Destiny Vs David Khait: IRS Funding Debate: Fixing Fraud or Harassing Americans? I DSH #1473

Summary

Podcast Summary: Digital Social Hour

Episode Title: Destiny Vs David Khait: IRS Funding Debate: Fixing Fraud or Harassing Americans?
Release Date: August 1, 2025
Host: Sean Kelly
Guests: Destiny and David Khait
Duration: Approximately 47 minutes

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1. Introduction

In this episode of Digital Social Hour, host Sean Kelly moderates a spirited debate between Destiny and David Khait focusing on IRS funding and its implications for fraud prevention and the treatment of American taxpayers. The conversation delves into broader topics, including immigration policy, tax reforms, deficit concerns, and the effectiveness of entitlement programs.

2. Immigration Policy and Border Control

Trump vs. Previous Administrations

David begins by expressing his nuanced view of President Trump's impact on America, stating, “I’m not a partisan guy… I like policy” (00:34). He acknowledges that while Trump may not be "making America great again," he views his policies as superior to those of Democrats.

Destiny counters this by highlighting multiple areas where she believes Trump has faltered:

• Rule of Law: "The attack on the rule of law… is really bad" (01:29).
• Foreign Policy: "I don't know if America’s ever looked worse on the world stage" (01:32).
• Immigration Theatrics: "The weaponization of… the invocation of the Alien Enemies Act… is bizarre" (01:50).

Asylum Process and Legislative Reform

The debate intensifies around the asylum-seeking process. Destiny advocates for legislative reform, criticizing Trump’s reliance on executive orders:

• "If you have a legitimate asylum case, you can adjudicate that in the United States with temporary protective status" (08:57).

David emphasizes the deterrence achieved without comprehensive reform:

• "We have a 98 point or 99.8% reduction in the amount of individuals not only crossing the border illegally" (06:43).

Key Exchange:

• David: "When 15,000 people are entering the country illegally on a daily basis, what is the primary issue?" (13:52)
• Destiny: "The asylum seeking process was the primary issue" (07:01).

3. Tax Cuts and IRS Funding

Impact of the Tax Cuts and Jobs Act

The conversation shifts to the Tax Cuts and Jobs Act, with Destiny scrutinizing its effectiveness:

• "I think that the working class and the middle class benefited the most from these tax cuts" (32:23).

David provides a detailed breakdown of how different income groups were affected:

• "Filers with an AGI of 15 to 50k had an average tax cut of 16 to 26%" (30:32).
• He further explains disparities in tax cuts for higher earners, arguing it benefits wealthier individuals disproportionately (27:58).

Progressive vs. Regressive Taxation

Destiny challenges David’s assertion, querying the classification of these tax cuts as progressive:

• "The tax bracket came down at the top, then it doesn't matter. Right now we're 2 million or tax" (28:02).

David defends his stance by referring to IRS data and the marginal tax brackets, suggesting higher earners saw minimal benefits:

• "Average tax cut for brackets starting at 1 million was less than 6%" (31:37).

4. Deficit and Entitlement Programs

Deficit Spending Under Different Administrations

The duo debates the trajectory of the national deficit:

• David: "Under Trump, there is… increased the annual deficit spending by 300 billion… making it about 2.1 trillion" (35:42).
• Destiny: Argues that the deficit was coming down under Biden, though they later discuss discrepancies in deficit figures.

Medicaid and Medicare Reforms

Discussion moves to entitlement programs, with Destiny advocating for reforms to combat fraud:

• "Increasing the amount of judges available to adjudicate the asylum cases… would help ship them out as quickly as possible" (15:59).

David emphasizes the need to combat inefficiencies and fraud within these programs:

• "The Government Accountability Office… consistently said since 2003 that there are more than $60 billion annual in fraud or inefficiency" (35:55).

IRS Funding as a Solution:

• Destiny: "Fund the IRS more so they can go after money that they know is owed but they don’t have the resources to chase down" (41:44).
• David: Questions the effectiveness of simply increasing IRS funding without systemic reforms (43:21).

5. Partisanship and Legislative Challenges

The debate highlights the deep partisan divide affecting legislation:

• David: Criticizes congressional Republicans for not passing comprehensive immigration bills, attributing it to a desire to win elections over effective policy-making (22:51).
• Destiny: Points out that Trump’s approach hindered bipartisan efforts by pressuring Republicans to align strictly with his agenda (23:02).

They discuss the broader implications of partisanship on governance, with Destiny suggesting that Republicans have failed to negotiate effectively across the aisle:

• "Republicans don't even try to negotiate with the Democrats" (24:04).

6. Conclusion

The episode concludes without a clear resolution, reflecting the ongoing tensions and complexities surrounding IRS funding, immigration policy, and fiscal responsibility. Sean Kelly wraps up the debate, encouraging listeners to engage and share their opinions.

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Notable Quotes with Timestamps

• Destiny on Tax Cuts:

  • "00:26 I'm just looking at the tax brackets. I don't think a two point cut on my tax bracket is helping. It's not changing my life significantly."

• David on Trump's Policies:

  • "00:34 It’s a complex issue. I’m not a partisan guy… I like policy."

• Destiny Critiquing Trump’s Immigration Approach:

  • "01:29 The attack on the rule of law… is really bad."

• David on Asylum Process Reform:

  • "08:57 If you have a legitimate asylum case, you can adjudicate that in the United States with temporary protective status."

• Destiny on IRS Funding:

  • "41:44 Fund the IRS more so they can go after money that they know is owed but they don’t have the resources to chase down."

• David on Deficit Spending:

  • "35:42 Under Trump, there is… increased the annual deficit spending by 300 billion… making it about 2.1 trillion."

• Destiny on Partisanship:

  • "24:04 Republicans don't even try to negotiate with the Democrats."

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Final Thoughts

This episode of Digital Social Hour underscores the polarized perspectives on fiscal policies, immigration reforms, and the role of government agencies like the IRS in ensuring economic integrity. Destiny and David present contrasting viewpoints that illuminate the complexities and challenges in achieving bipartisan solutions to pressing national issues.

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Note: The timestamps provided correspond to the segments in the transcript for reference.

Transcript

[David]

What's that progressive used to champion behind or what would you like to see?

[Destiny]

I'm just looking at the tax brackets.

[David]

I know. What would you like to see that's better? You want to pay more taxes yourself? What?

[Destiny]

No, I. Paying taxes more as an individual doesn't really help much. I think we should probably try to find our government in general. Yeah, we should fund the government where. I don't think a two point cut on my tax bracket is helping. It's not changing my life significantly.

[Sean Kelly]

Okay, guys, we are at Student Action Summit. Got David and Destiny here. Let's get right into it, fellas. Is Trump making America great right now?

[David]

Oh, me first. It's a complex issue. I'm not a partisan guy that constantly is a cultist or upholds values to an individual. I like policy. And when there's big, beautiful bills that a conservative can't stand, I'll call that out and criticize it. So I don't know if he's making America great again, but he's definitely better than the previous candidate, previous president. A whole lot better than what the Democrat Party can offer to us, whatever policy it is. Yeah.

[Destiny]

What's your rebuttal to that? Yeah, I would say it's probably worse in every single immeasurable way. I think that the attack on the rule of law, I think is really bad. I think all the lawfare that he's engaged in is really bad. Foreign policy wise. I don't know if America's ever looked worse on the world stage, whether it comes to military stuff or economic stuff like trade deals. I think even for the things that conservatives might care about, I think that he is hurting those causes. I would say that the way he's approached, like the theatrics related to ICE is really bad. The weaponization of like the. The invocation of the Alien Enemies Act, I think it was bizarre. The El Salvador stuff. I just think that even if you did care ostensibly about some conservative platform, Trump has just done bad things for every part of what you could possibly care about.

