How a Nesquik Addict Built a Viral Beverage Empire | Joelle Weinand DSH #932

Summary

Digital Social Hour Podcast Summary
Episode: How a Nesquik Addict Built a Viral Beverage Empire | Joelle Weinand DSH #932
Host: Sean Kelly
Guest: Joelle Weinand (referred to as "Ninja")
Release Date: November 29, 2024

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Introduction

In episode #932 of the Digital Social Hour, host Sean Kelly engages in a compelling conversation with Joelle Weinand, affectionately known as "Ninja." This episode delves into Joelle's entrepreneurial journey from being a nostalgic Nesquik enthusiast to founding a successful beverage company, "Nutcase Milk." The discussion navigates through her challenges, strategic decisions, and the innovative approaches that fueled her rise in the competitive beverage industry.

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Guest Background and Entrepreneurial Spirit

Joelle Weinand introduces herself as a serial entrepreneur with a diverse background, including owning a restaurant in Canada and previously launching an experience company that offered unique activities like racing Humvees and aerobatic flights. Her competitive nature, shaped by her childhood in boys' competitive hockey, plays a pivotal role in her business endeavors.

Key Quote:

Ninja [02:04]: "I think I've always just loved to challenge myself. Everything needs to be a battle or challenge or we prop bets."

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The Birth of Nutcase Milk

Joelle’s journey to creating Nutcase Milk began with her realization of the unhealthy components in traditional chocolate milk. A decade-long aversion to sugary beverages shattered her dreams of enjoying chocolate milk until the COVID-19 lockdowns reignited her craving. Equipped with cashews and a Vitamix, she experimented and successfully crafted a creamy, delicious alternative.

Key Quote:

Ninja [03:08]: "I was a total Nesquik addict. It was a sad day when I started to read labels and realized I shouldn't be putting this in my body anymore."

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Initial Success and Product Validation

The homemade cashew milk received immediate positive feedback from friends and family, catalyzing the decision to commercialize it. Initially introduced in her Canadian restaurant, Nutcase Milk quickly became a hit, prompting inquiries from other restaurants and retailers. The authentic branding, inspired by her nickname "Nutcase," resonated deeply with consumers, fostering a sense of community and relatability.

Key Quote:

Ninja [05:30]: "The brand is very authentically named after me, and that's been really cool to see that it resonates with a lot of people."

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Scaling the Business Amidst Challenges

Navigating the scaling process during the pandemic posed significant hurdles, including the difficulty in finding a co-packer. A serendipitous meeting at a brunch in Las Vegas introduced Joelle to Rich Blankenship and Jonah, who connected her with David, an operations expert. This network facilitated the necessary infrastructure to scale Nutcase Milk effectively.

Key Quote:

Ninja [07:04]: "He was like, we've backed CPG companies. And I was like, I had no clue. He made that call, made the intro, and that guy connected me to David."

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Strategic Partnerships and Celebrity Endorsements

Nutcase Milk’s growth was significantly bolstered by strategic partnerships with high-profile personalities like Phil Hellmuth and Steve Aoki. These endorsements not only elevated the brand’s visibility but also lent credibility and authenticity, essential for a startup's reputation.

Key Quote:

Ninja [10:44]: "Phil Hellmuth came on as an investor and advisor. He immediately loved the product and wanted to work together as a co-founder."

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Product Differentiation and Health Benefits

Nutcase Milk stands out in the market by utilizing cashews instead of traditional fillers to achieve a rich, creamy texture. This approach ensures a higher nutritional value, offering five grams of protein and substantial potassium levels, making it an excellent post-workout drink. The absence of artificial additives and fillers aligns with the growing consumer preference for clean, healthy beverages.

Key Quote:

Ninja [14:32]: "We use a lot of cashews because it gives us all the protein and texture directly from the nuts, without needing fillers or extra garbage."

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Overcoming Operational Hurdles

The pandemic's impact on supply chains and co-packing was a significant obstacle. However, leveraging her network and the support of venture capital backers like David, Joelle managed to secure the necessary resources to produce and distribute Nutcase Milk efficiently. This collaboration was instrumental in transforming a homebrew idea into a scalable business.

