Daniel Haqiqatjou: Why Islam Is the Fastest-Growing Religion in the West | DSH #1614

Summary

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Podcast Summary: Digital Social Hour

Episode: Daniel Haqiqatjou - Why Islam Is the Fastest-Growing Religion in the West | DSH #1614

Host: Sean Kelly
Guest: Daniel Haqiqatjou ("Haifa" in transcript)
Date: November 10, 2025

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Overview

In this episode of Digital Social Hour, host Sean Kelly welcomes Islamic thinker and public intellectual Daniel Haqiqatjou. The conversation dives into Haqiqatjou’s experiences as a Muslim commentator in the West, the reasons behind Islam’s rapid growth in the US and Europe, the challenges of censorship and coordinated influence, and the roles of media, social structure, and tradition in shaping society. The discussion also covers topics like gender roles in Islam, the power dynamics of the Israeli lobby, the manipulation of alternative media, and the psychological toll of modern Western atomization.

The episode is a blend of personal anecdote, political critique, and cultural analysis, with both men questioning the narratives pushed in mainstream and social media and the authenticity of cultural influencers. It’s a sharp, unfiltered look at why Islam is gaining traction—and the resistance those who speak for it face in the West.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Being a Muslim Dissident in the West

• Censorship, Backlash, and Debanking:

  • Daniel shares examples of being targeted due to his faith, including his debates being disrupted (03:00-04:20) and his Iranian father’s pre- and post-9/11 banking restrictions (00:00, 09:04):

    "Because I have an Iranian background…his money was frozen for a while at one of the banks...He wasn’t charged with any kind of crime...But still that’s not enough because of suspicion...His money was frozen for a period of time."
    — Daniel Haqiqatjou (00:00, 09:04)

  • Speaking events often require security due to protest and backlash—e.g., Queens College, where the university president publicly condemned him (03:04-04:10).

• Campus and Media Crackdown:

  • Post-Trump, universities have been pressured to curb pro-Palestine speech:

    "Trump gets in office and he starts pulling funding...assigning anti-semitism officials...to give the campus a report card for levels of anti-semitism."
    — Daniel Haqiqatjou (04:57-06:00)

  • Attempts at organizing or debating on campuses are often quickly shut down (06:29-06:41).

2. The Digital Age: Surveillance, Censorship, and the Cashless Society

• The movement toward a digital/cashless economy is ripe for further control and surveillance:

  "If censorship continues to increase, they could just shut down, shut things down. Like, okay, no more channel, no more podcast, no more...now you can’t fly...you can’t use a credit card."
  — Daniel Haqiqatjou (07:38-08:07)

• The tactic of first targeting marginalized groups (Muslims after 9/11) creates legal and cultural precedents, later used more widely (09:04-11:20).

3. Islam's Growth in the West: Why and for Whom?

• Demographics & Conversion

  • Muslim population in the US is growing due to both higher birth rates and conversion—especially among women (12:32-13:07):

    "Biggest in terms of gender demographic in converting to Islam is actually women.”
    — Daniel Haqiqatjou (13:00)

• Attraction to Traditional Gender Roles:

  • Mainstream Western culture increasingly promotes "agender" ideals; Islam offers defined roles many find fulfilling:

    “As a woman, I like to be submissive...protected by a stronger man...dedicated to my husband and my kids at home...That’s what I feel comfortable in...I don’t want to go and be a boss babe.”
    — Daniel Haqiqatjou (15:16)

• Search for Meaning & Structure:

  • Modern Western societies’ atomization and lack of purpose lead to mental health crises:

    "People become depressed, anxious...then the solution...is just to medicate...It’s very dysfunctional.”
    — Daniel Haqiqatjou (17:22)

  • Religion (especially Islam) provides guidance, structure, and fulfillment:

    "That’s why I like about Islam...Islam as a traditional religion...we do have practices and values and beliefs that we try to maintain and preserve. We don’t want to be changing with the times.”
    — Daniel Haqiqatjou (18:14)

4. Tradition vs. Progress: Transhumanism, Enlightenment, and the Denigration of Belief

• The West’s drive for “progress” often means erasing tradition and religion—rooted in Enlightenment thinking (21:01-22:27).

• Transhumanist ideals are critiqued as a logical extension of this impulse, with Daniel warning against losing what makes us human:

  “The human body is so limiting...we can change all of it according to technology...But there’s another side to that, the dark side.”
  — Daniel Haqiqatjou (22:46-25:44)

• World Economic Forum & Tech as Tools of Control:

  • Emerging tech (like brainwave reading implants) presented as tools for workplace productivity but constitute invasive control (25:54-27:12).

5. Media Manipulation—Who Can We Trust?

• Social and alternative media are often just as bought and coordinated as mainstream (29:39-30:20):

  "Alternative media has been compromised...Who’s authentic and how do you determine that?"
  — Host (30:17, Daniel Haqiqatjou 30:38)

• Influence operations on social media (including "bot farms" and AI-driven campaigns) are used to manufacture consent, shape public opinion, and suppress critics (32:24-36:16).

• High-profile influencers and even some left-wing online personalities are being paid by various power centers to push narratives (e.g., Bread Tube, Tim Pool, David Pakman, Qatar, Russia) (27:48-29:04).

6. Palestine, Israel, and Double Standards in Media and Activism

• Coordinated Campaigns & Bots:

  • Haqiqatjou is regularly subjected to coordinated smears and deplatforming, attributed to both Israeli and Gulf State interests (32:24-33:48):

    "There are coordinated campaigns...they spend millions of dollars to create these online bot farms...Now with AI, they can just easily automate everything."
    — Daniel Haqiqatjou (32:24-33:13)

• Influence Through Culture:

  • AI will allow for microtargeted “influencer” accounts to infiltrate interest-based communities with subtle political messages (35:50-36:16).
  • Deepfakes and crude manipulation (like Photoshopping him with CIA imagery or Israeli flags) are already attempted tactics (36:26).

• Disillusionment with "Alternative" Interviewers:

  • The PBD (Patrick Bet-David)/Netanyahu interview is critiqued as propaganda, with PBD accused of "glazing" a war criminal and abandoning authentic questioning (36:40-39:04).

    “He’s pushing something that is indefensible...you’re interviewing [Netanyahu] and you’re rolling out the red carpet...no pushback...it’s propaganda.”
    — Daniel Haqiqatjou (38:47)

7. Debate Culture—Competence, Candor, and Personal Experience

• Daniel shares his approach to debates—only engaging when 1000% confident in his researched position (50:19).
• He discusses a notable debate with J.F. Gariepy, a white nationalist PhD, who conceded after the opening statement (48:55-50:09).

  “He said, well, you win. Like, you had the better argument...He actually conceded the debate.”
  — Daniel Haqiqatjou (49:14)

• Daniel’s own shifts in perspective came primarily from informal debates (e.g., moving from Shia to Sunni Islam after conversations and research) (51:14-51:44).

8. Media Programming: Islamophobia in Film & Education

• Hollywood's deliberate vilification of Muslims/Arabs—often with Israeli government input—has shaped public perception for decades.

  “Israeli government was involved in some of these Hollywood movies...Jewish producers...foreign minister of Israel to...produce these types of movies...Delta Force with Chuck Norris.”
  — Daniel Haqiqatjou (55:52-56:15)

• Universities like Harvard have a documented history of anti-Muslim bias, where official channels promoted narratives painting Muslim students as potentially violent (53:06-55:35).

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On conversion and gender roles:

  "Biggest in terms of gender demographic in converting to Islam is actually women."
  — Daniel Haqiqatjou (13:00)

• On loss of meaning in the West:

  "We have become atomized as individuals...it’s a very lonely life...social needs met with friends...but even that’s being replaced because of social media..."
  — Daniel Haqiqatjou (16:18-17:21)

• On surveillance and cashless society:

  "Since we’re moving into a cashless society and everything is digital, you can start restricting where people can buy things."
  — Daniel Haqiqatjou (08:07)

• On the illusion of "alternative media" independence:

  "Alternative media has been compromised...who’s authentic and how do you determine that?"
  — Sean Kelly, Daniel Haqiqatjou (30:17-30:38)

• On PBD/ValueTainment and propaganda:

  "He’s pushing something that is indefensible...interviewing a war criminal...no pushback...it’s propaganda."
  — Daniel Haqiqatjou (38:47-39:04)

• On Islam and tradition:

  "God revealed a certain template for life...He’s given us a template with details and that’s been preserved over 1400 years...and we feel that’s fulfilling, that’s satisfying… gives us a kind of happiness and self containment that is not found outside of that."
  — Daniel Haqiqatjou (18:14-19:14)

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Key Timestamps

• Hostility at public debates and university backlash: 03:00–04:20
• Campus censorship and donor-driven policy: 04:19–06:21
• Censorship, deplatforming, and the risks of a cashless surveillance society: 07:36–09:04
• Historical discrimination and “debanking” Muslims: 09:04–11:20
• Islam’s rapid growth, demographic and appeal (especially for women): 12:32–15:16
• Mental health, atomization, search for purpose: 16:06–18:13
• Tradition, progress, Enlightenment, and transhumanism: 20:34–25:44
• Media manipulation and influencer co-optation: 29:39–33:48
• AI-powered influence and deepfakes: 35:50–36:26
• Netanyahu interviews and alternative media hypocrisy: 36:40–39:04
• Media, Hollywood, and programmed Islamophobia: 55:29–56:41

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Tone and Atmosphere

The episode is marked by a critical, probing tone—with both Daniel and Sean voicing skepticism about mainstream and so-called alternative narratives. There’s camaraderie and open respect between host and guest, plus intermittent humor and personal disclosure to balance the high-stakes subject matter.

