From Bankruptcy to $1.3 Billion: Peter's Bold Journey | Peter Khoury DSH #1154

Summary

Digital Social Hour – Episode #1154: From Bankruptcy to $1.3 Billion: Peter's Bold Journey

Host: Sean Kelly
Guest: Peter Khoury
Release Date: February 1, 2025

---

Introduction

In this compelling episode of Digital Social Hour, host Sean Kelly sits down with Australian entrepreneur Peter Khoury to delve into his extraordinary journey from the brink of bankruptcy to spearheading a $1.3 billion enterprise. The conversation navigates through Peter's early struggles, strategic business scaling, insights on entrepreneurship, and his innovative approach to philanthropy with the Give Kindly initiative.

---

Early Struggles and the Brink of Bankruptcy

Peter opens up about a tumultuous period in his life that nearly led to financial ruin. [00:00], he recounts facing bankruptcy after a series of business setbacks, including a collapsing property market and unreliable investments.

Peter (A): "We went from being super wealthy to super broke overnight. It was rock bottom."

Peter shares a poignant moment from December 22, 2018, when desperation drove him to reach out on social media for help, resulting in a surge of inquiries that ultimately saved his business.

Peter (A): "On December 22nd, we started from those leads. I converted a sale on December 25th."

This period was marked by intense pressure and uncertainty, but it also ignited the spark that would lead to his remarkable comeback.

---

Scaling the Business: From R2B Group to $1.3 Billion

Peter details the evolution of his company, R2B Group, which focuses on helping individuals purchase property deposits in Australia—a market notoriously difficult due to high costs and rapid price appreciation.

Peter (A): "The housing market's always been growing. It's not something you can time; the gold-coat posts keep moving."

Initially operating with nine different subsidiaries, R2B Group provided a comprehensive service encompassing finance, real estate, construction, and legal services. This integrated approach allowed Peter's company to scale efficiently by reinvesting profits and attracting external capital.

A pivotal moment came when Peter secured a debt warehouse facility, transforming his operations dramatically:

Peter (A): "We've come back to the table now with $1.3 billion. Starting February next year, we've got $1.3 billion to put out, which is 1.3 billion in sales."

Despite previous rejections from banks ([13:45]), persistence paid off, propelling R2B Group into a new league with ambitious sales targets. Peter attributes this success to a dedicated team and strategic foresight.

Peter (A): "It's going to be a really amazing next few months. I'm pumped. It's a really good time."

---

Entrepreneurship Insights: Navigating Challenges and Building Resilience

Throughout the discussion, Peter emphasizes the importance of resilience, recognizing personal strengths and weaknesses, and the critical role of a strong team in achieving business success.

Peter (A): "A vision without execution is just the dream. So I need my detail guy around."

He reflects on the entrepreneurial mindset required to navigate through financial crises, highlighting the necessity of adapting quickly and maintaining a focus on long-term goals despite immediate setbacks.

Peter (A): "When your back's against the wall, you find ways. You can't even think of."

Peter also touches on the cultural differences between Australian and American business environments, noting the more robust investment culture in the U.S. that contrasts with Australia's more conservative approach.

Peter (A): "Australia's investment culture is very different to the US one. Companies don't invest in a company until you're profitable, so it almost defeats the purpose."

---

Philanthropy and Social Entrepreneurship: The Birth of Give Kindly

A significant portion of the conversation centers around Peter's passion for giving back through his initiative, Give Kindly. This platform aims to revolutionize philanthropy by intertwining it with everyday consumer behavior, allowing individuals to contribute to charities effortlessly through their purchases.

Peter (A): "The whole purpose behind Give Kindly is not just giving, but giving people the opportunity to give."

Give Kindly operates within the e-commerce sphere, initially focusing on women's clothing and accessories. A percentage of each sale is directed towards a charity of the customer's choice, fostering a direct and personal connection between consumers and charitable causes.

Peter (A): "There's an E-commerce market out there, people buy products that they want anyway. A percentage of each of those items from our profit goes towards a charity of your choice."

Peter critiques the traditional charity model for its lack of sustainability and accountability, advocating for a system where charities receive recurring revenue, enabling them to focus solely on their missions without the constant need for fundraising.

Peter (A): "Charities have to spend and then have to beg for it again. Give Kindly intends to develop recurring revenues for charities so they can do what they do best."

He envisions a future where entrepreneurial ventures like Give Kindly create a ripple effect, inspiring others to integrate social causes into their business models, thereby fostering a culture of giving intertwined with profitability.

Peter (A): "My ultimate vision is to breed a culture of giving and intertwine it with entrepreneurialism."

---

Reflection on Business Culture: Australia vs. United States

Peter provides insightful commentary on the broader business landscapes of Australia and the United States. He highlights Australia's smaller market size and more stringent investment environment, contrasting it with the U.S.'s expansive market and vibrant investment ecosystem.

Peter (A): "Australia is a very much a sporting country. We take it very seriously... Compared to the U.S., we have a small population but compete with larger markets."

He acknowledges the challenges Australian entrepreneurs face in securing investment compared to their American counterparts, attributing part of his success to leveraging the more aggressive investment strategies prevalent in the U.S.

Peter (A): "The States have a really good investment culture with pre-seed, seed, and funding rounds that don't exist in Australia unless you're well-connected."

---

Personal Reflections and Future Aspirations

Towards the end of the episode, Peter shares personal anecdotes about balancing entrepreneurship with family life, the importance of staying humble despite success, and his commitment to leaving a lasting legacy through his ventures and philanthropic efforts.

Peter (A): "I prefer to be the legacy guy, creating difference and making a change, but I'm happy to do that behind the scenes."

He emphasizes the invaluable lessons learned from early failures and the support system provided by his family and dedicated team, which have been instrumental in navigating his path to success.

Peter (A): "I have to control those things because you're in the same world as them. You have to keep making more money to keep supporting them."

Peter concludes with a powerful reminder to stay connected to one's roots and maintain resilience in the face of adversity.

Peter (A): "You gotta remember, because you could be there again tomorrow. There's no guarantee."

---

Conclusion

This episode of Digital Social Hour offers a profound look into Peter Khoury's entrepreneurial journey, marked by resilience, strategic innovation, and a deep commitment to social impact. From overcoming bankruptcy to orchestrating a multi-billion-dollar enterprise, Peter's story serves as an inspiring testament to the power of perseverance and visionary leadership. His initiative, Give Kindly, exemplifies how business can be a force for good, seamlessly integrating profitability with philanthropy to create sustainable and meaningful change.

