Former Levi’s CMO Jennifer Sey: “Why I Left, Why I Fought Back & What Brands Don’t Get” | DSH #1635

Summary

Digital Social Hour – Episode Summary

Podcast: Digital Social Hour
Host: Sean Kelly
Guest: Jennifer Sey (Former Levi’s CMO, Founder of XXY Athletics)
Episode: #1635 – "Former Levi’s CMO Jennifer Sey: Why I Left, Why I Fought Back & What Brands Don’t Get"
Date: November 23, 2025

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Episode Overview

In this candid, unfiltered conversation, Sean Kelly welcomes Jennifer Sey—once the Chief Marketing Officer of Levi’s and now founder of XXY Athletics—for a forthright exploration of her career, activism, and perspectives on business and culture. The discussion traverses Jennifer’s exit from Levi’s, her crusade for women’s sports, brand missteps in marketing, political and social upheavals since 2020, and her concerns on issues from manufacturing ethics to public schooling. The dialogue is marked by Jennifer’s uncompromising opinions and Sean’s probing questions, touching on headline-grabbing marketing campaigns, corporate hypocrisy, and the culture wars shaping America today.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Brand Transparency & Ethical Manufacturing

• No Production in China (00:00, 17:12)
  • Jennifer explains why XXY Athletics refuses to manufacture in China—primarily due to lack of transparency and inability to confirm humane factory conditions.
    • "In China, you cannot enter the factories. There's no transparency. ... If you're not going to let me in, I'm not making stuff there." (Jennifer, 00:00 / 17:12)
  • Strong commitment to visiting every production site and valuing both quality and worker decency.

2. XXY Athletics & Women's Sports Advocacy

• Founding Mission (00:47)
  • XXY Athletics is positioned as the athletic brand defending the exclusivity of women’s sports for biological females.
    • "We want women's sports to be for women only, which seems sort of obvious, but it's not right now." (Jennifer, 00:47)
• Activism in Collaboration (01:06)
  • Collaboration with Riley Gaines as spokesperson; success in merchandise drops.
• Policy & Cultural Battles (01:29, 02:18)
  • Changes in US athletic policy, including executive orders and NCAA/U.S. Olympic Committee decisions.
  • Ongoing legal and cultural clashes in various states, especially "blue" states resisting restrictions.

3. Personal Athletic Experience & Whistleblowing

• Reports of Abuse in Gymnastics (05:33)
  • Jennifer’s own background as a national team gymnast, enduring and exposing abuse long before the #MeToo movement.
    • "I wrote a book... It was the first whistleblower account of abuse in the sport, which now everybody knows about because of Larry Nassar." (Jennifer, 05:33)
• Long struggle for recognition, eventual vindication as abusive coaches banned decades later.
• Her injuries and disregard for athlete wellbeing revealed systemic issues (08:03, 09:23).

4. Brand Management & Recent Marketing Controversies

• Cracker Barrel & Bud Light Marketing Failures (11:10, 13:43)
  • Brands' attempts to rebrand or chase new audiences often reflect disconnect and elitism.
    • "It's the cardinal sin in brand management. Know your customer. ...I think she [Cracker Barrel CEO] doesn't like the current customer." (Jennifer, 11:10)
    • "That [Bud Light] head of marketing said... our current customer is fratty and out of touch. She didn't like him. Well, tough, if you don't like him, he likes Bud Light." (Jennifer, 13:43)
• Levi’s Turnaround Example (14:28)
  • Jennifer details her turnaround strategy—respecting legacy, learning from devoted customers, and communicating core brand values in modern ways.

5. Competition, Manufacturing, & Apparel Industry

• Apparel Industry Challenges (16:26)
  • Increased competition in jeans, high production costs, and import tariffs.
• Push for US Manufacturing (17:00, 18:33)
  • Difficulty bringing apparel production back to the US due to lost skilled labor and factories.
    • "There haven't been factories in the United States in a meaningful way since the mid to late 90s." (Jennifer, 18:22)

6. Changing Societal Norms & Marketing: American Eagle Example

• Sydney Sweeney Campaign (19:14)
  • Praise for reverting to “hot girls in jeans” as effective, “aspirational” advertising.
    • "Hot girls and jeans sell stuff. ...We buy the aspiration. ...The best part...they didn't apologize." (Jennifer, 19:16/21:09)
  • Critique of “norm-challenging” campaigns pushed as inclusive but not commercially successful.

7. Corporate Disconnection & “Eat the Dog Food” Philosophy

• Authenticity in Leadership (22:59)
  • Emphasis on executives loving their own products and customers.
    • "You have to love the product. You have to know the consumer. If you're not going to love it and you're not going to wear it, how can you convince other people to?" (Jennifer, 22:59)

8. Ideological Shifts & COVID-19 Response

• Political Realignment (24:37)
  • COVID response, especially school lockdowns and hypocrisy in blue states, triggered Jennifer’s shift away from Democrats.
    • "Covid turned me. I'll never vote Democrat again. ...Everything the Democrats said they stood for, they betrayed all of their own stated values." (Jennifer, 28:09)
• Censorship & Social Media (29:05)
  • Experiences of censorship for advocating reopening schools, decrying how dissent was systematically silenced by both tech and government.

9. Gender, Pronouns, and Local Laws

• Colorado Law & Brand Impact (32:56)
  • Colorado’s law criminalizing “misgendering” and Jennifer’s legal challenge.
    • "We're suing the state...if some man who thinks he's a woman came in to provoke me and I said, 'sir, can I help you?' He could press charges." (Jennifer, 33:04)
  • Importance of using biologically correct pronouns in company material (34:02).

10. On “Trans” Issues & Schools

• Perspectives on Gender Identity (35:15, 51:14)
  • Jennifer maintains her support for reality-based language and spaces, expressing concern for the impact of gender ideology on children and gay youth.
    • "It's all mental illness. ...Do you really believe there's such a thing as being born in the wrong body? I don't believe it." (Jennifer, 50:31)
  • Concerns about transitional procedures in public schools and potential “grooming” of gay children toward medicalized identities (51:14).

11. Societal Changes – Urban America & Homelessness

• City Decline (39:39, 41:46)
  • Firsthand accounts of San Francisco’s, LA’s, NY’s downtown decline, rising crime, homelessness, and difficulties in urban life post-pandemic.
    • "You can't have a thriving city with no downtown. ...50% of the storefronts closed downtown." (Jennifer, 40:49)
• Middle Class Erosion (44:01)
  • Prediction that American cities will split into ultra-rich and homeless, with the middle class squeezed out.

12. Progress & Hope

• Continued Advocacy (45:30)
  • Despite dark subjects, Jennifer expresses hope regarding the progress made to protect women’s sports, referencing new regulations in international boxing and possible change in global sports standards (46:13).

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Transparency in Manufacturing:
  "If you're not going to let me in [the factory], I'm not making stuff there." (Jennifer, 00:00 / 17:12)

• Protecting Women’s Sports:
  "We want women's sports to be for women only, which seems sort of obvious, but it's not right now." (Jennifer, 00:47)

• On Brand Loyalty:
  "You have to love the product. You have to know the consumer. ...If you're not going to wear it, how can you convince other people to?" (Jennifer, 22:59)

• On COVID and Political Awakening:
  "Covid turned me. I'll never vote Democrat again. ...Everything the Democrats said they stood for, they betrayed." (Jennifer, 28:09)

• On Gender & Pronouns:
  "Once you grant that if you say this person is a woman because they think they are, then how do you say you can't come into our sports and spaces?" (Jennifer, 35:19)

• On Marketing & Apology Culture:
  "The best part is they [American Eagle] didn't apologize. ...No one bent a knee. Sydney Sweeney didn't bend a knee. The president of American Eagle didn't. They just made bigger billboards. I think it's awesome." (Jennifer, 21:28)

• City Decay:
  "It's a totally... completely unlivable [San Francisco]. ...It's gonna end up being very, very rich people...and homeless people. No middle class." (Jennifer, 43:40)

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Key Timestamps

• 00:00 – Refusal to manufacture in China: transparency and ethics
• 00:47 – XXY Athletics mission and launch
• 01:22 – Policy progress in women’s sports, legal and cultural battles
• 05:33 – Early whistleblowing on gymnastics abuse
• 11:10–14:13 – Cracker Barrel, Bud Light, and marketing missteps
• 14:28–16:16 – Jennifer’s approach to reviving Levi’s
• 17:00, 18:33 – Challenges of US and overseas manufacturing
• 19:14–21:28 – Analysis of American Eagle’s Sydney Sweeney campaign
• 22:59 – Importance of authenticity in brand leadership
• 24:37–29:05 – Political awakening due to Covid, censorship, and lockdowns
• 32:56–34:02 – Colorado’s misgendering law; impact on business and speech
• 35:15, 50:31 – Views on gender identity and mental health
• 39:39, 41:46–44:01 – Urban decline, homelessness, and societal fragmentation
• 45:30–46:29 – Hope and progress in women’s sports advocacy

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Final Thoughts

Jennifer Sey’s appearance on Digital Social Hour radiates with directness and conviction. She traverses commercial, political, and cultural minefields, advocating for transparency, authenticity, and principled resistance—in branding, in sports, and in society. For listeners, this episode offers sharp insight into how brands can self-sabotage, why personal values matter in the face of corporate consensus, and the real-world consequences of culture wars playing out in business, government, and community life.

