← Digital Social Hour
Digital Social Hour
Destiny vs Myron Gaines: EXPLOSIVE Debate on Israel-Palestine | DSH #1447
01:32:52
Loading summary
Transcript715 lines
- [00:01]
A
The wait is over. Dive into Audible's most anticipated collection, the best of 2025. Featuring top audiobooks, podcasts, and originals across all genres, our editors have carefully curated this year's must listens. From brilliant hidden gems to the buzziest new releases, every title in this collection has earned its spot. This is your go to for the absolute best in 2025 audio entertainment. Whether you love thrillers, romance or non, your next favorite listen awaits. Discover why there's more to imagine when.
- [00:36]
B
You listen@audible.com BestOfTheYear like, regardless of what you feel, Trump is politically fucking retarded. Like, he picks way too many fights. He can't focus on anything he doesn't know how to get. Like, PR wins the biggest. That I have to do. What you mean when the left, like, fights against him? Like, ICE is important. Like a border is important. Having, like, an actual immigration policy where we know who's in the country. Like, these are important things.
- [00:56]
A
And because it's so progressive, like the Alaev's an immigrant.
- [00:59]
B
Like, immigrant. I feel fucking unhinged. Like, I see where people are coming from.
- [01:04]
Okay, guys, we are live. We are at Student Action Summit. We got Destiny and Myron here today. Have a little friendly conversation.
- [01:09]
A
Yeah, man. Good to see you, bro.
- [01:11]
B
Hey, good to see you.
- [01:11]
A
It's been a while.
- [01:12]
B
Glad to reunite you guys. I know you guys.
- [01:13]
A
I think I'm probably the only concern that Destiny doesn't hate.
- [01:16]
B
Yeah. Is that true that I don't hate? Yeah, I hate a lot of people. It's hard to say. It's hard to keep track of them all these days. So, you know, we'll see after the debate today if he hates you or not.
- [01:23]
A
Israel. This is like, what, like our fifth or sixth time now? So now, man, we've always been cordial.
- [01:28]
B
Let's do Israel, Palestine. Let's start off with positions, and then.
- [01:31]
A
We'Ll go from there. Okay. You want to give your position first or.
- [01:34]
B
Yeah.
- [01:34]
A
What?
- [01:34]
B
Can we be a little bit more specific? I guess the recent.
- [01:36]
A
Like, your position on, I guess, Israel, Palestine in general, or should we talk.
- [01:40]
B
About the recent events or just overall?
- [01:42]
A
Yeah, I mean, I guess I could start with my overall position and then we can go into specificities, I guess, with maybe the last conflict that one happened.
- [01:50]
B
I mean, there's like, big parts of you've got the recent war, whether it's a genocide, you've got. Is Israel. Do they have a right to exist? It's like a nation of Jewish people. You've got us and Israel entanglement Like, where do you want to.
- [02:01]
A
Okay, I guess I'll kind of come from the position. I think we should stop all aid to Israel in the United States. My position is I don't think we should be giving them aid, and there's a multitude of reasons for that, but that's my position in general is we should not be giving any more foreign aid to Israel.
- [02:16]
B
Okay. My position would be, I think that the Middle east region is still probably an important region to have influence over.
- [02:21]
A
Okay.
- [02:22]
B
For purposes of, like, oil shipment and oil refining and also for trade to the Suez Canal. So I feel like having a lot of influence in that region is important, and if we leave, then we're kind of just giving it up to somebody else.
- [02:33]
A
Okay, good points. I would say with the Suez Canal, we kind of already have that under control because we've basically bribed Egypt by, you know, giving them a lot of aid, you know, to play nice with Israel. And then as far as, you know, maintaining security in the region, we're cool with pretty much everybody else. Saudi Arabia, Qatar, the countries that have some real influence, especially Saudi Arabia. So I would say, you know, I think Israel's hurt us quite a bit in the region versus assist us. I know, you know, people say, oh, well, they're our greatest ally or whatever. I think we. They don't. Doesn't have to be Israel. I think there's other Middle Eastern countries that we can work with that wouldn't create as much of a tumultuous situation we have in the Middle East. Can I have a pen and paper, too, if that's cool?
- [03:11]
B
Yeah, yeah. I just. I don't see who, like, you mentioned that we're cool with, like, Saudi Arabia and other countries in Egypt as well. I think a lot of that is a function of probably Israel's strength. For better or for worse. Over the past six months, they have managed to fuck up basically every other regional opponent. And I think that even though publicly they have to pay lip service to, you know, chastising Israel over the Palestinian issue, Saudi Arabia and everybody else is happy to watch Iran basically get this shit pushed in. The people in Lebanon are big fans of Hezbollah. They're happy to watch their shit get pushed in. Yemen is perpetually fucked. So no one, no one anywhere cares about what's going on there. So I feel like even though right now, obviously we made nice with Egypt and Israel so that they would make nice with each other if we were to extricate from there and then pull all of our support out, I Just I see like the possibility of like a Russia or a China coming in and then playing nice with them and then obviously the incentives change dramatically and I would be worried about losing that. Yeah. Influence there.
- [04:01]
A
Okay, I see your, I see your position. I think going back to you said that Israel having being a powerhouse there, I don't think they are as much as you think. It's, you know, it's either we destabilize other countries or we bribe them. Right. So like with Jordan and Egypt we pay them quite a bit of money to play nice with Israel. Right. Because that saves us money in the long run because at least the two countries on their border, on the south and in the west, you know, we don't have to worry about them like invading and attacking them. Obviously got the problems in the north of Lebanon. But I do think a big part of the reason why we have these alliances is really more for us to you know, pay these people off so they don't attack Israel. Whereas like if Israel wasn't there, we wouldn't have to, you know, be bribing these guys to give them money so they don't attack Israel. So it's either we destabilize and destroy them or we bribe them with money like we did with Jordan.
- [04:46]
B
And I mean to be fair though, we call them bribes. That came after Israel won basically four wars against all of these countries with our aid. Not until 73 like Israel 148 basically on their own. They the Suz crisis in 56 they went on their own in 67.
- [05:01]
A
They kind of lost the Suez Canal crisis. So they kind of got ran out.
- [05:04]
B
They. No, absolutely not.
- [05:05]
A
The Suez Canal Crisis.
- [05:06]
B
Absolutely.
- [05:06]
A
The U.S. told them you got to leave.
- [05:07]
B
Exactly. They got ran out. The US told them to off.
- [05:10]
A
Yeah, yeah.
- [05:10]
B
It's not because Egypt beat him. Nasser and Egypt would try to claim later on that they did but it' the US told them like hey you guys are.
- [05:15]
A
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
- [05:16]
B
Because saying that like they, they had the military might. They beat everybody around them like France.
- [05:20]
A
And they had the UK with them as well and they, and they, you.
- [05:23]
B
Know, they were getting 3 billion dollar yearly drops like they get now from the United States.
- [05:27]
A
Well, yeah, but, and that's the thing.
- [05:28]
B
Like, but also like all the Arab states were getting helped by the Soviet Union. Everything too. Like they were constantly resupplying these guys. They had an interest there.
- [05:35]
A
Well so with the Suez Canal crisis, right, like we obviously this was a better time because back then we didn't really have a side as much Right. Eisenhower told him, get the hell out of there or else there's going to be some serious problems. They got out of there. And I would say the Suez Canal crisis created the nuclear arms race, because after Israel had that embarrassing situation, they went ahead and, you know, got the nuclear bomb. They have it illegally, which I find kind of hilarious, that they try to tell Iran that they can't have nukes when they have an illegal nuclear program.
- [06:00]
B
Yeah. I mean, if you ask anybody in the world, who would you rather have nukes, Israel or Iran? Like, even. Even Persians, Even the Iranian people are like, yeah, probably better with this.
- [06:08]
A
Well, here's the thing. I mean, we also said that, oh, you know, North Korea can have nuclear weapons. But what ended up happening, you know, Trump met with him, they shook hands, he went into North Korea. You know, nuclear weapons are deterrent. I think they create quite a bit of peace.
- [06:20]
B
And the only issue is North Korea doesn't really do, like, the proxy terrorism like Iran does, like Hezbollah with the Houthis with Hamas. And I think North Korea is kept on a short leash because China's right there. And China doesn't want to see North Korea fuck around because it's going to reflect poorly on them. Iran doesn't really have the same, I think, kind of leash on them.
- [06:34]
A
Sure. But my position is that, like, nuclear weapons, like, deter people. And my thing is, I. Here's my thing. I think every country should be able to exercise sovereignty and the ability to, you know, protect themselves. If Israel is going to run an illegal nuclear program, then Iran, you know, as one of their adversaries. I don't. I see why they're doing what they're doing. And I will say that, you know, our assistance of Israel has actually made the nuclear problem worse. Right. We had the nuclear. Iran, the nuclear deal, which I think was, you know, something that the Obama administration actually did well and we pulled out of it, and that created a lot of problems for us.
- [07:07]
B
And I agree with that. Trump did pull out of it. It was really bad.
- [07:10]
A
It was. Look, you know me, I like Trump, but I will criticize when he makes mistakes. And that was a fatal flaw. And I think that's kind of led to the bad foreign policy that we have now. I think it's one of the biggest mistakes he made, foreign policy wise. And, you know, that was the Israel lobby, right?
- [07:22]
B
Yeah. I mean, I feel like at the end of the day, I mean, I think we backed the right horse. I mean, Saddam Hussein is out. I mean, Iraq is, like, chugging along assad is out. Syria is heading in a direction that's probably going to be markedly more pro west and more anti Russia. The only player left is really Iran. Somehow Israel, through the fucking gift of God or whatever, has killed like every single adversarial military leader and everything else.
- [07:41]
A
Over the past six months, which causes us problems as well. I mean, in the 73 war that you mentioned before, how they won that one, like they won that one by blackmailing us with, with bombing the Arab world with a nuclear bomb.
- [07:53]
B
Yeah.
- [07:55]
You know. Yeah. The third temple has fallen, I think from Dosha. Yeah, yeah. No, you got to agree on that. But I'm just saying that like, at the end of the day, like Saudi Arabia, all the most of the Gulf states are happy to have Israel as a friend versus Iran, who's going to be competing with them, blowing shit up constantly. Like, they don't like those people very much, you know? You know, you've got like, like everybody would just prefer to see a strong Israel in the region versus a strong Iran in the region who's like, causes trouble for everybody, you know.
- [08:18]
A
Yeah. So when it comes to Saudi Arabia, I actually agree with you on that. I've said this forever, that like the Gulf states are cucks for Israel. They just secretly do things behind the scenes. They just don't do it publicly. Yeah. Because obviously they would be looked at poorly. But I also do think that a big reason why these Gulf states play so nicely is because the United States backs Israel. So in other words, Israel wouldn't be doing the things that they do and having the reckless foreign policy that they do, assassinating scientists and doing all the things they do all across the Middle east. If it wasn't for us backing them. And I think by us backing them, it's created us quite a bit of problems here where, you know, look, I'm critical of Islam too. I know that you're extremely critical of Islam. I grew up Muslim and I even say all the time that Islam is incompatible with the first world country, world America.
- [08:57]
B
I don't believe that. I don't think I'm, I'm not incompatible with America. I'm more critical with Islam than I am of Christianity.
- [09:02]
A
You're critical of all. But I know that like Islam you talked about. Well, I don't know if it was you, but I know other people have said that it's not compatible with the first world democracy.
- [09:08]
B
Okay, just because I downplay. I don't think religion has much to do with like the Middle Eastern stuff for the past, like 50 years. So a lot of people don't like that. Take it does.
- [09:15]
A
It does play a lot into it. But. But the point I'm trying to make is, is that, you know, I don't think they hate us because we're Americans is what I'm trying to get at here.
- [09:22]
B
Iran.
- [09:23]
A
Well, the Middle east in general. The entire Middle East.
- [09:25]
B
Oh, no, they have plenty of good reasons to not like us.
- [09:26]
A
Yeah. But, yeah, it's because of our, A lot of our interventionalist foreign policy, which is to benefit Israel. So my argument is simply almost every, you know, terrorist attack that we've had to endure has been because of our really bad foreign policy to benefit Israel. And I just don't see the, the benefit there for us as the United States.
- [09:42]
B
We want to see the benefit, but we don't see the detriment if we would have lost there. Right. Like, imagine all of those states were hostile to us. You know, what would open.
- [09:48]
A
I don't think it would be, man.
- [09:49]
B
Why not?
- [09:50]
A
Where? So I, I think if we didn't have this, like, crazy interventionalist foreign policy at the benefit of Israel, I don't think they would hate us like that, man. Like, like, you look, you can look at these Gulf states that have, they have money. These other Arab countries would probably been able to have stable economies, utilize their, their oil and other resources, have some.
- [10:08]
B
Money and, like, didn't exist or. Because I would say, like, if Israel wasn't there at all, not to make some argument on whether we kill all the Jews, whatever. Like, let's say it wasn't there at all. Yeah, I feel like they would all just be fighting each other because I feel like prior to, like, Israel being there kind of gave them a central enemy to kind of, like, fight for a while. But prior to that, when Britain was carving up after World War I, you had, like, the Mandate, you had, like, the Turkish Revolution. You had Egypt, like one of their own state. Like, everybody kind of had their own state. People were kind of, like, vying for influence and, you know, like, it sounds like, you know. Yeah.
- [10:36]
A
So, like, I've always been critical with, with, you know, the Arab world. Like, they need dictators and monarchs for a reason. Right. But I do think as far as, like, us and our relationship with them, I don't think it would be as bad as it is if it weren't for all of our interventionalism on behalf of Israel.
- [10:51]
B
Let's say that, like, Iran falls tomorrow, and let's say it's not. Let's say it's replaced by something stable. Ish. Right. Or it's not, it doesn't.
- [10:56]
A
Like, what do you think? One, this could be the next topic. I think that our, our move into Iran, I think it was an L for us. I think the United States and Israel took a L with that conflict. I don't know what your position is. If you want to.
- [11:10]
B
I'm a major proponent of not having a nuclear armed Iran, so I was okay with it.
- [11:14]
A
Okay.
- [11:14]
B
Yeah. But I mean, like, I don't like the way that we got there though. Right. I would say that exiting the nuclear deal was really bad.
- [11:20]
A
Yeah.
- [11:21]
B
Israel loved that and Saudi Arabia loved that because they fucking hated us when we signed the nuclear deal with Iran.
- [11:25]
A
Yeah. Then Saudi Arabia, they're cool with Iran now. They've, they've opened back diplomatic relations. They're cool now.
- [11:30]
B
I mean, they have. Yeah. But I mean like these guys are diametrically opposed to each other in terms of interest. Like, Iran backs the Houthis a lot. Saudi Arabia tried for like three years to bomb and get rid of all of them. They. Yeah, like, I don't think they.
- [11:39]
A
Yeah, people don't talk about how Saudi Arabia has been killing Yemenis for years and you know, they've. It's.
- [11:44]
B
Yeah, yeah.
- [11:44]
A
Terrible.
- [11:46]
B
So.
- [11:46]
A
And I've been critical of the Saudi Arabian government for that too.
- [11:48]
B
Yeah, I, I guess I'm just. So I'm thinking like, if Iran were to fall and that whole region were to be like friendly, ish, basically to the United States, that just seems like a really good state of affairs for us. Because aside from Iran, like, who would give us trouble there?