[David]

Like immigration.

[Destiny]

I would say probably.

[David]

Yeah. Yeah. How so?

[Destiny]

I think that when you roll by executive order, it can be rescinded by executive order. If all of his benefits at the border are addressed because of eos that he's issued, and he hasn't been able to champion or pass any kind of comprehensive immigration reform, I don't think it.

[David]

Speaks well to deter the crisis that was happening at the southern border under the previous administration.

[Destiny]

I mean, if you. It depends on if you believe it was A crisis or not?

[David]

Well, the average American for consistently over a year said that the immigration, specifically what is happening at the southern border is one of the most important issues for them. Why is that if it's not a crisis?

[Destiny]

Because I think Republicans told them and.

[David]

They also told Democrats as well, who are polled for saying more than 70% of the average American say that they don't want illegal immigrants crossing our border, especially taking advantage of various programs that we have here, whether they are Republicans or Democrats. So I'll ask you again, how is he able to deter illegal migrants from crossing the border at such a high level without passing any policy, any executive order or whatever it is?

[Destiny]

Well, I think there's a lot less people coming to America now, period. Tourism is down like 80% across almost every.

[David]

We're not talking about tourism.

[Destiny]

No, no, but I'm just saying generally people are.

[David]

Southern border.

[Destiny]

Yeah, I'm just saying people. Well, I mean, if less people even trying to come here, then I imagine legal crossings are probably done as well. Just saying that it's hard to believe that Americans genuinely care about a problem when one, Trump killed the bill outside of office when Biden was in for his last year, and then nothing has been proposed in the meantime, and then two again.

[David]

But you don't need to reform the system in order to deter illegal migrants from wanting to come to, to the southern border first of all and then to illegally enter our country.

[Destiny]

Right, sure. Was the goal just to bring immigration, illegal immigration to zero?

[David]

I don't know what is the goal of Democrats? All I look at it is from a.

[Destiny]

Well, no, but I'm saying for Trump, I thought the goal was to like, do something different with the immigration system to deal with like the 20 million illegal immigrants that are supposedly here already.

[David]

Sure. That is after the previous administration completely disregarded the rule of law and allowed so many people to come into their country and abuse asylum law. So instead of reforming the system, I'm all for when there is a crisis, do you reform the system or do you deter the crisis from happening?

[Destiny]

So I don't think that there was a Crisis.

[David]

What is 50,000 illegal immigrants crossing the border illegally, not through a port of entry, every single day, amounting to 3 million people illegally entering the country over a year? What do you call that? What do you tell the New Yorkers, the Chicago people, the Detroit people, who aren't your traditional Republicans going to council city meetings, stiffen it into their mayors doing what?

[Destiny]

If it was so much of a crisis, then why did Republicans kill the bill to cap the amount of legal spilling over.

[David]

We just saw that you didn't need a bill in order to deter.

[Destiny]

You still might be coming to the eo, but we also see that when you do things to your executive order, the judiciary will challenge you on a lot of stuff that you do. So why not do it with a legislation?

[David]

What did this administration do differently in the first 30 days when it came down to illegal crossings that the previous administration didn't?

[Destiny]

Well, they won. They're issuing harsh executive orders. And then two. I think America in general is a less attractive place to flee to at the moment.

[David]

It's a less.

[Destiny]

But again, I think that. Again, I think when you have.

[David]

When you have metropolitan cities giving you free everything.

[Destiny]

Nobody in America gets free everything.

[David]

Nobody in America gets free anything.

[Destiny]

Free everything. Nobody's getting free everything.

[David]

Okay, I didn't say everything, but whatever. When an individual on the previous administration crossed the border illegally, not through a port of entry, what did they do with the individual?

[Destiny]

It depends on if they meet a border guard and they try to claim asylum. It depends on they're sneaking in through. But, but, but before this happened, before this. I was saying before, if this was a crisis, it's very strange that there was a huge piece of legislation originally authored by a Republican that both halves of Congress are ready to support, and then it got shot down. And what did that bill.

[David]

What was that bill gonna do to deter illegal migrants from coming to the southern border in the same.

[Sean Kelly]

All right, guys, Sean Kelly here, host of the Digital Social Hour podcast, just filmed 3:33amazing episodes at Student Action Summit. Shout out to Code Health, you know, sponsor these episodes. But also I took them before filming each day. Felt amazing. Just filmed 20 episodes straight, and I'm not even tired, honestly. So Code Health, amazing products. I also take these at home, especially when I travel. I used to get sick every time I. I flew, and I started taking that first time I haven't had a runny nose. Knock on wood. One standout element.

[Destiny]

I mean, it's so easy.

[Sean Kelly]

You know, you got the travel pack here, but you could just take this, fit it in your pocket if you need to. Also all natural, like, only saline solution in there, so you don't got to worry about any crazy side effects or anything. Yeah, Code's unique with supplements.

[Destiny]

There's a lot of.

[Sean Kelly]

Who knows what's in these, those ingredients. Code Health, I haven't seen much like this where it's just based off, you know, the coat, the codes that are in the saline solution. So I would Say they're very unique. It's going to be the future of health and medicine. Code health has been awesome.

[David]

Feel the drop and go code yourself way that they are not doing so now.

[Destiny]

Well, it, it codified into law the same type of caps that President Trump is trying to put on.

[David]

Caps we don't caps right now. Right. To deter migrants.

[Destiny]

Well, one of the issues. Well, one of the issues with the asylum seeking process was people could come forward in like these huge amounts of like record breaking numbers and claim asylum. And if you had too many people that were doing this, you had too many people trying to claim asylum. One of the thing the bill would have done was let you cap it and put a moratorium on it for two weeks.

[David]

We both agreed that there's an issue with asylum process and people taking advantage of it. But when you have 15,000 people coming in on a daily basis that would have not done a single. Okay, let me ask you this. We didn't pass a bill. We didn't reform the system whatsoever. Yep. And we deterred it by 99.8%.

[Destiny]

And all the people that why asylum seeking are still in this country. They're not gone.

[David]

They're still care about them.

[Destiny]

I do care. You don't have. So it wasn't a crisis. There wasn't a crisis on that.

[David]

Yeah. What is the primary issue at the southern border previously under the previous administration? Is it the problem when they're already in the United States or is it before. Before they actually asylum seeking primary issues.

[Destiny]

The asylum seeking process was the aside was the primary issue.

[David]

So you don't think that people entering the country or. Sorry, you don't think that people wanting it and being incentivized to come up to the southern border from all over the world, not just South America, but from all over the world is not a problem. That's not the primary issue.

[Destiny]

Well, why do you care about the.

[David]

Reason why when we're already in the.

[Destiny]

The reason why they were incentivized was because people realized, especially after Covid, that the asylum process was super abusive.

[David]

What did a former President Biden do right after Covid in terms of immigration related law? You pulled out of the.

[Destiny]

Are you going to say remain in Mexico?

[David]

Yeah.

[Destiny]

So how many people did you say Wait, how many people did you say a year were coming over illegally or a day? You said 15,000.

[David]

15,000.

[Destiny]

I think remain in Mexico was responsible for like 60,000 people remain in Mexico. First of all, we're not just going to play a quiz game, but I will Explain it, since you like to ask me a question. Remain in Mexico. Made it. Remain in Mexico. Made it.

[David]

So that it coming to the southern border.

[Destiny]

60,000 remained in Mexico for their process.