Key Quote:

Ninja [08:56]: "He connected me to an ops guy who loved the concept and helped set everything up. And we're here today because of those little moments that unlocked something."

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Authenticity in Branding and Marketing

Joelle emphasizes the importance of authenticity in her brand’s outreach. By avoiding superficial endorsements and ensuring that celebrity partners genuinely resonate with the product, Nutcase Milk maintains an authentic connection with its audience. This strategy has fostered trust and loyalty among consumers.

Key Quote:

Ninja [16:52]: "We had to be super authentic. Phil Hellmuth genuinely loved the product and wanted to promote something he felt good about."

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Future Plans and Expansion

Looking ahead, Nutcase Milk plans to expand into retail markets next year, following a strategic focus on laying a strong foundation and gathering consumer feedback in the initial phase. This cautious yet ambitious approach aims to sustain growth without overextending the company’s resources.

Key Quote:

Ninja [13:50]: "This year is about testing and laying the foundation. We're going to go big next year."

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Personal Insights and Poker Passion

Outside of her entrepreneurial pursuits, Joelle shares her passion for poker, highlighting how the game's strategic and competitive nature mirrors her business mindset. Her involvement in the poker community has also facilitated meaningful connections that have benefited Nutcase Milk.

Key Quote:

Ninja [31:07]: "Sitting at the poker table is one of the few times I stop thinking about work. It's meditative."

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Conclusion and Takeaways

Joelle Weinand’s journey with Nutcase Milk exemplifies the essence of modern entrepreneurship—identifying a market gap, leveraging personal passion, and forging authentic connections. Her story is a testament to the power of resilience, strategic networking, and maintaining authenticity in branding. Aspiring entrepreneurs can draw inspiration from her ability to turn a personal craving into a successful, scalable business venture.

Key Takeaways:

1. Identify and Address Market Gaps: Joelle recognized the lack of healthy, tasty chocolate milk alternatives and capitalized on this opportunity.

2. Leverage Authenticity: Building genuine relationships with consumers and partners fosters trust and loyalty.

3. Strategic Networking: Opportunities often arise from unexpected connections; being open and proactive can unlock potential growth avenues.

4. Product Differentiation: Offering a unique value proposition, such as using cashews for better nutrition and texture, sets a product apart in a crowded market.

5. Resilient Scaling: Navigating challenges with a strong support network and strategic planning is crucial for business expansion.

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Where to Follow Nutcase Milk

Listeners interested in exploring Nutcase Milk can purchase the product online at drinknutcase.com or find it on GoPuff in most major cities. The company is also gearing up for retail expansion in the upcoming year.

Connect with Joelle Weinand (Ninja):

• Website: drinknutcase.com
• Social Media: Follow Nutcase Milk on Instagram and Twitter for updates and promotions.

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End of Summary

Transcript

[Joe]

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[Ninja]

If you think of oats or, like, even almonds, like, they're not fatty and they're not rich, so you don't get that, like, creamy texture from them. So you have to add fats. And that's a big thing that we do differently is use a lot of cashews. Because we do that, we get all of the texture, all of the protein, all that comes directly from the nuts. And we don't have to, like, use fillers and just extra garbage to, like, give it a mouthfeel and give it texture.

[Joe]

All right, guys, Joe from Nutcase here today. Thanks for coming on.

[Ninja]

My pleasure. Good to be here.

[Joe]

Yeah. Gearing up for the poker tournament tonight. You excited?

[Ninja]

I'm. I'm pumped.

[Joe]

You're a player, so you got a little edge on everyone.

[Ninja]

I. So I'm not playing tonight.

[Joe]

Oh, you're not?

[Ninja]

I'm here rooting Ninja on tonight, and then we have our own game on Saturday as well.

[Joe]

Did you give Ninja some lessons?

[Ninja]

Yeah, he would. He would kill me if I said that. Yeah, yeah, we're very competitive. Competitive, but we try to give him some pointers, but he's got the hang of it.

[Joe]

I love that. Where'd you get that competitive nature from, you think?

[Ninja]

I don't know. I always had it. I grew up playing competitive boys hockey.

[Joe]

Really?

[Ninja]

And I think I've always just loved to challenge myself. And. Yeah, I don't know where it comes from, but everything needs to be a battle or challenge or we prop bets.

