He Took the NBA to the Supreme Court... & Won... | Spencer Haywood | DSH #1955

Summary

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Digital Social Hour – He Took the NBA to the Supreme Court... & Won... | Spencer Haywood | DSH #1955

Date: May 8, 2026
Host: Sean Kelly
Guest: Spencer Haywood

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Episode Overview

This episode of Digital Social Hour delves deep into the extraordinary journey of NBA legend Spencer Haywood—a man who not only left an indelible mark on the basketball court, but also changed the game for generations by challenging the NBA’s rules in the Supreme Court. Host Sean Kelly and Haywood engage in an unfiltered, insightful discussion spanning Haywood’s humble beginnings in segregated Mississippi, his role in expanding NBA opportunities, the personal and political struggles behind his landmark legal battle, his reflections on race and legacy, and the evolution of professional sports into the mega-business it is today.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Early Life and Humble Beginnings

• Childhood in Mississippi:

  • Haywood recounted being born into poverty in Silver City, Mississippi, working as a “slave picking cotton for $2 a day” just three years before standing on the Olympic podium ([02:07], [19:19]).
  • His family's resourcefulness: His mother fashioned basketballs from croaker sacks stuffed with cotton, and makeshift rims from found materials ([25:56], [26:49]).

• Quote:

  “Three years before, I was a slave picking cotton in Silver city Mississippi for $2 a day. Now I am on the grandest stage in the world with a gold medal on my neck.”
  — Spencer Haywood ([19:19])

2. College & Olympic Stardom

• College Exploitation:

  • Despite generating revenue and national attention for the University of Detroit and NCAA, Haywood was unable to receive any meaningful compensation due to NCAA rules ([05:54]).
  • Harsh contrast between the lucrative business of college sports and players’ poverty, highlighted by Haywood’s mother’s continued labor in the fields while he fueled sold-out arenas ([05:54]).

• 1968 Olympics:

  • Haywood led the US basketball team as its youngest star in a highly charged political climate, securing gold despite being underdogs ([18:20]).
  • He described the era as unstable, referencing the murdered Kennedys, MLK, Kent State shootings, and Olympic protests ([18:35]).

• Quote:

  “We were favored to be the first American team to lose every game. And we won every game.”
  — Spencer Haywood ([18:20])

3. Breaking the NBA’s “Four-Year Rule” & Supreme Court Case

• The Rule:

  • At the time, players had to wait four years after high school graduation before entering the NBA/ABA—a rule Haywood challenged because of its stifling impact on young talent ([03:58], [13:26]).

• Transition to ABA:

  • After a stellar Olympic showing, Haywood joined the Denver Rockets (ABA), became Rookie of the Year and league MVP, but discovered his contract was fraudulent—delaying most pay until decades later and contingent on employment ([08:24], [09:54]).

• Legal Battle:

  • After a bitter split, Haywood signed with the Seattle Sonics, prompting a legal battle that escalated to the Supreme Court.
  • The NBA and NCAA attempted to break his spirit through public intimidation and by barring him from games ([10:27]).

• Landmark Decision:

  • In a historic judgment, the Supreme Court ruled in Haywood’s favor, citing the Sherman Antitrust Act and his right to earn a living ([13:03]).
  • This ruling ended the four-year rule and paved the way for high school-to-NBA transitions and the global expansion of basketball talent ([13:26], [26:47]).

• Notable Quote:

  “This is a prime example of the Sherman Antitrust act, which meant that you cannot stop a person from making a living in America. And I won my case.”
  — Spencer Haywood ([13:03])

4. Racial and Social Barriers

• Segregation & Jim Crow:

  • Haywood described the contradictions of growing up in a racially divided South—white children would play and befriend him secretly, but act hostile in front of parents to avoid punishment ([31:47]).

• Slave Mentality & Trauma:

  • Discussion of generational trauma, "crab barrel mentality," and lack of support or recognition among black athletes and communities for trailblazers like himself ([44:33]).
  • Candid about the historical brutality of slavery and its deep psychological scars—few sought therapy or healing ([49:26]).

• Quote:

  “We still tend to hover around the slave mentality...We can never grow like we should in America because we’re constantly pushing each other down, pulling each other down. It’s like crab barrel mentality.”
  — Spencer Haywood ([44:33])

5. Legacy, NIL, and Changing College Sports

• NIL Legislation:
  • Haywood described his ongoing advocacy in Washington for the rights of college athletes to profit off Name, Image, and Likeness (NIL)—a right derived directly from his Supreme Court victory ([33:30]).
  • Expressed concern over political forces, including Nick Saban and Tommy Tuberville, seeking to curtail NIL rights ([34:03]).
• Critiques of Modern NCAA/Transfer Culture:
  • Haywood disapproves of the "easy transfer" era, which limits young players’ opportunities for growth and life lessons ([36:03]).
  • Raised concerns about exploitation by agents, parents, and sponsors, echoing past problems with the NCAA ([37:14]).

6. Player Empowerment, Labor Rights, and NBA Evolution

• Shift in Power:

  • Detailed the movement from complete team control over players to a near-even share of league revenue (now ~51% owners/49% players) ([40:41]).
  • Reminded that NBA players owe much to early labor pioneers like himself and Oscar Robertson ([41:09]).

• Modern Disconnect:

  • Frustration that history and foundational figures are often disregarded or unknown by current players (referenced a board meeting confrontation with LeBron James) ([43:22]).

• Money & Expansion:

  • Noted NBA salaries have totaled $67 billion since 1971, and discussed the staggering modern expansion fees: up to $10 billion for a Las Vegas or Seattle franchise ([41:20], [62:16]).

7. Reflections on Sports Culture — Then and Now

• Game Evolution:

  • Praised contemporary players' talent, athleticism, and physical fitness, stressing the increased pace and skill level over past generations ([56:18]).
  • Humor over shifts in tactics (three-point shooting, defensive rules, etc.) and nostalgia for how each generation views itself as superior ([54:47]).

• Quote:

  “The game has evolved into something beautiful and special. It's international.”
  — Spencer Haywood ([57:36])

8. Personal Recovery, Family & Life After Basketball

• Battles with Addiction & Recovery:
  • Open about cocaine dependence during his playing career, support from teammates like Magic and Kareem, and how therapy (rare then) helped him recover ([66:50]).
• Family Successes:
  • Pride in raising four accomplished daughters—including a psychiatrist, university professor, cosmetics executive, and business professional ([73:34]).
  • Recall of building apartments and giving back to Detroit during post-NBA life ([70:34]).
• Reunion and Brotherhood:
  • Close relationships with former teammates through annual reunions, contrasting the camaraderie of Showtime Lakers with MJ’s “fear-based” leadership ([66:26], [66:48]).

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Memorable Quotes & Moments (with Timestamps)

• On the Supreme Court Battle (13:03):

  “This is a prime example of the Sherman Antitrust act, which meant that you cannot stop a person from making a living in America. And I won my case.” — Spencer Haywood

• On Humble Beginnings (19:19):

  “Three years before, I was a slave picking cotton in Silver City, Mississippi for $2 a day. Now I am on the grandest stage in the world with a gold medal on my neck.” — Spencer Haywood

• On Modern NBA Salaries (41:20):

  “The number was $67 billion from 1971 until today. And I can walk in a room. They like, who the hell is that?” — Spencer Haywood

• On Racial Trauma (44:33):

  “We still tend to hover around the slave mentality. And I don’t want to give you no respect…It’s like crab barrel mentality, you know, like, if you get out that barrel to the top, believe me, I’m pulling your ass back in here.” — Spencer Haywood

• On Current Players’ Acknowledgement (43:22):

  “No, he know. But he’s in denial because I asked him afterwards, I said, why would you talk to me such harsh ways? And I paved the way for you. And he kept going around him. No. LeBron James. That’s who it was.” — Spencer Haywood

• On Game Evolution (57:36):

  “The game has evolved into something beautiful and special. It’s international.” — Spencer Haywood

• On Family and Fatherhood (73:34):

  “I’ve been blessed and I’ve been so humble with my life that God is good.” — Spencer Haywood

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Timeline of Important Segments

| Timestamp | Segment | |:-------------:|-----------------------------------------------------------------| | 02:07 | Haywood on humble beginnings and Olympic moment | | 03:58 | Explaining the NBA's four-year rule | | 08:24 | Move to ABA, MVP season, fraudulent contract | | 09:54 | The contract dispute, racism, and the start of the legal fight | | 13:03 | Supreme Court victory and legacy | | 18:20 | Underdog status in the 1968 Olympics | | 26:47 | Childhood basketball ingenuity in rural Mississippi | | 33:30 | Ongoing fight for NIL and fairness in college sports | | 34:03 | Political attempts to roll back NIL rules | | 41:20 | NBA salary explosion and reflection on today's players | | 44:33 | Racial trauma, generational struggle, and lack of recognition | | 54:47 | How many points Haywood would score in today’s NBA | | 56:18 | Praise and analysis of modern NBA athletes | | 66:26 | Annual Lakers reunions, team camaraderie | | 70:34 | Post-basketball life, business ventures, family achievements | | 73:34 | Reflections on his blessings and legacy |

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Tone & Language

Throughout the episode, both Sean and Spencer maintain an informal, candid, and sometimes humorous tone. Haywood is honest to the point of bluntness, unafraid to criticize institutions, call out racism, or dive into sensitive topics like slavery’s modern legacy, but also quick with witty asides and warmth when discussing family or his love for basketball.

