Elite Trainer Reveals: Why Most UFC Fighters Fail Under Pressure | Phil Daru DSH #998

Summary

Digital Social Hour: Elite Trainer Reveals: Why Most UFC Fighters Fail Under Pressure | Phil Daru DSH #998

Release Date: December 20, 2024

In episode #998 of Digital Social Hour, host Sean Kelly engages in an enlightening conversation with Phil Daru, a renowned trainer in the combat sports arena. Daru delves deep into the multifaceted aspects that distinguish elite UFC fighters from those who falter under pressure. This comprehensive summary captures the essence of their discussion, highlighting key insights, training philosophies, personal anecdotes, and actionable advice for athletes aiming to excel in high-stakes environments.

Phil Daru’s Journey to Elite Training

Phil Daru shares his extensive background in sports, emphasizing his lifelong commitment to training and martial arts. Beginning resistance training at age 12 and martial arts at 4, Daru's passion naturally transitioned from being a college football player to a professional mixed martial artist. Reflecting on his 15-year journey, Daru states, “When I made that decision to do that, you know, hockey stick from there” [00:40], highlighting the exponential growth in his career as he shifted focus from athlete to dedicated coach.

Training Across Disciplines: UFC Fighters vs. NFL Athletes

Daru elucidates the differences in training methodologies between UFC fighters and NFL athletes. “At any elite level, these guys are in the NFL, and the guys that I work with in the UFC, they always have this sense of urgency and discipline” [00:37]. He underscores the importance of adaptability, noting that his football background provides a diversified approach to coaching athletes from various sports. This versatility allows him to tailor training programs that cater to the unique demands of each discipline.

The Crucial Role of Mental Fortitude

A significant portion of the discussion centers on mental resilience. Daru emphasizes that physical prowess alone is insufficient without the mental capacity to handle stress and pressure. “They have the mental fortitude that know how to take it to the next level and block out the noise, they become the elite” [00:00]. He recounts his own experiences of losing fights due to insufficient mental preparedness, stating, “When I started coaching, I wanted to make sure that I reiterated that to most of the guys” [04:43]. This focus on psychological strength is pivotal in differentiating top-tier fighters from the rest.

Comprehensive Training Techniques

Daru outlines his holistic approach to training, which includes biomechanics, endurance, mobility, and functionality. He explains, “Are they biomechanically efficient for the actual sport? Do they have the proper endurance? Do they have the mental capacity to withstand these types of stressful situations?” [00:00]. Additionally, he highlights the importance of adaptability in training sessions, particularly when athletes face injuries. “Being able to structure a training session around what could or could not happen and then from there still progress them with whatever I could do that” [07:43].

Nutrition and Supplementation

Nutrition is paramount in Daru’s training regimen. He advocates for whole foods but acknowledges the challenges in sourcing them, especially in demanding environments like Las Vegas. “If they don't have something that's organic, that's grass-fed, that's locally raised in a lot of ways, especially out here. You're in Vegas. It's tough” [13:17]. To bridge nutritional gaps, Daru incorporates supplements such as Omega-3s, multivitamins, and creatine monohydrate, which he mentions can aid in reducing inflammation and mitigating the effects of traumatic brain injuries [14:00].

Breathwork and Recovery Strategies

Breathwork emerges as a critical component of Daru’s training philosophy. He introduces parasympathetic breathing protocols, like box breathing, to enhance recovery and reduce stress levels. “We do a form of box breathing, which is a parasympathetic breathing protocol that you can do” [18:06]. Daru explains how these techniques help athletes lower their heart rates between rounds, enabling them to maintain peak performance: “Once we get closer to the fight, I want to see if they can bring down the heart rate at least 30% from where they were at” [20:05].

Personal Anecdotes: Overcoming Physical and Mental Challenges

Daru candidly shares his personal struggles, including multiple concussions and a severe ultramarathon-induced rhabdomyolysis. “I’ve had eight concussions... If you don't stop fighting, you're going to have Alzheimer's by the time you're 50” [15:38]. These experiences propelled him to transition fully into coaching, prioritizing long-term health over immediate athletic pursuits. His dedication to pushing personal boundaries is evident in his pursuit of ultra-distance events and breath-holding challenges, aiming to continuously evolve both mentally and physically.

Current Endeavors and Coaching Elite Athletes

Currently, Daru coaches a diverse roster of athletes, including Robisi Ramirez, a two-time gold medalist aiming for the WBO title, NFL players returning for minicamps, and junior Olympic athletes. “I’ve worked with well over 200 professional athletes and fighters in the UFC, NFL, MLB” [17:02]. Furthermore, he extends his expertise by coaching other coaches, ensuring that the principles of discipline and mental resilience are propagated throughout the training community.

Sustaining Greatness: Consistency and Continuous Improvement

Daru emphasizes that true greatness lies in sustained effort and the relentless pursuit of improvement. He draws parallels with legendary athletes like Michael Jordan and Kobe Bryant, who remained dedicated to their training regimes despite their success. “There’s every. You can always get better. There’s always a way to improve. There’s always a way to challenge yourself” [29:09]. This philosophy encourages athletes to maintain humility and continue striving for excellence, regardless of their achievements.