[David]

I just did all over. Okay.

[Destiny]

People will apply for process down there. But what I'm saying is that if you wanted, you could have done an actual immigration bill that would have addressed so many different layers of this problem, including the massive backlaw we have of asylum seekers. And that was the issue you're super.

[David]

Passionate about asylum seekers.

[Destiny]

Because that was the issue that's super.

[David]

Passionate about asylum seekers. I'll ask you this. Where do the super majority. Not 50, 60%, more than 90% of asylum seekers. True asylum seekers, not bullshit asylum seekers. Where did they seek asylum? If we're talking about Venezuelan, are we.

[Destiny]

Going to say like the country of first century where they arrived at first.

[David]

They go to their neighboring country. More than 92%, according to statistics, actually go to their neighboring country. So let me ask you this. If you're facing legitimate asylum, first of all, are you going to track all the way up to the southern border, pay thousands of dollars, tens of thousands of dollars sometimes. Because you're bringing your family to pay the cartels to then have a legitimate asylum case and then enter illegally, not through the port of entry. If you have a legitimate asylum case, you can adjudicate that in the United States with temporary protective status in the United States. You don't have to sit in Mexico and wait for your asylum case.

[Destiny]

So why would they go for asylum over a tps?

[David]

Why would they go for asylum over tps? Because asylum is much easier to seek in the United States and then be granted tps. Right. When the individual entered the United States and is seeking asylum, what do they grant him?

[Destiny]

What do they grant them?

[David]

Yeah. While they adjudicate their case, are you.

[Destiny]

Going to talk about how they issue them a receipt to show up at their case?

[David]

And you're talking about relief from temporary protective status.

[Destiny]

Yeah.

[David]

Right.

[Destiny]

Because they're waiting for their. But they're waiting for their case to be adjudicated.

[David]

Of course. Yeah.

[Destiny]

So it would have been nice if we had more judges to adjudicate these cases like the border bill would have given us.

[David]

It'd be nice. Like we have right now a 98 point or 99.8% reduction in amount of individuals not only crossing the border illegally.

[Destiny]

So the number is not. The number is not true. Just to be clear. The number is not real.

[David]

But yeah, those are real. But it's fine. It's the usual step.

[Destiny]

But if Trump's not real get rid of the what is Trump the 5 or 10 million asylum seekers that are already in the United States.

[David]

He's trying every legal means that he can possibly can.

[Destiny]

So nothing. So he hasn't done anything.

[David]

Well he did he try and enact aliens enemies act to remove individuals out of the country with limited process From.

[Sean Kelly]

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[Destiny]

Well, and that that act requires us to be at war with the country or for them to be invaded us, which is probably not true.

[David]

Well, okay. Well, there's a sophisticated. There's actually a really detailed article about.

[Destiny]

To be clear, there's absolutely no detailed argument about how that can work. The only way that it does is to confound basically the, the, the gangs with the actual Venezuelan government and to say because they have some members that are inside the government that report about.

[David]

How the Venezuelan government, the Ma.1 second train paratroopers to come into the United States, go to various states in the United States. Again, I don't really give a shit about that.

[Destiny]

Oh, I thought you said you cared about policy and rule of law. I do so.

[David]

Well, clearly you don't because you don't think that 15,000 people coming into the country illegally on a daily basis, it's not a problem.

[Destiny]

And I did think it was a problem. That's why I supported the bill. But I prefer to have legislation from Congress for immigration rather than just executives, not a crisis.

[David]

New Yorkers. Can we finish?

[Destiny]

What do you think? If you just keep. It's like a quiz. I'm curious, do you think that it would have been better to pass the bill or just to do things via executive action?

[David]

I think it's better to deter.

[Destiny]

When it's better to have comprehensive border legislation or an executive order, that can be the crisis.

[David]

You deter the crisis from happening. And once you don't have a crisis anymore, you can focus on reforming the immigration law.

[Destiny]

So after four years, if Trump doesn't have an immigration bill, do you think that would have been a failure of this administration?

[David]

I think that if they don't reform the asylum and close the loopholes when it comes down to asylum, now that we don. Have the crisis at the southern border, I think that'll be a failure by the administration. Absolutely. But it's a whole.

[Destiny]

Yeah. Then we'll wait and see what happens in four years when they don't have another border.

[David]

Well, we'll come back here in about three and a half years. Okay, I just want to end this with asking you one more time. When 15,000 people are entering the country illegally on a daily basis, what is the primary issue? Is it once they're in the country or them actually coming to the border from all over the world?

[Destiny]

The way you're phrasing your question, it sounds like you're alluding to the fact that there could be that issues that the country of Mexico faces due to destabilization on border because of all the different presence of crime and people who are paying for passage. Or is there any other quiz?

[David]

I'm asking you what is the primary issue?

[Destiny]

Depends on what interested party you're talking about.

[David]

I don't care about parties. I'm asking you. I'm not asking me.

[Destiny]

It doesn't matter to me at all. It's not. Doesn't affect me.

[David]

Am I debating. Well, I'm so I'm asking you when you.

[Destiny]

No, no. You're asking me what. What is the primary issue that there is a crisis. You asked me what the primary issue was and I asked you as for. As per which interested party because different parties have different prerogatives.

[David]

Care about parties. I'm asking you how can you evaluate you.

[Destiny]

Okay. From me.

[David]

Yeah.

[Destiny]

Am I. I'm rapid person that lives in the United States and I don't care. It doesn't affect me. What do you mean? Because it doesn't have a personal negative impact on my existence.

[David]

What do you have any friends that died from fentanyl or something?

[Destiny]

My family's from Cuba, so I'm a big fan of illegal immigration, I guess when it comes to getting to this.

[David]

Yeah, my. I mean my parents are from ussr, I'm from Israel. I came into the country legally. What is. What does that have. I can't stand illegal immigrants because they abuse illegally.

[Destiny]

A lot of my family came here illegally. Okay, well, I guess we had foot drive. Maybe it was legal.

[Sean Kelly]

But I hope you guys are enjoying the show. Please don't forget to like and subscribe. It helps the show a lot with the algorithm. Thank you.

[Destiny]

I don't know. I. I don't know.

[David]

What.

[Destiny]

What are you trying to railroad me to?

[David]

I guess I'm not trying to railroad. I'm trying to understand what is. What do you believe in when it comes down to illegal immigration? Because you said you oppose.

[Destiny]

What do I personally believe in? I think that borders are important. I think that knowing everybody who's here is important. I think having illegal immigrants is just bad. Obviously, definitionally they're illegal. I think that trying to find a way to reduce the overall amount of illegal immigrants in the country I think would be a beneficial thing. And I think reducing the amount of people that could get into the country illegally would also be a beneficial thing.

[David]

I think on the background supporter to me all of a sudden, well.

[Destiny]

But on the backside of that. Well, one Trump isn't doing anything really to alleviate any of the people here. He's wasting a ton of money on theatrics that are probably going to make everybody hate immigration. Some examples, like the horse march through MacArthur park recently, I think was really bad. The invocation of the Alien Enemies act was a joke. Shipping people to El Salvador has just been a giant l all of the court fights where they're hiding information from judges.

[David]

Would you like this administration to actually deport the illegal immigrants that came in the country with no legitimate asylum case in the last three and a half years?

[Destiny]

I think that increasing the amount of judges available to adjudicate the asylum cases so we can work through the backlog quicker, I think it'd be good so you can finally delegitimate cases and just ship them out as quickly as possible. I think a reformation of the asylum seeking process is essential. It's too easy to just sneak into the country, claim asylum, and then get a catch and release receipt and stay here for three years.

