From Homeless to 7 Figures in 4 Years... | Ken Baden | DSH #1927

Summary

Digital Social Hour: "From Homeless to 7 Figures in 4 Years... | Ken Baden"

Episode #1927 · April 23, 2026
Host: Sean Kelly
Guest: Ken Baden

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Overview

In this powerful episode, host Sean Kelly sits down with Ken Baden, a former addict and ex-felon who went from being homeless to becoming a seven-figure entrepreneur in under four years. Ken shares his raw, unfiltered journey through addiction, recovery, and personal redemption, before detailing his rise in the blue-collar sales and roofing industries. Together, Sean and Ken dissect myths about the trades, discuss the shortage in blue collar labor, and dig into actionable advice for anyone wanting to change their life circumstances—emphasizing both the human side and the business realities behind success.

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Main Discussion Points & Insights

Ken’s Early Life, Addiction, and Hitting Rock Bottom

• Ken shares openly about his younger years, getting into substance abuse after a college car accident led to a painkiller prescription ([02:26]–[05:04]).
  • “Car accident, pain pills...I was prescribed...My doctor ended up losing his license for like, over-prescribing them.” — Ken [02:26]
  • The journey from a good upbringing and being a college athlete to falling into addiction “like, I have to have these” [04:31].
• Talks about the destructive cycle of addiction, with multiple stints in rehab and the impact on his family ([06:54]).
  • “I wish I wouldn’t have put the stress on my grandparents...The nights that I spent pacing around the table where her purse was.” — Ken [07:29]
• Describes criminal behavior at the low point, including attempting to rob both stores and drug dealers ([00:00], [08:24], [09:12]):
  • “I tried to rob a store. That’s how I got the felony,” Ken admits unflinchingly [00:00], [08:24].
  • Ken ended up homeless, serving time in jail, and feeling as if his life was over ([10:02], [11:11]).

The Mindset Shift: From Desperation to Opportunity

• Ken credits his turnaround to joining a 12-step program and getting clean ([08:24]).
  • “I belong to a 12-step program. It saved my life.” — Ken [08:24]
• Emphasizes that high drive, high personality types often walk a thin line between self-destruction and high achievement; many entrepreneurs and top salespeople have similarly addictive personalities ([11:12], [11:33]):
  • “Entrepreneurs, salespeople...we’re really high personality, really high drive, right? That’s a perfect mix for, like, borderline substance abuse.” — Ken [11:12]

Getting into Sales & Building Wealth

• Describes initial forays into sales (insurance, then blue-collar)—and the cycle of success interrupted by relapse ([12:07]–[14:35])
  • “I always went back to [sales], and I always did well for a short time.” — Ken [15:39]
  • On sales’ appeal: “Your abilities are truly what dictate your salary...there’s just something about that.” [14:59]
• Sean and Ken agree that commission-only sales roles are where standout earners thrive:
  • “I only do commission only.” — Sean [15:41]
  • “If you can’t see [the potential], you probably shouldn’t be in sales.” — Ken [16:22]

The Rise of Blue-Collar Sales: Roofing as the "Hot Ticket"

• Ken explains that blue-collar sales—especially roofing—is now one of the best opportunities in the U.S. ([16:28]–[17:35]):
  • “Roofing is like the hot ticket. If there's, like, a thing in sales right now, I would say like roofing is probably it.” — Ken [17:35]
• Details stories of everyday people, including Ken’s own family members, becoming millionaires through roofing ([17:37]–[18:14]).
• Stresses that private equity is flocking to blue-collar businesses (roofing, HVAC), meaning huge opportunities for salespeople, owners, and those seeking exits ([19:19], [19:52]).

Sales Systems, Mindset, and Recruitment

• Ken’s key to success: deep product knowledge, knowing every competitor, relentless self-improvement, and learning from the very best ([24:14], [25:39]):

  • “Find somebody...that’s doing really well at it. Ask them to mentor you. Shadow. Shadow those people.” — Ken [24:14]
  • “I had a little black and white notebook. Every time I wouldn’t sell, I would write what the objection was...” — Ken [25:39]
  • “You never talk bad about another company...but you do need to know the facts so you can position yourself as to why you’re the better option.” — Ken [26:04]

• Prefers hiring people with zero sales experience—because he can mold them to his system:

  • “Only green. Only green. Only green.” — Ken [43:04]
  • “If you’re not competitive, get out of sales. You don’t belong in it.” — Ken [45:15]

Labor Market Realities & Cultural Shifts in Trades

• In-depth discussion on the U.S. blue-collar labor shortage and the stigmatization of trades vs. college ([26:46]–[29:28]):
  • “Everyone was like, oh, if you go [to trade school], you’re a loser... and now all the people that went to college, AI is replacing their jobs.” — Sean [26:53], [27:06]
  • “The state of blue collar industry is precarious... it’s really bad. No one wants to do it.” — Ken [27:10]
• Points out the demographic reality that most in the labor force are aging out—while labor in some trades is overwhelmingly filled by Hispanic workers ([29:28]–[32:47]).
  • Honest takes on immigration, border enforcement, and the practical consequences for the U.S. construction sector ([29:30]–[36:12]).

The Future: AI, Recruiting, and the Trades

• Both discuss how AI is affecting white-collar work, while also starting to benefit blue-collar trades in areas like scheduling, lead generation, and efficiency ([38:28]–[42:54]):
  • “AI for us isn’t a bad thing, right? AI for us means less overhead, more speed to lead.” — Ken [40:54]
  • “None of [my blue-collar contractors] are using AI. I think you could...AI is amazing. I send 2,000 emails every single day.” — Sean [42:02]

Personal & Leadership Lessons

• Candid talk on the pitfalls of working with friends/family and the importance of boundaries ([48:28]–[56:01]):
  • “I made the mistake...of trying to, like, sponsor everybody...that was a very big mistake because now I’m attaching myself emotionally to you.” — Ken [48:48]
  • On nepotism: “You should be trying harder...because you set the standard. People know...the expectations are higher for you, and I have to be harder on you.” — Ken [50:34]
• Navigating work/life boundaries, especially with his wife as a business partner ([51:47]–[56:00]):
  • “Now my wife does...she’s home now [with our daughter]. So [for the company’s] general counsel, they’re just blowing her up. We actually were just talking about...we got to create some boundaries.” — Ken [53:41]

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “I went from never having been to rehab to three rehabs in a year...I went from college graduate to felon.” — Ken [05:44]
• “I encourage anybody that’s been in that position to seek out a 12-step program appropriate for you. But for me, you know, I found one that worked.” — Ken [08:24]
• “Your skill set can directly impact...there’s no limit on hours...I always went back to [sales].” — Ken [15:39]
• “You really have to be able to sell it on one call. Not because you’re predatory. Because statistically speaking, your chances [of closing] become 2% once you leave.” — Ken [21:36]
• “If you want to make money...and you want to sell, I would suggest blue-collar trades being a very viable opportunity.” — Ken [38:39]
• “[For] young men and women in America...blue collar is amazing...if you’re really good and skilled with your hands, your job is protected.” — Ken [33:03]
• “I hire only people with no experience...because if it’s not our habits, it’s bad habits.” — Ken [43:06]
• “I can’t be responsible for you doing that [recovery]...that drove me crazy at first because I cared about you on a level that was more than work.” — Ken [50:23]

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Key Timestamps

• Ken’s Background & Addiction: [00:00]–[11:11]
• Turning Point & Recovery: [08:24]
• Sales Career Begins: [12:07]–[15:39]
• Roofing and Blue-collar Sales Boom: [16:28]–[18:14]
• Sales Mindset & Skill Development: [24:14]–[26:04]
• Trade School vs. College & Labor Crisis: [26:46]–[34:07]
• Immigrant Labor Reality: [29:28]–[36:12]
• AI’s Role in Blue Collar: [38:28]–[42:54]
• Recruiting and Training the Next Generation: [43:04], [45:15]
• Boundaries in Family Business: [48:28]–[56:01]

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Actionable Advice

• For Aspiring Salespeople or Entrepreneurs:
  • Find and shadow top producers at your company. “Who’s the best guy? Watch them.” [24:14]
  • Do the “1%” things—document objections, know competitors, learn every aspect of the industry. [25:39]
• If You’re Homeless or Struggling:
  • Seek out community (12-step programs, mentors) and start wherever you can—use whatever skills you have to sell, then iterate and improve. [08:24], [12:07]
• Want to Make Serious Money Fast:
  • Learn sales, especially commission-based, in high-growth blue-collar sectors like roofing.
  • If you’re not “high D/high I” (action-oriented/people person), consider trade work itself—strong demand, high wages, job security. [33:03]

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Final Thoughts

This episode stands as a testament to the immense resilience required to transform a life seemingly destined for tragedy—and the pragmatic, often controversial, truths of today’s business landscape. Ken’s story is both inspiration and instruction: the right mindset, sales discipline, and willingness to work in "uncool" industries can offer not only recovery, but real wealth and purpose.