Notable Quotes:

• Peter (A) [07:27]: "Exactly. It's not exclusive to any one country. They have a nice habit of shooting themselves in the foot."
• Peter (A) [14:38]: "People always see you at the end when you've made it, but no one gets the bullshit it takes to get through."
• Peter (A) [23:07]: "Give Kindly is not just giving, but giving people the opportunity to give."
• Peter (A) [29:11]: "I just want that change to happen and that impact happened."
• Peter (A) [35:02]: "Give Kindly intends to be that choice where they can stop breaking everyone to give more cash."

---

Where to Connect with Peter Khoury

• Give Kindly Website: givekindly.com
• Give Kindly App: Available on the Apple Play Store and Apple Store
• R2B Group: For more information on Peter's other ventures, visit the official R2B Group website or follow their social media channels.

---

Support This Episode:

Peter invites listeners to support Give Kindly by making purchases through their platform, emphasizing the impact of each sale on chosen charities.

Peter (A) [48:06]: "I'll buy something tonight. It's all women's clothing, apparel. I'd like to see we dress in the next podcast anyway."

---

Tune in next week for another episode of unfiltered and thought-provoking conversations on Digital Social Hour.

Transcript

[A]

Thousand migrants coming in and there's not enough houses.

[B]

Wow.

[A]

The government's saying they have to push for an extra 160,000 over the next three years. But the industry over there, you know, they say we need to do this over here. But on the other hand of things, they make it quite difficult to do what they need to do with regulation and bureaucracy and a lot of politics. Yeah, well, that red tape, I mean, they want to. I just don't think they're, they're capable of hitting that target now.

[B]

All right, guys, all the way from Australia, we got Peter here today. Thanks for flying in.

[A]

Thanks for having me. Absolutely.

[B]

That's a long flight, so I appreciate that.

[A]

Yeah. But it's time travel. Right. So we're tomorrow right here. So I, I flew back into the past and tomorrow I'm going back into the future.

[B]

There we go. How you like in Vegas? Is this your first time here?

[A]

No, not first time. I actually came here after the. I went to see the Brazil World Cup. So we've done Brazil, Argentina, Vegas. But then a lot younger, a lot different circumstances now. Wife and two kids. So it's a very different Vegas experience than single man going and taking it on after the World Cup.

[B]

I love it. So you're a big football fan?

[A]

Yeah, I mean, I think it was more experience. I'm actually a big basketball guy, but.

[B]

Oh, yeah.

[A]

Yeah. When you get the opportunity to go to the World cup, you don't say no.

[B]

What's your favorite era of basketball?

[A]

You know what? I like it today. I do like the whole. The three point world.

[B]

Yeah. 53 pointers a game.

[A]

Yeah, exactly right. Exactly right. I'd like it more if I could shoot more, but yeah, it's definitely fun to watch now. These guys are just different now. They shoot from everywhere, they dunk from everywhere. They're Less limitations. Yeah, they're doing a totally different world right now.

[B]

Is it big over in Australia? Basketball, it's.

[A]

It's very clicky. I mean, I suppose it's quite large, but nothing like it is in the States. Right. So, you know, probably about 25, 30% of the people love it. And then the rest of it, just.

[B]

Accept that it's makes sense. You guys got a few. You got Ben Simmons, right?

[A]

Yeah, I mean, yeah, he's. I mean, Josh Giddey. We've got, We've actually got a fair few right now. I mean, Patty Mills has always been our.

[B]

Patty Mills is good.

[A]

Our poster boy. And then we've got, you know, you know, there's actually A crapload of us in there right now. Dyson Daniels is killing it right now. He's what, he's doing like four to five steals a game. Yeah. He's killing, right? Yeah. I don't think he's playing in the NBA this year. I don't. I'm not sure.

[B]

He's getting older now. Yeah.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

But he had a good run at the Cavs.

[A]

Yeah. Thiable as well.

[B]

Thibel. He's good.

[A]

I mean, we've got a really good squad. I mean, we've done all right in the. I don't think the last Olympics are done well, but the year before. I think next year we're gonna have a really. A lot. There's a lot more merchant guys coming out, so let's go.

[B]

What sport are you guys known for, though?

[A]

Australia's got Aussie rules, so it's got that afl probably. You don't know it.

[B]

Cricket. Oh, cricket.

[A]

Yeah, yeah, cricket. Afl, Rugby league.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

So it's basically, you know, a very different sport to American football. Tried to watch that yesterday. Don't understand a lot of start. Stop, man. I don't know exactly what's going on.

[B]

It's too slow for me.

[A]

Yeah, yeah. But it's like they're playing in the ice, so they were playing the snow.

[B]

Oh, that game, the Buffalo Bills game.

[A]

That was just nuts.

[B]

I was nuts, man.

[A]

I was freezing looking at them. I was eating a piece of pizza going, man, I'm cold. It doesn't make sense, but now we've got a lot of sports up there. We're very sporting country and we punch way above our weight.

[B]

Nice.

[A]

Like if you say we've got like three people in the Formula one, when you can.

[B]

Oh, really?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

That's more than us.

[A]

Well, I think you guys had one, but it got dropped.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

We're not good at racing.

[A]

Yeah. Yeah. I mean, you guys got your own little version of it, right? NASCAR and that sort of stuff. Like, we got our V8, but yeah. Australia is a very much a sporting country. We take it very seriously. Like, our population is so small.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Compared to you guys, we got like 24 million total, but we still compete.

[B]

Yeah. We got states bigger than that.

[A]

Yeah. I'm telling you, I think your GDP of California is three times the size of Australia's.

[B]

Wow.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

That's crazy.

[A]

We're a small little place.

[B]

Yeah. But it's a good thing too, for you guys. Like, you in business.

[A]

Yeah. I mean, it's very good. You can. You can definitely do some cool Things there, dominate. Get a lot of stuff from overseas, bring it down there. But the difference with business, obviously market size. Right. So which is why, you know, we're doing what we're doing here in the States. We. When you talk about, you know, going mass market to Australia and 24 million people compared to, you know, 300, close to 400 million people, it's totally different. Ball game, right.

[B]

There's probably not many billion dollar companies over there.

[A]

A few. But like. Yeah, you can count them. Count them on one hand. Yeah, yeah, yeah, I'd say. I mean nowadays they're getting bigger. I mean the Fortune 100 is, is, is up there. So you're saying about 100, 150, 200, maybe more. I might be talking out of my ass, but I'm sure there's stats for it. But there are definitely some, some big players out there. There's a lot of managed funds out there that are doing quite well. But you got to remember Australia is also very wealthy country. Right. Especially their property market. I think Australia's got the, you know, largest amount of millionaires in terms of per capita. Just in terms of.

[B]

Yeah. Sydney, right? Was it like a million dollar house on average?

[A]

Well, yeah, you got people, they've never worked day in their life, inherited a house worth 200k, it's now worth, you know, 1.2, 1.3.

[B]

Right.

[A]

The housing market, that's crazy. Which is, you know, why my, my company in Sydney does so well.

[B]

But did you time that market? Like were you getting stuff?