[David]

I think that have this luxury when you have 15,000 people coming into the country illegally every single day, then pass.

[Destiny]

Legislation to change the way that you process people on the border.

[David]

I'll ask you the question again. Do you think that you can do exactly what you said While you have 15,000 people?

[Destiny]

You can do both at the same time?

[David]

Yes, you can do both at the same time. How are you going to deter the illegal immigrants from coming up to the southern border from all over the world while also reforming the immigration law?

[Destiny]

Well, part of the bill was literally capping the amount of people that were allowed to come in such that you could turn people away even if they were planning asylum.

[David]

Stop illegal immigrants from all over the world wanting to come up to the southern border.

[Destiny]

Nobody's going to want to come here. What do you mean?

[David]

No? Well, suddenly we don't have everybody wanting to come up to the southern bor.

[Destiny]

If there was a cap on the amount of people coming in, then it would stop people from wanting to come. They wouldn't get.

[David]

Yes. If they were okay, 5,000 people can come into the country every day illegally. After that, we cap it. You think that people from all over the world will suddenly stop to come?

[Destiny]

Yeah, because the amount of people that would come in would be significantly decreased.

[David]

Yes. Oh, we'll see. I mean, that's a hypothesis, but the reality of it is we can look at it objectively. So we have a president that came in and enforced 8 U.S. code 1325, which criminalizes illegal entry into the United States does not allow the asylum 1158 to be prioritized over that. And that deters migrants from wanting to come to the border because when they think about an administration that will actually enforce the rule of law, they're not going to be wanting to come up to the southern border. Nope.

[Destiny]

There's no conflict between.

[David]

Why does zero. Why did zero tolerance policy deter migrants from completely wanting to enter the country?

[Destiny]

There's no conflict between US Law and the asylum seeking process. The asylum seeking process was completely legal. That's why it needs to be reformed. Because it was being abused.

[David]

I agree with that.

[Destiny]

Okay, so to say that we finally had a person who came in and enforced USC won whatever, 1813. I don't know what the immigration was.

[David]

25 illegal entry into the. Yeah. Why didn't. Why didn't the previous administration do that?

[Destiny]

The previous administration was doing that. But you can't just kick people out who are claiming asylum because that was the law on the books.

[David]

So you allow individuals to come into the country illegally, say that they're seeking asylum, detain them for 48 hours, and then put them on a plane, but they go where?

[Destiny]

You don't know. You don't know. We just said assume you don't know where you come in illegally. If they are running asylum, you have to adjudicate the case.

[David]

They're running into a border patrol agent after they didn't enter the country through a port of entry. What is that?

[Destiny]

Well, if you claim asylum, it's part of the asylum seeking process. I don't care about that.

[David]

When they enter.

[Destiny]

If you don't care about the law, then we're talking about what I'm asking you. When you come into the country between a port of entry and you claim.

[David]

Asylum, when they didn't enter the country through the port of entry, what kind of crossing is that?

[Destiny]

Depends on what their intention was.

[David]

I don't care about their intention.

[Destiny]

Well, the law literally calls intention out. The one that you were citing for the intention is pretty important. Do you want my personal opinion, like moral opinion, or do you want the law?

[David]

I don't care what you provide me. I'm asking you.

[Destiny]

How can you ask me two totally different. They're different questions. Do you care about the law or do you care what my opinion is?

[David]

Both. I don't know.

[Destiny]

I mean, my opinion would align with the law. If you come here, like, meaningfully and intentionally trying to seek asylum because you feel like you have a legitimate case, I think that's fine.

[David]

You think 10 million of them had a legitimate asylum case in three years. Okay, so what, what are they doing? They're gaming their system, right?

[Destiny]

Yes, of course. That's what I've said yes for this entire conversation.

[David]

Yeah. Okay.

[Destiny]

You need to figure out a way to make them stop gaming the system.

[David]

Okay.

[Destiny]

If it was just a matter of enforcing the law, we wouldn't have needed an executive order from Trump to do it.

[David]

Right. Again, I kind of want to just circle back to how were we able to dirt deter so many illegal immigrants from coming into the country without actually doing any of that, without, without fixing the asylum process, without any policy, with no zero tolerance being implemented whatsoever?

[Destiny]

If you want to do a crappy job, then you can half ass it like Trump did by just being stricter on the border. But it's not addressing any of the anywhere from 5 to 15 million people. Give different numbers for how many are here right now on the asylum seeking.

[David]

You care, you care about the secondary issue because no longer is a Democrat in the administration. You wouldn't be doing that if it was the previous administration. I would be.

[Destiny]

That's why I supported Biden when he wanted to pass the bill that would have addressed both issues.

[David]

Did you care about in 2022 where we were at like heights?

[Destiny]

It was hard to say after 2022 what it did.

[David]

What about 2023? Early 2023, because that bill didn't get introduced till early 2024.

[Destiny]

Sure. There were a lot of other things going on. Inflation was our huge issue that we were fighting against at that point.

[David]

Yeah. But we still had a crisis at the southern border. So, I mean, we have 15,000 people coming in every single day.

[Destiny]

What's the crisis? How is that affecting us and where do we see that?

[David]

Sure. I want you to go to New York City, Chicago.

[Destiny]

Tell me where has I been in New York City and Chicago in the past three months?

[David]

Finish letting me, I promise. Right. You just handle yourself a little bit and we can get through it. If you go to New York City and you talk to non traditional Republicans who are definitely not some pro Trumpers or cultists or whatever the case is, they go to city council meetings and lay it to the city council members, the mayors, whatever it is. Why?

[Destiny]

Because it's what they've been told on conservative news.

[David]

Non traditional Republican cultists are being brainwashed by what? Fox News.

[Destiny]

What are their AI videos that they see? Yeah. By people like Charlie kirk or whatever AI video they see on Instagram or TikTok. So the reason why you can't answer this Question is, because it's not really the crisis everybody says it was.

[David]

It's propaganda. When New York City has to take $6 billion out of their budget, taxpayer budget, and allocate it towards illegal immigration, whether it's housing or whatever the program may be. This is why you guys lose elections. This is why you lost the previous election. You lost every single battleground state because you do this thing. You say that illegal immigration is not.

[Destiny]

A problem because the same president lost the election in 2020. So, I mean, I agree with that. So I don't know what the point is.

[David]

I have a gotcha moment on me. He lost the election in 2020, you're saying.

[Destiny]

I think we lost the election on inflation. I think that was the big issue. That.

[David]

I mean, what was the. What was, number one, number two, and.

[Destiny]

I know people vote on the economy, they say legal immigration. I think that the thing was the.

[David]

Classic thing that you reject it and then once you see that, you don't have any room to reject it anymore, you say, yeah, it's happening, but it's not that bad, actually.

[Destiny]

I don't know you're shadowing right now. But no, I'm always, like, pretty critical of pulling data. Like when you pull people on questions, like they're giving you answers and they mean different things depending on what you're looking at. I think the big issue on this election was inflation. I think you saw it in basically governments around the entire world. I think everybody was kind of upset about the inflation over the coronavirus period.

[David]

Well, the number two issue consistently for American voters for over a year was immigration.

[Destiny]

And it's crazy that all of the complaints about that seemed to disappear as soon as Trump came into office, despite the fact that he wasn't really afforded what happened. Anybody from all of these applications, that's fine. But all these were a problem.

[David]

Destiny, what happened in the first month, Nothing happened.

[Destiny]

With regards to the problem that are here on the southern border thing happened. When it came to the people that were.

[David]

Nothing happening. I don't care about the people that are already here. That is something that we're going to.