Recommended for:
Brand strategists, marketers, athletes, culture commentators, and anyone interested in the interplay of ethics, corporate America, and polarized politics.

Transcript

[Jennifer]

We don't make anything in China. Here's the reason why. In China, you cannot enter the factories. There's no transparency. You can't go in and see what's going on. You can't see how the product is made. You can't see if it's clean. You can't see if people are treated well. Every place we make stuff, we visit. If you're not going to let me in, I'm not making stuff.

[Podcast Host]

Push back. So you really value quality control?

[Jennifer]

Well, I mean, I value quality control, but I also value people being treated with a level of decency in humanity. There's a reason you're not allowed in foreign.

[Podcast Host]

Okay, guys, Jennifer say here, founder of XXXY Athletics, out here in Vegas wearing the brand, of course. Thanks for coming on.

[Jennifer]

Thanks. Thanks for having me. I'm excited.

[Podcast Host]

Yeah, it's a new audience for you. So could you explain actually what your company's about?

[Jennifer]

Absolutely. I started this brand, XXY Athletics about a year ago, a little over. It's the only athletic brand standing up for the protection of women's sports. We want women's sports to be for women only, which seems sort of obvious, but it's not right now.

[Podcast Host]

Not right now.

[Jennifer]

Yeah, that's what we do.

[Podcast Host]

You partnered with the perfect person for this on the recent launch, right?

[Jennifer]

With Riley. Yeah, yeah. We worked with Riley since the very beginning. We launched last March in 2024 and we've continued to work together. She's the spokesperson really for the movement and we just launched a little collection with her that sold out pretty fast.

[Podcast Host]

It's great to see that there's some progress being made too because Stanford revoked opponents titles. Right?

[Jennifer]

Pen?

[Podcast Host]

Yeah.

[Jennifer]

Pended. Yeah. Pen.

[Podcast Host]

Pen.

[Jennifer]

Yeah. There is progress. Like since we started last March, a lot has happened. President Trump signed an executive order which isn't. I mean it acts as law, but it could be overturned and a new one could be written with the next president. So we'd prefer legislation, but the U.S. olympic Committee and the NCAA have already now said that the rule is only women and women's sports. But for all the progress in almost every blue state, you're still seeing boys and girls sports and those blue states are saying, yeah, well that's our state constitution. That's what we view Title 9 as. They think it's a big win for progress to let boys and men steal opportunities from women. So we're not done yet.

[Podcast Host]

Yeah, I know. Newsom and Trump have been fighting about it, right?

[Jennifer]

Yeah. Newsom is suing the federal government because the Federal government is telling him he can't do that. There's an athlete in California who goes by A.B. hernandez, a male who won all sorts of state track championships last year. The school year just started. AB Is now on the volleyball team. Has never played before. Just decided I'm going to be on the volleyball team. Made the team, displaced a woman. But I find this hopeful. The first three games of the season, the other teams forfeited. Wow. In California. So everyone's fed up.

[Podcast Host]

Yeah. Because there were some spikes from males that left some girls with concussions. Right.

[Jennifer]

Yeah. That's another athlete we work with, Peyton McNabb. In 2022, she got smashed in the face with a volleyball. Permanent brain injury.

[Podcast Host]

Permanent. Oh my gosh, that is terrible. I can't believe that's allowed. Still.

[Jennifer]

It I, it's. The whole thing is completely psychotic. I mean, the whole purpose of title nine was to give women their own sports.

[Podcast Host]

Yeah.

[Jennifer]

And this idea that if you say you're a woman, you are and you can come into women's sports is just, it's sheer lunacy.

[Podcast Host]

Yeah, I still remember.

[Jennifer]

I mean, look how tall, how tall are you?

[Podcast Host]

I'm 66.

[Jennifer]

66. If you said you were a woman, you could play on the women's volleyball team in California. Right.

[Podcast Host]

I would be the best.

[Jennifer]

You would kick ass. And you've made. Have you ever played?

[Podcast Host]

No, but I bet it's. If I completed a guest woman, I.

[Jennifer]

Would have stand there smash people at the mall. So, I mean, here's how I look at it. If you look up the world records in track and field, any distance, there isn't a single distance where the woman's time is anywhere close to the men's time. Not one. I mean, if there was no difference between men's and women's bodies, which is the argument these people make, then there. Sometimes a woman would win. And in fact, most of the women's world records can be beaten by 15 year old boys.

[Podcast Host]

Wow.

[Jennifer]

Just high school track.

[Podcast Host]

That's how big the gap is.

[Jennifer]

That's how big the gap is. Which isn't to say that women suck. They don't.

[Podcast Host]

Yeah.

[Jennifer]

Women are amazing at sports in their own, in their own right. But they aren't as fast and strong or as tall. The wingspan, all the things they're not. So we believe women should have their own sports and spaces and that's what we're standing up for. And you know, I started the brand because as I looked around at all the other athletic brands out there, they all make a whole Lot of money, pretending to champion female athletes. And they really treat them with astonishing disregard.

[Podcast Host]

Really? How do you know that?

[Jennifer]

Well, Nike in particular, the big one. There have been very public examples, like public. Like on the COVID of the New York Times. Sexual harassment of female executives, firing of pregnant athletes who are, you know, athlete endorsers. They fire them when they get pregnant. And there was another case. A young woman by the name of Mary Kane, who was in their running training program, who was abused by the coach to the point of wanting to kill herself.

[Podcast Host]

Geez.

[Jennifer]

These are all Nike examples within between 2018 and 2019.

[Podcast Host]

Wow.

[Jennifer]

So they don't really champion female athletes.

[Podcast Host]

That's not good. When you were an athlete, did you deal with anything like that, any discrimination?

[Jennifer]

I dealt. I was a gymnast. I was on the national team for about eight years. And I dealt with a lot of physical and emotional abuse. I wrote a book about it that came out in 2008. It was the first whistleblower account of abuse in the sport, which now everybody knows about. Because of Larry Nassar.

[Podcast Host]

Yeah. That was the first time someone spoke out. It was, wow, 2008. That's not even that long ago.

[Jennifer]

No. And didn't go well for me at first.

[Podcast Host]

Yeah.

[Jennifer]

No one, no one was very open to that. It was before. Me too. It was before Believe All Women. It was very much, shut up and be quiet, you are a liar and a grifter.

[Podcast Host]

So that was like a big deal to do it back then?

[Jennifer]

It was, yeah.

[Podcast Host]

Wow. You don't regret it, though?

[Jennifer]

No, I was right.

[Podcast Host]

Did more people start speaking out because of that?

[Jennifer]

They did. It took a while. You know, when someone speaks out and everybody comes for them and when I say everybody, I mean USA Gymnastics Olympic Committee and they call you terrible names, that's dissuades other people. They don't want to be called those names, you know, I mean, that's the sort of purpose of cancellation overall, right? Is you cancel someone, then no one else will break with the tribe. But I knew I was telling the truth, so I kept going. I didn't want other children to go through what I went through. And all my coaches were still coaching.

[Podcast Host]

Geez.

[Jennifer]

They just got banned from the sport for life. They're all retired because they're old as. Do we curse on this? Yeah, okay, they're old as fuck, but yeah. It's been almost 20 years since I wrote the book. I wrote everything they did in terms of the emotional and physical abuse. And it took almost 20 years.

[Podcast Host]

That's insane. 20 years to see Them get fired.

[Jennifer]

Yeah.

[Podcast Host]

Wow, that's a long time. Must feel good for you.

[Jennifer]

Finally, though, it's a relief.

[Podcast Host]

Yeah, that's.

[Jennifer]

Well, I think it sends a message that style of coaching is not acceptable.

[Podcast Host]

Yeah.

[Jennifer]

I mean, for them, it doesn't matter. They're old, you know, they're in their 70s. But for other coaches, because these, my coaches coach some of the best gymnasts in the country. So for other coaches to see that they're banned, they might think twice before behaving the same way, deploying the same tactics.

[Podcast Host]

Yeah. I wonder if that's a generational thing, because my parents got physically abused, too.

[Jennifer]

I think so. But a lot of the old coaches are still coaching, so they're still doing it the same way. We need a new generation of coaches for sure.