Learn more about Ken:

• IG: @official.kenbaden
• Podcast: The Kitchen Table with Ken Baden
• Consulting: badenconsulting.net

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For more raw conversations with high performers and disruptors, make sure to catch future episodes of Digital Social Hour.

Transcript

[A]

I was robbing dealers. I was afraid to go in certain parts of different hoods because I already knew, like, this guy probably wants to kill me. That guy probably wants to kill me. Like, you know, I did. I tried to rob a store. That's how I got the felony. Like, we're really high personality, really high drive, man. It's a perfect mix for like borderline substance abuse.

[B]

Addictive personality.

[A]

Yes. Like, fast money, fast. This fast stuff. Like, let's go, go, go, go.

[B]

All right, guys, Got Ken on the show wearing the best suit I think I've seen on the show.

[A]

I. Are you serious?

[B]

Yeah. Anything custom to me is. Is baller.

[A]

Well, I'm actually like fidgety because this is from. I'm gonna shout him out because he does all the NFL stuff and I'm not NFL quality at all, but I live close to Tom from gents playbook. I think you said you're having them on, right?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So he does all the NFL, mlb, NHL guys and keeps them looking fresh. But he also specializes in body types. Like, you've got an. About you tall. You know what I mean? I'm tall and thin, but I gained 30 pounds when my wife was pregnant. So like I went and saw him when I was 30 pounds heavier. This is post that. So I'm like. And he's texting me, like, if you're wearing it without a suit tie, you got to tuck this in. You got to unbutton that. You got to do all this. So he's trying to class me up a little bit.

[B]

I've always had to order custom when it comes to suits. Cuz like you, I'm 66, but I'm 190, so I'm skinny. So I remember for prom and for weddings, I always had to get customers.

[A]

Gents paybook dude. Yeah, he specializes. I mean, think of the average specimen that he sees from the NFL. And I come and see him, he's

[B]

like, yeah, they're freaks. I got 6, 8, 4 body fat.

[A]

And they have what you call your drop down. Right? So from your shoulders to your waist, I actually have a really wide drop. So like my. I've got. I'm built like Johnny Bravo, the cartoon. Not in a cool way, but like it was a cool cartoon.

[B]

Let's dive in your story though, bro, because you got a crazy story. From homeless to seven figures, basically. Let's. Let's start from the beginning, I guess.

[A]

Well, I was born. I'm just kidding. I. I would say that the most. I don't want to make this all about that, but it is pertinent. And I was just talking to the young lady that was dropping me off here. Like, the reason I bring that up is, one, it's my life story, but two, I would be remiss if I didn't mention, like, the stuff that I went through. And then all I showed was like, look at this cool car. Look at this success. When the reality was like, nine years ago almost. It'll be nine years ago in August. I was literally sleeping outside, you know, and that wasn't even the first time, dude.

[B]

Wow.

[A]

You know what I mean? Like, so car accident, pain pills, and I didn't come up doing drugs or anything like that. I was raised very well.

[B]

Yeah, you were an athlete?

[A]

Yeah, I mean, I had even then. I mean, my dad was military, my mom. I had great parents. I had great values. My brother doesn't do any knucklehead stuff like that. Like, I just. I didn't even know what drugs outside. A little bit of weed was. Yeah, right. And so, like, getting into that car accident, you know, I was prescribed. You ever seen those shows, like painkiller and all those shows that got real popular recently? I would. I just could have been a. A character on that show. So I was like the good kid, relatively speaking, that gets into a car accident, then gets prescribed these things. My doctor ended up losing his license for like, over prescribing them, so.

[B]

So you got rear ended and then you just got put on all these painkillers.

[A]

I actually wrecked my car by just going off the side of the road. Like, the joke is I was looking at my hair. Really, dude. I just, like, just glanced away and then I was in a tree, so.

[B]

Holy crap. How fast are you going?

[A]

About 40 miles an hour. Neither me nor my buddy had my. Our seat belts on, so he broke his neck. Shit. And honestly, dude, both of us ended up on painkillers. And. And you know, Mike, if you're listening to this dude, like, I think he's still out there, like, out there in the streets.

[B]

Holy.

[A]

Yeah. But he never got it back together, so, like, wow, that's the grip that this thing can have on you, man. And if you don't know what's going on, I didn't. I didn't know what these things were. I remember my uncle warning me, like, hey, dude, those are addictive. You know, you hear it, but you

[B]

never actually realize it until you're on it. Right?

[A]

Especially back then, dude. Like, no one knew, like, back then it was still, like, when they were Being prescribed, like Skittles, Like, I didn't know. I knew that they were fun. You know what I mean? I'm just being honest and like, they made me feel good and I was being prescribed them. So, like, what could possibly be wrong?

[B]

And a lot of, A lot of you played football. A lot of football players take them.

[A]

Yeah. Yeah. I mean, you know, I played early on. I think you give me a lot more credit for my athletic career than I. Than I deserve. So I think my buddies here is my dude. But, you know, I did play football and hockey when I was little. But the bottom line is car accident, painkillers. I was in college at the time. I barely graduated college. Excuse me. And long story short, by the senior year of college, it was affecting me and impacting me in a way that was like, I have to have these. I, you know, I didn't rob, cheat, or steal anybody because I was being prescribed them. But ultimately the way that goes is like, you're. You're kind of okay. But it's your, your whole thing that you have to have because on a physiological level, I don't expect you to understand this, but like, if you took them for, for a year or three years like I did, bro, you're going to be. Physically, your body changes.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Like it craves it. Like it craves oxygen.

[B]

So I had a Xanax addiction.

[A]

Did you really?

[B]

In college? Well, I got prescribed it similar to you.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I was having panic attacks, anxiety attacks. They prescribed it. Once you start taking it, you don't want to stop.

[A]

Panic attacks and anxiety attacks. And now you speak for a living.

[B]

Yeah. Crazy. I had a huge public speaking fear, third eye, actually.

[A]

It's funny because I'm like. Now I'm like the sales guy and like, that's all I do. And I'm like, dude, I couldn't get in front of a group in class without like drinking a flask or something.

[B]

Yeah. I used to have to take a Xanax.

[A]

Yeah, well, that helped me too. Not the Xanax, but the, the opiates for me were my Xanax. Right. And so a lot of people get done hooked on both. And you may or may not know this, but the Xanax is a benzo. Just like alcohol. They're the only two. The withdrawals can kill you.

[B]

Like, I actually. I had a seizure.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

From withdrawal. So did my dad.

[A]

That's what it could be.

[B]

Yeah. They don't tell you that though.

[A]

They don't tell you any of this stuff. So I didn't know any of it. My dad got a hold of my like, rap sheet of I was still under his insurance and he's like, bro, you either have an addiction or you're selling these. And at the time I was under fraternity, so it was actually both. But long story short, dude, the second that my doctor got cut off, I had to pursue them in other means. And you find who you need to find. And by the end of that year, I went for. From miraculously a college graduate, begging my like, professors to graduate me, which I had done enough in the beginning to get there, but. And I went from that to felon, dude. I went from graduating college and not even a year later, I was a felon. So I was like, well, that, well, that sucks. I kind of wipes that out. You know what I mean? I went from never having been to rehab to three rehabs in a year. Just, you know, you go the first time you learn some stuff and you stop this one thing and then you think you can control it and then you go again and you know, my poor family, that's the part that sucks, dude. Like, for me, I don't regret any of this, right? I don't know how you feel about yours, but look where you're at now.

[B]

I don't regret the past, right?

[A]

Like, it built who you are, right? I mean, dude, look at you now, right? Like, you literally speak for a living. You've had all this success. Same thing. Like it cultivates, it builds character and it refines you. Like, we become who we are, forged through that fire, right? Just like steel is created. Like if you handle that, you get through it, you become just a far better version. Some people don't make it through. That's the terrible reality. But the ones that do are usually way better for it. That's how I feel.

[B]

I mean, There's a reason 80% of millionaires are self made, dude.

