David Howell: How a 12-Year-Old Beat Me | DSH #1604

Summary

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Digital Social Hour – Episode Overview

Episode: DSH #1604 – David Howell: How a 12-Year-Old Beat Me
Host: Sean Kelly
Guest: David Howell (Chess Grandmaster, broadcaster, commentator)
Date: November 2, 2025

Main Theme:
This episode delves into the unique world of competitive chess, as Grandmaster David Howell joins Sean Kelly for an open conversation. The pair cover topics such as the evolving chess landscape, youth dominance, the impact of technology, personal struggles at the top, mainstream popularity, cheating scandals, and the interplay between new media and classic chess culture.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

The Rise of Youth in Chess

• Early Prodigies & Youth Dominance:

  • Howell recounts being beaten by a 12-year-old Grandmaster, highlighting the trend of younger players achieving high titles earlier than ever ([00:00–01:09]).
  • "These days that's considered old, but at the time it was the youngest in the UK. And yeah, I don't know what I did with my childhood, to be fair." – David Howell [01:09]

• Changing Entry Age:

  • Players are reaching Grandmaster status much younger, with current champions often in their teens ([01:19–01:39]).

Training: Then vs. Now

• Old-School Learning vs Engines:

  • Howell describes growing up studying chess through books and club analysis before the AI/software revolution ([00:23–00:39], [02:31–02:36]).
  • “These days, I have it as like a badge of honor. I say to these kids, you know, you don't understand that deeply. You're just memorizing what the computer says. And I think to some extent that's true.” – David Howell [02:36]

• Modern Technology & Accessibility:

  • Everyone has access to high-quality resources (YouTube, online databases), raising the level of global competition ([04:26]).

The Pressure, Peak, and Aging in Chess

• Intensity and Sacrifice:

  • Howell shares how he spent 8 hours/day on chess as a teen, with passion overtaking all other interests ([01:20], [01:39–01:56]).
  • He didn't realize his level until beating a Grandmaster at 8, resulting in press attention and the pressure to succeed ([02:00–02:31]).

• Peak Performance & Aging:

  • Describes his peak as aligning with his physical prime mid-20s, but notes that consistency fades with age, even as understanding deepens ([03:35–04:16]).
  • "The consistency isn't there. Like, I'll play a great game and then throw it away in one move just because I'm older and I lose, lose concentration." – David Howell [04:05]

Making Chess Mainstream

• Cultural Shifts:

  • Chess is closer to mainstream, thanks to streaming, Netflix's "Queen's Gambit," and celebrity events, but still has a way to go ([04:59–05:40], [06:43–07:10]).
  • "My new goal was to make chess more mainstream... to make it more popular." – David Howell [04:59]

• Parallel to Esports & Gaming:

  • Stigma around chess and nerd culture is diminishing as chess enters esports competitions ([07:03–07:03]).

Economics of Chess

• Financial Struggles:

  • Early career hardship: Howell’s father worked long hours so he could travel to tournaments; prize money was scarce, and even Grandmasters struggled financially ([10:25–11:55]).
  • "Even as a grandmaster, even before I started commentating, like the pandemic hit, I was struggling to make a living." – David Howell [11:01]

• The Side Hustle Reality:

  • Many GMs teach, write, or do media on the side; top-level players now have better incomes, but the middle still faces instability ([12:11–13:31]).

Life after Elite Competition

• Content Creation & Commentary:
  • Howell discusses shifting focus to commentary, finding stability and excitement missing from tournament play ([13:31–14:02]).
  • Chess commentary is evolving—now focused on storylines and rivalries, rather than only technical moves ([14:02–14:57]).
  • “The thing is to stay quite general, keep it about the storyline... building the rivalries.” – David Howell [14:02]

Cheating Scandals and Technology

• Personal Experience as a Victim:

  • Howell details being cheated at the 2010 Olympiad via an elaborate signaling system; trauma from this incident made him paranoid for years ([22:44–23:48]).
  • “I lost a really painful game... it turns out my opponent had been cheating. They had this convoluted system... after that moment, I've been super paranoid.” – David Howell [22:44]

• Modern Cheating:

  • Cheating primarily happens online now; Chess.com banned 100,000+ accounts in one month ([24:32–24:38]).
  • The real challenge is catching clever, experienced cheaters who only use computers occasionally at critical moments ([26:00–26:27]).
  • "All like Magnus Carlsen needs is a tap on his shoulder being like, this is the critical moment in the game. Focus now. Like, that's it." – David Howell [25:30]

The Next Generation & The Rise of India

• New Chess Superpowers:
  • Acknowledgment of India’s rise due to infrastructure, financial backing, and a thriving chess youth culture ([29:26–29:53], [31:02]).
  • “India is, I think, the dominant force... now there is so much sponsorship in India.” – David Howell [29:33]

Life Lessons, Motivation, and Mental Health

• Handling Pressure:

  • Howell battles nerves in big games, admits to being affected by emotions, and supports sports psychology ([27:23–28:27]).
  • “I've always been known as a bit of an emotional guy, like a bit of a choker. Like big moments. I crack.” – David Howell [27:23]

• Motivation at the Top:

  • Even world #1’s find ways to stay motivated with mini-goals, not just by upholding titles ([17:45–18:13]).

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

Youth Upsets and Prestige

• “I lost to a 12 year old a few years ago. He's now one of the best players in the world. But yeah, he was a Grandmaster already at 12, so that’s insane.” – David Howell [00:00–00:56]

A Life in Chess

• "Eight hours is the average for a top, top player." – David Howell [01:20]

• “I've been addicted to winning ever since that moment.” – David Howell [02:23]

On Modern Learning

• “You don't understand that deeply. You're just memorizing what the computer says.” – David Howell [02:36]

Aging in the Game

• "We think we still, still have it, we think we can do it, but the consistency, that’s the first thing that disappears." – David Howell [04:16]

About Making Chess Popular

• “My new goal was to make chess more mainstream, to make it more popular... I'm hoping it's not just this random boom and things disappear.” – David Howell [05:03]

On Cheating Trauma

• “I just got crushed. I never get crushed like that, even against the top players... turned out my opponent had been cheating... ever since that moment, I've been super paranoid.” – David Howell [22:44]

• "Chess.com... said a hundred thousand accounts on their platform were closed in the last month alone." – David Howell [24:32]

On Queen’s Gambit

• "It's just nice to see that the chessboard was set up right in every scene. That's rare." – David Howell [37:43]

Motivation at the Top

• "Number one in the world, Magnus Carlsen. Number two in the world, drunk Magnus." – David Howell (on Magnus' infamous streams) [19:21]

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Timestamps for Major Segments

• [00:00–01:09] – Youth prodigies and the changing age of Grandmasters
• [01:20–02:31] – Training regimens and early achievements
• [03:35–04:16] – Aging, peak performance, and the frustration of declining consistency
• [04:59–05:40] – Mainstreaming chess; cultural context
• [10:25–11:55] – Economic challenges for chess professionals
• [13:31–14:57] – Shift to commentary and the art of engaging chess audiences
• [22:44–24:38] – On-the-board cheating: The 2010 Olympiad incident
• [24:32–26:27] – Cheating in the online era; Chess.com crackdown
• [27:23–28:27] – Stress, emotion, and sports psychology in chess
• [29:26–31:02] – India’s emergence as a chess powerhouse
• [37:43–39:03] – Thoughts on Queen’s Gambit and TV’s impact on chess
• [41:10–41:58] – The need for a true, regular chess “tour”
• [42:19–42:49] – Excitement about Vegas freestyle chess and live audience experience

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Additional Highlights

Poker, Gambling, and Addictive Personalities

• Howell avoids poker to curb his "addictive personality" but remarks on the luck/skill contrast with chess [07:17].