[Podcast Host]

Right. Yeah. Because there's a whole mental side of sports now that people don't acknowledge.

[Jennifer]

It's true. And I think in professional sports, the coaches are much better about, you know, they want to make their investment last.

[Podcast Host]

Yeah.

[Jennifer]

If you pay $20 million for a basketball player, you want to get your money's worth. So if he's injured, you are probably going to do all the right rehab. Whereas with us, it was just go anywhere. I mean, I trained on a broken ankle for two years.

[Podcast Host]

Holy crap. You never got surgery on it after.

[Jennifer]

I left the sport.

[Podcast Host]

Geez. Did you even tell anyone it was broken?

[Jennifer]

Well, it was. I didn't know it was broken until I was 40. So here's the. Yeah, so it was this. It was like a fat. Like a grapefruit and purple. And I had a doctor who said, it's fine, just you. You know, he was very much in cahoots with my coaches, so he would just wave me back out. He would come to our gym every few weeks and give me shots of cortisone. I was underage, didn't ask my parents just shoot me up with cortisone so I could keep going. Then when I left the sport, that same doctor finally did an MRI and said. Well, he didn't say it was broken. He said, you have bone chips? I'll take them out. So he took those out. Then when I was 40 and I had continued to deteriorate, I went to a different doctor and he asked me when the car accident was. He thought I had had a really bad car accident. He had never seen a shattered break. It was a. My ankle was shattered. He said he could see that many years earlier, and he'd only seen that kind of break in a car accident before.

[Podcast Host]

Oh, gosh.

[Jennifer]

That was the first time I learned I'd been training on a broken ankle.

[Podcast Host]

Wow. That is nuts. That's not an easy injury to push through.

[Jennifer]

No. Well, before that, I broke my femur. Also not an easy injury. Brutal.

[Podcast Host]

Yeah, that is brutal. There was a couple viral marketing campaigns lately I wanted to get your opinion on. Some of these would love it.

[Jennifer]

I hope I know what they are.

[Podcast Host]

Go ahead. Yeah, the Cracker Barrel one, the rebranding. What did you think of that?

[Jennifer]

Well, I don't think they wanted it to be viral. Yeah, I. I think it's a pretty typical situation where you have very elite people from fancy places like New York City and Los Angeles and the Upper east side.

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[Podcast Host]

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[Podcast Host]

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[Jennifer]

And they are forcing their own views and tastes on the consumer of this brand. That is nothing like them. They don't care. And it's the. It's the cardinal sin in brand management. Right? Know your customer. And even if, as I'm sure Cracker Barrel needs to do, you need to bring in new, younger customers, you've got to do it in a way that also keeps the traditional customer. That's the backbone of your business. And they just didn't care. I don't think. I think she doesn't like the current customer, the CEO. I think she doesn't like the brand. I think she probably never ate there before she started working there as the CEO and getting paid $7 million a year. And she thought she had no respect for that core Customer. And she just thought, I'm going to make it clean and elevated so my friends on the Upper east side will like it. You know what they also did? They did a pop up in the Meatpacking district. The Meatpacking district in New York. Okay. You can buy a Chanel purse on your lunch break for $6,000 and a studio apartment costs $800,000. This is not the Cracker Barrel customer.

[Podcast Host]

It's a high end customer.

[Jennifer]

But she wants that place to be. She wants her friends to think it's cool that she works there. So she's trying to change the brand, has no respect for the current customer. But they retreated.

[Podcast Host]

Did you see the change of background? They had to. The stock was taken.

[Jennifer]

Yeah.

[Podcast Host]

A lot of people were hating.

[Jennifer]

Yeah. I think though, that that sort of elitism and that idea of we know best what, what you're going to like, it probably infuses all their decisions. So I guess it remains to be seen. Like, are they just retracting the logo because the stock was tanking, but they're not going to do anything else different? Like, are they going to change the way they think about this business? Yeah, I don't know. If they don't, it'll continue to tank.

[Podcast Host]

We'll see. I stopped eating there quite some time ago. It just doesn't feel the same anymore to me.

[Jennifer]

I mean, I admittedly I've never eaten in one.

[Podcast Host]

Oh, really?

[Jennifer]

I lived in San Francisco. I mean, they don't really have them in San Francisco. I lived there for 35 years.

[Podcast Host]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Jennifer]

But if I was gonna work there, I would eat there all the time. If I was interviewing there, I'd eat there all the time.

[Podcast Host]

Yeah, you gotta be your own customer.

[Jennifer]

You gotta be the customer. You gotta love the customer.

[Podcast Host]

Yeah.

[Jennifer]

You gotta really. Even if it's not the people you grew up with, like, you gotta get to know them and you gotta love them. I. The little bit I've read about that brand. There's plenty to love.

[Podcast Host]

I do have some nostalgic memories just walking in there. There's cool candy things and, and it's.

[Jennifer]

Like family, folksy, fun. People have lots of memories about, you know, eating after the baseball championship. There's tons to lean into. But she doesn't like the customer. It's sort of like the Bud Light situation.

[Podcast Host]

Yeah, that was. That one might have been even worse, honestly.

[Jennifer]

Yeah, it was worse, but I think it came from the same place, you know, that head of marketing had said just a few days before the Dylan Mulvaney social Media ad said our current customer is fratty and out of touch. That's what she said. She didn't like him. Well, tough, tough. If you don't like him, he likes Bud Light. You might want to evolve the brand, but you got to keep that guy. You gotta respect him.

[Podcast Host]

Yeah. I think rebranding at a big level, like, that's pretty hard, right?

[Jennifer]

It's really hard.

[Podcast Host]

Yeah. Like Chuck E. Cheese tried doing it. The mouse looks different now, and it's weird. I don't know any companies at a big level that pulled it off, honestly, other than you guys.

[Jennifer]

But, no, I did it at Levi's.

[Podcast Host]

Yeah. What did you do there specifically?

[Jennifer]

Well, when I. I was at Levi's for 23 years and I became the chief marketing officer in 2013, and the brand had been in decline for 10 years, and that what I just described, that Cracker Barrel needed to do, that's what I did. I. I went out, I went around the world. I talked to people who were loyal fans of the brand to understand what they loved about it, because the goal was to take that, whatever they loved about it, express that in a modern, cool way so it didn't feel like old guy jeans and get more people to love that about the brand. I mean, that's like. There's nothing smart about that. That's like basic brand management. And you talk to the customer and you respect the customer. So that's what. That's what we did. We went around the world. I went to 10 different countries and talked to hundreds of people to understand, for those that still love this brand, what do you love about it and.

[Podcast Host]

What were the big conclusions?

[Jennifer]

What people love about Levi's is they feel. This sounds like I'm saying this like a marketing. This is literally what they. There were two things they told me. One was, I feel like the best, most authentic version of myself. Not the person that sits home on the couch playing video games or watching television. The person that, like, is ready to go out into the world and kick butt. That's how they feel near Levi's. Like, it's like their second skin. Yeah, that was the first. And the second was, I wear other things, but I live my life in my Levi's. I have all these memories. The road trip. I met my girlfriend. Like, my. My life is written in my genes. That's what they told.

[Podcast Host]

Wow. Yeah. You guys dominated the gene market. Right.

[Jennifer]

Which is pretty cool. Those are two big ideas.

[Podcast Host]

Yeah.

[Jennifer]

Right. That if. If you. If you honor that, you could then communicate in a modern way. To younger people. So they. So they are attracted to the brand. Yeah. I mean, it's the biggest denim brand in the world.

[Podcast Host]

Oh, is it the biggest?

[Jennifer]

Yeah.

[Podcast Host]

Wow. Yeah, you must have learned a lot there now. Now I can see why you're crushing it with this.

[Jennifer]

I learned a lot. Good. Big iconic brand.

[Podcast Host]

You learn a lot because apparel industry is pretty tough.

[Jennifer]

It's brutal.

[Podcast Host]

Right. The margins aren't as big as others.

[Jennifer]

The margins are decent, but it's. The cost of goods are high. It's a very competitive. There's a lot of. You know, back in the day, when I started in the denim, in the jeans business, there were like three or four big competitors. Now there's hundreds of jeans brands to choose from.

[Podcast Host]

Yeah.

[Jennifer]

So it's just really. It's a lot more competitive than it used to be.

[Podcast Host]

Did the tariffs eat out your margins?

[Jennifer]

A bit now with my current brand, yeah, it's a small hit. It's not terrible for us.

[Podcast Host]

Do you make in America or do you.

[Jennifer]

We do some stuff in the U.S. we're looking to do more. We do a lot of our accessories in the us we do a lot of stuff in Peru.

[Podcast Host]

Peru, wow. I would have thought China or somewhere cheap.

[Jennifer]

We don't make anything in China. Yeah, that's my rule.

[Podcast Host]

You're not a fan of making stuff there?

