Digital Social Hour – "Doctors Are Studying P**p… And It Could Save Lives"

Guest: Dr. Sabine Hazan | Host: Sean Kelly

Episode #1860 | March 15, 2026

Episode Overview

In this episode, Sean Kelly is joined by Dr. Sabine Hazan, a pioneering gastroenterologist and microbiome researcher, for a candid and illuminating conversation about the science and significance of human (and animal) poop. Dr. Hazan demystifies the “ick” around stool, revealing its power in shaping health, driving innovation in medicine, and, yes, sometimes even creating business opportunities.

The conversation touches on the use of fecal transplants to treat disease, the wild world of probiotics and supplement fads, COVID’s surprising link to gut health, and what the latest research is exposing about the collapse of beneficial microbes in modern living. Dr. Hazan is passionate, straight-talking, and committed to raising standards and awareness about the microbiome’s crucial role in human health.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Power and Business of Poop

• Stigma and Opportunity: There’s a taboo around stool, but Dr. Hazan approaches it with practicality and curiosity. She explains that “there’s definitely money in poop”—though not for her nonprofit research center, but for healthy donors matched with recipients for medical necessity.
  • “I look at stool samples all day long... our lab is a genetic research lab trying to figure out the microbiome in diseases.” (Dr. Hazan, 03:55)
• Qualification of Healthy Poop: Healthy donors are identified based on the diversity and presence of beneficial microbes in their stool.
  • Dr. Hazan acts as a matcher between donor and patient but recuses from any financial transaction.
• Real Examples:
  • Pediatric case with neuroblastoma: The FDA oversaw a case where a healthy stool donor was found for a child—an early marker of where this field might head.
  • “The donors can make a lot of money if they have really good poop.” (Dr. Hazan, 03:35)

2. Why Poop Matters: From Alopecia Areata to Alzheimer’s

• Success Stories and Risks:
  • Dr. Hazan recounts cases where fecal transplants facilitated hair regrowth in alopecia patients, and potential improvements in Alzheimer’s, but notes that sometimes the same intervention could trigger or worsen disease in others.
    • “The same thing that can heal, can kill.” (Dr. Hazan, 06:33)
• Her Motivation: Instead of launching a “poop business,” Dr. Hazan is invested in understanding root causes of major diseases—Alzheimer’s, autism, Parkinson’s—through uncovering “signature microbes.”

3. How Environment and Lifestyle Shape the Microbiome

• The Microbial Melting Pot:
  • Geographic, dietary, and cultural transitions drastically alter gut bacteria.
    • “You came from India, Japan, the Amazon jungle. You came with certain microbes. You adapt to this environment of America, which is [a] sterile community… you’re losing a lot of microbes that you had.” (Dr. Hazan, 02:44 & 07:53)
  • Antibiotic overuse, hyper-sterilization, and processed foods take a heavy toll.
• Bifidobacteria as a Marker: Dr. Hazan repeatedly cites bifidobacteria as a key, beneficial microbe, found to be depleted by American lifestyle and habits.

4. The Problem with Probiotics and Supplements

• Lack of Regulation & Quality Control:

  • Many probiotics and supplements either don’t contain what’s promised or are processed poorly.
    • “For every probiotic that writes the data for the lab that does the research... there’s 20 copycats that become fake probiotics. The consumer doesn’t know which one’s real from a fake.” (Dr. Hazan, 11:01)
  • Even yogurt claiming probiotic content is often missing the key strains.
    • In a study of 26 yogurts, only three had the bifidobacteria listed.

• Advice to Consumers:

  • Trust your body’s reaction: “If you tolerate a yogurt that makes you feel good, then keep doing it... If you don’t tolerate it and you’re getting problems... then you probably don’t want it.” (Dr. Hazan, 12:07)

• Contaminants in Foods:

  • “Do you know that 90% of chocolates have arsenic in them?” (Dr. Hazan, 13:28)

5. The Limits of Current Stool Testing

• Validation Issues:
  • Available consumer stool tests lack accuracy and are hard to interpret meaningfully.
    • “When you look at a stool sample and you test your same stool sample, if you don’t have the same result, it’s not really a test you can trust.” (Dr. Hazan, 14:51)
  • Microbial diversity and roles are complex and still misunderstood.
• Caution in Commercialization:
  • Dr. Hazan refuses to market an unverified, potentially misleading stool test. “What if I’m wrong? What if I guided them in the wrong way? I would feel horrible about it.” (Dr. Hazan, 15:41)

6. Fecal Transplants for Animals: Expanding Research

• Dog Microbiome Collaboration:

  • Partnering with a scientist who rescues and rehabilitates dogs through fecal transplants, Dr. Hazan is mapping normal vs. unhealthy dog microbiomes as prelude to human interventions.
  • “So if we can help them with this, this is the best way to do it.” (Dr. Hazan, 20:42)

• Celebrity Attention & New Food Trends:

  • Celebrities promoting gut health in pets and humans (e.g., Rob Lowe, Paris Hilton).
  • Rise of local honey, yogurt, and sourdough as gut-friendly restaurant staples.