- [12:01]
A
Well, I think the only reason they give us trouble is because of a foreign policy. Right. So like, I think it's better to just like not, you know, give Israel all this aid and like a whole.
- [12:11]
B
Region being friendly towards us. But there's like an issue still with Iran. You think we should just exit completely and risk losing the entire region to Russia, China, India?
- [12:19]
A
No, I see your perspective. What I'm trying to say is like the Arab world really doesn't like us. Like, so. Okay, I'll give you an example. So like when Biden was in, right, Like Saudi Arabia was flirting with bricks, right. And it took Trump going over there, right. Playing off like, I'm not friends with Netanyahu, went over there, met with, you know, the leader of Syria, Alshara, AKA former Al Qaeda guy. You know, we'll lift the sanction off you and then we'll meet with the, you know, we'll go, they give him the jet or whatever. Like.
- [12:44]
We almost lost Saudi Arabia to Brics. And my argument, my bottom line is that, like, and I think you would agree with this, Saudi Arabia just does what's best for Saudi Arabia.
- [12:50]
B
Like, I mean, like, who would you rather have access to? The United States? Who's, like, signal that they're going to have a strong interventionalist policy or, like, when it comes to defending your interests or somebody like Russia, you know, when Putin sits by and watches Gaddafi getting raped by bayonets, or sits by and watches Assad's regime completely and totally collapse, or watches, you know, Syria be involved in a Civil War for 10 years, or watches Iran crumble because Russia can't handle its own war right now. Like, it feels like the US Is a good ally to have in your corner, and then we can defend and ensure trade. You know, like, let's say, like, the Houthis were up to their, you know, shenanigans, and it wasn't the US that was interested in that region. Let's say it was fucking China or Russia. Like, who's to say that the Suez would have ever opened again? Like, would they have had the capability to even send ships down there to Inter. Does Russia even have a fleet anymore? They would have.
- [13:30]
A
They would have. But my, my bottom line is that, like, the Saudis and a lot of these Muslim countries are these Arab countries, they already don't like us because of our policy. Right.
- [13:36]
B
Like, I disagree. I feel like they like us quite a bit. I think they're right. I think that's why most of them, like, people, like, tried to hype up that Abraham Accord shit. But I think that, like, most countries are like, listen, the fighting shit is gay. Let's just like, move on and like, build up and make it.
- [13:48]
A
But the Israel accords, like, kind of led to, like, all of these problems. Like, it was, it was one of the. Is it was one of the reasons why, you know, we had the altercation that we had, but to go back real quick to the, to the Iran thing. So I think it was a monumental failure. And I'll give you my position real quick, and you can tell me what you think. The reason why I think it was a monumental failure is because unless you affect regime change, everything else was a waste of time. And I would argue that we made them stronger by intervening, because what ended up happening was they survived the assassinations with their generals. They survived the precise attacks with the nuclear scientists. They did, they did. But the Ayatollah is Still alive. They still have their military attack to a degree. Yes. They were weakened. Yes. Mossad did a fantastic operation, getting behind enemy lines and destroying air defense and jamming radars. Fantastic. But they did all that and, you know, showed their cards and they couldn't effectuate the regime change because they were hoping that by them, you know, doing all this, it would make the balocs or one of these other, you know, you know, rebel groups say, let's go in and, like, take over. And they didn't do it. Actually, the opposite happened. It united the country. The people that were critical of the theocracy, right, were like, you know what? We need to get behind the government. Because, yes, we don't like the Ayatollah, but we hate Israel even more. So, like, when they had these funeral processions, like, there was, like, thousands of people out there, like, saying, yes, yes, yes. So, like, we actually. It was an L for us because we actually ignited their nationalism. And then, like, the other problem also is, like, within. And I got this from, like, an insider that, like, understands Iranian politics. I didn't know this, like, in their government, right, there's like, the reformists, which would be, like, their Democrats, and then they're conservatives, they're Republicans. And there was a lot of fighting in between, like, hey, diplomacy with the west or no diplomacy. And basically what happened was when Israel attacked with Operation Rising Lions, they said, you know what? Fuck it, we're going to hit them hard. And then they just started hitting Tel Aviv super hard. That's why we saw, you know, them being able to attack a lot of strategic sites, hit their intel bases. And obviously Israel withheld this because they didn't want anyone to know that they're being hit. But it's coming out now that they are actually hit pretty hard. Tel Aviv got destroyed. Not all the way, but it got significantly damaged.
- [15:45]
B
Definitely not. There were a couple of missiles that fell, but not significantly damaged.
- [15:48]
A
Oh, dude, they did.
- [15:49]
B
They did.
- [15:49]
A
I'm telling you, there was a. There was a ban on. And I'll show you after. After the debate, like, and that's why I design, like, Western media and Israeli media purposely made sure any, like, journalists that took pictures or document anything, there was a chance of them going to jail because they didn't want Iranian intelligence to get precise coordinates of where they were being hit for obviously opposite reasons. Then on top of that, we know Israel, you know, there was don't, like.
- [16:12]
B
Report on, like, where.
- [16:13]
A
They also didn't want pandemonium to.
- [16:14]
B
Two main reasons. Like, there's Some. It's Tel Aviv. It's the first world country. Everybody's got a cell phone. Like, you're never hiding.
- [16:18]
A
Yeah, yeah, of course. And people do put it out, like there's still video, but I'm saying, like, like actual journalists, they were getting in trouble for it.
- [16:24]
B
I don't, I don't dis agree with this idea that, that we're making.
- [16:28]
A
Just to finish real quick. Yeah, yeah, to finish my position. So, you know, we united the country. The regime is still in power. All we've done is emboldened them to get the nuclear weapons even more so now because they're like, now we need a nuclear bomb. Right. They kicked IAEA out. Which iaea?
- [16:42]
B
The IA International Atomic Association.
- [16:45]
A
Yeah. Long story short, they were supplying us with information about their nuclear capabilities. Now they're gone. The last person actually just left today from Iran. They kicked them out. So we have no oversight of their. Of their nuclear program. And me and you both agree that leaving a nuclear deal was absolutely stupid. So now we have nothing. And I think that if anything, since we didn't get rid of the regime and they've mastered this, the cycle, the centrifuge cycle, they're going to get another nuclear bomb. And let's assume. Let's assume we go off what Trump and Hexa said one or two years behind. Well, so what? The regime is there. They have the capability to build another nuclear bomb, is my position. So I think that us intervening. We spent billions of dollars to help defend Israel, to bomb their nuclear facilities, and they're just going to rebuild it.
- [17:24]
B
I mean, like, when it comes to an overall comprehensive view of what the Middle east should look like and what our approach to Iran should be, I'm not going to argue that our view right now is incomprehensible. One of my biggest complaints about Trump is I don't think he's a mind for politics or foreign affairs or anything. I don't think he has, like, an overall. Like, if you ask Trump, like, what do you think the Middle east should look like? He probably just draw like an Israeli flag over every country or something. Like, the guy's a fucking idiot when it comes to that. So, like, our overall. Yeah, yeah, our overall approach is definitely, like, incoherent. But, I mean, given a list of bad options, I would say Iran not having access to nuclear weapons is something that not only we prefer, but every single actor in the region would prefer. It's just very scary when you've got an actor that takes so much like Overt effort to fuck with other countries. You know, whether it's expeditionary force in Iraq, whether it's Hezbollah in Syria and obviously in Lebanon, whether it's Hamas, whether it's the Houthis. Like, they just, they have their fingers in so many different things. And then for them to be completely and totally safe from any attack now because Israel can't really attack them if they have a nuclear weapon, things get way more weird at that point.
- [18:23]
I just, I think any world where they don't have a nuclear weapon is beneficial to the stability of the region, the stability of the planet, and literally every interest that we have in the region, both country interest and like trade and oil and everything else.
- [18:33]
A
So I would agree with you that them having a nuclear weapon is bad. I actually agree with you.
- [18:37]
B
Let's say that you keep arguing, like, on their perspective. If I was Iran, I would be barreling towards a nuclear weapon. So I understand their perspective ever since Syria fell. I think that was a huge signal to Iran where it's like, okay, well, fucking especially because. And I'm not a fan. I'm not a fan of anything happening right now, but, like, Trump did them kind of dirty because I'm pretty sure that attack from Israel came what, like, it was like two or one day after the.
- [18:57]
A
It was right before. Hit him on like a Thursday or Friday. This was me Sunday. Yeah.
- [19:00]
B
And it was like the problem.
- [19:01]
A
Diplomacy.
- [19:02]
B
Yeah. But. But I don't even know if this country does diplomacy right now. I don't know. We're 90 days, 90 trade deals. We have zero so far, like, everything. Foreign affairs, wise as fuck. So, yeah, I think that Iran has every incentive right now to continue towards.
- [19:14]
A
And I think we push them that way because I agree with you, them having a nuclear weapon is bad. But I think, like, we had the ability to, to have control of it.
- [19:23]
B
But we don't have the leadership already. One thing that we have to counterbalance is like. So I, I fully believe that Israeli and US Interest is aligned in a lot of ways. I know you might not agree with.
- [19:32]
A
That, but they are in many ways.
- [19:34]
B
But Israel also has interests that. Are they more aggressive? Yes. They're not aligned with the United States. So, for instance, the United States, regardless of what any retard says, the United States does not want regime change in Iran. Israel absolutely wants regime change in Iran.
- [19:46]
A
I think they would be okay with it, but they're not willing to put boots on our ground.
- [19:49]
B
We would be okay with it insofar as, like, maybe because Israel wants it, but the reality is like a collapse in Iran could lead to all sorts of traffic. It could be over anti Iraq into.
- [19:58]
A
Afghanistan and I would argue the base like saying like no fucking wars like that. I think that stalled his like decision making. Like, oh man, I need more time. I think you would have been way more into this conflict if the base didn't rebel so bad because.
- [20:11]
B
Totally. Yeah, because. Because Israel is full steam ahead on that. If the US is like regime change, Israel's like, we've already got like 5,000 Mossad, you know, in place. Well, that's why Mike Waltz got fired.
- [20:19]
A
Because. Because he wanted to have a plan where they literally put boots on the ground and they were going to send special forces into these nuclear facilities and really like try to get shit going.
- [20:27]
B
Sure.
- [20:27]
A
So. But yeah, yeah, yeah, I think it was a failure on my end. I think from a US Israeli position, it was a failure because our goal was like, we don't want them to have nuclear weapons. We embolded them and we nationalize them where they're now.
- [20:38]
B
They're patriots pushing offer. Right. Let's say if. Do you think that the world is a better place if Iran has like starts to have nuclear weapons in a month or in two weeks?
- [20:45]
A
No. It'll create problems. But I'm arguing my position isn't that them having nukes is, is bad. I think them having.
- [20:51]
B
So isn't that having nukes and like if having nukes in two weeks would be really bad, is it pushing it like six months? Isn't that. Well, I know we did it happen. Now we have to work what we have now. Do you think them having nukes in two weeks is better than them having nukes maybe six to 12 months from now?
- [21:03]
A
I think they can get them faster.
- [21:05]
B
Well, I mean a lot of their stockpiles have been blown up. A lot of their centrifuges have been blown up.
- [21:08]
A
Like it's going to be, you know, a lot of the uranium was got out. You know, multiple reputable sources are saying around 400 kilos was snuck out. I would not be surprised if they didn't have other clandestine operations going on knowing that they were going to get hit. I mean their three main nuclear facilities, the whole world knew about it. I would be shocked if they didn't have.
- [21:25]
B
I'd be more shocked if they were to hide them from all the infiltrated Mossad in their country. I felt like Israel would have known and told us.
- [21:31]
A
Well, they just busted another ring today. Sure, the IRGC busted another ring today. So again My thing is, I think our bad foreign policy has kind of led us down this road where it's like, now they're saying the worst option, let's go ahead and get nuclear weapons. Like, we could have totally avoided this if we didn't have the nefarious influence of Israel saying we don't want a nuclear deal because they're going to build nuclear weapons anyway. It's. The real reason is that Israel wants regime change and they want to be the hegemon.
- [21:55]
B
But I would say the fault there is Trump, because Israel didn't want the nuclear deal with Senator Obama. So, I mean, like, yeah, I would agree with you.
- [22:00]
A
I think. I think him pulling out of the nuclear deal because of, you know, Israeli lobby pressure was a big fucking mistake.
- [22:06]
B
Huge. Huge.
- [22:07]
A
But, like, I think from our perspective, I think it was. L. I know you're saying, hey, we pushed it back. I think if anything, if we did push them back, their resolve is greater. They're going to. Now they're definitely going to get a nuclear weapon, and we've just made everything worse for everybody in the region.
- [22:20]
B
Okay. I think that's my position on it. You two agree on a lot. It sounds like.
- [22:24]
A
Well, yeah, I mean. Yeah, I mean, I still. I still think we should cut. Do you think we should give eight to them?
- [22:30]
B
Israel?
- [22:31]
A
Yeah.
- [22:31]
B
Yeah. To everybody in the region. I think having. I think it's a good region to be friendly with, and I would hate to see that region fall to somebody else's influence, especially when something has happened in the past several years where it feels like a lot of our enemies are having issues. Like, I think Russia's running into a significant amount of issues. Watching Syria fall is. I mean, it's good for the US Technically. So, I mean, like, I think that.
- [22:48]
A
I honestly think if we cultivated Saudi Arabia, they'd be a better ally than Israel.
- [22:52]
B
My historical reading and all my current understanding of Saudi Arabia. I don't even know what Saudi Arabia does or, like, well, like, they have, like a military supposedly, but, like, I don't know what they do. They've been real quick. They'll all they have, like, yeah, I don't know.
- [23:03]
A
Sure. I'll give you my position.
- [23:05]
B
The countries. It's like Saudi Arabia sends like three and a half tanks and like one jet. Yeah, it's a nice little flying landing, military.
- [23:11]
A
But, like, we. We give them all their protection. But my position is if we, like, if we had cultivated our relationship with Saudi Arabia versus Israel. Saudi Arabia from a religious perspective. Right. Mecca, Medina, very religious. Like they're kind of the leaders. That's why like them coming into the Abraham Accords would have created so many problems. It's actually one of the chief reasons why Hamas attacked because Hamas knew if Saudi Arabia comes into Abraham Accords that's like the leader of the Muslim world. So it would have the. And the Palestine question wouldn't be answered. So that actually prompted it. So I think if we had that relationship, we would have been better off.
- [23:41]
B
I mean we have cultivate, we have a good relationship. Saudi Arabia we've had for like 20 years. Right. I get the issue with the, with the Israel was more without Israel.
- [23:48]
A
Yeah. Because I think, I think Israel has been putting a lot of the, like it's created a lot of diplomatic problems for us all across. And then like with what's going on in Gaza just makes us look worse in international scene. Right. And it's like we, we deal with all their problems, all their blowback because we're the ones funding them. So all the bad shit that they do, we have to eat it. And even when, when we tell them, hey, Nanya, don't do that, he does it anyway.
- [24:08]
B
Yeah, we definitely have an issue. Yeah, the. No, you need a leader with a lot of vision to solve that. The Palestinian issue with Israel. And I think the big reason for the Abraham Accords, why Hamas was emboldened after that is because Trump basically furthered the Netanyahu goal of saying, fuck dealing with the Palestinians. We're just going to keep pushing it off to the side, I think was a big thing.