[Jennifer]

Here's the. Here's the reason why in China, you cannot enter the factories. There's no transparency. You can't go in and see what's going on. You can't see how the product is made. You can't see if it's clean. You can't see if people are treated well. Every place we make stuff, we visit. So if you're not going to let me in, I'm not making stuff there.

[Podcast Host]

Respect. So you really value quality control?

[Jennifer]

Well, I mean, I value quality control, but I also value people being treated with a level of decency and humanity. There's a reason you're not allowed in.

[Podcast Host]

Yeah, I've heard some stuff about China. Sweatshops.

[Jennifer]

Yeah. It's bad. There's forced labor. Uyghur, forced labor.

[Podcast Host]

I'm big on energy, so, like, if I think something's made in a fashion of that manner, then yeah, I mean, obviously it's unavoidable with certain products, but I try to be conscious about buying stuff.

[Jennifer]

It is really hard. Almost everything comes from China. And if it's really hard and it's really hard to make stuff in the U.S. i mean, we don't have the capability in apparel anymore. We used to.

[Podcast Host]

Well, it costs double the price.

[Jennifer]

What's that?

[Podcast Host]

It costs double the prices. If you want to make it overseas.

[Jennifer]

It does. And we don't even have the seamstresses and that. We don't have the talent here. There haven't been factories in the United States in a meaningful way since the mid to late 90s.

[Podcast Host]

Wow.

[Jennifer]

So there's just not a lot of capacity, which is why it's not that easy for me to move everything here. But we're trying. And it will cost more.

[Podcast Host]

Yeah, I know. Trump's trying to bring it back. Right.

[Jennifer]

Well, I mean, that's, I think, at least in part the intent of the tariffs. But it can't happen overnight because you don't have the capacity. But what he just did with Apple, for instance, where they're actually going to build factories to make the glass on the phone. But that, you know, there's some runtime there.

[Podcast Host]

Yeah. It takes some time. People want everything so quickly.

[Jennifer]

They want it now.

[Podcast Host]

Yeah.

[Jennifer]

So we're trying to make what we can here for now.

[Podcast Host]

Yeah. One other campaign I wanted to ask you about was the American Eagle Sydney Sweeney campaign. What did you think about that one?

[Jennifer]

I loved it.

[Podcast Host]

You were a fan?

[Jennifer]

Fan. Hot girls and jeans. It sells. It's not complicated, people. Hot girls and jeans sell more than jeans. You could sell anything. And I, I mean, Cindy Crawford and jeans sold pepsi in the 90s. You're probably too young to remember that one.

[Podcast Host]

I don't. I was born in 97.

[Jennifer]

Yeah, you're. You might. Well, you were too young. Cindy Crawford. You know who Cindy Crawford is?

[Podcast Host]

Heard of it?

[Jennifer]

Kai Gerbera's mom. Do you know Kai Gerbera?

[Podcast Host]

No.

[Jennifer]

Doesn't matter. She's a supermodel. Cindy Crawford was the very first supermodel.

[Podcast Host]

Okay.

[Jennifer]

Super hot jeans at a gas station, Pepsi. Very sexy. Anyway, hot girls and jeans sell stuff. To my mind, it's like the return of. Just the return of the normies.

[Podcast Host]

Yeah.

[Jennifer]

You know, people weren't buying it. The sort of obese people, men, hairy chested men dressed like women. We were supposed to. We were being told that was attractive. Nobody bought it.

[Podcast Host]

The dad bod?

[Jennifer]

No, nobody wanted it. Hot girls and jeans sell product. We buy the aspiration. Nobody. I don't want to see myself. I want to see someone that's better looking than me. I think I might look almost a little bit closer to that than I do right now. So I thought it was great. And you know, the best part of it I thought was they didn't Back down. A few years ago, they would have apologized.

[Podcast Host]

Well, they're. They were getting a lot of hate. I think the stock temporarily dipped.

[Jennifer]

It shot up in the beginning.

[Podcast Host]

It shot up at first.

[Jennifer]

At first it shot up. Then it came down a little because there was so much noise and the media was pretending like this was some sort of Nazi driven. Nazi inspired.

[Podcast Host]

Yeah, they made it a race thing.

[Jennifer]

Yeah. Eugenics ad. And it came down a little bit and then it shot back up.

[Podcast Host]

Oh, it's back up.

[Jennifer]

It's way back up. Yeah, it's up about 15%.

[Podcast Host]

Wow.

[Jennifer]

Yeah. Pretty significant. Wow.

[Podcast Host]

Well done. So that campaign did really well for them.

[Jennifer]

Absolutely. And they didn't apologize. I think that's the thing is it's. It's a new day. They got all this criticism. The mainstream media was writing headlines like Nazi eugenics campaign. And they just did it more.

[Podcast Host]

Yeah. Shout out to them for not apologizing. Because you're right. Two years ago, under a different president, there would have been a video.

[Jennifer]

That was the best part is they didn't apologize.

[Podcast Host]

Yeah.

[Jennifer]

No one bent a knee. Sydney Sweeney didn't bend a knee. The president of American Eagle didn't. They just made bigger billboards. I think it's awesome.

[Podcast Host]

Yeah. They held their ground. It feels nice being able to voice what we believe in these days, to.

[Jennifer]

Just say what you think and also to say this totally normal thing. I mean, there is nothing that special about the ad. It's the context they launched it in. It's a hot girl in jeans. That was every single ad in the 80s and 90s for jeans. I've made hundreds of them when I was at Levi's in the 90s and early 2000s, it's pretty stock and trade. But in the world today, when Calvin Klein runs ads with non binary hairy chested men overweight, and that's what's pushed on us. This feels like a revelation. It feels like an act of rebellion. And it was in some sense. And people loved it.

[Podcast Host]

Ye shout out to American Eagle, man. Who would have thought, who would have thought they would be the ones to stand up?

[Jennifer]

You know why I think though, they're based in Pittsburgh.

[Podcast Host]

Is that pretty liberal or no?

[Jennifer]

I think it's a little bit insulated from, you know, Madison Avenue.

[Podcast Host]

Okay.

[Jennifer]

They probably talk to regular people sometimes.

[Podcast Host]

That that's good for business.

[Jennifer]

Yeah. Yeah. Not that you should have to talk to regular people to know that pretty girls sell jeans. Yeah, it's pretty obvious.

[Podcast Host]

Well, some companies get out of touch with their consumers sometimes. Right.

[Jennifer]

Cracker Barrel.

[Podcast Host]

Yeah, Cracker barrel. But I'd say a lot of bigger companies, that, that's an issue.

[Jennifer]

100%. I mean, the executive, they're. They're often quite disconnected from the products they're selling. And often I'm a big believer that the, the old phrase in, in advertising is you have to eat the dog food. I am a big believer that if you're selling, I mean, I wouldn't eat dog food. You know what I mean? I would give my dog the dog food I worked on. But I wear our product every day. I wore Levi's every day head to toe for 23 years. You have to love the product. You have to know the consumer. If you're not going to love it and you're not going to wear it, how can you convince other people to. Yeah, and I think a lot of these executives. Yeah, they're very disconnected with the customer and the product.

[Podcast Host]

Yeah. I mean, that's why you see people roast Warren Buffett sometimes because, like, he's like, have you ever eaten that fast food or drank that Coke or. You're their biggest investor.

[Jennifer]

Yeah, you know, exactly. When I worked, I worked at the gap in the mid-90s, and they had just purchased Banana Republic. And at the time, I was young. I mean, I couldn't even afford, with my discount to buy a Banana Republic. Every once in a while I would when it was on sale, but none of the executives wore it. They looked down on it. They all wore Prada and Chanel, and I thought it was so weird.

[Podcast Host]

I can't. I can't walk with the. I wear my podcast every day. Like, I'm proud to be doing this. You know what I mean?

[Jennifer]

Yeah. Some people on my team say, are we, if we have an event, are we wearing our clothes? I'm like, of course.

[Podcast Host]

It even be a question.

[Jennifer]

Yeah. It's not a question. Stop asking me that.

[Podcast Host]

Yeah, you always got to be repping your brand.

[Jennifer]

Yeah, exactly.

[Podcast Host]

So, yeah, you mentioned earlier, you. You grew up pretty left, and you were left for a majority of your life. Was this the transit, the men and women's sports, like the turning point for you?

[Jennifer]

Covid.

[Podcast Host]

Covid. So before that men and women stuff.

[Jennifer]

Yeah. Covid. March 13, 2020. I went, this is not. No. And I was against lockdowns from the very beginning. And from day one, even before they happened, I. I saw them coming. I lived in San Francisco at the time. San Francisco was locked down for 19 months. Schools were closed 19 months. Playgrounds were cold out. Outdoor playgrounds were closed 10 months and long. After adults got to do everything, kids were locked at home on screens. And it lasted twice as long, three times as long in blue states, places like San Francisco. And they did it proudly. And the hypocrisy was. I. I'll. I'll never vote for a Democrat again.