Closing Remarks and Future Directions

As the conversation wraps up, Daru shares his aspirations to delve deeper into breathwork and other advanced training techniques. He also discusses his interest in underwater training and deep dives to enhance lung capacity and mental resilience. “I did a two and a half with air out, so on the exhale” [30:35]. Daru concludes by reaffirming his commitment to pushing athletes beyond their perceived limits, fostering both their physical capabilities and mental strength.

For those interested in Phil Daru’s training programs, insights, and ongoing projects, he can be followed on various social media platforms under the handle @philderstrong. His gym and additional resources are accessible through his YouTube channel and other online platforms, ensuring that aspiring athletes can benefit from his expertise.

Notable Quotes:

• Phil Daru [00:00]: “They have the mental fortitude that know how to take it to the next level and block out the noise, they become the elite.”
• Phil Daru [04:43]: “When I started coaching, I wanted to make sure that I reiterated that to most of the guys.”
• Phil Daru [14:00]: “Omega 3s, a standard multivitamin. It will always be good. I like creatine monohydrate too, as well.”
• Phil Daru [18:06]: “We do a form of box breathing, which is a parasympathetic breathing protocol that you can do.”
• Phil Daru [29:09]: “There’s always a way to improve. There’s always a way to challenge yourself.”

This episode of Digital Social Hour offers invaluable insights into the intricate balance of physical training and mental resilience required to excel in combat sports. Phil Daru’s wealth of experience and dedication to holistic athlete development makes this discussion a must-listen for aspiring fighters, coaches, and sports enthusiasts alike.

Transcript

[A]

Okay. Are they biomechanically efficient for the actual sport? Do they have the proper endurance? Do they have the mental capacity to withstand these types of stressful situations? And when you have all that together, especially when you have an opponent right next to you, let's say it's a one on one with the ufc. These guys that have that mental fortitude, that know how to take it to the next level and block out the noise, they become the elite.

[B]

All right, guys, we're out here in West Palm. I got Phil Dara here today, one of the best trainers in the world. Thanks for coming on, man.

[A]

Thank you, my brother. I appreciate it.

[B]

Yeah, your knowledge is immense. So I can't wait to get to learn how you got to this level, man. For real?

[A]

Yeah, man. It's been 15 years in the making.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

Was it always a goal of yours to become a trainer?

[A]

Yeah, I mean, I've always trained, you know, trained since I was, say, 12 years old. Started doing resistance training, but martial arts since I was 4 years old. So I kind of merged myself into that. I was a college football player and started to do mixed martial arts, ended up becoming a pro there. And then I just defi. Like I could see myself doing this long term, and I was like, okay, I'm gonna be an athlete for the rest of my life. I can be athletic. But I wanted to give back, and that was the biggest thing. And when I made that decision to do that, you know, hockey stick from there.

[C]

Nice.

[B]

And you train all sports, it's not just one sport, right?

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

I mean, I made my niche in combat sports, but we just got it done with the NFL off season guys, so I'm looking forward to watching them on the gridiron.

[B]

So. Cool.

[A]

You know, I do have a football background, which was good for me to make that trans to, like, work with other athletes too, as well. It gives me more diversity in a lot of ways that I coach and communicate to as well.

[C]

Right.

[B]

How different is the training with NFL guys versus fighters?

[A]

You know, at any elite level, These guys are in the NFL, and the guys that I work with in the ufc, they always have this sense of urgency and discipline. And the other thing that we want to look at also is how well they can take, let's say, what I give them and put it into practice.

[C]

Right.

[A]

How can they put it into play and how coachable are they? So with that, I'm looking at how well they can understand the basics and then take it to the next level. Right. So with those individuals, they're Disciplined, Right. They have good understanding of where they want to go. They know what their weak points are and they want to make them better. And that's the biggest thing.

[B]

Did you see that clip with Shannon Sharp and that receiver about training?

[C]

No.

[A]

What happened?

[B]

He's, he told this receiver, I forget who it was, but he said, if you trained as hard as me, you'd be the goat.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And the guy was like, no, I like my fast food. I like, you know, certain things.

[A]

It's those small little details, man. It's that 1%. Honestly, when you get to that level, it go, okay, what is something that is holding you back from being the absolute elite that you can be?

[C]

Right?

[A]

And a lot of times it comes down to, okay, maybe it's mobility, maybe, you know, it's your overall functionality and how you go about achieving what you need to on a daily basis. And a lot of times I look at athletes as a full spectrum, right. So if I'm looking at them, assessing their, their abilities, I want to see, okay, are they biomechanically efficient for the actual sport? Do they have the proper endurance? Do they have the mental capacity to withstand these types of stressful situations? And when you have all that together, especially when you have an opponent right next to you, let's say it's a one on one with the ufc. These guys that have that mental fortitude that know how to take it to the next level and block out the noise, they become the elite.

[C]

Right.