[Destiny]

Have the game we're going to play. Myself, while you keep repeating yourself, nothing happened.

[David]

You want to avoid what happened in the first month of President Trump's presidency, second term, when it came down to immigration, that's fine. I don't have a problem talking to you about ICE proceedings and what it comes down to, deportation and how they handle deportation. But you keep avoiding.

[Destiny]

I haven't avoided at all. Trump shut down the border. He managed to stop people from coming in, but nothing's being done about all the people here. And I don't think anything will be done about the people here.

[David]

Yeah, and you wanted a bill, a bipartisan bill in order to accomplish.

[Destiny]

The bill would have accomplished both of those things, and both halves of Congress are ready to support it until Trump shot it down because he said, I want to keep the border open for my election.

[David]

So Trump, Trump called the congressman and said, hey, we can't pass this because I've got to win an election. Yep. You don't think that House Republican Ted.

[Destiny]

Cruz explicitly said this? McConnell said as much. Lankford complained about that.

[David]

You can say congressional Republicans have their own mind and say, hey, you know what, that actually doesn't deter illegal immigrants from coming to the southern border.

[Destiny]

Now, of course, in this administration, if you don't follow Trump, he'll try to primary you, he'll kick you out.

[David]

If they en worked out for Massey.

[Destiny]

Too, or Massey is literally being attacked right now. Yes. By Trump. What happened to all the Never Trump.

[David]

Republicans already did this in 2022 and he failed.

[Destiny]

So you don't think Trump has ejected Never Trumpers from.

[David]

He has, but it's not going to uphold all the time.

[Destiny]

Not all the time, but it's. That's a political calculation. Now that you have to keep in mind that if you try to go.

[David]

Against a Trump agenda, that happens on the cultist left. Right. Why do they.

[Destiny]

Absolutely not.

[David]

I mean, why do they vote in blocks on every single thing?

[Destiny]

What do you mean blocks on every single thing?

[David]

In the previous administration, how many times did they have 50 senators agree on a bill?

[Destiny]

Do you think that there is more partisanship on the left or more partisanship with the Republicans?

[David]

You tell me.

[Destiny]

I think the black voters right now.

[David]

Okay, so in the previous administration, did Republicans work with congressional Democrats and the previous president in order to pass whatever bills?

[Destiny]

Like because Biden made an inflation effort.

[David]

Yeah.

[Destiny]

Or the effort to work with them.

[David]

Yeah. Okay, so why do you think it's opposite when it's a Republican president? Why do Democrats refuse to work whatsoever except a couple Democrats to go out.

[Destiny]

Of their way to negotiate with other senators and House members in the House? Yeah, you can laugh. But I mean, like there's a reason why Republicans don't even try. Republicans don't even try to negotiate with the Democrats.

[David]

The only thing that can afford you is with this past cr. Because they knew that they wouldn't be able to pass everything with Democrats. Why? Because Democrats don't want to work with the Republicans. It's as simple as that.

[Destiny]

First time in all of US History, Republicans couldn't even hold on to their majority House seats.

[David]

What do you mean?

[Destiny]

When it was the whole McCarthy debacle and the. The majority House.

[David]

Yeah, that happens when you rule with the slimmer.

[Destiny]

No, no, no, no. What happens? That was the past. Various history.

[David]

You have various. Which I love about the Republican Party.

[Destiny]

Love the failure to govern.

[David]

I love. No, I love the fact that there are various ideologies in the Republican Party. Unlike on your side, you have ultra progressives and then you have whatever you are. I don't know what the you are.

[Destiny]

Yeah, that's just completely and totally not true.

[David]

But it's true. I mean, that's just the honest reality of it. That's why you guys can. Can pass comprehensive reform when it comes down to immigration.

[Destiny]

Biden passed so much massive legislation compared to Trump doing nothing.

[David]

The only thing I think that was good that Biden did was the chip sack. I don't know any other policy that was beneficial for the United States.

[Destiny]

So, I mean, I would say the American rescue plan helped us significantly come.

[David]

Out of the COVID I'll give you that. But that's.

[Destiny]

I think that the Inflation Reduction Act I thought was nice. It was nice to pass a bill that was actually deficit neutral over 10 years. I think that was nice. Compared to Trump passing tax cuts and destroying the budget more and more every single time he's in office. I would say it's nice.

[David]

What kind of tax cuts?

[Destiny]

The Trump Tax Cuts and Jobs Act.

[David]

Yeah. Who does that benefit?

[Destiny]

Overwhelmingly wealthier people. But how so by giving them a greater absolute and percentage deduction in the amount of income that they have to pay to the federal government.

[David]

Is that according to like IRS data or something?

[Destiny]

I mean, it's to the way the law is written.

[David]

If it's IRS data.

[Destiny]

I don't know about IRS data, but if you look at the way that the tax brackets are adjusted, like the people who are going to save the most money are going to be.

[David]

You can see that reflected in IRS data.

[Destiny]

In IRS data. To look at a marginal tax bracket table and see who's going to save more money.

[David]

Okay, so we had the 2017 Jobs act or the Tax Cuts and Jobs Act. Right. That reduced the income brackets for all earners. You know what it was? Reduced the income brackets like the. Or sorry, the percentage of the income earners pay.

[Destiny]

Like, like comprehensively. I know that each bracket, I think fell by anywhere from like 2 to 3% or something, or 2 to 3 points.

[David]

Individuals earning between 15,000 and 50,000 a year received a tax break between 16 to 26%. Individuals between 50,000 and 100,000, which I consider the average American, got a tax break about 15 to 17%. And the higher you go, the lower it gets.

[Destiny]

So for the bottom people, these people already are.

[David]

This sounds like a progressive tax cut to me.

[Destiny]

Probably not. Real quick. So for the people on the bottom, if you're making 15 to $50,000, your taxes footprint is almost already zero for federal income tax, number one. So also, that's a strange pairing of people to put together making 15,000 years significantly different than making 50,000 a year.

[David]

I mean, that the income tax bracket, sure, that's fine.

[Destiny]

But I'm saying when you're talking about money saved, like the amount of money that the 15,000 a year person is paying in taxes is probably going to be quite a bit different than the 50,000, whether you're talking percentage or anything else. But the fact that there's a massive amount of money that is being returned to wealthy people that is hurting the federal by cutting tax brackets for people that are on the upper echelons of income.

[David]

Well, it's a progressive tax cut. Right? So again, the 15,000 to 50,000 receive a 16 to 26, 50,000 to 100,000 received 15 to 17%, 100,000 to 200 received 10 to 12% above a million. They got 2%. And nobody making more than $2 million in terms of a household received a tax bracket. They actually ended up paying 2% more in tax.

[Destiny]

How did you not receive a tax rate if the marginal tax bracket was reduced?

[David]

Because the individuals above 2 million weren't affected by that. It didn't affect those individuals. They may benefit from it. In corporate taxes, if they're, you know, corporations or whatever the case may be.

[Destiny]

Didn't the top, the top tax bracket came down?

[David]

No, I, I'm telling you what I know based on IRS tax data. Right.

[Destiny]

It doesn't make any sense.

[David]

If you just to clarify, 2017, the.

[Destiny]

Tax bracket came down, tax bracket came down at the top, then it doesn't matter. Right now we're 2 million or tax.

[David]

How are you making that claim?

[Destiny]

Because I know how. Because I file my taxes.

[David]

Okay, so you make more than $2 million and you saw a reduction in your taxes?

[Destiny]

Yes, of course. Because if the tax brackets are falling, then the income that you.

