Digital Marketing's Dark Secret: How Ads Drain Your Profits | Kasim Aslam DSH #734

Summary

Digital Social Hour Episode #734: Digital Marketing's Dark Secret: How Ads Drain Your Profits Host: Sean Kelly
Guest: Kasim Aslam
Release Date: September 18, 2024

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1. Introduction and Personal Journeys

Kasim Aslam opens the discussion by sharing his transformative experiences with psychedelic mushrooms. He describes these journeys as profound and healing, marking significant personal insights and growth.

"I've done two journeys and they've been the most profound experience of my life." (03:25)

2. Psychedelic Experiences and Spiritual Awakening

Kasim delves deeper into his encounters with psychedelics, emphasizing their structured and intentional use. He contrasts different strains of mushrooms and their unique effects, portraying them as tools for spiritual connection and personal enlightenment.

"The first one was much softer... And then the second one was feminine in temperament." (05:29)

He discusses the neurological impact of mushrooms, explaining how they can smooth out mental grooves, allowing for greater flexibility in thought and behavior.

"Mushrooms... smooth out the grooves. So you come out of it not like a changed person per se, but with the ability to change." (04:23)

3. The Trap of Success and Identity

Kasim reflects on the concept of success and its potential to entrap individuals in a "false self." Drawing from Richard Rohr's ideas, he explains how societal rewards and external projections can distort one's true identity.

"Getting caught in success is getting caught in your false self... it's such a gilded cage." (02:31)

He expresses uncertainty about how to break free from this trap, positioning himself as someone seeking answers rather than providing them.

4. Time Management and Its Value

A significant portion of the conversation centers around the value of time versus money. Kasim emphasizes that time is the most valuable resource, advocating for its deliberate and purposeful use.

"Time is all you have from a life perspective... money is a representation of time." (11:42)

He critiques traditional time-tracking methods in business, arguing for performance-based compensation that measures output rather than hours worked.

"How are you measuring their work output?... People are going to gamify the system." (32:45)

5. Critique of the Prison System

Kasim shares a personal and harrowing account of his younger brother's experience with the U.S. prison system. He argues that the system perpetuates itself by creating a cycle of incarceration, describing it as an "animal factory."

"Prison becomes an animal factory where we introduce them to the network and the people... We have the largest prison population in the world." (19:08)

He underscores the systemic issues that lead to high recidivism rates, highlighting the lack of support and rehabilitation for prisoners.

6. International Hiring and Business Strategies

Transitioning to business insights, Kasim discusses his passion for hiring international talent, particularly from Latin America. He highlights the economic advantages and high skill levels of professionals in countries like Argentina.

"Making international talent accessible to western companies... smart people exist all over the world." (29:05)

Kasim outlines his approach to hiring, emphasizing output-based compensation and fostering symbiotic relationships that benefit both the employer and the employee.

"The output should be the measure upon which people are paid... I'm not going to pay that way either." (34:49)

7. Meta and Google's Ad Algorithms: Draining Profits

A critical segment of the episode focuses on how Meta and Google's advertising algorithms are designed to maximize their own profits at the expense of advertisers. Kasim draws an analogy to an auctioneer exploiting bidders, explaining how these platforms manipulate ad costs as campaigns become successful.

"Their mechanism... is built to maximize the profit potential of their inventory." (36:07)

He provides a strategic hack for advertisers: by not tracking conversions directly on Meta and Google, businesses can significantly reduce their cost per traffic.

"Don't track conversions... you'll notice that your cost per traffic will be fractions." (38:06)

Kasim warns of a "traffic bubble" where ad platforms are siphoning profits from entrepreneurs, predicting a potential collapse that could open new opportunities.

"We're looking at a traffic bubble that's stealing all entrepreneurial profitability. And it's going to be really interesting to see because I think the bubble is going to burst." (40:28)

8. Personal Reflections on Forgiveness and Trauma

Towards the end, Kasim shares intimate reflections on forgiveness and his own traumas. He recounts a pivotal moment from his past where he abandoned his younger brother, leading to long-lasting guilt and a journey toward self-forgiveness.

"I need to learn what forgiveness means... because forgiveness feels like betrayal." (23:40)

He describes a transformative experience where he metaphorically meets his 19-year-old self, leading to a deeper understanding and healing process.

"I got to hug myself at 19 years old... I've started the journey and it's so healing." (25:46)

9. Closing Thoughts and Future Endeavors

In his closing remarks, Kasim touches on his current passions, including employing talent from emerging nations and his involvement with mastermind groups. He expresses gratitude for the opportunity to share his story and insights.

"I like employing emerging people in emerging nations... I really appreciate you having me on." (40:42)

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Notable Quotes with Timestamps

• "Getting caught in success is getting caught in your false self... it's such a gilded cage." (02:31)
• "Time is all you have from a life perspective... money is a representation of time." (11:42)
• "Prison becomes an animal factory where we introduce them to the network and the people... We have the largest prison population in the world." (19:08)
• "Don't track conversions... you'll notice that your cost per traffic will be fractions." (38:06)
• "I need to learn what forgiveness means... because forgiveness feels like betrayal." (23:40)

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Conclusion

In this episode of Digital Social Hour, Kasim Aslam offers a rich blend of personal anecdotes, spiritual insights, and sharp business acumen. From detailing his transformative experiences with psychedelics to critiquing major advertising platforms and reflecting on deep personal traumas, Kasim provides listeners with a multifaceted perspective on success, time management, and the hidden costs within digital marketing. His emphasis on output-based business models and international hiring presents actionable strategies for entrepreneurs seeking to optimize profits and foster meaningful work relationships. Additionally, his vulnerability in discussing forgiveness and trauma offers a profound human element to the conversation, making this episode both informative and emotionally resonant.