[B]

I love how you encompass everything because a lot of trainers just focus on phys. Physical. Right. And maybe diet, but you're like, no, let me focus on mental health too.

[A]

Yeah. I mean, with fighting it's, it's important. But in all sports it's important, right. To have a mental edge and you have to have the confidence in your abilities in order for you to, to be the best that you can be.

[C]

Right.

[A]

And that's where you're going to see what separates the good from the great.

[C]

You see what I'm saying?

[B]

Yeah. Because a lot of people fold in those critical moments. They just shut down. Something mentally goes wrong, right?

[A]

Absolutely, absolutely. I think, you know, for me, when I was actually fighting, the times that I lost fights was that I wasn't mentally in there.

[C]

Wow.

[A]

Right. And you can tell when that cage door closes. It's either, okay, I'm ready to go, or I'm not. And you can't call on anybody at that point. That's why fighting in general is, it's very, it's nerve wracking. You know, and I think it's primal in a lot of ways, too. And it becomes something of second nature if you know how to one, hone in the details, work the game plan and stay consistent with that. And then also from there, do not let those distractions take away from the game. And a lot of times we see that guys are great, you know, in the gym world, beaters in the gym.

[B]

Right.

[A]

They go into the fight and then, you know, something happens where they don't look the same. It's because they couldn't block out the noise and they couldn't stay the course.

[B]

Absolutely. There's fights you probably had where you were more athletic, you were more talented, that you lost.

[A]

Absolutely. I lost fights that I should have won based off of focus, you know, and so when I started coaching, I wanted to make sure that I reiterated that to most of the guys.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Now, guys like Dustin Poirier, they're already locked in. Right. But there's still times where you have to stay with them.

[C]

Right.

[A]

You have to.

[D]

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[A]

H-E-L-P.comDSH be there and you have to give them goals to accomplish throughout that camp so that they become more confident in their abilities. Naturally, they already are skillful.

[C]

Right.

[A]

They're talented. They wouldn't be at that level. But when you give them something that is not a part of, let's say for instance, for me with resistance training, for strength training, if I can get them maybe 1% stronger, if they increase their 1 rep max by 5%, it may not transfer over physically. It may also physically, but most importantly, it transfers over mentally.

[B]

When did Dustin approach you and what was that journey like with him?

[A]

The first time we talked, I got the job at American Top Team and we talked for about an hour or two just because I used to fight a lot in Louisiana, so like, you know, just. Just shooting the shit, stuff like that and making sure that we started. Started to look at communication appropriately. And I wanted to make sure that he understood what I was about. I would say right after the Michael Johnson fight, he. He text me and he goes, man, I'm ready to go. And from there on, we had seven camps together.

[C]

Wow.

[A]

With five years of work, so it's been great, man. He's. He's one of those guys that helped me achieve coaching success and allowed me to be a better coach because of it.

[B]

What was like, did he have any big problems that you were trying to solve, any metrics?

[A]

A lot of times. I mean, he's never lift weights a day in his life really before that. Now, he may have done some things here and there, but he never really strength trained. So getting him stronger, getting him, you know, to understand his body a little bit more. Increasing mobility in each joint capsule, giving him the ability to do what he does inside the cage. And that's primarily what I wanted to focus on. I wanted to build a bigger base of structural integrity of strength and his ability to correlate that over into the skills that he has. Yeah, that was my biggest thing. And a lot of times, you know, with these guys, they have. They have injuries, they have issues. Each and every day they come into the gym and I have to auto regulate, I have to call an audible because, you know, let's say they kicked an elbow or something along the lines of that. And now the training that I had laid out goes out the window because they can't do the things that I had planned.

[C]

Right.

[A]

So being able to structure a training session around what could or could not happen and then from there still progress them with whatever I could do that.

[B]

Makes sense for the McGregor fight, were you trying to increase his stamina, to.

[A]

Try to Outlast the thing with Dustin and some of these guys, they naturally have great conditioning. Right. Their genetic predisposition is endurance. And so he has a high Bo2 max. That means, you know, he has high oxygen utilization, so he can utilize oxygen and deliver it. He has the ability to recover in between rounds. My goal was to make sure that he was confident in his abilities from a power production standpoint and being able to have that power throughout all five rounds. Mobility, too, as well. On top of that, being able to not only get into positions, but be strong in those positions and be strong in those end ranges. If you do, you know, jiu jitsu and grappling, you understand that you have to be in these contorted, kind of weird positions most of the time, but if you're not strong in those positions, you're going to end up getting hurt. Interesting.

[C]

Wow.

[B]

So you got to kind of train in those weird positions, right?

[A]

The most of the time. Yeah. We want to make sure one, they have the joint prerequisites to get there, increase that range, and then get stronger in that range.

[B]

Yeah. There's been some nasty, like, areas in the UFC where like, you're like stretched all over the place.

[A]

And you can imagine if you get stretched out to that degree and you're not strong enough, you're going to tear something.

[C]

Right.