[Podcast Host]

Wow. It was that traumatic.

[Jennifer]

Yeah. If you lived in California under Gavin Newsom during COVID I did for five months. Is back. During COVID Yeah.

[Podcast Host]

I moved to LA during COVID Lasted five months, ended my lease early, and drove to Vegas.

[Jennifer]

When did you get there?

[Podcast Host]

Probably, like, right when Covid started.

[Jennifer]

Like March or.

[Podcast Host]

Yeah, March. April. Ish. Yeah.

[Jennifer]

And then you got here, and it was normal.

[Podcast Host]

Got here and the casinos were just starting to open within, like, six months. Yeah.

[Jennifer]

Okay.

[Podcast Host]

Yeah.

[Jennifer]

What was done to children, I can't forgive it.

[Podcast Host]

Yeah. Yeah. They made all the kids get vaccines to go to school.

[Jennifer]

They just kept the schools closed forever. I mean, people. Adults could go to bars. In the spring of 21 in San Francisco, packed bars and nightclubs, strip clubs. My son couldn't go to high school. English class.

[Podcast Host]

Yeah. All the schools were virtual.

[Jennifer]

I mean, it's. It's. It's criminal. And the Democrats wore it as a badge of honor. You know, they felt they were really virtuous for doing this, for ruining kids. Meanwhile, in San Francisco and a lot of the blue states that kept stuff closed long, the private schools opened. So all the fancy elite people sending their kids to $70,000 a year private schools were yelling at everybody else to stay home and stay safe.

[Podcast Host]

Yeah.

[Jennifer]

My kids are in public school.

[Podcast Host]

I don't think I'll send my kids to public school.

[Jennifer]

I can understand that.

[Podcast Host]

Yeah. These days, at least, I think when you went, it was normal. When I went, it was kind of normal. Like, there's definitely some weird agendas. But now it's. Now it's unacceptable.

[Jennifer]

Yeah, it's tough. I have two kids in public school now.

[Podcast Host]

I guess it depends where you're at, too. Yeah, you're in.

[Jennifer]

I'm in Denver pretty bad. But they go to a charter school that's Spanish language. It's a little bit of a hack.

[Podcast Host]

Okay, so that's not a public school, is it?

[Jennifer]

It is public.

[Podcast Host]

Oh, it is. But it's all in Spanish. Mm. Interesting. Why do you choose that angle?

[Jennifer]

I guess we wanted them to be bilingual and. Yeah, they speak Spanish. Wow.

[Podcast Host]

I gotta look into that route because I was considering homeschooling. Private school. I never heard of a different language school.

[Jennifer]

Yeah, I mean, this one we'll See how it goes. I mean, they're pretty young, so. Yeah, but we like it for now.

[Podcast Host]

Yeah. I'm sure there's some still good public schools, but I think a majority of them.

[Jennifer]

I think that's fair. But homeschooling's rough.

[Podcast Host]

It'd be rough if you're not a hands on. If you're just like absent from the house. Yeah.

[Jennifer]

I mean, if both parents work, it's hard. I don't know how you do it. I mean, I guess if one parents home.

[Podcast Host]

Yeah. Yeah. That's how I'm planning on living. I know that's tough for most families these days. Yeah, that's my plan for now. But these days it's tough to afford a house off one income.

[Jennifer]

It is, yeah.

[Podcast Host]

I feel for people, for sure.

[Jennifer]

Yeah.

[Podcast Host]

It's not easy. Especially with AI about to wipe out.

[Jennifer]

A ton of jobs, all that. Yep, it's not easy. Anyway, Covid turned me. I'll never vote Democrat again. Wow. I don't think. And then, of course, once you realize that there are hypocrites about everything. I mean, it's not just keeping the world closed and locking everybody at home, which is. I mean, none of it was legislated. It was just by decree. You can't leave the house. You can't go more than three blocks outside of your house radius. They were stopping people on the street, asking them where they were going. You can't go to the beach. You can't take your kids to the playground. But then they censored anyone who spoke out. You know, my husband and I were trying to do open the schools rallies. Every time we put a post up on social media, it would be taken down. The censor. Everything the Democrats said they stood for, they betrayed all of their own stated values.

[Podcast Host]

Yeah, yeah. This censorship was nuts.

[Jennifer]

The censorship. Yeah.

[Podcast Host]

You can't even say the word vaccine for like two, three years. The whole video would get taken down.

[Jennifer]

It's. Yeah, it's true.

[Podcast Host]

It was that bad.

[Jennifer]

Yeah, it was bad. And it wasn't just the vaccines. If you were fighting for open schools, you were put on watch lists.

[Podcast Host]

That's crazy.

[Jennifer]

Moms, like suburban moms just going to school board meetings. Archels.

[Podcast Host]

Yeah. I've had gym owners on the show and the gyms were shut down and if they opened them, they would get fined a thousand bucks a day.

[Jennifer]

Yeah. There was a yoga studio near us that refused to shut and he just boarded up all the windows. He, I think, generated like a million dollars in fines. I don't know what Happened. There's some kind of lawsuit. It's insane. It was also everything. It. Everything that was done harmed the poorest and the most vulnerable the most. It was all the rich people that could handle it. They could stay at home and order Uber and they had gyms in their house and they had yards for their kids, and they were pretending it was for the vulnerable, but it wasn't. It was only for them.

[Podcast Host]

The rich got way richer. I think there's some stat on this, like, the top 1%, like, got the most rich they've ever gotten.

[Jennifer]

Yeah.

[Podcast Host]

Yeah.

[Jennifer]

It was a disgusting time. And I would argue, led by the Democrats. I know Trump was president in the beginning, but the Democrats took it all the way through. I mean, they had. There were restrictions in democratic states through 2022. And then as soon as Trump said, open the schools, he said, open the schools in June 2020, the red states were all open already. Well, that was the end of that. The blue states were never going to open them just to do the opposite of what he said.

[Podcast Host]

Yeah. And it was already proven that. I think Zuckerberg said, like, Biden was calling Facebook to censor stuff.

[Jennifer]

Oh, yeah.

[Podcast Host]

So that was crazy.

[Jennifer]

Well, then we know it at Twitter, before Elon took over, that Jack Dorsey and that team was. I mean, they were in direct communication with government officials.

[Podcast Host]

Yeah.

[Jennifer]

To take stuff down. My husband was kicked off for a year.

[Podcast Host]

Cheese. You think they'll ever try something like that again?

[Jennifer]

Yeah.

[Podcast Host]

That's scary.

[Jennifer]

Don't you?

[Podcast Host]

I don't think it'd work again, though. I think. Yeah, it's not out of the cards.

[Jennifer]

I think it might not. I think. Well, that's the other thing that was so disappointing and upsetting about San Francisco and Democrats is they all just cheered it on. No one resisted. Who resisted? No one.

[Podcast Host]

Everyone was scared.

[Jennifer]

They were calling in on their neighbors. They were. I mean, you. They had a snitch line in San Francisco.

[Podcast Host]

That's crazy.

[Jennifer]

There was a snitch line. When they finally let us go out of the house, it wasn't until June 2020, so we were locked inside for a few months. They said, you can go out and you can go to the park, but you have to only. It has to just be your family. You can't mix outside. So I was out. I have four kids. I was at the park with my family, eating and whatever. Two of my kids are mixed race, two are not. So some crazy lady is off to the side thinking, that's not one family. So she called the police on us and we had to prove that we all live together.

[Podcast Host]

That's insanity. I can't believe that.

[Jennifer]

It's true.

[Podcast Host]

Wow. Crazy times. And that was only five years ago.

[Jennifer]

That's the left in San Francisco. So I think you're right. I think there's a lot more people that would resist next time. I don't know if there's enough. And I also think if they scared people in the same way, you're going to die if you leave the house.

[Podcast Host]

Yeah.

[Jennifer]

People. People will give up their freedom for a sense of safety. I think.

[Podcast Host]

Yeah. I don't think it'll be enough on a national and global level, but I think if you pick the right community.

[Jennifer]

I think you're right.

[Podcast Host]

Your local.

[Jennifer]

I agree. It was you.

[Podcast Host]

Yeah. So that's the importance of community.

[Jennifer]

Yeah. I might be. And I have to move.

[Podcast Host]

You might have to get out of Denver. It's very liberal over there. I'm surprised you picked Denver.

[Jennifer]

Did you know. Did you know there's a law in Denver now that makes misgendering a crime? It's a criminal act.

[Podcast Host]

And you have this company out there.

[Jennifer]

We're suing the state.

[Podcast Host]

Oh, you are?

[Jennifer]

Yeah.