- [24:26]
A
Yeah. And they couldn't, they couldn't afford for Saudi Arabia to come in without answering that question because that would have been, they would have been cooked. Now again, like, obviously what went down on October 7th was horrible, but I do think it's very important to understand like why things happen and why bad foreign policy leads to these issues. And you know, I think the only way that we're going to get peace in the Middle east because, because, okay, let's say, let's say Iran falls, there's going to be a new insurgent group, there's going to be more terrorists are going to come in. Until the Palestinians have a state, we're always going to have problems in that area. And with Netanyahu, he doesn't want a two state solution. We know that he's tried to, he's destroyed the Oslo Accords on multiple occasions. He doesn't want them to have a state. So until we get.
- [25:02]
B
But it's. The thing about Israel is Like, the people are realistic. Like, you can compel him, you could force him to do things, but you have to have a US Leader that's actually, like, on board.
- [25:10]
A
Well, the way we'd have to do it is we'd have to literally make their aid contingent upon them playing nice.
- [25:14]
B
Yeah, but they would never do that.
- [25:16]
A
That's the problem.
- [25:17]
B
That's why you need a leader to do it. Right? Yeah.
- [25:19]
A
Well, see, if we weren't controlled, and I know you disagree with me on this, like, if our foreign policy wasn't run by them and, you know, we didn't have such Zionist control of American foreign policy, we'd be able to do it where it'd be like, look, you guys got to make peace with these guys, otherwise you're not getting aid anymore. But since we continue to give them weapons, they continue to have influence. They control our politicians. They have no incentive to make peace.
- [25:39]
B
If they have so much control over us. And why did Obama sign that nuclear deal in the first place?
- [25:42]
A
So. Well, good question. So he signed it, but he got heavily criticized. Netanyahu came here on him, like, in front of our own government, and he had. He's the only other world leader that could do it. And then as soon as Obama got out, he lobbied and Trump took it out. They put Iran on. That's another thing, too. Like, we put the IRGC on the terrorist watch list, foreign terrorist list in 2019, Mike Pompeo. That created problems because then we put heavy sanctions on them. Like, we had every ability to play nice with Iran and make and do diplomacy, but we fucked it up.
- [26:13]
B
And I have. I mean, like, it's not. Well, I guess. So we disagree because I say, like, Israel can't make Trump, like, be their bitch. Like, I don't think that they don't have that influence. They don't have the economy. They don't.
- [26:24]
A
Okay. I think, I think he is beholden to the Israeli lobby. And it really pisses me off because, like, the Adelsons gave him all this money.
- [26:30]
B
I mean, he doesn't need it. The guy's a. He. He had Elon Musk, the richest guy in the world. Like, this guy could have literally gotten fundraised from anywhere in the world, and he would have been okay.
- [26:37]
A
So the reason why he needed the money, because he was facing all the legal cases. So he needed the money to run.
- [26:45]
B
And he's got Trump coin and Melania coin he doesn't need. I mean, that was after that was. I mean.
- [26:51]
He'S got a lot of money. From that legal cases aren't tens or hundreds.
- [26:54]
A
You already won at that point. I'm talking about. I'm talking about before, obviously. You know, he had like four criminal cases.
- [27:00]
B
Criminal cases. That's what I mean. Like they, I mean, like, hey, they think he needed.
- [27:04]
A
Expensive.
- [27:05]
B
Yeah, yeah, but I don't think he needed the Israeli money for that. I think he had. This guy was the most, like, popular politician in U.S. history. This is just one.
- [27:13]
A
Like, there's a bunch of other donors that we don't know about that give him money that aren't under apac, that we don't know about. That, you know, hey, you know, and then look, he got the tech bros in.
- [27:23]
Peter Thiel, Alice Karp, all these guys, the Palantir guys. These guys are like lifelong progressive Democrats. They all got under Trump. Trump banging wagon. Why? Because of Israel?
- [27:31]
B
Because they were triggered by the woke.
- [27:32]
A
Bill Ackman, all these guys.
- [27:35]
B
You think Elon Musk was controlled by Israel? Like he. This guy joined Trump, he bought X for Trump and literally about it.
- [27:41]
A
Well, no, no, so what I will say is that so when he got X, right? And he started getting hit on.
- [27:49]
When he bought X and then like, people were like, you know, they were taking a free speech crazy and people were being, you know, critical of Israel and talking about all these different things. Like, people tried to. Media Matters wrote a hip piece on him, right? Saying like, oh, look, these anti Semitic posts are put right next to your advertisers, blah, blah, blah. And he, he ended up suing them. But, you know, they made him do the ritual. He had to go to Auschwitz with, you know, Ben Shapiro, put the hat on, you know, the whole humiliation ritual. And then after that, he started playing ball. And then, interestingly enough, Elon Musk. The only person that came to the US That Elon, like left Texas to go visit was Netanyahu when he came here in, I think late last year.
- [28:26]
B
Yeah, but I mean, like, is that just because that's the only one who would be with Elon Musk. I feel like he's not a very popular guy. If we go on X right now, like, it's. It's like this is like the neo Nazi paradise platform at the moment. Okay. It's. It's crazy out there. It's not like he cleaned up a whole bunch. I mean, the Media Matters hit piece was like. You can call it a hit piece, but it was legitimate. It's kind of weird that you could scroll through something where it's like some actual crazy.
- [28:44]
A
Well, they Were doing that on purpose. Like, they were advertisements on purpose. Like, they were, like, refreshing the page.
- [28:49]
B
And, like, I understand. I've read the case.
- [28:50]
A
Yeah.
- [28:50]
B
The complaint that they filed. And I know that Elon alleged that a lot of it was unfair, but, I mean, like, you can create a new account on Twitter and you can scroll yourself and go and test it. Like, you'll see some crazy, like, right next to a sponsor. It was pretty wild. Now, as of right now, I think most sponsors have kind of come back because the price of advertising got cheap enough.
- [29:04]
A
Yeah, they cleaned it up, too. They did clean it up after that headpiece.
- [29:07]
B
Cleaned it up.
- [29:08]
A
They. They did, dude. They did. I got demonetized. I got.
- [29:11]
B
I got demonetized, too. I don't know. Well, but, yeah, I don't know. I don't. I just don't see. It's like an unfalsifiable, like, thing. Like, I think there's plenty of reasons to explain why I think a lot of old people in the US Fucking love Israel just because of the story, the Cold War and everything.
- [29:25]
A
A lot of dumb boomers.
- [29:26]
B
Yeah, I don't think you need necessarily. I don't think you need a conspiracy to explain why Trump is such a huge fucking Israeli dick suck. And I think, you see, the younger generation is definitely not.
- [29:35]
A
Well, yeah, like, they're just starting to wake up to this stuff. But, like, yeah, the boomer generation, the people that watch Sean Hannity and Fox News, whatever they are. But, like, my. My point is, is that I think our foreign policy is controlled by them, and we need to, like, stop being occupied by them.
- [29:49]
B
Because, like, if it was easy to buy somebody off, I mean, how many Arabs, Muslims are there? Like, 2 billion. Yeah, there's got to be more money in that world to pay off a leader than however much, well, they have.
- [29:57]
A
To register under Pharaoh.
- [29:58]
B
Well, sure, but I mean, it's like, AIPAC is not, like, Israel. Or, wait, you probably think that, okay.
- [30:04]
A
They'Re not Israel, but they're American. You know, a lot of times American Zionists that, you know, obviously believe in Israel.
- [30:10]
B
You can make the same thing in the US with an Arab group, if you wanted, or a Muslim group, Saudi Arabian group or whatever.
- [30:14]
A
Yeah, dude, but, like, come on. I mean, we could talk about Epstein, for example, right? Like, do you think if Epstein was, like, you know, Jeffrey Muhammad, that, like, we would be concealing the fact that he was, you know, an asset for a foreign intelligence service? No. The documents would have been declassified immediately.
- [30:26]
B
I don't think that would have been because, like, we're beholden to Israel. I think it's just because a lot of older Americans remember 9, 11 and hate Muslims and. And we're like, no, no, no.
- [30:34]
A
Sure, sure, sure. But, like, what I'm. The point is, is that, like, you know, if Epstein was Muslim, those documents would be out. If he was an Arab, those documents would be out. Like, you know, but the fact that he was tied in with Israeli intelligence, like, we still don't have the documents. We don't have anything. Oh, we're going to declassify him. Didn't bring anything out. Took 60 years to get the abstinence documents.
- [30:51]
B
The Epstein is hard. I truly believe. I don't think there is a book. There is no client list. I think the Epstein was a kind of a perverted dude, had young people there. I don't think there's anything to be found from the Epstein stuff. I think that Trump played it up because they wanted it to be and because it looked good as, like a hit piece. But, like, I think that, like, the people that push this the hardest would have been the ones with most incentive to kill him. Right. Epstein died in 2019 in a Trump federal prison. Right. What was it? Acosta was a Department of labor secretary. Who was the criminal attorney, I think.
- [31:16]
A
Who got U.S. attorney.
- [31:19]
B
He was the San Diego, Florida, nice deal. So that he didn't have prison time for the. For the first charges that he caught.
- [31:24]
A
Yeah.
- [31:25]
B
Like, if you wanted to, Like, I've seen obviously, if he was on video saying, oh, Joe Biden is my best friend of 10 years. Like, people be losing their mind because it was Trump. Nobody even knows about the call. It's like, publicly available. Yeah. I don't know. The issue I have, I guess sometimes that, like, I can see a bunch of stuff that, like, I understand. Like, there's good explanations for it. I'm like, is there anything that's happening where it's like, I can't explain that without some kind of, like, foreign push.
- [31:45]
A
So. So here's my thing. I actually agree with you that, like, people are way too hyped up on the client list or whatever. And actually, to be honest with you, you know, I was talking with you about this. Where people really need to look is the CIA, because if he was actually a foreign agent for a foreign country, the CIA is going to have all that information. The FBI is strictly domestic, like, nsa, CIA. Honestly, Tulsi Gabbard is the one that's going to have everything when it comes to Epstein because people forget that there's a criminal case and there's also a classified high side. That's the stuff that people want to see. So my thing is, I think the fact that he is aligned with the Israeli government is a big reason why they're not showing us that, because that's what people really want to see. Is there a client list? Maybe. But my thing is I'm more interested in who was he working for, why was he collecting information that he was collecting and what were his. What was, like, what was he actually doing when he was in the US like, what were his meetings like, etc. Because I guarantee you, to be fair, they have that.
- [32:37]
B
That kind of stuff will never be released, like, ever. When they say stuff like that would.
- [32:40]
A
Never come, that's what they campaign on. And that's why people are so.
- [32:43]
B
But that's like their issue.
- [32:44]
A
Yeah.
- [32:44]
B
I think one big issue that Trump Admin is going to have, like, in the first term, Trump. Because Trump doesn't know how to do politics. He didn't know anything about, like, what are my, you know, what do my cabinet members do or what do my agencies do now? Coming in. Right. He's appointed absolute sycophants in every single cabinet position and now he can't use those. Yeah.
- [32:59]
A
He put loyalists instead of. Instead of competent.
- [33:02]
B
Yeah. So he can't use deep state excuses anymore. Unless we're saying the deep state is even deeper than all the control. And when you've got guys like, you know, bongo balls or whatever on Tim Pool saying, I got a guy in the CIA who told me 100% and now, you know, this guy is deputy of the FBI with Cash Patel or whatever. And they're like, oh, we actually have nothing. There's nothing's going on here. And Tulsi Gabard says nothing is going on. And Pam Bondi says nothing's going on. Like, at what point is it like Tulsi?
- [33:23]
A
Cause that. That's who people really need to ask questions to. Because, you know, people forget, like, how the intelligence apparatus is. But she's the one that's going to have everything. She's going to have the high side stuff that people are actually interested in.
- [33:33]
B
I mean, they say that, but, like, what was the argument before the argument? So Pam Bondi should theoretically have everything for the doj, but she's like, well, this other district, New York, was hiding stuff from us. So is Tulsi Gabbard going to leave in four years and be like, actually, you know, even though I was a director of National Settlements they were hiding stuff for me too. And it's like, fuck.
- [33:46]
A
The reason why I say her is because she's going to have access to all the classified stuff from the intelligence community. Right.
- [33:51]
B
Like, I understand theoretically, but I'm saying it feels like there's always a deeper state to point to once they're out of office. They're like, we couldn't get those files because somebody deep in this.
- [33:58]
A
My bottom line is that if he had worked for the Saudi Arabian government, we would have those documents. But since he was tied in with the Israeli government, we're not getting those documents because. And here's. I guarantee why they're not going to release it. They're going to consider it national defense information. Ndi. And off that, oh, sorry, we can't release it. And then a lot of those people are still alive. Who knows what he's.
- [34:18]
B
I feel like this would be standard. Like, I don't think we would know about Saudi Arabia. I mean, we. They literally chainsawed that one dude up in that embassy. Yeah, we didn't do all about that. Right. I think at this point, I think most people believe.
- [34:30]
A
But we wouldn't give that same level of like Saudi Arabia.
- [34:33]
B
Cool.
- [34:33]
A
But like I'm saying, like. Like we give Israel is insane.
- [34:36]
B
Maybe. I mean, the. What was his name? Justami Jasagi.
- [34:44]
It's pretty crazy. Like, people. I pretty sure people saw him getting.
- [34:46]
A
Like carried out and killed in the Turkey. Yeah, yeah.
- [34:48]
B
And then. And look at like Ukraine. I think at this point, most people know that if it. Zelensky might not have had personal knowledge, but Ukraine probably took out the Nordstrom 2 pipeline. We haven't released anything or said anything all about that. I think it's pretty standard practice for. We have allies, we just don't. We're not going to release, like, sure.
- [35:02]
A
Sure, you know, the amount of aid that we give them, the amount of money we give them, etc. Like, I'm saying, like any other country. Had Epstein not been aligned with Israel, let's say he had been aligned with Turkey, even Ukraine, some of our greatest allies. The info would have came out, is my argument.
- [35:16]
B
I don't know.
- [35:17]
A
I think it's speculative, but I think the info would have came out.
- [35:19]
B
It was literally in the United States with his own bodyguards, like, beating up U.S. citizens. And we didn't say fuck all about it. We're like, oh, you know, he's cool. You know, just. We give a lot of deference to people.
- [35:28]
A
Scumbag, man.
- [35:28]
B
Sure.
- [35:29]
A
Yeah, yeah.
- [35:29]
B
Turkey. It does a Lot. I mean, Trump literally, when he left Syria and Turkey was like, oh, we can go bomb these Kurds now.
- [35:35]
A
It's like the definition of like, a guy that just talks. But.
- [35:37]
B
Yeah, but I mean, like, we didn't do all about it or condemn him or say anything bad about it. So I don't know. I think it's. I think we get a lot of difference to our allies.
- [35:43]
A
It's hard to say, but Israel, dude, come on, man. Come on, man. Come on, man. Epstein was Turkish intelligence. We would have. That file would have been out, man. I don't know, man.
- [35:53]
B
What about Ukraine? Ukraine just got another round of funding. Where do you guys stand on that?