[A]

And how many of them have stories like ours? So some kind of trauma, some kind of something.

[B]

Almost all of them.

[A]

Yeah, right? There's like something like, would you go through your addiction something? Right? Like, so for me, I don't regret it. I just, you know, the families, your family, I'm sure the worry, you know, everything that they go through is a part that I would like to have not had happen. Because, like, that sucks, right? Like, I wish I wouldn't have put the stress on my grandparents. I wish I wouldn't have stolen from my grandparents, my grandmother. The nights that I spent pacing around the, you know, the, the, the table where her purse was like eating myself.

[B]

I was a big stealer as a kid too.

[A]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, dude. And you know better and you hate yourself for it. And like that wasn't what I did normally. But once that takes a hold of you, you're like, I have to have this. Yeah, I have to. And the people that love me the most are going to get hurt the most because they're, they're taking me in. And ultimately I work with a lot of people in recovery now as you know, I sponsor man, I belong to a 12 step program. It's anonymous, so I won't, I won't say it out of respect for that, but it's helped. It saved my life.

[B]

Wow.

[A]

And I encourage anybody that's been in that position to seek out a 12 step program appropriate for you. But for me, you know, I found one that worked. And ultimately, you know, back then that's what happened. And I ended up again. Homeless felon. I tried to rob a store. I've robbed drug dealers. I've got all kinds of crazy stories I could give you. But I'd like you know that I only paint that context. So there is context in that. Like when I get to talking to like, oh man, that's a really cool suit that you got from this gents playbook that dresses like. I didn't NFL people. I didn't start there, brother. Like I was sleeping outside. I was robbing dealers. I was afraid to go in certain parts of different hoods because I already knew. Like this guy probably wants to kill me. That guy probably wants to get me. Like, you know I did. I tried to rob a store. That's how I got the felony.

[B]

Was it a liquor store?

[A]

We're going to go ahead and talk about it because it was. I went, I went in for context because I didn't think this out. I went into Giant. I was supposed to receive a money order. I'm out of my mind. I'm sick because I don't have what I need know about that. I think it's coming. Mommy's sending me something from Florida. Cuz she's the last bridge I haven't burnt. And she figures it out and she's like, can't do it. You know what, you're doing it. So I'm like, I'm out of my mind. I'm about to rob this store. It was a liquor store. However, I was in the hood so I already knew I didn't actually have a gun. Well, if I go in there and I tell them I got a gun. Give me all your stuff. They got a gun. So it's the hood. I'm just going to get shot, and I'm not going to get high. So I went to the store in between, which was a. A Hallmark store, which probably had what, like 60 bucks? You know what I mean?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And I went in there and I did my thing, and the lady just freaked out. And I didn't get anything.

[B]

I just.

[A]

As my discovery papers say, they observed Mr. Baden casually walk away. So I'm just like, all right, well, you know, sorry. Psych. So they didn't think that was very funny, so they gave me a felony. They gave me 10 years also. But 18 months, they. So I served 18 months. I served a year and like two months or weeks. I think it was two weeks. But the judge was like, bro, you know better. You got a college degree. You're gonna sit there and county not. And you have to understand, I wanted to go to prison because I would have been out earlier and I would have been in pre release. Not because I'm tough, not because anything. But I just wanted the more to get more freedoms there. Right? So anyhow, the long story short is I don't regret any of that. But for context and purposes, I know what it feels like to be homeless. I know what it feels like to think my life is over. When I sat there, August 23rd of 2017, literally just in a baseball field, here I am again. Because I had been homeless. And at that time back then, that was my first stint in homelessness in Salisbury, Maryland. And I got locked up. I got out, went back out thinking I could just drink, and I don't do anything anymore, right. And so I had to, like, burn it all down.

[B]

We're.

[A]

I feel like the types like us, right, entrepreneurs, salespeople, are very similar, right? Like, we have a very specific disc profile. I'm big on disc, right? Personality profile. Like, we're really high personality, really high drive, right? And that's a perfect mix for like, borderline substance abuse. You know what I mean? And so, like, it is what it is.

[B]

Addictive personality.

[A]

Yes. Yeah, yeah. Like fast money, fast. This fast stuff. Like, let's go, go, go, go, go. Most people don't understand that, right? Throw caution to the wind. Let's go. But if you can harness that and you realize what that really is, you can do a lot with there.

[B]

Thanks for sharing that.

[A]

I found myself homeless, but ultimately, man, since then, things have obviously changed. So hopefully that paints the context.

[B]

I want to dive into Actionable steps for people that are struggling, homeless or you know, living paycheck to paycheck right now. So when you were starting off in entrepreneurship, you got involved in sales, right? How did you get that first job and what was it?

[A]

Well, throughout the whole time I was in sales, right. So I started selling insurance. Ironically, given what I do now, you know, I'm a big, I don't know how much you know about like the roofing industry. Like that's like the, the thing right now.

[B]

High tickets.

[A]

There's. Yeah, there's always a sales thing, right? Whether it's solar.

[B]

I remember when solar was popping and

[A]

it was the thing. And now roofing is the thing, right? Well, a big part of roofing is dealing with insurance restoration companies or insurance carriers. And then there's like traditional retail roofing which is like setting an appointment and selling it. The two are very different. Most of what you see is probably the guys doing the insurance stuff because it's more hustle driven numbers, right. That's going to be more of a comp to solar, right? So like Texas, Minnesota, Colorado, you know, places with hail and weather, they're great for that. And there's some guys that have made like flying around private jets, made life changing money doing that and then seeing private equity now I didn't start there, I started selling insurance. I fell into that because I've always been that person like yourself, that while I didn't like public speaking, I always talk to everybody. One of my buddy's dads was like, oh, you're gonna be perfect. And I used to say, we used to always say like, what's up good looking? And I need you to come work for me. Right? And he taught me a whole lot. But moreover, Dave, who was the State Farm agent, Mr. Whitaker, like dude, he had everything I wanted. He had like the cool car, the cool suv, got a new one every year. His wife always drove a white Mercedes. New one every year, right? And like just like safe off every day and what? State Farm and we don't.

[B]

You can make money like that? A State Farm?

[A]

Apparently, bro. Wow. I don't know anymore. But like these dudes, honestly? Yes.

[B]

I didn't.

[A]

Restoration agents.

[B]

I thought State Farm was salary.

[A]

No, no, the agents are commissioned. They're, they're. It's like a franchise. Okay. They pay all their people and so I was in position to be potentially an agent, but I screwed that all up. That was like right in the midst of my stuff. And so what I ultimately had was like spells of sobriety. And in those spells of sobriety, I fell into sales. I would do really, really good for a little bit. And honestly, what I typically did was I focus on selling. And I can't be messing with that stuff. I got to go and like, be a solar guy now, a roofing guy now. Whatever it was, whatever the hot thing was, I jumped into it. I'd have great short term success. I prove I could do it. I saw the hell out of myself. To you. If you were the guy that was like recruiting me, yeah, I do really good for a couple of months, make a lot of money and then start screwing up. And then you'd be like, what the hell happened to this guy? I thought you were going to be like the man. And so I did that over and over and over and over and over

[B]

because of drugs or. Yeah, okay.

[A]

Yeah, that's. This was like all during that. So I've given you the front. Then there's like, during, right. Like sales success, destroy it. Sales success, destroy it, right? Build it up, tear it down. Like, but with sales, what I love about sales. And so like, I come back from getting in trouble, right? Build my life back up. And I go into blue collar work. I do the labor work, right. Because I wanted security.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So I go into a union or I do something like that. My brother's in the union in dc, One of the unions, electricians union. And I would do that for a few weeks, bro. And then I'd be like, I can only work so many hours. I can only do so much. Whereas in sales, like, you're measured by your actual. Your abilities are truly what dictate your salary. Right. And while it's commission only, often, like, there's just something about that dude where it's like a person like me and you were drawn to that. And like, when you realize, like, my skill set can directly impact. There's no limit on hours or capital and career or, excuse me, capital, which you can make. I just couldn't escape it. So I always went back to it and I always did well for a short time.

[B]

I love commission only, dude.

[A]

Yeah, I only.

[B]

I. I only do commission only.

[A]

Yeah, so me too. But the average person is like, oh, my God, that's a little bit. I don't know, it's like, well, dude, you probably shouldn't do it. You know what I mean? Because you're probably not built for it. If I look at your profile, high S and high C on the disc profile, those folks are all introverted, very play it safe type individuals and that's okay, dude. There's a place for you too. Like, you probably shouldn't do sales.