[A]

I wish I was that clever. Yeah, we were working on it for a very long time. And Australia's always. Housing market's always been growing.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So it's not something you can kind of really time. You just, you know, from the day you were born, your parents bought one at, you know, 20k and then by the time you got to 1617.

[C]

Marketing is hard, but I'll tell you a little secret. It doesn't have to be. Let me point something out. You're listening to a podcast right now and it's great. You love the host, you seek it out and download it. You listen to it while driving, working out, cooking, even going to the bathroom. Podcasts are a pretty close companion. And this is a podcast ad. Did I get your attention? You can reach great listeners like yourself with podcast advertising from Libsyn Ads, choose from hundreds of top podcasts offering host endorsements, or run a pre produced ad like this one across thousands of shows to reach your target audience in their favorite podcasts with Libsyn ads go to Libsynads.com that's L I B S Y N ads.com today.

[B]

All right, shout out to today's sponsor. Specialized recruiting group Navigating the professional job search is hard. You know the perfect job is out there. You're just not sure how to find it. The good news is you don't have to go at it alone. You just need Specialized recruiting group [e-mail] we're here to guide you and help you find a role that fits all without costing a dime. Meet specialized recruiting group offering a tailored approach to find your next role go to srgpros.com and get on the right course. Your local specialized recruiting group team knows which businesses are hiring and can offer you a path to contract and full time roles. Don't see the role you're looking for on the website. Well, they also recruit for confidential roles. So give an office near you a call to learn more. Take the next step in your career by starting SRG pros.com with 3400 and.

[A]

You thought you were you're rich as and then, then just things got real crazy and then now it's getting more so because it's like the housing crisis situation over there.

[B]

Yeah, there's not enough.

[A]

Well yeah, so we've got migrants coming, 600,000 migrants coming in and there's not enough houses. The government saying they have to push an extra 160,000 over the next three years. But the industry over there, you know, they say we need to do this over here. But on the other hand of things they make it quite difficult to do what they need to do with regulation and bureaucracy and a lot of politics. Yeah, well, that red tape, I mean they want to. I just don't think that they're capable of hitting that target now. I mean companies like ours will help, you know, and that's an Australian company. They'll go a long way to helping achieve that. But you know, they kind of try to despite themselves. They could, could do it quite easily but you know there's a lot of.

[B]

Bureaucracy at past that's just governments all over the world. Yeah, they're not efficient.

[A]

Exactly. It's not, it's not exclusive to any, any one country. Man. They have a nice habit of shooting themselves in the foot but publicly, you know, claiming the victory.

[B]

I just saw one, I forget the guy's name but he got a huge budget to build electronic charging stations out here and he only built eight. Got like billions of dollars.

[A]

Yeah, I mean you can do better by Going to the shopping batteries, right?

[B]

Yes. Crazy.

[A]

I think that, I think the best example I had was in, I was traveling through Lebanon and I was on one of those big highway roads and it was just like pothole after pothole. And this thing was like out of control, man. And yeah, he's like, yeah, they just got a 30 million dollar budget to fix these potholes up. I go, how'd they go? Having seen a single person on site.

[B]

But that's going in someone's pocket.

[A]

Yeah, exactly, right, man. It's just the, the way the world works. I mean, you know, they grace the wheels and don't get much done, but up to us private citizens to do what we can to, to make it all happen.

[B]

Because how do they treat, how does Australia treat entrepreneurship over there?

[A]

You know, listen, they fly the flag, but they don't help much. They try to say, yeah, well done, good job, let's support you. But you know, I don't want to complain because all the opportunities there, right. So you can't spit in the face of opportunity in Australia because they kind of let you go your own way. But I think it's, Dana White said it best. All you want from your government is to kind of protect you, uphold the law and just leave you the hell alone.

[B]

Right.

[A]

Which is, you know, very much the same in Australia. I mean, the opportunity is there, the marketplace is there. You can succeed, you can failure all off your own merit. You know, there, there are government things out there designed to help people, but they're not really for, for me, so I wouldn't get too involved. So I can't badmouth it too much. I mean, it's the country that feeds me and all the opportunities there. But again, as little I can do, you know, with them means I'm doing a good job.

[B]

I agree.

[A]

Stay out of the spotlight, just do your work. I mean, we're involved somewhat. We've got, you know, a really good guy on our board who's ex, an ex minister. But yeah, I don't try to play too much in that pool.

[B]

That makes sense. I'm the same way as least involvement as possible.

[A]

Yeah, stay, stay apolitical, man. Because I mean, especially here, right here, you such different opposing sides.

[B]

Oh yeah.

[A]

You know, you can't really be on both sides and be, you know, apolitical. In, in Australia we, we think they're both. So yeah, we get to, we get to live with the fact that in, you know, the Australia's freedom is that you just literally ridicule both sides and you're fine with it, right? No one really likes either one.

[B]

Yeah, it's crazy how much American politics bleeds in other countries.

[A]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean Australia is probably one of the most influenced places by America in terms of, you know, you know, if Australia, if America sneezes, Australia is the first one with the tissue. So we're right behind you guys. I'm pretty much everything, whether it be, you know, conflict, security or what have you.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So. Yeah, but again, like I'm so far out of that political world, it's, it's out of control. I just want to do my thing and focus on, you know, my entrepreneurial missions but also my, my social causes, which is, you know, my reason for being.

[B]

Absolutely. Yeah. We'll dive into the social stuff. I want to first learn about how you scaled this thing because you scaled quick.

[A]

Yeah, you're talking about the, my Australian one.

[B]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[A]

So our group in Australia is called R2B group. It's helping people buy properties at deposits. So for those who don't know the Australian property market, it, it's really expensive to get in. So the Average Australian takes 10 years to save for a deposit.

[B]

Wow.

[A]

When you think about rent, it's $500 a week. You know, that's $260,000 you put to your landlord before you can even start paying your mortgage. And then the thing about that is the housing market's growing so significantly that even if you're saving for a 40, 50k deposit by the time it's, it's time and you already got your 50k, it's now 100k, now it's 200k. So the gold coat posts keep moving. So originally the company was set up to help people the deposits. And how we did that is we had nine different companies in the group. So you come to me, Sean, you want to buy property. So I go, okay, no problem. You go through our process. You pay us a fee to be a part of an incubator to get you ready. You then go into our finance division, we get you pre approved for a loan and let's say we make commission off that three grand. And then you get our real estate division, we source you a block of land, let's say you make 10, 20K off that, off the commission, just like a normal agent with. Yeah, and then we put a block of build on that block of land. We build it for you. Let's say we make 50, 60. And then we go to our legal team which we own a 50% stake in and then they'll do the conveyancing. So collectively from a client, you're an 80, $90,000.

[B]

Wow.