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Feel free to reach out to Kasim Aslam through his social channels linked below the episode for more insights and discussions.

Transcript

[A]

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[B]

So you did mushrooms both times.

[A]

It was interesting. It was softer. It was far more masculine in temperament, but softer. And then the second one was feminine in temperament, but kind of harsh. Like, kind of. It sort of was, like, teasing. I had the most healing experience of my life the first time. Every iteration of me from the age of. From a newborn to 19. And then I. I thought I stopped there, but then it kept going. And then I met myself in the future.

[B]

All right, guys, we got costume here. Coming off an injury.

[A]

Yeah, but I'm back.

[B]

Yeah, he's. And he just said it was a. An eye opening moment.

[A]

It was. It was fun to be in pain. Is that weird to say?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Like, dude, I'm not. This isn't a cry for help. I don't need therapy. But I'm 40 years old or I'm 39. I've got two little boys. And your days just get so routine. And I. I went head over the handlebars on my bike and, like, bad. And I got up and I was like, that was awesome. You know, like all of a sudden. Because you don't realize what it takes to bring you into your body.

[B]

Right.

[A]

And obviously I don't want to go run around hurt myself, but I would like to just position my existence so that I feel, you know, like you don't realize how much you're not feeling.

[B]

Yeah, we're getting deep off the bat.

[A]

Right out of the gate. Yeah.

[B]

No, but that's. That's deep from you because you sold the company. You've amassed massive wealth, so you're kind of lost. Right. And you're kind of looking for that purpose.

[A]

Isn't that funny, the way that works? Yeah. I was reading. I was reading Richard Rohr and who's really. He's a Franciscan monk type, and he was talking about the trap of success. And he said that getting caught in success is getting caught in your false self. Because then people talk to you about, oh, you made an exit, and that's who you are now. And you have to kind of take that and swallow it. And. And it's so easy to do because you're rewarded for that behavior and the projection that other people make. Ends up being your identity. And it's such a gilded cage.

[B]

Wow.

[A]

So how do you break that? And the true. I don't know. Like, I don't. I'm not here with answers, Sean. I'm here with questions. But yeah, that's. It's. I was terror stricken as a child. I was raised in poverty, Right. Like American poverty. And I always thought money would solve all my problems. And what's interesting is it's not the. It's not the reverse because a lot of people that make a bunch of money, like, oh, I was wrong. The safety is beautiful. Love that. And I love feeling safe. And I love knowing I'm never going to have to worry about that again.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

But it isn't the answer, you know, like, there's no, there's no purpose to money. Stand alone. It's what money can do for you. And that's been a really fun journey to like, just figuring out, like, oh, wow, look at the options available to me.

[B]

Yeah. So have you pursued the spiritual awakening? Oh, psychedelic stuff.

[A]

Yeah, I have. I've gone on to. This is funny. I haven't talked about this at all. So let's give. I've done two journeys. I've never touched anything mood altering before in my life.

[B]

Not even weed?

[A]

No. Like, I'm. Dude, I think I smoked weed twice in high school and then just got scared of it because I was like, I know I like this, but I also don't like being in. Not being in control. And I've done two journeys back to back, guided. Like, I did it the right way, you know, like you do the integration before, the integration after. There's a person who, you know, helps. She sources it from a community that actually they grow it as though it's a prayer.

[B]

Wow.

[A]

Which I mean, you know, it's not just like, oh, this strain is the most powerful. Whatever, whatever. Like, it's very. It's adherent to the idea that there's religiosity embedded in that which would connect us to the divine. And I've done two journeys and they've been the most profound experience of my life. And I know that's obnoxious to say because if you've done it, you're like, of course. And if you haven't done it, you're like, you're a druggie. But for those that are on the fence, all I'll say is I was pushed in that direction because there were people that I respected that pursued that. And if I can be one data point in the direction of man. It's worth trying.

[B]

Interesting.

[A]

I've never. I've never experienced anything like that. Somebody told me that mushrooms, specifically your brain, creates grooves because of the patterns that you execute on a daily basis. And the grooves become deeper. And so, like, maybe you have like repetitive thought patterns or positive and negative habits. You know, that that kind of habituated action ends up creating grooves in your brain. And all mushrooms do is smooth out the grooves. Wow. So you come out of it not like a changed person per se, but with the ability to change because you now are a little bit more of a blank slate. You can still run those scripts, but then there's other scripts that are available and accessible to you. And that's been amazing.

[B]

And that makes a lot of sense because they're doing studies on depression and how mushrooms are actually fixing it. So people have the grooves in their brain.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Because of being depressed.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So it's just leveling it out and then people can reset.

[A]

Right, right.

[B]

Wow. That makes a ton of sense. So you did mushrooms both times?

[A]

Both times, yeah. Two different strains. And she explained to me, well, she's very intentional about what strain she gives me. Like, the first one was much softer. It was interesting. It was softer. It was far more masculine in temperament, but softer. And then the second one was feminine and temperament.

[B]

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[A]

LinkedIn the place to be, but kind of harsh. Like, kind of. It sort of was like teasing. And then I had the most healing experience of my life. The first time I met every iteration of me from the age of. From a newborn to 19, which is where I, for some reason, housed most of my trauma. It's when I made the biggest mistake of my life. And I actually got to meet those people. And then I thought I stopped there, but then it kept going. And then I met myself in the future.

[B]

Whoa.

[A]

And he was cool, man. He was to be admired like I was. It's a vision to live into, to see this person that you could be and then feel like you're called to something greater. And again, if you haven't done it, I know it sounds a little like.