[B]

Yeah. There's a company that'll take you, but not me when I hire people. So my closers are commission only. The people that run my Facebook ads commission only because the incentives are aligned. Right. If you're on a payroll and you're running Facebook ads for someone getting a retainer, you don't give a about their.

[A]

Oh, bro, I want you tied to the results. I want you to care the way I care, man.

[B]

Exactly.

[A]

You know, and you can make a ton of money, but, like, if you can't see it again, you probably shouldn't be in sales.

[B]

Yeah, but it's good. You got that blue collar experience, because now it's hot, right? Blue collar is in right now with

[A]

blue collar is in for sales for sure. You know, if this is a segue into what I think, I mean, like, blue collar and for sales is definitely the thing. For sales, like, roofing is like. And solar is not. It's the big, beautiful bill definitely nicks that in a sense. Right. The big thing with solar was a lot of guys sold under the pretense of like, hey, I'm gonna get you this. This 30 or whatever 36 back tax credit. Tax credit's gone. Right. And now the whole market has to change. Right. They've got a lower. Everything was built around that. That's the other problem is everything in an industry was built around that tax credit. So, like, they're making some moves. But honestly, man, I don't see it being the same. Currently, I don't do it anymore. That's just me. I focus on roofing. I have a remodeling company myself. I've been doing it for years. You know, I built a couple of them at this point, along with a partner partnership. Didn't work out great. That's okay. I got a lot of experience out of that. But roofing is, like, the hot ticket. You know, if there's, like, a. A thing in sales right now, I would say, like, roofing is probably it.

[B]

I've seen people become millionaires off roofing, dude.

[A]

Bro.

[B]

My uncle. My uncle grew up in a town you've never heard of called Quakertown in Pennsylvania.

[A]

I have heard.

[B]

Oh, you have heard of it by border Pennsylvania, dude, you're, like, the first person I've ever.

[A]

Because I'm from Maryland, so, like. And we're going into Pennsylvania now. So, like, you, York, Quakertown.

[B]

Well, you know, it's a small town, though.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

And he started. So he worked at the post office his whole life was. I don't know what he was making, but he started a roofing company, ended up making millions and selling it to.

[A]

Is still out there.

[B]

No.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

He sold it to private equity. Now he's retired somewhere.

[A]

Dude, I got to talk to him.

[B]

But he didn't know about roofing. He worked at the post office his whole life, and I saw him become a multi millionaire from roofing.

[A]

There's a lot, though.

[B]

I'd love to.

[A]

Yeah. Because I'm getting into the market and I think that would be great to talk to him.

[B]

And that's a town of a couple thousand people. Dude. Quaker.

[A]

Well, what you just said, the play, right, like, now you can get into. If you're a salesperson, you want to make a lot of money, you can definitely do that in sales and roofing. You could do that in sales and anything blue collar. But definitely roofing is a big one. But the play as an entrepreneur build exit PE has been just like PE did a few years ago with like H vac, if you're familiar. Yeah. Like, now it's like roofing, roofing, roofing. I think what they've seen is like, blue collar trades. Like with COVID they saw like, those things don't stop, Right. You got AI coming in, and AI is an awesome tool, and we can use that. But I don't see that jeopardizing what we do. Like, it is other things. And so I think the value is shifting now. You know, if you watch in the market and you watch the people that have the money, what are they investing? And they're investing in blue collar services. And roofing right now seems to be the hot ticket. So for me and a lot of other entrepreneurs, you know, I have mentors. Like, I don't know if you know, you, you, You've heard of him, but he's kind of like. He's getting a TV show, dude. Like, one of my mentors, Kurt Lennington, sold in Texas. And dude, the guy's like the og, right? Yeah, he's. He's. He's all over that name now. He's. Yeah, he's a rock star. To me, he's like the goat, right? He kind of said it. And, you know, we all belong to a bunch of business groups. You know, that's how people like us get hooked up. And, you know, he hasn't come on my podcast, by the way, Kurt, that's calling him out. I'm gonna call him out. But. But at any Rate I watched him exit and a lot of us were like, holy crap, dude. Like Kurt just made life changing money. And then he does it again. Right. Because initial exit, then your second exit, the column turns.

[B]

Yep.

[A]

And a lot of companies since then. My buddy Brandon J. Same thing. I watched him go from like where we are currently to the next year, blow it up in a good way, gone exit, flying around on private jets. You'd think he was you or someone else. Right. Like so the rock stars are certainly currently, in my opinion, in the roofing space and ebbs and flows, bro. When I started in 08, I was selling Windows. Windows was the hot ticket. So you got to have your finger on the pulse of what's hot. But moreover is that ability to sell. And that to me is like, that's what you cultivate.

[B]

That's the most important skill.

[A]

100%, dude. There's nothing in my opinion more valuable. Like I consult, you know what I, what I come on shows like this for, you know what I mean? I have a remodeling company, but with my company, Baden Consulting, like a big part of what I do is I preach and teach. Not just sales systems. I work in coach other entrepreneurs. Right. Because I built several other companies and, and all of them so far have been successful, thank God. But I can only teach what I know. A. Right. So if you've already sold or something like that and you're looking for something I can't offer, I can't help you. Right. But I, I can also be very selective with whom I choose to work with because I have my own company. Yep. You know, I've been doing things recently on the weekends with other blue collar companies that are in like different phases. They can't afford the bigger ticket because we'll come into an insurance restoration company or any company that wants to learn a selling system and I'll bring my team and we'll put that in your this in 90 days if you have the capital for it. But if you don't, you can come out, fly out to my office, we'll work together for a weekend. I'll give you a crash course on the selling system, some actionable stuff you can take because that's the stuff that's going to help you make money right away if you learn the ability to sell and put something in what I call a one call close format, which is why my podcast is called the Kitchen Table. That's where business gets done. Like that is something you can never lose 100%, you know what I mean?

[B]

You could transfer it to any industry, dude.

[A]

And. And you can sell windows, you can sell siding, you can sell roofing, you can sell whatever. But now you have that ability to approach somebody as long as they have a problem. And you can offer a solution. If you don't have any business selling them anything that you shouldn't be there. Yeah, but if they have a problem, you have a product to offer them a solution. You really have to be able to sell it on one call. Not because you're predatory. Because statistically speaking, your chances become 2% effectively once you leave the home. And for varying reasons. Right. People get other estimates. You know, emotion drives sales, right? The emotion's high with me and you. I like the hell out of you, dude. But you just didn't ask the right questions or ask for the sale. Now you leave and I see the next guy. I like the hell out of him too. Right? And I see five other guys. Now I have nothing but numbers in front of me. I don't kind of remember what you said. Kind of remember what you said. It's just your best statistical probability of selling is right then and there. So approach it like that. And the skill set to do that is invaluable. On the insurance restoration side, that gets lost a lot because it's so easy. It's a high volume. And this is for roofing specific. But if you're a hustler, man, you can make a ton of money. If you're in a state where hail comes and these got 5 inch hail, now there's hail. Chicago just got hit with five inches. Yeah, hail's crazy right now.

[B]

I know people fly out to chase

[A]

these storms and they make a lot of money.

[B]

A lot.

[A]

And all they're doing is you. If you don't know I'm talking like as a sales rep, you can make. There's a gentleman who did 18 million gross in Minnesota. 18 million. That's a great revenue for an office. As an office in its entirety. Did it one year because he had. He had done the things before, right? He had saturated his market. He had sponsored every team or the company did. Hale comes through and he's perfectly positioned to be the guy. He works son up to sun down him and his wife and his daughter. So there's three of them, but that's how you do a number like that. And that guy made several million dollars that year personally, just like a business would have. So, like there's a lot of money to be made. You can make seven figures in roofing for sure. I did it from the entrepreneur standpoint, you know, and I went from homeless, like you said. In the first four years, I had seven figures in the bank account, right? And like, that took one company being built and then not failing, but the partnership fading to creating another company, surpassing that company, and in finding that, you know, in the bank account, you know, a couple short years later. So in that four years, I built two companies, right. Both to success and was able to do that. But that's the power of sales, dude. It's. There's nothing like it.

[B]

How did you learn sales? Because I know people have different coaches, mentors. What do you think the most efficient way is for someone watching this to learn sales?