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Conclusion

This profound, wide-ranging conversation with Spencer Haywood is not just the story of a sports icon, but a testimony to perseverance amidst adversity, the complicated race and labor politics behind the evolution of American sports, and the importance of legacy and family. Haywood’s life and legal victories continue to impact leagues and athletes at all levels. His humility, candor, and advocacy remain as relevant and inspiring today as ever.

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For more from Spencer Haywood, look forward to his upcoming podcast "The Spencer Haywood Rule", and follow his appearances during NBA Summer League for deep-dive conversations with past and present NBA stars.

Transcript

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Prices and participation may vary. Prices may be higher for delivery right away. The Denver owner, Denver Rocket says, we're gonna make you the highest player in the world, boy. I got an attorney and we went in and said, oh my God, this is crazy. You got to straighten this up. Why would you do such a I saved the league. I did all of these things and you gonna cheat? You tell me? You get your nick ass out of here and take that Jew lawyer with me. Get out of here. Get out of here. Three years before, I was a slave picking cotton in Silver city Mississippi for $2 a day. Now I am on the grandest stage in the world with a gold medal on my neighbor.

[Interviewer/Podcast Host]

Okay, guys, sitting here with a legend today and a Vegas local. We got Spencer Haywood on the show. He doesn't do many interviews, so I'm honored to have you, man. Thanks for coming.

[Spencer Haywood]

Thank you so much. Yeah, you're still saying like Elvis. Thank you very much in Vegas, right? Vegas, Yeah.

[Interviewer/Podcast Host]

I love it here, man. I've been here five years.

[Spencer Haywood]

I've been here 15.

[Interviewer/Podcast Host]

Damn.

[Spencer Haywood]

Yeah.

[Interviewer/Podcast Host]

You like a lot then? Yeah, 15 years and a lot good is coming. Just announced NBA team.

[Spencer Haywood]

NBA team is here in 2028. That's going to be really exciting. And you also have, you know, the Seattle SuperSonics are coming back. So those are the two teams that are coming into the league that make it around it out at 32. So all of my stuff, my jersey from the hall of Fame, my jersey from Jersey, retirement jersey, everything has been in storage in Seattle. So it's exciting to have the team come back so I can see my stuff at least. Yeah, yeah.

[Interviewer/Podcast Host]

Did you ever think the NBA would get this big because you played in for a while, but now it's huge and it's still growing?

[Spencer Haywood]

Yeah, I mean, that was my argument when I was fighting all the way to the Supreme Court, is that we were losing so many players waiting on the four year rule. The four year rule stated that you had to wait four years after your high school class had graduated before you could go into the NBA or aba. And I had just finished up the Olympics in Mexico City where I set the record for the most points, the most rebounds, and the highest field goal percentage in the history of basketball, in the history of the Olympics. And I was 18. So I was this phenom that was early out of the box, the one and only. And so I was at the University of Detroit. I was an All American there. First team with Kareem Pete Maravich, Rick Mount and Calvin Murphy. We were the first team All Americans. And then here come the ABA said, hey, we can't get Kareem to take an interest in us. So you were the outstanding college player of the year and he was the mvp. So what do you think about leaving college and playing in the aba? And I was like, college is going to hang me. What are you talking about? You can't do that. That's a violation. So Hannah Storm, father Hannah is with espn. Her father says, we got a gimmick. We're going to do this at the press conference. So we had all of these press people and the colleges were screaming, he's going to tear up our cow. Because it was getting, you know, a lot of pre labor for nothing. And you couldn't even buy. You couldn't. It was a violation to give me a hamburger. Crazy in college.

[Interviewer/Podcast Host]

So you were making the university money off.

[Spencer Haywood]

I'm making all money off all of that, as well as making tons of money off of NBC. NBC took our games. So they was getting paid all of this money. And the arena was full, so they was getting paid all this money. And my mother was picking cotton in Silver City, Mississippi for $2 a day. Wow. We didn't have food, we didn't have nothing. So here I am asking them, please, please, can you help me out? Can't help you out. It's a violation of the NC2A rules set forth in 1956. I'm like, what are you talking about? You got the towel boys who are cleaning up the locker rooms and everything. They, they are making $100,000 a year back then.

[Interviewer/Podcast Host]

What?

[Spencer Haywood]

Yeah. Because see, what happened is that the NC2A in the universities are a 501c3 nonprofit.

[Interviewer/Podcast Host]

Wow.

[Spencer Haywood]

So they have to spend the money, but they can't spend the money on the labor.

[Interviewer/Podcast Host]

Huh. I didn't know they were a non profit. I thought they were making money.

[Spencer Haywood]

Yeah, they make money, but they have to spend it. Oh, but they can't spend it on the players.

[Interviewer/Podcast Host]

Wow. So people were making a lot, but not the players.

[Spencer Haywood]

Everybody was making money. And so they, they reneged on trying to help me out. And so I went into the aba. In the press conference was, he made a statement that, ladies and gentlemen, we intend to give Spencer Haywood reparation. I was like, you said the R word. You know, like, America, we don't want to hear about giving slaves reparations of, you know, black people reparations. You know, we'll give it to everybody else in the world, but you people don't get no freaking reparation. So that word was like, okay, forbidden. Let's let him come on in then. So the idea was to get seven points, five rebounds, and the gamut would work. Then we would go after Julius Irvin, George Gervin, all of those players. So that year I averaged 30 and basically 20 rebounds, was rookie of the year, MVP of the league, MVP of the All Star Game. I won it all.

[Interviewer/Podcast Host]

Wow.

[Spencer Haywood]

And right away, the Denver ownership of the Denver Rockets says, we're going to make you the highest paid player in the world. Boy. I was like, I like that. So they give me a fraudulent. They gave me a fraudulent contract, a contract done by Bernie Madoff, but not Bernie Madoff. It was Jeff Dargoff on Wall Street. So what they did is they said in the contract, but not in front of me, that, you know, you're going to get 1.9 million. But the contract would read that you would get 100,000 per year, and then the rest would be. And on the back end, but providing that the stock market kept moving. Well. So when you get to be age 50 to age 70 is when you get your bulk of money, but with the caveat that you would have to still work for Ringsby Truck Line and Ringsby Rockets, which is Denver Rockets, which is the Denver Nuggets. I got an attorney, and we went in and said, oh, my God, this is crazy. You got to straighten this out. Why would you do such a crazy thing? I saved the league. I did all of these things, and you're going to cheat. He told me, you get your n ass out of here and take that Jew lawyer with you. Get out of here. Get out of here.

[Interviewer/Podcast Host]

Wow.

[Spencer Haywood]

I'm like, oh, write it in. And so at the meantime, you had the Phoenix Suns and the Seattle SuperSonics, who were the two teams, two expansion teams for the NBA. And I think they expanded to a number of like, 14 at that time. And so Jerry Colangelo went into the aba, and he got the mvp, Connie Hawkins, and brought him to Phoenix. And then the next year, Sam came, got me, and he signed me. He said, you know, I know you won't be eligible to play, but we might have to fight this case. And so I said, I'm ready, man. I don't want to sit out for a year, then come back into the league, so let's fight. I thought it would. We all thought it would just go in the first round to the lower courts and so on, but it kept going through the courts, the district court, all the way to the Supreme Court. But in the meantime, while I was going through those court systems, the league, the NC2A and the ABA, was fighting to break my spirit. So what they would do is when I would walk out on the floor, ladies and gentlemen, we have an illegal player on the floor. Number 24, Spencer Haywood. This game is being played under protest. You feel free to hit him with bottles or whatever.

[Interviewer/Podcast Host]

What?

[Spencer Haywood]

Duh. Wow. So, yeah, they were announcing that. Yeah. So that happened. Then we get to Cincinnati, and the Cincinnati Royals, Oscar Robinson, Jerry Lucas, and Wayne Emery, Those guys So I said, ladies and gentlemen, we got him tonight. I'm looking around. What are they going to do tonight? What the hell they got up for me tonight. He has to be off the grounds in which this arena sat on and get out of here. So I had my uniform on. It put me out into the snow. So I'm standing out into the snow. This young guy, I'm like, just turned 20 now. I'm like, whoa, this is some crazy, crazy, crazy S H I t. But you know, these are the things you go through. And then I, I moved to the next game. Not right after consecutive games, but games. I moved to play the Chicago Bulls. The Michael Jordan Chicago Bulls.

[Interviewer/Podcast Host]

What year was this?

[Spencer Haywood]

This is in 1970 and 71. So I removed to play them. I'm, I'm warming up on the other end because I had gotten a 10 game injunction against the NBA so I can play. So Chet Walker, who was the all Star and a Hall of Famer on the other end says, oh, I, bro, I hurt my ankle. And he says, why did you hurt your ankle? He sued me, he said, looking at Spencer Haywood on the other end. And I twisted my ankle. He owed me $600,000.