[B]

Whatever it is, these are some intense mushrooms. Because I've done mushrooms, but I wasn't hallucinating on that level.

[A]

Oh, dude. So what she has me do is, first of all, I did the heroes dose both sides. Did five the first time. Was it five grams or would it be five milligrams?

[B]

Five grams?

[A]

So I did five grams the first time and six the second. And I'm wearing an eye mask the entire time.

[B]

Oh, wow.

[A]

And I'm in a bed. And she makes a cocoon with a weighted blanket.

[B]

Holy.

[A]

And we do, like, prayer, meditation, and stretching beforehand. You. You set an intention, and it. It. It's because, you know, the experience isn't just the chemical. Right. Like, you have to be accessible to it. There's. You're fasting three days prior to you consume no animal products. Like, it's. She's amazing.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I didn't do any of that prep work, so that makes sense.

[A]

It's unbelievable. It's worth doing.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Whatever that's worth.

[B]

I might have to text you about that. You had a couple interesting Facebook posts I want to dive into.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I went through your Facebook. I love how raw you are on Facebook. You said as you got older, you feel the cost of wasted time more and more. That's deep.

[A]

We don't have time. Right. Like, that's the one thing you don't have. And I feel the pressure of the gift that we're being given. And even now, like, I'm like, you know, the Pregnant pauses and all the things that you would, you'd be able to do with this moment. Like the people you could talk to other than me. Like, I'm taking from you, I'm taking your life. Time is all you have from a life perspective. If you look at like, like if this were SimCity, right. The bar at the top would be how much time does Sean have left? And here's costume just swallowing up Sean's time with like horseshit philosophy.

[B]

That's one way of looking at it.

[A]

Or, or maybe I could be giving not, you know, to you. And then what I love about a platform, like what you have is it's, it's all, it's scale. So the cost is at scale, but the benefit is at scale too. And the way that you scaled up specifically not to pander do. But I went down the Sean Kelly rabbit hole. I knew I was going to be on the show. And it's, it's amazing to see. And you're not the only one, but I think you're really good shining light of it. It's amazing to see how a message offered at scale, the impact that that has. Dude, from an anthropological perspective, this has never ever, ever, ever, ever happened before. Right. Like we had the printing press and that was a, that was a revolution. Modern Christianity exists because of the printing press.

[B]

Wow.

[A]

Because of its ability to scale. But look what you can do. Like you post one video and instantly hundreds of thousands, millions of people have seen that and they've been impacted by it. There's this really fun. I'm going to evoke somebody that I hope I don't get nailed for, but I'm obsessed with Jordan Peterson. I call my digital dad. I'm so sorry if that offends people. And he has this seven minute video online. It's the most important message I've ever been exposed to my entire life. He said that there's two ways to conceptualize yourself. The first way is that you're one speck of dust among billions, in which case, who gives a shit? It doesn't matter. Nothing matters. Life is meaningless. Fine. That doesn't do you any good. The second way to conceptualize yourself is that you're a node in a network and you know a thousand people and they know a thousand people, which means that you're one person away from a million people and two people away from a billion people. And if you think about the redundancy in those thousand people, that actually amplifies who you are as a node. And then somebody like you Your node, dude. If you think about like the, the amount of people you have the ability to impact, the responsibility tied to that is insane. And, and it's all tied to time, how you use your time. Like we were talking before we started recording, you're pounding these interviews out, right? Because you're being so productive with your time. And if there is a God, that's what God gave you. That's all God gave anybody. He gave us a body. He gave us the form for action. That is the world. And he gave us time. So it's X and Y and Z axis, and it's the Z axis that we waste. Right. And even when you're. Even when you're dishonoring the other two axes, you're doing it with the Z axis. That's the weapon in your hand is time. And we don't spend enough time thinking about how we use our time. That's why money is so important. Money is a representation of time. Money is a store of value. That's why the Federal Reserve and fiat currency is a pernicious, evil, open air conspiracy lie. Because you're taking time from people. When you take time from people, you kill them on a micro scale. It's micro murder. And so. And so wasting time is micro suicide.

[B]

I'm not a fan of it. I get uncomfortable.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I waste my time.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

When people waste my time for real, I feel it in my body. Because I know we have a limited amount. And to reach the impact, I want to in this life, change the education system, accomplish my goals. I know time needs to be something I'm thinking about daily.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

You know, I'm not as extreme as. Who's that one guy that plans his day but every five minutes? Rob Dyrdek?

[A]

I don't know.

[B]

You don't know? Oh, so he has a calendar. Every five minutes is planned.

[A]

Stop it.

[B]

I don't want to live like that.

[A]

No, that's neurosis.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Yeah, that's actually a waste of time.

[B]

I do not like having days full of calls, though.

[A]

Oh, no, dude.

[B]

Yeah, I'm not a fan of that. I like how Alex Becker approaches his. His time.

[A]

How does he do it?

[B]

No calls, okay? All texts or email. And look at him. He's running a nine figure company.

[A]

Yeah, I got a buddy that does that. John Vroman, he runs Front Row Dads, which is a master of mine that I'm in. And. And he's. He's very big on open days. And if him, if he has time, the answer is yes. Maybe you Know what I mean? It's like it depends on what I feel. And he sets up those boundaries and everybody adheres to it. They just move around him.

[B]

It's beautiful.

[A]

I love that.

[B]

One other post on Facebook. I didn't know about this, but you said small fires are good for forests.