Mainstream Media & Events

• Commentary on the importance of content, BBC quiz/chess show ("Chess Masters"), and hopes for recommission [39:09].

Trash Talking and the Chess Table

• Brief, humorous conversation on whether trash talk should be normalized in chess for entertainment [31:22].

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Tone and Style

The conversation is informal, accessible, and peppered with humor. Howell is candid about his insecurities, personal struggles, and the quirks of the chess subculture. The episode frequently contrasts past and present, revealing how modern technology, media, and globalization are redefining chess for both professionals and fans.

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For Listeners Who Missed the Episode

This is a revealing, personal, and playful conversation about chess—exploring human stories behind the game, the shifting competitive landscape, and the ongoing quest to make chess engaging for the wider world. David Howell’s authenticity—in sharing struggle, humor, and hope—makes the episode a must-listen for chess players, fans, and anyone curious about the pressures of top-tier competition.

Transcript

[David Howell]

I lost to a 12 year old a few years ago. He's now one of the best players in the world. But yeah, he was a Grandmaster already at 12.

[Podcast Host]

So you were 18 when you became 1?

[David Howell]

16.

[Podcast Host]

16. So you knew at a very young age you wanted to become a Grandmaster?

[David Howell]

Yeah, I just didn't have any other options. I figured I wasn't good at many other things. Really pretty special achievement. And that's when kind of the pressure kicked in and the realization kicked in that this was actually something that I could pursue. I've been addicted to winning ever since. I love it, that moment.

[Podcast Host]

And at 8, that was before all the AI and the solvers and everything. So you had to learn from the books, right?

[David Howell]

Yeah, old school, like books. I think going to clubs and actually analyzing with the older players, the more experienced players taught me a lot.

[Podcast Host]

Okay, guys, David Howell, first grand master on the show, Chess Grandmaster. Thanks for coming on, man.

[David Howell]

It's a pleasure to be here.

[Podcast Host]

There's not many of you guys, right?

[David Howell]

There's a few, there's ever more and more. Most of them are kids these days, but yeah, it's nice to be part of a pretty elite club.

[Podcast Host]

Yeah, they're getting younger and younger.

[David Howell]

They are. Like I lost to a 12 year old a few years ago, he's now one of the best players in the world. But yeah, he was a Grandmaster already at 12, so that's insane. It's a crazy world.

[Podcast Host]

You were 18 when you became 1?

[David Howell]

16.

[Podcast Host]

16.

[David Howell]

I mean these days that's considered old, but at the time it was the youngest in the uk. And yeah, I don't know what I did with my childhood, to be fair.

[Podcast Host]

How many hours a day were you playing at 16?

[David Howell]

I would play chess probably 8 hours a day or at least study, think about chess, read books. Yeah, it was kind of my life. These days I'm a bit more chilled about it. I don't keep up to date with modern trends as much, but yeah, I think eight hours is the average for a top, top player.

[Podcast Host]

So you knew at a very young age you wanted to become a Grandmaster?

[David Howell]

Yeah, I just didn't have any other options. I figured I wasn't good at too many other things really. I had this dream of being like a soccer manager, football manager. But yeah, in the end, chess, it was my one true love. Like I. I've been playing since I was 5, so I kind of fell into it and never left. Wow.

[Podcast Host]

Were you really good right at the start or did you get better over time?

[David Howell]

Yeah, I mean, I Never really. It never clocked with me that I was that good until, I mean, I was eight. And then I beat a Grandmaster for the first time. And at 8. At 8, yeah. And it was. I mean, I was on the front of the papers and I was like, mom, dad, what does this mean? Like, why am I seeing my own face? And they're like, you know, it's a pretty special achievement. Wow. And that's when kind of the pressure kicked in and the realization kicked in that this was actually something that I could. Could pursue. I've been addicted to winning ever since that moment.

[Podcast Host]

And I ate. That was before all the AI and the solvers and everything. So you had to learn from the books, right?

[David Howell]

Yeah, old school, like books. I think going to clubs and actually analyzing with the older players, the more experienced players taught me a lot. These days, I have it as like a badge of honor. I say to these kids, you know, you don't understand that deeply. You're just memorizing what the computer says. And I think to some extent that's true. But it's no coincidence that the likes of Magnus Carlsen, the top player in the world now, he was kind of. He's the same age as me, and he had the old school way of learning, but he complemented it with technology when it kicked in a bit later.

[Podcast Host]

Yeah. And now age is a big factor in chess, right?

[David Howell]

Yeah, I'm at that stage. I'm 34, and I kind of joke that I'm semi retired because it's a bit like most sports these days. It's like life kicks in.

[Podcast Host]

Right.

[David Howell]

There's so much distraction, it's hard to dedicate. So much energy, like brain power. When you're young, you have, like, not that much going on, I'm gonna say. So, yeah, the youngsters, they're coming up the world champion. He's 19 years old these days. It's. Yeah, we're all granddads.

[Podcast Host]

What age would you say was your peak?

[David Howell]

Had a. I think it probably would have matched my physical peak. So, like, maybe in the mid-20s, like, I would play these, like, long tournaments, two weeks long, seven hours a day. And you need a lot of stamina. You need kind of that energy. And I think that also matched my peak rating, my peak ranking. So, yeah, around 24, 25. I think I understand chess better now, but I just can't. I don't know, I just can't show it on the board anymore.

[Podcast Host]

That must be frustrating, right?

[David Howell]

Yeah. The consistency isn't there. Like, oh, I'll play a great game and then throw it away in one move just because I'm older and I lose, lose concentration.

[Podcast Host]

Wow, that must be frustrating because you know you're better.

[David Howell]

Yeah, I, I tell myself that at least it's like a coping mechanism. But I think all older chess players, we think we still, still have it, we think we can do it, but the consistency, that's the first thing that disappears.

[Podcast Host]

Right. Also, the competition's gotten a lot better.

[David Howell]

That too. Yeah. It's like, I think it's the same in all sports. So all games, like information traveled so much quicker and everything's shared nowadays. So yeah, it's not just the fact that kind of the top guys are much stronger than they've ever been, but it's also kind of the tail as well. Like everyone has access to information and everyone has lessons Nowadays there's free YouTube videos, you can learn a bunch. So, yeah, definitely tougher.

[Podcast Host]

Would you consider chess mainstream at this point?