[A]

And that's where we find most of the non contact injury injuries occur too, as well. You know, with fighting, you know, you're going to have lacerations, you're going to get concussions, you're going to get bruises, things like that. But the one thing that we can work on inside of a weight room or physical preparation perspective is to increase their ability to get into these positions and be safe. Right. So reduce the risk of injury is the primary focus, especially in camp.

[B]

Yeah. With all the new advancements and new knowledge, do you think fighters can fight into their 40s now?

[A]

Yes. I don't recommend it. You see more and more of that now. You know, I have guys and girls that still fight in well into their 40s.

[B]

Wow.

[A]

Do I believe in it? If you feel like it's something that you need to do, I'm never going to tell a fighter not to continue fighting.

[C]

Right.

[A]

Because it's in them, and most of the time that's all they know. So if that's the case, then I'm going to get them well prepared to do so. But the training does change. Right. The preparation will definitely alter based upon them being at that age. Recoverability is immensely important. And what we want to do is we want to make sure that they're able to maintain their ability to be strong and explosive. Because a lot of times when you get older, speed kind of deteriorates. Your strength and your ability to squeeze, from an MMA standpoint kind of stays. Conditioning to a degree will stay. But that speed, right, that, that explosiveness, that twitchiness kind of starts to dissipate. And that's why we want to make sure that we can continue on with that speed work. Continue on with that speed endurance work. And that's how I'll alter it. But again, like I said, it's making sure that they are ready to step in the cage or step in the ring when the time comes.

[C]

Right.

[B]

I wonder why the speed decreases so rapidly. Like in your late 20s, 30s, right?

[A]

Yeah. I think that a lot of times, like just getting older, athletes stop wanting to do sprinting or speed work or anything like that. The goal for any athlete is to be faster and more explosive than your opponent.

[C]

Right.

[A]

You play basketball, right. So being able to get down the court, being able to, you know, dunk and be explosive from that triple extension, you start to stop doing that getting older. And that's the problem with just people in general. They stop sprinting, they stop jumping, and then, then they lose it.

[C]

Right.

[A]

You don't use it, you lose it. So it's just kind of making sure that they have that ability to do it over and over again and keep putting it into the training process so they don't lose it.

[B]

Yeah, I'm just finding out how important sprinting is, man. Yeah, I think it's more important than running.

[A]

I mean, sprinting in general, just because attendant elasticity, especially for your sport too, is basketball. Running is a different. If you're talking about jogging or anything like that, if that's for more cardiovascular endurance, it's obviously going to be good. It's going to be good for blood flow. It's going to be good for just overall longevity and health and wellness sprinting, however, from a performance standpoint and also a health standpoint, right. Increasing tendon stiffness and elasticity, increasing your ability to have neuromuscular efficiency, being able to explode and redirect and things of that nature, changing direction. A lot of people still don't do that when they get older. They stop working cut drills and having to absorb and redirect force. That's important for everyday use, especially for athletes, too.

[B]

Yeah, those cut drills. Yeah, I haven't done those in years, man. I remember doing those.

[A]

The 510 5. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[B]

What was that one called where you had to sprint, touch the ground and then.

[A]

Yeah, that's the 510 or the agility, like the. The 5105 agility shuttle test. Another one. The L drill is another one. Just being able to absorb force and then redirect it is very important.

[B]

How much importance are you placing on the supplement side?

[A]

I am. I mean, a lot of times now, athletes, you know, obviously I'm gonna go with nutrition first, whole foods before anything. But nowadays it's very hard to find whole nutritious foods. Right, right. So if they don't have something that's, you know, that's organic, that's grass fed, that's, you know, locally raised in a lot of ways, especially out here. You're in Vegas.

[B]

Right?

[A]

So it's tough out there. It's tough. It's tough for us. You know, if I can't get the nutrients from food, I'm going to supplement that. And that's all. That's why it's called supplements. So we need to make sure that we have that Anything that's going to be supplemented is going to be something that's going to help them, not just from a performance standpoint, but from a health and longevity standpoint. So Omega 3s, a standard multivitamin. It will always be good. I like creatine monohydrate too, as well. It has been shown through recent studies and studies in the past that it does help with traumatic brain injury, so it can reduce that too, as well. So we like to have them take 2 to 5 grams after every sparring session too, as well.

[B]

Smart. I need to start taking that. I had a TBI on the brain scan I just took.

[C]

Really? Yeah, yeah.

[A]

I've had. I've had eight concussions, man. So you got. Yeah, we were loading up.

[B]

Have you physically noticed, like, signs of brain damage from those?

[A]

Well, I played football since I was 7, and I think that accumulation of all those, you know, obviously taking the proper precautions, making sure that I'm. I'm taking Omega 3s, right? I'm taking things that are going to bring down inflammation and then also creatine monohydrate too, as well, now I'm pretty solid. This was a point. This was probably around. I was 25, so this was somewhere around 2014, 2015. And I was trying to go back for my Ph.D. and I just, I wasn't grasping what the, you know, what. What they were saying. And so I was like, man, let me go check out what's going on went to a neurologist and they said, man, if you don't stop fighting, you're going to have, you know, Alzheimer's by the time you're 50.