[A]

First things first. Align yourself with the best. Like, if you get into it, you want to get into it, you've never done it. Go to the place you want to work, do all your research, read all the books, do all the things by all means like, that are available to you outside of that place. But, like, find somebody either beforehand or while you're there, that's doing really well at it. Ask them to mentor you. Shadow. Shadow those people. Right? Like, whenever I went anywhere, I'd be like, who's the best guy?

[B]

Smart. And I would just shout, no one does that, dude. That's such a simple thing.

[A]

But, yeah, 100, man. And. And I did that in solar. I did that in sales for windows. I did that with roofing. I just wanted to find who's the best. I want to watch them. And then I would learn from them. And then I'd read the books. I'd. No one had to tell me to do the 1% stuff. You know what I mean?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Like, the 1% stuff's like, okay, I got in the house tonight and I got beat because the homeowner said no because they asked me about, well, what do you know about this product that this guy showed me? And I didn't know I knew my product because I was taught my product, but the place didn't teach me this product. And this product. I have to do that. I have to know enough to know, like, I got an objection. I didn't know it. And that's not going to happen twice. Smart, right? So I'm going to learn what that is. I had a little black and white notebook. Every time I wouldn't sell, I would write what the objection was. And I would like. Either I would go through the process that I do everything in the process that I was taught. If I did, then I would write down what the objection Was. And if it was something like, I just didn't know this, then I would figure out what the answer to this was.

[B]

Brilliant.

[A]

Right. And then I wouldn't happen again. Right. Like, I made sure I knew I Google, like, who is in this area I'm selling in tomorrow? What companies? What do they sell? What are the warranties for those products? Right. I wasn't going to get caught slipping twice, right? And so, like, that's the 1% stuff that I can teach you now. But some of it's just like, you got to have that or you don't, brother. You know what I mean? Like, if you want to be the best, you've got to think outside the box.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And you've got to do what the best do.

[B]

So know your competition.

[A]

100 if you don't, if all you know is what you offer, how can you then politely and professionally position yourself? Like, that's the other thing. You never talk bad about another company. Right. But you do need to know the facts about that company so you can position yourself against them as to why you're the better option. Right. And so 100 know your competition.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

I'm gonna take this jacket.

[B]

Go ahead.

[A]

You see me, bro, I'm baking. I was telling you, I'm like, I'm good. Put the jacket on. Like, it is like 78 warm. Gets kind of hot in these studios.

[B]

He's spitting too much fire, guys. It's funny how it ebbs and flows, like you said. When I was growing up in Bridgewater, New Jersey, there was a trade center school where we grew up. Everyone made fun of you for going there.

[A]

Yeah, like Votech or something like that.

[B]

How'd you know that?

[A]

We had one too, bro.

[B]

Oh, you did?

[A]

We had one too. Look at us becoming best friends. Sean Kelly Kinb, best pal.

[B]

So, yeah, everyone was like, oh, if you go there, you're a loser. You're never going to make a living. You're never going to become successful. You got to go to college and get a degree. That was the mindset growing up. And now problem. Look how the tables have turned.

[A]

That's the problem. Yes, it was. And look what happened.

[B]

And now all the people that went to college to get degrees, AI is replacing their jobs. Graphic.

[A]

AI is going to take your job. I mean, I'm trying to be morbid, but yeah, AI is positioned to do that. But moreover, that's the problem. Like, we were just talking about this with the blue collar industry. The state of blue collar industry is precarious, to say the least. It's really bad. Like no one wants to do it, right? And like, to your point, when we were coming up, you did one or the other. You went to college, you went to a trade. And the trade was like, dude, when I graduated college, I remember looking at my buddies that went into a trade, had a house, had a family, had building, a retirement. I'm like, damn, did I make the right move? Not when I got good at sales. Like, I caught up real quick. Yeah, but like there isn't that anymore, right? I was telling you this. So like with the unions, for example, right? The unions in Washington D.C. the D.C. metro area, one of the biggest, most cosmopolitan works everywhere. We're like the AI hub for data centers now, right? All the AI data centers are coming there. The unions that build these things, they have what's called a bench. And on that bench there usually sits lots of folks waiting for work, right? Lots of folks that have gone through the school. You're talking about not necessarily VO Tech, but that training school, it's like a college you go to four years. At the end of that four years though, you're promised to make 60, 70 bucks an hour, right? Like pension, all these things. Well, now on those, on those benches, it sits zero people. There used to be hundreds, if not like I think there was 1500 on the local 26, which is the electricians union here and DC. I talked to my brother before I got there. None. There's none.

[B]

Wow.

[A]

There's none. There's no one waiting to be put to it with a company.

[B]

Holy crap.

[A]

Same thing with the 602H vac, probably the same thing with the elevator guys, which is like, these are the most sought after the unions. Like, what are we going to do with our infrastructure? What are we going to do in the country when, like, there's no one to put these things up, right? Like, we've got a very real problem that needs to be at least talked about. And a lot of folks are uncomfortable talking about it because then it segues into, well, who is currently doing it? And you know, for the unions, like I'm talking about, it's the baby boomers, it's guys like us and then no one, right? And then post, you know, more. The less desirable. You know, like I said, the less desirable, but just the less popular, right? The carpenters union, the drywall union. That's a largely Hispanic group.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

It just is what it is.

[B]

They're willing to do the work.

[A]

That is a fact and is not debatable. You can look at the numbers. Do that yourself. It's, that's a fact. They're willing to do the work. So we have to as a country, in my opinion, like, I'm a huge advocate for this. Like, we've got to do better at like promoting like brother. A skill set can be sent to. You could write your own check. Like, these skills you're not going to worry about AI right. I have friends that can do, you know, bathrooms and they're artists with their work and they can write their own check, but they don't have anyone to train. Right. And if the folks that are currently doing it are Hispanic, roofing work, siding work, exteriors, landscaping, drywall, carpentry, and then we find ourselves looking down the barrel of things like we were dealing with recently. And again, these are facts. I'm not offering an opinion. I'm not trying to be political, believe you me. I own a business. I don't want controversy. However, I do need to speak on the fact that like we were seeing locally, this is just locally, this is what we were seeing. Like guys that were in work trucks that were like unmarked and they're Hispanic and they're being like. There were, there was a, a checkpoint over the Bay Bridge the other day. Like, a checkpoint. It was like a month ago, but that's that, you know. And what are we looking for? Are we looking for criminals? They just grabbed everybody up. They did release a couple of the guys that were all right. There was like one that didn't have stuff, but like, damn, are we really looking for, like, are we. Is that what we're looking? I mean, maybe they really are looking for criminals. But what I can tell you is it ends up scaring the hell out of the guys that are doing the work. And what I'm seeing a lot of too is like, well, yeah, he has this thing, but maybe he missed his last update. Like, and I'm not making excuses for that man, like, you got to do something about that. But what I am saying is we have to have a conversation about, like, well, what are we going to do? Right? Like, we got to do something. If that's all there is, if that's all there is is a larger Hispanic group. And if, if possibly, perhaps we misunderstand. We miss understood quite how many were not up to snuff on their paperwork. Well then what? Yeah, right. Like if they all get booted out of here, there's already a huge labor shortage. A the long term solution is we've got to get the young men and women in America like, back into, like, hey, man, this is an awesome career path and shift. That mindset that we talked about that happened when we were. And then that just destroyed that. Right? Like, but by that, I mean computers, computers, computers, computers. It's got to come back. The pendulum's got to swing back, and it has to. What I don't want to see is, like, we just have this abrupt shortage of, like, well, we can't build anything, man. Like, it's going to drive up costs. It's going to cause a huge labor shortage. We already have all these problems with costs and everything going on, so it's just something we got to talk about. Yeah, we gotta fix it. You know, Trump just said the other day, like, look, man, you all gotta chill out with this. We're not trying to find the. Your gardener. We're trying to get the criminals. Right? What we've experienced, at least in the DMV currently is like, it was kind of seeming like, is that. Is that the case? You know what I mean? Like, it's just. It's just what was experienced. Right? Like, and I can't. He may not even know that. Right? Like, it may be just different towns, like, trying to do what they think is right. But it's like, hey, okay, we need to have a conversation about, like, who do you think then is going to come back? Do you think there's, like, you know, like, we're. It's not a wage thing. Like, people have a lot of misconceptions about this.

[B]

Yeah, I see both sides of it, dude.

[A]

100. Me too. Right? Like, the biggest picture is we got to get some way somehow Americans back in and, like, hey, man, like, blue collar is amazing, right? You can sell and make a ton, but, like, we got to be able to deliver on the labor as well.