[David Howell]

I'd like to say yes, but I don't think we're there yet. It's kind of been my dream. Like I realized in my late 20s I was never going to be world champion. And I think because chess players were very goal, like we're kind of fixated on results. So my new goal was to make chess more mainstream, to make it more popular. There's a lot of people with a kind of like minded now and I think we're trying our best. Like there are Netflix documentaries coming, there's movies coming. Like stuff is happening. But I'm just hoping it's not kind of a temporary thing. I'm hoping it's not just this random boom and things disappear, but mainstream. That's the goal long term.

[Podcast Host]

You have the BBC show, you're doing freestyle chess. There's a lot of events bringing all the normal people into chess. Which is cool, right?

[David Howell]

Yeah, like, I mean, for me it happened kind of accidentally. I was well during lockdown, during the pandemic. I was just sitting on my bum in England and not doing too much and suddenly I got a call to go to Norway and kind of film this chess show in a TV studio. And in Norway, chess is massive. It's like one of the top sports. And yeah, I think just the realization that we could take it to the masses, that people would approach me in the street, that never happened in England where I grew up. So yeah, suddenly it was like, okay, we're growing the game, we're bringing new audiences in, new eyeballs. And I think that was the one thing I, when I was growing up, I felt lacked in, in the uk, it was like the recognition, the understanding that chess is actually a cool game, it's not just a hobby. And, and yeah, these days that's, that's what drives me just to keep. Yeah. Bringing the game, pumping it up and showing the world.

[Podcast Host]

Yeah. It's cool to see where it's gone because it's similar to gaming where like used to get made fun of for being a gamer nerd.

[David Howell]

You did too.

[Podcast Host]

Yeah, I wasn't like that good at it, but like I saw people get bullied for being gaming nerds and now it's like people do it for a living.

[David Howell]

Yeah, exactly. And it's pretty decent. Living at the top, at the top levels, it's worth it and I think it's more accepted these days. Like chess gaming.

[Podcast Host]

Yep.

[David Howell]

I'm going to the esports World cup soon. It's like chess is part of that. It's super cool.

[Podcast Host]

Nice.

[David Howell]

So, yeah, I'm hoping the stigma, we're slowly shaking it off.

[Podcast Host]

Absolutely. Same with poker. I know a lot of chess players play poker now too. Yeah, a lot of similarities. Right. Have you gotten into poker?

[David Howell]

I, I try not to gamble. I've got such an addictive personality. It's like anything I do, I have to try my best. I have to keep going until I feel like I've achieved a good level. And I lost a lot of money to some friends when I was playing poker as a teenager and I've gone cold turkey ever since. How about yourself? You play?

[Podcast Host]

I don't, but I, I respect a lot of those guys. Because it's not easy.

[David Howell]

Yeah. It's like dog eat dog and.

[Podcast Host]

Because you could still play perfectly and lose money.

[David Howell]

Exactly.

[Podcast Host]

There's a luck factor. With chess, it's mostly skill. Right. 99. It's a. Yeah.

[David Howell]

I mean, your opponent might still play super well, but ultimately if you play a perfect game, they play a perfect game, it's a draw. But poker, it's.

[Podcast Host]

Yeah, exactly. You could lose to someone that's never played before.

[David Howell]

Yeah, trust me, I have.

[Podcast Host]

So right now, becoming a gm, like it's, it's, it's way. Was it. Would you say it's way harder than when you did it?

[David Howell]

Oh, it's. Yeah, it's a good question. Like, firstly, like, the competition is harder now. Like it's tougher now. There's. Yeah. You have so many more rivals. But back when I did it, like, it was harder to travel to tournaments. There were fewer tournaments, fewer opportunities. So.

[Podcast Host]

Yeah.

[David Howell]

I mean, I'd like to think it was tougher back in the day, but maybe that's just because I did it and I want to, like, hype up my achievement more. But, yeah, there are more grandmasters than ever now. I think there's like 1,700 kind of in history. Wow. So it's all roughly that. That number. So it's still pretty, like, exclusive, the club. And just the fact that 12 year olds are doing it doesn't mean it's like, it's the norm. So. Yeah, still pretty tough.

[Podcast Host]

Yeah.

[David Howell]

These days.

[Podcast Host]

And back then there was no online, right? So you had to play all in person.

[David Howell]

Yeah, like online kind of kicked in when I was a teenager. And I mean, talking of addiction, like, I was playing like 12 hours a day. I was like, waiting for my parents to go to sleep and I'd be like, playing under the covers.

[Podcast Host]

That's funny. I used to do that with Pokemon on the Game Boy and ds. Yeah.

[David Howell]

Yeah, I missed the, like, Pokemon. That was my first true love, I think.

[Podcast Host]

Yeah. Fire Red was my first one.

[David Howell]

Okay. Fire Red. I was Pokemon Red.

[Podcast Host]

Oh, the old school game. The battery.

[David Howell]

The battery one. Pokemon Yellow. That was my favorite.

[Podcast Host]

That was a good one. The Zapados, or was that the Pikachu?

[David Howell]

It was Pikachu.

[Podcast Host]

Pikachu, yeah. Yeah.

[David Howell]

And you could get like, Squirtle, Charmander and Bulbasaur all together. Yeah, that was the.

[Podcast Host]

And now look at the guys making a living off Pokemon cards.

[David Howell]

I know, man. I had a shiny Charizard when I was a kid.

[Podcast Host]

First edition.

[David Howell]

First edition. And I, in school, I got persuaded to trade it for four cards. And my friend was like, four for one. Come on, you have to make this. It's the deal of the century. And now I want to cry every time I look and see how much it's worth.

[Podcast Host]

Does he still have it?

[David Howell]

I don't talk to him anymore. That or that rascal, man.

[Podcast Host]

There's probably a good chance he threw it out or something. Honestly.

[David Howell]

Yeah, he sold it and he's probably bought a house off it. I don't know.

[Podcast Host]

What do they wear now?

[David Howell]

It's in the hundreds of thousands.

[Podcast Host]

Holy crap. That's for the raw or for the graded?

[David Howell]

I'm not sure.

[Podcast Host]

Yeah, because probably PSA 10. But either way, either way.

[David Howell]

That's why I had to play chess for a living. Make up the money that I lost on the playground when I was a kid.

[Podcast Host]

Was the money good at first? Because I know later, like now it's.

[David Howell]

Really good, but yeah, I mean, when I was coming through the ranks, it was, it was tough. Like my family, they're not so. Weren't so well off and like my dad had to work extra shifts just to fund the travel for tournaments. Like he was working like 18 hour shifts as a doctor, like constantly. And the prize money wasn't great. I think, like, it's a bit like some sports, like tennis, for example. If you're at the very top, it's very good, but in the middle of the pack, it's still. You feel like you're in limbo. Like when I was even as a grandmaster, even before I started commentating, like the pandemic hit, I was struggling to make a living.

[Podcast Host]

Dang. As a grandmaster?