[B]

Holy crap.

[A]

So I got, you know, I was like, damn. And this is, I was still a professional fighter, right? My son was about to be born and I called Dean Thomas and he was just like, listen, if you don't stop, it's not like it's your, you know, your knee or your, even your back. It's your brain. You really don't want to mess with that. And since I was successful in coaching and I had a good business running, I was like, you know what? It took me two weeks to really, like, make up. Okay. Make up my mind if I'm going to leave the sport, stop training or stop competing at least and go about actually going full, go into coaching. And I think that that was the best thing for me. I'm gonna say, yes, it was the best thing for me because I was able to focus now on one particular aspect of my life, which at that point, from a professional standpoint, it was coaching as opposed to trying to be an athlete and coach at the same time.

[B]

It's hard to do two things at.

[A]

The same time, especially when you're trying to do it at the highest level.

[C]

Right.

[A]

You see what I'm saying now if, like for me now, I still train, right? I still do jiu jitsu, I still kickboxing, Muay Thai, but I'm not competing for anything at that level. Right. I'm not competing as it is my profession.

[B]

Right.

[A]

My focus is on my athletes and it'll continue to do that, but I will still compete when it's necessary or when I feel the need to. But obviously being safe along the way too as well.

[B]

Absolutely. Who are your current athletes right now?

[A]

I have Robisi Ramirez. We're about to start camp. He's a two time gold medalist and we're looking to get the WBO title.

[C]

Nice.

[A]

So that's, that's one that's coming up. As far as, like I said, I have NFL athletes that just got back into minicamp, so we're looking for some good news from them. I'm looking to actually work with some judo Olympians too as well. Just got done with a couple of junior Olympic athletes too. Timbaland is another one of my guys. And yeah, just. I'm really selective now with my, with who I'm working with. And then on top of that, I coach coaches too now.

[C]

Right.

[B]

Because they need the Mindset for you to take them on because you could tell them all the stuff and if they don't actually do it, you know.

[A]

Yeah, yeah, it's. It's. I've worked with well over 200 professional athletes and fighters in the UFC, NFL, MLB. But the thing is, is that they have to want it, you know, and. And I'm going to give them everything that I can, you know, so if they're not ready and tapped in, then it's just pointless for us to go further. Another thing now is I'm doing a lot more seminars and things of that nature, so that's kind of taken up a lot of my time.

[B]

You got the pod too, right?

[A]

Yeah, yeah. Podcast, YouTube channel.

[B]

Absolutely. You were talking about breath work earlier, which surprised me. You know, I don't see any coaches teaching breath work, man.

[A]

For. For us, it's important, you know, not only from a, you know, from a performance standpoint, but from a recoverability standpoint. You know, a lot of these guys are training multiple times throughout the day, so it's not what you can do, it's. It's what you can recover from. So what I wanna do is I wanna enhance their ability to recover as fast as possible and bringing down that stressful environment by utilizing the breath. We do a form of box breathing, which is a parasympathetic breathing protocol that you can do. This is something that I will do in between sessions so that they can bring down their stress levels, increase readiness, and perform at their best. The biggest thing for me is that once they get into camp or once they, like, let's say, close to the season, the goal is to make sure that they're able to do their sport. So I have to be able to get them recovered enough from the training session to do that. Yeah. So we'll utilize breathwork protocols. We'll utilize parasympathetic breathing, you know, material, stuff like that. I'll have them lay 90, 90. You can see it, some of my videos. But they'll lay on the ground, feet up, elevated, so that they get 360 degrees of expansion through the ribcage, through the lumbar spine, creating that diaphragmatic breathing mechanism so that it can bring down their stress levels in a lot of ways. And that usually helps bring down heart rate, increases their recovery, the recovery rate. And then when, let's say, for instance, in between rounds in a fight, the goal is to bring down the heart rate as fast as possible. Yeah. Because that allows them to be ready to go again when the BELL RINGS.

[B]

I didn't even think about that.

[A]

So that's a big indicator for me to see how ready they are. So my goal is, once we get closer to the fight, I want to see if they can bring down the heart rate at least 30% from where they were at. Usually it's around. Usually it's around 172, 175 beats per minute, if you're really pushing it. And then the goal is to get them down to about 130 if we can.

[C]

Wow.

[B]

And in what time frame? Just in between the round. Holy crap. That's a quick decrease.

[A]

Yoana and Jaycecheck and Dustin Poirier had the fastest recoverability time.

[C]

Really?

[A]

Yeah, yeah, they were. They were. It would drop down like a. Just like a countdown.

[B]

Wow. So they had really good mental resilience.

[A]

Resilience and aerobic capacity, I would say, you know, primarily because they're able to take in that oxygen and bring down their heart rate, and they're efficient with their breathing and they're efficient with their movement. So, you know, Dustin can go off camp and pretty much just maintain throughout his off camp, Right. And what I mean by that is, if he's back home, he may be able to do some type of grappling or something like that, but he's not in camp. He's not really pushing it.