[B]

I think it's the easiest way to make six figures these days.

[A]

100. Dude, if you're not a me or you and you don't like that, you're not high D, high I, high snc, dude, write your own check. If you're really good and skilled with your hands, your job is protected. And you could. I run. I ran the numbers because people are like, oh, well, you know, if you're. If you're hiring folks that evidently may or may not be legal, and again, we never would do that. Of course, we only hire folks that are. But if. If we hire a company and we do our due diligence and we do everything we're supposed to, and that company is all up to snuff. I don't. Then know what employee number 17 on that company does or doesn't have? You know what I mean? Yeah. Like, so if they're perhaps dishonest or confused. I don't know. Right. Like, and incorrect and that becomes more than we thought. Again, we have a problem. Right. Because there is no one else. So, like, it's something at least worth exploring. Like, well, what are we going to do then? Yeah. Right. Like, if we don't have them and we already have a labor shortage, like, people think, like, well, oh, you're. It's because you're. You're looking for cheap labor, brother. Our average cost per hour is 60 to $80 an hour. 60 to $80.

[B]

That's way higher than I thought, dude.

[A]

Well, a, they're. Do you think they're. Because they're not dumb. They know there's no one else. There's no one else. So, like, they know what's up. They're like, okay, get someone else. You know what I mean? Now, do I think employee number 17 is making that? Probably not.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

I don't know that he's making peanuts. He's probably still making 20, 40 bucks an hour, like the labor guy. But you know what their business does? I couldn't tell you. I know what we pay. Right?

[B]

Yeah, I see the argument. They're like, I want Americans to have these jobs. But the thing is, if you remove

[A]

all the illegals, Gotta want to have them, brother.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

You know what I mean? I do too. I do too. So what do we do? You know, I come on shows like this, you know, I think we can go to high schools. I think we can start positioning ourselves. Like, that's the. That's what I really want to. Like, I. You too, but we got to. We got to get it going. Yeah. Like, what they think, I think is that they're like, standing outside waiting for jobs, and it's like, brother, we would love to have that, and we're not saving any money. B. I can sell the heck out of that. You know what I mean? You know, and. And see, the bigger problem rally really is we don't have that. So how do we get that? I think that's the law. Micro's been beating that drum for years.

[B]

So do you have an issue right now because there's not enough workforce. Do you have an issue scaling? Like, do you have an issue?

[A]

And. Not yet, but it is.

[B]

You could see that.

[A]

Could. I could see that if the path that we continued to go down was like, targeting crews and. Because Even if they get let go, dude, they don't want to go here. They don't want to go there. Like, there's a couple places already. They're just like. Even if they're legit, they're like, we don't want to go. Don't want to get tackled and, you know, ran up on and then released and scary as hell. And like, this guy doesn't come home. And then if they do go, this other crew is going to charge you twice as much because they're like, we have to anticipate we're going to get.

[B]

Damn, they're talking like that.

[A]

100, bro. Like that. In certain areas.

[B]

Cities. Right. I mean, that's where ICE is at. Major cities.

[A]

And no, really, for us, it's actually the opposite. It's no rural. You serious? I swear to God, it's my world.

[B]

I don't see that on the news.

[A]

It's a. Well. And again, I don't want to. You know, again, I don't.

[B]

We don't have to get too.

[A]

No one wants to be like the. The patriarch when it comes to that. But at the same token, like, we have to have a conversation. We can't also just ignore it.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Like, so, again, we can do our due diligence and make sure that we're doing things the right way as business owners, of course. But again, like, if the labor force is what it is, then that's a bigger issue. We need to see how can we solve it. How can we get more young men and women in America to start coming in and seeing this as a viable thing? I think that's the big picture. You know, going to more high school speaking. I would love to do stuff like that. You know, talking about it. Conversation has to, like, the art of conversation. And, like, there can't be a fear to have that conversation. Like, I know everything is so above board. My wife's an attorney. We do everything right. I'm not worried about it other than, like, I don't necessarily want to be the. The figurehead for it, but at the same token, like, we got to have a conversation. The unions are barren. That's a problem.

[B]

When you say baron, what do you mean?

[A]

No one is on the bench and they can't hire anyone. They're going to everybody that works there. They're like, yo, try to find people, go on Facebook, do all of this. And here's a bigger problem, my friend. Like, these guys that are our age currently. Yeah. They're relying on a pension. When they retire, they're working towards right now. They're paying for the guys before them's pension. They don't see anybody coming in behind them. Their pensions are going to be gone. Yep.

[B]

Social Security's gone. Exactly.

[A]

So, like, what do we. So we got to have these conversations, man. Like, I think it starts with, like, I know there's a lot going on, but, like, this is one issue. It's like, look, we really need to have a conversation here. I think that could be great for our workforce. It would be great for our economy. I think that's the bigger thing. It's like, how do we get American young people back to blue collar trades? Right? Like, that's the thing that I think has a. Is overall the top solve. And perhaps there's an option where it's like, okay, well, here's the current workforce. Perhaps we work something out where it's like, hey, man, you know, help train the next group. Right. And. And you get this. I don't know if it's, you know, amnesty or whatever, or a work visa. I don't know. Right. Like, sure, it's case by case. Right. But again, a conversation we gotta have.

[B]

Yeah. A lot of millennials and Gen Z watch this show. Do you think that kind of that generation just wants to make money digitally? They don't want.

[A]

I think they do. And I think that's because of the way that things swung when we were coming up. And then it went way over corrected to one side. Now it's got a way over correct back.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Right. And so like, brother, your job. You know, I have a friend of mine, my neighbor, he's in sales. I'm in sales. We talk sales all the time. For a while, I was wanting to do software sales. Lots of money.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Right now it' Jobs in jeopardy.

[B]

Sas. Right.

[A]

A AI is basically doing what they were doing and, like, making their software almost obsolete, which makes him obsolete.

[B]

Right.

[A]

He's like, yeah, I might just go work for my buddy's hvac company and sell for him. That's crazy. You know what I'm saying? So, like, if you want to make money, young man or woman, and you want to sell, I would suggest blue collar trades being a very viable opportunity. Right. Come see me if in the DMV area. Right. Like, we'd love to train you up. If you want to learn a skill, come see us. Right. Potomac customer modeling or right in the dmv. Like, we would love to trade you up, train you up, but there's got to be that one.

[B]

Yeah, right.

[A]

That's what we're missing.

[B]

Right.

[A]

And there's got to be the idea that it's cool. And it's like, you know, I think with working hard, we saw that as cool. Right. The value of a hard day's work. I think that pendulum swaying away over to the one side where it's like, well, working hard is, you know, well, I'm gonna do that with a computer and make as much as possible. And there's this microwaved success generation of like, influencers and stuff. And it's like I've been doing this influence thing, if you will. Right. Or social media thing for what, three, four years, and I've never made a dime on it. Now connections and networking. Sure. And that was my whole deal was like, I want to do this for that. Because frankly, it helps empower my business. And I have a podcast that is super niche. So I'm really not worried about that. Like, that's more to talk to people within the community. Right, right. If it establishes AI. We were just talking about that. What can we use that for? Right. I believe AI is ultimately going to take industries like ours in the blue collar space and help us really omit a ton of, you know, overhead and that it's great at answering phones and answering phones as people.

[B]

Yep.

[A]

Right now I'm not trying to like a out jobs or anything, but like, some of these more tedious tasks like AI is going to help speed to lead. Right. Like, that's a big thing. You're in marketing. Speed deletes everything. Yep. There's no one faster than that.

[B]

So many studies on the quicker you hit up the lead, the higher the conversion rate, you're it.

[A]

And so, like, we ran a test, like, there's a company that's working with this dude right now, and they're a group of guys about our age, rock star guys, dudes called Mecca AI. Mecca AI. And I'm plugging them for free because they're so dope and they hook me up. So it's stupid. Upside.com Sharp Young men like me and you that are out there just trying to help AI and blue collar spaces. But they are. They got their shit together.

[B]

There's so many opportunities and they're.

