carl Kanai]

Oh, it's like daily. I mean, daily. And kids are so unique nowadays. And it's so open to fashion right now. And we're in different types of looks and merchandise and things together. And today there's so different options in terms of branding and clothing. I mean, everyone has a clothing line, and some people are doing really good jobs at it. You know what I'm saying? So to me, to be successful in this business, what you have to do is establish your basics. You know, I mean, you gotta establish basic. With the basic, you could transcend time. Like Calvin Klein Levi's has a basic Levi. They've been doing the same gene since 1919.

[Host]

Right, right.

[Carl Kanai]

And it's still working. Now, Calvin Klein's been doing the same boxer. So forever and still working. It's easier said than done, establishing a basic. But for us, our base has always been the car can I. Baggy jeans been our basics and stuff like that. And a car, can I. Oversized T shirts been our basics. Certain things need to be a staple in your brand to transcend moments, transcend time.

[Host]

So you need that staple product to back you, right?

[Carl Kanai]

Yeah, because, you know, you have to have a product where you could actually stock and be replenished in stores to be profitable. If you're just in a business selling fashion, you're not going to hit every time on fashion. Something could sell, something cannot. You have a couple of bad seasons, you'll be out of business.

[Host]

Yeah. What are you. You think of Kanye, what he pulled off with easy, that was incredible.

[Carl Kanai]

No, Kanye's A man, I mean, you know, he's crazy, but, you know, he knows how to market clothing. He's a great designer. Stuff is great muted colors. He had a synergy for what he wanted to do. The same thing with skims with Kim Kardashian. She kind of had a similar vibe. Kept it clean, kept it basic, and that's why that brand is successful today. Great, great influencer marketing on both their parts that do stuff. So, you know, they get the advantage because they. They could say something today and the whole press is talking about it tomorrow.

[Host]

Right.

[Carl Kanai]

Everyone has that power to do that.

[Host]

Yeah, but with that power, that's how they built $1 billion brand in two years, three years.

[Carl Kanai]

Exactly.

[Host]

Crazy.

[Carl Kanai]

Yeah.

[Host]

Yeah. But you were old school. You didn't have that option back in the day.

[Carl Kanai]

No, we had the old Detroit hardcore go out there and work and go hustle hard, you know, there's no other choice. We didn't have the flexibility to have in the social medias and stuff like that. So what we had was a car. You put your stuff in the backseat of the car. We used to go to the nightclubs, go to the barbershops, go to where you need to go and hustle your brand.

[Host]

Wow.

[Carl Kanai]

That's what we did. I remember we used to go to the magic show in Vegas, which is the big clothing convention, and it was just my company and cross colors there to being in terms of the only streetwear companies there. And I remember Calvin and them didn't even want us next to their booth. So because of that magic built a whole urban section for the magic show. And that's what they put all the urban brands together in one section in the magic show because they didn't want to not take the dollars we were giving them, but they didn't want to piss off the original brands over there either. So they found a way to kind of try to keep everybody happy.

[Host]

Wow. Calvin didn't want you. Did that piss you off?

[Carl Kanai]

No, we loved it.

[Host]

Oh, you loved it.

[Carl Kanai]

That means we were doing something right? Right. It means that we were creating an energy they didn't like. You got to disrupt the system to be successful.

[Host]

Right.

[Carl Kanai]

Talking about you, you're doing something. Once we had the accounts lined up for our clothing, we know we're doing something. Once we saw on mtv, they started blurring out our logos. You know, we're the ones. The reason. We're the reason why MTV started blurring out logos, really, because we were so big. MTV wanted us to run commercials on mtv. Right. We were like why do we need to run commercials? They're wearing our stuff through the whole video for free, right?

[Host]

Yeah.

[Carl Kanai]

Guys are wearing our stuff on our logos. We had red, man. We had, you know, Jay Z. We had puff, you know, wearing our stuff. So, like, when they were in the videos, we didn't have to advertise. MTV is all right, cool. They started blurring anyone wearing big logos, and so people don't want to blur for them on the. On the screen. So they would say, okay, either wear a swole logo or start running some commercials.

[Host]

Damn.

[Carl Kanai]

Yeah.

[Host]

Well, you're here now, and I don't know if MTV is. So things worked out, man.

[Carl Kanai]

Exactly.

[Host]

No, for real, though. People don't know how hard it is to make it as long as you have.

[Carl Kanai]

Yeah.

[Host]

Like, I think 95% of businesses fail within five years.