[David]

Well, again, I just told you based on IRS data that you told me.

[Destiny]

Based on an article you read you're reciting me a number, but I'm just telling you that, like, that's not how taxes are.

[David]

Full analysis of IRS data. You can fact check this later on.

[Destiny]

The screen or the majority of the money. The majority of the money that wasn't.

[David]

Paid over $2 billion did not see a tax reduction. Yeah, you're sitting here and telling me that you saw that. I'm asking you through how, like, what loophole did you find?

[Destiny]

It's not a loophole. It's just a reduction in your tax bracket is a reduction in the amount of taxes that you owe to the federal government. When the bracket goes down, you have to.

[David]

You're either you don't make over $2 million, or you're just lying because you got caught in a lie here.

[Destiny]

Do you know how a below the line or above the line deduction works? You have any. Have you ever filed taxes before?

[David]

No. Okay. I'm 29 years old. I don't file taxes.

[Destiny]

Okay, well, when you start to file taxes, you'll know that when you apply the tax brackets to your AGI, to your adjustable gross income, the amount that you owe on that income is going to reduce.

[David]

I forgot. Liberal donuts and humor. So I'll ask you again. Yeah. Individuals with over $2 million household income, how did they. By what mechanic bracket.

[Destiny]

Tell me, by what mechanism would they have been exempted from the reduction in tax brackets?

[David]

Because the income brackets that the act passed did not address the individual. Actually, it addressed the individuals making over $2 million, and they increased the taxes on them by 2%.

[Destiny]

Through what means?

[David]

That. That the tax bracket that they're in for the income of the household. So if they were paying previously 33%, now they were paying 35%.

[Destiny]

So you're telling me that if we look up the Tax Cuts and Jobs act tax bracket change.

[David]

How about this?

[Destiny]

For the bracket that the top one was increased?

[David]

Look up, look up. This is great. This is a nonpartisan source. You can look it up. Use my phone. Perfect.

[Destiny]

I don't know what you're talking about. The tax bracket.

[David]

Okay.

[Destiny]

I'm not crazy. If the tax bracket. If the. If the percentage goes down, then you pay less tax.

[David]

All right. Here. So you can make sure that this is a nonpartisan source for you. I know it's an opinion, Ed, but they cite all their sources. The careful analysis that they did on IRS tax data. How about we start on the fifth paragraph and you can kind of read that for me.

[Destiny]

Okay, well, so we have an article here saying a Careful analysis of the IRS tax data, one that includes the effects of tax credits and other reforms of the tax code, shows that filers with an AGI of 15 to 50k had an average tax cut of 16 to 26% in 2018, the first year that the Tax Cuts and Jobs act went into effect and the most recent year for which data is available. Filers who earned 50 to 100 received a tax rate of 15 to 70%. And the earners of 100 to 500 saw Nagi at adjusted gross income saw their personal income tax cut by around 11 to 13%. By comparison, no income group with an AGI of at least 500,000 received an average tax cut exceeding 9%. And the average tax cut for brackets starting at 1 million was less than 6%. Where's the. Is the $2 million claim in here or. Okay, wait, wait. When it says that, what do you think that means?

[David]

In terms of what?

[Destiny]

When it says, for instance, that filix are earned 50. Or wait, we'll do. No income group with an AGI of at least 500,000 received an average tax cut exceeding 9% and the average tax cut for brackets starting at 1 million was less than 6%.

[David]

And if you keep reading somewhere in there.

[Destiny]

So the. So there were tax cuts for people that earned over $2 million, right?

[David]

I don't know. Does it say that?

[Destiny]

It doesn't have to say that. You could just look at the tax brackets.

[David]

Yes.

[Destiny]

Did they adjust a comprehensive.

[David]

This is an overall the income tax bracket for income houses that are making over $2 million.

[Destiny]

Okay. That's not how that works. I don't know how to explain that to you. Yeah, there might be salt deductions or something. If you cap your state, local tax deductions or if you have other types of taxes, they might impact the amount of money that you save. But the. When the brackets fall, if you just have ordinary income, then it doesn't matter making 2 million or 10 million. Anything over 600k is going to be less than tax that you pay.

[David]

I'm sorry, but is this not a progressive tax cuts that progressive used to champion behind or what would you like to see?

[Destiny]

I'm just looking at the tax brackets.

[David]

I know. What would you like to see that's better? You want to pay more taxes yourself? What?

[Destiny]

No, I. Paying taxes more as an individual doesn't really help much. I think we should probably try to.

[David]

Find our government as in general.

[Destiny]

Yeah, we should fund the government where. I don't think a two point cut on my tax bracket is helping. It's not changing my life significantly. But across every wealthy person in society, it's probably, I imagine hurting people more than helping people. Which is why we see cuts to Medicaid and everything now to fund our.

[David]

Bill says that the working class class and the middle class benefited the most from these tax cuts. Let me ask you.

[Destiny]

Wait, wait, wait.

[David]

You make it.

[Destiny]

What about a cut in benefits?

[David]

We can cover the one big beautiful billion.

[Destiny]

What about a cut in benefits that you were. If you were making 10,000 a year, would you rather have a 50 tax cut or would you rather still have your $6,000 child tax credit?

[David]

Can I ask you, when a household income increases by $5,000, does that benefit Americans?

[Destiny]

It depends on what that that increase comes at a cost of.

[David]

Right. Hey, he received it by having tax cuts an average of $200.

[Destiny]

And they also got that by reducing the child tax. And that wouldn't be a benefit.

[David]

Right. Can I finish like one statement?

[Destiny]

Finish a lot of statements.

[David]

That is true. Touche. But at least I let you finish. You don't let me say a single thing. Honestly.

[Destiny]

Wait, do you think you talk more than me or. I've talked more than you for this conversation?

[David]

I don't know. I think it's pretty equal.

[Destiny]

Absolutely not. You've definitely talked like 1.4 times more than me, but that's okay.

[David]

Oh, is that so? Maybe you should talk a little faster then trying to talk to you as.

[Destiny]

Bad as I can. So you were just agreeing with me that the loss of the child tax credit probably hurts people who might have saved four or five thousand dollars.

[David]

I thought they just reformed the child tax credit. They increased it by about $200, right?

[Destiny]

By 200. They might have. But the child tax credit under Biden was $6,000, I believe for I didn't implement was implemented. But it was only for. I think it was through the COVID year. I think it was for a single year.

[David]

Yeah, it was a loophole in order to be able to reject that. Why didn't they actually. Why didn't they codify that through court?

[Destiny]

Well, they did for one year.

[David]

Why didn't they codify it through Congress?

[Destiny]

I don't know why they did. You had to pass it as part of Congress.

[David]

Okay, why didn't they temporary or more than for a year?

[Destiny]

I don't know. Maybe they know this Cuts and Jobs act permanent instead of making it.

[David]

Well now. Right?

[Destiny]

Well, unless it gets revoked. Parts of it are 10 years. I think parts of it expires. Parts of it are permanent and parts of it 10 years.

[David]

Let's talk about entitlement programs because I think that's one thing that I disagree in the one big beautiful bill. I think that a lot of MAGA recipients are take advantage of. Not take advantage, but recipients of these various programs. Whatever entitlement program there is, I think that it will hurt any Republican, whatever leader, whatever the case may be. If a Trump supporter wakes up in the morning and sees that Instead of getting $400 a month, he's now getting $200. That's going to piss them off. Do you think that is going to happen?

[Destiny]

It's going to piss them off if they're getting more money.

[David]

No, they. Because they're cutting the programs. The idea that CNN propagates all the time is that individuals who rely on these programs are going to see cuts in their monthly paychecks or may not be eligible whatsoever anymore.