[David Howell]

As a grandmaster, yeah. I mean most grandmasters, they make a living through teaching or some now do content creation. Because playing tournaments, like, there's no guarantees. You often have to win just to pay rent, like, and it's a lot of pressure. Like, I think mental health is a big thing in chess. Like, there's been a lot of kind of elite players who've struggled because just that pressure day in, day out of needing to win and the pain when you lose and you're like, wait, I can't make ends meet, I don't have another tournament for three months. Yeah, it's, it's, it's been tough, but it's nice to see it's getting better.

[Podcast Host]

Yeah. Thanks for being so open about that. I had no idea. But that makes a lot of sense because if the money's not there and you're dedicating decades eight hours a day. Yeah, yeah. That could get stressful.

[David Howell]

Yeah. I mean, I would regularly play tournaments and it's like national championships and it's kind of. It'll be a 10 day tournament. First prize would be a couple of thousand dollars.

[Podcast Host]

That's it.

[David Howell]

Yeah. And you pay your own accommodation. So like if you win, you might break even, you might make a bit of a profit.

[Podcast Host]

Yeah, because the hotel's like 200 a night, so.

[David Howell]

Exactly.

[Podcast Host]

You're not even making money at that point. Plus the travel.

[David Howell]

Exactly. So, yeah, maybe travel was slightly cheaper back in the day, but then it's still like you're fighting against like your fellow professionals just to, just to kind of stay afloat.

[Podcast Host]

So chess has really come a long way then.

[David Howell]

Yeah, it's, it's nice to see. Like on the one hand I'm a bit gutted. I'm like, ah, my peak, you know, the money wasn't so great when I was you know, that. Good. But it's nice to see the younger generation coming through now and, like, the likes of Magnus Carlsen, Hikaru Nakamura, they're kind of leading the way, fighting for their fellow pros. And, yeah, it's very decent these days if you're at the top.

[Podcast Host]

Right.

[David Howell]

But still there is this kind of. There's this level where it's kind of. You don't know whether you can fully make a living off playing. And I think that's the toughest part.

[Podcast Host]

Were you tutoring on the side to kind of get by?

[David Howell]

Yeah, like, I was studying at university and I was kind of, yeah, moonlighting, just doing a bit of teaching on the side and writing for newspapers, magazines about chess just to make ends meet. Wow. Like, I'm glad I did it, but. Yeah, it's sad that it's like in. In any profession that you have kind of at the top, you still have to kind of rely on the side hustles.

[Podcast Host]

You see a lot of sports like that, like, even basketball, the. The first guys didn't make that much. They were working nine to fives on the side, and now they're all making crazy money.

[David Howell]

Yeah. Like, yeah, I pity those pros, like, the best in the world at the time. And now, like, they see. They see the top guys now. It's just a different, different universe. Right.

[Podcast Host]

Well, at least now you can make money through the content, right?

[David Howell]

True, true. I mean, that's what I do these days. Mainly I commentate on chess events and I think I enjoy that more because, yeah, it's a bit more stable and you're kind of master of your own destiny. Unlike in a tournament where you might lose the last game and end up walking away with nothing. So I think content in all fields, it's, as you probably know, it's a nice kind of. It's a steady one. If you still have that work ethic and you still have that consistency, what's.

[Podcast Host]

The secret to getting people hyped up with chess commentary?

[David Howell]

Good question. I think when I was young and green, I was like, I was just talking about chess. I was talking about the pieces going super deep into the weeds. And then I realized maybe 1% of the audience understands that. So I think the thing is to stay quite general, keep it about the storyline. So it's not necessarily about, oh, white could play this move and win 10 moves down the line after this concrete variation. It's. It's more about, like, okay, this is Magnus Carlsen. He's playing on the attack. He's being very aggressive against Hikaru Nakamura. Like here. He only has one move though, to survive, he has to find it. It's kind of building the storyline, building the rivalries and I'm hoping at least that's the, that's the kind of, that's the recipe. But yeah, we're still kind of experimenting. It's still very new, like chess commentary, chess content creation. It's still kind of in its early days, so we're all learning a lot every day.

[Podcast Host]

I love it. Where do you see the modes taking, like which modes do you see taking off in the future? Like blitz classical, like do you see any particular trends?

[David Howell]

Yeah, I mean just like life chess is getting faster. I'm a bit of a classicist at heart. I'm a bit old fashioned, bit of a romantic. I remember the days of the seven hour matches. I was famous for them back in the day. And just the feeling of kind of tiring your opponent out, like doing it the hard way, putting in some graft. And also the levels much higher. Like with more time on the clock in chess you make fewer mistakes, you get time to dig deep and see all the possible futures and analyze a bit deeper. But I don't know, the fans, they want to see the quick games. So I think rapid chess right now is maybe the most popular. Magnus Carlsen, world number one, he's pushing freestyle chess where it's kind of the pieces are shuffled on the first rank and that's very interesting, but maybe harder to get into for the kind of. For the beginners. It's like you have to unlearn a lot of the things you learned about traditional chess. But yeah, I think rapid chess, so that's like 10, 15 minutes each on the clock plus a few seconds after every move. I think that's kind of the sweet spot. You get enough time but you never get bored.

[Podcast Host]

Yeah. You're seeing that with content too. You're seeing people want to see the shorts now, not the full videos anymore.

[David Howell]

Yeah. Like was that weird for you? Like kind of.

[Podcast Host]

I have ADHD, so I've always like, I watch videos at 2x speed. One of those freaks. Yeah. How do you do it? Yeah, I don't know, I just, I.

[David Howell]

Tried it so fast.

[Podcast Host]

Really? Yeah. So if it's too slow for me, I just get bored, like, you know what I mean?

[David Howell]

Yeah.

[Podcast Host]

So you watch at 1x?

[David Howell]

I do, yeah. Wow. Yeah. Is that a weird thing?

[Podcast Host]

Yeah, that's not normal for kids my age at least.

[David Howell]

Okay.

[Podcast Host]

Most people do like 1.25 1.5. But I trained myself to get up to 2.

[David Howell]

That's impressive. Yeah.

[Podcast Host]

I got one friend that does four.

[David Howell]

Acts for audiobooks and he still likes.

[Podcast Host]

Still retains it. Yeah.

[David Howell]

Wow. That's crazy.

[Podcast Host]

Crazy, right?

[David Howell]

I'll blame my age. Yeah. Like, back in the day, I used to play one minute chess, like, religiously. Just like bang, bang, bang, hundreds of games a day. But like, yeah, I think age catches up and slowing down is a nice luxury.

[Podcast Host]

Yeah. What was the highest rated in the world? You were at your peak.

[David Howell]

So my. My ELO rating. So that's like the World Chess Federation's rating was like 2712. So I was like, number 30, 30 something in the world. 35, 36. But I don't know, I still feel like I have unfinished business. Now I'm like number 50 or 60.

[Podcast Host]

That's still really good, though.

[David Howell]

Thanks. But I don't play so much and, like, I get triggered sometimes. My friends tease me. They're like, you could have been better. You should have been better. Like, you just. You were too lazy back in the day. And so, yeah, I think it's never enough. Like, unless you're number one in the world, that's never enough. Right.

[Podcast Host]

Do you think Magnus still feels like he has more to give to the game?