[Joe]

You know, I love that. Well, that's how poker players think they bet on everything.

[Ninja]

Exactly.

[Joe]

So you were too good for the girls hockey team, huh?

[Ninja]

It wasn't a big thing at the time. But I also. And I like to play full contact as well. I had a bit of an edge because girls tended to mature sooner. So in the first few years, I was actually bigger than most of the guys. And then they all caught up and just beat the out of me.

[Joe]

I was like, okay, that's how it works. I remember going on the playground as a kid. It was even matches with both genders.

[Ninja]

Yeah, yeah.

[Joe]

But then guys got faster and stronger over one summer.

[Ninja]

You're just like, yeah, it was like.

[Joe]

Maybe middle school around that time. Yeah, yeah. But, yeah, we used to play soccer with everyone, and it was super fun. If only life could stay all the way. Yeah. Let's talk about the drink, though. Nutcase milk. How did this start?

[Ninja]

So I was one of those kids that was a total Nesquik addict. Um, and I, you know, it was a sad day when I started to read labels and kind of finally just kind of clued in, was like, I really shouldn't be putting this in my body anymore. Also, it, you know, noticing how I felt after it. So that just, you know, shattered all the dreams of chocolate milk. And it was, you know, probably over a decade that I kind of just forgot about it. And of course, silver lining of COVID is that it gave us time. And that's a recipe for disaster in my case, most of the time, because I get bored really quickly. So I was in Canada. We had some lockdowns. We really couldn't do anything. And I just started craving that chocolate milk again, that comfort food. And that's when, because I had nothing else to do, all of a sudden I was like, I wonder if I can make my own. I'll just, you know, Google how do you make cashew or. And I really like cashews. I'm not vegan. I just really think it makes a, like, rich, creamy base for milk. So I always like cashew milk. I found some cashews in the pantry, worked with the Vitamix, and. And just kind of whipped up a batch. Really not think it was going to work. You know, I was like, this is. How is this possible that you just throw things in the Vitamix and it comes out great. But I tried it, and it shocked me because it was actually really good.

[Joe]

Wow.

[Ninja]

And that said, you know, I'm like, I'm biased. Maybe I'm just telling myself it's good. So I invited my friend Brooke over and kind of just hand over a cup. And I was like, hey, drink this. And good thing she trusts me, because she's like, okay. And she had a sip, and she was kind of like, wait, you made this? And I was like, yeah. We were both like, can you believe it? But that kind of confirmed it was so good. And then my husband tried it as well, and he's my toughest critic. And he was like, yeah, actually, I would drink this. And he doesn't drink nut milk or anything. So I was like, okay, cool. And then that's when we're like, okay, well, what do we. What do we do with this? I think it's actually really good. I happen to. Back home in Canada, I own a restaurant.

[Joe]

Yeah.

[Ninja]

So we're like, why don't we just put it on the shelf at the restaurant? We'll see what happens. And it just flew off the shelf, like, oh, that's interesting. And what the other part that was really cool is within a few weeks, we started to have other restaurants and retailers coming to the restaurant being like, hey, like, who's your supplier? Like, where are you getting this stuff from? And we're like, oh, we're just making it in the back. And that's where we kind of started to say, okay, maybe we're. Maybe we're onto something. And, oh, it's funny. Is to put it on the shelf. We realize, like, oh, I guess we need to buy bottles and, like, stickers and, like, what are we gonna call it? And of course, I just started thinking of. I'm like, what are funny words that have nut or, like, fun things? And of course, nutcase. The first thing that comes to mind. Clearly, I was a bit of a hyper child, so it's something I've been called more than once in my life. So it's. The brand is very authentically named up after me. And that's actually been really cool to see that it resonates with a lot of people. Like, one of my favorite comments is when people comment on the brand name and they're just like, oh, welcome to the club. Or just like, they feel seen. So, yeah, from there, that's basically how we created it, tested it, validated it, and kind of saw the opportunity. And then, of course, I'm kind of a serial entrepreneur. So as soon as I kind of saw that, I was like, okay, I'll dive in, do my research, and really saw that there is a big gap in the market. And of course, I kind of already knew that because I'd been looking for years for A healthier chocolate milk that was also tasty, right. And had not found one. So we from there we saw the opportunity, wanted to try to scale it, but didn't, obviously. I never run an average company. I had no idea what I was doing. And because it was mid Covid, to be honest, we like struggled at first because no one couldn't find a co packer. No one would answer the phone. And lo and behold, it all came down to a random brunch at Catch in Vegas with, with some friends with Rich Blankenship and Jonah. And we were just chatting about startups and businesses and stuff. And Rich was like, hey, what's this? What's this chocolate milk I keep seeing on your Instagram? And I was like, oh, that super random. And I just explained the story to him, but I told him like, we haven't been able to figure out how to scale it and I don't know where. He's like, oh, by the way, we started a VC fund. I was like, what are you talking about? He's like, we've backed CPG companies. And I was like, I had no clue. And so he said, why don't you talk to one of our other founders and he has an ops guy they might be able to tell, help make this happen. I was like, okay, cool. But really, like, not thinking much of it. But of course he made that call, made the intro. That guy connected me to this ops guy, David. And as soon as he heard about the concept and the product, he's like, oh, I love this. Like, yeah, let's do this.