[Destiny]

I imagine if you lose your eligibility for Medicaid, you'd probably be upset.

[David]

Yeah. Yeah. So do you think that is the case? That is actually what is going to happen because of this?

[Destiny]

My understanding is that there have been cuts to Medicaid eligibility. I don't know if that was just through new work requirements or what. I didn't see the final version.

[David]

But I mean, do you disagree with that? Is that a bad thing? Like, aren't you reforming essentially entitlement programs in order to make sure that those who actually need them benefit from them while making sure that these programs continuously past 2035 will actually run? So we don't spend $1.4 trillion on just a single program.

[Destiny]

I mean, I would have to check the particular cuts. I haven't done a deep dive into Medicaid in terms of how they cut.

[David]

About $850 billion over the next 10 years. It's about $85 billion annually in cuts. When it comes down to Medicaid, it's not just Medicaid, it's anything regarding health services.

[Destiny]

Sure. But I mean, I think that it's a massive failure that this administration, the one thing that they promised was to balance the budget. And it seems like I've been saying for over a year and now it seems like it's come to fruition that the debt and the deficit will continue to increase. Under Trump, there is, I agree with.

[David]

Regardless, under what administration? The previous administration increased the annual deficit. I think last, the last year when it came down to Trump was like about 800 billion. This administration, the last term that they had was $1.8 trillion, regardless.

[Destiny]

So the deficit was coming down under Biden.

[David]

Given four more years, it went from 1.6 trillion in 2021 to 1.7 trillion in 2022, capping off at 1.8 trillion in 2024.

[Destiny]

I would have to check that again, but I'm pretty sure the number was coming down. So for two or three years, I think there's a couple issues. One is the majority of that deficit. A huge part of it was the massive loss of revenue from the Tax Cuts and Jobs act from Donald Trump.

[David]

So that if we had, like, one of the best years on records when it came down to economic numbers in 2019, it's easy to have really good.

[Destiny]

Years when you're engaged to get massive deficit spending, which is what the Tax Cuts and Jobs act did was a massive cut in taxes. What, Cutting any of the services More.

[David]

Money in their pockets.

[Destiny]

They spend more money.

[David]

Okay.

[Destiny]

What happens when the government spends more money? The government spends more money.

[David]

And inefficiently, both.

[Destiny]

It happened under Trump. The government was spending more money and people were spending more money.

[David]

But how does the government spend the money that they don't have?

[Destiny]

By borrowing.

[David]

Okay, can. Can Americans do that as well?

[Destiny]

Yes, it's called borrowing.

[David]

Yeah. So what is the difference when an American borrows versus the federal government borrows in order to meet whatever ends that they need?

[Destiny]

It depends on a lot of different things. A very complicated financial question.

[David]

It is. I'll say that's a complex, multifaceted question, but the reality is, is that your side wants to make. I don't want to say you specifically, because I like debating people, but one thing that I noticed on the left is that they don't like to go into the nuanced topics. When it comes down to various policy discussions like. Like the ones that you and I are having. I want to say that majority, like 95% of the political commentators or whatever on my side of the aisle. I'll say on your side of the aisle. Don't get into these conversations because they don't know them. And it's almost like a goal for both sides to propagate. Like the top.

[Destiny]

Sure. But I mean, like, the reason why is because people want to obscure what's actually happening. Like, for instance, if you look at the first Trump admin, Trump was running huge deficits that were increasing up till 2019. It was up till. It wasn't just because of COVID He was doing massive spending all on his own.

[David]

Absolutely. I agree.

[Destiny]

Like, his deficits were increasing for no reason. The economy support the Democrat Party.

[David]

Then if they're consistently increasing the deficit as well.

[Destiny]

Democrats for the last. The last person we had with a budget surplus was Clinton. And then after that we had Bush who got us into two massive wars in the Middle East. And then we had after that 2007 financial collapse. And then a Democrat has to come in and clean up the mess. And then we were kind of getting back on track and then Trump came in and Covid happened at the end of Trump's turn. And then Biden had to come in and clean that mess up. And then as things are going to.

[David]

Back up, clean that mess by increasing the deficit spending by almost a trillion dollars.

[Destiny]

So that's the deficit spending happens when you need it, when the economy is like having significant trouble.

[David]

So could there be a the same argument made for right now that we need deficit spending?

[Destiny]

No, because we shouldn't be having any trouble.

[David]

Why is that?

[Destiny]

Because we're artificially creating trouble with tariff inflation.

[David]

Create insane inflation for us because of that?

[Destiny]

No, I think Covid created insane inflation. I think the entire world experiences.

[David]

But what happens when you start to print a lot of money that you don't have?

[Destiny]

If you don't print any of the money, then businesses fail, people go broke and people are starving the streets. I think it's better to have some inflation than it is to literally shoot.

[David]

With congressional Democrats when Trump was president at the peak of COVID that they should have passed $8 trillion more of benefits, depending on where it's going.

[Destiny]

Yeah, I'm not going to fight deficit spending in times of great crises. That's the whole point of spending. That's why we have a fiat currency and a central bank is the ability to do that. But the fact is, is that Trump did a massive tax cut with no paired spending cuts. You agree with that, right?

[David]

In a sense, yes. Because they did increase the annual deficit spending by 300 billion now making it about 2.1 trillion. But the idea is that you do cut where there are inefficiencies and investments.

[Destiny]

That is a myth that needs to.

[David]

Die in the Government Accountability Office. Government Accountability Office is a nonpartisan source. They testify every year in a congressional settings. That means that they testify under oath. And they have consistently said since 2003 that there are more than $60 billion annual in fraud or sorry, non fraud in inefficiency. When it comes down to health services over 10 years, that's $600 billion. So when you cut health services by 800, $600 billion, what are you Cutting there.

[Destiny]

You're cutting health services. You're not cutting the inefficiencies.

[David]

Well, the Government Accountability Office tells us that it's not just the government Accountability.

[Destiny]

Doesn'T tell us that. It doesn't make any sense.

[David]

They testify every single year.

[Destiny]

They don't. Just because you cut. If you have $100 billion in fraud and you cut $100 billion in spending, you're not just cutting the fraud, you're probably fraud by 5 billion.

[David]

They're not just cutting the system. I'd agree with you. If they just cut the spending. Right. But didn't they reform it? Perform what then they add work requirements for Medicaid.

[Destiny]

Medicare is like when you're thinking about.

[David]

Annual verifications, who's saying that that.

[Destiny]

Would that solve all the fraud or what?

[David]

Well, this is what the Government Accountability Office recommends us. So I said not just the Government Accountability Office, but the Centers for Medical and. Medical and Centers and Services. That's what they testified to us. These two sources are nonpartisan. You have the inspector general under whatever administration recovering billions of dollars of fraud in health services or in Medicaid alone. Sorry, that is. That's happening, right?

[Destiny]

Sure. I mean it probably. I imagine it's always happening. We've had a Government Accountability Office form.

[David]

The system and you cut their spending.

[Destiny]

If you want to find a way to do that, then you can do that. There's going to be some level of fraud in literally every system ever. Let's just by percentage is a numbers game. That's always going to be the case.

[David]

I agree. But we should do everything that we can to prevent that. Right.

[Destiny]

We want. If the, if conservatives are serious about funding the government and we're conservatives, we're serious about like combating fraud or whatever, then we would fund our IRS more. The IRS says that there's like 400 to 600 billion with a b dollars of money out there every year that's owed to it that it can't. It doesn't have the resources to go out and get. But the first thing Republicans do.