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Takeaway

This episode critically explores the societal shifts underlying Islam’s growth in the West—a search for structure, authenticity, and tradition often found lacking in mainstream culture. Daniel Haqiqatjou provides a considered voice connecting personal experience (as a Muslim, a debater, and a target of censorship) with larger patterns of state and media control, warning of a future where dissent is increasingly difficult and the boundary between influence and manipulation blurs. For listeners curious about modern Islam, free speech, and the changing landscape of Western culture, this conversation is candid, timely, and essential.

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Transcript

[Daniel Haifa]

Dissidents that we see today. Muslims were really targeted. Muslims were targeted after 9 11. So a lot of these kinds of restrictions that you see on banking. I've had relatives back 15 years ago, 20 years ago actually that were debanked. My own dad, he wasn't debanked, but his money in a bank like this is even before 9 11. Because I have an Iranian background. My dad is from Iran. I was born in the us but because of his background, his money was frozen for a while at one of the banks. It was very difficult for him to unfreeze that. Even though like he wasn't charged with any kind of crime. Has been working actually, actually in NASA, working for the space program as an engineer. But still that's not enough because of suspicion. And you're kind of like a political outsider. This fifth column. Oh, you're Muslim? Iranian. Because of the whole conflict between the US and Iran since 1979. His money was frozen for a period of time.

[Podcast Host]

Okay, guys, we got Daniel here today in Las Vegas. Thanks for taking the flight over, man. It's good to see you.

[Daniel Haifa]

My pleasure. Thanks for inviting me.

[Podcast Host]

I know we set this up a while ago. What's been new in your world lately?

[Daniel Haifa]

Nothing much, just continuing with debating. I have a show that I do regularly talking about religion and politics and things related to what is happening in the US with Israel and the Middle East. So a lot of things.

[Podcast Host]

Nice. You just debated David Wood, right?

[Daniel Haifa]

Yeah, I had a debate. He's a Christian apologist and I've debated him before, but we talked about different theological issues. But one of the debates we had was about the fact that the greatest base of support for what the US is doing in supporting Israel is from the Christian conservatives. And I was pointing out that there's a kind of hypocrisy with Christians who claim that they love everyone and that they're so concerned with the poor and the destitute and the oppressed. But the Palestinians are the most oppressed in the world and their government with their mandate is giving major arms and bombs, 2000 pound bombs to Israel to drop on poor women and children and the people of Gaza. So he was very uncomfortable with that line of argumentation. And this debate was happening in a church. So it was like a Christian audience. And they became very hostile. They started shouting me down, cursing me and yeah, it became quite a zoo in the church.

[Podcast Host]

So he had home field advantage.

[Daniel Haifa]

Yeah.

[Podcast Host]

Yeah. I wonder, did you want to have a more neutral setting or did you agree to that setting?

[Daniel Haifa]

Usually when I Do in person debates. It's in a hostile setting. Oh, so I've been heck. It is. So I've been heckled pretty much in every in person debate that I have because I debate atheists, I debate Christians, I debate all kinds of religions. And it can get pretty hostile when you're in person. Most of my debates are just virtually through like Streamyard or whatever. But in person debates is usually hostile crowd because there's also fewer Muslims in the United States than compared to Christians or atheists or other groups. So it's always. I'm on the, you know, I have the disadvantage, they have the home field advantage. So.

[Podcast Host]

Yeah, you might have to start rolling with security man.

[Daniel Haifa]

Yeah. Oh, there was one, because there was a event that I did last year. It was a talk at Queens College in Brooklyn, New York, and it was a lecture that the student group, the Muslim student group wanted me to give on Judaism in Israel. And there was a huge backlash, trying to prevent me from having a platform to speak. And even the president of Queens College by name, like, called me out and denounced me and condemned me. So there's going to be this speaker who's going to come, Daniel Hayraju, on our campus and he is like, of the worst of the worst. We completely disapprove. But because of freedom of speech, we can't cancel it. So there was security at that event from the university. Like, the university, because there were Jewish groups who were protesting and even like picketing outside, like with a huge Israeli flag and like handing out flyers like, Daniel's a menace. Like, Daniel is this. Whatever. So there was like four security guards surrounding me because I was sitting like at the front to give the lecture.

[Podcast Host]

Yeah.

[Daniel Haifa]

And there was like a huge police officer standing right next to me.

[Podcast Host]

So that's nuts. Some of these big universities seem to be very pro Israel, right?

[Daniel Haifa]

Yeah. They have a lot of donors, they have a lot of wealthy donors that can pull the plug. Their board of trustees, often it's like at the highest level such that even the president, like, has to answer to someone above him or the deans. So it becomes a very controlled environment. And it's only gotten worse with the kind of measures that Trump has taken. As soon as he got into office, he like, started going after Harvard University, University of Pennsylvania, mit, all the Ivy Leagues, basically, Columbia especially. Why? Because these universities are allowing pro Palestine protests on campus.

[Podcast Host]

You think that's why he went after them?

[Daniel Haifa]

Yeah, I mean, this is something that they were planning in advance before Trump got in office. So you had different Think tanks, conservative groups that had this agenda that we need a Republican president in office so that he can fight anti Semitism on our behalf and to identify the, you know, Hamas supporters in the country, quote, unquote. What is a Hamas supporter? Basically, anyone who criticizes Israel or anyone who has a problem with genocide. That's a. That's a, quote, unquote, Hamas supporter. So we need to crack down on a legal basis, and a Republican president in office will help us do that. They call it Project Esther. Like, this is the term that the Heritage foundation used to. And this. This was their goal before Trump got in office. Trump gets in office and he starts pulling funding, hundreds of millions of dollars in federal funding from these universities. He starts assigning anti Semitism officials, like anti Semitism Czar to be on each campus, to give the campus a report card for levels of anti Semitism.

[Podcast Host]

That's crazy. I didn't know that.

[Daniel Haifa]

Yeah. So if they don't get a passing grade in terms of shutting down protests, shutting down any kind of professor, any kind of professor who is too anti Israel or pro Palestinian is. Has to be either disciplined or removed from their position and replaced. Otherwise you get a bad score as a university, and then you can't get federal funding.

[Podcast Host]

Wow.

[Daniel Haifa]

So this is a major crackdown on universities, and Trump is, you know, full steam ahead trying to implement this.

[Podcast Host]

That's interesting. So if you wanted to do what Charlie Kirk does and set up a little booth and set up your own debates, you probably wouldn't be allowed.

[Daniel Haifa]

Yeah, campus police would get involved pretty quickly.

[Podcast Host]

Wow. So you can only do that at maybe private universities.

[Daniel Haifa]

Yeah, private. Or you can find like, some kind of public street that a lot of students cross. And it's not technically on campus, but it's like, close enough to campus where there are a lot of students. That's. That's a loophole that can use.

[Podcast Host]

I know. Myron's doing that kind of right with Uncensored America.

[Daniel Haifa]

Yeah. From Fresh and Fit.

[Podcast Host]

Yeah. Yeah. What do you think of him? Have you had any discussions with Myron?

[Daniel Haifa]

Yeah, I've met Myron before. He's really nice guy, and he puts out a lot of good content, especially now. He's a good debater. Like, he able to handle a crowd, so it's very entertaining.

[Podcast Host]

And I like what he's doing on the streets of Miami now, too.

[Daniel Haifa]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Podcast Host]

Shout out to Myon man. He's. He's holding his ground. I know he's very polarizing, but you got to respect that he stands on his beliefs.

[Daniel Haifa]

Right. Yeah. Because I, I, why respect him for, for real is the fact that he's going out on a limb against Israel and that has a big cost. And I, you as well, like, you have tik tok. Yeah, yeah, you lost your tik tok. You have guests on that are pro Palestine and speaking for that cause. And you, you have to pay the price. Like literally.

[Podcast Host]

No, literally pay dollars out of my pocket.