[A]

And they're. And they're focusing it like on our niche where they're like, okay, we can do speed to lead. We can do answering canvas calls. Yeah, dude. Like that itself is like, okay, everybody at the door when canvassing. Like, that just helps verify the lead. Right. They can answer overnight calls, they can answer weekend calls. Make sure you're getting the most out of your ad revenue, right? Like, or your ad dollars. And so like, AI for us isn't a bad thing, right? AI for us means less overhead, more speed to lead. But there's not anybody up on the roof or doing the bathroom skill work. And even if we get robots like old, you know, Elon decides to start doing, I don't know, I don't. Hopefully we're far away from that. But I do think the finish work, the skill work, the people element's always going to be there.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And so like I said, man, I mean the, the homies at Mecca, AI, it's called, their website is stupidupside.com and again, they've helped us so much. Yeah, dude, it's. It's really cool what they're doing because I haven't seen. I've started to see the pendulum swing a little bit. I'm using that analogy. Hold on. I've started to see the AI come into that, like what we're doing more towards that. So I think that's what's happening for us in AI. But yeah, those guys, they got their stuff together.

[B]

I see so much opportunity because I hire a blue collar worker probably once a month for my house, whether it's roofing, whether it's landscaping, cleaning, the dryer, whatever, you know what I mean? None of them are using AI. I think you could use it for outreach instantly. AI is amazing. I send 2, 000 emails every single day.

[A]

Yes, yes. 100 phenomenal emails. Answering emails. Like, dude, there's so much. And I'm admittedly like probably the, the worst person to talk to by that because, like, I'm a little old school, you know what I mean? I love people.

[B]

You like the in person interaction people, bro. What?

[A]

Come on, man. Like, I love people, right? I'm the guy at the gas station that like, if you're across from me, even if I'm like, nice day, huh? You know, I mean, I can't help it, dude. You know what I mean? I love people. I think so. I think so. I love coaching, you know, I love helping people. What I've been through, and we joked about it earlier, but a lot of salespeople are like right on that cusp of just crazy enough or just like,

[B]

those are always the best.

[A]

My top sales rep right now, dude, I hire only people with no experience. I love the cult. Yeah, dude. Only. No, only green. That's a hot take. Only green. Only green.

[B]

You don't want a sales guy that has Experience.

[A]

I don't. Because you're coming at me with experience. And any experience is not. Is not our system. And that by nature is bad habits. Now, it's not. It's not. I'm not crapping on where you came from, but it's not our habits. And if it's not our habits, it's bad habits.

[B]

You're playing the long game 100. You're trying to build these guys from ground zero.

[A]

Well, in my opinion, if you can't do that, what do you have? Right? You have a recruiting service that's constantly begging the top guys from other places to come to you. And that to me is like building relationship on, like, cheating or something and thinking like, well, I can't believe that he left to go here. Like, well, he did the same thing to you, man. And so, like, your skill set, now that you've honed is the ability to package together the sexiest package and try to allure people over to you. And I did that when I was running around when I was in sales. I know what that's like. But I never put down roots. I never built anything, and I regretted it. And so you're always going to be looking because they're always going to leave, bro. For me. If I bring you in, I teach you the art, right? Now, you've got a certain loyalty. You're attached to us and our culture. As long as you have a good culture, you have to earn these things. Got to create the culture. Right. You got to be someone worth following. First of all, a nine can't lead a ten. Right? Right. So you've got to put yourself and hold yourself to a certain standard. And I believe I've done that. But now I want to find coachable young men and women. That's all I require. Coachable. Good attitude, good work ethic. I'll train the rest. I run the disc to see what your propensity for sales success is. Right? Like, if you're telling me you really want to sell and you're like, by appearances and personality, an engineer, it's gonna be tough. I might have a place for you. It might be better sued that you do insurance resto work because it's more thought process on, like, is this or isn't it? But if it's high ticket, high pressure, probably not going to work, man. And so, like, for me, my top rep currently is a former BMX rider, Ryan. Ryan Wells. If he's listening to this, he's. He used to be a BMX racer. He never had a Real job, his life, ever.

[B]

Wow.

[A]

This is the first time he realized, like, I'm not going to be able to make what I want. Doing what I'm doing sucks. Giving up on the dream. In a lot of ways, that's a tough profession, bmx. Yeah, well, and he's racing and he's like selling himself for sponsors. But it's just, I saw all that. I'm like, competition, gotta have that competitive spirit. If you're not competitive, get out of sales. You don't belong in it. Right. If you don't want to see yourself at the top of the leaderboard, you do not belong in sales.

[B]

I agree.

[A]

Right. It's so funny because, like, he's like, we shifted. We shifted something to like, just how we do it in our system. And then he used to be able to see the leaderboard, like, anytime he logged in. A guy like that notices immediately and he's like, hey, dude, you know what happened to the leaderboard? I really like. I'm like, see, that's why you where you need to be, man. Like, we still have it. You just can't see it every day. But he's killing it, like in our slow season. Right. So, like, we want to create, cultivate, and keep. You know, that helps higher retention and it's a skill set to be able to do that. If you can't do that again, I don't know what your sustainability is going to be. And this is something that I teach people when they come out. Like, there's so many things that we offer as a consulting firm, but it's not just selling and sales system. But if you're an entrepreneur and you want to learn how to do that, like you just said you were shocked at hearing that. Like, that's invaluable.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Like, fly out to Maryland, spend a weekend with us. It's going to be very cost effective. We 100% guarantee the value, and if not, we'll stroke you a check back, man. Never had it happen, but we will. The bigger thing is, A, we're hoping to provide actionable stuff that you can take and make money with right away. And B, if you like what you hear, you realize there's a ton of other stuff that needs to happen because you're not going to get it all in one weekend. Right. And then we can work together more in the future. So either way, it's a great use of my time. Right? Either I'm providing you a direct value right now, this weekend that you can go and use to make money or I'm providing you a snippet of something that. A snapshot of something where, yes, you can go use this to make money, but I can further help you here, here, here, here and here.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Recruiting guys, maintaining guys, keeping them is just as important as being able to bring them in. And that's what I think you lose if all you're doing is, hey, come over here, I've got more money. You know what I mean? More money, better culture. If, you know, if you. And that's a part of. As a business owner, and you know this, as a business owner, we have certain responsibilities and we have a due diligence to our people. And one of those things is providing a place worth being, but also painting a picture of like, what's your future here? What does that look like? If I'm not showing you the we have an opportunity structure, we show every new person, like, what's your path to this company? If you don't do that, then shame on you. And really, I mean, if they leave, well, what did you think was going to happen?

[B]

Happen, Right.

[A]

Did you show them what their path was here? Right. Like, you have to know that a canvassers lifespan of a canvasser is three to six months. And I mean six months if you're lucky. Damn right. Like, you have to know that you get a really good one, they want to move up.

[B]

That's a salesperson's canvasser.

[A]

So set or closer model, Salesperson almost always. A lot of times starts in canvassing, knocking doors. But some models have them just knocking doors and setting appointments closer. So that's called a setter closer model. Right. Whereas you make, you know, solar sometimes can just be all in one.

[B]

Right.

[A]

You're knocking, you're closing. Yeah. There's also a model where you knock only you set appointments closer comes in, closes. Usually those guys refine their skill sets on the door. The guys that do really, really well, they expect to move up, dude. And you have to know that if you selfishly just try to keep them over there, dude, you're going to lose them and they're going to come to my company or somewhere like it where we know, hey, man, come on up. I'd rather not lose you. I'd rather put you in somewhere you can be a value to the company, then know that you're just going to go anyhow. Yeah, it's a fool's errand to just keep them out there. So these are the things we teach.

[B]

What about working with friends and family? Is that something you have strict boundaries on, yes, now.

[A]

And I'm glad you asked that, man, because early on, when I first built this company, I hired a lot of people in recovery. And that was really cool because I had this vision of, like, I've been given the second chance and I want to give back. And so everyone I hired was in recovery.

[B]

Wow.

[A]

Everyone. And I made the mistake and did not say everyone. There was like eight to 10 people at the time. This was the first company I made the mistake of trying to, like, sponsor everybody. And I. I'm speaking the language of like a 12 step program. But, like, that was a very big mistake because now I'm attaching myself emotionally to you and what you, you know, the statistics aren't good. Right, Right. I've watched people die.

[B]

Damn.

[A]

Lots of. I've watched at least three to five people die over the last crap six years. Well, brother, the statistics aren't great, man. You know what I mean?

[B]

What are they?

[A]

Like, 30% are going to make it whenever you go into rehab. They're like one in two of you guys are going to make it out of like 20. So maybe in 20 have a chance of, like, survival. They could have gone up. I only remember what it was back when I was in but 20, we have a much higher retention rate, by the way, and sobriety rate. And I think that's a testament to having a culture of your. Your environment plays a part in that.

[B]

Yeah. 100.