[C]

Right.

[A]

But because he's so efficient, he can get, you know, primarily get off the couch and spar 12 rounds, because when he goes in there, he knows how to manage his output. And you see that with a lot of elite guys. Now, if you can double that up with a great aerobic base, right? Increasing their ability to take in oxygen and utilize it, and then from there have the efficiency, from a technical standpoint, you become unstoppable, right? So all young fighters out there look to gain the skill set necessary for you to have, you know, the ability to be second nature in there, right? To make it almost to be routine. Like, if somebody's gonna shoot on you, you know how to get your hips in, dig for underhooks, get out, create distance or separation, and then rain your shots. But on top of that, be able to calm your body down in between rounds. And you have to have a great aerobic base. You need to increase your aerobic capacity, and then you also need to buffer out lactate. So you need to get into these zones where you're pushing very hard. And your ability to recover in between those rounds are super efficient.

[B]

Right.

[A]

You know, that's where you see those Guys that, like a Colby Covington or Dustin Poirier that have that ability to go for five rounds easily, but at.

[B]

The same time you don't want to overtrain, right?

[C]

No.

[A]

That's why periodization and programming appropriately is important. Right. So like having the understanding of the athlete, having a proper assessment protocol, knowing where their limiters are from a bioenergetics demand standpoint, and then also looking at what the demands are going to be called upon inside the fight. Are they fighting three by three, three by threes, or they fighting three by fives? Five by fives, whatever.

[C]

Right.

[A]

And then the opponent, what is the opponent going to give you? Right. Is the opponent a grappler? Are they a striker? What are some of the things that you're going to have to combat when you get in there? And so that goes along the lines with the preparation, along with the skills and technical training. And they have to be cohesive. Things have to mold together. And that's why you have to have proper communication with all coaches, especially in mma.

[B]

Yeah. There's a ton of coaches, right?

[A]

Yeah. But in any sport, right, you got your, your physical prep coach, you got your athletic trainer, you got your skills coach and you got the head coach.

[C]

Right.

[A]

And if all these guys aren't communicating appropriately, then everybody's going to do their own thing. And then you're throwing the athlete in so many different directions and they don't get better at all. They end up hurting themselves actually.

[C]

Right.

[B]

Have you had any of your clients fight against Sean Strickland?

[A]

No. No. But Sean is, is a. Okay, perfect example of being efficient. Right, Right. He doesn't get tired because he just stays his, you know, in his, in his structure. Right. He doesn't deviate from this game plan. And it may be boring to some people, but he's obviously being efficient and successful in what he does.

[C]

Right?

[B]

Well, he spars non stop, too.

[A]

Yeah. Yeah.

[B]

And people say he doesn't hold back.

[A]

Sparring, so he doesn't. I've seen videos. I've seen videos, dude.

[B]

Did you see that drama with him and Goggins?

[A]

I did, man.

[B]

That probably hurt you because you like both of them.

[A]

Yeah. I mean, it's fun. He said he apologized. Who did Strickland apologize?

[B]

Oh, he apologized.

[A]

He said. All right. Wow.

[B]

I never would have expected that.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

This was recent, so he said, he said he apologized, which is like, you kind of have to, man. It's Goggins.

[B]

It's Goggins.

[A]

You know what I mean?

[B]

That's the goat of.

[A]

And he's not a fighter. Goggins is not a fighter. He's, he's, he's a fighter mentality for sure, but he's not a cage fighter. He's not a UFC fighter. You can't challenge that. You know, and the thing that you cannot say that he's soft, that he's an individual that doesn't look to go through some difficult situations. But at the end of the day, he's also in his. I think he's in his 50s now, right, guys?

[B]

He's up there, man.

[A]

So, I mean, that too. That plays a role. And he's never fought before in his life.

[B]

Yeah, these ultra marathons, man. I'm recently learning that running too much is not good for you, though.

[A]

I mean, in. Anything in excess can be bad. It can be detrimental, right? I just did a 51 mile ruck walk.

[B]

Geez.

[A]

I got put in the hospital for it.

[B]

Oh, my God.

[A]

I was supposed to do 150 miles. So I had £60 on my back. And my goal, I was raising money for the military. My goal was to finish 150 miles. And it got to a point where mentally I was still there. Like, I not gonna stop, but physically I had holes in my feet. I had, you know, toenails were gone and I developed rhabdo.

[B]

What's up?

[A]

Rhabdomyolysis, basically, it's proteins and enzymes that go into the blood after too much muscle. Let's say, you know how you work out, right? And you damage the muscle, right? You split the muscle apart, right? And it allows it to grow. But if you do it too much, it becomes detrimental and you can actually have kidney failure.

[B]

Holy crap.

[A]

So I was in the process of getting. Of getting to kidney failure. Dude, that's not. So that breakdown was so severe and so drawn out for a long duration of time that at that point I was, they, they ran some tests and they said, listen, you know, your, your creatine kinase levels are way above where they normally need to be, let's say. Okay, so mine was at 10,000.

[B]

Your creatine.