[A]

I don't remember where I learned this. I wish I could offer proper citation, but a natural forest fire clears out the. The brush, the undergrowth, and actually that soil. The post fire soil is nutrient dense, and so it helps the forests. But what we as humans have done is we stop forest fires for a bunch of reasons, especially if they're near city centers or any habitation. And by stopping forest fires, the brush grows, but it grows so big and so high that when there is a fire that we can't stop. Now, the fire has the ability to reach the tree canopy, which is where the big trees are threatened, because the small fires don't threaten big trees. Their trunks are well equipped and actually built for the fire. But when you stop the small fires, the brush grows so high that when there's a fire that we can't stop, it reaches the tree canopy and then the whole forest dies. The metaphor that I used or the way I drew upon that was specifically in relationships, especially as a young man, I avoided small fires. And I thought I was being mature. I thought I was being altruistic. And all that happened was the brush grew and it grew and it grew. And then the big fire was too much to handle. Yeah. And then I lost, dude. I've lost friendships, really important, critical relationships. I've irreparably damaged some of my most important relationships because I wouldn't just have that hard conversation.

[B]

Wow.

[A]

And I've gotten so good now. I'm actually a little obnoxious. I'm a tragic over communicator. But it'd be like, you know, hey, Shana, it's not a big deal. I'm sure you didn't mean it this way, but when you said this, for some reason, I interpreted it as that. And I would love to, if you don't mind, if you have a moment, can we talk about it? And then what happens? Jordan Peterson says to evoke him. Again, if you tell the truth, what happens afterwards is the ideal outcome. And so if I say that and you're like, bro, you're sensitive. Go. You know, like, I'm dumb now I know, hey, Sean's not for me. We're just not. You're not my dude. And that's okay. Like, I've set up this boundary, and I can't control how you respond to my boundaries, but I can control how you. How I respond to you responding to my boundaries. Or you can be like, dude, I'm so sorry. And now we're actually closer. And what I. My. My personal experience has been, has been most people, when you take that approach, feel safer with you because they're like, oh, I know if. If I do something, Sean, he's going to tell me so I can actually be myself with you. Whereas in. In 99.9. No hyperbole, 99.9% of all social relationships, we're actually combatants in a way. Because if I say the wrong thing to you right now, I'm gonna set you off. And if you say the wrong thing to me, you're gonna set me off. And we don't even realize that. And that's an anthropological truth, too, because, you know, a hundred thousand years ago, you and I have different racial backgrounds. Same eye color, different hair. We're the same height, different skin tones. We're probably gonna fight, right? 100,000 years ago. We're different tribes. We're going to kill each other. And that's an epigenetic truth that hasn't left us yet. So we've. We're now docile. We're like trained chimpanzees. But at the root of it, in your reptilian mind, there's still this really important standoff that's happening. And I think the way to bring the reptilian mind into the mammalian mind, let's say, if I can say words that I don't even understand, is to have those conversations. It's those little fires. It's the little fight that stops the big fight. But then what it does is now we're connected, like you and I, aligned in a way that's actually intimate. And people are even afraid of that word. They'd be afraid of the word intimacy, but. And especially between two men, because that's a danger, too. But for you and I to connect in a way that will allow for my vulnerability to enable you to better connect with me further brought us closer to a degree that without that investment, could never exist. Wow. Little fires.

[B]

You just explained why people are racist. That is crazy. Dang. So it's a reptilian mind from thousands of years ago, I think.

[A]

And again, this isn't me either. But most racism is in group preference and novelty response. I actually don't think most. I was raised by Southern Baptists. Oh, yeah, My mom's. You can't tell by looking at me. My mom's white. My whole family is West Virginia. And Southern people you would characterize as racist, good people, but they're conservative by nature. And it's in group preference, meaning I just prefer people that are like me, which, by the way, is a survival mechanism. Because when you're like me, I know how you're gonna respond.

[B]

Right.

[A]

And we have the same values, the same virtues, the same principles, and then something catches fire. I know how you're gonna prioritize. That's really important. So in group preference and then just novelty response, people confuse. You know, people come up to me all the time like, where are you from? What's your background that you could view as well, that's racist. Right. But it's not. It's just you're a little different. And I want to know why that's. I'm actually taking an interest in you. Sometimes the novelty response is done without, with a lack of sophistication, and I think we should have some grace for that. But I don't think most of what we characterize as racist is actually is racist at its core. I think it can become that, especially if you only view it in the sound bite. Richard Rohr says that things become pornographic when you just view parts. It's not pornographic if you're looking like two people making love isn't pornographic if you're looking at the whole of what's happening, of what's actually taking place. It's pornographic when you're just looking at it for this particular sliver.

[B]

Interesting.

[A]

And so I don't think things become racist until we start looking at just this angle. I just want to prove this point.

[B]

Wow. Yeah, I could see that. Yeah. People just want to be. Feel safe. Right. People just want to be around people.

[A]

They could predict Maslow's hierarchy of needs. Right? Like, that's one of the very, very. That's the base.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And I need to make sure I feel safe around you, and you need to make sure you feel safe around me. And there, there are differences that could impact our ability to be safe to and for each other.

[B]

I mean, look at prisons. That's a good example.

[A]

My little brother. Six years in a four yard.

[B]

Your little brother?

[A]

My baby brother. My baby brother is the only non white person to ever hold the keys to the house of an Aryan Brotherhood control yard. Holy crap, bro. You want to talk about he. If he was born to a different family in a different time, he'd be a general. He's the hardest human I've ever known in my life. He's brilliant. He's got a 160 somewhat IQ. He just.

[B]

Damn.

[A]

You know, when. And, and that's what happens. You could take me and my brother, blind single mother on Social Security disability in Albuquerque, New Mexico. And that's the route. And so he. Yeah, six years on a four yard. I asked my brother, I said, how many people in a 4 yard? I keep saying that, by the way, because that's as high as it goes.

[B]

Security four.