[Daniel Haifa]

Yeah, yeah. I mean, it could get a lot, a lot worse for anyone actually. Like, if censorship continues to increase, they could just shut down, shut things down. Like, okay, no more channel, no more podcast, no more. And then it could get into like, well, now you can't fly. Like you're on the no fly list, or you can't use a credit card or you can't. Like, I was actually talking about this recently. Like, since we're moving into a cashless society and everything is digital, you can start restricting where people can buy things.

[Podcast Host]

Wow.

[Daniel Haifa]

Okay, you can't shop on Amazon. You have to actually go to a physical store and only these stores because you're restricted from everything else. So even being able to buy with your own money can be restricted, let alone the fact that you're just being surveilled. Like you can't use certain apps because you're going to be banned. Like, yeah, sure, you won't have a channel or social media platform, you won't have TikTok, but even other applications can start like limiting your usage. And this is all created because of, you know, this need to surveil the population. Control, anti Semitism, control, hate. It's, it's pretty dystopian. Like it's a dark future, black mirror type future.

[Podcast Host]

Yeah, that does sound scary. They did some of that to Fuentes, right? Yeah, yeah, they debunked him. I got debunked, but that was actually because of crypto or. But that sucked. Obviously. I had a really good relationship with that bank, so I experienced that and luckily there's other banks. But imagine if you got debunked from every single bank. Like I think Nick, that might have happened to Nick. So that, that'd be tough to live like that.

[Daniel Haifa]

Yeah, he definitely faced the brunt of a lot of these restrictions. Like, and they usually roll out these types of restrictions against people who aren't necessarily the most powerful or the most popular. Right. So, okay, we can do this against like a 19 year old or 20 year old and no one's going to really step in to call that out and say this is government overreach. This is contrary to his civil rights, et cetera, et cetera, because he's irrelevant. Like, at that time when they first started doing this, he was not as well known. That's. They deliberately target people like that because then the policies in place and you have a legal precedent, and then you can expand it and start targeting other people, but then it's too late, like to protest that because they've already put the mechanisms in place, the legal mechanisms, the political mechanisms before, even like Nick Fuentes or some of the other dissidents that we see today. Muslims were really targeted. Muslims were targeted after 9 11. So a lot of these kinds of restrictions that you see on banking, like, I've had relatives back, you know, 15 years ago, 20 years ago, actually, that were debanked. My. My own dad, he wasn't debanked, but his money became in a bank. Like, this is even before 9 11, because I have an Iranian background, so my dad is from Iran. I was born in the US but because of his background, like, his money was frozen for a while at one of the banks, w. And it was very difficult for him to unfreeze that. Even though, like, he. He wasn't charged with any kind of crime there. He, you know, has been working actually in NASA as a. As, you know, working for the space program as an engineer. But still that's not enough, like, because of suspicion. And you're kind of like a political outsider, like this fifth column. Oh, you're Muslim. Iranian. Because of the whole conflict between the US and Iran since 1979. His money was. Was frozen for a period of time. And others as well, like, so these kinds of tactics that we see more recently, they actually have longer routes, like older routes, and Muslims were the ones targeted because Muslims are like a small minority in the U.S. maybe 1 to 3% of the population in the U.S. so then they. They put a lot of these restrictions targeting Muslims first, and then they roll it out to the majority populations as needed.

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[Podcast Host]

I did not know that was going on. How's the Muslim population these days? Is it growing? Is it shrinking?

[Daniel Haifa]

In the US it's growing partly because of birth rate, partly because of immigration. So there are a lot of Muslims coming in from different parts of the world. A lot of war torn parts of the world. But I mean, this is a. Also a point of conversation. I don't know how deep we want to get into the immigration issue. Yeah, but, yeah, so that the population is growing also because of conversion. Like people are becoming Muslim. A lot of women convert to Islam.

[Podcast Host]

Really?

[Daniel Haifa]

Yeah. Biggest in terms of gender demographic in converting to Islam is actually women.

[Podcast Host]

Holy crap.

[Daniel Haifa]

Yeah.

[Podcast Host]

That's not what you see on the traditional media news.

[Daniel Haifa]

Yeah. I mean the media demonizes Muslims, especially the woman, Right? Yeah. Like women are oppressed and women are this and that. But I think what attracts women to Islam maybe is just gender roles. Like this is something that people actually on a biological level, like they care about and they don't know that it's missing. Like the fact that people are kind of raised within a Western system of just being kind of agender, like, like without gender lists basically. And there's no. Like everyone is expected to have the same path in life and have the same kind of aspirations and personality. Like there's no gender distinction. Like these are traditionally masculine roles or masculine personality versus female. That's all seen as misogyny. That's all seen like backwards patriarchy and every. And there's been a concerted effort for many years to kind of erase gender distinction. We're all just people.

[Podcast Host]

Yeah.

[Daniel Haifa]

Right. And Islam is like other traditional religions, other traditional cultures is contrary to that. Like. No. Well, being a man h means something. You have a certain role, like you have a certain position in your family. Being a woman, that means something. You have a position in society that will differ based on your gender expectations in terms of supporting a family, financially, etc. So you see someone like Andrew Tate come on the scene and some of these red pill influencers and they're kind of calling to that more generally. Like, we want to return to this notion of gender. I think they don't really go far enough. Like, I really. Yeah, because I think it's kind of. They keep it vague. Like things are very vague. And it's limited to maybe like dating culture. And they don't go specifically into, well, what does it mean, like, for you to be a husband? What does it mean for you to be like a wife? What are specific, like, rules? Like, yeah, the specifics. That's where it kind of falls off the rails and it's just something more generic. So when you have a religion, like a traditional religion, like Islam and everything is defined in that way, some people think that that's like constraining. But the majority of people, I think that they eventually become Muslim. They feel like they're. This is like fulfilling what they always wanted. Like, okay, I have a path. Like, I have expectations and it matches like what I inherently feel like as a biological man or biological woman. And like, I, as a woman, I like to be submissive. I like to be, you know, protected by a stronger man. I like to be dedicated to my husband and my kids at home and, and I don't want to go and be a boss babe. I don't want to go and work and do the rat race and try to make money. This is what I feel comfortable in. And I've spent, you know, decades in school and because of media and social conditioning to want to be like this career woman and to have it all and to really dominate on the political or career space or finance. But that's not really what I like. That's not what I feel is right for me.

[Podcast Host]

Yeah, that's where you and I will probably agree. I think there's a lot of mental health issues right now, and I think it's because of lack of purpose. You know, I mean, I don't, I think a lot of people just don't know what they want. And I think religion can help God guide you in that direction.

[Daniel Haifa]

Yeah, I think that religion has answers to those big questions. And different religions will differ. But what's the alternative to that is like, okay, well, I don't really know what my purpose is. Like, is my purpose on life to just go work and like, I mean, a lot of us are blessed. Like, we don't have to have a 9 to 5 job or we don't have to be tied to that kind of being, like a blue collar worker, for example. But for the majority of people, like okay, that's life. Like, I have to go and do this job I hate, I have to suffer and I make money. And then when I come home, I don't even have a family anymore. Because we have become atomized as individuals in society. Like, parents are estranged from their children, brothers are estranged from their brothers, and sisters are estranged, etc. That's. It's a very lonely life. And then you're supposed to, like, replace that or get your kind of emotional and social needs net met with friends. But even that's being replaced because of social media. Like, we just have these parasocial relationships through the phone.

[Podcast Host]

Yep.

[Daniel Haifa]

And it's your body. Like, your subconscious knows that that's not real. Like, that's not a real replacement for what we actually need. So people become depressed, they become anxious, they suffer from all kinds of psychological disorders. And then the solution in the modern world is just to medicate, medicate those problems. Antidepressants. So it's very dysfunctional. And people see, like, for a lot of the recent history, like, you had a new atheist movement, for example, that has really demonized religion as a whole. Like, why would anyone want to be religious? Like, why would you want to, like, be chained? Like, you're chained and you're like a slave. You have all these burdens to abide by religious norms. Like, these are just restrictions. What could be good about that? It's just a burden. Like, this is something from the Stone Ages. We, we have to be progressive. We have to be modern. We are free to do whatever we want, however we want it.

[Podcast Host]

Ye.