[Podcast Host]

So what happens if you do that? It's like you literally get hit with a felony.

[Jennifer]

You get. You can get fined. You can possibly do jail time. Like if I was doing a. Like we do in person shops, sometimes like fabric shops. And if some man who thinks he's a woman came in to provoke me and I said, sir, can I help you? He could press charges.

[Podcast Host]

Wow. For emotional distress or something.

[Jennifer]

It's a crime.

[Podcast Host]

That is nuts. Has someone tried, like, doing that to you yet?

[Jennifer]

Not yet.

[Podcast Host]

Wow.

[Jennifer]

But even the way the law is written, even if you misgender in advertising, that is also a criminal and discriminatory act. The premise is everybody deserves to be sort of treated in a certain way in public. So that the advertising clause, to my mind, is directed at us.

[Podcast Host]

Yeah.

[Jennifer]

Because we misgender all the time. Misgender. I think correctly. Gender all the time in advertising and pr. Because I use biologically correct pronouns.

[Podcast Host]

Do you get transgender people messaging you all the time?

[Jennifer]

Yeah.

[Podcast Host]

Do you even respond or. No.

[Jennifer]

No. I mean, I. I have one very crazy one that one day I woke up and I had. I think There were, like 300 messages on my sub stack and there were another 50 emails, and they were all very violent.

[Podcast Host]

Wow. And all different wording in each email.

[Jennifer]

But, like, kind. Yes. But you could tell it was the same person.

[Podcast Host]

I took some time on those.

[Jennifer]

I. I don't know how they did it. I mean, they sound like the rantings of a deranged lunatic. Like, it's like when. Yeah, it was a little scary. I mean, threatening to kill my employees. Kill our children.

[Podcast Host]

My gosh.

[Jennifer]

Slit their throats. If you saw. You know, it's like those weird ransom notes in movies, you know, with some caps and it's like that.

[Podcast Host]

Yeah, but you're only taking the stance when it comes to sports. It's not like you hate them.

[Jennifer]

I don't hate anyone.

[Podcast Host]

Yeah. It's like you just don't want men and women's sports.

[Jennifer]

I don't, but I think it's important to use proper pronouns. I think it's a mistake to call Will Thomas, Leah Thomas a she. Once you grant that if you say this person is a woman because they think they are, then how do you say you can't come into our sports and spaces?

[Podcast Host]

Yeah.

[Jennifer]

It's just a matter of basic reality. You have to deal in reality.

[Podcast Host]

Yeah.

[Jennifer]

You can dress how you want. I don't care. But we deserve privacy.

[Podcast Host]

Yeah. I think the pronoun stuff, it's. It's not as big as it used to be. Right. I feel like it used to be.

[Jennifer]

People are dropping the pronouns.

[Podcast Host]

Yeah, I know. Certain social media platforms don't use it anymore.

[Jennifer]

Yeah, they're dropping it. But did you see. Okay, there was the terrible shooting yesterday.

[Podcast Host]

Yeah.

[Jennifer]

So have you seen the headlines in the paper? So it came out, the person identified as female.

[Podcast Host]

Right.

[Jennifer]

Have you been following?

[Podcast Host]

I saw that. Yeah.

[Jennifer]

Yeah. So that all the newscasters, they're so confused. They don't want to know what to do. But as of today, most of the headlines say she.

[Podcast Host]

They don't say trans.

[Jennifer]

No.

[Podcast Host]

Huh. That's interesting. Right? They would exclude that word when it was clearly that case.

[Jennifer]

Yeah. Yeah. She has a full. Like a beard.

[Podcast Host]

Yeah.

[Jennifer]

And there's a lot in the manifesto and the rantings about becoming a she. And then there's part that says he regrets it. The whole thing is crazy. But why anyone is concerned about using the correct pronoun, this person murdered two children.

[Podcast Host]

Yeah.

[Jennifer]

I don't really think you get to decide what people call you then.

[Podcast Host]

Yeah. That was so traumatic for those families involved. Sorry to hear that.

[Jennifer]

And I think there's 17 that are still in the hospital, but. Yeah. So it's still. It's still a thing. I think it's not expected or required in the same way.

[Podcast Host]

No.

[Jennifer]

That we all announce our pronouns, but in the media, they still. It's Very important that you respect pronouns.

[Podcast Host]

Yeah. Because I guess from their point of view, they could probably get sued. Right. If they miss gender.

[Jennifer]

I don't know. Can they? I think style guy in Colorado. Exactly.

[Podcast Host]

I don't know how many other states.

[Jennifer]

Have that law, but I don't think any.

[Podcast Host]

Oh, Colorado's only one.

[Jennifer]

Wow. We're leading the gym.

[Podcast Host]

New leadership over there.

[Jennifer]

Yeah, we do. We do. Yeah. Jared Polis is our governor and he's pretty. You guys have a. What? Who's your governor here?

[Podcast Host]

Is it. I know it used to be Lombardi or something. I don't pay too much attention. We're like a swing state, though.

[Jennifer]

Yeah.

[Podcast Host]

I think we like tribe. Yeah. We're purple because everyone from Cali's coming.

[Jennifer]

Yeah. We're very blue now. Colorado used to be a swing state. It used to be purple. And in the last four years, it's.

[Podcast Host]

Totally blue because everyone from California came.

[Jennifer]

I guess so.

[Podcast Host]

Yeah. Thanks my spreading.

[Jennifer]

They're all leaving for Texas. Colorado, Vegas.

[Podcast Host]

Yeah. Austin is turning blue now.

[Jennifer]

Yeah.

[Podcast Host]

Crazy.

[Jennifer]

See, I did not bring my voting habits with me to Colorado.

[Podcast Host]

I think that's.

[Jennifer]

I left them behind.

[Podcast Host]

That's probably the exception, though. I feel like most people bring it.

[Jennifer]

With them, I guess. But why would you do. Why would you flee to just do the same thing and get the same thing?

[Podcast Host]

Yeah, that's my thought process with it. But, yeah, it looks like Newsom's going to make a run for it in 28, now that he's leading the polls.

[Jennifer]

Nightmare.

[Podcast Host]

Yeah. If that happens, he can't win. He might win the Democratic vote.

[Jennifer]

I hope he could be the Democrat candidate. I don't think he could win national.

[Podcast Host]

I hope Vance or whoever's running can.

[Jennifer]

Don't you think? I think the country looks at California as a total disaster lately.

[Podcast Host]

Yeah. They've handled a lot of things poorly. Right.

[Jennifer]

And he's been in a leadership position in California for, like, almost 30 years. I mean, he was the mayor in San Francisco for a time when I was there.

[Podcast Host]

How do you do as mayor?

[Jennifer]

Terrible.

[Podcast Host]

Was it a big homeless issue back then, too?

[Jennifer]

Yeah. And it's like three times as bad now.

[Podcast Host]

Yeah.

[Jennifer]

Just keeps getting worse.

[Podcast Host]

I can't believe all the money they got to fix homelessness went away. Did you see that?

[Jennifer]

No.

[Podcast Host]

California got like 5 billion or something to fix homelessness.

[Jennifer]

And what happened? No one knows. Yeah. I can believe it.

[Podcast Host]

Yeah.

[Sponsor Announcer]

No one knows where it went.

[Podcast Host]

I can believe actually, the homeless numbers went up.

[Jennifer]

They've been going up for 30 years. Gavin Newsome, when He ran with. He. That he. When he ran for mayor, he was going to end homelessness.

[Podcast Host]

Yeah. I mean, it's so expensive out there. How can you afford it?

[Jennifer]

It's so bad there. Have you been.

[Podcast Host]

Every time I go to la, I get robbed. My car got broken into last time. Someone was stalking me. The time before that, like, I'm done going there.

[Jennifer]

My last six weeks in San Francisco, my car was broken into four times. Not the side window, the back window. Like the one that's really, really expensive.

[Podcast Host]

It costs a lot of folks.

[Jennifer]

And I leave the doors. I didn't lock the car because I just. There was nothing in it. You know, you want to just let people. So they don't break, but it's just vandalism.

[Podcast Host]

Did you have a backpack in the back seat?

[Jennifer]

No, I never left anything in the back.

[Sponsor Announcer]

Really?

[Podcast Host]

Because usually they look for a backpack or something.

[Jennifer]

Not anymore.

[Podcast Host]

Yeah, I made a mistake.

[Jennifer]

Do it for the vandalizing. It's just sport.

[Podcast Host]

That's crazy. They're just practicing on your car.

[Jennifer]

Yeah. There's video of people just going, like, car to car, smashing the windows. Not even going in the car to take anything.

[Podcast Host]

That's crazy. Yeah. There's a little key thing you have these days. It's super small. You could just break a window in like two seconds.

[Jennifer]

Yeah, that's nuts. It's a totally. It's completely unlivable.