[A]

Yeah, creatine kinase.

[B]

Got it.

[A]

And there normally should be around a hundred times. Holy crap.

[B]

So you were what is that, 10 times?

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

Or 100 times higher?

[A]

Pretty much. And so I go, okay. Well, they had to admit me. And at that point I could have said, okay, listen, I'm gonna keep going and potentially make it worse. Obviously. That would be stupid of me, right? I started thinking about long term, about, okay, if I go deeper into rhabdo, then I cannot do the things that I need to do after this for a long time. Years. So I started thinking long term, and that's when I decided, okay, we're gonna cut it now, but we'll learn from this, and we'll do it again. I'll probably do it again in December. Wow.

[B]

So you were physically ready, but something just happened.

[C]

Physically ready.

[A]

I stepped in a big, like, a gigantic puddle, which was, like, ankle, like, shin deep? Pretty much, yeah. That caused a bunch of blisters to occur. Right. We didn't have a checkpoint, and we were doing this all on our own. This wasn't, like, mapped out or anything.

[B]

Oh, God.

[A]

It was mapped out on our own, but we didn't have, like. You were solo. Yeah, I had, like, three guys with me, basically four guys total. But. But, yeah, it wasn't, like, organized, you know, it was us just doing it. And my checkpoint wasn't until probably the next 20 miles, so I ended up getting all these, you know, blisters on my feet, hot spots on the bottom of my sole of my feet. And what ended up happening was my feet started to split apart.

[C]

Jeez.

[A]

So it felt like I was walking on broken glass.

[B]

Holy crap.

[A]

For this was. This happened in mile 10. So by mile 25, my feet were completely wrecked.

[B]

So with 60 pounds in your bag, too?

[A]

Yeah, yeah. That was the biggest issue. So, I mean, now we know, okay, we're gonna have several different shoes. You know, I'm gonna have boots. I'm gonna have, you know, 10 pairs of socks. I had six pairs of socks, and I sweated out of those because we're in the. You know how it is. Miami heat.

[B]

Yeah. Yeah.

[A]

We're in the humidity, so it didn't matter. And you learn from that process, though. You learn from the pain.

[C]

Wow.

[A]

And so I'll adapt and. And go from there.

[C]

Nice.

[A]

Dude.

[B]

Have you done, like, a marathon or, like, an Iron man or anything?

[A]

So the next thing I want to do is. It's just a marathon. I run pretty consistently, so I'll do 10, 12 miles.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

But I'll run consistently, and then I want to do a marathon, and then I want to do an ultra after that. That's 52 miles or it's anywhere above 50 miles. Yeah, yeah. So I do want to do the 100 and the 150, and then eventually do the Cocodona 250.

[B]

And what's compelling you to take it to this level?

[A]

Because I need to push myself mentally, physically, as well, but more so I don't have a void that I could feel like how I did when I was fighting. Other than what I do here with the ultras. Putting yourself in the position to grow and evolve, and some may say that's stupid, whatever, but if you're an athlete and you've been an athlete all your life, and you stop and even though I'm coaching and it fulfills me from that perspective as a professional, I still have this void that needs to be filled. When it comes down to going after something that I think is bigger than me and pushing myself beyond what I feel that I can do. And every time you get closer to that edge, you gain more strength. So improving that through pain is important.

[B]

I love that, man. Because you're already top 1% athlete, and you're still finding levels to reach.

[A]

There's every. You can always get better. There's always a way to improve. There's always a way to challenge yourself.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Whether I'm rock climbing or, you know, doing, you know, these. These deep dives. Doing underwater training now.

[B]

You're doing deep dives?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

How deep we talking?

[A]

I'm trying to get. I'm trying to get down there, man. Trying to get. It's tough. It's tough.

[B]

Submarine thing didn't scare you?

[A]

So the free diving thing is something. My wife hates this, man. But it's something that I feel like. Because I do not. Like not being in control.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

You know, and so claustrophobia and, like, the dive reflex and all that, that pushes my mind beyond anything other than a, you know, a training in the weight room. You know, this is. This is way difficult. Way more difficult than anything that I could ever imagine. And that's why I want to do it. See what I'm saying? So it's important for me to get to that position and always try to push the pace because of the fact that I'll feel alive when I do that. That's, you know, awesome.

[B]

Are those dives with an oxygen tank or is it without the.

[C]

Nope.

[A]

Just off. Breath hold. Whoa. Yeah. So that's the biggest thing. And on top of that, it helps me to increase my lung capacity.

[C]

Right, right.

[A]

From a. From a health perspective. Now, don't get me wrong, when you're pushing that intense, it isn't healthy, but it's a performance thing at that point. And from a health perspective. You want to talk about mental health. Definitely. Physiologically, maybe not.

[B]

How long can you hold your breath? Right now?

[A]

I've been able to hold for five minutes.

[B]

Damn.

[A]

Yeah, for five.

[B]

That's impressive.

[A]

One breath hold.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

I'M up to three because of Wim Hof. But I heard there's some, like, deep meditations you could get into with it.