[Healthcare/Vivgard Advertiser]

What?

[Spencer Haywood]

That's crazy. So finally we reached the Supreme Court. And that's where Thurgood Marshall and the other justice looked at the case and said, this is a prime example of the Sherman Antitrust act, which meant that you cannot stop a person from making a living in America. And I won my case.

[Interviewer/Podcast Host]

Let's go.

[Spencer Haywood]

Ta da. And from that case, we were able to expand from 14 teams to, to 30 teams. Because all of a sudden you had young players who wasn't staying in college for the four or four years because it was in essence dragging the NBA down because by the time you get to them, they got broken knees or whatever. So the NBA just started growing, growing and growing from this one ruling that they fought me against.

[Interviewer/Podcast Host]

Yeah. Now people are coming out of high school, people are coming from international overseas, international all over.

[Spencer Haywood]

Yeah.

[Interviewer/Podcast Host]

Wow. It's a global sport now. It's a global and it keeps growing. Look at you, man. You're a big part of that. That's crazy.

[Spencer Haywood]

Who would have thought, who would have thought a kid from Silver City, Mississippi, the cotton fields of Silver City, Mississippi, that would do all of these things to save the 68 Olympics, to save the ABA and to advance the NBA. So pro sports has been, whatever what I've been about.

[Interviewer/Podcast Host]

After you won, did you still get treated poorly? For a little bit, I got treated

[Spencer Haywood]

poorly for a little while. But eventually we played Milwaukee, the Milwaukee Bucks and Kareem and I, we hadn't.

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[Spencer Haywood]

What's going on?

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[Spencer Haywood]

But we was always saw each other like, yeah. So the teams were still going downstairs. They would go downstairs when I walk on the floor and Kareem didn't go. He stayed upstairs and we dapped up. He said, he won the case, man. What are you. Why don't we still punishing him? And that's when the players association said, okay, this is the time. Let's get off of his back and let's. He's going to make us richer. He's going to make everything better for us.

[Interviewer/Podcast Host]

Wow.

[Spencer Haywood]

That was when the things changed.

[Interviewer/Podcast Host]

So Kareem really stood out for you. Were you friends with him before that or.

[Spencer Haywood]

Yeah, well, we were friends, but we were not like, close close because when he boycotted the Six Day Olympics and the Olympic committee said, oh, we got a guy that could take Kareem's place, Elvin Hayes place in West Huntale. And I'm looking around like, who the hell are they talking about? No, it's you. Oh, yeah. So that's how I got on the Olympic team.

[Interviewer/Podcast Host]

Wow. So you guys were underdogs in the Olympics. Were you favored to win that?

[Spencer Haywood]

We were favored to be the first American team to lose every game. Wow. And we won every game.

[Interviewer/Podcast Host]

So you were really the underdogs.

[Spencer Haywood]

Yeah. They had a freshman leading the team.

[Interviewer/Podcast Host]

Wow.

[Spencer Haywood]

Normally you would have a senior in college, but this year, the 68 Radical 6, 8, 68 Olympics with a glove. George Foreman fighting in the Russian. He was coming out with the American flag. Oh, say can you see? And then you had Tommy Smith, John Carlos. It was crazy in America at that time. We had the shooting at Kent State. We had the murder of Robert Kennedy. We just had the murder of. I think we had the murder of Martin Luther King.

[Interviewer/Podcast Host]

Yeah. It was around nine.

[Spencer Haywood]

Yeah.

[Interviewer/Podcast Host]

So it was a lot of division.

[Spencer Haywood]

It was a lot of division in the, the Olympics. That year was supposed to represent a boycott of all for the black athletes for the Olympics.

[Interviewer/Podcast Host]

Oh, really? All black athletes?

[Spencer Haywood]

Yeah. But a lot of us, all of the athletes showed up, with the exception of Kareem Wow and Wes Onsell and Elvin Hayes, they signed their contract, which made them ineligible because we were just strictly amateurs at that time. And so then we got down to the Olympic Village, and you had Pete Maravich averaging 44 points a game, Rick Mount, 39 points, Calvin Murphy, 33, and they got cut.

[Interviewer/Podcast Host]

What?

[Spencer Haywood]

I know.

[Interviewer/Podcast Host]

Politics, huh?

[Spencer Haywood]

Politics. No, I call it politics.

[Interviewer/Podcast Host]

But anyway, it'd be like that with the Olympic teams, though.

[Spencer Haywood]

So you know that. Yeah, you know it. You may be crazy, but you ain't no fool.

[Interviewer/Podcast Host]

Nah. Just because. Just. Just because you have the talent doesn't mean you're making the team, right?

[Spencer Haywood]

No, no. So much politics.

[Interviewer/Podcast Host]

It's a lot more that goes into it.

[Spencer Haywood]

Yeah. So that's when I emerged as this great player. And the weird thing about it is, when I received the gold medal, I'm standing on the podium and people are cheering, bravo, Hayward, bravo. Bravo. And I was, like, crying, because three years before, I was a slave picking cotton in Silver city, Mississippi, for $2 a day. And now I am on the grandest stage in the world right now with a gold medal on my neck. America, we get a lot of. We get a lot of slack about America and Ship from time to time, but you cannot rise anyplace else than America.

[Interviewer/Podcast Host]

Dream.

[Spencer Haywood]

Just what it is.

[Interviewer/Podcast Host]

What a story.

[Spencer Haywood]

Yeah.

[Interviewer/Podcast Host]

Did you feel pretty safe during the Olympics walking around, or was it pretty.

[Spencer Haywood]

Yeah, we was in a compound. Okay. And we had protesters outside. We had seven shootings. What, in. Yeah, in Mexico City.

[Interviewer/Podcast Host]

Wow.

[Spencer Haywood]

Because the students there were rioting. We had Kent State. They had the riots there in Ohio,

[Interviewer/Podcast Host]

just for black people competing. They were rioting.

[Spencer Haywood]

No, this was for just Vietnam War, everything.

[Interviewer/Podcast Host]

Oh, wow. Holy crap. That's nuts. Meanwhile, you're playing basketball.

[Spencer Haywood]

We had the riots in Detroit just finished, you know, and they burned down that city. We had the riots in Newark, New Jersey. I grew up in Jersey. Okay, well, that was.

[Interviewer/Podcast Host]

Newark's dangerous.

[Spencer Haywood]

Yeah. I'm just saying.

[Interviewer/Podcast Host]

Yeah.

[Spencer Haywood]

But it was. It was just riots everywhere. Los Angeles, throughout other cities. And that. That particular year, 1968. Wow. What a year.

[Interviewer/Podcast Host]

What a year.

[Spencer Haywood]

Yeah.

[Interviewer/Podcast Host]

Was that your favorite championship? Because I know you got an NBA title, too.

[Spencer Haywood]

Yeah, because, you know, I was representing the country. I wasn't representing just the American team. Right. So that. And it was also my platform, which raised me out of the cotton field all the way up to the.

[Interviewer/Podcast Host]

Who would have thought?

[Spencer Haywood]

It was the great. Who would have thought. Yeah.

[Interviewer/Podcast Host]

So you got to retire. Your mom.

[Spencer Haywood]

Yeah. You know the weird thing about my mom, the first thing I did, I built her a home. And she wouldn't let me build it like I wanted to, because she didn't want to outshine the white people in our little town.

[Interviewer/Podcast Host]

Really?

[Spencer Haywood]

Oh, no.

[Interviewer/Podcast Host]

So she was humble.

[Spencer Haywood]

She was humble. And so we built this house, and everything was fine. You know, her church friends would come, and they would do Saturday cards and whatever. And my mom was picking cotton all those years, so everybody else would go to the cotton field, and she was at home alone, just, you know, like a rich lady, sitting at her house. She said, I'm going into the cotton field. Not that deep.

[Interviewer/Podcast Host]

That's crazy.

[Spencer Haywood]

Yeah, but that's where she was. She was at home, and all her life, that's all she knew. And to be sitting at home trying to watch a soap opera wasn't her bag. She wanted to be out in the fields, because in the fields you had. People were singing. They were, you know, like, it was work now. Hard, brutal, stash work. You were singing gospel songs. You were singing songs of hope, and you're working, and. And so it was like it's what you grew up with. And to take it all away at one time and say, oh, you're living on the big hill over here. You're a rich lady here.

[Interviewer/Podcast Host]

Yeah.

[Spencer Haywood]

And then the last thing about that journey of her is I was. I had money set aside for her in her bank account in Bells Horny, which is five miles from Silver City. Because Silver City, we don't have no banks. We don't have nothing. Just cotton fields. And it ain't no city and it ain't no silver. Just cotton peel. Silver city. So my mother. I come home, my brothers, we were just hanging out, and I went to check on her account. Every penny I had sent her was. Hadn't been touched.

[Interviewer/Podcast Host]

Wow.

[Spencer Haywood]

And I said to her, why are you not living? Why are you not spending the money? She said, because I'm saving this money in case something happened with you. I'll have your back.