[David Howell]

I hope so. Like, I hope he's motivated. Like, he's. He's one of my good friends and, like, he sets himself these micro, like, targets these days and mini goals. So it's not about like staying number one anymore, because he's done it for 15 years. It's about like, can he win this tournament with a perfect score? Can he beat this rival 10 times in a row? Like, it's just keeping yourself motivated, like, in any field. Yeah, it's the key.

[Podcast Host]

I saw someone ask you who the greatest of all time is, and you said Magnus and Kasparov tied. Is there anything Magnus can do to surpass him in your eyes?

[David Howell]

If Magnus had held onto the world championship title a bit longer, like, he walked away a couple of years ago now, but if he held onto that, I would have said, yeah, it's Magnus. I think if he defended his title one or two more times, no question he's the number one. It's different back in the day, like, there weren't so many speed chess tournaments. So Kasparov, who's a legend, he didn't need to show his dominance across all these different formats. He was like the king of classical chess, king of long chess. He was ahead of the game. He was super in tune With AI and technology. When that kicked in. So he was kind of. He had this edge. But, yeah, Magnus is close. I think it's just because I grew up with Kasparov on my wall, my bio. I'm biased. Yeah. But I think for the kids these days, Magnus, like, they call him the goat, and it's hard to argue.

[Podcast Host]

Yeah. Have you beaten a drunk Magnus before in Chas?

[David Howell]

I have, but he's had to be quite drunk. I've been maybe less drunk this time.

[Podcast Host]

Those are my favorite streams.

[David Howell]

Yeah, his drunk streams. Yeah.

[Podcast Host]

You still win somehow.

[David Howell]

I know. I think number one in the world, Magnus Carlsen. Number two in the world, drunk Magnus. That's how it's been for a while now. But he doesn't drink these days. He's more sensible. He realizes he needs every kind of edge he can get against the young guys.

[Podcast Host]

Every brain cell. Yeah.

[David Howell]

I mean, there's fewer and fewer at this age.

[Podcast Host]

When I was a track runner, they had a beer mile. Have you heard of that?

[David Howell]

I've heard of it.

[Podcast Host]

So every lap, you drink a can of beer, and then. So you drink four beers, basically, and.

[David Howell]

Then run a mile and you're still. Are you staggering by the end or.

[Podcast Host]

Yeah, you're kind of wobbly. Depends how lightweight you are, I guess. But four beers in, in five, seven minutes is pretty.

[David Howell]

That's a lot.

[Podcast Host]

Pretty fast, you know?

[David Howell]

Yeah. Yeah. And I guess you can't, like, have a full stomach beforehand if you're running, like, just to absorb the alcohol.

[Podcast Host]

Yeah. You got to be empty.

[David Howell]

Yeah. Okay. I'm. Yeah, I'm up for trying, like, drinking chess challenges sometime, but.

[Podcast Host]

Would you do a chess boxing ever?

[David Howell]

I would have to train for a while, and I would need someone to fight against that would, like, inspire me to get in shape.

[Podcast Host]

Okay. Because you got the reach. You're quite tall.

[David Howell]

Not as tall as you, not as.

[Podcast Host]

Tall as me, but yeah. You know.

[David Howell]

Yeah.

[Podcast Host]

For a chess player, I feel like you're taller than average. Right?

[David Howell]

Yeah. I mean, I'm six two, so. Well, at least that's why I tell people. Six, one and a half.

[Podcast Host]

You always round up as a guy.

[David Howell]

Exactly. But, yeah, I'd be open to it. But, like, my. My partner, she's like, no, your brain is your most priced commodity.

[Podcast Host]

Right.

[David Howell]

Don't risk it.

[Podcast Host]

But that's why I haven't done any boxing either.

[David Howell]

Oh, really?

[Podcast Host]

Because I'm a podcaster. I need my. My brain to talk to people.

[David Howell]

It's great exercise, though. It's great fitness.

[Podcast Host]

It is. It's Good cardio.

[David Howell]

Yeah.

[Podcast Host]

I just think there's other cardio that you could do.

[David Howell]

You know that's true.

[Podcast Host]

But money talks.

[David Howell]

Okay. So any listeners out there, you're open.

[Podcast Host]

My price would be a million to Chessbox. Yeah, I'm not there yet. I would need build the podcast some more, but.

[David Howell]

Okay.

[Podcast Host]

I don't think it's worth like 100,000 for me right now.

[David Howell]

Makes sense, you know. Yeah.

[Podcast Host]

What's your price?

[David Howell]

Probably lower than a million.

[Podcast Host]

But really you're a gm. I. I don't know what these trust.

[David Howell]

I could go to make go down in history.

[Podcast Host]

I could probably look really stupid by even saying a million. I don't know what they're making But.

[David Howell]

I mean 1 million? I would say yes, like no doubt. But below that, it's. It's tough.

[Podcast Host]

It's tough, right?

[David Howell]

Yeah, it's hard to like.

[Podcast Host]

Yeah, because if you get a concussion, I mean, a lot of people theorize you're never the same after that. Shout out to today's sponsor, Quince. As the weather cools, I'm swapping in the pieces that actually gets the job done. That are warm, durable, and built to last. Quince delivers every time with wardrobe staples that'll carry you through the season. They have fall staples that you'll actually want to wear, like the 100 Mongolian cashmere for just $60. They also got classic fit denim and real leather and wool outerwear that looks sharp and holds up. By partnering directly with ethical factories and top artisans, QU cuts out the middleman to deliver premium quality at half the cost of similar brands. They've really become a go to across the board. You guys know how I love linen and how I've talked about it on previous episodes. I picked up some linen pants and they feel incredible. The quality is definitely noticeable compared to other brands. Layer up this fall with pieces that feel as good as they look. Go to quint.comdsh for free shipping on your order and 365 day returns. They're also available in Canada too.

[David Howell]

I mean, especially with chess. I can't imagine like the road to recovery would be ages. It would take so long.

[Podcast Host]

Yeah, I bet. How common is cheating in chess these days?

[David Howell]

The C word. I. Yeah, I'd like to think it's not super commonplace. I was scarred, so these days a lot of the cheating takes place online and that's. That's hard to track and hard to. Hard to even be 100 about ever. But I was the victim at my. Well, close to my peak. So it was back in 2010, I was playing for England against France. It was the Chess Olympiad, so all the top nations competing, and I lost a really painful game. I had the white pieces, and I nearly never lose with whites, or at least I didn't at the time. So I walked away from the game being like something was up there. Like, I just got crushed. I never get crushed like that, even against the top players in the world. And then it turned out my opponent had been cheating. They had this convoluted system of, like, his team captain would walk behind me and stop a certain number of times to signal the coordinates, the square. And they had a friend, he would go to the bathroom, call a friend back home, sitting there with a computer, and they got found out in a really weird way. Like, it turns out that the. One of the accomplices had been. He'd been shacking up with someone at the National Federation, and they'd seen the phone and kind of. It all got revealed. But ever since that moment, I've been super paranoid. I've been like, I got dropped from the England team for a few games after that, but I was like, wait, I didn't even play that badly. I just, like, I was playing perfection. And computers are so good nowadays. It's. It's hard to. Hard to put up a fight. But, yeah. So for like, five years after that, anytime my opponents would play well, I would be like, someone needs to check them, scan them. Like. But these days, I'm pretty chill about it. I think at the top level, everyone has too much to risk. I don't think there's much cheating there, but. Yeah, but Chess.com they did release a report just. Just today, I think.