[Joe]

Wow.

[Ninja]

And he was like, I've got like, here's. Here's a formulator for you. Here's a co packer. Just line it up, open all the doors. And we're like, okay, I guess, I guess we're doing this.

[Joe]

It's got real.

[Ninja]

And yeah, I remember the day being like, oh, shit. Yeah, I guess. I guess we are doing this. And they came in and true to their word, they were our lead backers. Because when he made the intro, we kind of made a joke of like, if you do this though, like, you have to let us in the first round. And I was like, yeah, of course. Still, like, not really think it was serious at the time, but yeah, all that. Just these little moments that unlock something and yeah. And then, okay, here we are, here we are.

[Joe]

Wow. Go to catch out. I gotta go to catch more.

[Ninja]

Yeah, get brunch there. You never know what's gonna happen.

[Joe]

Damn, that's awesome. And now you guys are Doing really well. You got some big people behind this thing.

[Ninja]

So that's also been super interesting. We look a lot bigger than we are because from before we even launched, we got introduced to Ninja. That's another funny, funny poker story. Because we. I know Phil Hellmuth, and he had just played a crazy big game in LA with ninja and Mr. Beast and all those guys. And Phil sat next to Tyler, so they got to know each other and kept in touch. So when Phil. I was catching up with Phil one day, I told him about this chocolate milk and he was like, I love chocolate milk. And he got all giddy. He's like, send me some. So I'm like, sure. So I shipped some to him. He loved it. So he came on as an investor and advisor and he immediately was like, you know, should we should send them send some to. And I was like, like, who? Who you thinking? He's like, ninja. And I'm like, oh, that's random. I'm like, okay, sure. Like, why not? So he texted Tyler and Tyler immediately was like, yeah, this looks really cool. Send me some. We sent him some. I. I really didn't know what he would think about it.

[Joe]

Yeah.

[Ninja]

Or if he drank nut milk or whatnot. But as soon as he got it and tried it, he's like, I love this. He's like, I have like a massive sweet tooth and this just like hits the spot. I love how clean it is. And he's like, well, yeah, let's like, let's do, do something together. And I was like, oh. Again, like, I keep getting caught off guard because it's just like not, not expecting these things to all come together. So I actually flew down to have dinner with him and kind of brainstorming and see, first of all, see how we hit it off. And it just was all so natural. We got along so easily. He totally understood the product. Like, he really genuinely loved it. And I know he was excited to work with a product that he'd feel really good about, you know, promoting to his fans and whatnot. So he ended up coming on board fully as a co founder.

[Joe]

That's awesome.

[Ninja]

Pre launch. So that makes us look a lot bigger than we are. So we launched with Ninja. Like, it's only been about half a year. Wow. And we started with just online, D2C. And through after a few months as well, we met Steve Aoki. And just before launching the strawberry flavor, he tried that one. He loved the strawberry one. So he also came on board. So, yeah, we have this like powerhouse dream team. But we're still like, brand new, so people think we're a lot bigger than we are and we get like these crazy partnership requests sometimes that we're like, yeah, we. We don't have that budget. We got a call from the UFC a week before the Sphere fight and they're like, one of our sponsors just dropped out. Do you want the spot? And I'm like, yeah, sure. What does that cost? Probably like 500k pretty much. Exactly. I was like, that is all of what we've raised so far to date. I was like, cool. But, yeah, maybe next year.