[Carl Kanai]

Yeah. I think our hustle is a little bit different everybody else, man. Because, you know, to me, it's like, if you can't see it, you can't be it. We wake up every day with a goal and a focus of where we want to be in life and where we want to be as a company in a business. A lot of people like transcendence. Other businesses, we stuck strictly with clothing and fashion. And, like, we didn't want to make the mistakes we did here in the United States on the international market. So we made sure we went out there. Any mistake we made here. We covered the grounds there. We have different partners in each country. We have different partners in Spain and Germany. When we have international meetings, we have a booth there with headphones. So when they're talking, we have live time translators telling people what we're saying to them. Because we have people in different foreign countries. They don't. They all don't speak English.

[Host]

Wow.

[Carl Kanai]

They understand their market. There's really an amazing thing. Our partners in Europe is a company called Snipes. They're the number one streetwear retailer in Europe. 1600 stores. They just. 400 stores here in the United States.

[Host]

Holy crap.

[Carl Kanai]

They bought out Jimmy Jazz for 900 million. They bought out downtown locker room. They're there in Baltimore, Philly, New York, D.C. and those are the partners that we have for our brand because they understand streetwear market. They understand our brand. And the owner, his love for Tupac was really what brought us together.

[Host]

So love him.

[Carl Kanai]

Cool.

[Host]

It's crazy how he lives on to this day.

[Carl Kanai]

Absolutely.

[Host]

Like, it's unreal.

[Carl Kanai]

He's legendary, for sure.

[Host]

Yeah, He's a legend. You. I went through your deck. You've Done some awesome collabs. So you did one with Stranger Things?

[Carl Kanai]

Yeah, so that one was really cool. I kind of came out of nowhere, so they contacted us in Europe, and they said, hey, you know, we see the car. Can I. Brand is big in the streets here. We think it'd be cool to kind of get the youth into Stranger Things. So we did a whole video. We did, like, a. We did, like, a haunted house thing with a fashion show in there with them. It was the number one show on Netflix, so the timing was great. And the collection did really well together. So looking forward to possibly doing something with them for next season.

[Host]

Nice. Because that's a whole different market than what you're used to. Stranger Things, right?

[Carl Kanai]

Yeah. Because to me, you have to diversify who your market is in this business. You can't stay to one market. You got to grow. Because people love to see different things and get excited when they see a brand coming outside of their comfort zone and doing extraordinary things, like doing collabs with Stranger Things. Unexpected for Carl. Can I. So that's why I think it translated very well for us.

[Host]

Right. Did you get any hate from your audience for doing that?

[Carl Kanai]

Not really, no. I think people thought it was cool if they thought it was different. You know, everyone loves the show, so I thought it was kind of different. And, you know, I don't look at things like that. I think, like, if anybody hates, you know, that's the problem that they have. We're gonna always do things. Gonna push the brand forward and push the culture forward and open up new doors and new ideas on how to expand your brand.

[Host]

Right?

[Carl Kanai]

Yeah.

[Host]

Certain companies start losing touch with their customers, I think.

[Carl Kanai]

Absolutely. When you're not real, you do you like? I think to be real, you got to be real to the culture, be real to the music, and understand who you are as a brand. And on your styling, too, also represents who you are. Like, there's certain trends we just can't jump on. It's not. That's not who we are. But, you know, we got to try to set the trends. Opposed to trying to follow what trends are.

[Host]

Right. Damn. That's. That's tough to do, though, right? To set them.

[Carl Kanai]

Yeah. But, you know, after you've been doing this a while, you kind of find that certain things have a way of coming back around again. Because we've been doing it for so long. We see. Okay, this is in. This is trending now. We see that baggies in now, but we know this time baggy is not going to dominate the way it was before. Because there's some skinny's been in so long. Some people don't want to give up their skinnies.

[Host]

Right.

[Carl Kanai]

You got to find a good balance between that and making sure that you don't go too, too baggy. People don't want to mess with you anymore. So it's like a fine line of how you do this.

[Host]

Yeah, yeah. So baggies are back right now.

[Carl Kanai]

Baggies are backing. Baggies are back and looking at hip hop. Everyone's like, they're not. They're not so skinny as they were before.

[Host]

Yeah, good point. Yeah. There is a trend that way. Just everyone's getting bigger, I think. Not just people in hip hop. That's right, dude. What's next for you?

[Carl Kanai]

Want to take over the world, man? Like, you know, I tell people, like, if I find out there's life on Mars, I'm gonna open up shopping Mars.

[Host]

I love that.

[Carl Kanai]

You know what I'm saying? It's like we just want to take over and continue to build a legacy for the brand and, like, never give up and just keep setting the tone for what it is. Like, to me, it's like with a title like the godfather of urban fashion, the original streetwear. You better act like it. You better act like it, because you can't have a title like that and don't set the tone for things to go powerful.

[Host]

Can't wait to see where you take it, man. We'll link the site below. Thanks so much for coming on. It was an honor.

[Carl Kanai]

Absolutely. Thank you.

[Host]

Yep. Thanks for watching, guys. Check them out below. See you next time.