7. COVID, Autism, and the Microbiome

• COVID & Gut Health:

  • Dr. Hazan’s lab was among the first to find and sequence COVID in stool, revealing that virus strains mutate differently even among neighbors.
    • “100% of people that had nasal PCR positive [COVID] or positive whole genome sequencing in the stools... had a different mutation in the virus and at the spike protein.” (Dr. Hazan, 27:00)
  • Bifidobacteria depletion correlates with severe COVID, as well as with autism, Alzheimer’s, Lyme, Crohn's, and invasive cancer.

• Proof of Concept in Autism:

  • Study restoring bifidobacteria in autistic twins resulted in the twins gaining speech and reading abilities.
    • “We showed loss of bifidobacteria in autism... [restoring it], these kids are speaking.” (Dr. Hazan, 29:54)

• Dramatic Trends:

  • “One in 12 boys in California [has autism].” (Host, 34:16)
  • Modern factors stacking up: stress, overmedication, antibiotic overuse, poor quality formula—all potentially eroding the gut microbiome from birth.

8. Call to Action and Final Thoughts

• Need for Better Research & Standards:

  • Dr. Hazan stresses the importance of not rushing into fads and instead urges rigorous science for the next generation’s health.
    • “We need to be better. We need to do better for humanity. Instead of rushing to just sell... we should just stop for a minute and say, what are we doing and how do we do better research for our kids and for humanity?” (Dr. Hazan, 38:09)

• How Listeners Can Help:

  • Donate or Learn: MicrobiomeResearchFoundation.org
  • Follow the Research or Connect: Progenobiome.com; Dr. Hazan is active on X (Twitter) and Instagram: “I always answer all my messages personally.” (Dr. Hazan, 39:01)

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On making money from poop:
  • “I’ve kind of stepped into this world and somehow I ended up being the buyer, the seller and the appraiser. So I’m not quite sure how I got here. But we’re here.” (Dr. Hazan, 03:55)
• On the dangers of “fake” probiotics:
  • “There's people doing the right research and then there’s all these copycats that are not even putting the right probiotic in there or don’t even know how to process it properly.” (Dr. Hazan, 11:15)
• On loss of key microbes:
  • “If you look at a person that comes from India and then they come to America—they’ve lost, like, half of their microbes, if not more, because of this sterilization that we do...” (Dr. Hazan, 08:31)
• On COVID research:
  • “When we discovered COVID in the stools, we were the first lab to… see COVID in the stools by whole genome sequencing.” (Dr. Hazan, 26:51)
• On the scale of the autism crisis:
  • “If 1 in 12 boys right now have autism, in about 50 years from now, it’s going to be 1 in 1. And that’s goodbye, humanity.” (Dr. Hazan, 37:17)
• On her personal approach:
  • “I’m not here to push poop, but I’m here to kind of do the research properly.” (Dr. Hazan, 38:01)
• On taking action:
  • “It’s time to take back our health. It’s time to be more vigilant. It’s time to demand quality from these products and not just buy in massive quantities.” (Dr. Hazan, 14:07)

Key Timestamps

| Timestamp | Topic / Key Insight | |-----------|--------------------| | 03:35 | Poop as a business (donor matching, not profit-driven for the lab) | | 05:39 | Why Dr. Hazan started studying poop – link to surprising cures and risks | | 07:53 | Environment and lifestyle dramatically shift microbes; “losing” original flora | | 11:01 | Supplement fads, fake probiotics, and food industry deception | | 12:07 | Consumer advice: judge by your own body’s response to foods/supplements | | 13:28 | Hidden food contaminants (e.g., arsenic in chocolate) | | 14:51 | Problems with commercial stool testing | | 20:42 | Fecal transplant research in dogs; mapping the healthy canine microbiome | | 23:57 | COVID-19, the microbiome, and bifidobacteria’s role | | 26:51 | Groundbreaking COVID sequencing in stool samples—as early marker and for tracking mutations | | 29:54 | Restoring bifidobacteria improves autism symptoms in case study | | 34:16 | Discussion of autism rates and modern microbiome collapse | | 38:09 | Dr. Hazan’s plea for better research, not consumer fads | | 39:01 | How to support and connect with Dr. Hazan’s work |

Conclusion

This episode dissolves stigma around “poop science,” making a compelling case for why your gut may be the biggest uncharted frontier in health. Dr. Sabine Hazan’s message is clear: the microbiome is foundational to wellness, yet modern living is eroding it at alarming rates. Her research and advocacy are pushing for more rigorous, ethical study—and warn against easy answers or commercial shortcuts.

Listeners are encouraged to reclaim agency over their health by demanding quality, being vigilant about products, and supporting the kind of microbiome research Dr. Hazan champions.

Find Dr. Sabine Hazan and support the cause:

• MicrobiomeResearchFoundation.org
• Progenobiome.com
• Social: X (Twitter) and Instagram (@DrSabineHazan)