[A]

You're. Yeah, you're the. 80% of the prison population is in protective custody. Only 20% of the prison population is actually real. Real convicts. Oh, wow. And it's no joke in there. And I asked him, I said, his name's Sammy. Sammy, how many people in prison belong in prison? And he said, nobody their first time, everybody their second time. So all of. And it's always young men. All of the young men that we put in prison their first time are fragile, broken, hurting, generally addicts in some way, even if it's not a drug addiction. And then prison becomes an animal factory where we introduce them to the network and the people and the institution that would be necessary for them to become real convicts. And we're the ones creating these prisoners. And I saw it through what my brother went through. It's inbuilt into the system. The system perpetuates itself by creating inventory. Prisoners are inventory. We have the largest prison population in the world.

[B]

Holy crap. I didn't know that, dude.

[A]

The US has the largest prison population in the world. I think both per capita and just in total, I think something like, nobody quote me on this because I know there's fact checkers that watch, But I think 5% of the U.S. population at some point will touch jail or prison.

[B]

Holy cow. I mean, even I went to jail.

[A]

Something insane. Yeah. And. And it's, it's. Once you're in the system, it's so hard to get out. It's near impossible. If you ever want a good interview, dude, my little brother, he's got some store. I don't know how many of them he can tell.

[B]

I'd love to. I'm fascinated by the past you two took because you grew up in the same household, but two totally different paths.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

That is crazy to me. Was there like pivotal moments you look.

[A]

Back on 19 years old. I mentioned in my, my journey the worst thing I ever did. I was 19, I was in Albuquerque. I was play acting. I wanted to be a thug because that's. That was the hierarchical structure that where we were, that was the top of the dominance hierarchy.

[B]

Got it.

[A]

But I'm a nine foot tall, half Pakistani kid who's nerdy as hell. I wasn't gonna be. You know what I mean? Like, nobody was gonna let me play that role, but I was pretending. I was trying as hard as I could to do that. And I was running around just doing kid stuff, you know, like we were. Petty crime is how I'll characterize it. But when I was given the opportunity to run away and be a coward, I took it and I ran. And I left my little brother, who was four years younger than me. So I left when I was 19 years old, so he was 15 years old. And I left him in an environment that I created. And I left him surrounded by people and performing acts that would ultimately lead to what got him in prison. And when I was play acting, he wasn't. He was what I was trying to be. And he's a. He's a lot different than I am. You know, you look at me, I'm kind of awkward. I built like a tree. I'm tall, but I'm not big. Sammy's me perfected. He looks like Adonis. He's like broad. And he's prison ripped. Prison ripped is one standard deviation more ripped than gay ripped. Like, he's just like. And dude like you, this. He can just throw down.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And he's always been that way. And so I put him in the. What would you call it? I put him in the. The breeding environment for what happened next. And what happened next is kind of exactly what you thought. He's entrepreneurial in nature. And so when you're in that world and you're entrepreneurial, you don't start a business. Right. You find other.

[B]

Yeah, yeah.

[A]

Approaches. And this is all public record, so you can Google his name and see what he did. So I'm not hiding anything, but that's interesting.

[B]

So you felt somewhat responsible.

[A]

It was my fault 100% with that question. Yeah, that was me. I did that.

[B]

Wow. So no accountability to him. All on you.

[A]

Essentially, the Jesuits used to say, give me until a child is six and you can have him for the rest of his life. My brother had me. I was there to define what it was to be. And I was only four years older than him, but I'm the one that posited a value structure that got him in trouble. And I did it before he had left the stage in life where you can even question what you're being taught. So I Mean, of course he's responsible and accountable and we all are to ourselves. But how unfair it would imagine being three years old and your father is a seven year old who's hateful, vengeful, wants to hurt people, wants to steal, want. You know what I mean? And that's the person teaching you right? So is that fair to me? No. Is that what happened? Yeah, that's what happened.

[B]

Dang, that's deep.

[A]

And you know, that's just what is man. Like, that's the thing. The thing. My new. My new obsession is forgiveness. I need to learn, Sean, what it means, how to do it, where it is. Because forgiveness feels like betrayal. Like if I were to forgive myself from betraying what I did to my brother, but I know I need to because I know that that eats. That'll.

[B]

Was that what came up when you were seeing your 19 year old self?

[A]

Yeah, that was. And my 19 year old self, when I met him, he was in this picture like Stonehenge, but way more stones and different heights and cavernous. And I didn't know where he was. And when I saw him, he was so angry at me and he was like, he was so betrayed because I had no grace for him. He was 19, he was afraid, he had no future. And there was an out that was given. But I didn't know my dad very well and my dad at one point found out that I was doing what I was doing and he offered to let me come live with him in Scottsdale. So I go from. Have you ever been to Albuquerque?

[B]

I haven't actually.

[A]

Don't go. Have you seen Breaking Bad?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Yeah, that's Albuquerque.

[B]

Oh, wow.

[A]

With way less white people. Breaking bad has like 10 times as many Caucasians as Albuquerque actually has. Which is relevant, I think, because it gives you a sense as to the media mix, let's say, of that, that demographic compared to. I go to Scottsdale, Arizona and I go. I moved from little ghetto kid being raised by a blind woman on welfare to my dad had a rug store, was pretending to be rich, but had kind of finally found a pocket of life where he could be successful. So I switched and dude, I bitched up quick. I started wearing Dockers and I changed the way that I spoke and I enunciated and I just flipped it. And maybe that was an okay thing to do. Like, maybe it was like, oh, you found the escape patch. But I've hated myself for it ever since. And then meeting myself at 19 and there was an embrace. I got to hug myself at 19 years old. I got to apologize for putting everything that I've ever done wrong on the shoulders of this 19 year old kid that didn't know any better. And I can't say I've forgiven myself fully, but I've started the journey and it's so healing.