[Interviewer/Podcast Host]

Wow. That's deep.

[Spencer Haywood]

Deep. That's crazy deep.

[Interviewer/Podcast Host]

There's not a lot of parents that would do that.

[Spencer Haywood]

No. But we struggled all of those years to get out of the cotton field. She went back into the cotton field and she saved every penny that I sent her. Yeah.

[Interviewer/Podcast Host]

Insane. So she never spent it?

[Spencer Haywood]

No.

[Interviewer/Podcast Host]

Wow. And did you end up needing it?

[Spencer Haywood]

No, no.

[Interviewer/Podcast Host]

Wow.

[Spencer Haywood]

No.

[Interviewer/Podcast Host]

That's. That's incredible. What a. What a mother right there, man.

[Spencer Haywood]

Yeah.

[Interviewer/Podcast Host]

She raised you well.

[Spencer Haywood]

Yeah, well, very well. And it was ten of us, you know. Ten of you? Yeah. It wasn't like no half, half of a game.

[Interviewer/Podcast Host]

It's like a lot.

[Spencer Haywood]

It's like a full five on five. Yeah.

[Interviewer/Podcast Host]

You all played basketball growing up?

[Spencer Haywood]

Yeah. Well, we didn't play basketball conventional way, but down in Silver City there was no basketball, so we had to make one.

[Interviewer/Podcast Host]

Wow.

[Spencer Haywood]

And my mother made a ball out of a gunne sack. Sort of like Chuck Berry rookie wood on a gunny sack, you know, so carried his guitar in a gun. He sack. It's a croaker sack with potatoes in it. So she put that together, put cotton in it, put everything in it. She said. Now one thing though, sons no fighting. Follow your rules that you set up and the ball don't mouse.

[Interviewer/Podcast Host]

So you got to learn how to pass.

[Spencer Haywood]

You have to learn how to pass. When did you start taking? You start talking about you take two bops, one to pass or shoot. Now you couldn't hardly miss the basket because we didn't have a real rim. We had a barrel rim up with some strings tied on the side to hold it up. So it's that big, you know. That's crazy. So that's how we started playing basketball.

[Interviewer/Podcast Host]

When did you touch a real basketball? How old were you?

[Spencer Haywood]

It was like the following year. We lived near the dump yard, the garbage dump. And people would throw away all of their garbage dump. So we found that rim and we was like, we got a rim.

[Interviewer/Podcast Host]

Wow.

[Spencer Haywood]

We got a rim. Man, look at that rim. So we got that rim, we brought it home and we fixed up the backboard. We was like, oh man, it would be nice to get a ball. Lo and behold, like, like about a week later, somebody threw out a vault V O L T basketball. We was like, wow. And all we had had to do was to patch it. Put a patch on it. Yeah, it was air, you know, the air was out of it. We fixed that.

[LinkedIn Hiring Pro Announcer]

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[Arch Manning]

That hologram trading card. One of the rarest. The last one I needed for my set.

[LinkedIn Hiring Pro Announcer]

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[Spencer Haywood]

Ebay had it and now everyone's asking, ooh, where'd you get your windshield wipers? Ebay has all the parts that fit my car. No more annoying, just beautiful. Millions of finds, each with a story. Ebay Things people love out on the road.

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[Spencer Haywood]

What's going on?

[Arch Manning]

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[Spencer Haywood]

Baby up man. Basketball was on.

[Interviewer/Podcast Host]

That is nuts.

[Spencer Haywood]

Basketball was on but you know we still had to work in the field. For eight hours. But anything after that, and between the rain and everything, we played on dirt roads. Wasn't gyms and shit. Yeah. But just the joy of playing. The beauty of hearing that baby go through a net. Because we did find some nets.

[Interviewer/Podcast Host]

Found some at the dump, too.

[Spencer Haywood]

Yeah. Everything was at the dump. It's just a treasure. It's like a treasure. You like whatever you want. Go to the dump yard. Because they were dumping everything from their houses and people from around the country club, which sat over there in Silver City. Yeah.

[Interviewer/Podcast Host]

What else did you find there? That was pretty cool.

[Spencer Haywood]

We found some golf clubs that we fixed up. And since we couldn't play on the golf course there, we went to the. We was the workers for the golf course as well as picking the cotton. So we took the tractor down to this lady's Liddy Goshen, and she said, you can make yourself a little. A little golf course right here. So we took the tractor and mowed our grass down nice. Took the lawnmower from the caddy shack and cut us a green. Golf, baby. Let's go golf, man.

[Interviewer/Podcast Host]

Man, you made it happen.

[Spencer Haywood]

Yeah. And then at dawn. At dawn, before they come over, the people come over, we ran through all of their golf clubs and played golf on the golf course. And they were like, ain't no gonna ever play on this golf course. It was like, yeah, dang. We have been playing on that golf course all of our life. Slipping on.

[Interviewer/Podcast Host]

Yeah. A lot of racism growing up.

[Spencer Haywood]

Oh, it's. Yes. You were just Jim Crow. Yeah, it was that kind of thing. And ironically, the white kids that we grew up with. Yeah, they were like, racist in front of their parents, but we were buddies on the side.

[Interviewer/Podcast Host]

Really? Oh, wow.

[Spencer Haywood]

Yeah.

[Interviewer/Podcast Host]

Interesting.

[Spencer Haywood]

Yeah. Because if they. If their parents saw them being kind and being who they are with us, that's an ass whooping, you know? Right.

[Interviewer/Podcast Host]

Yeah. That generation, man.

[Spencer Haywood]

That generation. So they would, like, be crazy with us and then looking all around. Then we would go on to the tennis court and start banging tennis.

[Interviewer/Podcast Host]

Yeah.

[Spencer Haywood]

Shooting baskets, you know.

[Interviewer/Podcast Host]

Yeah. My grandfather, man, that generation was different.

[Spencer Haywood]

I'm just saying, you know? Yeah.

[Interviewer/Podcast Host]

They just grew up and it was. It was normal.

[Spencer Haywood]

Normal. Yeah.

[Interviewer/Podcast Host]

Yeah. These days I feel like it's. It's changed a lot. Right. People hide it more, but it's not as. Not as blatant.

[Spencer Haywood]

Well, starting to creep his head out again, you saw. Yeah. Because without president, he thrives on division.

[Interviewer/Podcast Host]

Right.

[Spencer Haywood]

So we tend to get a little divided and.

[Interviewer/Podcast Host]

Wow.

[Spencer Haywood]

This is old cartoon. I think it's Bugs Bunny, he was dividing everything up and he kept running away with the big bag. It was. Bag of money.

[Interviewer/Podcast Host]

Yeah. Sounds like someone we know.

[Spencer Haywood]

That's all I'm saying.

[Interviewer/Podcast Host]

Yeah. Someone's making a lot of money right now.

[Spencer Haywood]

Somebody's making a lot of money right now. They're getting away with the bag.

[Interviewer/Podcast Host]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Politics is a whole nother world.

[Spencer Haywood]

Yeah.

[Interviewer/Podcast Host]

You know, you talk about it or do you.

[Spencer Haywood]

Politics. I stay out of it, but I am. I've always been involved in the politics because of my Supreme Court case. Right. I've had to recently. I had to go to Washington, D.C. wow. To speak to the senators and to the. The head of the House. But not Johnson. But the other. Yeah. Hakeem Jeffries. About Nil. And Nil is my ruling, too.

[Interviewer/Podcast Host]

Really?

[Spencer Haywood]

Oh, yeah. So we have Tommy Tuberville. What's the coach used to call? Great coach from Alabama?

[Interviewer/Podcast Host]

Saban.

[Spencer Haywood]

Yeah, Saban. And all those guys meeting with Trump at the White House. They're trying to overturn, and he's putting a bill in to take away all nil and they control it.

[Interviewer/Podcast Host]

Saban's trying to overturn Nil.

[Spencer Haywood]

Hello. What? Tuberville? That's crazy to me. Or Tuberville. That's how he got. Both of them got their start on black athletes and athletes. And now the athletes are getting paid, you know, properly, just out of the. Out of the. The gross amount of money. And then you says, I want to take it away. You're not only taking it away from an athlete, you're taking away from his family. From that family. Right. You know, like a guy, like Joker, if he had came over here when he was young, I mean, you're saying, I'm going to take your money. You can't send anything back to Croatia. Wherever he's from,

[Interviewer/Podcast Host]

I see his perspective because he can't control the players like he used to. He can't talk to them the same way anymore because they're making more. Some of them are making as much as him. Right.

[Spencer Haywood]

Yeah.

[Interviewer/Podcast Host]

They don't listen as well.

[Spencer Haywood]

Well, they don't listen as well. But also you can compromise. You can talk. You don't have to be the big boss. Right. You can be like. Like NBA coaches and some college coaches. But now you got. There is a little catch, though. I do not like. Yeah. I do not like players playing on one team. And the next thing you know, I'm transferring because he looked at me wrong. The coach looked at me wrong. The fans cheered it and cheered to me wrong. And I'M not getting off my shot with this team and I think I'm going to go to Alabama and I get my shot.