[A]

And then what we used to do is you take that money put into our credit license, our bank license, and issue that to you as a deposit. And that's, that's hard going, right, because you are literally funding this big operation. But most of the money that comes in actually goes out as an asset you're still getting principal interest on, it's still secured. And that was the first three years of just paying. Right. And then, you know, year four, year five, we decided to establish a managed fund, which was the fund designed to raise money through the public. And then from that money, we get the deposits in there so we could scale without, you know, having to dip into our own pockets all the time. And that was quite successful. So that really started going caught eight months ago, nine months ago, by the time we got through all the red tape. And then all of a sudden we had other people's money. So we went straight from having a $3 million, you know, win for, sorry, revenue and a 2 million dollar loss because we raised some capital, we invested it, and then July 1st this year, we kick off the, the new fund, and then we sign up about $80 million in business straight off the bat with about a 20% EBITDA. And that went really good and really strong. And, you know, we were ready for it. We raised the capital, invested the right way. But as soon as got the fund going and everything was going really well, you know, we got a knock on the door, and when I say a knock on the door, we'd been applying for what's called a debt warehouse facility, which is like a bank gives you a pool of money to lend out underneath your own brand. So I counted 167 rejection letters of me applying for this in the last six years. And now that everything was going well, we had our fund. One of the guys who rejected us about 30 times said, yeah, we're ready to pay. We were originally applying for a $10 million debt warehouse, which gives us 100 million to lend out because we just did the deposits.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And we've come back to the table now with $1.3 billion. So. So starting February next year, we've got $1.3 billion to put out, which is 1.3 billion in sales. So there's no way we can build all that. There's no way we can do all that. I mean, we've only raised a little bit, right. So we got to just Work our ass off next year and go from a company that earned 3 million to. To 90 million in the last three months.

[B]

Wow.

[A]

To now being a company that can do 1.3 billion. And thankfully, we've got a really good team. So I've got a really good CEO, Nice. Good board, amazing bunch of general managers and a lot of people now. And I think we're really up to the task, man. But it's going to be a really amazing next few months, which is why, you know, when I came out here to the podcast and a few television interviews, three or four days. Have to get right back, man. It doesn't stop.

[B]

Yeah, that's exciting, man.

[A]

It is, man. I'm pumped. It's really a good time. It's. What's the expression, you know, you work your ass off for six years because to become an overnight success. Right. But I'm not going to claim the overnight success title yet. I mean, the work, when you win these contracts, the work doesn't stop, it starts.

[B]

Exactly.

[A]

So it's now time to. To get really into it, get into the weeds, and hopefully 12 months from now, we'll have a totally different ball game.

[B]

That's super cool, dude.

[A]

Yeah, it's super exciting, man.

[B]

Yeah. People say that about the podcast. They're like, you blew up overnight. Yeah, I filmed 1200 episodes. Yeah.

[A]

No one ever sees it. Yeah, everyone. I mean, it's, it's, it's funny. It's a connection that us entrepreneurs have. Everyone always sees you at the end when you've made it, you're successful, you're. You're living a certain lifestyle, but no one gets the bullshit it takes to get through. Right. Yeah. You know, working through till 2, 3 in the morning. The ideas that come at 5, 6 in the morning that you have to write down because it's, you know, killing you. And then you're like, why isn't you watching? Why isn't everyone coming? Why isn't. Why are they making money? I remember doing 5,6 million on revenue and feeling broken and overflowed in my life and what the hell is going on this place? But, you know, I think it's a connection that we all just get it. I mean, we will ask, how was the struggle? Right? Because it's. It's tough.

[B]

Yeah, we got that trauma bond.

[A]

Yeah, exactly.

[B]

Right now. But people. Yeah, people see those revenues and they're like, oh, you must be rich.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

It's like, no. Yeah, we keep like 50k a year.

[A]

Yeah. We call whiteboard. Whiteboard rich.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Because my first company, we used to, you know, write up our contract, we sign a deal, we put on the whiteboard, and then, you know, go borrow 10 bucks from mom to go have a coffee.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Come on, man. That's like.

[B]

Yeah. I think they call it Excel Sheet millionaires or something.

[A]

Yeah. Yeah, there we go. It works the same way. Maybe I started back in the whiteboard before Excel was doing as I needed to do.

[B]

I remember those whiteboard sessions. Those are. I'll never forget those, man.

[A]

I still have them. Like, I mean, my office at home, I put in a 6 meter by 2 meter whiteboard in the back of my office.

[B]

I love it.

[A]

Yeah, Beautiful. Kit up. I mean, we have that also, that entrepreneur's insomnia. Right. So wake up at 2 in the morning. I got this idea. All right, just sleep. We'll do it in the morning.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Got to get to my whiteboard and sort it all out.

[B]

I used to wake up panicked at midnight, like, for my Facebook ads.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Like, I was like, oh, I got to make sure they're running properly.

[A]

Yeah. I mean, because that's the worst. Right? Because Facebook has this thing where they just kind of. It's been declined and you're like, you're doing the whole night, nothing's happened. Like, oh, come on, man.

[B]

And then you got to make sure you're. Sometimes your site crashes and you're still spending the money.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Or like you get banned on Facebook.

[A]

Oh, man, I'm getting. Thank God it's not my problem anymore.

[B]

Thank God I'm out of E commerce. The margins were too low.

[A]

Exactly. Right, man. But it's. I mean, I'm not getting into it. You're not setting me up for that. You're not making me feel good about that one. But yeah, it's. The margins are low, man, but it's. I think the best thing about E commerce is, and that's something I've played in for long, is the actual scale of the market you're playing with. It's nuts. Right?

[B]

Right.

[A]

I mean, everyone.

[B]

Yeah, I still run Facebook ads for my events and they're. They're still really good, though.

[A]

Yeah. I saw some of your podcasts. You talk about your networking events there.

[B]

Yeah. Do they have those in Australia?

[A]

They have these networking groups. They have these networking parties. I've just joined one recently, which is more like not high net worth, but people with 30 million-plus in revenue in the economy.

[B]

Pretty good.

[A]

Yeah. They're stupid expensive to get into. I mean, they've got things like bni and that, but, you know, it's just a lot of work, a lot of commitment. But they're small. 15, 20 people, 30, 40 people. But, yeah, maybe I'm not part of the scene. I wouldn't know as much. Even there is an entrepreneurial scene in Australia. But again, man, when you're wearing the thick of it, you just don't have that time to commit to it, where it's, you know, whatever time you're not, you know, in the boardroom or in the office, you kind of are the schmoozing, shaking hands or trying to spend time with the family. I'm trying to make sure I don't miss these kids growing up.

[B]

So I feel that for me, it's important just to shake hands for. For potential podcast guests and, you know, sponsors or whatever. So.