[Joe]

Yeah.

[Ninja]

So that's. That's just the tricky. It's cool, but it's tricky because people are like, looking at it, coming at us for like, big sponsors, and I'm like, yeah, we're not. We're like, we're scrappy startups still.

[Joe]

Yeah.

[Ninja]

But. Well, I'm like, we're not paying them. Like, they're. They're part of the team, so.

[Joe]

Yeah, that makes sense. Well, I think things will change soon as you get in more retail stores and get some revenue.

[Ninja]

Yeah, that's the next step. We, we really wanted to be strategic this year in terms of like, laying the foundation, getting feedback. Not a lot of the advice I got from other creator back brands was like, they're like, we went too big too fast and it just blew up in our face. So they're like, go slow, get the feedback. So that's something that we're doing. So this year really is like testing and then we're going to go big next year.

[Joe]

I love that. I can't wait till I see it in stores. This is good, by the way. I never was a Nesquik kid, but I saw that stuff everywhere growing up.

[Ninja]

It's. Yeah. You know, it's Nesquik or Yoohoo.

[Joe]

Yeah, I saw them everywhere. I. I wasn't big on chocolate milk growing up, but I know a lot of kids were like, I remember the milk cartons. Yes, that was the most popular flavor.

[Ninja]

Yeah.

[Joe]

And those are probably terrible for you too.

[Ninja]

They're. It's so. It's crazy across the board of like chocolate milks on the dairy side, the Nesquiks and the Yoohoos and stuff. You have a lot of brands have Carraghen in and all this sugar and just all this garbage in it.

[Joe]

Yeah.

[Ninja]

And then even when you go flip to like the nut milk side, a lot of those have oils and.

[Joe]

Oh, they got seed oils.

[Ninja]

Yeah, mostly like all of the oat milks and a lot of the almond milks, like the silks and this kind of stuff.

[Joe]

And that's weird that they're using that in drinks too.

[Ninja]

And the reason is probably because, like, if you think of oats or like even almonds, like, they're not fatty and they're not rich, so you don't get that like creamy texture from them. So you have to add fats to give it the right texture. And that's a big thing that we do differently is, first of all, we use a lot of cashews. So it's nutritious and it's more expensive. It's a more premium drink. Because we do that, we get all of the texture, all of the protein, all that comes directly from the nuts. And we don't have to like, use fillers and just extra garbage to like give it a mouthfeel and give it texture.

[Joe]

That makes sense. Yeah. Five grams of protein in this. If you drink two of these a day, that's 10 grams right there.

[Ninja]

Exactly. And we're not, we're not trying to be a protein shake either, because I find you sacrifice too much on taste for that. And I just really don't like the, like chalky.

[Joe]

I got terrible memories of trying to gain weight off protein shakes.

[Ninja]

Yeah.

[Joe]

Like almost throwing up.

[Ninja]

Exactly. So we, you know what, we're just, we're just trying to be a better for you chocolate milk. And there's, there's five grams of protein. The one thing that we really knock it out of the park with is potassium, which is really good for recovery, especially for like cardio endurance based workouts or athletes or like post sports, post tennis, post pickleball. Really helps with hydration. And that naturally from the cashews and the agave and the ingredients that we have in there, it's. It's naturally incredibly high. Like more than coconut water, which we were just talking about. Like, that can has more potassium than a large banana.

[Joe]

Whoa.

[Ninja]

So for like runners and stuff that like to crush bananas after a run, it also, like, helps prevent cramping.

[Joe]

Yeah. So I gotta start drinking this after basketball games.

[Ninja]

There you go. Yeah.

[Joe]

Wow. That's good to know. Yeah. 680 grams. That is a lot of potassium.

[Ninja]

So cashews have that much cashews and the agave and the dates.

[Joe]

Wow.

[Ninja]

Contribute to that.

[Joe]

That's cool. Yeah. This thing is. See a lot of potential with this.

[Ninja]

Thank you.

[Joe]

And you got the right partners, the right celebrities that actually care about it. Because sometimes celebrities just put their face on stuff.