- [35:57]
A
Yes. You know, it's disappointing because, you know, Trump campaigned that he would end that conflict, and now I think he's starting to realize that we're in a little too deep now. Russia has no reason to make peace at this point. They're. They're winning and they have all the cards, unfortunately, so they're like, oh, well, what's the point of us doing diplomacy? And, you know, Trump thought he was going to be able to come in and just kind of let them keep the land that they have, don't join NATO for 20 years. I think this was kind of the original. Correct me if I'm wrong, like, plan that they came in with, it wasn't good enough for Russia. So. I don't know, dude. I mean, this. That's a fucking nightmare. Ukraine, Russia. What's going on? I don't know. What's your position on that?
- [36:36]
B
I think I truly do believe that Trump is just incompetent in, like, everything he does. I think that people have let him get away with this. He's like a master negotiator.
- [36:42]
A
I think he's better than the Biden administration on Russia. You don't think so? No.
- [36:45]
B
He's a catastrophe. This guy said he would do it on Day zero. This guy's, like, truthing out, like, I think Putin is lying to me.
- [36:50]
A
It's like, yeah, no, I see your perspective, but. But at least he's talking to Putin. The Biden administration, they didn't talk to him for years.
- [36:58]
B
Yeah, but I mean, like, what has Trump gotten in all of his talks with Putin? Literally all.
- [37:04]
A
Yeah, well, again, it's better than they say, like, talking.
- [37:06]
B
I got all day. I talked to him and I begged and I got.
- [37:08]
A
But at least. At least we got. At least we got a conversation going. At least we can figure something out.
- [37:12]
B
Dude, we haven't figured anything out.
- [37:14]
A
Biden administration even talk to him.
- [37:15]
B
Dude, yeah, there's nothing to talk about motherfuckers invading a sovereign nation for no reason.
- [37:19]
A
Well, if you want to make peace, you have to talk to the other side at some point.
- [37:22]
B
I mean, with Putin.
- [37:24]
A
Yeah, you got to talk to him at some point.
- [37:25]
B
I think she just supported Ukraine and let them win the war. I think that would have been a better idea.
- [37:28]
A
But you think what, we should have.
- [37:29]
B
Supported Ukraine so they could have won the war? I think would have been the better idea.
- [37:33]
A
Again, I think that that whole conflict was bad foreign policy by the U.S. again. Right. Like, like, you know, allowing NATO to expand. Like, you know, we could have made a play with the Russians in the early 2000s. Putin wanted to join.
- [37:45]
B
They wanted like a, they wanted to expedited list. They wanted to get there with privileged. I. There are definitely steps that we could have taken to be more friendly with Russia historically, like, especially after the war on terror, like we had a closer relationship for a while, but the. They. They see themselves as like a dispossessed empire and I think they want that back. I mean, they did it in. Well, for sure they're doing in Ukraine.
- [38:06]
A
He's talked about that. But, but I do think that this, and this isn't just. I can't really even blame this on one administration. This is literally like 2010, 20 years of bad foreign policy with Russia where I think we could have definitely held back NATO a little bit. Could have.
- [38:20]
B
You know, but I mean like, even when you say that, like held back NATO, like why, if countries vote to want to join NATO, like why would you say no, you can't, sorry, you have to get by Russia instead.
- [38:28]
A
Well, it's not that I think allowing NATO to continue to expand like, and provoking a world power, nuclear weapons.
- [38:35]
B
We don't attack Russia.
- [38:37]
A
Well, no, of course we don't. But by allowing NATO to expand, that is a, that is a proxy way that we're. Because we're benefiting from. We're allowing our weapons to be used. We're seeing what their capabilities are versatiles. Like, this is a crazy. This is an awesome intel collection thing for us, obviously at the cost of Ukrainians and Russians dying, but. And costing us billions of dollars.
- [38:53]
B
But maybe the, Maybe it's just nicer to be friends with the US Than with Russia. Right. Like, I think, I mean, like when you look at like, like in the Baltics, like these guys are sitting real good right now. Like, I'm glad as we got it in because I want to be Ukraine.
- [39:04]
A
Well, well, they only joined after. After the Ukraine situation. Like, no.
- [39:08]
B
Baltics, Estonian.
- [39:09]
A
Yeah, yeah, yeah. But I'm talking about, like, I'm thinking of Finland right now. Yeah. Like, Finland only joined because of what happened with Ukraine. But I do think that, you know, the invasion in 2022 was just a culmination of just really bad foreign policy. And then Putin seeing Biden sucks. Let's go in. He's weak. And then, bam.
- [39:25]
B
I mean, he would have gone in if it was Trump.
- [39:26]
A
Like, you think so?
- [39:27]
B
I don't think he hasn't done all. With Trump there, he was still fighting through all of Trump's first term in the Donbass. Like, yeah. I don't think this. This weird myth that, like, everybody respects Trump and nobody does shit. Like, I. I just don't think it's true. Like, anybody will do anything.
- [39:39]
A
Like, I don't think he would have invaded if Trump. Trump was in. I. I don't. I don't. Like. I don't.
- [39:42]
B
I mean, India and Pakistan were trading blows for a little bit. Russia hasn't slowed down on anything.
- [39:46]
A
He did end out.
- [39:47]
B
He didn't end. They. They came to a heat. You read like, where does this myth come from that Trump.
- [39:53]
A
Let me get my position, okay. Not that, you know, I'm not the average Mac of retard. Here's the thing. Both nuclear powers, they knew they would destroy each other. Yeah. They need an intermediary to come in. He came in. Convenient. I'm ending it. Took credit for it. Cool. All right. That's my position. I don't think. I think it would have ended anyway.
- [40:07]
B
Sure.
- [40:07]
A
That he was able to slide in and get the credit for it because they both have nukes.
- [40:10]
B
They would have each other, but he could have. They just. Yeah. Like I said, they need, like, an off ramp, right?
- [40:13]
A
Yeah, they need an off ramp. And he was in a convenient position.
- [40:16]
B
Trump, Foreign policy, in my opinion, through all, like, five years has been a disaster. I don't know, like, what foreign policy. W's.
- [40:22]
A
I think. I think he's better than Biden, dude. And I think he would have done better than Kamala in this situation.
- [40:26]
B
We were involved in less conflict with Biden. We. The wars that we were involved in were much more justified.
- [40:31]
A
Two wars broke out, man.
- [40:32]
B
Yeah. But they weren't our wars. And arguably you can point to Trump at the very least for the Israeli one. Right. Those Abraham Accords were a big fuck you to the Palestinians who already been extricated from every other Arab supporter. Right. Imagine you go from like, my allies are Syria, Jordan, all these other Arab states. And now it's like my allies are the.
- [40:53]
A
I've mentioned a million times how the Abraham Accords was a part of it.
- [40:56]
B
But it's pretty crazy to be like, to the Middle east and then like two years, three years later it's like, oh, biggest terrorist.
- [41:00]
A
Like, oh, it's also the occupation. It's also everything else that comes in, dude. Hell, even the red cows that they went and bought from Texas, that was a part of the reason why they attacked.
- [41:08]
B
But I'm saying, like, everything under Trump, like, he was, he was gung ho with Saudi Arabia drone striking Yemen. He was cool with just like ditching the Kurds in Syria. He didn't give a. About any of that.
- [41:16]
A
That's like every president ditches the Kurds. Like, we use them. Hey, fight the missiles for us. And then we like just leave them.
- [41:20]
B
To dry in Iraq are a bit happier now than they were under Saddam Hussein.
- [41:23]
A
Oh yeah, they're super happy.
- [41:24]
B
Yeah.
- [41:25]
A
80% of their oil from them.
- [41:26]
B
He kicked the, I mean, he kicked us out of Afghanistan in like the dumbest way possible. He basically.
- [41:32]
A
No, that was Biden.
- [41:33]
B
Well, the one we left and it was on, it was on Trump's negotiated agreement. The Doha Accords was. His agreement was him taking the Taliban going to, to Qatar. Qatar and then basically negotiating a full surrender without even the Afghanistan government being involved.
- [41:47]
A
American foreign policy, I would say over the past like 20 years been bad.
- [41:52]
B
I was saying that under Biden we are like, the big stuff we're involved in is like Ukraine and Israel and.
- [41:58]
A
And those both broke out under his watch.
- [42:00]
B
Broke out is a very one dimensional way of looking at time. But I'm just, I'm just saying that like, those are the two conflicts we're involved in. Under Trump, it was like five of them and like most of them were bullshit. We didn't need to be doing anything in Yemen with the Houthis with the weird shit we were doing in Syria. This guy campaigned on like, we're going to take their fucking oil.
- [42:16]
A
I'll say this.
- [42:16]
B
So the surrender Afghanistan is a disaster.
- [42:18]
A
Significant conflicts broke out under Biden's administration. Like, and I get what you're saying. Well, the Abraham Accords added to that. Well, the other thing too is that at least with, even though I'm critical of Trump for doing this with the Iranians, he had them sanctioned. So they were broken. Right. They didn't have the money to really be funding all the proxies. Like, they did so, you know, Hamas wouldn't have had the same level of, okay, let's go ahead and attack them if they didn't have all the financial backing and a strong Iran behind them. If Trump weren't. So I don't think October 7th would have happened.
- [42:44]
B
I mean, I saw a lot of being a video that were sophisticated. They weren't driving Humvees. They were like Toyota.
- [42:50]
A
Like, of course, of course, of course. But, like, what I'm saying is, like, I don't. Like they, they wouldn't have had a strong Iran to back them in that attack as the way that they did and obviously with Hezbollah and everything else, because Hezbollah was shooting rockets into Israel, like on October 8th.
- [43:02]
B
Yeah.
- [43:02]
A
Right after.
- [43:03]
B
But I mean, they had like the third largest missile stockpile in the world. That wasn't just because. Just because of Iran.
- [43:07]
A
Yeah, yeah. But like, they're emboldened because they were stronger. So my point is, I think, and you're going to disagree with me on this, I think Trump's foreign policy, though, I do. I'm very critical of it. I'm not a Magatar. Do you know this? I still think it's better than Biden.
- [43:20]
B
What's like one CW that like he, like, he put in work for it.
- [43:23]
A
Not like another Congo and the Rwandans and like that.
- [43:26]
B
Yeah.
- [43:29]
A
Look, you're not going to look at as a w. But I think the fact that he's talking to Russia. No, I'm not gonna say North Korea. No, no, no, no. But I, I think the fact that he's at least talking with Russia, at least he's talking with Putin. There's some semblance of mutual respect there to a degree. I do think that can at least the, the bridge is there about walking. Well, he didn't even talk. He didn't even talk to the Biden administration.
- [43:51]
We. This would be even more cooked when it comes to Russia.
- [43:53]
B
But you said mutual respect. How. Where is the evidence that Putin has any respect at all for Trump?
- [43:57]
A
Yeah. So he actually left the meeting early to say, hey, I. To Trump, like literally, like a couple.
- [44:01]
B
Days ago to go butter him up a little bit and then go bomb Ukraine like 20 times harder the next day.
- [44:05]
A
Again. Again. No, no, no. But the point, the point I'm trying.
- [44:07]
B
To make, even Trump himself is truth out like 15 times, motherfuckers keep bombing you.
- [44:10]
A
He did it in public. Again, I'm not saying it's fantastic, but what I am saying, it's better than not having any talks at all. Right. Like, the the, the step one to diplomacy is talking and with the Biden administration and if Kamala Harris were in, they wouldn't even be talking.
- [44:23]
B
Step one of humiliation is also talking though. Right, Right. Like it's a big W that Putin's like I just talked to this and then I like did 10x more missile attacks the next day and he didn't like that Looks good for Putin. Right.
- [44:33]
A
Well, here's the other thing. Remember we, we, we backed Ukraine when they did their drone strike on Russia. That was embarrassing for them where we destroyed a bunch of their fighter jets. Remember that When Ukraine did basically did the same thing that the Mossad did with Iran.
- [44:43]
B
It was like, wait, when?
- [44:45]
A
Okay, so a couple, like I don't know if you heard about this story a couple like a month ago.
- [44:49]
B
I know, I know about the drones. Yeah.
- [44:51]
A
When Ukraine was behind enemy lines and they were able to basically. Yeah, so, so that was embarrassing for Russia. Right?
- [44:55]
B
Sure.
- [44:56]
A
And we obviously funded that.
- [44:57]
B
So like did we obviously fund it? I mean, yeah, dude, this is, I think this was like a manpower attack. This wasn't like an ultra sophisticated technology attack. This was like.
- [45:04]
A
No, no, it was sophisticated. They were behind enemy lines and they were able to launch the drones to go ahead and attack the plan.
- [45:09]
B
But it was like, it was like.
- [45:12]
A
All our weapons, dude, all our, it was drones.
- [45:14]
B
It wasn't like these weren't like billion dollar. It was like a years long project of like assembling stuff behind enemy lines. I'm just saying it wasn't like, like this is like a five million dollar missile every time.
- [45:23]
A
That's our intelligence, that's our, you know, we're the ones telling them how to set up and everything. Like dude, it's all us. Like the Ukrainians.
- [45:29]
B
I don't believe that. I bet, I bet that right now.
- [45:31]
A
CIA is 100 super involved in this conflict, feeding them all kinds of intelligence.
- [45:35]
B
I don't even know how much we could coach them in terms of. Because the type of warfare that they're participating in has never been seen on the planet. Like all this drone back and forth and they're probably getting like new methods and intelligence and ways to do this that like nobody's conceived of. I'm sure we're collecting data but, but I don't know how hand in hand we are with them on everything.
- [45:51]
A
Well no, we're, dude, we're literally RCIA guys are over there. Like literally. The only difference is like it's not our guys that are operating, you know, the weapons and like that. But in some cases where the Ukrainians don't know how to operate it, our guys are operating it. Like, we're as close as you can be to the conflict without actually being in the conflict. And I think that's another big problem, why diplomacy is failing, because it's like, well, you just launched an attack where you destroyed a bunch of my nuclear capable fighter jets.
- [46:15]
B
So to be fair, they left when they did those attacks. Those are the only planes they left alone. They didn't attack the nuclear capable ones explicitly, which was interesting.
- [46:22]
A
No, they did attack those.
- [46:24]
B
They left just those planes alone because there's a lot of theorizing and speculating on why they did it. And the idea is that they're.
- [46:30]
A
Because all the outlets I looked at, they said they, they destroyed the nuclear capable ones, man.
- [46:34]
B
I mean, we can fact check, putting.
- [46:35]
A
It on screen, and that's fine. It's not that big a deal. But, like, you know, I'd like to, you know, to see where you saw that.
- [46:41]
B
Like, I mean, like, Russia would understand us helping Ukraine because that's where it's all in our interest. Like, we all know what we're doing. We have to be like when, like when, like when Iran bombs a U. S. Base in, in Qatar, right? They said that we completely and totally obliterated that, and we know they didn't. And we'll make a little statement, but we're not going to sit here and lord it over them because they need to have that win. They need to have that to maintain their legitimacy as, like, that regime unified us, Right.
- [47:00]
A
It's not two hours before.
- [47:01]
B
Yeah, people are evacuating beforehand. Right. It's like when Putin says, you know, we're going to do shit. And like, people are freaking out because nukes are moving around. It's like, well, they're doing it above ground. We could see everything. Like, that's good. That's okay for us.