[A]

And that's your bread and butter. And you know what? That was my bread and butter, too. Like, shake. I mean, nowadays I don't operationally get involved too much with my big firm in Australia. It's more about, you know, keeping up with investors, doing the big deal, shaking hands and all that sort of stuff. But it's just a different point now in the cycle where I've got the, you know, I try to keep the CEO at the front of mind for everything. I try to have him be the face of everything. Because end of the day, the chairman isn't the one who, you know, everyone's got to, you know, get behind the CEO impacts the board and the chairman's vision.

[B]

Right.

[A]

But the CEO, who's. Who you hire to represent you on every level. So, you know, now he's the one, you know, a guy called Phil Lee. He's doing all the handshakes and kissing all the babies and doing all those photo ops. So he's doing a great job of that and probably a lot better job than I would because he's got way more patience than me.

[B]

I love it. You've had issues controlling your patients.

[A]

Oh, man. I think it's just all of us, right? I mean, like, we're always thinking, we're always moving. You know, when you're. When you're stuck sitting down for a few hours or two, you get yourself a bit antsy. Right. And don't get me wrong, it's not a problem. I control it as much as I need to. I'm just glad I don't have to anymore.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

You know, I do what I want to do and what I feel benefits the company under the direction of the, you know, the board and the CEO and do my best to get good results for the firm and for everything I'm doing, you know, particularly this charity effort, social business I'm working on. It's doing what I want to do, what I'm passionate about, which means that I have to control those things that, you know, you're in. A child trying to just get out of his skin and run around and dance.

[B]

Yeah. Less pressure behind the scenes. There's pros and cons to both.

[A]

Yeah, man. I don't think I've got any interest in being at the forefront of things. I mean, I think even now for. For Give Kindly, I've just appointed a GM who'll be doing all the media stuff, so this will be like, you know, one and done for me. Australia has this weird thing, maybe it's not unique to Australia has a lot of tall poppy syndrome.

[B]

I've heard of it.

[A]

Yeah. It's like when you're. And this is a big cultural difference between Australia and the us, right? In us, you guys really get behind your millionaires, billionaires. You kind of go, you know, you've done well. Good on you. Congratulations for all you've done. And by the way, I'm not in those categories. Right. But in Australia, it's kind of like, look at this loser.

[B]

Oh, really?

[A]

Yeah. Pull your head in, mate. It's so generally speaking, you don't want to be seen as that guy who's doing those things. Wow. I prefer to be the legacy guy, which is, you know, creating difference, making a change. But I'm happy to do that, you know, just behind the scenes, you know, pull the strings in terms of the charity stuff. What? You know, it's between me, my family and the big man upstairs or whatever I do. So, you know, the behind the scenes is contrary to what I'm doing today, but definitely where I prefer to be. And we're more comfortable. I'm more comfortable where I think I can make more impact.

[B]

Right.

[A]

The less they see it coming, the more you can do.

[B]

Yeah, that's interesting. Yeah, I like that. So is that why you started Give Kindly? You wanted to make some impact, man?

[A]

So Give Kind. I started was 13, so 24 years ago, that was. It's always been my only mission. Right. So 13. I'd done a, you know, mediocre job of doing whatever I could, but it wasn't a social, digital thing back then. So that was, you know, first failure. And then I failed again at like, 18. I tried to do it again with, again, very small budget, and then 2526, I gave it a real shot, failed again. But what I mean by real shot is I spent on the marketing but didn't spend on the development. So that crashed and now I'm 37, going on 38. And I just said, you know what? This is, it's it. I'm now decently capitalized. I'm not, I haven't got enough, you know, I've got nothing else holding me back right now. So I just thought, you know, what if I give this one last really good shot? I've always said I wanted to do it in the States as opposed to Australia. So I just thought I'm not going to do the Australia soft launch and make it happen there. I was going to put all my energy into the US and try to see if I can make a real impact. And I think that's what's always been about for me. So even Give kindly, I mean R2B, as much as I'm passionate and love it, that's helping people for a living. Right? Every company I have has to have that ethos, helping people for a living because I feel like when you fail, you succeed. And thankfully, you know, I've done a lot of businesses call it, you know, 12%, 14% strike rate of big successes compared to miserable losses. But each one was a, was a lesson. And now Give Kindly is that, you know, zero fear in trying. I'm basically committing basically a big stack of all my wealth to doing it. My wife's behind me, everyone's behind me and we're just going to give it a one big crack and we've got a good team behind it now and yeah, I'm really pumped for it.

[B]

I love it. Could you explain the concept of it?

[A]

Yeah. So. So simply put, I think the world has enough charities didn't want to be an extra one. The whole purpose behind Give Kindly is not just giving, but giving people opportunity to give. One thing I've always found with all my philanthropic endeavors and all the things I've been involved with is the everyday Australian, everyday American, they all want to give. So what the Give Kindly platform does is quite simple. There's a E commerce market out there, people buy products that they want anyway. So right now we're focusing on women's clothing and accessories. A percentage of each of those items from our profit goes towards a charity of your choice. So you have an affinity with that purchase because that affinity that that purchase is going towards your charity, something you believe in.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So the whole point is to just get people doing Whatever they want to do regardless and having a percentage go towards a charity of their choice. So now it's again women's clothing and accessories. But the long term vision is to basically fund charities so the charities can do what they do best. Because I believe charities get a lot of heat. Right. And some rightly so and some not so much. But the people are putting donations in to, you know, feed the homeless, to expect food, to get to homeless. But charities have operational costs, they need to employ staff, they need to, you know, have a building. Some of them they need to, you know, get their websites going. So not every dollar goes towards that. And the nature of the people who run these charities aren't like us in terms of being entrepreneurial, preneurial. So they can't take that money and reinvest it to have ongoing revenues going towards these causes and nor should they because they can't risk people's money. So the whole concept is to develop things that genove, develop recurring revenues for charities so they can do what they do best and as entrepreneurs can take the risk because I think that's our, our responsibility. But not just that I want to demonstrate that you can make money off doing it.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So it's not a charity from my end as a social business because I feel like if I can demonstrate that, hey, you can do good things for the community and make money, it can be a model that people emulate. You know, my long term vision is having you know, 13 year old Pete out there, you know, saying, hey, I want to do this business but I want to center it around a marketing focus on social causes and charity so that impact can make, you know, a bigger, that, that ripple can keep going and make greater impact.

[B]

That's cool. Yeah. One of the issues with charity is like how they use the funds to, you know.

[A]

Exactly. Right. And it's very regulated in Australia. But again I get two elements of it right. Because people look at a cupcake stand and say, hey, 100% of that money is on a charity, but you've now made $600. Right. But then you look at those big institutions where you know, where you're actually having to house a thousand people, feed a thousand people, you know, you need to market, you need to go out there, you have to put the publicity out there, you have to run these big events.

[B]

Right.