[Daniel Haifa]

But now people are kind of realizing that, well, too much freedom is actually a bad thing. Like, too much freedom, too much choice. Like, if you have a lot of choices, you come paralyzed with choice. Like, how do I live my life? I actually need guidance. Like, I need. It would be great, like, if there was a pattern, like a blueprint for how to live life. And that doesn't mean I have no choice. That doesn't mean, like, everything. I have to go buy a certain template. But at least there's like a blueprint, a guideline. There's at least guidance for me to live my life. And, you know, as a Muslim, that's why I like about Islam. Like, there is. And Islam as a traditional religion. Like, we do have practices and values and beliefs that we try to maintain and preserve. And we don't want to change. We don't want to be, you know, changing with the times. We don't want to be adapting. Like, that's seen as being progressive and adapting a scene as a good thing. But from the Muslim standpoint, that's actually bad. Like God revealed a certain template for life. God is our creator. God is the one who knows like what's going to be best for us, what's going to be most fulfilling for us and what's most functional for us as individuals and the family and a marriage and society. So he's given us a template with details and, and that's been preserved like over 1400 years since it was revealed in the Quran. And then we want to preserve that, we want to abide by that and we feel that that's fulfilling, that's satisfying, that is something that gives us a kind of happiness and self containment that is not found outside of that. And if you kind of get into this space where no, no, we have to progress. Anything that comes from the past is backwards. Like that's from the stone ages. Like this kind of mentality that only the latest is the greatest, what's fresh is the best. That mentality. Then you have to get rid of all religions, you have to get rid of all cultures, you have to get rid of all, you know, traditional ways of life. And then what do you come, come away with? It's like a malaise, it's like being lost. That many people do feel like I don't really know how to live my life or I don't see fine, I, I just go with what I've, I've known, what I've seen from others, from society. It's like peer pressure. But what is actually ultimately the purpose of this? Yeah, and a lot of people have that, this kind of existential dread.

[Podcast Host]

Yeah, it'd be hard to picture a society without religion.

[Daniel Haifa]

Well, a lot of people have been working towards that. Yeah, a lot of people have been working towards society without religion. Like some, there's been more extreme programs for that. Like with communism. Right. Communism deliberately viewed religion as something that needs to be eliminated. Like it's something that's the opiate of the masses. It has to be exterminated.

[Podcast Host]

Wow.

[Daniel Haifa]

They destroyed churches, they destroyed mosques, they killed millions. The Christians, Muslims, like in Soviet Russia for example.

[Podcast Host]

Jeez.

[Daniel Haifa]

But even like a more less aggressive version of that is like American liberalism, like with the founding fathers, like people like Thomas Jefferson, for example, they thought that, well, we shouldn't really be constrained by the dictates of the church or the dictates of the Bible. Even like we are free thinkers, we are not limited by these traditions and we should be willing to explore beyond them and adapt with new technologies, with new ways of life. So that kind of opposition to traditionalism and religion is actually something that goes way back, you know, 300 years. So it actually came from the enlightenment European context with European philosophers, and they were deliberately going against the church and the, and the Bible in the European context to say that, look, we have science and we have technology. We've had. We just had the scientific revolution. We have all these new technologies and life has to evolve and has to progress, otherwise we're going to be constrained by these superstitions, these religious superstitions. So we have to be willing to get rid of these kinds of old ways of life, like that, ideas of marriage or family, even now, ideas of gender. Like, why should be we be restricted to, like, male and female? Like, that's something I don't know. Do you see that Peter Thiel interview that he did with the New York Times?

[Podcast Host]

I saw a clip.

[Daniel Haifa]

I think, yeah, it was crazy because the interviewer asked Peter Thiel, you know, this multi billionaire co founder of PayPal, and asked him, do you think that the human. Human being should persist?

[Podcast Host]

Yeah, yeah.

[Daniel Haifa]

Do you see that? And then he, like, paused. No, he didn't say no, but he said, he said, yeah, but after like a minute of thinking and then he expl that, like, he, he kind of clarified that. What he meant is, like, human beings as they are now, like, why can't we imagine, like a better thing than a human being? Like, human beings are limited. Like, we're limited by our bodies, we're limited by our minds. Like, what about implanting certain things or transforming, like, whatever you want? Like, why can't we have wings? Like, why can't we be in the cloud? Like our, like our minds be uploaded to the cloud. Like, this is a kind of transhumanist vision. And people like Peter Thiel and other billionaires like that, even Elon Musk, to a certain degree, like, they think that, well, the human body is so limiting. Like, why should we limit ourselves to the tradition of, like, having this body with this psychology, with this mind, like, we can change all of it according to technology, and we should have the freedom and choice to be able to do that. And that's exactly the kind of logic that it didn't start with, like, Peter Thiel and Elon Musk, like, this kind of transhumanism, it has its roots, boots, in enlightenment philosophy. Like the idea that, because if, you know, you go back 300 years and you ask some of those thinkers like John Stuart Mill or Jeremy Bentham or whoever that what should human beings like be limited by their bodies? Like, and you explain to them the technology could actually do these crazy things like put AI super intelligence in a person's head. They would be for that. They'd be for. Because their philosophy, their whole philosophy is progressive. Like we have to continuously advance and advance and advance and that's only going to make things better and better and better. But there's another side to that, the dark side of that. Like, and people like when you laugh and I laugh when we talk about like transhumanism is because we viscerally realize that, no, that that'd be terrible. Like that'd be really bad. Like that would mean that the human race goes extinct. Like humans as we know it would go extinct for something else. Like for a transhumanist future. And that's very disturbing. And that's the same kind of reaction that like religious people have or they had like 300 years ago to the reforms that were being introduced, like to socially transform, you know, Europe or the rest of the world, to forcefully get people to leave their traditions and their values, like their Christian values or their Islamic values or whatever traditional religion or culture, you have to leave it to adopt progress, non stop progress on the basis of technology. People were very hesitant and very disturbed in the same way that we're disturbed about trans, a transhumanist future for that reason. So I think that we have to recognize the value of tradition and not see it as a kind of burden or something that is constraining us. That's the kind of attitude that I tried to promote in my teaching and writing.

[Podcast Host]

I remember when that transhumanism stuff was like a conspiracy theory, but now these guys are just so blatant about it. It's like they don't care anymore. Right? They don't hide.

[Daniel Haifa]

They don't hide it.

[Podcast Host]

Yeah, it's in plain sight now.

[Daniel Haifa]

Yeah, even like the World Economic Forum, like they were having in one of the recent conferences at Davos, they have an annual conference and they were, they had a presentation that I watched. Like it's, it's still online. You can watch it. It's not conspiracy theory. And they're talking about how you have this implant that can read your brain waves and when it, when it is able to read your brainwaves, it can decode to actually be able to read your thoughts. And the presentation was about how this technology can be used as like a management tool. Like you're working at a company and they want to make sure. That the employees are productive. Like they're not daydreaming or they're not like thinking about something other than, than work also. But there's there it was saying it as like, this is a positive. Like this is something that will increase productivity but also safety. Because imagine like you have an employee who has some kind of like, indecent thought about like another employee. So avoid like sexual harassment or to avoid, like you just call that person like, oh, you know, we saw these patterns.

[Podcast Host]

We thought we saw your thoughts.

[Daniel Haifa]

Yeah, we saw that you're like a pervert, basically. And then we're like, that's the kind of technology that they have now. And the people who are at the top, they are, you know, very actively trying to apply it to control people's lives.

[Podcast Host]

Holy crap. Yeah, dude, I got invited to that event.

[Daniel Haifa]

Oh, really?

[Podcast Host]

Yeah, yeah, I got invited to some really interesting events. I think once you reach a certain amount of viewership, they try to like, low key recruit you into weird, you know. Yeah, it's scary, man. Like, I'll have in person events and like a group of them will show up and invite me. Yeah, the World Economic Forum. And I've done some research on that, so I'll, I'll pass on that event for now. Yeah, yeah, you know, it's nuts, man. I'm sure you get some interesting offers too, these days.

[Daniel Haifa]

Yeah, I have in the past I've gotten interesting offers, but I think now they know, like, that I'm not really changing your stance. Yeah, not changing my stance or I'm not, you know, easily bought, so.

[Podcast Host]

Yeah, a lot of people in our space are bought. There was an article yesterday that exposed a lot of people on the left. Did you see that?

[Daniel Haifa]

No.

[Podcast Host]

By the Wired magazine.

[Daniel Haifa]

Bread tube.

[Podcast Host]

Is that red tube? What is that?

[Daniel Haifa]

No, bread tube.

[Podcast Host]

Oh, bread.

[Daniel Haifa]

That's the old term for like the leftists, like people like Destiny Vosh and left wing YouTube that their channels just get a lot of engagement and they're shilling a lot of time for Democratic candidates.

[Podcast Host]

Okay. Yeah, I guess it was similar to that. It was like David, Pac man and a few others got called out. Eight receiving $8,000 a month.

[Daniel Haifa]

Eighty thousand.

[Podcast Host]

Eight thousand.

[Daniel Haifa]

Oh, eight.

[Podcast Host]

Which is.

[Daniel Haifa]

That's all.

[Podcast Host]

That's not even. I mean, it's all relative, I guess.

[Daniel Haifa]

But for me, that's 8,000.

[Podcast Host]

A lot of you.

[Daniel Haifa]

Well, to just get it for like, what, a few tweets, like here and there?

[Podcast Host]

Yeah. I don't know what the exact arrangement was, but I guess just to promote Them casually. But it wasn't as much as like the Tim Pool money. Right. You saw that?