[Podcast Host]

Oh, really?

[David Howell]

And they said a hundred thousand accounts on their platform were closed in the last month alone.

[Podcast Host]

Holy crap.

[David Howell]

Cheating. That's a lot. That's a lot.

[Podcast Host]

I'd imagine it's a lot of the same people, though, making accounts, but.

[David Howell]

Exactly. I think 4, 40% of the accounts that were closed for cheating were brand new. So, yeah, it's. It's there. It's just. It's something that nobody wants to think about, and there's. It's very hard to police it.

[Podcast Host]

Yeah. Wow. So that guy would have never got caught if she wasn't hooking up with that girl.

[David Howell]

Yeah.

[Podcast Host]

Yeah. So who knows how many times you've been cheated in the past, you know?

[David Howell]

Yeah. I just don't want to think about it. It's depressing. It's depressing. But, yeah, I mean, I think that's one thing. Where chess has an issue compared to other sports games, it's just, I guess there's doping in other, like, yeah, poker, there's solvers. That's.

[Podcast Host]

That's the thing in poker. But it's. Even with the solver, it's still not like 100% you're gonna win if you're using it.

[David Howell]

Yeah. But chess is close to. At least at the top level.

[Podcast Host]

Right. Because the computers are so good. Right?

[David Howell]

They're so good. Like, all like Magnus Carlsen needs is a tap on his shoulder being like, this is the critical moment in the game. Focus now. Like, that's it.

[Podcast Host]

Really? Yeah, Just one tap and he'll lock in and find the move.

[David Howell]

Exactly. I think if you're like, you tapped me on the shoulder, like when that was a critical moment against Magnus, I would be the favorite. Like, wow. I think, like, that's how important it is at the top level.

[Podcast Host]

Holy crap. That's insane.

[David Howell]

That's why it's scary, like. Yeah. To think what could be going on.

[Podcast Host]

Yeah, that is scary, I guess. But their AI detects cheaters on the apps, right?

[David Howell]

Yeah, yeah. I mean, the, the algorithms on chess.com like, they, they catch like probably 100% of. I'll call them, like basic cheaters who just copy exactly what the computer tells them.

[Podcast Host]

Right.

[David Howell]

The hard thing is, like, when you're playing someone experienced, clever, who's already got a certain mastery of the game and they just use it like sporadically. That's like, if they're using it once or twice a game at these critical moments, it still makes a big impact on the results. And that one is the hud.

[Podcast Host]

Right. Because at the top level, one move wins you the one mistake wins you the game. Right.

[David Howell]

Exactly. Like, if you know exactly when your opponents made that mistake, I mean, yeah, that's critical, that's decisive.

[Podcast Host]

Dang, that's nuts. Well, hopefully they figure something out.

[David Howell]

I hope so too.

[Podcast Host]

Out of your three British champions, which one felt the best?

[David Howell]

I'm going to say 2013 British Championship.

[Podcast Host]

The second one.

[David Howell]

The second one? Yeah. I mean, 2009, I was 18 years old and it was a bit of a surprise. I felt to myself that I won the national title. But the second one, like, it was tough. Like, I just finished university. Like, my dad had died a few months earlier and I was just not in the right, like, mindset.

[Podcast Host]

Wow.

[David Howell]

But somehow I managed to knuckle down and focus and yeah, that was special, I think. Top three of my all time results.

[Podcast Host]

Really? That's awesome, man. So you're good at separating the personal stuff while you're playing usually.

[David Howell]

I'd like to think so, but like I've always been known as a bit of an emotional guy, like a bit of a choker. Like big moments. I, I crack.

[Podcast Host]

Really?

[David Howell]

Yeah. There have been many times like I can't sleep the night before big game. There's so much money on the line, there's titles on the line. There were two times that I nearly qualified for the candidates tournament. Yes. And that's like top eight in the world and like the world championship cycle, it's quite deep in. But both times I just couldn't sleep, couldn't control my emotions and both times I failed like at the final hurdle. So yeah, it's, it's hard but like it takes a lot of focus, a lot of determination to forget everything. I think most chess players, they'll tell you they have music going on in their minds at the same time or they have like, they'll be thinking about what to do for dinner, they'll be thinking about who they're going to be chatting up in the bar later. And it's hard to focus on the moves for like six hours sitting there. But I think the top players, that's why the kids are so good these days. They just have this single kind of single mindedness and Yeah, I wish I'd seen a sports psychologist. I think a lot younger because that's so important in chess.

[Podcast Host]

That's a big thing now, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah, I know the poker guys use those too.

[David Howell]

Yeah. And it works like, like everyone's so good that you need that 1%, you need that focus. And the world Chess champion, Gush, he's, he's known for meditating, he's known for speaking to professionals about, yeah, mindset and it's, yeah, it's no coincidence he's world champion.

[Podcast Host]

Where do you think his ceiling is? You think he can surpass Magnus one day?

[David Howell]

I think he's, I mean he can dominate the chess world if, if he kind of continues this trajectory. But it's been, it's been so fast, his rise to the top and there are a lot of other kids who are really good, like the Indians dominating the chess world at the moment at the top level. There's like several of them in the world top 10 and they're all around the same age, like this golden generation. So like if it wasn't for the fact that his rivals were also so good, then I would say like he's a unique talent. Like he's Magnus levels, but it's early to say and I hate putting like pressure on.

[Podcast Host]

Yeah.

[David Howell]

Kids shoulders. So. Yeah, he's, he's very, very good.

[Podcast Host]

So we got to watch out for India, huh?

[David Howell]

Yeah, yeah. I mean they're doing all the right things. The infrastructure is there. Like chess has lacked that throughout the world. But now there are like chess based. India is this great like channel, social media channel now there's so much sponsorship like in India. There's a lot of money coming into chess and it's great to see. But that helps the, helps the young players like accelerate their progress.

[Podcast Host]

Yeah, that makes sense. Historically, who's been the best country over since chess was around?

[David Howell]

Yeah, I mean ussr, Russia, like the Soviets used to dominate back in the day, but I think this for the first time in God knows how long, maybe ever. Recently there were no Russians in the top 10 in the world. So things are changing. Like the US now has some great players. India is I think the dominant force. But even smaller countries like Uzbekistan, like, they've won some Chess Olympiads. I mean, Norway, like with Magnus, they've done decently recently. So yeah, traditionally it's always been Europe, but now it's much more kind of globalized and it's nice to see.

[Podcast Host]

Has the US Ever won an Olympiad?

[David Howell]

Yes.

[Podcast Host]

Oh, they have.

[David Howell]

I think it was 2016. Wow. So they had Hikaru Nakamura. They had, Yeah. A lot of the top US players. They've kind of been imported, but naturalized here. So.

[Podcast Host]

Yeah. Wesley. So.