[A]

And yes, they're maybe got a billion dollars in there and 500 million is going towards those causes, but that's 500 million compared to $600.

[B]

Fair point.

[A]

So they're Making greater impact. They're doing more, but the percentages don't align because just like we were talking about before, you know, you had your business, they're seeing your revenue, they're going, hey, you should be rich right now. The same world applies to them, but they live in a really different world than us because we make money, we reinvest the money, and then we grow from there for them. They receive the money as a gift, and they have to spend it and then have to beg for it again. They have to spend it and have to beg for it.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

System doesn't work. So, you know, the system where it works the most is where there's institutional partnerships and, you know, there's a company that has, you know, a partnership, and they have an alignment to a cause. And they say, as a company, I want to support that cause. And, you know, and we saw it firsthand. Like we. We built a disability center in Zimbabwe. It cost 30K, which, you know, in Australia doesn't buy your letterbox. Right. But it was our company deciding this is a cause. We wanted to support them back. There was no tax deduction associated with it because it doesn't go to a charity. We've physically built it, but that alignment worked. But really, it's not sustainable unless there's a corporate edge to it and people are making money somehow for it to go there.

[B]

Right.

[A]

Because yeah, I get their perspective. They want to get all their money towards the right things, but it's not the way the world works. If they just did that, they'd be able to do it once, and then they're done. Because the doors.

[B]

That's why your model makes more sense. Because they're getting purchases every day.

[A]

Well, yeah, it's recurring. Eventually, the goal is that they can count on it. They can expect it to come every single month. That's the. That's the big vision. And then when that comes, they can drop their reliance on generating more revenue and they can just live with the fact that it's coming in each month and play towards their strengths. Right. I mean, my. My ultimate vision is the. The charity focused on feeding the homeless just focuses on feeding the homeless. Right?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And again, I can't begrudge them not doing that now because the system doesn't work in their favor. But I definitely feel that they need some support and help. And the only way I can make a change beyond myself is just demonstrate that, hey, you can be very successful, make money for yourself while supporting these causes, and hope that either a, we're Successful enough that we could do it off the back of give kindly, but ultimately we could just demonstrate that give kindly successful, and then a thousand other people come to compete against me, maybe do better, and then they take the. The baton and live the burden of trying to make a legacy and impact.

[B]

I love that because either way, it's helping people.

[A]

Yeah, man. I don't. You know, I think the first launch I had at 18, I talked about the metaphor is, you know, the person who's cold and homeless doesn't care what you thought about when you gave that jacket up, you know, into the homeless bin. They just want to be warm. Right. So that impact, I didn't care if it comes from me. I don't care if it comes from anyone.

[B]

Right.

[A]

I just want that change to happen and that impact happened. And I think what it will have is a, you know, a ripple effect on society because people feel good about giving.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And the more people feel good about giving, the more they feel good about themselves. And, you know, the more they feel good about themselves, the more they do with themselves. Right. So it's trying to beat, breed a culture of giving and intertwine with the culture of entrepreneurialism. And hopefully the side effect is lots of people make a lot of money and lots of good things happen.

[B]

Love it. I've seen a similar model at grocery stores. So when you check out, I'll say you want to round up.

[A]

Yeah, that's. That's the thing. They're asking the consumer to round up. Why aren't they just putting up?

[B]

And I usually say no, to be honest.

[A]

Yeah. And I feel you, too, because there's also a lot of pressure, Right?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Especially here in. Sorry, man. In the States, this whole tipping culture's got so confused. Right.

[B]

You have to tip on takeout orders.

[A]

Well, so you see a receipt. Right? You see a receipt. It's got, like, the price, 478 different taxes to it. And then you finish. Okay. And now you have to tip again, 20%. Yeah. And then I don't begrudge it, but it's confusing because then they're going to ask you on top to put more money there. Right. So in Australia, it's not commonplace. And again, I'm not.

[B]

Oh, you're not supposed to tip.

[A]

Well, I mean, you can. It's not.

[B]

But they're on an hourly wage probably.

[A]

Yeah. Yeah.

[B]

Here they're not on, like, very minimal hourly wage.

[A]

Yeah. I think our minimum wage is 25 bucks an hour.

[B]

Damn. Yeah, it's like $2 here I think.

[A]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. So we would go to jail for that. Like seriously, we would go for jail, go to jail for that. But yeah, it's a different culture altogether. But again, asking the consumer to put on top doesn't make any sense. I mean, are you trying to do good? Are you just trying to look good by making people do good for you.

[B]

And they get to write it off.

[A]

Yeah, exactly right. It makes no sense. So for us, we give the money from our profit side and for the meantime, because of technology, this is a minimum viable product. For the meantime we are writing that off. But our goal is within six months time is that you will get that receipt.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So you will get that written off. So step one is get them to buy what they would otherwise buy already and the percentage goes towards a charity. That's, that's step one. Step two is to get the, the tax benefit for that as well. So we can actually start getting deductions out to the community for doing good.

[B]

That makes sense.

[A]

So we're not out there to make the, the, the, the big hits on this. We're looking, trying to make lots of littles.

[B]

Yeah, yeah. My, my issue is too, if you actually look into the charities that they're rounding up for and you look at like how they're spending their money, it's just, it's not good, dude.

[A]

Yeah, I mean it, it's, there's a lot of that going on. And I think as well with this as influence, right. If you're the person who can provide the capital, you can basically put some kind of requirements to that capital. If you're generating 60, 70, 80k a month right now, you know, to the one cause and it may be a small and a medium charity, you can have the conversation going, guys, we're now giving you this money and we're happy to give you this money, but to maintain that, we're going to have to see some kind of results from that. And there's accountability to that. Right now I don't think there's that much accountability at all. But, but also, again, I don't know how it works in the states, but some of the guys who go out there to, to raise money for charity, a percentage goes towards the sales people.

[B]

Yeah, I think that, that happens here.

[A]

Yeah. 30 to 40 or something like that.

[B]

Damn. That high.

[A]

Jesus. Actually, I know it's in the States. I had, I think there was one of those, those YouTube clips. So what do you do for a living?

[B]

Oh, Daniel Mac.

[A]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And then. Yeah, so Just the percentage goes towards them and like, okay, I get it. You gotta eat. Everyone's gotta eat. And for the record, I don't begrudge anyone eating. Man, it's hard out there. You got to do what you got to do. But I just think there's a, A sanctity of the whole charity thing that you have to preserve.

[B]

Right.

[A]

Because if you ruin that image to the person out there, you can't recover from that.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

You see it nowadays, you know, with what you're saying makes sense. You know, how they're spending their money. It doesn't make sense. And that one person, who, one company that's doing it is then gonna ripple effect to other charities. But.

[B]

Right.

[A]

Some of these charities, like, need to exist. Otherwise.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

It gets done.