[Interviewer/Podcast Host]

It's so easy to transfer now, right?

[Spencer Haywood]

Yeah. But see, you don't get a chance to go through any life lessons when you do that.

[Interviewer/Podcast Host]

True.

[Spencer Haywood]

Your life lessons are like very shallow. Yeah.

[Interviewer/Podcast Host]

You're avoiding them.

[Spencer Haywood]

You're avoiding them. You're just going from one hop to the next hop. Yeah. And so. And then you have players who are playing in college for how many years? Seven, eight years.

[Interviewer/Podcast Host]

A lot. Yeah.

[Spencer Haywood]

The, the NC2A champions this past year. Those guys are older guys.

[Interviewer/Podcast Host]

They had someone that was 26, right?

[Spencer Haywood]

Yeah, he played with, with Georgia. Yeah.

[Interviewer/Podcast Host]

Yeah. I don't know if that's fair. You know, he's playing against.

[Spencer Haywood]

He's 26 and he's playing against an 18 year old.

[Interviewer/Podcast Host]

Yeah. And that 18, you're still developing a lot around that age.

[Spencer Haywood]

So. They also have another guy who went into the NBA, into the G League, played, and now he's back in college.

[Interviewer/Podcast Host]

What? That shouldn't be allowed.

[Spencer Haywood]

I know, I know. But you know, I'm just saying what happened with my ruling?

[Interviewer/Podcast Host]

Yeah, I think so.

[Spencer Haywood]

Some things are wrong. Yeah.

[Interviewer/Podcast Host]

Overall it's good, right?

[Spencer Haywood]

It's all. All. It's all in all, it's good. It's great.

[Interviewer/Podcast Host]

Yeah. But there's some loopholes.

[Spencer Haywood]

They got to work it out because you got like parents and, and parents, agents and so on. Everybody is milking the player. Right. It's like the NC trade was doing before then. I have. Yeah. So now it's the parent and it's the, you know, the sponsor, the agents and the people who are, you know, selling products, they are looking at this kid and say, hey, you know, well,

[Interviewer/Podcast Host]

95% of them don't make it to the pro level. So they're trying to milk them while they're in college because that's four years. They can make some money.

[Spencer Haywood]

Yeah. But also in that four year period, what you're doing, the player don't get a chance to know if he can make it to the pros because he's pampered or she is pampered. So if you say, well, the morning. Good morning. What's good about this morning?

[Interviewer/Podcast Host]

Yeah, we're making a lot.

[Spencer Haywood]

I'm leaving. Like, wait a minute. I said good morning.

[Interviewer/Podcast Host]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I notice though, your generation likes to stay with the same team, Right. You don't like to bounce teams every year. And now it seems like people are getting traded all the time.

[Spencer Haywood]

All the team.

[Interviewer/Podcast Host]

Yeah. Every year there's a bunch of trades.

[Spencer Haywood]

Yeah.

[Interviewer/Podcast Host]

When you were playing, there wasn't that

[Spencer Haywood]

many trades, Right, right. No, it wasn't that many trades. And also our union, the players association union for the NBA, we had a pretty good lockdown that we had. Not like they have it today, but the contracts were like locked in because we were new with the union.

[Interviewer/Podcast Host]

Right.

[Spencer Haywood]

And so therefore you have a three year contract or a four year. They usually gave you a five year contract. Until Oscar Robinson sued the NBA for the rights to travel to another team.

[Interviewer/Podcast Host]

I didn't know that.

[Spencer Haywood]

Yeah. So he had to go to. He didn't go to court, but he went to Congress and he testified before Congress that we should have the rights to move to another team. And at the same time. At the same time I was in court, Kurt Flood was doing it in baseball. And because he played the. For the St. Louis Cardinals and then playing with them, he could not move. So they decided, well, look, wait a minute. You know, he said, I gotta. I gotta sue y' all to get. So I can move. And that's what happened with him.

[Interviewer/Podcast Host]

Wow.

[Spencer Haywood]

That's baseball. That's baseball in basketball. Yeah.

[Interviewer/Podcast Host]

That's nuts. Yeah. Teams had more power than the players back then.

[Spencer Haywood]

Oh, God. Teams over there. Come on, man.

[Interviewer/Podcast Host]

Yeah.

[Spencer Haywood]

Like a little bit higher than picking cotton.

[Interviewer/Podcast Host]

Damn. It was like that.

[Spencer Haywood]

Yeah.

[Interviewer/Podcast Host]

Wow.

[Spencer Haywood]

I mean, you had to. You were locked in and you had to take what they would give you. And here I come trying to change all of this and change the. Completely. And then later on, Oscar Robinson said, I want to change it so that we can have the rights to move. He was the head of the union, so he changed it so you can move from team to team, you know.

[Interviewer/Podcast Host]

And now do you think the players have more power than the teams?

[Spencer Haywood]

Oh, yeah, they. They have. They're doing what, 40. I think it's 49. 51.

[Interviewer/Podcast Host]

Really?

[Spencer Haywood]

Yeah.

[Interviewer/Podcast Host]

Wow.

[Spencer Haywood]

Owners get 59. 51. And players get 49.

[Interviewer/Podcast Host]

Wow. That's almost even.

[Spencer Haywood]

That's power.

[Interviewer/Podcast Host]

Yeah.

[Spencer Haywood]

Yeah. And they get all of the new contracts and everything, but unfortunately for those players, they don't know anything about history, about, you know, they know a little bit. Some of them do. But to know about Spencer Haywood, Oscar Robinson, they don't know.

[Interviewer/Podcast Host]

Well, the NBA probably suppresses that. Right. From them.

[Spencer Haywood]

Of course. Of course. You know, Come on.

[Interviewer/Podcast Host]

They're not learning about that when they're playing basketball. Yeah. You know, but you paved the way, man. Look how much these guys are making now. It's Crazy.

[Spencer Haywood]

Yeah. Well, we estimated last year what the number was. The number was $67 billion from 1971 until today.

[Interviewer/Podcast Host]

What, in NBA salaries or all sports? All.

[Spencer Haywood]

No, just NBA salaries.

[Interviewer/Podcast Host]

Okay.

[Spencer Haywood]

I haven't went to. I haven't went to the NFL. Wow.

[Interviewer/Podcast Host]

And.

[Spencer Haywood]

And I can walk in a room. They like, who the hell is that? On through.

[Interviewer/Podcast Host]

That's crazy. Give this man his flowers, guys.

[Spencer Haywood]

I know, but, you know, especially black athletes, we and black people, we tend to not want to know our history, really. We not want to give flowers to the people who come came before us. And we treat us like. They treat me like doo doo.

[Interviewer/Podcast Host]

Wow.

[Spencer Haywood]

And so for an example, there was a hockey player and there was another soccer player that did wonderful things for them. They lived large afterwards because the players just said, oh, my God, we're going to take care of our God. Me and Oscar Robinson was still traveling around like a Travis Circle.

[Interviewer/Podcast Host]

Wow.

[Spencer Haywood]

Like a traveling circus.

[Interviewer/Podcast Host]

That's interesting. Why do you think it's like that with that community?

[Spencer Haywood]

Because we. We still tend to hover around the slave mentality. And I don't want to give you no respect. I recently had a player curse me out like a dog.

[Interviewer/Podcast Host]

Really?

[Spencer Haywood]

Yeah. I mean, 12 times. Well, I won't go into it because I'm a board of director member on the players association. But this player also, it's under the Spencer Hayward rule. He played for 18 years under my ruling.

[Interviewer/Podcast Host]

Wow.

[Spencer Haywood]

And he did that to me.

[Interviewer/Podcast Host]

Holy crap.

[Spencer Haywood]

And a board meeting.

[Interviewer/Podcast Host]

That's crazy. That is crazy.

[Spencer Haywood]

I know. How crazy is that?

[Interviewer/Podcast Host]

He must have not have known. There's no.

[Spencer Haywood]

No, he know.

[Interviewer/Podcast Host]

Oh, he knew.

[Spencer Haywood]

He know. But he's in a denial because I asked him afterwards, I said, why would you talk to me such harsh ways? And I paved the way for you. And he kept going around him. No. LeBron James. That's who it was. Yeah. I said, all righty, then.

[Interviewer/Podcast Host]

People bring up LeBron and Kobe a lot.

[Spencer Haywood]

Yeah. You're foolish thirsty in an abundance of water.

[Interviewer/Podcast Host]

Yeah.

[Spencer Haywood]

Yeah.

[Interviewer/Podcast Host]

I hear Kobe because. Or LeBron came out of high school, Right?

[Spencer Haywood]

Yeah. They think it's all about high school.

[Interviewer/Podcast Host]

High school.

[Spencer Haywood]

Yeah. And because they want to push down those guys came out of high school, you're, like, less than me because I played two years in college. Right. It's called Jim Crowism that blacks have been placed under. We can never grow like we should in America because we're constantly pushing each other down, pulling each other down. It's like crab barrel mentality, you know, like, if you get out that barrel to the top. Believe me, I'm pulling your ass back in here. So you get all the way up to the top and you're like, oh, made it. Whoops. Back into the barrel.