[David Howell]

Right, Wesley. So, yeah. Lena Dominguez, who's from Cuba, moved over. Levon Ironian, Armenian, moved to US and it's, I mean, it's great to see that like St. Louis is a big kind of central chess hub now in.

[Podcast Host]

The world and St. Louis, Missouri.

[David Howell]

Yeah. Wow.

[Podcast Host]

I never would have guessed that. Yeah, that's like in the south and like the middle of nowhere.

[David Howell]

Yeah. Like they've got this chess club that have been doing great things for 15 years or more now. They're kind of bankrolled by Rex Sinkfield, a billionaire. Which, which helps. But. But there, the us, India, they're all doing the right things.

[Podcast Host]

Okay.

[David Howell]

Okay.

[Podcast Host]

Do you think trash talking should be allowed at the chess table?

[David Howell]

I'm really bad at it, so I'm gonna say no. But I do know a lot of like, professionals who quite enjoy the idea and I know a lot of fans who would.

[Podcast Host]

They could make it interesting for the fans.

[David Howell]

Exactly. Like, it might be more spicy to tune in, build the rivalries. Like, I mean, it's hard to look at a picture of two guys sitting opposite each other or two girls sitting opposite each other and say, like, they hate each other. They're just there silently for six hours. Like if they were trash talking, maybe that's.

[Podcast Host]

I think it could add an element. I think someone should try and see how it goes.

[David Howell]

Exactly. I mean, a lot of the streamers, the content creators these days, they're trying these types of things, but it'll be cool to see at the top level, like, as well, so.

[Podcast Host]

Because it would add another component to the game too. Yeah, a mental component.

[David Howell]

Exactly. And like, psychology is super important already, but to add kind of, I don't know, being attacked on all sides on the board, you know, verbally.

[Podcast Host]

Yeah. Like, imagine if Hans could talk at the table.

[David Howell]

I mean, I would. I would give up against him on this one. Like, he would. Yeah.

[Podcast Host]

You know, he would be popping off.

[David Howell]

He'd probably be the best at it.

[Podcast Host]

I think so. Yeah. He's had to go through a lot. Shout out to him and crazy character arc.

[David Howell]

Yeah. Hans Niemann, I mean, he's a. He's a star already, but like, he's still so young and like, I mean, chess wise, he's super talented. I could see him challenging for the world title maybe. It's been a while since an American was world champion.

[Podcast Host]

Yeah.

[David Howell]

Yeah. Hans Niemann watched this space.

[Podcast Host]

Yeah. Shout out to Hans. Keep it up, man. So freestyle chess starts tomorrow, right?

[David Howell]

Yeah. So that's why I'm here in Vegas now. I'm commentating on the freestyle tournament, so all the best players in the world are just kind of down the road. Magnus Carlsen, Hikaru Nakamura, Hans Niemann and freestyle chess. Yeah. On paper, it randomizes things a bit more, like, levels the playing field. But yeah, Magnus Carlsen, he's the favorite, that's for sure.

[Podcast Host]

Can you bet on it?

[David Howell]

I think you should be able to. I don't know any official platforms that allow it, but I think, like, there's definitely a market for it.

[Podcast Host]

Yeah. Sports betting is big out here.

[David Howell]

I can imagine.

[Podcast Host]

Are you in Vegas often?

[David Howell]

First time.

[Podcast Host]

Oh, really?

[David Howell]

Yeah. So melting in the heat here for me was like a brand new experience.

[Podcast Host]

Yeah. I should have warned you. I didn't know you were a first timer.

[David Howell]

Yeah, yeah. Like, I. I've been to the US plenty of times, but never, never Vegas. I'm hoping that this becomes like a yearly event, the freestyle chess. And like my first night I arrived like I was staying at this hotel. Like, Backstreet Boys are playing next door.

[Podcast Host]

The Sphere.

[David Howell]

Yeah. Next to this? Yeah, next to the sphere and like, casino right downstairs. I was mind blown like Vegas is. Seen it.

[Podcast Host]

First time in Vegas rocked me. I didn't know like, about all the hotels and everything. Yeah, there's a lot of cool stuff for first time.

[David Howell]

Did you know you wanted to move here, like, after the first time?

[Podcast Host]

No, the first time I was here, I was like, I would never live here, actually. Changed Covid. Yeah. The pandemic was rough out here and I was in LA at the time and I couldn't do anything. So we came here.

[David Howell]

More going on.

[Podcast Host]

Yeah. Was it rough in. Were you in Norway when I was actually.

[David Howell]

So I'm. Yeah, I'm born on the southeast coast of England and I was there, like, I went to university in Wales, but I was there most of my life. Like, I was living in London for a while, and then Covid hit and. Yeah, there was nothing going on.

[Podcast Host]

It was rough out there, right?

[David Howell]

Super rough, yeah. Full lockdown, like. Yeah. You allow these bubbles. You allowed to, like, meet one or two people, but it's. Yeah. And then I got a call to commentate Chess in Norway and never really done it before. And that was five years ago.

[Podcast Host]

Wow. Was that for Chess.com?

[David Howell]

It was for. At the time, it was a rival company. It was the Play Magnus group. So it was like, Magnus, I've known him since we were like 8 years old. And it was his company at the time, but now they've been kind of. They've. There was a takeover. There was kind of a.

[Podcast Host]

They merged. Right?

[David Howell]

They merged. And. Yeah. So now I do a lot of stuff with chess.com and take take take, that's Magnus's other company. And. But yeah, I was working in a TV studio and I was like, bright lights. Like, the cold of Norway didn't bother me. I guess the Scandinavians and the Brits, we have a lot in common. Drinking culture. Yeah, I fell in love with the country immediately.

[Podcast Host]

That's cool, man. I want to get out there one of these days.

[David Howell]

Let me know. Hit me up.

[Podcast Host]

Yeah, I'll definitely let you know. When did you know Magnus was goat potential? Like, what age?

[David Howell]

Oof. Yeah. I mean, there were whisperings about him. I mean, I was. I mentioned earlier, like, I was decently talented when I was a kid and this 1990 generation, like, there's a bunch of grandmasters born in the year 1990, and we were all kind of pushing each other, but I remember I was one of the top guys. I would win some medals at these youth events. And then there were a couple of others. And then suddenly this random blonde kid turned up and we were like, he can't be good. Never heard of him before. And suddenly he started crushing people. I would say 13 years old, probably 13. He drew against Garry Kasparov, who was still active at the time, world number one. So, yeah, it was probably after that he kicked off, but it was only kind of in his mid teens that it was clear, like, he was destined. Destined for the top and destined to stay there.

[Podcast Host]

Wow. I wonder what made him just excel so quickly at that age.

[David Howell]

Yeah, I mean, Magnus, like, it's the love of chess. It's like the thirst for knowledge. He's always reading about the game. He's always researching. He's always, like, on his phone checking out games from the Norwegian under 12 championship. It's like, looking for new ideas. But also he has this incredible memory. Like. Yeah, even today, like, just before I came here, he was sitting at lunch and he was like, testing people on kind of soccer, football, champions League teams. Like, names, countries, like badges. And it's just another level to me. I can barely remember what I had for dinner last night. And he's. He's remembering, like, what the capital of all these counties are not let alone countries.