[A]

Right. And so, like, for me, if I'm open to being this guy in recovery, then I'd better continue to walk that walk. Show them. Like, I'm in a meeting every Thursday, every Friday. Where we got. Our office is right up the street from where I go to meetings at. Right. Like all that stuff. Like, they see me with almost 10 years of sobriety, still doing the things that got me there. But I can't be responsible for you doing that. And I can't obsess about you staying sober. And I can't require that. My wife's an attorney. Like, I can't be like, you got to go to meetings. You got to do all this stuff. Like, I can't do that. You got to want to do that. And if you don't want to do that, well, I can't do anything about it, man. Like, but that drove me crazy at first because, like, I cared about you on a level that was more than work.

[B]

And so that was my issue too. I'm very cautious with working with friends now.

[A]

Yeah. Yeah. And so, like, because you mix the

[B]

personal too much, you you let them off easy. It's just tough nepotism.

[A]

People see it. Yeah, right. Like, so, like, well, bro, and even if you don't mean to do it, and this is directly with family, I tell this. I have a cousin who was one of that original group, by the way, in recovery. He's still with me, so is Nick. So those two guys are still with me. So we got a great. That. That alone is more than 20. But I tell them, like, guys, the optics are you should be trying harder, working hard to do everything the right way because you set the standard. People know. It doesn't matter if they know they're your cousin or your brother, inevitably they're going to be watching how things happen. You know what I mean? They might not tell you that, but they're watching. Right. And so, like, you need to make sure, like, you work harder, you do more, the expectations are higher for you, and I have to be harder on you because if I do the opposite, that's nepotism. That's not fair. You know, I can't fire Ken's cousin or Ken's friend. And I have to try to delegate someone to run my companies. I have a VP now. We've gotten to a certain size. If that person doesn't feel like they actually have the power to do that, then of what value? I haven't empowered them to do their job really. Right. And so I have to make it clear, like, look, man, everyone is the same. Doesn't matter. I know you don't think that because you don't want to tell me that, but I promise you, if you need to reprimand him or do anything, I've had that conversation. Yeah. Right. And so, like, that is what it is.

[B]

What about the wife? You work with the wife?

[A]

I do. That was difficult. My wife's an attorney, Rebecca. She is a rock star. And she is early on, it was, like, hard because this is my thing. You know what I'm saying? It's my baby.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

I worked really hard on my baby. And now you want to talk about my baby when I come home and all that. All the things I gotta fix on my baby. Right. And I'm like, ego, Right. I don't want to hear this. Certainly don't want to hear it from you. And especially because you're smart and you have a way of, you know, providing things to me. Very matter of fact.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

I'm more emotionally Attorneys.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So I'm like, you know, maybe this isn't going to work out, but. So I pulled Back a bit. She was actually working in D.C. and I won't. You know, she was a federal prosecutor. She's like, she ain't badass. Top 25, you know, law school. I find that so sexy. So she's always like you thought. You know, I think she thought for a while I didn't like respect the fact that she's an attorney. I'm like I find so attractive the fact that you're an attorney. I don't think you understand. Like I love what smart woman and a powerful like you know. But she has traditional values as well. Yeah. Now she's staying home. She's still an attorney. But you know we were able to provide that for. Because I'm a six month old daughter and which is why I was late getting on here after a couple years ago. Which again thank you for that. Of course Mr. Kelly hooked it up for me. We were supposed to come on a couple years ago, but so I appreciate.

[B]

Yeah. Congrats on the kid.

[A]

Thank you so much. She's adorable. But now my wife does. So she's home now. So since he retired or quit or whatever you want to call it to make sure she stayed home with the kid all of a sudden like she was a general counsel for us at the company which is just like very administrative type things. Right. Not to relegate her to don't get me wrong. But she would just take over like because we have attorneys for all the things. Yeah, right. Daniel and Roger Sammick are brilliant. She has a highly respects them. But like if we need something like you know, a demand letter or something, she'd just do it for us.

[B]

That makes sense.

[A]

Now that she's home all of a sudden the floodgates open on like oh, we have access to, you know, general counsel and they're just blowing her up. So we actually were just talking about like a. We got to create some boundaries. How do they get the chance to like. She can't just to be accessed 24,7B. We have to have some boundaries. And I have to tell her like I'll come home. Right. And she's talking to you at work about this client. I don't want to know about that one client that's a pain in the butt. Like I want to hear about the. The good. Like, like let's talk about like the things I'm good at. I want to live in the world I'm good at, which is sales, recruiting, coaching, cultivating the next group of folks. You live in that and I know you want to Talk to me about that. But that is not my strength. And that stresses me out, bro. Like that one person will like give me high blood pressure and I. The company is now at a size. We have two offices. We're getting ready to go into Pennsylvania. Three offices. Our goals this year are to do amazing things this year. And we want to pursue. And we're very open about this within our company. The opportunity is like we're shooting for that private equity deal.

[B]

Right.

[A]

Whether it's private equity or whatever, we want to be invested in. And I'm going to hire you and bring you in and explain to that effect, like, look, man, this is something we're shooting for and whether or not it happens, like, we'll at least have that option. Because a sellable company is profitable. Right. They've got a strong ebitda. They don't owe anybody anything. They've got a great culture. Like they're all good things.

[B]

Yep.

[A]

Right. So like you're going to want to be at a company like that. In fact, if you're not, chances are you're somewhere where, look, this is the highest complained about industry in the industry. Roofing. And the roofing bar. Bar. Nothing. Shortly follow behind. Used to be solar with the. It's the most saturated. So that means there's a lot of really bad options.

[B]

That makes sense.

[A]

Right. And so like, we've got to work really hard to be. Not that. Yeah. So we established ourselves at the highest possible positioning that we can with manufacturers, distributors. You know, we were one of two companies that were up last year in our distributor catalog and so we're very proud of that. But that was last year. So this year we got to go do that. But everyone has their part. My wife is an extraordinary talent and I feel much safer with her doing it. But we can't help but like, it's just that cross of when I come home or when we talk, it's like, so anyway, I'm like, okay during the week, during the day, I don't care. But I don't want it to be like, I don't know. We're still learning how to navigate, to be honest with you.

[B]

So relatable.

[A]

You know what I mean?

[B]

I made a.

[A]

Do you do that?

[B]

Yeah. So the first. Similar to you. The first few years were tough. It got to the point where we had to not work together for a bit. Now we're at a great point where we don't really talk business on weekends unless it's an emergency.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

Which comes up in our lifestyle. So we have clear boundaries. Because you know me with adhd, my brain is just always running. Like, I'm thinking business all day. When I'm in bed at night, I'm thinking about business.

[A]

Yeah, I've got a few. I've been struggling to stay still. I've got. And I'm in recovery, bro, so, like, I can't take the things right.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

My wife's, like, such a shame, because I really believe you would do so well, but you can't do it. But you're probably the first person I've ever met that actually needs this. But she's. She's so great because she's so patient and she's, like, so smart and knows, like, because she lives in that world and what she did, she's got a very unique understanding of a lot of the things that I went through.

[B]

Yeah, that's great.

[A]

Medical fraud. And so she dives into, like, the science behind these things. And so she's like, dude, you're adhd. But if I. You can harness that adhd. Guys like you and me, we just blow by everybody now. There's a lot going on up there, and we got to grab stuff from here, here, and here. And you're right. It's always on. You can't turn it off. And that, I think, is why I turn to. I didn't know how to slow down.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So, like, we turned to drugs and alcohol and helped that. But, yeah, I think for us, it's very similar in that, like, when I get home and I can't blow up about it because I want to. I'm like, don't talk to me about Mrs. So and so. You know what I mean? And I'm just like, all right, honey, listen. That one thing to you is no big deal. And I know it's very interesting to you, but to me, let's talk about making money. Like, let's talk about how my top sales reps doing this. Like, so we're still learning how to navigate. I think that's an excellent piece of advice.

[B]

I love it, man. Well, Ken, this was great. Let people know where they could find you and learn from you, man.

[A]

The Facebook or Instagram is official. Ken Baden. The podcast is the Kitchen table with Ken Baden. If you were interested in roofing or sales. And Baden Consulting is the consulting company badenconsulting.net Baden Consulting, Instagram, and Kenny Baden on Facebook.

[B]

Cool. Check them out, guys. Peace. Thanks for watching all the way to the end, guys. It means a lot. Please click here if you want to watch the next episode and please subscribe to the show. It helps us get more guests and helps grow the brand.