[Interviewer/Podcast Host]

That's a shame because certain communities are so tight, right?

[Spencer Haywood]

I mean, other communities are tight. We see it happening now with the younger African American people.

[Interviewer/Podcast Host]

Oh, yeah.

[Spencer Haywood]

But we got a long way to go.

[Interviewer/Podcast Host]

Trauma, right? It's. It's got to be generational trauma.

[Spencer Haywood]

It is generational trauma. The slave trade was brutal. Yeah, I was a brutal, soft man to take a person from.

[LinkedIn Hiring Pro Announcer]

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[Arch Manning]

And there it was, that hologram trading card. One of the rarest. The last one I needed for my set.

[LinkedIn Hiring Pro Announcer]

Shiny like the designer handbag of my dreams. One of a kind.

[Spencer Haywood]

Ebay had it. And now everyone's asking, ooh, where'd you get your windshield wipers? Ebay has all the parts that fit my car. No more annoying, just beautiful. Millions of finds, each with a story. EBay. Things people love out on the road.

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[Healthcare/Vivgard Advertiser]

I like things my way, my coffee, my schedule and my treatment. So I talked to my doctor about self injecting with the Vivgard Hytrulo pre filled syringe which contains fgartegamide alpha and hyaluronidase qvfc. It's injected under your skin subcutaneously. It means I can inject in my space on my time. It's my treatment my way. Visit vivgardmyway.com that's V-Y-V-G-A-R-T myway.com and talk to your doctor about Vivgart Hyrulo. Brought to you by Argenics.

[Spencer Haywood]

What's going on?

[Arch Manning]

I'm Arch Manning, Vuori athlete and college quarterback. Whether I'm running, training, traveling or just unwinding at home, I love doing it in my core shorts from Vuori. With a breathable box of brief liner, they're quick to dry, super versatile and stand up to even my most intense training sessions. Plus they come in three inseams and a ton of colors. Ready to try a pair? Go to vuori.com arch and get 20% off at checkout. I think you're going to love them as much as I do. That's V-U-O-R-I.com arch and get 20% off your first order. Exclusions apply. Visit the website for full terms and conditions. Not only will you receive 20% off your first purchase, enjoy free shipping on any US orders over $75 and free returns.

[Spencer Haywood]

Have a great day out of Africa. Put them on a boat knowing that I'll say 20% of you going to die on, on the boat for starvation or throw it out to the sharks. That's why the sharks followed the boats, still the hurricanes. And everything is still based upon that slave trade. Then when you get here, they bring you out to Wall street or wherever and the auction you are and your family go one way, you go another way and then you go to a cotton field and then they beat you into submission and you just work, work, work. And you work so hard that you don't, you don't get a chance to do anything productive because you can, but you can fight your next person that's a slave right there because they had slave fights and fighting to death. What? Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. I didn't know that was a fight to death. And then they had butt breaking. Butt breaking is when a person talked up to the big boss and he like, you eyeballing me, boy. What are you doing looking at me? Then they strip his clothes down and they bust him in the butt.

[Interviewer/Podcast Host]

Wow.

[Spencer Haywood]

And in front of the family and everybody else. So he is like, he's.

[Interviewer/Podcast Host]

You don't recover from that.

[Spencer Haywood]

He don't recover. So all of these things we have never seek to ever deal with therapy. My God, are you crazy? I remember when I went, when I started going into therapy like 42 years ago, everybody I was excited, man. All the players I knew, man, you got to get on this, man. It is so nice you could talk about all your stuff. You've been buried down in your life, blah, blah, blah. It said, I always knew you were crazy.

[Interviewer/Podcast Host]

Yeah. Well, there. Now every team has a therapist.

[Spencer Haywood]

I'm just saying back then, you were early. That was way early.

[Interviewer/Podcast Host]

Way too early.

[Spencer Haywood]

Way too early. But they all said to me one thing. I knew. I knew you were crazy.

[Interviewer/Podcast Host]

Yeah. Therapist in the 70s, 80s. That's, like, unheard of. Yeah. You know, even now, it's a little. People are ashamed to admit now, but.

[Spencer Haywood]

Right.

[Interviewer/Podcast Host]

I feel like it gives you an edge.

[Spencer Haywood]

Gives you an edge.

[Interviewer/Podcast Host]

Yeah.

[Spencer Haywood]

Certain players helps you out and stuff like that. It helps you great. But back to the. To the black community. We still have the competition going. Like when. When they would say, I fight Saturday night, and you had to fight somebody bigger or whatever. We still doing that fight out of the Cotton Field. So that's why it transfers into guys making $50 million a year, $100 million a year, but they still fighting like we're in the Cottonville.

[Interviewer/Podcast Host]

Did you ever feel that way? Were you ever jealous of people making a lot?

[Spencer Haywood]

No. I wanted. That's why I fought for. I was the one who fought for. For them to make the money, to get that money, to do good with that money. And I like what a lot of them are doing. I mean, I've been impressed with Michael Jordan. He's got this health care program down in Carolina where he's giving free health care to all the Carolinians.

[Interviewer/Podcast Host]

Wow. I didn't know that.

[Spencer Haywood]

Yeah. LeBron James is doing so much through Akron, but all around the world, he's doing a lot. Jokish is rebuilding his country. Same thing with Luca. Oh, man, I'm so proud of my guys. They're impacting the world. And so those guys, in particular, the European players, they see me and they learn about the story. They hug me with gusto.

[Interviewer/Podcast Host]

Really?

[Spencer Haywood]

Yeah. Like, recently, I was at the All Star Game, and Jokic and Luka was like, come, come. The savior just holding me. And I was like, what's going on, guys? But it was. They see the picture differently because it's a European mindset. It's not a competition. Black set. Whereas black folks, they're like, eh, I know what he did, but I'm not gonna give him no hug. Fuck that. That's crazy.

[Interviewer/Podcast Host]

Yeah. Cause they couldn't have played in the league back then, right?

[Spencer Haywood]

They couldn't have played in the league. They wouldn't have had the teams because once I won my case, the NBA started expanding from the 14, 16, 18, all the way up to 30 because you had a pool in which to pull from. Before me, you had no pool. Like I said, players would go away to college. They get hurt. I mean a lot of things happen while that four year period was going on. They got a. The girlfriend pregnant, then they married. They had to go into the factory and the General Motors and Fords and so on. So I had to go to work. Great players, but the four year rule was not a good rule. But now in, in baseball, it did not exist. Hockey, it do not exist. Tennis, it do not exist. And all other sports, tiddlywinks or whatever else but the two revenue sports. God, we love slave labor. We love that in America.

[Interviewer/Podcast Host]

Yeah, we love it.

[Spencer Haywood]

We've all tote that barge, lip that bell.

[Interviewer/Podcast Host]

Yep. Now we're replacing people with AI ta da. We love that here. Capitalism.

[Spencer Haywood]

Capitalism, baby.

[Interviewer/Podcast Host]

Yeah, I'll put that before. We'll put making money before people's livelihoods. Yeah, yeah.

[Spencer Haywood]

We want $1.5 trillion for war and want to take the money from health care, Social Security and all other things that help people snap everything. We're going to take all of that.

[Interviewer/Podcast Host]

Yeah. I don't think I'm going to get Social Security. I think we're going to be out by then.

[Spencer Haywood]

No, you're going to get it.

[Interviewer/Podcast Host]

You think so?

[Spencer Haywood]

Somebody, it's going to come along maybe in this next election if we do have one. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And everything is going to change back to beauty and glory because we have the system set up. We just went into this demonic place right now. It's a real demonic spirit out and around because you want to blow up a whole country.

[Interviewer/Podcast Host]

He's tweeting it.

[Spencer Haywood]

Yeah, I know.

[Interviewer/Podcast Host]

Crazy.

[Spencer Haywood]

He was close to doing it.

[Interviewer/Podcast Host]

Pushing the button 8:00pm yesterday.

[Spencer Haywood]

Yeah, yeah, it was going to push the button.

[Interviewer/Podcast Host]

Now we got another two week period, he said.

[Spencer Haywood]

But then, but then somebody decided that they would want to like they wasn't going to stop the war because you got three partners here. You're not just talking America. Yeah, Iran, but you got to deal with Israel as well.

[Interviewer/Podcast Host]

So we seem to be getting out in a lot of worse because of them. That's a whole nother podcast.

[Spencer Haywood]

Oh, another podcast.

[Interviewer/Podcast Host]

The game's evolved a lot, obviously. How much do you think you could score in today's game? How much do you think you could average?

[Spencer Haywood]

But traveling, palming the ball, Ticky tack files. Yeah. I could still do my 30 and 20.

[Interviewer/Podcast Host]

Still 30.

[Spencer Haywood]

30 and 20.

[Interviewer/Podcast Host]

Wow.

[Spencer Haywood]

Yeah.

[Interviewer/Podcast Host]

Could you shoot threes?

[Spencer Haywood]

Yeah, I can shoot threes. Okay. But I didn't shoot them.

[Interviewer/Podcast Host]

Yeah, no one did back then.