[Ninja]

Yeah, we. That was one thing I would Never do. Um, so it had to be super authentic. And the. The funny story with. With Aoki actually is he tried our V1 chocolate and it was not very good. And he was just like, yeah, this is not good. And we're like, oh, okay. But I appreciated the honesty, right? And when he got to try the strawberry, that was like. Then he was like, oh, yeah. Like, this is it. This is my jam.

[Joe]

This is the V1.

[Ninja]

So I know this is. This is the final chocolate, and this one here is the vanilla, and we have strawberry as well. And that's really mimicking the Nesquik lineup of chocolate, vanilla, strawberry kind of thing. But we also had a funny moment with Steve where he had tried the strawberry. We hadn't launched it yet. We were still testing it, but he tried it, loved it. And the next day we had our streamed poker game, and he was playing and he shows up and it's live streamed. We're not. No one knows we're launching strawberry yet. He just got to try it. And first thing he says, he's like, yo, I tried the strawberry. It's so good. And we're like, all like, oh, my God. So ended up being a really fun moment because also, Tyler ninja leaked the chocolate before he was supposed to on stream.

[Joe]

Oh, God.

[Ninja]

So we're kind of just like, yeah, okay, you guys. But no secrets anymore.

[Joe]

Next flavor. You're keeping that internal?

[Ninja]

Yeah, Yeah. I can't tell them anything.

[Joe]

That's hilarious. Yeah. You guys do the poker streams, right? You got another one coming up Saturday?

[Ninja]

Mm, yeah. Really? That's just the. It's on brand. Because I met Tyler because of poker. Phil's an investor. My husband and I like, poker is the hobby that we bond over, and a lot of our. Our friends and community and so much of anything we're doing kind of always comes back to poker now.

[Joe]

So did you meet your husband through poker?

[Ninja]

Not through poker, but when I met him, he was just learning it.

[Joe]

Okay.

[Ninja]

And so that got me curious. So he was just like, ahead of me. So he would learn it and then, like, teach me kind of things. He'd read all the books, and then I just, like, would follow along kind of thing. And then we started going to the casino together. Then we started going to Vegas together. And it was only a matter of time because before we just made so many good friends. I love it in the poker world that were like, we're hooked.

[Joe]

Yeah. It is a cool community, for sure. I've tapped into a little bit. Where's your favorite spot in Vegas to play poker?

[Ninja]

Definitely.

[Joe]

Here in this studio. Okay.

[Ninja]

I mean, you're kind of spoiled here.

[Joe]

Yeah, I meant casino wise, but.

[Ninja]

Yeah, that's casino wise. It'll be a toss up between the Wynn and our. And Aria.

[Joe]

Okay.

[Ninja]

Yeah.

[Joe]

Yeah. The wind's nice, right?

[Ninja]

Depends on the mood. Yeah. During the day, because it's brighter and stuff, I like to play there because it's. It's much darker in Aria, but at night that's kind of the vibe.

[Joe]

Have you tried the new one in the Venetian yet? The new room?

[Ninja]

No.

[Joe]

Yeah, they just opened up.

[Ninja]

Okay.

[Joe]

Apparently it's the biggest poker room in the. It might be the country or something.

[Ninja]

Oh, geez. Okay, cool.

[Joe]

Yeah. Shout out to the Venetian.

[Ninja]

Played there or Resorts World. Either.

[Joe]

Resorts World. Okay. Venetian is my favorite hotel overall.

[Ninja]

Okay.

[Joe]

Like, if I'm going to pick one to stay at, that's. That's the one for me.

[Ninja]

Interesting. I. We bounced between Ariane Cosmo and now we're throwing Fontainebleau in the mix. The location isn't great because it's far, but the hotel is really nice. The gym is really nice.

[Joe]

Yeah. The spa is nice.

[Ninja]

Yeah.

[Joe]

You're in Vegas a lot, right? Yeah, it's hard to. Hard to be Vegas.

[Ninja]

I mean, I love the desert.

[Joe]

Oh, really?

[Ninja]

And the people. Yeah.

[Joe]

Well, I've never heard someone love the desert.

[Ninja]

Oh, really?

[Joe]

No, I.

[Ninja]

It's dry. It's perfect.