- [47:10]
A
You know, I still think, think that though this is bad, don't get it twisted. I think the form, like what we got going on with Russia, Ukraine and the fact that they're trying to push this bill through is l. I still think it's head and shoulders above anything Kamala Harris would have been able to do or what the Biden administration was doing, because at least they're talking. Yes, it's not going as well as we want, obviously. Trump is visibly frustrated. But step one with diplomacy is talking. The Biden administration wasn't talking three years.
- [47:34]
B
Nothing gets resolved.
- [47:36]
A
Then I owe you a beer.
- [47:37]
B
Okay. All right.
- [47:38]
A
That I owe you a beer.
- [47:39]
B
You said you're not a fan of the big beautiful bill.
- [47:44]
It's a hard world to be in then. Now you know how we felt defending Biden. Okay. Yeah. It's awkward, right? Dude, I gotta do some debates. And I'm like, what do we got in the West Politico reporting today? And then the Trump guy's like, oh, boy.
- [47:56]
A
Oh, man.
- [47:56]
B
Yeah.
- [47:56]
A
So, okay, look, with every bill there's. Because it's so goddamn big, like, you can't agree or like, everything with it. Obviously, I'm pro immigration, right? No, not pro immigration enforcement. Excuse me. So I do think that, you know, the deportations is a good thing. You might disagree with me on that. I don't know if you want to, what your position is on that.
- [48:17]
B
My, my big issue when it comes to stuff is that, like, regardless what you feel, Trump is politically, like, he picks way too many fights. He can't focus on anything he doesn't know how to get. Like, PR wins. The biggest that I have when the left, like, fights against him. Like, ICE is important. Like, a border is important. Having, like, an actual immigration policy where we know who's in the country. Like, these are important things. And because that's all progressive, like.
- [48:39]
So fucking unhinged. Like, I see where people are coming from and they're like, abolish ICE and shit. Like, it's pretty crazy that there are kids drowning in Texas and then there are, like, forces, like, walking through MacArthur park in fucking LA as a show, and it's like, what the fuck? This is the gayest shit I've ever seen in my entire life. What are we doing right now? These guys are kitted out in, like, body armor that's like. Like, they're Ukrainians in ditches that see how our, like, feds are equipped, like, doing nothing in California. Like, what the fuck? So, like, like, I think that the. I think there's, like, there is a good conversation we had about immigration and I think pushed.
- [49:08]
A
Do you want to go into immigration?
- [49:09]
B
We could, but I think that whole conversation is even further away now after the unhinged shit that Trump has done everywhere. Like, I think it's, like, fucked for a while now.
- [49:15]
A
Ok, so my position is, I think he's actually fairly good on immigration. I don't like what he's doing with the anti Semitism bills, like, deporting fucking cowstones. I think that's retarded. But, you know, the stronger border, obviously we know that, you know, illegal entries are down, like, something wild, like 90% or whatever. But I do think in the whole, though, I'm critical of the deporting of college students because I think those resources could be better allocated to actually going after illegal aliens. I think in general, enforcing immigration is a good thing. Something that we haven't done for a very long time. And you know, outside of like, you know, people say, oh, well, Obama, you know, did a bunch of deportations. Yeah, like catching people at the border and releasing them are two different things. It's not the same as like, like interior action Enforcement. And when it comes to like interior enforcement, you know, that is where Trump, like shines compared to other places, I guess.
- [49:59]
B
Yeah.
- [49:59]
A
Other politics.
- [50:00]
B
Hopefully they don't listen to this podcast at all. But, like, I think that Trump could have gotten the easiest W's in the world by going to sanctuary city, sanctuary states and just sending the feds into like, prisons, state prisons and being like, we're taking, we're going to do paperwork, check on everybody and we're going to, you know, dump these guys out. They could have gotten a lot of deportations. It would have been probably cheap. But compared to what they're doing now.
- [50:17]
A
Well, the problem with the sanctuary cities is they don't even, like, they don't. And I can tell you this from like my professional experience, bro, they don't even honor the detainers. Like, I remember when I was on a job, someone would be illegal, hey, I want you to hold this person for us. They let them go for sure.
- [50:28]
B
But that's what I'm saying. Going to prisons where they're already people already arrested and shit, and then start doing like background checks there. I'm just saying it would have been cheaper than what they're doing now. It would have been really hard.
- [50:36]
A
They reserve the right to tell the feds you're not coming in here. Like, that's how bad it was.
- [50:39]
B
Supremacy. I don't know.
- [50:40]
A
That's how bad it was getting there.
- [50:42]
B
For like deportion related, deportation related stuff. Even if they did say that, in my mind, it would still be a W because Trump could very easily say, we're just trying to go into a prison. We just want to deport the felons, the violent criminals and they're harboring them. Because now we can't say we just want people to be able to work and be happy and take care of their business kind of like. But when you're, but when you're running around like raiding, like fudgeing Home Depots and deporting, you know, like people In a fucking El Salvador. Like, the fuck. Like, he's like picking the most evil shit to make everybody fucking hate him for no reason.
- [51:07]
A
Well, that's the thing with immigration, right? You're damned if you do, damned if you don't. Like, yeah, you're going to go after people that are just like, hard working in here, but they're here illegally, man. And this has been a long time that we've been kind of been like, compassionate. Like, oh, my God, we don't want to be offensive, but it's like they got to get removed. And like, when it comes to the thing with the state. So there's this myth, right? Like, oh, you know, the feds can trump the state or whatever. State law enforcement actually has far more authority than people think. And they can literally tell, you go pound sand, you're not walking in this fucking jail and you can't go in there, be like, well, you need to let me in. Like, no, the feds don't have as much authority as people think.
- [51:37]
B
Like, they might not. But the thing is, is that like, in matters of border enforcement, this is where the executive is at its peak when it comes to power and enforcement.
- [51:43]
A
And everything on the border, they have way more power. But here's the thing.
- [51:47]
B
No, I understand, but I'm saying you could probably make like immigration related arguments when it comes to, when it comes to like state prisons and stuff. I'm sure that they could make the argument or they could set up the same way they do for state courthouses where they just wait outside the courthouse and when a motherfucker comes out.
- [51:59]
A
Yeah, and that's like, big reason why they have to do that because.
- [52:01]
B
But they could do it, do it in prisons and state prisons. Like, it's such a, it's an easy optical win. You look bad defending it. Right. Like, it looks bad to throw people out of Home Depot no matter what. Even conservatives are like, you know, you don't want to like, like. But if they just do it out of prisons, it'd be so much more popular.
- [52:14]
A
Yeah.
- [52:14]
B
And like, at the end of the term, Trump is not deporting a significant number of people. It's not going to happen. Right.
- [52:18]
A
Well, here's the thing. Like, I see what you're saying, like, hey, just sit outside the side of jail stuff. But the problem is that they get released at irregular times. You don't know when they're going to be released. They'll release without telling you.
- [52:29]
B
$168 billion. Put a cop in the back and in the Front. You got the time to have these guys work doubles. You can do it. He allocates so much money, if he wanted to do it, he could do it.
- [52:37]
A
Okay, no, no. Well, here's the thing again.
- [52:39]
B
With this guy deployed the national, there's only 200 Marines to California. He can send some feds to sit in LA jail for, you know, two.
- [52:45]
A
Months with ICRO because they're the main people that have Title 8 or whatever, there's a certain amount of manpower, etc. Yes, you can designate people to have Title 8 authority and put them out there and everything, but, you know, we're talking about every single jail. That'd be an enormous amount.
- [52:57]
B
Pick two.
- [52:58]
A
Okay, Destiny.
- [53:01]
B
You're telling me that they can't do this at the same time where I watch like the fucking, like a Baghdad's invasion fleet, like drive down LA to go surround MacArthur park for a three hour horse gallivanting. Did you watch the videos of this?
- [53:13]
A
No. I did see some of it, yeah.
- [53:15]
B
They caught zero fucking people. However much money they spent on that, they could have monitored one prison for one month. I'm sure they could.
- [53:20]
A
Of course, of course. What I'm saying is that like, that's like, do you really want to put, you know, six guys at the jail? 24 hours waiting for this guy to walk out the jail. Like, is that a good use of resources?
- [53:29]
B
Isn't it a better use of resources than the MacArthur park deployment?
- [53:33]
A
Well, again, it always depends on who the alien is. Like, what's their background? Like, are they a criminal alien? Every case is obviously dependent on the person's criminal history, who they are, how many times they've been apprehended, whatever. But I do think in general, what we got going on with immigration is better than before. I know some of it is sensationalized to you, but I do think, like.
- [53:52]
B
I mean, like, the El Salvador is unhinged. Why?
- [53:54]
A
With who? With.
- [53:55]
B
Why are we deporting anybody to El Salvador? Why? We make a deal to send them to their special prisons. I'm paying them for it. It's like, well, we don't have to. It's just like, unhinged.
- [54:03]
A
Well, yeah, I see your position, but the thing is, is that like a lot of countries, some countries, like, won't take them back, right?
- [54:08]
B
Like, I'll give you a master deal maker.
- [54:12]
A
No, these have been put like some of these countries, like Cape Verde, I'll give you a perfect example. Like Cape Verde, for example, won't take their aliens back. Like, and like in Boston, they Get caught all the time for being in gangs and committing violence. And since Cape Verde won't take them back, I just can't do anything with them. They go back out into the streets.
- [54:27]
B
I don't believe that they won't take it back. I think if the United States, a lot of countries don't take them back, we're flying. No. Zero chance. The US Says we're flying. I'm telling you this from the US Person. If the United States were to say, hey, we're bringing these people back to your country and you're going to fucking take them, there's zero world where the country's like, oh, actually, actually, you. Us, you know, you guys can keep it. We're not taking from you. No shot. Just like with your Breaker Garcia. And they're like, oh, no, we can't get him back. He said, no, there's nothing we do. And all of a sudden, well, we knew he could.
- [54:50]
A
He could have got him back. But I'm saying, like. But what? Like. Like again, there's some countries where they won't take him back, bro. I'm telling you, okay? Verde's one of them. There's more. I just can't go drop him off.
- [54:58]
B
At the U. N. Give them to the hag if you want it. There's no shot. You're telling me that the United States couldn't deport somebody to a country.
- [55:05]
In that case, and we should say it to all do anything.
- [55:09]
A
They're sensitive diplomacy things. Like, there's.
- [55:12]
B
There's countries where you think Trump is the sen. Diplomacy guy.
- [55:15]
A
No, no, no. I'm not saying. I'm saying in general, these things have been in. And have been in place forever. There's some countries that simply won't take their people back, which is why you have to remove them sometimes to other countries where they might have an agreement where they can get them back to that country. Does that make sense? I'm going in the weeds here. No, no, because this is fine.
- [55:32]
B
I'm saying grammatically, what you're saying makes sense. I'm just saying that, like, realistically, that's not how it would work, right? Like, if I had like a. If I had the passwords to. To. If I had the passwords to some horribly incriminating piece of information on you, and then I had the best password protection on my computer in the world, and then we have a debate on whether or not you can get that information on my computer. What would you say?
- [55:52]
A
I'm a bit confused by your.
- [55:53]
B
If I had Incriminating information on you in my computer. I had it locked down so nobody could get in but me. Would I, Would you agree that you could never get into my computer?
- [56:01]
A
Probably not.
- [56:02]
B
No, no, you would. You would just beat the out of me until I gave you the password.
- [56:06]
A
Well, you wanted me to use violence.
- [56:07]
B
Yeah, well, with the United States, yeah, we use violence everywhere. So I'm just saying that like, if you want to say, like, well, diplomat, there are issues and people don't want to take blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And it's like, like in a sense that's kind of true. But at the end of the day, if the United States were saying, you're taking these mother, they will take back.
- [56:20]
A
But again, the aliens got to be worth it. It's got to be a big deal. Like, it's got to be. Here's the thing, they don't want to go ahead and exercise, you know, our weight and our, like, hey, you need to take them back unless it's really worth it. So in general, is the El Salvador.
- [56:31]
B
Ship been worth it?
- [56:32]
A
Well, I'm not, I'm, I'm not talking about El Salvador. I'm talking about in general, like, there are countries out there that simply won't take their people back. So what ends up happening is, is, and I'm telling you this from immigration standpoint, like, they're not going to go and fight and be like, take this guy back, blah, blah, it's pain in the ass. So instead they'll remove him to another country. That country might have an agreement with that individual, with that other country that won't take them back from us, and then they'll give them back that way. So that's the way that they get around it.
- [56:53]
B
I think by the end of the four years, he's not going to have deported a significant amount of people.
- [56:57]
A
Well, a lot of people aren't coming in too. So well into it.
- [57:00]
B
Yeah, a little bit, sure. But I mean if we have anywhere from 13 to 20 million, depending who you ask people here, a big amount.
- [57:05]
A
Of like the deportations people talk about, a lot of it is just, you know, we'll try to. Yeah. Expedited remote removals ers, so. But I do think, in general, I think what he's doing with immigration is, is good in general. Like there's.
- [57:17]
B
Even though by the end of his four years we're not going to deport a significant on our people, they're still all basically going to be here.
- [57:21]
A
Well, deterrence is important and people not coming in is super important as well. And closing down the border is important.
- [57:27]
B
Sure. I mean, to be fair, nobody's coming here right now. Like, tourism is down like 80% as well. But I mean, like, that's come.
- [57:32]
A
Who cares? Strong borders. But yeah, I think, I think in general, like the deterrence and the people not coming in, that's a big D. Because the other thing too is that like, when it comes to illegal aliens and coming, that funds a lot of illegal activity. So like these human smuggling organizations, they're taking a big pay cut as well. So it helps with many other ways where it's positive reverberations.
- [57:50]
B
Yeah, I mean, I agree carving that is good. I just, I think there are way better ways to do it. But what about amnesty for these illegals?
- [57:59]
Okay, I would say my position is that nobody wants to have the conversation, but amnesty is the only realistic way to solve the illegal immigration problem. I feel like you can do it. I feel like you can. Like a, like a carrot and stick approach where if you've been here for, you know, at least like five years, if, if you can prove you don't have like a criminal record, like, and I mean like a real criminal record, not like a fucking speeding ticket, but like no, like felonies, no bad misdemeanors for violence or whatever, then I think you give a path to amnesty for man, maybe you cap them at a green card or whatever and maybe you make them pay a fucking fine if conservatives want to jerk off for the next five years on the income. But like, the reality is they're already hired by businesses, they're renting. You know, they already, you know, they exist in these communities, like they're sucking them out would just collapse like so many different parts of different parts of economies that if you have a path to amnesty, you can do that. And then simultaneously you hardcore ramp up your conditions or your penalties for violating. So make it so. Like, if you get caught here illegally, it's not five years, it's like 25 years. Or it's a lifetime ban from the U.S. or if you're caught helping somebody, you know, you have more ways to procure. These people make it so like there's a path to amnesty and then if you don't follow it, the penalties are like 10x what they were before. And then just once we have that shit settled, then you move forward with whatever, hopefully a new immigration policy is. But just going at it with a sick stick stick approach, like, again, by the end of the time, we're not deporting A million people that are in here right now in the interior, except for maybe some of the people that came in for the, the not amnesty, the asylum seeking shit. Maybe those guys will leave. But the problem is, like, never getting fixed. And then it just becomes like a virtue signal thing on both sides forever, and we don't get any closer to solving it.