[David]

What do you mean they don't have the resources? Biden administration give them plenty of resources to go after.

[Destiny]

There was supposed to be an authorization, I think of 80,000 also.

[David]

What is.

[Destiny]

I think there was supposed to be an authorization of 80,000 new agents. And I think that's been trimmed back to either nothing or they did it without.

[David]

They had about two years of running these operations with a massive increase.

[Destiny]

I don't think that all of the new hires and everything ever got Fully implemented because they had to negotiate away. But I'm just saying that like that would be the first place that you would start. It would be your irs.

[David]

Why do we need IRS to go after health service inefficient health service payments?

[Destiny]

Why don't you.

[David]

Why don't you have the HHS department go out.

[Destiny]

I imagine there's probably a lot of integration between these departments when it comes to tracking payments and figuring out, you know, like who's up to no good. Like I'm sure Medicare and I'm sure Social Security rely on collaboration with the IRS to do a lot of the tracking to some extent. And so having the communication is good. So the IRS could track it better. They could probably refer to the other agencies better.

[David]

I'm sure there's communication between all the departments in order to find the inefficiency or whatever the case may be. Right.

[Destiny]

So we should fund the irs.

[David]

Right. Why should we fund IRS so that.

[Destiny]

They can go after.

[David]

Wait, wait, wait one second. Are they defunded or something like that?

[Destiny]

Yes, they're underfunded. They're underfunded.

[David]

What is underfunded? Me.

[Destiny]

As in there is money out there. As in if we were to spend a dollar on the irs, we would make more than a dollar back by them going after money that they know is owed to them but they don't have the resources to chase down.

[David]

Oh, and abuse average Americans to go after it.

[Destiny]

An abuse to play tax.

[David]

We're talking about entitlement programs.

[Destiny]

Talking about IRS knowing that there is.

[David]

Why do you from taxes being owed to fraud and health services.

[Destiny]

People are screaming about fraud. That would require an insanely intricate approach I would imagine to reform an entire system to cut down $60 billion are by reforming the. But we're serious about making more money for the government. I think you would do the easy thing first.

[David]

Well, let's see how reform to the system works. If there's any reason to have IRS agents be funded in order to go after more fraud that they're not able to recover back.

[Destiny]

Whether you have a friendly $20 bet right now that in four years there will be no major reforms to any of these systems because it's just lip service that you're paying to the Trump admin.

[Sean Kelly]

Okay, all right.

[Destiny]

But just fund the irs. Go after the money. It's easy. That's easy money to get in business. I think they call it the 820.

[David]

Average American so they to use their taxpayers money to fund the IRS more.

[Destiny]

Do you think that you shouldn't Pay any taxes at all or no?

[David]

Well, I don't think that there's a reason.

[Destiny]

If you're an average American and you pay your taxes, I would want other people to be paying their taxes as well. So, yeah, I would want my money to make sure that everybody else is paying their tax.

[David]

Like, I don't like to hire more IRS agents or give the IRS more money in order to go and identify an efficiency in entitlement programs. But I have an inspector general's office in the hhs. I have an inspector.

[Destiny]

Wait, wait. Do you think they would be more resource efficient to reform an entire agency with no guarantee that all the property even disappear versus just hiring more agents in an agency that already makes you money?

[David]

Absolutely. I think that reforming the system is much better than funding some inefficient agency that is allowing this to happen in the first place. And you're telling me why do you.

[Destiny]

Think they're out of the way or.

[David]

Why do you think they're suddenly going.

[Destiny]

To become efficiently inefficient?

[David]

You're suddenly, you're telling me that suddenly. Because we'll give them more money and stop more people. They're going to become efficient. All of a su.

[Destiny]

You. What you're saying is inefficient when you.

[David]

Have 80 billion, sorry, $60 billion of fraud in. In inefficiency. When it comes down to health services that the Government Accountability Office tells us that means somebody's not doing their job.

[Destiny]

What'S their yearly revenue? Who or how much money do they spend yearly? Any of the. When you say 60 billion, this is against the 1.6 trillion or whatever that you mentioned earlier.

[David]

Well, Medicaid's like $800 billion, right? Okay, so when do you have about 50? I. I don't know exactly what it is. For Medicaid alone, this is all health service. And if it's all of health, is.

[Destiny]

That including Medicare as well? No. Okay, so just Medicare. So all of your health services is in excess of 1 trillion because the fraud rate is like 4 or 5%. I mean, what is the average fraud rate? What do you expect there to be there?

[David]

Well, here, here's the problem. I agree with you that it's low, but if we're able to recover that, then we can finally save these entitlement programs?

[Destiny]

Answer.

[David]

Well, how are you 2032?

[Destiny]

It's very easy. By giving them money and funding them. What do you mean?

[David]

Where are you going to take the money from?

[Destiny]

From the tax proceeds that you get from your citizens.

[David]

You are going to increase the taxes on Americans.

[Destiny]

What I'm asking you is how are you, how do you even know that you can get rid of. What do you think the. Do you think it's realistic of zero fraud?

[David]

No.

[Destiny]

Okay, so if the fraud is at 5% and we know that if we just throw more money at the irs, it'll make the government more money by enforcing already existing tax code. We don't have to reform a whole department. Why would we try to reform for tens or hundreds of billions of dollars, why would we try to reform an entire department in the hopes that the fraud rate goes down and we don't have a guarantee of that versus just funding where we know there's easy money to get?

[David]

Well, the reform looks like through WARF requirements. Right. So that's, that's good.

[Destiny]

I mean, that's not reform. That's just like an extra policy that's.

[David]

Reforming the system in order to make sure that it continuously is able to be there after 2032.

[Destiny]

Work requirements is not getting rid of fraud. That sounds like it's just changing who qualifies for the program.

[David]

Okay, okay. What about the biannual verification?

[Destiny]

It's like a good implementation. Sure.

[David]

Okay.

[Destiny]

I don't know how much fraud that.

[David]

How do you think that individuals are able to commit fraud in the first place? And let's say Medicare, I don't know.

[Destiny]

Medicare, I think fraud is very difficult. Medicaid, I think. I mean, you could probably lie. You can get paid under the table.

[David]

And imagine stuff like that. So biannual verifications can probably determine at least lower the amount of fraud that is happening on a fuel.

[Destiny]

You have to counterbalance it with how much the system costs per sandwich.

[David]

So let's see how a year of this reform, I don't know if you want to call it a reform, works out. And if it doesn't work, then we can possibly look at. Well, sure, but extra funding for various agencies that will actually go and tackle this stuff, I guess.

[Destiny]

But like again, you're talking 60 billion. So even if they solve 100% the problem, it would be one tenth of what the IRS could.

[David]

I want you to think about this. Over the next 10 years, that's $600 billion just in one program. And when we're talking about programs running out of money by 2032 or them costing us $1.4 trillion to run on an annual basis, it seems like it's a good step to try and recover and to reform the system as much as you can to ensure that the program actually continues on.

[Destiny]

Sure. And I would say that in business, you learn the 8020 rule, which is you put if there's a thing that'll increase Your revenue by 80%, it only requires 20% of the effort. You focus on that issue first. You don't focus on these, like, hedge issues. And you said over 10 years, 600 billion. Over 10 years, the IRS could be saving us potentially 6 trillion if we just staff that formerly.

[David]

According to.

[Destiny]

I want to go see according to the irs.

[Sean Kelly]

We got to wrap up on this note, guys. But comment below who you think won.

[Destiny]

Thanks for.

[Sean Kelly]

Thanks for your time, gentlemen. Appreciate it. Until you next time.