[B]

Well, right now, just donating for the most part isn't a pleasant experience because I've donated to Save the Children and a few others, and they send me in the mail every month asking for more money.

[A]

Yeah, but then that comes back to the system, right? What choice they have.

[B]

Right. They need to erase it.

[A]

Yeah, yeah, you have to. I mean, again, it's, it's frustrating, it's annoying, but it's logical that that's what they have to do.

[B]

Right.

[A]

I've done the same thing. Right. Because they, if the. Okay, so let's say you, you get your ultimate outcome. They spend your money on saving the children, right? That's your ultimate outcome. So if you're giving a thousand bucks, you want that thousand dollars to go to that cause, right? That's your ultimate outcome. So then what. So if they got a hundred thousand dollars now come through from that drive. People have come through. They've now done exactly what you wanted to do. Do they close shop the next day?

[B]

No, they got to keep doing it.

[A]

They got to keep doing it. Right. So again, it's not ideal. The system's flawed. It relies on the donations of people. It's, you know, it's annoying. It's constant. It's. It's somewhat aggressive at times.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

But you kind of get it because if they got that cash from you, they've made a difference. They want to keep making that difference. And there's no system out there right now designed to give them recurring revenue to keep doing it. Right. And it's not like they can take your money and go, okay, I'm going to invest in this business now so I can have a recurring revenue come into the firm. Some companies or some churches and charities do that in Australia, but they use their Own money from the, the, the people internally first. Right, right. But sustainably speaking, charity only, they got no choice. And this, that's what I feel Give Kindly intends to be. It intends to be that choice where they can stop breaking everyone to give more cash.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Because they know more money's coming in next month. Because I can only imagine, man, like if your goal is to spend every cent on your cause, then you can only do it for one week.

[B]

Yeah, that must be stressful for charity owners.

[A]

Yeah. I mean you get the perspective. Again, I'm not coming to the, you know, giving them a hurrah and they're saying they're doing a great job. I don't know specifically which ones are, which ones aren't. And I'm sure there's a lot of them that are doing a rubbish job.

[B]

Right.

[A]

But I'm sure there's also a lot of them doing a great job. And where Give Kindly intends to be is to, you know, work with your angst and go, let me take that responsibility off you. Let me instead take that burden off you and go, let me be the one to give you that cause through my entrepreneurial endeavors. Let me make money by doing it so I can show the world this system works and keep it going. And I'm not the first to do it. I mean, shout out. There's a lot of know, social business adventures out there, like you know, Tom Shoes is one for example, that make direct impact. So I'm not a pioneer of intermingling social endeavors with business but what I hope to do is get rid of that burden from the individual who just has to keep redipping into their pockets because, you know, there's only so much you have as well. Right, right. It's, you're in the same world as them. You have to keep making more money to keep supporting them.

[B]

Yeah, yeah, I could definitely see that it's a big problem. If you could solve it, it'll do well.

[A]

Yeah, I mean that's, that's the dream, that's the goal and I think that's how everything starts. Right. Yeah, you have your, your big long term vision and goal and you know, just kind of chip away at it. Just like R2B. Right. We, we had our big dream of getting that warehouse and it took six years to get it across the line. And you know, sometimes it could have taken 20 years, sometimes it takes 30 years, sometimes it doesn't happen.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

But you know, this one has now been going 24 years since 13. It's just that how to make the impact happen and, you know, with the support of the people and if they believe in the same vision, hopefully we can work together to, to make it a reality.

[B]

Absolutely. And you start at 13 and you had humble beginnings. So you weren't wealthy back then?

[A]

I mean, no, I mean, like, listen, I want to give all credit to the parents. They gave us, you know, every opportunity out there. I mean, they, they struggled like hell to put us in, you know, a decent, good school and, you know, they, they'd done their best to not show us any of the struggle, but, I mean, there was also a lot of benefit to that. Right. So when, you know, my dad, may rest in peace, got sick and, you know, me and my brother would go to the. He had a printing press at, you know, four or five in the morning before school and school holidays and do some things, you know, just to keep it going while he was dealing with his Ms. At the time. And, you know, looking back at the time and they were the best times because they teach you so much. You know, we came out of, you know, we're living based out in, you know, overseas, moved to Australia and from there my parents just tried like hell to make things happen. My dad, again, may rest in peace, just kept trying different businesses, somewhat really good, some, you know, struggled. And we saw the struggle through him, so we knew what to expect. While my mum just, you know, worked her ass off in, you know, she was a, a corporate kind of person and just kept putting food on the table together and, you know, so they set the blueprint of what hard work was needed and me and my brother and sister took the baton and done the best we could.

[B]

I love a similar. My parents, my dad was the entrepreneur and my mom was the corporate. It's good to experience both perspectives.

[A]

Well, you need it, right? Because the entrepreneur is rich one day, broke the next, and then the, the, the grinder who sits behind the desk and does what they need to do just keeps the, you know, keeps the mortgage going, keeps the food on the table and struggles through it all because you just don't know. And, you know, I remember when I got engaged to my wife, I said to her, understand, it's not easy being married to someone like, you know, entrepreneurial. Yeah, yeah. Because, you know, a. There's a lot of risk and my risk is your risk and the nature of my risk is I, I continue to keep taking it. Right, because, you know, most people's job, let's say you're a builder, you start, you do the slab, frame you build the house. Do you need to do an entrepreneur, takes his money, puts it into a pit and hope it comes out together quite well. And sometimes it does, sometimes it doesn't. And you always have to be the lead investor, right?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Yeah. Australia's investment culture is very different to the US one. Right. Companies don't invest in a company until you're profitable, so it almost defeats the purpose. Whereas, you know, the States has this, you know, it's actually something I commend them for. A really good investment culture. And pre Seed seed and all those funding rounds in Australia that doesn't exist unless you're, you know, the son of a fund manager.

[B]

Right.

[A]

With, you know, connections. Yeah, exactly. Right. And again, even then, it's. It's so rare. It's just so limited.

[B]

Yeah, no, that's a great point. It's tough dating an entrepreneur. I've made and lost my money twice since I've met my fiance and she's been with me both times. And yeah, she easily could have left me, man.

[A]

Yeah, man, it's, it's, it's. We went. So we had a house in Kellyville that you guys won't know where that is. It's in western Sydney. And we had like four investment properties. Just got married, went on this massive tour, lived a good life, had our first child. A month after our first child, we were packing our boxes to the house. House for sale to go move in with the in laws. Wow. Facing bankruptcy and you know, best thing that ever happened because I'll tell you right now, R2B started that day.

[B]

Damn.

[A]

Because what happened was the property market in 2018, nothing was selling. December 22, 2018, me and my, My co founder called Yusuf was sitting in my house having shisha. Stressed to the balls. Right. I don't know if you can say balls on the podcast.