- [59:24]
A
Yeah. So my thing is, I, I, I, I, I like your idea. I, I would put a little bit stricter, you know, be extremely productive for, you know, for you to stay here. You need to have show, like, you know, significant ties to community, are you contributing, what are you doing specifically, etc. And if that individual is, you know, obviously contributing to the country from a significant standpoint and they've been here for a significant amount of time, then we can, you know, figure something out. But I do think that, you know, just giving everybody a pass just to stick around when they're not contributing is, is a problem. And I do think that, you know, we should be more on the deportation side if they're not contributing. And I do think when it comes to visa, because we're not just getting beat when it comes to, you know, immigration just on people coming in illegally. I think our visa system is super flawed. People have used the student visa system. People abuse the marriage system where they, you know, commit marriage fraud. So we have to redo our entire immigration system. Our immigration need an immigration moratorium for at least one to five years, bare minimum.
- [60:16]
B
That would be scary for a variety of reasons, but the, the immigration is also absurdly fucking complicated. When I got married to Melissa, we did the K1 visa.
- [60:23]
A
Sorry to hear that, man.
- [60:24]
B
What? Listen, hey, it was about five years. Listen, relationships come and go. It's fine. When we were doing our immigration stuff.
- [60:30]
A
Yeah.
- [60:31]
B
I think the way that it works for the K1 visa is when we got engaged, she could come here and then had 90 days for us to get married. And then once we got married, technically you file. I don't remember the form of 184. I don't. I'm making numbers up. It's something that you file for adjustment of status change.
- [60:46]
A
Yeah, 485 or something like that.
- [60:48]
B
But while you're waiting for that, for the, between the K1 visa expiration and then while we were married waiting for that change of status, technically she's here illegally. So, like, she couldn't leave the country because if she tried to come back, they wouldn't let her. And if she did, did get caught anywhere, technically she could get expelled because she's not technically supposed to be here. And I feel like there's a lot of weird immigration like that, where you're in this weird kind of in between the world of.
- [61:06]
A
Yeah, where you're in limbos. Yeah, for sure.
- [61:08]
B
There was that one story with the. The Iranian wife. There was some guy who was married to some Iranian chick who was there for, I guess her LPR or green card got revoked like, 15 years ago. And they were working with, like, the State Department and, like, a lawyer to kind of get it back. And then randomly, she just gets, like, deported. She has, like, a family. There's, like, a normal woman who's, like, not doing any weird shit at all.
- [61:24]
A
Yeah.
- [61:24]
B
And it's like. Yeah, there's so much, like, fucking shit. And that's another thing that's frustrating is if you don't want to talk about immigration reform, which would include our visas and everything else, it's like, what the fuck are we actually doing?
- [61:32]
A
That's why. That's what I'm saying, like, you know, because I. I realize that, like, you know, obviously we got to do deportation, whatever, but I'm also on the other side. Like, we need to fix the entire system because the system is cooked, which is why we have all these problems. And we're not just getting beat because everyone looks at it like the border. The border, that's just one component. We're getting beat on visas with green cards, with how people adjust, you know, all different types of stuff, Right. The marriage, the K1 visa route that, you know, gave. Dude, there's an entire illegal organization that literally, they're like, oh, yeah, I'll get you a K1 visa and get you married for $20,000. Like, people are exploiting this stuff. So we need to reform the entire immigration thing. I think we need one to five year moratorium at least to fix it. But, yeah, the reason why I don't.
- [62:10]
B
Like the moratorium stuff is we're already attacking so much our harvesting of international talent with the whole visa with her students, and the attacks on our institutions.
- [62:17]
A
Which are, I think, is a problem. I think we need to focus more on getting 01s over here. People that, like, have actual real exceptional skills. Not, you know, jeets that are going to come in and code. Code.
- [62:27]
B
I mean, coding is the future. As much as people don't like it.
- [62:29]
A
Like, well, their coding sucks. We need Americans.
- [62:31]
B
If that was true, then we'd hire Americans. No offense, but American coders kind of suck. Well, a lot of people got tricked.
- [62:36]
A
It's because they're expensive.
- [62:36]
B
Well, sure, but I mean, like, what does that say?
- [62:39]
A
Well, well, they want to cut corners and they want to pay them less. And then also they can put them on a slave contract. Hey, you got to work here for four years and they just want me. Visa is a scam and Vivek is a retard.
- [62:48]
B
But yeah, I'm just saying that, like, if you go around the world for all the people, you know, Muslims that hate America, people in China, they hate America. Everybody hates America. Whoever, whoever hates America. America. Nobody's looking at America and being like, oh yeah, like Harvard and Yale and Columbia, what horrible aspects of the United States. Like, these are like our shining star. Like schools that are like super under attack by this administration. And then a lot of the, like, we agree on this. I can always agree with you when Israel's involved, if I'm on the other side of it, like this deporting people over like pro Palestine protests and shit. Like, what the fuck is so fucking stupid?
- [63:18]
A
And my position on that isn't even really from like a Hamas reason. My thing is because it's antithetical to the First Amendment. That's, that's why I'm so against it. Like, these people are here legally. We could be using those resources to go after people that are here illegally. And you're going after them for the, for using literally the First Amendment to.
- [63:33]
B
Go after to protest Israel is like.
- [63:35]
A
You know, and here's the thing, like these people that come in and say the stupid about global antifada, I don't agree with it, but like, my thing is like, they should have the right to say it because it's the United States of America.
- [63:43]
B
There's also, and we forget this because it's a social media era and everything else and every person has the same power online. But like, I reiterate this a lot. Like, people from 18 to 22 are fucking retarded. No offense, but they are so like kids are. They could put a camera in front of him. It could be online forever. Like if my, from when I was 14 or 15 was online forever, like, I would be.
- [64:00]
A
I was literally talking about that with a guy that like social media is like, yeah, it's a lot of young people.
- [64:04]
B
It's crazy because like, if you think of like Destiny Steven Vanilla, you think of like, you know, like Dean Withers or whatever, right? Yeah, like we have like voices online. Dean is like, this is a 20 year old guy, you know, and I'm 36 and like somebody could be 55 and at the end of the day, it's just how many followers you get, how many attention you get, how much attention you get. So, yeah, cracking down on like a 20 year old for saying some retarded at a protest is like, what? It's just, it's just self defeating, I think.
- [64:23]
A
Yeah, yeah. It's stupid. And again, it's antithetical to the First Amendment and us doing it. Like, it's crazy to me how like they could come in and say, I hate Trump, nobody cares. I hate Netanyahu, jail, deported, you know, so that's my thing.
- [64:35]
B
Yeah. I think all of us here are against cancel culture.
- [64:37]
A
Yeah. Yeah.
- [64:37]
B
Well, all three of us have been canceled.
- [64:38]
A
Are you pro since. No, I'm just kidding.
- [64:40]
B
I mean, it's going to be a lot more nuanced than that. But I don't know how you can say you're MAGA in anti cancel culture considering Trump is literally writing executive.
- [64:48]
You're not MAGA either. Right.
- [64:50]
A
You know, look, I like Trump there. You know, I voted for him. There's some things that I don't like that he does. I'm like, I'm able to be impartial and be critical of dumb shit that he does. Like, that's one thing between me and like, other people that like, I love Trump, they'll never criticize him. That's stupid. There's things that he does that I like and these things, Things that he does that I don't like. And I will call him out.
- [65:08]
B
Yeah.
- [65:09]
A
So that's my thing.
- [65:09]
B
Let's talk about this New York City mayor. Destiny, you support this guy or what? I'll support probably whatever Democrat gets to the primary. I mean, the guy is significantly to the left of me. But the way that I see it is socialist, ethnic, not even close. But the way that I see it is that left people tend to not be like authoritarian dictators like Trump is. So my guess is there's going to be some stuff that he wants to do that he just can't.
- [65:30]
A
Well, let me ask you this.
- [65:31]
B
Yeah.
- [65:32]
A
Because you're on the left, what do you think about your party going further and further towards socialism and further and further left?
- [65:39]
B
I think that online, I think in a lot of the media spaces, it.
- [65:41]
A
Looks like that aoc, Bernie, et cetera. Bernie run.
- [65:44]
B
Yeah, but Bernie and AOC are like hated now by these, like, far lefties online. AOC has moderated her position a lot since she first came into office. For sure. Bernie has been Bernie for.
- [65:52]
A
It's probably going to run away 28 maybe.
- [65:54]
B
But, like, where are the rest of these guys? Like Rashid Tlaib and. And the other two Justice Dems. I don't remember their names. Like, nobody knows these people anymore. Like, no more got elected to Congress. Like, that movement kind of died. I mean, in New York they ran Cuomo. I mean, what do you. Why? I mean, and then you had. Mandami probably ran a good campaign. I mean, it's absolutely going to win. Probably.
- [66:11]
A
I think he's going to win.
- [66:12]
B
Wow. But I mean, like I said, he's.
- [66:13]
A
Saying everything that, you know, I did a whole tweet on this. Like, why he's winning. Like, again, I don't agree with his political views, but he's literally saying everything that people in New York want to hear. Right. Fuck Israel. This shit's too expensive. Let's go ahead and make them grocery stores owned by the city so you can afford it. Like. Like, he's saying all the things that New Yorkers want to hear.
- [66:30]
B
I think half the shit will get. It will be impossible to do.
- [66:32]
A
Oh, he's not going to do it.
- [66:33]
B
I think, like, if he does try stuff, I mean, either some of it will work and then I'll change the way that I view some of it, or some of it will fail and I just have more stuff that I.
- [66:40]
A
Can point to and go to New York City. Like, yeah, it's going to be so hard for him to do anything. And the fact he's like, going at the Israel lobby in New York City, which is like the most populated Jewish population in the United States, they're going to fight back. I mean, like, Bill Ackman right now is getting like a big treasure chest of money to. To fight him off.
- [66:54]
B
Yeah.
- [66:55]
A
So we'll see what happens. But I do think he's going to win, but I think it's going to be nearly impossible for him to get anything done.
- [66:59]
B
So new some in Cali going against Trump. Where are you guys siding on that one? Obviously Newsome, my boy.
- [67:07]
A
You know, I think California's cooked, man. I just, you know, and it's showing. Like, we've seen a huge explosion in population in Texas and then a huge explosion of population in Florida. Right. Like, we see in Austin, Texas, the two hottest real estate markets. Right. I know this is an investor. Austin and like Miami pretty much over the past couple of years. It's cooling off now, but I think the people leaving says everything you need to know. Vegas also exploded in. I mean, you know that Vegas exploded into population.
- [67:33]
B
Yeah. But I was going to say, like, all they're. It's not like these places are exploding because they're amazing places to live. They're popular. It's because California's gotten so expensive because so many people already. So, like, all these. I know in Miami, people are complaining about increased cost of housing. In Austin, they definitely complain about it. So, like, yeah, they're gonna. They're on their way to the same problems, more or less in terms of stuff being unaffordable or.
- [67:50]
A
Yeah, but. But the point is, is that. I think the. The point is, is that blue cities tend to get expensive and then drive people out when they go to, you know, red states.
- [67:58]
B
My thing is, like, if. If California was in so much trouble, especially because of things like legal immigration, everything, why is Trump so keen on deporting people from California? Why not focus your efforts on places like Texas where you, like, you know, where you've got good relationships with governors and leaders, and then let California fail? Because.
- [68:12]
A
Because, because I could tell you this again, professional background, but, like, in Texas, they're far more like the local law enforcement. Like, Will, the only city in Texas, really, that's, like, lame on this is, like, Austin. But every other city in Texas, the local sheriffs and everything, they will help with immigration enforcement.
- [68:27]
B
Sure. But I'm saying, why not, like, California doesn't let them fall to illegal immigration and then come and clean up, basically.
- [68:33]
A
Well, you don't want it to get to that point because then it becomes really tough to actually enforce immigration the way you want if. If it, like, if it becomes too much of a problem, you mean, or.
- [68:41]
B
I mean, if you think it's like, so deleterious to the state, like, why not let it, like, why not let them suffer with that? Like, Trump likes to play games with FEMA funds all the time. Why not play games with illegal immigrants going to there?
- [68:51]
A
And I mean, I mean, it's. It's one thing to, like, you know, kind of teach him a lesson, but it's another thing to like, just let, like, illegals come in and just, just, like, ravage the place.
- [68:58]
B
I mean, I guess they sell their border enforcement. They could be on the. I mean, they can do that. So.
- [69:02]
A
But it's tough because, like, the state isn't helpful. So it's hard for them to do what they want to do versus, like, in Texas, the reason why we don't have these problems is, like, the sheriffs and the locals are way more happy about that. Right. Hell, there's like, Texas statute for, like, smuggling aliens. They never get it prosecuted. But there's a statute on the books for it, even though they're on Title 8.
- [69:18]
B
What about the Title 6 stuff going on in Cali? Have you guys been following that title with the transgender stuff stuff?
- [69:23]
A
I have not been following that.
- [69:24]
B
I don't give a. About transgender stuff. Okay, yeah, that's good. That's good. Conservatives have been obsessed with that for, like, six years.
- [69:31]
A
It's. It's a. It's. I've even been critical of it. Like, it's a 1% issue. It's like, yeah, we can make fun of them for being weirdos and. Well, like, there's other stuff to, you know, worry about. What. What else do we disagree about? That we hate each other on Destiny?
- [69:43]
B
Sure. You guys agreed a lot, to be honest.
- [69:46]
A
Well, I mean, we disagree on, like, foreign policy and shit in Israel. What else.
- [69:53]
B
You'Re against?
- [69:53]
A
We've done that so many times.
- [69:55]
B
You've done the feminism, dating stuff, I guess.
- [69:57]
A
Yeah.
- [69:59]
B
You're against foreign aid, just in general. Right. I think you came on a few months ago against what foreign aid? Like, entirely.
- [70:04]
A
Yeah, yeah. I dislike, like, foreign aid, especially when it comes to, like, military funding, I think is like. Like. No, Like, I. Yeah, I don't like foreign aid. I don't like. Yeah, especially when it comes to military.
- [70:15]
B
Okay, here's a question. I'm carrying serious.
- [70:17]
A
I have a non. To give you my foreign policy. Like, I have, like, a non interventionist mindset when it comes to that.
- [70:23]
B
That. Sorry, I said foreign policy. What, as of right now?
- [70:28]
A
Yeah.
- [70:29]
B
If you had to grade this admin for, like, F is a fail, A is a good job. Where would you grade them so far for foreign policy? On everything? Like, just how happy are you, I guess, with how the Trump admin is going to talk. I'm assuming that right now, if you could revote, you would still vote for Trump over Kamala.
- [70:42]
A
Yeah, I would. Okay. I would still vote for him over Kamala a lot. I'd give them a C right now. Okay. Like a C, C minus, depending on the day.
- [70:50]
B
Okay. And then what are you looking for by the end of the four years to be like, either. I'm glad they finally got this done. This is like, they are up to a B or an A or versus like, if they did this, they're like, this is too much like them. They didn't get. They didn't get this done or that done.
- [71:03]
A
You know, I'm really hoping that we can, like, de. Escalate or end the conflict in Russia or. Sorry, in, in Ukraine and like kind of, you know, make some type of diplomacy with Russia. Russia. The Middle east is cooked, man. Like, it's like we've just like completely enabled and emboldened Israel to conduct a bunch of bullshit. They're going to attack Iran again. That ceasefire is. So yeah, the immigration is okay. I. I think US spending money on going after anti Semitism is.