[Podcast Host]

Do you see it ever healing, San Francisco back to where it used to be when you were growing up?

[Jennifer]

No, that's crazy.

[Podcast Host]

I don't even know what it would take to do that.

[Jennifer]

They have a new mayor. He's trying. I don't think he can do it.

[Podcast Host]

They're too deep.

[Jennifer]

Yeah, they really fucked themselves during COVID The entire downtown is destroyed. So you can't have a thriving city with no downtown. But the offices were closed so long. I mean, the new mayor of San Francisco just now, this year, told city workers they had to go back to the office. They've been working at home for five years and they're all pissed off. They have to go back at the office, back to the office. So that hollowed out the downtown, which means all the restaurants closed. And then the crime got so bad because it was empty that all the retailers started leaving. So 50% of the storefronts closed downtown, like the big fancy retailers ne and market, like all the fancy places. And the offices are still at half capacity. So you can't have a city with no downtown. I mean, you can't. It's not a City it is. They can't fix it.

[Podcast Host]

Yeah, I heard the food's not as good anymore. For me, that's the main reason I travel.

[Jennifer]

That's the best. That's the best thing about San Francisco. But yeah, a lot of the restaurants closed. They kept everything closed too long. And then it just died. And people left. 7% of the population left between 20 and 21. And it was all this sort of people with money.

[Podcast Host]

It's really high. I'll say. New York City doesn't even feel like the same.

[Jennifer]

I agree.

[Podcast Host]

Yeah. I just was there two weeks ago and it's still a lot of closed locations.

[Jennifer]

I agree with you.

[Podcast Host]

And the energy is not the same.

[Jennifer]

I agree. I was there too. It's still way better than San Francisco, but it's not the same.

[Podcast Host]

Yeah. And look at the coincidence of leadership there.

[Jennifer]

I mean, these cities, they. They fucked themselves and people left. And it just changed the. It changed everything forever. It changed the tenor of the city. In San Francisco, there were homeless encampments that were the size right in front of City Hall. It was the size of a couple football fields. Just open air drug use right there. Right. I mean, that's not a civilized place for people to live.

[Podcast Host]

I just went to San Diego last year. Five star hotel downtown. I did not feel safe. Every time I walked outside, there was like homeless people shooting up.

[Jennifer]

Yeah.

[Podcast Host]

I was like, oh my God.

[Jennifer]

I had a pretty high tolerance for it, having lived in San Francisco since 1992 and growing up there. But this was. This was intolerable. You can't. I mean, I caught. In the last few months I was there, I called the police three times thinking somebody was dead on the street, just walking my daughter to the playground.

[Podcast Host]

And they probably didn't come.

[Jennifer]

They were. Well, I called him. I didn't stay. I'll admit I tried to do the right thing, but I didn't necessarily. I mean, I couldn't answer any questions. But it was drugs. I mean, they were passed out on the ground. Their kit was right there. You know what it is. But this isn't a residential neighborhood. I'm walking the playground with my daughter. You can't raise kids like that.

[Podcast Host]

That's awful. That's probably in a multi million dollar neighborhood too.

[Jennifer]

They're all multi million dollars.

[Podcast Host]

Yeah.

[Jennifer]

Out there. I mean, honestly, in San Francisco. So it's just, it's uncivilized. It's inhospitable. I don't know how anyone could live there. It's gonna end up being very, very rich people who Live in like, gated communities who never encounter that. And homeless people.

[Podcast Host]

Yeah. So the no middle class, basically.

[Jennifer]

Yeah.

[Podcast Host]

Yeah. I think that's the future of the US I grew up middle class. I think it's going to be wiped by the time I'm having kids.

[Jennifer]

Yeah. Certainly all the major cities are almost there already.

[Podcast Host]

Yeah. I mean, even Vegas used to get good value out here and now it's getting kind of questionable, you know?

[Jennifer]

Yeah. It's pretty brutal.

[Podcast Host]

Yeah. Any major city, it's really hard to live in a decent spot these days.

[Jennifer]

Yeah. There is de. Urbanization happening for sure. You can still have a decent life in a place like Oklahoma City.

[Podcast Host]

Yeah. But with all the illegals that got in, it's just like there's not enough housing, you know?

[Jennifer]

Yeah.

[Podcast Host]

20 million people.

[Jennifer]

Yes. They're trying to build housing in San Francisco, but they make it so hard. The Democrats have these regulations that you can. It's the same in L. A. Yep. You just can't build the housing.

[Podcast Host]

You got to wait a year, I think, to build.

[Jennifer]

On average, I think it's longer.

[Podcast Host]

18 months.

[Jennifer]

It's a long time.

[Podcast Host]

Which by the time you wait that long, you're losing money.

[Jennifer]

There was a famous story in San Francisco because they have these public toilets on Market street, and I think one toilet cost a million dollars to build.

[Podcast Host]

What?

[Jennifer]

Because of all the city, like, ridiculous regulation and stuff. And some guy was like, I could. Some contractor was like, I could build you a toilet for like $20,000 million dollars for a million dollar toilet. And they're downtown, so basically they just get used for homeless people to shoot up in.

[Podcast Host]

Wow. It's terrible.

[Jennifer]

It's not. It's not a good place to live.

[Podcast Host]

Well, this was an interesting episode. I didn't mean to get so dark on people, but.

[Jennifer]

Sorry. We could talk about something more cheerful if you want.

[Podcast Host]

Yeah.

[Jennifer]

And, well, what.

[Podcast Host]

What's been brightening your day lately?

[Jennifer]

I guess I am. That's a good, good question. Well, my four children always brighten my day, but I think everybody should have more children. More kids is more love. I think I can. I guess I feel hopeful. I feel like we're making progress on the issue I care about, which is keeping women's sports and spaces for women. I mean, I care about other things, but I definitely care about that. But I think we shouldn't be complacent because it's still happening everywhere and people do it now just to push back on Trump.

[Podcast Host]

Yeah. Is this a worldwide issue or is this mainly us?

[Jennifer]

It's Worldwide.

[Podcast Host]

It's worldwide, yeah. Wow.

[Jennifer]

It's worldwide. Well, you saw at the Olympics last summer, there was two men, two males that won gold in the boxing ring.

[Podcast Host]

Yeah, gold and silver. Right.

[Jennifer]

But. So here's a good development. World Boxing, there's a new organization leading boxing now. They have announced that they are going to test for sex.

[Podcast Host]

Really?

[Jennifer]

Which they should.

[Podcast Host]

How do they test that?

[Jennifer]

It's a cheek swap.

[Podcast Host]

And it tells you if you're a guy or a girl.

[Jennifer]

Yeah.

[Podcast Host]

Wow.

[Jennifer]

It's much less invasive than drug testing, which they do. And drug testing you have to do at every competition, obviously, because you can stop and start the sex test you get once at the beginning of your athletic career, and it's done. So World Boxing has announced that they will test for sex. So Imani Khalif, who's the male who won, has said he's refusing.

[Podcast Host]

Yeah. That's. However he makes a living. She. She makes a living. Or wait, He. He. Right. He makes a living.

[Jennifer]

He has refused. He thinks he's. He's saying it's too invasive. It's an invasion of privacy.

[Podcast Host]

A cheek swab is too invasive.

[Jennifer]

Y. You can even do it. Not a swab. You could just spit in a cup.

[Podcast Host]

Yeah, that's too invasive for. For that person.

[Jennifer]

It's horrible.

[Podcast Host]

That's crazy.

[Jennifer]

He will not be boxing until they eliminate the test.

[Podcast Host]

Is that the Olympics, or is that a different league?

[Jennifer]

Well, it's the Olympic movement, so. Yeah. So World Boxing, there's, like individual sport governing bodies, so only boxing and track and field have said they are going to test for sex.

[Podcast Host]

So you think in the 28 Olympics in LA that we could potentially see some males in female sports, or you think by then it'll be banned?

[Jennifer]

Well, the US Olympic Committee has said no men in women's sport. The International. It's such a boring, complicated landscape. But the International Olympic Committee has not said that, so we'll see.

[Podcast Host]

We got to look at who funds them. You always follow the money is what I tell people.

[Jennifer]

Yeah. You know, it's true. There's a new head of the ioc, the International Olympic Committee. She says she cares about protecting women's sports. She's as of yet done nothing.

[Podcast Host]

That's not good.

[Jennifer]

No, they're all afraid. They're such cowards.

[Podcast Host]

It's easy to talk, too. You know what I mean? It's easy to talk. A big game and then push comes to shove.

[Jennifer]

Well, you remember just a few months ago, Gavin Newsom, when he was talking with Charlie Kirk, said, I think it's Deeply unfair for males to compete in girls sports.

[Podcast Host]

Yeah. And then he did nothing.