[Daniel Haifa]

Yeah. From Russia.

[Podcast Host]

Yeah. That was what, 10 million a year?

[Daniel Haifa]

Yeah.

[Podcast Host]

I mean, that's pretty crazy.

[Daniel Haifa]

Massive.

[Podcast Host]

I'd be hard to turn down.

[Daniel Haifa]

Yeah, yeah.

[Podcast Host]

Russia.

[Daniel Haifa]

Russia hasn't reached out to me with 10 million.

[Podcast Host]

Qatar hasn't reached out to you?

[Daniel Haifa]

No. Yeah, for sure.

[Podcast Host]

Qatar hasn't got Tucker and Candace. Allegedly.

[Daniel Haifa]

Yeah. They're the Qatari lobby. It's really quite. The tentacles of Qatar spread far and wide.

[Podcast Host]

They're against Israel, right?

[Daniel Haifa]

Qatar, yeah, yeah. In certain ways. I mean, Israel is what they claim, but it's like the claim that there's a Qatari lobby, I mean, that's just tongue in cheek, but I mean, they're seriously advancing that to distract from the people who actually do have control. And you clearly have an Israeli lobby and their power is undeniable. Yeah, but power likes to hide itself. Power likes to hide its influence in order to be more powerful.

[Podcast Host]

So, yeah, whenever I see headlines now, I'm asking myself, like, who. Who's behind this? I don't just believe it anymore.

[Daniel Haifa]

Yeah.

[Podcast Host]

That's sort of how you have to think these days. Right.

[Daniel Haifa]

People have. They've lost trust in the mainstream media for sure. Like, if you look at the favorability ratings of something like cnn, like even in Trump's first term, like, there's just no trust about the mainstream media. But when it comes to social media, like, people see their infl. Like all these famous influencers or even celebrities, and they have these things coming up on their feet, like, they're more likely to trust that and see that as organic, where. I think your point is that even that is heavily bought and heavily controlled as these days.

[Podcast Host]

Yeah.

[Daniel Haifa]

People haven't caught up yet to realize.

[Podcast Host]

That because it's kind of new, I guess.

[Daniel Haifa]

Yeah.

[Podcast Host]

But they. I think alternative media has been compromised.

[Daniel Haifa]

Yeah.

[Podcast Host]

I'm on the insides of it. I've gotten offers and I could see the money these shows are making. And I think even if it's not directly like, yo, I'll give you this money, just say this and this. I think it's like, indirectly too, with.

[Daniel Haifa]

Some of their sponsors, like being able to get invited and have access to some of the bigger venues.

[Podcast Host]

Exactly.

[Daniel Haifa]

You have to, you know, go along with it if you want to want that access. So. Yeah, yeah, it's tough problem, like who's authentic and how do you determine that?

[Podcast Host]

I could probably name on one hand who I think is authentic. You're probably the same, right?

[Daniel Haifa]

Yeah.

[Podcast Host]

There's not many more than that.

[Daniel Haifa]

One thing that like within my sphere is with the whole war between Israel and Palestine, like it made clear, like who is really compromised. Because the way that they talk, like the way that influencer will talk about the issue, like, is very revealing.

[Podcast Host]

Right. It says the same talking points as the next guy, right?

[Daniel Haifa]

Yeah, the same talking. Or they'll avoid saying certain things. They'll avoid like criticizing certain governments.

[Podcast Host]

Yeah.

[Daniel Haifa]

Or they'll like at certain, like critical moments, like when there's a 12 day war, when Israel attacked Iran and there was even the US bomb had that limited bombing of Iran's nuclear sites. That was. You see people who are Muslim who are coming out against Iran, like right at that time where Israel is bombing. So like, why would you come out like, and support Israel? You're a Muslim and yeah, you might not like Iran as a government, but why, like at that particular time, in accordance, in a very coordinate, coordinated way. I also get personally attacked, like in a coordinated way, like accounts that are not seemingly related to each other. And then later we find out that, oh yeah, these are this the part of the same network.

[Podcast Host]

Like they're mass support you.

[Daniel Haifa]

Right? Yeah, they, they mass report or they, they make all kinds of videos against me. Like smearing me, calling me this and that. Yeah. Like if you search my name, like there's a lot of content out there that is targeted directly against me.

[Podcast Host]

Wow.

[Daniel Haifa]

My name. Yeah.

[Podcast Host]

Is that on Twitter or is that on YouTube?

[Daniel Haifa]

Twitter, YouTube, TikTok, Instagram, everywhere.

[Podcast Host]

Crap.

[Daniel Haifa]

Yeah.

[Podcast Host]

Yeah, I'm sure they, they don't mind putting some money into that.

[Daniel Haifa]

Right? Yeah, I think there are a lot of. Because I'm also one of these people that criticizes the Middle Eastern governments for not doing enough like, or not in some cases, not doing anything for Palestine and in fact working with Israel, normalizing with Israel. So I'm a big critic of that. So there are coordinated campaigns from those countries and they call them like electronic flies. And this was reported like in the New York Times. Again, it's not conspiracy theory that some of the Gulf countries, they spend millions of dollars to create these online bot farms.

[Podcast Host]

Yeah.

[Daniel Haifa]

And in the past it's like actual people that they hire like for low wages to sit like in a, in a room and be tweeting stuff. But now with AI, they can just easily automate everything. Like you can automate all these influence campaigns on a mass scale. That's what's really concerning as well.

[Podcast Host]

That's crazy.

[Daniel Haifa]

That's super crazy. You know, no staley yeah, he's very popular.

[Podcast Host]

But he's Indian guy, right?

[Daniel Haifa]

He, he's Palestinian.

[Podcast Host]

Oh, he's Palestinian.

[Daniel Haifa]

He's like, he's Palestinian. But he has renounced essentially his Palestinian identity. I'm Israeli first.

[Podcast Host]

What?

[Daniel Haifa]

Yeah, yeah.

[Podcast Host]

How does that even happen?

[Daniel Haifa]

Yeah, well, another person is completely bought, like complete chill. But he, yeah, he's got a lot of backlash for this. But he is like, you know, super, super popular. He was actually promote one of the first accounts or influencers that was promoted heavily by Facebook, like in the early days of Facebook. He got millions of followers early on.

[Podcast Host]

Yeah, I used to see him everywhere.

[Daniel Haifa]

Yeah, because the algorithm was designed to like promote his content.

[Podcast Host]

Right.

[Daniel Haifa]

In a very calculated, specific way. So then NOS Daily was being interviewed by an Israeli actually, and he said that, you know, the, he was saying this is a good thing. Like I, as one individual, I can only make so many videos. Like I'm just one person. But with AI, like you can have a hundred people like me putting out in, in every language, like content that is going to be engaging. It's going to be like, it's going to look good, it's going to show up on people's feeds and it's going to like have the right message, you know, the right, you know, the right message. And he's openly like talking about this and working with intelligence agencies to implement this kind of technology. Yeah. So just imagine like, because the way that these influence campaigns work is that you have different interest groups, right. So you have people who are interested in crypto or you have people interested in soccer or whatever sport or music and you have like, let's say Taylor Swift, like she's an artist and then you have a lot of influencers who just orbiting her content or her music and follow her like celebrity gossip, etc. Now what if those hundred influencers, like, yeah, you can like buy them off and some will, you know, take that deal to promote your message or not. But what if you just create like a hundred influencers specifically for the Taylor Swift fan base or like, I don't know, Ronaldo or some football player or whatever. And those influencers, they, it's like football content or music content or pop culture or crypto or whatever, but you just insert that messaging, that political messaging like you know, support Israel or support Zionism or you know, support the Republican Party, whatever. Like that's like 5% of your message. But it just seems very organic. Like oh, and then the people who are consuming that content from those influencers, like, well, you know, they get Influenced by it because they think it's completely organic. That that messaging is just coming from, you know, the people that I follow in that interest, in that interest category.

[Podcast Host]

They'Re sneaky with it. Yeah. You got to be subtle these days. You can't be too blatant. Right. Because people catch on.

[Daniel Haifa]

Yeah. But with AI that can be automated, like it can be fine tuned, like the way that people interact with the content on social media, the way they engage in it, the AI can learn and become more and more progressively effective. So that's the, that's the scary part about it, is that the AI is going to constantly be learning and, and fine tuning in a way that like conventional means of influence management is not able to do.

[Podcast Host]

Yeah. Plus we're not even talking about the deepfakes too. Yeah, it's gonna be a ton of those. I'm sure they're gonna try to deep fake you to say something in the future. I wouldn't be surprised, honestly.

[Daniel Haifa]

Yeah, they've tried to do similar things with crude means like Photoshop, like Photoshopping me next to an Israeli flag. Someone photoshopped like a CIA page, like, oh, Daniel's a CIA agent and you.