[Podcast Host]

So I wonder if he has photographic memory.

[David Howell]

Yeah, I don't think he likes to talk about it so much, but, like, I think it is, like, to some extent, it's. It's there. Like he can remember what, like, page of a book he saw a chess position and. Wow, that's unique.

[Podcast Host]

Yeah. Because I'd imagine the top players have to recall some previous positions, Right?

[David Howell]

Yeah.

[Podcast Host]

And they need really good memory.

[David Howell]

Yeah. Normally it's quite an active process. You have to like. Like play on a board hundreds of times in order for it to absorb. But Magnus, he sees a position and it's there. Wow. In his brain.

[Podcast Host]

Just one time, he sees it and it's there.

[David Howell]

Yeah, it's. Yeah, it's impressive.

[Podcast Host]

That's super impressive.

[David Howell]

Wow.

[Podcast Host]

What do you think of Queen's Gambit? Honestly?

[David Howell]

Yeah, I liked it. Like, I must admit, I actually held off as long as possible before watching it, just because the hype was so big. And I was like, come on, it's a chess show. Of course it's not going to be realistic. Of course it's like, it's not going to portray chess players in a good light. But then eventually I had to write an article about it and I was like, okay, go on then. And I watched it all in one sitting. And it's just nice to see that the chessboard was set up right in every scene. That's rare. Like every movie, every TV show, they get it set up wrong, really. They always put the black square in the bottom right corner. But it's. Maybe it's because cameras are flipped, but. But the Queen's Gambit, they nailed it. They had some chess advisors and I did like it. Yeah, I like. I wish he didn't have, like, these, I don't know, these pill addictions and things. Because chess players were always portrayed with some kind of.

[Podcast Host]

Some kind of seen as crazy. Right?

[David Howell]

Yeah, yeah. But I mean, it was super fun to watch and it inspired like thousands, hundreds of thousands of people to take up the game. And that's. Yeah, that's the main thing.

[Podcast Host]

Yeah. So many people went to Chess.com after that, right?

[David Howell]

Exactly. It blew up. It was maybe the pandemic. Boom. And everyone's sitting at home playing chess. But also Queen's Gambit. Netflix. I'm waiting for the next one. I'm waiting for BBC. Yeah, the BBC show. Let's go.

[Podcast Host]

We'll link it in. The description.

[David Howell]

Perfect. Chess Masters.

[Podcast Host]

Yeah, Chess Masters. What's that show about?

[David Howell]

Yeah, so it's kind of. It's a quiz show. I was one of the presenters alongside, like, a couple of others, a chess guy and very famous comedian in the UK. And. And we had 12 competitors, amateur players from all around the country, all different backgrounds, and we would put them through their paces, like puzzles, chess games. And, yeah, ultimately there was a winner. No spoilers. But, yeah, so it's kind of quiz show meets chess meets reality tv. And currently waiting to see if we get a second go. So.

[Podcast Host]

Nice.

[David Howell]

Hoping it gets recommissioned.

[Podcast Host]

Sending good energy, your work.

[David Howell]

Thank you.

[Podcast Host]

Do you think anyone will challenge fide? Because I know there talks about someone trying to compete with them.

[David Howell]

Right. Yeah. I mean, fide, they've had their critics. I've been one of them for a while. Like, they've, like, I think past presidencies. Past. Yeah, yeah. In the past, they didn't do enough to promote chess. Like, there's so much potential now. Like all these different sportsmen, all these great actresses. Actresses. They so interested in chess. Like, Queen's Gambit was there, but somehow these big tournaments, there wasn't prize money. Like, barely.

[Podcast Host]

Right.

[David Howell]

The whole system was a bit. I wouldn't say corrupt, but just old school. Yeah, very old school. And now it's a bit more modernized. They're kind of taking more of an active role. But, yeah, I Mean, I would love to see everyone come together and unite like Chess.com FIDE. There was some tension. Magnus and FIDE. There was.

[Podcast Host]

I saw that.

[David Howell]

Yeah. And it's, it's sad to see, like, chess hits the front pages for the drama. That's just how it is. But I would love to see it, like, for good reasons, for positive stuff. And I mean, it's. Yeah, it's moving in the right direction, just maybe not as quickly as it.

[Podcast Host]

That's good. I think competition will help in the long run. You know, it always does because you get too comfortable if you're the only league.

[David Howell]

Yeah. And now, I mean, there's plenty. There's freestyle chess, there's Chess.com, there's FIDE, there's. Yeah, this esports World cup now coming in. This plenty. So I'm hoping that, yeah, like you say, competition breeds. Breeds are better. Chess world.

[Podcast Host]

Yeah. So Chess.com has their own championship league too.

[David Howell]

They host a lot of tournaments. Yeah. And they have the biggest audiences and the biggest budgets often. And they do good work. So, yeah, it's just whether they can work together and kind of. I think the one thing chess lacks compared to like tennis and other individual sports is this kind of coherent, like tour or like regular schedule. The regular system.

[Podcast Host]

Right. The media.

[David Howell]

Right, exactly. And like tennis, you know what to expect. You know, four times a year there's a grand slam. Between, there's some big tournaments. Now it's like every week a different tournament. Chess tournament pops up.

[Podcast Host]

And I don't even know the names of all them. I just see one on my phone. I'm like, oh, that's a new one.

[David Howell]

That's my point. Yeah. I want it to be like recognizable people. Super excited. They're like, oh, it's, it's now July. That means it's this tournament.

[Podcast Host]

Right.

[David Howell]

And it's known, this tournament to be in a place for a reason. It's super exciting for its own unique. For its own unique purpose. And yeah, that's my goal someday. To kind of help the chess world be more kind of appealing and to maintain the fans rather than for them to drop in and out.

[Podcast Host]

That'd be great. How's the in person showing? Is there a lot of people that pull up to these?

[David Howell]

There's a few. I hope, I hope you'll visit this one.

[Podcast Host]

I'm going to come tomorrow. Yeah. I've never been to a chess event. I'm really excited, man.

[David Howell]

Wow. Okay. You've started. Yeah. You'll be starting on a high there. It's a good one. There'll be an in person audience. There isn't always, but the unique thing here in Vegas for the freestyle event is that the audiences, they'll have headphones on and they can hear. If they're not sick of my voice after this, they can hear me commentate while they watch the chess games. They'll be a few meters away from the players. So it's a really kind of intimate experience.

[Podcast Host]

Nice. That's cool, man. Well, David, this has been really fun. I've learned a lot. I can't wait to see what you do next. Where can people find you and support you?

[David Howell]

Yeah, I mean, for now, social media, like, you can drop the link so I won't go on too much. But yeah, I commentate on a lot of the biggest chess events. So if you're interested. Yeah. Go check out this. Take it. Take.

[Podcast Host]

Let's go. I hope you guys are enjoying the show. Please don't forget to like and subscribe. It helps the show a lot with the algorithm. Thank you.