[B]

Wow.

[A]

It's so, so healing.

[B]

Yeah. I need to look into that because there's some regrets I still have, honestly. Yeah. With people, you know, I think it's important to forgive and let it go.

[A]

Yeah. Regrets you have.

[B]

Just previous friendships I wish I handled differently.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

You know, there's been a few really close friends that I've lost touch with and I feel like I could have handled it better.

[A]

Yeah. Are there people you'd want to rekindle with or just. Just close the door better?

[B]

Probably close the door better.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

You know, I think what's in the past, I don't want to dwell on it too much longer. I'm 27 now, so some of these relationships are from my childhood.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Yeah. But that's. That stuff eats at you. I saw what happened with my dad, man, because he ran away at 18.

[A]

Never forgave his parents, never spoke to him again.

[B]

Yeah. And the day, the day his grandmother. My grandmother, his mother died, she came to me in my dream and was looking for my dad.

[A]

No way.

[B]

They never rekindled and they had so much just love for each other, but they just never, you know, so I don't want that.

[A]

No. He can never go back.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

You. Has he addressed that or is it.

[B]

I told him about it, he just thought it was bs but he's not as spiritual as I am.

[A]

It's a. Yeah, it's a closed door for him.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Yeah. How old is he? Do you mind me asking?

[B]

He passed away too, but he was living with all that just regret. Yeah. Forever. Cuz his dad physically abused him his whole life, so he was just so traumatized.

[A]

What was his name, your father?

[B]

Mike.

[A]

Mike.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Thanks for sharing that with me.

[B]

Yeah. I got so hard, I got his middle name. Carrying on the legacy.

[A]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[B]

It's deep, man. Everyone has their traumas, right? Even if you grow up in a nice ass house, bro, maybe those people.

[A]

Weren'T anybody, you know, because not being given permission to feel traumatized, that's a trauma unto itself, you know, like. And I know some people that are in that boat to where they're like, hey, what I went through was hard too. And I'm not even allowed to talk about it. If you're blonde hair, blue eyed, Male and born in middle or upper middle class society. There's something about your opinion that doesn't matter. Dude, I think that's so wrong.

[B]

Yeah. Trust fund babies.

[A]

Yeah. I think that's so. And that's my kids now. You know, my kids, my kids will be multi millionaires before they're 18 years old. I've got it all set up for them and I worry about that because I'm like, they still matter. They're still worthy, they're still relevant. And they both look white. One of my boys is, you know, green eyed.

[B]

Wow.

[A]

And you would, you would hope that we don't punish them for the way they look? Like, why is racism acceptable that way?

[B]

Yeah. Well, some of these kids that grow up in rich environments have the worst mental issues.

[A]

Oh, without question. Yeah. Dude, I live in Scottsdale. I see that all the time. You want to talk about neglect, like they're raised by the nanny or the au pair. Yeah, yeah.

[B]

You got to spend time with your family no matter how wealthy you got. Right.

[A]

Children spell love, T I, M, E. Yeah, yeah.

[B]

Because when you have all this money, some people keep chasing it.

[A]

Right.

[B]

But I'm at the point now where like I could retire. So now it's about purpose, passion. I don't need more money. I mean, I'd like it.

[A]

Money's how we keep score. Yeah. So that's just how I know I'm doing it. Right. It's like, okay, that's profitable.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And I'll keep at that. But I'm with. Dude. I drive a 40 year old Honda.

[B]

Wow.

[A]

I live in a. I live in a home that's two tax brackets beneath my net worth level. And that's not to. That's not to. I hope I'm not virtue signaling. That's just to say that I want a hundred million dollars. Not to me after taxes. That's my next goal. Not cause I want. I don't need a bigger house, I don't need a bigger car. I don't care. But it gets me in a room that I might not be in. It gives me access, it gives me time. I can hire people I wouldn't be able to afford to hire otherwise. I have access to experiences. And then if I want to, I can give.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And that's what I want. I want all of them. After I get a hundred million dollars, I'm going get a billion dollars. After I get a billion dollars, as long as I do it within my buy box. Like my buy box is I want to be a dad. First I want my time. I don't want a ton of meetings. I never want to be on the org chart of an organization that I own, ever. Do not call me that's. I'm not. I don't work here. You know what I mean?

[B]

So, yeah, I love that, that perfect segue into hiring. Yeah, right now you're hiring a lot offshores. You're getting sea level suite people for 2000amonth.

[A]

Dude, it's insane.

[B]

That's crazy.

[A]

It's insane. This is. So there's. And actually a friend of mine just sent me a podcast where somebody else has now kind of discovered this too, which pissed me off. I thought I was smart. So it's all over the world, but I'm right now obsessed with Latin America, specifically Argentina. The Argentinian economy has collapsed. They just elected the first anarcho capitalist ever elected to public office. I have a lot of hope for him, but their currency is devalued to the point of being worthless. And yet the Argentinians are. They have one of the highest college educated populations, the most amount of economists produce per capita in the world. Brilliant. Phenomenal English proficiency. Not that that matters. It's not a hallmark of intelligence, but it is a hallmark of education in this society. And like. So my personal financial analyst, when I made all my money, the worst thing to do to poor people is give money because we think we're investors. My investment strategy is buy high, sell low. So far, not working. So I have all these investments and I've made all these deploy and I've got all these like angel, whatever and all these businesses and I'm not managing it well. I hire this gentleman, professional economist, college professor. Fifteen hundred dollars a month full time USD. Brilliant. He starts pumping out these reports, looking at my investment portfolio. I've got a bunch of houses in Fargo, North Dakota and it turns out that actually my investment portfolio is perfectly profitable. Except one door, one house is dragging everything down. But I never would have known that had he not done the analysis. So all my friends start looking at some of the stuff he's sharing with me and they're like, how are you doing this? And he's not alone, dude. And it's not all of Latin America per se, but I really like Argentina, Colombia. Venezuela's tough because the infrastructure there is so rough. Power goes out a lot, Internet goes out a lot. But the population is well educated, hard working. There are some nuances that you have to figure out. But man, making international talent accessible to western companies, it's a passion of mine, I've placed, I own a recruiting agency called Pareto talent. I've placed 10 VA so far. I want to place 100 by the end of this year, a thousand by the end of next year, 10,000 by the year after that. And it's such a win win because the average Argentinian making is making $300 USD a month.