[Podcast Host]

Got hit with the CIA tag. Yeah. Fuentes is a fed too. Yeah. What do you think of the Netanyahu PBD interview? Did you watch the whole thing yet?

[Daniel Haifa]

Yeah, yeah, I did a reaction to it. It was just so stupid and sad.

[Podcast Host]

Because I know you've been on PBD and I usually think he's a pretty fair interviewer.

[Daniel Haifa]

Yeah, I had a lot of hope. Like he, he's kind of someone who presented himself as an alternative voice. Right, right. And that's. And when you have like a. This environment of distrust against social media or mainstream media and then you have valuetainment PBD coming and he's going to give you the truth. He's going to tell you the truth about COVID he's going to tell you the truth about vaccines or whatever. He develops like a really hardcore faithful following. People like that. Okay. You're authentic, like you're willing to take risks to speak the truth. So he gained like a huge following off of that brand. But now people have been really disillusioned because he is pushing something that is indefensible, like pushing a war criminal. Like you're interviewing him and you're rolling out the red carpet. You're asking him these questions and you're not giving any pushback, like in that whole he. And you can look at the top comments like in the video, all of them are against him. Like, I read like the first hundred comments and there wasn't a single positive comment supporting PD or Netanyahu. Wow. And they're all calling him out like, you're a shill, like, very harshly. I think it was so harsh that he even like put out a reaction, like saying like, people are trying to kill me for. For just speaking. Like, so he was actually reacting to the backlash. I didn't watch that yet. Yeah, but it was. It was really extreme. I ratioed him too. Like, I was tweeting out. Even I was able to ratio pbd. But yeah, it was just very disgusting in the way that he platforms Netanyahu a war criminal. And he doesn't mention the killing of Palestinians. Like, he doesn't mention the death toll. He doesn't mention like any actual human loss of life on the Palestinian side. Like, it's not even a concern for him to even ask. And then the questions he does ask Netanyahu, he doesn't push back on the responses. Like, he just lets Netanyahu present himself as like, yeah, we're fighting it with this all defense. Like, we're just defending ourselves. And actually this war, we're doing it for America because we're the only thing. We're the only one standing in front of, like these terrorists. And if these terrorists, like Iran and the Palestinians had their way, they would bomb the United States. Like, all of this propaganda.

[Podcast Host]

Yeah.

[Daniel Haifa]

Then yao spreading pbd. I know he knows better. Like, I know that he knows better.

[Podcast Host]

He's pro Israel, right?

[Daniel Haifa]

Yeah, he's like, ever since October 7th, he's been like this.

[Podcast Host]

I know Adam is too. I don't know about the other two co hosts, but.

[Daniel Haifa]

Yeah, well, Adam, his co host is Jewish, so. And then. But PBD himself, like, he's Christian, half Assyrian, half Armenian.

[Podcast Host]

Yeah.

[Daniel Haifa]

And you'd think that as an Iranian too. Like, he. Because he was. He lived in Iran for a long time. Like, he would have some kind of concern about Israel bombing his country, but apparently not.

[Podcast Host]

Yeah.

[Daniel Haifa]

Which is weird because a lot within Iranian society, obviously there's a split. You have the more religious minded and then the more reform minded, secular minded. But since the war, like since Israel was bombing and hundreds of Iranians died, it kind of was a force of bringing people together. Like, even the people on different sides of the aisle were coming. Okay, you're religious. I'm not. But we need to stand together for Iran because this is crazy. Like, Israel is offensively attacking us and causing all this attacking civilian areas, and it's causing all this damage. But for someone like pbd, who claims that he's proud of Iran, like, he really. He's proud of the Shaw of Iran, like, before 1979, the Shah Reza Pahlavi was in charge, and he got deposed. So he. He has all this kind of nationalistic sentiment. But how deep is your nationalism if you're fine with a foreign country coming and bombing and you're still going to, like, glaze them and you're going to bring them. So it's. It's really disgraceful.

[Podcast Host]

It reminds me of, obviously, this is way worse with the war, but, like, when Kamala was doing interviews, no one was willing to ask tough questions. It reminds me of that with Netanyahu.

[Daniel Haifa]

Yeah.

[Podcast Host]

You know what I mean?

[Daniel Haifa]

Yeah. It's actually quite revealing. It's just like, it's supposed to be an interview, but it's just like a puff piece. Like, you're just asking the easy softball questions and then not pushing back. So then it's propaganda. Like, it's just pure propaganda. That's one of the things that was good about Trump, actually. Like, in his first term, especially, like, the mainstream media was so oppositional, and they were asking him all kinds of hard questions. He would go into debates, and you knew that the moderators were just going to ask questions to make him look as bad as possible, and somehow he was, like, winning, you know, those debates, and he was able to answer questions, and that's what got him, like, I think, most of his popularity, 100%, his ability to perform in those interviews and face a hostile crowd. But there aren't other politicians who are willing to do that kind of thing.

[Podcast Host]

Yeah, I'd say most probably aren't.

[Daniel Haifa]

Yeah.

[Podcast Host]

They don't want the chance of looking bad.

[Daniel Haifa]

Yeah.

[Podcast Host]

Yeah. It's a shame. I wonder if we'll ever see a real legit interview with Netanyahu. You think we will with Nanya?

[Daniel Haifa]

No way. I mean, he's going on a podcast tour.

[Podcast Host]

Yeah. So I've been offered it.

[Daniel Haifa]

Really?

[Podcast Host]

Yeah. I don't think I'd do it because I don't think I'd be able to.

[Sponsor/Announcer]

Ask what I want, first of all.

[Podcast Host]

Also, I'm not as educated, so I don't want to just look stupid, too. But when I'm on a podcast, I want to be able to ask whatever I want. That's the bottom line. You know what I mean?

[Daniel Haifa]

Yeah. They won't let you ask what you want.

[Podcast Host]

Yeah.

[Daniel Haifa]

They'll give you A script, and then you're just going to be doing propaganda.

[Podcast Host]

Exactly. When the Nelk boys interviewed, they said they got handed a piece of paper with questions like, I would never do that. You know what I mean?

[Sponsor/Announcer]

No matter what cast it was.

[Podcast Host]

Even if you're like a huge celebrity, like, that's just not authentic.

[Daniel Haifa]

Yeah, it's not authentic. You'll lose the trust of your followers. So that's what's happening to pbd. Like, a lot of people who are hardcore fans, and they saying in the comments, they're like, I trusted you. I was ride or die for you. But now I can trust what you're saying because this is just a war criminal, that you're platforming and doing propaganda for him.

[Podcast Host]

And he won't have Fuentes on. That might be the only way to save his. His show at this point, to have him on.

[Daniel Haifa]

Right. Maybe. Yeah. If he has Nick on, that would be interesting. But I think he'll get destroyed in another way. Like, Nick is just. Would just tear him apart.

[Podcast Host]

Yeah. Nick's a phenomenal debater. I saw his debate with Dinesh. I thought he won that debate pretty. You're probably a good judge at debating. Where would you rank Fuentes in terms of debate skills?

[Daniel Haifa]

Yeah, I had, like, a brief interaction with him on Twitter because of that debate, because I was arguing that strategically he didn't do so well.

[Podcast Host]

Oh, really?

[Daniel Haifa]

Yeah, I was critical, but I was giving him constructive criticism.

[Podcast Host]

Okay.

[Daniel Haifa]

Why? Because, you know, I think that he had the correct position. Like, the debate that they had was about the US Support for Israel.

[Podcast Host]

No.

[Daniel Haifa]

And the. I think that specific topic was, you know, is Iran a threat like that that the US should deal with or should help Israel deal with? So I think that he did a good job, and obviously, I agree with his position, but I don't think he brought his strongest arguments. So I think he lets Dinesh kind of control the debate too much.

[Podcast Host]

Interesting.

[Daniel Haifa]

And, like, my criticism wasn't that extensive. It was just that, like, he needed, like, a more developed opening statement.

[Podcast Host]

Okay. Some more technical stuff.

[Daniel Haifa]

Yeah, it's a more technical. So that you can, like, when you go into a debate, like, you want it to be on your terms, you don't want to. Want to have the debate be with you on the back foot. Just be defensive the whole time. Like, you want to be offensive and really put the opponent in the toughest position.

[Podcast Host]

Got it.

[Daniel Haifa]

And if you don't manage that. Right. Right from the beginning, then the. The debate kind of becomes a wash.

[Podcast Host]

Right.

[Daniel Haifa]

Because his. What Dinesh was trying to do was just say that, well, Iran is this crazy mullah country. They just want to kill all Americans. They chant death to America. So obviously it's rational for us to want to as Americans to neutralize that threat. Yeah, that's just logical. It has nothing to do with like we're controlled by Israel or the Israeli lobby. And then Nick kind of, he went off of that premise because the first opening statement was by Dinesh. And then rather than like when you do an opening statement, like it's an opportunity for you to put your position, your main arguments, your best evidence, like in five, 10 minutes. And it should be independent of the other person's opening statement. Just because the other person goes first, your opening statement should not be a reaction, like a response to their opening statement.