[B]

You can.

[A]

Okay, cool. We were stressed hard, right. And I got some insurance money from a small boat that got hit by a car. Anyway, December 22nd, we're now really stressed out. Like six grand. I got. I gave three grand to use the 300 to me. I got to. We'll just figure it out next year because I'm trying to sell all my houses. Nothing's moving. So I went on social media and I put, you know, screw this, I'm just going to assault myself. No real estate experience. Had. I was a financial planner before then, but I had a bad investor. That guy's in jail now. But lost a crapload of money. Yeah. I went from being super wealthy, super Wealthy to like super broke anyway. And I mean like super broke anyway. Moving in with your in laws broke and then yeah, that's rock bottom for sure. Yeah. So. And they're awesome people. So that it wasn't a bad experience. But Anyway, that night, December 22nd, I put up a post why when you can, when you can buy deposit finance provided. And I put up photos from my Kellyville house. Had been up with an agent for a good three months. Not a nibble. And it was December 22nd at 11pm when Yusuf started leaving to go towards his house. An hour drive and I get one response and then a second third. We stayed up that night to 4700 inquiries.

[B]

What?

[A]

Yeah. And then we. Okay, well I'm not going to sell my house now. It makes no sense. Called a developer friend of mine in Queensland which is bit of it was a cheaper market back then and I said to him for these houses that were going for 550, 600, would you give me 50k comps commissions on them? He's like ah. I go please. He goes okay, I'll give you five for them. So December 22nd, we started from those leads. I converted a sale on December 25. So Christmas, December 26, the day after Christmas I got a client to commit to one of those places in, in Queensland. Still having no idea how we're going to do all this. Right. So I got the commission, 60k, that's 10, put it through whatever. And then January 3rd got an investor for 300k, just a friendly one of my clients from financial planning and who'd been with me forever. And then by May that year I paid them back their money times too. And wow. And then we, we started really, the first two years was just figuring out how to try to make money from it, right?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So that was the tricky part. And then there was like this acquisition pathway of buying different companies because even during that time, as you know, Covid, trying to find people to work for you was hard. Right. The job rate was just so high.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So you know, we ended up opening an office South Africa, opening office in Philippines just to get more people. And then we didn't screw this, we just have to start acquiring. And the best way to do that is have people believe in your vision and they came on. But when you talk about that, you know, loss and make, it was literally probably about a week before bankruptcy that, you know, started. Right. So it was, you need that, that real push, man. Everyone asks, you know, how'd you do it? I mean it's just necessity. Either that or don't eat.

[B]

Yeah. When your back's against the wall, you find ways.

[A]

Yeah, exactly.

[B]

You can't even think of.

[A]

Yeah. I mean. And that's. That's exact. And, you know, in that period, like, we'd lost my financial planning firm, you know, a few months before, we didn't go bankrupt, which was good. We just threw in the towel and paid off our bills between me and my brother and sister. But I had like a year. And I just tried everything, man. Like, I tried give kindly again. I tried all these different things over and over and over again. And in that year, you know, my number two, Yusuf, just stayed with us. He took stupid pay cut just to stick around because I'm big picture. He's detail.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

You can't have one without the other. And I know my. I think that's one of my biggest strengths as a entrepreneur, is knowing my weaknesses. And that is. I'm not the guy you want, you know, running the organization. I'm the one you want with the idea.

[B]

The visionary.

[A]

Yeah. The vision and the sales. I mean, I like to think I'm pretty good at getting the deal done.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

But the vision is where. Where I, you know, where the company needs me. But a vision without execution is just the dream. Right? So I need my detail guy around. So he stuck around for a year, and we tried different things. And literally just three days before Christmas, man, we started it. And then, you know, December 22, 2018, is the launch date. So every December 22, we have. We have my big company Christmas party. And then me and Yusuf go off for a nice drink and a shisha and just go, here we are.

[B]

I love it.

[A]

You gotta remember, man. You gotta remember, because you could be there again tomorrow.

[B]

Absolutely.

[A]

There's no guarantee.

[B]

You can't forget where you came from, man.

[A]

Well, I mean, that's business, right? Like, you know, that's why I said to you, I'm not going to declare the success title because, man, it's ruthless.

[B]

Oh, it is.

[A]

You screw up, man, you're back there again. And there's.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

It's the only world you could be really rich and really broke.

[B]

The next day, 100, I went from. Yeah. Similar to you. Millionaire on paper and then lost it all.

[A]

Yeah. Then just control alt F5.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Refresh that shit and go again.

[B]

Classic. Yeah. When it happened the first time, I was like, all right, I'm young. This won't happen again. Second time I was like, damn.

[A]

Well, now you build it. Because, you know Ken?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

I mean, the way I built my company, now there's nine different sub companies. So we have the construction company which operates the construction company. Real estate company operates as real estate company. Each company has got its own GM and that company's GM is bound by profit outside of the R2B client base.

[B]

Got it.

[A]

So that means at the end of the financial year for us, which is June 30, we take the balance sheet, we take the profits and profit loss statements and we go, okay, get rid of every R2B client from there. Are you still successful? Are you still profitable? Right. And that's what you're measured on. Because if something happens, these are your influences, right? You've got your regulation issues, you got your media issues, you got, you know, anything that can really happen to Headco. I still want to be able to survive with a law firm, construction company, real estate company. Right. Because now when you build it with a bit more of a mature mindset, it's like not can it go wrong, it's when can I go wrong? When will it go wrong? And you have to build that mindset now because I can't restart again. You know, I got kids at school and Mrs. But not just that, man. All my staff are shareholders. A large portion of them are.

[B]

Right.

[A]

All my key guys are, are in it with me. And you have the responsibility of all your staff. You have to feed their children and you have all your clients who now back you. So you have to take that responsibility seriously.

[B]

Absolutely.

[A]

Because you know, it's one bad decision from you that topples. Everything's over. So you have to have a bit more of a risk averse mindset now that it's built 100%.

[B]

Peter, it's been fun. We'll link all your companies below and everything. Where can people find you?

[A]

Perfect. Appreciate it, mate. So the big thing here in the States is give kindly. Of course. I don't think there's too much you can do with R2B group. So we're available on the Apple Play store and the Apple Store. On the Play Store there's an app called on the give kindly side and there's also give kindly.com G G D I V E K-I N--L Y.com so yeah, if you guys can show some love there, get us some support, get some traction going for us. If you get proof of concept with this MVP guys, you know, I'd sincerely appreciate it.

[B]

Let's do it. I'll, I'll chip in on that. So I'LL buy something tonight.

[A]

Awesome, man. It's all women's clothing, apparel. Otherwise, I'd like to see we dress in the next podcast anyway.

[B]

All right, guys, check them out. Thanks for watching.

[A]

Thank you so much, guys. Thank you.