[B]

Wow.

[A]

I pay my guys 1500 dollars 5x. So imagine making 5 extra peers. It frees them up entirely. Esteban, the guy I told you about, he gets to stay at home, he's with his kid, he has a four month old son. Like I've changed his life. His words, not mine. And then he's changed mine. So you take somebody, you pay him 5x what they could make domestically, you house them with an entrepreneur, that's what. Overwhelmed, overworked, doesn't know what to do, doesn't know how to do it. And you allow that symbiotic relationship to just spiral up, win, win, win across the board. And then you keep doing that and you can play the whole you're still in American jobs. But here's the thing. I've tried to hire domestically, I'm not because those people aren't available and accessible to me. His level of talent goes to Amazon, Google, Microsoft, Apple, Faith. I can't afford that. Even if I could afford the salary, I don't have the conference room and the $12 croissants and the cachet. So going internationally, dude, smart people exist all over the damn world. What humor is to think that this is the only country that produces exceptional talent. As a matter of fact, I think we've, maybe the pendulum is swung the other way. So yeah, I think open yourself up to international talent, because when I sold my business, I sold it. I sold it 40% margins in an industry that aims at 15% margins. And I did it because I had an international staff. So you can't argue with the numbers.

[B]

Yeah, because if you hired domestically, it would have been 15% like everyone else.

[A]

Aiming at 15, trying, grasping, you know, like if I'd have got there, I would have had the most efficient agency in, you know, in the world.

[B]

Yeah. How are you measuring their work output? Is there software to do that?

[A]

I don't, I don't do, I don't do. I don't track hours, I don't screenshot desktops. I don't do anything. None of it, bro. So the point is to build businesses that can be measured on exactly what you just said. How are you measuring their output? Why Do I care that you work eight hours? Why is that? What an arbitrary measure, right? Like, what does it matter? You go watch Netflix for 8 hours and 56 minutes, as long as in 4 minutes you're able to do this. This is worth what I paid you today. And you have your output structured based on output. I don't build businesses where I can't do that. I don't bill hourly. I bill by output, which, by the way, you put anybody who builds hourly is on the wrong side of the fulcrum, because the fulcrum is what is leverageable. And think about the way AI is going to go. AI is going to amplify the output of resources to a point to where if you're billing hourly, you're going to have to produce hundreds, if not thousands of times the output and still get paid on an hourly basis. Whereas if you're charging by output, you're on the right side of the fulcrum and AI just amplified what you made. So, no, never, ever, ever, ever, ever. Time for money. Horrible trade. Horrible trade. There's no leverage to it, which means I'm not going to pay that way either. So, like with my financial team, it's. Hey, you're doing. We have a. We're launching. And poorly, by the way. This isn't a pitch. What Stebbing did for me, I want to do for other people. So I'm launching a fractional CFO agency, maybe playing with it, but I'm not asking my financial. Because you need a CPA and you need a bookkeeper and you need a client manager. They don't have to invest a certain amount of time, they have to manage a certain number of clients. And we'll figure out what that looks like. But maybe it's 30 clients. If you keep the books clean on 30 clients, not only do I not care what you do, I don't care if you do the work. You outsource this shit. Good on you. That's entrepreneurial. You find a software that does that, that's great. Train me how to do it so I can do that with the other 15 people, and I'll reward you for doing it. But the output should be the measure upon which people are paid. And I charge. And not doing so is a massively inefficient business model. And I'll fight to the death anybody who disagrees with me.

[B]

I love it. I mean, most industries would disagree with you, but I'm a fan of work results.

[A]

Yeah, you.

[B]

You eat what you kill, right? You know, I. I was Never a fan of our lease.

[A]

I mean dude, you around aren't right. Like if you want peak performers, if you want the best people in the world, pay them based off of what they're able to produce. And then watch them produce. Because that's the other thing too is people are going to gamify the system. Oh, you want me to work eight hours? I'm going to do the least amount I can do in order not to get fired. If you pay me based on my output, what you find is this massive Pareto distribution. And the nice thing about the predo distribution is it's true at every level of analysis. So 20% of your employees do 80% of the work. Fine, take the 20%. 20% of those do 80% of the work. Fine, take that 20%. 20% of those do eighty percent of the work. And it's because you're going to find those people that continue to gamify. When I sold my Google Ads agency, one employee who became a business partner, I gave him 10% equity because I couldn't afford to lose them. One employee managed 54% of my revenue.

[B]

Wow.

[A]

Because he saw, oh, the more I do, the more I get paid. Yes, please. It's John Moran. He's the best Google Ads mind in the world. In the world. Charges $25 an hour right now and gets it to manage Google Ads campaigns. He's brilliant, crazy, and I incentivized him in a way that allowed him to map his own destiny.

[B]

Yeah, and that's a good segue into my next topic because you have a theory about Meta and Google, that they're built algorithm algorithmically to eat all your margins.