[Spencer Haywood]

Nobody. Because it's illegal. What are you doing way out here shooting a three point shot? Boy, I'm sending you down to the Continental League. In the Continental League. I'm sending you down there shooting way out there. You out of your mind.

[Interviewer/Podcast Host]

So different game.

[Spencer Haywood]

Different game. But, you know, all in all, the basketball has just been so fabulous since I watched the NBA. The way they play and how hard they play is different because they moving so fast and so much wear and tear. They putting on more mileage than we did as players because we will walk it up. Do a scissors cut, then back door, nothing happening on the back door. And another player come around the corner and you get a nice little jump shot and then you throw it in. Oh, I can't advance it too fast. We don't want to run the coach into the ground. So. Yeah, I love, I love watching faster pace now. I love, I love watching the players. They are so. They are so talented.

[Interviewer/Podcast Host]

Yeah, they could all donk. All shoot.

[Spencer Haywood]

Yeah. But they talented, man. They. They got their bodies all right. They're eating right. They look good and they play. The skin is not like my skin was back in the day. It's like they take care of themselves. I. I love. I love NBA basketball right now. I appreciate the players. I do not down the players, you know, like, well, they would never have played back in my time. They would kill Diaz.

[Interviewer/Podcast Host]

John Sally said the same thing.

[Spencer Haywood]

They would have. Please.

[Interviewer/Podcast Host]

Yeah, he said the same thing.

[Spencer Haywood]

Police.

[Interviewer/Podcast Host]

I mean, the money's there now, so there's just more talent.

[Spencer Haywood]

There's just more talent. But they are better. They're better. Like, if you think like everything that happens in America. So we stayed in the 20s, that's what we're saying as old school ball players that are like, you know, who don't want to admit that these guys are better. Well, I could do this in 1945 or 19. I'm like, we had on Converse shoes. No. No cushioning, no nothing. I mean, these guys are running double the amount of mileage that we ran during a time we were playing.

[Interviewer/Podcast Host]

Yeah.

[Spencer Haywood]

And you know, the game has evolved into something beautiful and special. It's international. Oh, gosh, man. Yeah.

[Interviewer/Podcast Host]

Who knows who's going to win the Olympics in 28 countries are. So other countries are catching up, right?

[Spencer Haywood]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Interviewer/Podcast Host]

The last one was close.

[Spencer Haywood]

Well, we're celebrating 60 years. This in the Olympics and in Los Angeles.

[Interviewer/Podcast Host]

Yeah.

[Spencer Haywood]

Six day Olympics. Yeah.

[Interviewer/Podcast Host]

It's going to be a big one.

[Spencer Haywood]

It's going to be a big one, man.

[Interviewer/Podcast Host]

Last one. We barely won. Steph Curry had to go prime.

[Spencer Haywood]

Steph Curry, prime.

[Interviewer/Podcast Host]

He had to pop off, but the

[Spencer Haywood]

King was there too, to make sure.

[Interviewer/Podcast Host]

But now the king's 41.

[Spencer Haywood]

He ain't going. He's. He got. He got the system beat.

[Interviewer/Podcast Host]

Yeah. You think he'll play in 28? He going to play 43.

[Spencer Haywood]

He's going to play in 28. And then he's going to come here to Las Vegas, play with his sons on the new Las Vegas Jacks or whatever they are. Yeah, play with both of them. Then he's going to retire and then become management here.

[Interviewer/Podcast Host]

I would love that. That'd be great for Vegas.

[Spencer Haywood]

I know, I'm just predicting just a hype, just the hype, you know, But I mean, he and Magic and, and Shaquille o' Neal are the three guys who look like they possibly could get, you know, the team, not the whole franchise, but like maybe 49 or 51%.

[Interviewer/Podcast Host]

Wow.

[Spencer Haywood]

Because if you do that, because you got it, you have to share it. I mean, we have, we have like, I think it's like 50 billionaires here in Vegas and you have the whales coming in from China and you have the money bags coming in from Saudi Arabia and all out through the Middle East. You got to share this.

[Interviewer/Podcast Host]

Yeah. Teams are worth billions now. Yeah, I think. Did MJ just sell his the Hornets or is that confirmed yet?

[Spencer Haywood]

Yeah, he sold it. Magic got a good payout with the Lakers. They sold for $10 billion and Celtics sold for 7 billion. Wow. And so to enter into the NBA, the two expansion team, Las Vegas and Seattle, the price is set between 7 to 10 billion dollars to enter. And so you're looking at Maybe the

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[Arch Manning]

That hologram trading card. One of the rarest. The last one I needed for my set.

[LinkedIn Hiring Pro Announcer]

Shiny like the designer handbag of my dreams. One of a kind.

[Spencer Haywood]

Ebay had it and now everyone's asking, ooh, where'd you get your windshield wipers? Ebay has all the parts that fit my car. No more annoying, just beautiful. Millions of finds, each with a story. EBay. Things people love out on the road.

[Love's Rewards Announcer]

It helps to have a partner like the Love's Rewards app. Download Love's Rewards today to get sweet discounts and earn points on food, fuel, drinks and more. Every time you scan Love's Rewards. Save and earn at every turn. Terms apply. See website for details.

[Healthcare/Vivgard Advertiser]

I like things my way. My coffee, my schedule and my treatment. So I talked to my doctor about self injecting with the Vivgard Hydrulo pre filled syringe which contains fgartegamide alpha and hyaluronidase qvfc. It's injected under your skin subcutaneously. It means I can inject in my space, on my time. It's my treatment, my way. Visit vivgardmyway.com that's vyvgarte my way.com and talk to your doctor about Vivgard Hyrulo. Brought to you by Argenics what's going on?

[Arch Manning]

I'm Archie Manning, Vuori athlete and college quarterback. Whether I'm running, training, traveling or just unwinding at home, I love doing it in my core shorts from Vuori. With a breathable box of brief liner. They're quick to dry, super versatile and stand up to even my most intense training sessions. Plus they come in three inseams and a ton of colors. Ready to try a pair? Go to vuori.com arch and get 20% off at checkout. I think you're going to love them as much as I do. That's vu r I.com arch and get 20% off your first order. Exclusions apply. Visit the website for full terms and conditions. Not only will you receive 20% off your first purchase, but enjoy free shipping on any US orders over $75 and free returns. Have a great day.

[Spencer Haywood]

I'm thinking 8 to 9 billion dollars, maybe 10 to get in.

[Interviewer/Podcast Host]

Wow.

[Spencer Haywood]

Yeah.

[Interviewer/Podcast Host]

That's insane

[Spencer Haywood]

basketball, sir. Yeah, it's the way of sports and it's so wonderful. I mean, I just look back and say, wow, I had a chance to to do something spectacular and to be a part of this.

[Interviewer/Podcast Host]

Look what you did. You're going to go down in the history books.

[Spencer Haywood]

Yes.

[Interviewer/Podcast Host]

For real.

[Spencer Haywood]

For real. So all of these times that I. I was sick to my stomach and hurting from the experience of, like, players don't like me, don't know my name. Don't do this. It's coming. Yeah, it's coming. It's a funny thing. There was this movie out called, called the Lakers Story. It was called Showtime, The.

[Interviewer/Podcast Host]

The Showtime show.

[Spencer Haywood]

Showtime, Showtime, Lakers or something. Yeah, I heard hbo.

[Interviewer/Podcast Host]

Yeah.

[Spencer Haywood]

So my character was like a bad character.

[Interviewer/Podcast Host]

Oh, really?

[Spencer Haywood]

So I was. I was in a different stage. I was getting high back then on. On that team that year, and Wood Harris played me, so I was kind of embarrassed about my portrayal. And Magic was mad. Kareem, everybody was mad. Then I watched it and watched it over and over, and I said, I'm not mad. It's just me telling the truth. And so Kareem had his 75th birthday with the Lakers and everybody. We had OKC and the Lakers playing and Kareem. We had Herbie Hancock. We had everybody out on the floor. And so the teens were coming back out on the floor. I'm thinking, man, they're going to go run over to Kareem and say, Cap 75. They all ran to me and I was like, what's going on? And they says, winning time, man. You were the dude that made it possible for me. And I was like, wow. God is so great. Because he took something that I thought would be the worst, turned out to be the best. So all the players now watch that series and say, I like that Spencer Haywood dude. Ain't that crazy? Yeah, that's beautiful, man. The universe is so beautiful. It gives you what. May not gives you what you want, but it gives you what you need.

[Interviewer/Podcast Host]

Yeah.

[Spencer Haywood]

Yeah.

[Interviewer/Podcast Host]

So you're cool with all your former teammates now?

[Spencer Haywood]

I was always cool with them.

[Interviewer/Podcast Host]

Oh, yeah, yeah.

[Spencer Haywood]

We go to. In fact, we're going to the Bahamas this year. Last year we went to Hawaii. And so Magic Pat Riley sets it up. Set it up, along with Jenny Buss. And we got. We have a Laker reunion.

[Interviewer/Podcast Host]

Oh, that's awesome.

[Spencer Haywood]

Showtime, guys. So we go and spend 10 days together. Then we go and I guess it was Smith's mixed with a little politics on Expo because we're going to the Bahamas. Michael Thompson. What's his name, dad? The Shooter. The Shooter. Golden State.