- [71:31]
But yeah. But I like the murder rates are down, which is good. The FBI is actually getting out there and like doing real versus sitting around and doing, you know, let's chase terror assault day. JTTF never does anything. So it's good that they're actually out there doing. Helping out with the raids. So, you know, I, I think these, these are all good things. Crime is down in general. But yeah, same question to you.
- [71:51]
B
Where do you rank this administration? F minus, obviously. I knew he'd say that.
- [71:56]
A
Yeah, of course. You know, it's interesting though because like whoever is like the administration, like the side that's in power, like now the Dems are like going to come at us. Right. Like the progressives, like they've been cooking Trump on this Epstein file thing for the days now. Right.
- [72:09]
B
So I knew everybody's cooking him on it. Right?
- [72:11]
A
Yeah. And then. And then when he bombed Iran, they came at us again like.
- [72:14]
B
I mean this was a guy who said no new wars. No new wars.
- [72:16]
A
I know.
- [72:17]
B
Again. Right.
- [72:17]
A
I knew you were gonna.
- [72:19]
B
Sure. I mean I think the Eric Adams stuff in New York is. That's just un.
- [72:24]
A
As soon as he took money from the Turks.
- [72:25]
B
Well, I'm saying the fact that the Trump admin basically blackmailed him and they're like open about it too. We're like, we're gonna delay all the prosecution until after the election.
- [72:32]
A
They pardoned them, dude. They pardoned him.
- [72:33]
B
But it was. Now it. The pardon with prejudice only came because that's the only thing the judge would approve because he's like, we're not going to do this, you know. You know, without prejudice. You can pursue it again basically when.
- [72:42]
A
The election allow the ICE race to happen. Don't give us time in New York City.
- [72:45]
B
Insane. All of the.
- [72:47]
A
I agree with that. I think that was. That was. That was stupid. Yeah.
- [72:49]
B
Yeah.
- [72:49]
A
That's why the U.S. attorney resigned for that shit.
- [72:52]
B
A lot of them resigned.
- [72:53]
A
Yeah. She was like, I don't want to be involved in this.
- [72:55]
B
Yeah, yeah. The writing executive order is targeting people. I think the. You want to talk about lawfare? I think that the legal stuff has been insane. Trying to sue like seltzer because. Because he's not happy with the Iowa polls, all of the weird lawsuits. Like, I used to argue against conservatives all the time where I'm like, it's not your first member right. To be on social media. Now Trump is like, getting all these settlements from these. From his friends who are like, oh, because he's suing, like, Twitter for banning him. Because he's saying that. Violent. My first. Not right.
- [73:17]
A
It's because. It's because they were colluding with the government to ban him.
- [73:20]
B
That's not what they were alleging in the civil cases. They were just saying that, like, his First Amendment right was violated and that's why they banned him. And so they were like. And he got payouts. He got settlements for like six different big companies over dumb shit like this. Was it ABC or NBC where the guy was like, he ranked.
- [73:33]
A
I know. He signed the executive. He signed the executive order. Basically. Like, the government can't coll social media companies to, you know, censor U.S. citizens.
- [73:39]
B
Sure, I guess. Although that never happened, but yeah, I.
- [73:42]
A
Mean, he signed it. That doesn't mean it gets passed, but.
- [73:44]
B
No, I know. No, no, I'm saying that the collusion with the social media companies, with the FBI and all that never really happened. Like, none of the Twitter files showed that.
- [73:50]
A
Oh, no, no, I was. I wasn't referring to that. No, no, no, I wasn't. I was referring to him signing the executive order in John General.
- [73:56]
B
Sure. Trying to get rid of birthright citizenship through executive order is crazy. I think.
- [74:01]
A
Yeah, I don't even know because I was. I think I was keeping up with that, but I didn't, like, I don't know where it's at right now.
- [74:07]
B
That's gonna be litigated.
- [74:08]
A
I know a judge. I know a judge, like, try to block it. The last I read.
- [74:12]
B
Yeah, that block went away. So now basically it would be, no, no more birth by soil for. Until the courts figure it out, which could be five or 10 years. So who knows?
- [74:21]
All the things with the tariffs and the trade deals that aren't materializing. I think it's been a disaster blowing up a relationship with.
- [74:27]
A
With. I think, I think the tariffs idea is good if implemented properly, but the problem is that they just wing winged it, dude. Like, that's the issue.
- [74:33]
B
Like, especially, like, it's too many contrary. Like, if you want to fight with China because you think that's the number one enemy, fine. But then that has to come. That has to coincide with the strengthening of our relationship with Canada and Mexico. It can't be fighting with everybody at the same time.
- [74:42]
A
Yeah, well, the other thing too is like, and, and I know this, I forget where I read this, but like, like, when he first announced the tariffs, a bunch of companies said, hey, we need, we want to have a meeting with Trump at the White House.
- [74:52]
B
They showed up, they want to get reprieved.
- [74:54]
A
We. Look, we will go ahead. If you're serious about this, we'll bring, you know, trade back here and we'll start bringing factories. But we need you to commit to this for like the whole time you're here.
- [75:02]
B
At least.
- [75:02]
A
Like. Yeah. And they couldn't give him a commitment, so it was like, oh, my God. So like, what is going on with these tariffs? Is this more of a negotiation tool versus, like actually trying to bring trade back? Because, like, if you're going to do the tariffs, you got to do it right. And the thing is that they just winged it, dude. I think if you do it properly, it absolutely can work.
- [75:17]
B
Maybe, but that's.
- [75:19]
A
But something too also that's like a big red pill that people don't know is like, like, you can't be a huge consumer, but then also become a huge producer because if you're a huge consumer, well, if you produce it, you're going to. And you have the reserve currency, it's too expensive to produce it. Does that make sense? It's too. You have to ship it off to other places that you could continue to just consume at the rate that you consume.
- [75:39]
B
Kind of. Yeah. I mean, it's complicated though, because there are benefits.
- [75:41]
A
A tripping dilemma is what it's called. Basically, you have reserve currency, you're always going to have trade deficit.
- [75:44]
B
But there's a benefit to that as well and that we can fund a lot of our government without having to do like exorbitant interest rates because there's always going to be people who want to buy treasury bonds and shit because everybody's holding USD. So.
- [75:53]
A
Yes.
- [75:53]
B
Yeah.
- [75:56]
The.
- [75:56]
A
So I. Japan started selling their. And we were like, they had to back off on the terrorists. Yeah, the.
- [76:01]
B
I like, I can joke and Myron can joke on Twitter because we're just random retest on Twitter. The president joking about like invading Greenland and invading Panama and Canada to 51st day. Like, it's not. That's really spooky shit to hear from a guy who is otherwise also like very fucking unhinged. So I mean, like, yeah, I don't know. There's a lot of. A lot of not great shit, I would say.
- [76:20]
A
Yeah, no, it could. Again, I don't know where the that came from, but I. I think that a little bit of Elon in his.
- [76:27]
B
Ear or whatever, like, being really obsessed with the South Africa for like, one week, because Elon was probably talking to him about the white genocide stuff and.
- [76:34]
A
Yeah, well, he needed to pivot after the H1B visa debacle.
- [76:37]
B
Sure.
- [76:37]
A
He needed a pivot after that. What's your thoughts on Elon?
- [76:40]
B
I think he's one of the dumbest I've ever seen in my entire life. I don't know if the ketamine, like, drilled a hole in his prefrontal cortex and he's like a, you know, 85 IQ and dropping every day, but I.
- [76:48]
A
Hate to say that I agree with you on.
- [76:49]
B
That's interesting. If you look at older videos of his.
- [76:52]
A
Elon pissed me off, bro, like, big time. Like, wrote a go ahead, I'll give my grievances after.
- [76:58]
B
No, like, if you look at older videos of this, it seems like he's like. He doesn't talk as, like, eloquently, but I don't know how to explain this. People. There's a way when somebody's speaking, even if they're like, a little autistic, like, they're searching for words because they understand the concepts and what they're talking about. And now Elon is just like. It sounds like a meme, but it says something. If I were to lie to you. Okay, okay. About my gym numbers. Okay.
- [77:18]
A
If I were to. What gym?
- [77:19]
B
My gym numbers. If I were to tell you, like.
- [77:20]
A
Listen, you go to the gym, though, sometimes.
- [77:22]
B
If I were to tell you, like, three months ago. Okay. You know, I could put up, like, for one rep, 225. Okay.
- [77:28]
A
Yeah, yeah.
- [77:30]
B
It's. It's.
- [77:30]
A
I'd be like, no way. Maybe.
- [77:32]
B
But, like, it's Pixar.
- [77:33]
A
Didn't happen.
- [77:33]
B
Sure. But if I were to tell you I was doing 405.
- [77:35]
A
Yeah.
- [77:36]
B
Like, it doesn't just say that I'm lying. It says I'm a idiot.
- [77:39]
A
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
- [77:40]
B
When Elon Musk paid somebody to boost his Path of Exile account. Whatever.
- [77:44]
A
Oh, yeah.
- [77:45]
B
But when he.
- [77:45]
A
That's what him and were fighting about, right?
- [77:47]
B
I. Who.
- [77:48]
A
Oh, as we go. Yeah, it was him and Osmond fighting.
- [77:50]
B
Streamed it. And then he started talking through his gear, and it's like, not only are you fucking, like, sure, you paid so many boosts or whatever, but you think that you can lie about that in front of a bunch of nerd gamers who are grinding 18 hours a day in this. Like, it says something about your mind to be. That's what you're saying. Arrogant and stupid and. Yeah. And yeah, like this America First Party. I don't think Elon realizes Elon, all of his political clothes clout was on loan from Trump.
- [78:12]
A
Yes.
- [78:12]
B
Without Trump, he. This America first party is literally going nowhere.
- [78:15]
A
It's cooked. And that's why, like, that's why he's trying to siphon off. I don't know if you noticed with Thomas Massie, because Thomas Massey has like a very.
- [78:21]
B
About the. Was it on the Iran stuff that he was mad on Trump on.
- [78:24]
A
No, the big beautiful bill.
- [78:25]
B
Oh, it was okay.
- [78:27]
A
And I was explaining to you, like, I. I see why he's mad because literally Tesla stock dumped. You know, most people that drive EV cars are Democrats and conservative, sorry, progressives, you know, conservatives. Most of us think like, you know, know ev. What the fuck?
- [78:40]
B
Like, environment, regardless of size. Most business leaders like, getting into politics is not good for business.
- [78:44]
A
It's not.
- [78:45]
B
Not no matter what.
- [78:46]
A
It's terrible. So. So like he lost billions of dollars in net worth. Hundreds to support. Hundreds. Yeah, yeah. Like, literally to support Trump. And then he passes this bill, he's like, dude, what the fuck? I put all this work in and you're just like undoing it with this bill. So obviously I can see why he's mad. But yes, I see your position where, dude, when you have money like him and whatever, he has to fuck you money.
- [79:04]
B
Funny.
- [79:05]
A
Like, no one ever tells him no. So, like, like you were saying, like, the degree of mindset you have to have to like, lie about something so trivial says that you literally probably think you're a God and you're a weirdo. But dude, that's all these idiots. Peter Till, Alex Karp, whatever, anytime I hear these tech guys talk, they're weirdos. They speak in a strange manner. Nothing makes sense. They don't say anything.
- [79:22]
B
Something from that song World was Weird.
- [79:24]
A
Dude, they're retarded.
- [79:25]
B
I didn't know if like, I was either getting like, arrogant or I listen.
- [79:27]
A
To Alex Carp talk.
- [79:29]
B
I don't think I've listened to him talk about. I've listened to a lot of the crypto guys talking, but I listened like, anything. Okay. I listened to 10 minutes of Bezos on Lex because I'm like, are all guy's retarded. Business knows his shit. That sounds like a guy who, like, did in his life. I'm like, okay, this guy seems like he, yeah. Understands something. Listening to all of the. Who's the one guy. He looks like Notch the Minecraft maker.
- [79:46]
A
Peter Teal.
- [79:47]
B
There's another Mart Andreessen or whatever. Yeah, these guys are all like. Like, they talk like, they think that. Yeah. It's like when you meet some kid who's like, oh, I've got like, net worth $5 million and I'm 25 and I can coach you on like, finance. Like, oh, wow, how'd you make your money? And it's like, I bought bitcoin and forgot about it. And bro, you got lucky.
- [80:03]
A
Yeah.
- [80:04]
B
Cash that shit out, shut the up and go be happy that you got lucky as fuck. Because you don't know anything about what you're talking. Like. Yeah, the whole tech world feels like that sometimes. Yeah.
- [80:10]
A
And it's even worse because they can't even talk properly to, like, make you think that they're intelligent. They're a bunch of word salad.
- [80:15]
B
So they don't have any of the charisma either, which is a thing they're not realizing. Again, Elon Musk is a weirdo. Like, that's a guy that conservatives will not like without Trump.
- [80:23]
A
At the, the. The event where he pulled out the chainsaw. He said chainsaw to bureaucracy. And I was like, this guy's so.
- [80:30]
B
The same one where he had the sunglasses on.
- [80:31]
A
Yes, yes, yes.
- [80:32]
B
He was high. As for that dude.
- [80:33]
A
Yeah, dude, like, and he couldn't get. People don't. Like, you probably know this. You couldn't get a clearance for a long time. Like, you couldn't get a clear. Because he does drugs.
- [80:41]
B
I feel like the cringiest thing I ever had somebody point out to me, you know that jump he used to do all the time? Right when he would jump on stage.
- [80:47]
A
Oh, yeah. With. Yeah. And his belly hangs out. And you know why.
- [80:50]
B
Do you know why he does that jump?
- [80:52]
A
Why?
- [80:52]
B
He's making a X. Oh, my God. And if you go and look at picture after picture, I'm like, oh, my God.
- [80:58]
A
How do you know that?
- [80:59]
B
Somebody emailed me. Like, bro, look at like, there's like 10 pictures. He's trying to make the X when he jumps. And I'm like, oh, fuck. That's why he looks so fucking goofy. But his kid, that one with the weird name, he calls him X. That was the first letter. But he bought that X domain in like 97. And he renamed Twitter X and space X. And he's like a retard. He's like an actual retard.
- [81:14]
A
Yeah, Just one of these, like, people that, like, thinks they're God, dude. Like, you know what I mean?
- [81:18]
B
I was gonna talk to Joe Rogan on more gamers and he's like, yeah, pro gamers should like, everybody that does surgery should learn how to play pro games because they have a, he said they have a 20 millisecond reaction time. And it's like reaction time for humans is like, I think 120 is the theoretical max because that's how long it takes for the ion channels to like 10, 20 milliseconds. Like, like to even say that you've never played a game in your life because it's impossible to react to anything.
- [81:36]
A
Yeah, he's just so he'll talk about things that he doesn't know about in an authoritative or authoritative manner. And then anyone that actually knows what the they're talking about, like what the hell is this guy talking about? But it's so nuanced that only a small group of people will know about it to call him out on it. And then if you do call them out on, you're like, oh, shut the up.
- [81:49]
B
But then that's because he jumped into so many different topics when he was talking about Twitter. He's like, yeah, we, some guy, some. An actual software dev hopped on. He was like, we need to redo the whole Twitter stack. And I was like, what do you mean when you say. He's like, well we need to, we need to redo all of it. And they, the guy's like, what part of it don't you like? And he's like, well, you know the whole thing. And he's like walk me through it, top to bottom. Elon. And he's like, get this out of the car. You know who he's talking about?