[A]

Dude, I can prove this. So I built the largest Google Ads agency in the world. The largest dedicated goal in the world. I had a hundred million dollars in ad spend under management. I had 200 some odd clients, more than that, but 200, like I can't call them enterprise clients, but we'll say full spectrum clients. I can prove with data. Dude, this is an antitrust suit. This should happen if there's an attorney watching somebody, somebody do something. It's insane their mechanism. Imagine for a moment an auctioneer. Okay, you go to an auction, you've been to auctions. I imagine estate auctions. You go to an auction, but imagine the auctioneer is actually the one that profits. They're not a third party. Not only do they profit, but they can see everybody who's going to bid on every piece of inventory. Not only can they see what everybody's going to bid, they can see how much they're willing to bid. Not only can they see how much they're willing to bid, they can see how much they're going to make on it after the fact. How could you not build it in algorithmically to maximize the profit potential of your inventory so that every person bidding on the auction is bidding at the maximum that they'd be willing to pay so that they're making one penny more than they need to make before they cancel. And what's interesting about it, and you'll notice that this happens in both Google and Meta campaigns. When the campaigns start to perform, your CPCS and your CPM go up. You don't know what that means. It's your cost per click and your cost per milli, which is Latin for a thousand cost per view. The cost of your traffic increases as soon as your campaigns start to perform. Here's the hack. Check this shit out. It's insane. Don't track conversions, which is. That's the worst advice any media buyer has ever given you in the history of the world. But if you're a business owner and you're running traffic, don't tell Google, don't tell Meta. When you're successful, guess what happens. As long as you have good creative going to a good audience, you trust your creative, you trust your audience. What else is there? Your good creative to a good audience with a good offer is going to result in conversions. But you don't tell meta and you don't tell Google that people are converting. Meaning you don't track conversions on page, you don't allow them to track any of your data. You capture all that stuff first party and you'll notice that parapassu those two things split test against each other. Where I'm tracking conversions and I'm not tracking conversions, my cost per traffic will be fractions.

[B]

Wow.

[A]

When I'm not tracking fra like a tenth, a fiftieth hundredth Holy crap. What's even worse is they're taking your traffic and they're using it to build audiences. I wear Cuts shirts. I like them. They have a nice fit, they don't wrinkle. Blah, blah, blah. Cuts commercials, who cares? There's four Cuts competitors. Cuts is a brand. C U T S. There's four Cuts competitors. Try this. If you go to Cuts website right now, today, Cuts has the Facebook pixel on their website. You get Pixel, you'll start seeing ads for cut shirts. If you don't buy a Cut shirt in roughly 14 to 21 days, you'll start seeing ads for cuts competitors.

[B]

No way.

[A]

Meta used cuts, traffic and media spend to build an audience that they sold to cuts competitors. That's insane.

[B]

Wow.

[A]

And we just. Because what are you gonna do? Use the other Facebook. So they're, they're stealing your audiences. They're stealing all of your margin. It used to be that we could run ads and make money on the front end, right? So I'm selling this thing for 30 bucks and I ran ads and it cost me $3 to acquire a customer. So it used to be that I could actually run ads, make money. Then it was, I run ads and I break even on the product, but I make money on the order bump or the upsell. Then it was, I run ads and I break even on the upsell, but I make money on the next month, let's say the rebuy. And then it was, well, I break even on the rebuy, but I make money on the lifetime value of the customer. They keep moving the line of demarcation for profitability in their favor. We are in a traffic bubble. There are, there are so many industries. Before I sold my agency there, I'd never touch residential realty. I'd never trust General dentistry. I won't touch non consumable e commerce at all. I can't touch SAS. Salesforce is banking off a 30 year lifetime value of a customer. 30 years. They're willing to spend how much it takes them. They're willing to spend how much they make up to 29 years and 364 days. How do you compete with that? You can't. And Google and Meta have algorithmically optimized the situation in their favor, obviously. Because how could you not? I'm not a software engineer. Bring a software engineer in here and explain to me how they could build it any other way. It'd be impossible. You can't pretend. There could be no Chinese curtain that tells you like, oh, I can see all this, but I'm not going to use it. It's impossible. And so we're just spending into this ecosystem and we're looking at a traffic bubble that it's stealing all entrepreneurial profitability. And it's going to be really interesting to see because I actually think the bubble is going to burst and I think there's a huge opportunity on the other end of that.

[B]

I'm glad you brought light to this because this isn't really talked about.

[A]

Dude, again, anti trust, like somebody needs to sue somebody.

[B]

Yeah, someone needs to look into that data. Man, that is crazy. Oh, man. I guess. What do you got coming up next? What are you passionate about? What are you excited about This?

[A]

I like employing emerging people in emerging nations. I own a mastermind. That's fun. You did a bunch of mastermind stuff.

[B]

What's yours called?

[A]

Driven.

[B]

Driven.

[A]

That's with Perry Belcher, Jason Fladlin.

[B]

Oh, is that with Damon John or no.

[A]

Yeah, no, that's James. Damon's is. That's a good one, too. That's Rise Nation.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

That's Damon, Ryan, and Roland. I like those guys. What else do I do? That's it, bro. I just. I'm trying to figure out what I want to be when I grow up. And I appreciate this. Feels so. Just being able to talk like I have that sad, pathetic approach personality that enjoys attention. So for whatever it's worth, I really appreciate you having me on. This is awesome.

[B]

I think we all do deep down, right? Yeah. Want to be heard.

[A]

I think we all do.

[B]

Yeah. For real. Well, yeah. That was great, man. Thanks for coming. I'll link your socials below.

[A]

That's great.

[B]

Yeah. Thanks for watching, guys, as always. See you tomorrow.

[A]

Appreciate.