[Podcast Host]

Right.

[Daniel Haifa]

That response comes later. The response comes later in the debate. In your opening statement when it's your turn, you have to give your own argument and your own position and keep the ball in your court until then. It's the response period. Then both sides have to respond. So in that response period, my humble suggestion, constructive criticism to Nick would have been to put your own best arguments in place and put all the pressure on Dinesh to have to defend like, why does the United States have this special relationship with Israel when it's literally causing all kinds of problems economically for the US Politically, diplomatically, like this kind. These non stop wars in the Middle east are bleeding America dry. Like it's creating an economic crisis literally like the war on terror since 2001 has cost a very conservative estimate, $8 trillion for, for the United States and all, not to mention other kinds of problems. So why should we, why should Donald Trump support Israel in opening up another war with another Middle Eastern country when there are so many problems at home that need to be addressed? Like this is becomes an existential problem for America. If the U S supports Israel in trying to do regime change in Iran, that's, I think that's going to be the strongest argument that's going to put the pressure on Dinesh d' Souza to defend that special relationship that the US has with Israel with the Israeli lobby. And he's going to be very uncomfortable with that.

[Podcast Host]

Yeah.

[Daniel Haifa]

Because that kind of, that compromises him and his position and his, his relationship with Zionist organizations and, and neocons. So that's what I was hoping to see in that debate. Instead the debate became about like, well are these mullahs in Iran crazy or not? Like, or are they rat have like a, in their pursuit of nuclear weapons? Is that a rational pursuit? Like, that's an. That's an important topic. Like, does Iran have the right to defend itself? Like, does Iran have the right to pursue nuclear weapons? Should America try to prevent Iran from pursuing nuclear weapons? What does that mean in, you know, geopolitical terms and the history and context of the region, etc. That's a very interesting, important discussion to have. And that's what, you know, Nick was very skillfully and knowledgeably presenting in that debate as you watched it and enjoyed it. My only criticism was, like, is that, like, the best opportunity? Like, is that the best use of the opportunity when you're facing, like, a bona fide neocon. One of the neocon figures and who has this history, like, and is morally compromised, like, from Nick's perspective, from, like, an American first perspective, Dinesh is a traitor to America. So it was a very cordial interview, which is fine. Or a debate, rather. And that's fine. You can be cordial, but you should also be able to, like, bring the heavy criticisms and bring the heavy punches to be able to put him on the back foot in that kind of debate. Yeah, I mean, that was. That was my criticism, but overall, I support Nick's position. I think he's doing a good job.

[Podcast Host]

Yeah. Learning lesson. When we see him and Charlie Kirk, I'm sure he'll be even better.

[Daniel Haifa]

That'd be great.

[Podcast Host]

Or him and Candace even. I would. I would love to see that one, too.

[Daniel Haifa]

Yeah. I hope that something like that shapes up.

[Podcast Host]

Yeah, we'll see. You've debated some of the smartest people.

[Sponsor/Announcer]

In the world, some of the top.

[Podcast Host]

Debaters in the world. Which one stands out to you the most? Like, which opponent was the most worthy, I guess.

[Daniel Haifa]

Well, I think the best person or the smartest person I debated there is the white nationalist who's a PhD in biology. He wrote books on evolution and genetics. But his name is J.F. grapey. I don't even know he's Canadian.

[Podcast Host]

J.F. grapey.

[Daniel Haifa]

Yeah. Might be interesting.

[Podcast Host]

What was the debate about?

[Daniel Haifa]

It was about religion versus ethnic identity. So he was arguing that ethnic identity, like, being white, is a better source of your identity as a person than, like, a religious identity, like being a Muslim or a Christian. Wow.

[Podcast Host]

I have not heard that angle.

[Daniel Haifa]

Yeah.

[Podcast Host]

Sounds like some Fuentes right there. Yeah, well, he's actually Christian, so. No, but he does like the white identity stuff too.

[Daniel Haifa]

Yeah. So that's. Yeah, I. I debated Keith woods as well. You know, that's one of Nick's friends as well. Keith woods, other white nationalists I've debated, but I like JF Grapey because he actually. He gave his opening statement, and then I gave my opening statement, and then he said. In his response, he said, well, you win. Like, you had the better argument. Like, he can. He actually conceded the debate. And he said, you're right. Quickly. Yeah. Like, right. I thought he was trolling me. I thought he was joking, but he was the only one who conceded a debate.

[Podcast Host]

Wow.

[Daniel Haifa]

I've seen.

[Podcast Host]

I've never heard of someone conceding a debate, especially on your. At your level. I feel like everyone's so set on their.

[Daniel Haifa]

Yeah, yeah.

[Podcast Host]

You know what I mean?

[Daniel Haifa]

Yeah. So I felt like that was a very nice and honest way. Like, he was very magnanimous about it. So I appreciate that.

[Podcast Host]

That.

[Daniel Haifa]

That's like, a noteworthy thing that stands in my mind.

[Podcast Host]

What about someone that's really challenged your beliefs, where you had to, like, go home afterwards and really look up what they were saying and kind of dig into it?

[Daniel Haifa]

Never really happened. I mean, it might. Everyone might say that. But I actually do think that because I go into debates with a game plan and with an argument that's been considered from all angles. So I won't actually accept a debate where I'm not, like, 1000% sure that I have the correct position. And I do a lot of research in advance and talk to a lot of people, consume a lot of content to do research. And I only, like, accept debates or propose debates with people. Challenge them if I'm, like, very sure that all, you know, the eyes have been dotted and T's have been crossed. So if I were to debate, like, in my personal life, I've debated people on things like, I just thought were right. And I've lost, like, I've lost those debates, but those aren't, like, on a big platform. It's not formal debate. Like, for example, like, just in my personal life, I, like, my parents are from Iran.

[Podcast Host]

Yeah.

[Daniel Haifa]

And they're Shia. Like, it's Shia Muslims. And that's. That's the minority denomination. There's Sunni Muslims. And so I. I became Sunni. And partly part. Partly that was because of getting in conversations, like informal debates with Sunnis and realizing, oh, okay, I really don't know, or I don't understand as much as I did. Like, I thought I was Shia, but some of these things don't make sense. And I became Sunni after doing research. And so I was, you know, convinced of the other side.

[Podcast Host]

Got it.

[Daniel Haifa]

So my personal life. Yeah, that happens all the time. Or Even arguments with my wife.

[Podcast Host]

Classic.

[Daniel Haifa]

Yeah. Or my kids. Now my kids are debating and arguing with.

[Podcast Host]

I love it. It runs in the family.

[Daniel Haifa]

And they watch my content, too, so. They're watching. They. They've memorized all my debates. Wow.

[Sponsor/Announcer]

How old are they?

[Daniel Haifa]

My oldest is 13.

[Sponsor/Announcer]

Well done.

[Daniel Haifa]

11. I have five boys, so.

[Podcast Host]

Dude, well done. Yeah. Critical thinking is. Is lost these days. The fact that they're learning about debates at that age, they're going to be. That's a great skill to have.

[Daniel Haifa]

Yeah.

[Podcast Host]

You know, so well done. Good parenting. Public school or.

[Daniel Haifa]

No, they're homeschooled.

[Podcast Host]

Yeah. That's the way to do it. Now, public school, they wouldn't ever learn about stuff like this, right?

[Daniel Haifa]

Yeah. Yeah, for sure. Yeah. I went through the public school system. I was in a public. A pretty big public school. Like, we had a class of 800 kids in high school in Houston.

[Podcast Host]

That's big.

[Daniel Haifa]

Yeah, it was a big school.

[Podcast Host]

Were you on the debate team?

[Daniel Haifa]

No.

[Podcast Host]

Really?

[Daniel Haifa]

I wasn't in debate at that time.

[Podcast Host]

Oh, wow.

[Daniel Haifa]

I was. What's. I was in the Muslim Students association. And then there was something called academic decathlon. Okay. It's like a nerdy thing. Like, you just study and then you do events.

[Podcast Host]

Okay.

[Daniel Haifa]

Like so. But academic decathlon, I don't know if they still have it, but I didn't do debate. I didn't do Model UN or any. Any of that. But if I had to do it again, I would.

[Podcast Host]

Did you go to university too, after.

[Daniel Haifa]

Yeah, I went to Harvard.

[Podcast Host]

Oh, yeah. Okay. Wow. So no wonder the Trump Harvard thing kind of hits deep for you then. Yeah, that makes sense now.

[Daniel Haifa]

Yeah. Yeah. It's actually. I mean, Harvard has a long history of, you know, bowing the knee to certain interests and certain groups.