[A]

And you just gotta calm the body down.

[B]

You could hold it for like 7, 8 minutes if you do it right.

[A]

I. I did a two and a half with air out, so on the exhale.

[B]

Holy crap.

[A]

Two and a half. But that was laying down, you know, on my back.

[B]

Dude, that's insane, man. There's some. Some deep stuff you could do with breath work, for sure.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I've heard of people hallucinating.

[A]

Oh, man, it's crazy. You can. You can get into that full euphoric state, you know, but it's, it's. I mean, for me, I've never done it. I don't know if you have done it like ayahuasca or not like that.

[B]

I'm a little scared, to be honest.

[A]

For sure. I mean, but you can get into a very deep meditative state through the breath, through those breath holds. Like you've done Wim Hof before, you know, so these are the things that are going to make you just a better person and better human being, you know? And then on top of that, it allows you to really push the envelope because let's face it, it's not so much that you don't have oxygen. It's how bad can you cope with air hunger? And how much can you cope with that CO2 buildup? And from there you become again a stronger, more adapted individual. Wow.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

When you put it that way, it's almost like a mental test.

[A]

Oh, yeah, definitely.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

I think that for me, I'm claustrophobic to a degree. And I think, like, that stuff right there, if you find a weakness and that's your limiter, go after it, you know?

[B]

Really? We were just in an elevator with like seven people. I didn't notice.

[A]

I was, all right, it's the tunnels. I was always. I was like, you know, I trained a couple of firefighters and they have to go through this, these, these crawling tests. They go through the tunnel, it's pitch black. And they got to go all the way through.

[B]

Jeez.

[A]

And I'm like, damn, that's tough, man, because you can barely move in there.

[C]

Yeah, yeah.

[A]

Inch worming through.

[B]

You ever watch those cave crawling videos?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So it's. Wow. You watch that to get over your fear.

[A]

Yeah. I'm like, those make me itch, dude. It's so bad. Like, I'm just like, I'm feeling for him. And you know what? At that point, when they're, like, doing those, you know, in those caves, and they're doing all that stuff in the mines and stuff, and I'm like, these guys have no problem with that shit.

[B]

They like it.

[A]

It's. It's no problem. Because they get stimulated enough to where it's. It's just second nature.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

So maybe it was a fear before. It's not anymore. You know, it's like. It's like fighting in a cage. You get to a point where it's like, okay, you're definitely nervous about winning and losing, but it's not. It's. It's just another day in the park. It's like another day at work.

[B]

Yeah. Second nature. Yeah. No, I was scared of podcasting at first.

[A]

You know, public speaking. Same thing. You know, you just get accustomed to it, and you're always going to have some nerves. It's always going to be okay, am I going to do good, am I going to do bad, whatever. But it becomes lessened.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Than the first time.

[B]

And that's where the growth is, too. Like, look at this shit. Like, I was a huge introvert nerd growing up, and now this is, like a huge thing.

[A]

Exactly. I can see it. I can see it. And that's something that allowed you to grow as an individual, and now you're stronger from it, you see? And that's why you got to keep doing it. You can't stop. You know, And I think that people get soft when they. When they stop doing things that are challenging.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

When athletes retire when.

[A]

Yeah. And you start to see that, you know, you start to get comfortable. It's like that. That. That Rocky quote where they started to get like, okay, you got civilized, Rock.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

You stop wanting to train, and you start getting the money. And then, you know, and the same thing with Conor McGregor. You look at him now, you know, he's partying it up. He's by far one of the most successful fighters ever.

[B]

Financially.

[A]

Financially, Absolutely.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

From that perspective, like, he's put the UFC on the map. He's done a lot for the sport, but you could tell he's not all in it the way he was when he was coming up. Obviously, you can't be at that point, you know, so, you know, it's. It's hard. It's hard to. To get up and train when you're that successful.

[B]

Yeah. It's a fine balance. That's why guys like Jon Jones are so impressive, because they're still undefeated even with all the money and stuff.

[A]

Just genetically gifted. In one way, and then also he puts in the work, you know, and then that's where you. You see true greatness at its best. For that, It's. It's how long you can sustain that. Greatness is really what, like, kind of solidifies who you are, you know, and how well you can keep pushing the pace. And even with the guys that are highly skillful and talented, like, look at Michael Jordan, look at Kobe Bryant. Look at all these guys that, like, kind of still wanted to get better no matter how. How much success they've had. And they were the first in the weight room, they were the first in the gym. You know what I mean?

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

The last to leave, cussing out their teammates. That's because they're the best and they were the greatest, and they're going to be the greatest.

[B]

Absolutely. Phil, it's been awesome, man. Where could people find your gym, find your show, and find out what you're up to?

[A]

All the social media stuff, the R. Strong, Instagram, Twitter, all of that stuff. I guess X Now, and then YouTube too, as well. Phil Der Strong.

[C]

Boom.

[B]

We'll link below. Thanks for coming on, man.

[A]

My brother.

[B]

Yeah, thanks for watching, guys. See you next time.