[Jennifer]

No. Then he sued the federal government to allow him to continue letting boys to compete in girls sports in California.

[Sponsor Announcer]

I wonder if that was because he.

[Podcast Host]

Hates Trump or if he actually believes in it, though.

[Jennifer]

He doesn't believe in anything.

[Podcast Host]

That's the vibe I get.

[Jennifer]

I think he's so slimy.

[Podcast Host]

He'll take whatever side that he thinks is popular, Right?

[Jennifer]

Yeah. And he's afraid of the. The loud, bullying, activist minority. The gender ideologues. Yeah, he's afraid of them. Even though the majority of his state. 70% of the people in California support Trump's executive order on this.

[Podcast Host]

Really?

[Jennifer]

70%. 80% nationally. But most people are silent.

[Podcast Host]

70.

[Jennifer]

Because you get. You get dragged for saying something so simple as men can't become women.

[Podcast Host]

For real. I. For me, it's like, that's so common sense.

[Jennifer]

I. I mean, I've said I've taken some stands before, and I've suffered the consequences. This is madness.

[Podcast Host]

This is the most controversial stance you've done.

[Jennifer]

The threat. No, I mean, Covid probably was more.

[Podcast Host]

Yeah.

[Jennifer]

Saying open the schools and don't lock down in March of 2020. But the. The violent threats directed at me for this are way more intense.

[Podcast Host]

Well, that's because it's a mental health issue.

[Jennifer]

I think that's a good point.

[Podcast Host]

Everyone I've met that's, like, done the procedure, they don't seem like they have a good head on their shoulders. Also because they're on a ton of drugs and stuff, too.

[Jennifer]

I don't know how anybody could think that we could pump people full of wrong sex hormones and that. That wouldn't have any sort of impact on their mental state and, well, being.

[Podcast Host]

The only one I had a really good conversation with was Blaire White. If you know her.

[Jennifer]

Her.

[Podcast Host]

Him. I always. Her. Right.

[Jennifer]

Well, him.

[Podcast Host]

Him.

[Jennifer]

Wow. Larry White started as a man, is still a man.

[Podcast Host]

So, yeah, I thought he was pretty reasonable, but that's about it. I can't think of anyone else. Yeah, you probably talked to hundreds of them at this point.

[Jennifer]

Yeah. I mean, I don't care how reasonable it is. It's like, I sort of feel like the quote, unquote, reasonable ones give cover to the 90%. That's completely unreasonable.

[Podcast Host]

Okay.

[Jennifer]

It's all mental illness.

[Podcast Host]

I think most of it is. Yeah. If not all.

[Jennifer]

I mean, do you really believe there's such a thing as being born in the wrong body? I don't believe it.

[Podcast Host]

Maybe being gay, but wrong body is Tough.

[Jennifer]

Yeah. There's no such thing. There's no evidence that someone could be born in the wrong body. I mean, I think the, you know, there are some people who present as female that were born male that will say, I have a psychological disorder. I feel more comfortable presenting this way.

[Podcast Host]

Yeah.

[Jennifer]

Fine. That doesn't mean I need to let.

[Podcast Host]

Yeah.

[Jennifer]

Men into women's locker rooms.

[Podcast Host]

I missed the innocent days when I was growing up with, like, Tom girls and we thought tomboys or whatever, and we thought that was cool.

[Jennifer]

Well, that's what's so up about this whole thing is it's so retrograde in terms of gender stereotypes. Because when children are, you know, now in the culture, in the public schools, this is a good reason for you not to send your kid to public schools. There's all of this ideology taught, and if a little boy presents as feminine and he likes dolls and he has feminine characteristics and mannerisms, he will be asked, do you think you're a girl? I mean, I grew up thinking, wanting a broader definition of what you could be if you were a girl. I was a tomboy. I'm very competitive. I'm ambitious. Those are characteristics that are sort of considered more male.

[Podcast Host]

Yeah.

[Jennifer]

I feel like today I would be sort of pushed in that direction 100%. So it definitely targets the gay kids.

[Podcast Host]

Yeah. Yeah. It makes the gay kids confused. Right?

[Jennifer]

Really? I mean, a lot of the older. I mean, I'm Gen X. The older gay people. I know the gay men are. They say they're so grateful they didn't. They're not growing up now because they were feminine little boys and they would have been sort of ushered down this path and told they were trans 100%. And some states medicalized.

[Podcast Host]

Yeah. And some states will even pay for the surgery, right? California.

[Jennifer]

Yeah. Yeah. Well, they. They're. They are trans sanctuary cities. That's what they call themselves, you know, in New York. If Mamdani wins, he wants to make New York City a sanctuary city for trans and pay for all. You could go there. Underage people.

[Podcast Host]

Yeah.

[Jennifer]

And he would pay for the hormones and the surgery.

[Podcast Host]

That's disgusting. And it looks like he's going to win, too.

[Jennifer]

I think he is going to win.

[Podcast Host]

Yeah. It's looking like he's going to win that. That is disgusting. New York City is going to be a shit show if that happens.

[Jennifer]

It's going to be a shit. It's going to be such a shit show in so many ways. That city. Maybe that's what has to happen.

[Podcast Host]

That's such a shame. Because growing up in Jersey, I really, like, used to look up to New York City.

[Jennifer]

I got inspired, went there all the time. And you were in North Jersey, so. Yeah, it. Although there is a part of me that's like, he's not going to get any of that stuff done that he's saying, hopefully not. He's not going to get free buses and free grocery stores or public. What are the grocery stores?

[Podcast Host]

Yeah, you walk in and take whatever you want and leave, basically.

[Jennifer]

So I feel like he can't get it done either.

[Podcast Host]

Yeah. Because the mayor really doesn't have too much power, I guess.

[Jennifer]

No, I mean, he should be in charge of sanitation, public transportation.

[Podcast Host]

Yeah. Hopefully you can make that better.

[Jennifer]

Public schools.

[Podcast Host]

Right now it costs 50 bucks just to go to New York with all the tolls and everything.

[Jennifer]

It's insane. Well, they did all that surge pricing.

[Podcast Host]

Yeah.

[Jennifer]

Yeah. I don't think he's very focused on the sanitation and public transportation improvement or safety. I mean, they are in charge of that.

[Podcast Host]

Don't see too many safety things going on there.

[Jennifer]

No, he wants to defund. He's a defund the police guy.

[Podcast Host]

Are you serious?

[Jennifer]

Yeah.

[Podcast Host]

Oh, my God. That's crazy. How is this guy even winning?

[Jennifer]

He wants more social workers. It's all of the. It's all of the, like, upper class young people. He did not win in the working class boroughs, but the upper class people, the elite, educated people, feel they know what's better for those people. He didn't win in Staten island and the Bronx. Those are the two more working class boroughs.

[Podcast Host]

That's interesting.

[Jennifer]

Everywhere else he won, especially with young people.

[Podcast Host]

That is interesting. He did. You got to give it to him. Did a really good social media campaign.

[Jennifer]

Everybody says it. Yeah. I have two kids that live there. They said they like him.

[Podcast Host]

I mean, I see him every day and I live in Vegas. Like, he just went nationwide with it. I feel like he caused a ruckus.

[Jennifer]

Oh, you do see it every day, just on social.

[Podcast Host]

Indeed.

[Jennifer]

Yeah, I guess I do, too.

[Podcast Host]

Exactly right. You don't really see that with mayor races usually, no matter what city.

[Jennifer]

No. Although I guess it's New York.

[Podcast Host]

I guess New York is a bigger market. But even so, I never saw any New York mayor stuff until him, to be honest.

[Jennifer]

Yeah. I was just thinking back during COVID you had Cuomo do it. He wasn't the mayor, he was the governor. But do you remember he was doing those daily briefings? Yeah, he did a briefing every day. Remember there were people wanting him to run for president.

[Podcast Host]

Yeah.

[Jennifer]

The cuomosexuals.

[Podcast Host]

Yep. That fell off quick.

[Jennifer]

Yeah, well, all that sexual harassment and killing of old people. Yeah. Yeah, he didn't really retain. He. Although he. He's. He ran, too, Mom. Donnie beat him.

[Podcast Host]

Yeah, pretty easily too.

[Jennifer]

Handily.

[Podcast Host]

Yeah. Well, Jennifer, this has been great. We'll link your. Your clothing line in the video. Anything else you want to close off with?

[Jennifer]

I don't think so.

[Podcast Host]

Cool. Well, thanks for coming. We'll link your socials as well. And I'll see you at America Fest.

[Jennifer]

Yeah, I'll be there. We'll be there with a booth.

[Podcast Host]

Awesome. See you guys. Peace.

[Sponsor Announcer]

I hope you guys are enjoying the show. Please don't forget to like and subscribe.

[Podcast Host]

It helps the show a lot with the algorithm. Thank you.