[Interviewer/Podcast Host]

Oh, Clay.

[Spencer Haywood]

Clay Thompson's dad. I think he wants to start trying to get ready to be a prime minister down there.

[Interviewer/Podcast Host]

Wow.

[Spencer Haywood]

In the Bahamas. Because he's from the Bahamas. So is Rick Fox. Rick Fox is running for senate in the Bahamas. So we're going. All of us. Lakers are going down and, like, we going to be, like, walking around with our hats on, like one of those little round hats like that they do at the conventions here. Yeah, the DNC and the rnc. Hey, vote for us. We'll set you free. Rap on, brother.

[Interviewer/Podcast Host]

Yeah, you guys definitely stand out. There are ten, six foot eight guys walking around. Yeah. Yeah.

[Spencer Haywood]

So that's going to be a nice trip. We do a lot of good fellowshipping. We pray. We have breakfast in the morning with each other. We do lunch together, we do dinner, then we sit down and at the end of the trip, we get up and tell our life stories.

[Interviewer/Podcast Host]

Really?

[Spencer Haywood]

Oh, yeah.

[Interviewer/Podcast Host]

It's cool. You guys are still close like that.

[Spencer Haywood]

They're close.

[Interviewer/Podcast Host]

You know, I don't see that with a lot of teammates.

[Spencer Haywood]

No, we. Michael Jordan called Magic and, like, we gonna do one next, and Magic said, you can't. Y' all don't get along. Yeah, it's like Magic. You don't have to say it so bluntly.

[Interviewer/Podcast Host]

Yeah. Different types of leadership.

[Spencer Haywood]

Yeah.

[Interviewer/Podcast Host]

Right. Yeah. MJ was more a fear based leader.

[Spencer Haywood]

Fear based. Yeah.

[Interviewer/Podcast Host]

You guys were more camaraderie.

[Spencer Haywood]

Camaraderie, right.

[Interviewer/Podcast Host]

Magic was pretty chill out of my chill.

[Spencer Haywood]

Always pumping you up, though. Yeah. I used to get. I used to get so mad at him, really. Because I would be. I was using coke at that time.

[Interviewer/Podcast Host]

Yeah.

[Spencer Haywood]

So he would, like, be beating me up. Would. You're losing your hands. Which I was.

[Interviewer/Podcast Host]

You're. They were numb, right?

[Spencer Haywood]

They were just numb and was like. I didn't have my coordination. So he would always doing the game. And I'm watching him out of the corner. My. I'm gonna get this. So. So. So he would, like, hit me with one of them beautiful pass that chest high right in my. And I was like, fumble up. And he would look at me and Kareem would look at me like. And I was like, no, wait, wait until. Wait. The film session. So we go into a film session and it was like, see, Spence, you dropped the ball. They were. Wood, you know, was my name. But Wood, you dropped the ball right there. See what I'm saying? Something you're doing at night, you got to cool out. I'm like, y' all know what I'm doing. But, hey, so then you're not rebounding much as well either. So I said, first of all, Magic, your past to me have too much spin on it, you know? And you're in that state. You're in a denial state, so. And then. Yeah. And Kareem, let me tell you something, brother. Every time you throw your sky hook, I normally go to the opposite side of the basket and that's where it come off. But yours has been rimming out the other way. So that's why I'm not getting a lot of rebounds. He said, you so full of shit. You are the worst. And I was like, oh, gosh, wow, I gotta get some help.

[Interviewer/Podcast Host]

How did you get out of that mindset?

[Spencer Haywood]

Well, I mean, I went to Italy for a year, got very clean and sober, came back to America and was killing them in worshiping. And the next year, my wife, Iman, the model, she was in an automobile accident and I had to come home because I had. They are from Somalia. My daughter was there, my young daughter. I had her two sisters living with us from Somalia, so. So that's when I quit basketball. Came home to take care of my wife.

[Interviewer/Podcast Host]

Boss, you left the game?

[Spencer Haywood]

I left the game, yeah. Well, they wouldn't let me back. How come?

[Interviewer/Podcast Host]

Because of the.

[Spencer Haywood]

Because I fought them some years before to get into the league. And the next thing, I was going to do a tryout with the Detroit Pistons because I was at home. My dad who raised me was. Was the assistant general manager of the Pistons. So when I got there, they gave me one day of practice and said, oh, you're out of here. And I was trying to figure out, wait a minute, I'm an all pro player. What do you think? One day. But the hit was in and I realized, Alice, we finally got you, buddy Long battle. We finally got you, buddy Long battle. Yeah.

[Interviewer/Podcast Host]

Wow. So you left during your prime. So did you have any what if thoughts of like.

[Spencer Haywood]

Yeah, I did. I. I did have what if, but what? I couldn't do anything because again, I'm in therapy now. So I'm like, oh, shit. I can't blame it on nobody. Can't do this. I got to take responsibility for myself. So I worked my way through it.

[Interviewer/Podcast Host]

I must have been tough.

[Spencer Haywood]

No, I started building housing and apartments and stuff in Detroit and I went into my building aspect of my life and I built some nice projects there. Still standing, still rolling. Yeah.

[Interviewer/Podcast Host]

You did well in Detroit.

[Spencer Haywood]

Yeah. And I raised my. My oldest daughter because Iman was still working with modeling. So she allowed me to have my daughter and I was a senior parent with her for a while. Then I got married to Linda and we had two more daughters. And in between my marriages, I had another daughter. So I had four girls. And so I was raising my daughters and I was like, you girls can be better than the Williams sisters. I'm going to be your coach. Me, oh, my son, they were playing tennis and working out real hard. They were going at it. Going at it. I was like, yeah, tough sport. Yeah, but they were good. They was, like, working and they were. They athletes, they basketball. They ended up being playing basketball and

[Interviewer/Podcast Host]

tennis is tough, though. Only the top 10 make a. I

[Spencer Haywood]

know, but I wasn't thinking about them like that. I was thinking about me. I traveled to the French Open, to Wimbledon. What about me? These girls, okay. So they caught on and they quit on me. And one day they just said, we know what you're up to, and we're not going to play. We're going to play. One played college tennis, NC2A Division 1. But the others of all things basketball.

[Interviewer/Podcast Host]

Welcome back.

[Spencer Haywood]

Welcome back. So I raised my daughters. I have two doctors.

[Interviewer/Podcast Host]

Wow.

[Spencer Haywood]

One is a psychiatrist.

[Interviewer/Podcast Host]

Well done.

[Spencer Haywood]

She used to go to my meetings with my doc and sit there and said, that's a little kid. And that's what she wanted to be all of her life, helping people like her dad was getting help. So she became one of the greatest in the country now.

[Interviewer/Podcast Host]

Incredible, Incredible. You did well, man. You could tell a lot about a person, about their kids.

[Spencer Haywood]

And my next daughter, she. She wanted to be a professor, so she's a professor at Lincoln University and also at Bowie State. My next daughter, she runs Iman Inc. The cosmetic and the HSN and all that stuff. And then my youngest daughter, she graduated here with a master's unlv. Unlv. And she been with Bleacher Report. Wow. Slam. And up in Portland now with. With Adidas reporter. What did she do? No, no, she's an executive.

[Interviewer/Podcast Host]

Oh, wow.

[Spencer Haywood]

Yeah.

[Interviewer/Podcast Host]

Four for four, man. Well done.

[Spencer Haywood]

Well done. That is rare. That is right? Yeah. So I've been blessed and I've been so humble with my life that God is good.

[Interviewer/Podcast Host]

Let's go. What's next for you, man? How could people keep watching you, supporting you?

[Spencer Haywood]

Well, you know, dispenser, Haywood podcast that's called the Spencer Haywood Rule. Probably going to be shot right here.

[Interviewer/Podcast Host]

Let's go.

[Spencer Haywood]

And we have a number of players. We have like Rick Barry. We're going to do some real solid stuff, and we're going to do a lot of stuff during the summer league because we have both NBA retired players, the current players, and they have all their meetings here. So I'm thinking to maybe have LeBron, Steph Curry and Jalen Brown because they're doing collective bargaining fight here. They not playing in the summer, but they're doing all of their union work. Right. So we'll bring them in here and we're gonna just sit down and chop it up for a couple of hours. Not like, you know that'd be a

[Interviewer/Podcast Host]

game changer to see that side of the sport. No one sees that.

[Spencer Haywood]

You know I do,

[Interviewer/Podcast Host]

man. We'll link your stuff below. It was an honor having you. Thanks for coming on.

[Spencer Haywood]

Thank you so much. Or should I say it like Elvis said? Send it. Thank you. Thank you very much.

[Interviewer/Podcast Host]

See you guys. Thanks for staying all the way to the end, guys. Means a lot to me.

[Spencer Haywood]

If you could please leave a review

[Interviewer/Podcast Host]

on Apple that helps us climb the charts, it helps us get way more guests and it helps us continue growing the podcast and the team. So it would mean a lot to me if you left a review on Apple or wherever else you're listening. Thanks so much.

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