- [82:08]
A
I don't, I don't know why he keeps like having him on. Like he's just. Yeah, but yeah, he's, he's a fraud dude. Like Greg Reese like did a whole thing on him, like exposing like, like everything that he did is like other people did the work and just comes in and takes credit for it.
- [82:20]
B
Have you seen the videos of some people in like these self driving cars where they like stop in the middle of the intersection. It's like, oh, I guess we have to get out now because they, they, they. I think it was in Austin they started trying the Tesla self driving.
- [82:30]
A
Yes, yes. Yeah, yeah, that's. Yeah, everything is, is, is cooked. But I like again, as critical as I am of him, I know why I, he has a right to be pissed off with the whole Trump thing. Like with the big beautiful Bill, because, like, he put all this time and money into Doge, didn't get paid for it, lost hundreds of billions of dollars in net worth, and boom. Like, nothing to show for it. Yeah, literally nothing to show for. Investors all pissed off, off. You got to go back to work and work a full work week. Like, yeah, cooked.
- [82:56]
B
I know you mentioned video games. You guys disagree strongly on video games. Last time you came on the show, you said you got to make 100k a year to start playing video games. As a man.
- [83:04]
A
Yeah, I, I, I don't think a guy should even, yeah, bother with playing video games unless he's making six figures a year. Because, like, you, you, like, you're not making six figures a year and you're over that tell you have too much free time. You need to make at least six figures before you play any video games.
- [83:15]
B
Do you agree with that?
- [83:16]
A
No.
- [83:16]
B
I think you should. Like, life has to be a balance. Some people are designed to grind. I remember the first time I went to the Fresh and Fit Studio, this autistic research. He's walking around, like, every camera, adjusting everything, and I'm like, he's got, like, he's got, like, the grind. Like, this guy will stay up, like, 16 hours a day learning whatever he deserves, but for a lot of people, you need, like, a little bit of free time. The problem with gaming is, gaming is just, it's a thing that's easy to overindulge in.
- [83:38]
A
Right?
- [83:38]
B
And like, if you are, like, if you're playing, you know, like eight hours a day and you're doing whatever.
- [83:42]
A
And that's, and that's the problem because it's a slippery slope, dude. Like, like they don't have the discipline to go out work. So, like, do you think they had the discipline? Like, oh, you know, I've been playing for, like, 20 hours. Let me, like, get up and do something. It's like, no, make the money first, Learn the discipline there. Then, like, you go to play video games. Yeah, I, I mean, I think a bit. Well, going this will actually add to your argument here. Like, the reason why so many guys, like, struggle with women is because they're losers. Like, let's be honest here. Like, they're not achieving what they need to achieve. And, you know, again, though, I'm critical of feminism and women being hoes and everything else like that. You know, a big part of it is like, well, I got to make my own money because a lot of guys are fucking losers. So that's why. Because dudes are lazy.
- [84:17]
B
Yeah. So it's hard nowadays. Like, we don't talk about it as much, but when it comes to technology, like, the issue today is like, you are competing, like this show, everything else. You are competing with everything else in the world at all points in time because of the phone. Right. Everything you do, you have to be able to capture somebody's attention away from a game, from a phone, from whatever else. And that's. It's hard without. You have to discipline yourself at an early age to not be sucked into that. Because video games are designed, it's. It's like gambling, almost. Like it's optimally designed.
- [84:42]
A
And they're worse. They're way worse.
- [84:45]
B
Like, like a Call of Duty game. And it's like, I just got 47 experience towards this gun, and I got 27 battle points towards my pass, and I got 48 things through here, and I got to queue up to the next game. And yeah, it's like, yeah, I'm playing Marvel versus Rivals.
- [84:55]
A
Like, you know, I can see why people get addicted to it or whatever.
- [84:57]
B
Yeah.
- [84:57]
A
But I always play it, like, after I'm done streaming and everything. And I'll. I'm like, I'll play it on stream. So it's like, makes sense. So I got pull like these set up, like, little things here to make sure I don't, like, fuck myself up.
- [85:06]
B
You guys monetize it when you play video games?
- [85:08]
A
Yeah, I do it. Yeah. Like, I'm going to play.
- [85:10]
B
Like, I feel. I view games are kind like drugs, I think. Like, I think drugs are, like, good. Like, it's like a recreational, like, enhancement thing. But if it becomes, like, habitual, it's not good. Like, I don't think there's anything bad about it. If you want to smoke weed on the weekend or if you're hanging out with friends or whatever, that's one thing. But if you're doing something every single day and it's like part of your routine, I can get really scary, I think.
- [85:26]
A
So that's. Let me ask you this. What are your views on, like, feminism now?
- [85:30]
B
Probably the same as they were before, except I hate women a little bit more now. So.
- [85:35]
When I hook up with a chick, I'd be like, do you vote Trump or would you agree that women.
- [85:40]
A
For Trump, then I'm second most things.
- [85:41]
B
Then, like, the women suck at most things. I probably would, but I don't say men suck at most things. So, you know.
- [85:45]
A
Okay, well, I think women suck at most things. It's. Give you credit, all the girls that try to do what you do. They suck at what? They suck.
- [85:50]
B
When I hang out with progressive women, usually they like the fact that I'm more aggressive or masculine coded or whatever. My demeanor. When I hang out with conservative women, though, they're like, I like somebody who's not like a loser because, like, conservative guys will say, like, all these women are sluts and hoes and shit. But it's like, if you're a conservative woman and you walk into area and you're like, okay, well, where are all these, like, good conservative men who. Who are working hard, saving themselves, like, doing all this other shit? You can't find them either. So, like, everybody's. We all deserve each other.
- [86:13]
A
Yeah, well, yeah, I mean, well, it's a fine because a lot of guys, like, you know, subscribe to the whole, you know, feminist ideology, egalitarianism, whatever. So I think that's a big problem for women because on one end, they want to be strong and independent and be their own woman. But at the same time it's like, well, I want a guy that's going to have conservative values. And like, unfortunately, the two are difficult to mesh together because, like, a guy that's conservative, that's more traditional. Traditional, typically is going to want a girl that's more, you know, independent and, you know, believing in feminism.
- [86:39]
B
Orthodox APAC people buy out the whole government. They can push us towards a more traditional lifestyle.
- [86:45]
A
Well, they won't accept any of us. We're all going to them. Like, they're. They're gonna. They're gonna be like, we. We got to end them all. So it is.
- [86:51]
B
Could you be with a liberal and destiny, can you be with a conservative.
- [86:55]
A
Dating wise long, like a real relationship.
- [86:57]
B
Or just real relationship?
- [86:59]
A
No.
- [86:59]
B
It's a deal breaker for you.
- [87:00]
A
I wouldn't be able to because, like, she would think she's equal to me. And I have to remind her all the time that she's inferior.
- [87:07]
B
It really depends on, like, what Destiny's War, Red Pill.
- [87:09]
A
A lot of women, though. This is like, you don't understand how excited I am.
- [87:12]
B
It really depends on, like, I think on where the disagreements are. Like, I think there are some things that you can get over and there are some things that you probably can't. Like, if you're like, if you've got somebody who's genuinely like, like, pro. Massively pro trans with somebody who's like, massively, like super racist or something. I don't know, know, like, these people are probably not going to get along meaningfully. And then it depends on how Far you go in the relationship too. Like, I could be with somebody probably who's like, Christian or religious, but, like, if we would have kids, that would get a lot harder because it's like. Like how. Yeah, so I don't know. It depends. I don't think you need. If you need 100. Ideological alignment with your partner, I think that's a problem. You should be able to have some disagreements, but it's going to have to be certain types of disagreements. Like some are irreconcilable and others are, you know.
- [87:52]
A
Yeah, I would agree with that. I mean, like, again, small. Small discriminants here and there, but yeah, I think in general, you know, the man's worldview has to prevail over the woman's worldview. And I. Or, or if she, let's say she doesn't have those worldviews when you guys first meet, at some point she's got to be amenable to change her mind because I think if the woman's worldview dominates the relationship, you're cooked. That's what I think. I think you disagree with that.
- [88:13]
B
I think there's going to be a meet in the middle. But I mean, you think meeting in.
- [88:16]
A
The middle is the way to go.
- [88:17]
B
Probably, yeah.
- [88:19]
A
So my only problem with, like, meeting in the middle, maybe it's because I'm a raging misogist. I don't know. I think women are a fair team, men. So I. I don't think like. And when I say this, I mean it like from a relationship paradigm. Like, not from a human rights perspective, but like, from a relationship paradigm. Like, I look at it like, if she's the authority and she's the one leading the relationship, it's just inevitably going to lead to problems. Whereas, like, if it's your frame, like, it's more natural for it to follow you. Does that make sense? So, like, versus Versus.
- [88:46]
B
I mean, it depends on. Real quick. When are we supposed to be out here? We got six minutes. Okay.
- [88:50]
A
Oh, shit. Okay.
- [88:51]
B
Yeah. When it comes to, like, this might.
- [88:52]
A
Be opening up a can of worms, that's. Yeah.
- [88:55]
B
It has to be grounded out in examples. Like, I don't agree with that, like, leading the relationship thing because I think that different people lead in areas depending on where they. Where they excel at. So for instance, like, like a man might be leading in terms of, like, you know, he works a certain job and so he's going to dictate the family schedule, maybe even like, where you live to some extent. If he's got to move for Work. But like, I seriously doubt the man is going to be like, telling the woman, this is the grocery list. You need to buy these things for the household. You need to do this. Or like, you have to make sure they go to school and all that. Like, the woman will be like a leader. Like in areas where you butt head heads. I would be surprised if a relationship survives very long if there's like a constant. Like, one person wants this and the other person, like, doing this.
- [89:28]
A
Let me clarify because, yes, you're correct. My position is anything significant that needs to be done, the man needs to be the main decision maker. And then, like, I see what you're saying, like, delegate authority. She does this, she does that, blah, blah, blah. But at the end of the day, like, she's operating, like when she's grocery shopping, I'm buying the food that my husband likes and the kids. Like, I'm buying what, you know, what he likes.
- [89:48]
B
Likes.
- [89:48]
A
So though she is the one making.
- [89:50]
B
I'm earning the money that my family likes to spend.
- [89:52]
A
You know, I mean, yeah, that's, that's your duty as the man is to support the family. But like, my, my thing is I, I think the, the. The general frame of the relationship has to be controlled by the man.
- [90:03]
B
I'm curious, like, what is like one. Like, give me an example of like a big disagreement issue on that. Because for a lot of these, I would view these as being basically relationship enders if you have a significant disagreement here.
- [90:12]
A
Okay, so like a rel. When you say that, you mean as in, like, what would. Like, if we, If I disagreed on this, I wouldn't with her at all.
- [90:18]
B
What? No, no. Like if a man and a woman. Woman, where the woman has to follow the man's lead on something they disagree on. Like, what would be an example issue like that where they. It's both in their domain where they both have a strong opinion on it, but the woman eventually has to acquiesce to the man. Like, what would an example topic be for that?
- [90:32]
A
Oh, yeah, sure. On politics.
- [90:34]
B
Like, like how she votes or like, well, women.
- [90:37]
A
I don't think women should. But that was actually on the list. I don't think women should vote. I don't. I know you probably disagree with that.
- [90:41]
B
Probably.
- [90:41]
A
I think we should repeal the 19th amendment. But. And I could give my position why. But like, for example, if she, like, doesn't align with you politically or ideologically, like on certain cultural things, like, that's a deal breaker. Like if she, you know, like, if she's like, A raging Democrat. Right. And you're a conservative. Like, that's probably going to create problems for you.
- [91:00]
B
These are probably deal breakers to date, period.
- [91:02]
A
Yeah, of course. Of course. Yeah. Like, she's got to be on the.
- [91:04]
B
Frame issue where it's like, the woman strongly believes one thing and the man strongly believes another. Like, let's say that, like, you've got family in Arkansas and family in Nebraska, and you guys live in Iowa. And it's like, okay, okay, 50, 50. We need to figure out where we want to move and one side just like, we're going here or it's over. Like, I don't think there's ever a world where it's like, the one's like, okay, yeah, we'll go live with your family. I agree with that. 100.
- [91:21]
A
Like, yeah, I would think the man needs to make the decision there.
- [91:24]
B
But.
- [91:24]
A
But the thing is, is that when he picks words move 9 out of 10 times going to be because of where he works. Right. So I guess for the betterment of the.
- [91:29]
B
So that's what I'm trying to think of. Like, when you say the woman follows the man, like, on what issue? Like, what is like, a thing they could have a disagreement on where she wouldn't follow him. Where she has to follow him where she has to. Because it feels like everything that you're following the man on, the husband's gonna be following the woman on, like, on the things that she's doing, and then she's following him on the things that he's doing. Like, where are these disag disagreements? Does that make sense what I'm saying?
- [91:46]
A
I'm a little confused by.
- [91:47]
B
When you say the woman has to follow the man, the implication is that both of them might have an opinion on the same thing, but the woman has to acquiesce to the man's opinion on it. So I'm asking, like, what topic could that ever be?
- [91:57]
A
Well, then she's also following because she has the same world view too.
- [92:01]
B
Okay.
- [92:03]
Like, it's not like, in the same path. Then you're not really.
- [92:05]
A
Yeah, like. Like she. She agrees with the worldview, which is why it's so much easier for her to follow. But let's say there is a. To answer your question. Question, let's say there's discrepancy in worldview. At the end of the day, even if she doesn't like it, she's got to follow him. Is my. My position.
- [92:17]
B
Sure. Like what worldview? Like, what topic, subject, thing?
- [92:21]
A
It could be. It could be argue okay, let's say they both have a job, right? Like, my job is here, your job is here. We gotta move, though, because I make more money here. She needs to follow the man, even though, and be willing to sacrifice her career for him.
- [92:33]
B
I would agree that you say that, but there is an important added thing that you put there, which is because he makes more money. Money. So, like, do you think that. That the same thing we follow? Let's say a Guy's working, he's 40, 50k a year, and she's doing some nice HR job. She's making 120 a year, and the guy's like, I've got an opportunity to make 60, 000 a year. We gotta move. Does the woman be like, yeah, well.
- [92:49]
A
This is where I come in, where.
- [92:50]
B
I say women shouldn't have more money than.
- [92:52]
A
Yeah, you need to make more money than your girl. So, like, that wouldn't even happen in my worldview because it's like, you need to make enough money. My position is you need to make so much goddamn money where she works off of wanting to do it. And it's a job where it's from home, so it's elective. I don't think women should be in the work workplace when she's with you from a position where she has to. It needs to be elective. And I think whenever a woman makes more money than her man, it just creates problems.
- [93:15]
B
Okay. Obviously, that's a whole other episode.
- [93:18]
A
Yeah, that is a whole. I mean, we could do a part two on that if you want. We could do a. We could. We could do a feminism or relationship debate if you want.
- [93:24]
B
We'll have fun with your. Have fun with your anti Trump tour and have fun on the streets of Miami.
- [93:28]
A
Absolutely, man. Destiny, it's always good talking to you, man.
- [93:30]
B
Thanks a lot, man. I appreciate it.