[Podcast Host]

Yeah.

[Daniel Haifa]

And we experienced that at Harvard, too. Like, when I was a student undergrad, I was studying physics and philosophy as a secondary. But there was a lot. This was like after 9, 11, it was still in the Bush era.

[Podcast Host]

Yeah.

[Daniel Haifa]

And so there was a lot of anti Muslim sentiment that you don't really see as much of now. You see more of it because ever since October 7th, they've gotten the green light to become more racist against Muslims, like, in media and politics. Like, ramp up the race. Coming back. It's coming back in a big way. But back then, like, it was pretty intense. And there was like, campus groups like Republic Republican conservative groups that were, like, just pure Zionists and they would invite, like, IDF soldiers to come speak on campus. Yeah. Like Israeli officials, like, they're really putting Muslims In a bad position. Like, you had. Yeah. You had a lot of what you consider anti Muslim sentiment that was sanctioned or, like, allowed to happen on the university. Which is ironic because now, like, they talk about, like, if you have a pro Palestine protest that's anti Semitic, like, you're making a hostile environment for Jewish students. But they didn't care about Muslim students back then. Like, they didn't care about, like, making Muslims feel like a fifth column. So there was a. There was even an email that went out from the dean or one of the assistant deans. She emailed the Republican campus group. Like, they put out a magazine, and that magazine was putting out a lot of anti Muslim stuff. And the dean sent them an email saying that, you know, because of your actions, because of putting out this anti Muslim content, you're. You're a. Fine. You're allowed to do it. But just be aware, the Muslims might get violent. The Muslim students might get violent. So then we're as Muslim students, like, you're just calling us, like, violent terrorists. Like, you're saying that the Muslim students are gonna, like, do something violent just because we don't, like. Like this anti Muslim stuff being published. So even, like, that was the depth of the kind of bias against Muslims at that time. That even at the level of the dean of Harvard, like, she was putting out, like, emails, like, because that email got leaked.

[Podcast Host]

Yeah.

[Daniel Haifa]

And it was reported on with campus newspaper and even nationally, I think there was national news about it at that time.

[Podcast Host]

That's nuts.

[Daniel Haifa]

Back in 2006 or 2005.

[Podcast Host]

Yeah. There was definitely a lot of subconscious programming to hate Muslims. Growing up. I saw a viral clip of Damp Zarian talking about all the war movies and how the terrorist organization was always like a Muslim group in the movie, no matter what movie it was. And that's so true. Right. When you look back at these. These war movies.

[Daniel Haifa]

Yeah. It's like it was a deliberate program, actually. Like, the Israeli government was involved in some of these Hollywood movies. Like, you had Jewish producers who was. Who were working with literally, like, the foreign minister of Israel to create the. To produce these types of movies. Have you heard it's like the old movie from the 80s, like Delta Force with Chuck Norris.

[Podcast Host]

Really? Yeah, it was back then in the 80s, yeah.

[Daniel Haifa]

Yeah. Wow. Yeah. I mean, this is something that goes way back to depict Arabs specifically as these irrational, bloodthirsty killers who just want to, like, they, you know, they just have this hatred for anyone who's not a Muslim, and they want to, like, terrorize, kill women and children with no regard for life. That's the image that has been implanted into people's heads because of these movies and media.

[Podcast Host]

Yeah. I mean, when you're a kid, you're very impression. Impressionable. I remember watching these movies and, like, definitely recognizing, like, the patterns, you know?

[Daniel Haifa]

Yeah.

[Podcast Host]

Like, it's. It's very apparent.

[Daniel Haifa]

Yeah. And then now we see, like, what's going on in the Middle east, like, who's really killing women and children? Who's, like, starving people to death. It's. The Arabs are the biggest victims, and they have been the biggest victims since the creation of the state of Israel.

[Podcast Host]

And before that, how do you see the war playing out if America keeps funding? Like, do you. Do you feel like it's going to remain how it is? Do you think it'll get worse?

[Daniel Haifa]

Like, if it keeps going in this direction, it's going to keep getting worse. Like, because I think that Israel just has these bigger goals. Like, they have these bigger goals for Greater Israel. Like, they want to expand their territory as much as they can. Like, biblically, they believe that they've been. They've inherited the land between the Nile and the Euphrates. So that's in Egypt, all the way to Euphrates in Iraq.

[Podcast Host]

Wow.

[Daniel Haifa]

Yeah.

[Podcast Host]

They're gonna keep going.

[Sponsor/Announcer]

Holy crap.

[Daniel Haifa]

I mean, they're explicit about it. Like, Dan Yahoo was just asked a couple of weeks ago, like, do you believe in the Greater Israel Project?

[Podcast Host]

Yeah.

[Daniel Haifa]

He said, yeah, you know, my vision is aligned with that. Like, he's explicitly saying it.

[Podcast Host]

Wow. So it won't stop at Palestine.

[Daniel Haifa]

Yeah. It's just getting started. Like, they want to clear out palace, they want to clear out Gaza, then they want to clear out the West Bank. That's why they're already. They stopped referring to it as the West Bank. They are referring it to as Judea and Samaria.

[Podcast Host]

Yeah.

[Daniel Haifa]

Like, this is. Oh, this is the biblical term for our. For our homeland. So they're already erasing the identity. Like, the West Bank Palestinians have been completely split up because the expanding settlements within Israel, which are illegal according to international law. So that's the phase two is taking out the west bank, and they're occupying southern Lebanon, they're occupying southern Syria. They want to expand east toward through Jordan and the Sinai in Egypt as well. And these are things that are imminently going to happen, and there's no pushback. Like, what's going to stop Israel from expanding as much as they want. The US Is not interested in, like, putting a stop to it. Like, if they were interested, they would prevent the settlements from expanding in the west bank or they would prevent, like the, the occupation of Gaza. Like Gaza. That's gonna. Nanyahu has already announced, and the Knesset, their legislature has announced that we. They've approved occupation of Gaza. They're just going to take it over. So America, according to American policy, that shouldn't happen. The official American policy is that America does not support these expansions. But it's going to happen anyway. It's going to happen and Trump is going to allow it to happen. The Congress is going to allow it to happen. So then what? Who, if they want to do more than that, if they want to expand more than that, who's going really stop them?

[Podcast Host]

I'd be very curious what the average Israeli citizen thinks of, of all this. Do you think they support Netanyahu?

[Daniel Haifa]

They support him in, in the sense that they like, you know, having the Palestinians eliminated like this. The surveys show that the vast majority of Israelis, actually Jews internationally, they support the war, they support what Israel is doing, they support the tactics.

[Podcast Host]

Wow.

[Daniel Haifa]

So they support it on that basis. The pro, like, there are protests though, against Netanyahu and people say, oh, see, these are prot. Who are appalled by the war crimes and the atrocities. That's not the case. The protesters in Israel are just annoyed at the fact that the economic situation in the country is so bad.

[Podcast Host]

Right.

[Daniel Haifa]

So there, there's been, because of the war, there's been a naval blockade, for example, because of the Houthis in Yemen blocking the Red Sea. So their southernmost port in Aqaba in the south has been all but bankrupted, shut down. So their economy is going through heavy losses, unemployment. A lot of people have to leave their jobs because they're being called up as reserves to fight in the war, joining the idf. So their economy is in a downturn and that's what the Israelis are upset with Netanyahu about.

[Podcast Host]

Got it. So it's not actually about the war.

[Daniel Haifa]

It's not about the war itself because Israel has always been engaged in these types of war and their national identity is like, based on wars of conquest.

[Podcast Host]

Right?

[Daniel Haifa]

Like, they're very proud of, like 1948. They're very proud of, you know, these 1967 war, etc.

[Podcast Host]

Damn, what a shame. Well, Daniel, thanks for speaking the truth, man. It's very brave of you to do this, first of all.

[Sponsor/Announcer]

I don't know if a lot of.

[Podcast Host]

People realize that, but it's not easy. So thank you. And where can people find you and support you, man?

[Daniel Haifa]

You can find me on my channel, Muslim skeptic on YouTube. I'm also on Twitter. You can just search my or X, you can search my last name and I have an account there, so. And I have the website muslimskeptic.com cool.

[Podcast Host]

Check them out, guys. Hopefully next time you see him, it'll be on a debate on my show. We had two people back out today, so I'll try to set one up for next time.

[Daniel Haifa]

Yeah, that'd be great. We can have a debate, very respectful and you can moderate it. I don't think we. There's a topic people are interested in. They can leave it in the comments.

[Podcast Host]

Yeah, leave it in the comments, guys, if you want to see that. See you next time.

[Sponsor/Announcer]

Peace. I hope you guys are enjoying the show. Please don't forget to like and subscribe.

[Podcast Host]

It helps the show a lot with the algorithm. Thank you.