[Joe]

I don't know, I guess coming from Canada. Yeah. That's like the opposite of that weather, so.

[Ninja]

And Vegas is so nice too. Like anywhere you look, the backdrop is like those mountains.

[Joe]

Yeah.

[Ninja]

I don't know.

[Joe]

Yeah, it's got some good scenery for sure.

[Ninja]

Speaks to me.

[Joe]

Yeah. I think. Well, I haven't been to Canada where you're from, but. Yeah, it's hard to be Vegas for me. So.

[Ninja]

Yeah, it's. I mean, it's humid there and. Yeah, just a different.

[Joe]

It's humid in Canada, Yeah. Oh, I didn't know.

[Ninja]

Well, in East Coast, I guess. Ottawa's on the east, so.

[Joe]

Oh, got it.

[Ninja]

Yeah.

[Joe]

You said you were an entrepreneur before this company. What else were you doing beforehand?

[Ninja]

So before that I. Well, I have a restaurant that still operates, but I, you know, I put. People have a general manager who kind of runs it, so it runs itself now. And prior to that we had launch an experience company which basically just gave people access to like really crazy experiences. And we actually pulled off some pretty crazy, really cool stuff, but ultimately just wasn't sustainable. It was also a funny story where I knew some of the guys high up at Airbnb, and then I told them this idea. I launched it, and then Airbnb launched Airbnb Experiences.

[Joe]

And I was. Because of you.

[Ninja]

They won't admit that, but it was suspicious.

[Joe]

I've seen that. I've never used it, but I've seen it.

[Ninja]

Yeah, I've tried a couple in Japan. That was pretty worked out. Pretty kind of cool. We really met this samurai guy and sliced some stuff with some swords.

[Joe]

Wow. And you booked that on Airbnb. That's interesting.

[Ninja]

Yeah, it was pretty cool.

[Joe]

Okay, I'll have to look into that. But I'm upset they stole that from you. That sucks.

[Ninja]

I mean, yeah, they're ruthless. It was.

[Joe]

That's how business is at high level, though.

[Ninja]

It. It really is. And I was like, cutthroat? Yeah.

[Joe]

Damn. Yeah. Well, they sold their company, though, right?

[Ninja]

Airbnb, they.

[Joe]

The founders, they.

[Ninja]

I'm. I'm sure they've cashed out somewhat, but I'm not sure.

[Joe]

Oh, okay. Well, I'll use VRBO instead for you.

[Ninja]

Yes, thank you. I know. I'm like, I haven't stayed in Airbnb since.

[Joe]

You said you pulled off some crazy stuff, though. What was the craziest thing you pulled off for that experience company?

[Ninja]

So we in Canada, we had. We got access to, like, the special Forces training facility. And we were. One thing was cool. We got to. Went in like, a private quarry and we were racing Humvees and then, like, working with, like, world class snipers to do, like, shooting stuff. So that was like, on the military side, we did some really cool stuff. And then we did with some flight instructors, like, some crazy aerobatic flights.

[Joe]

You were in the plane with them in the plane?

[Ninja]

Yeah.

[Joe]

Oh, my gosh.

[Ninja]

I almost threw up.

[Joe]

Yeah. I would have been freaking out.

[Ninja]

It was not good. They're like, after a few barrel rolls, I was like, take me down. I'm like, I always had to be the guinea pig for these things. And some of them were pretty, pretty rough. And that's how we actually, that's how we initially met Hellmuth as well, because he did a cool poker experience.

[Joe]

Oh, yeah. That was one of the prizes or experiences.

[Ninja]

It was one of the ones that you could book way out was to play. Play with Phil.

[Joe]

Got it, like, heads up. Or like, he.

[Ninja]

He would do whatever you wanted. So, like, if you. We. We could try to organize a little game, if you rather play like a proper game, or you could just do like a coaching session or whatever.

[Joe]

That's cool. Is he the best player you've ever played against.

[Ninja]

It's. Yeah. This is a tricky question. It all depends on the style, right? Like, he's great, obviously, in, like, big fields in different areas. And then there's. We're also friends with, you know, like, the Foxens and stuff. They're like, who. Crush it if you're playing a bunch of other, like, really high, high level pros.

[Joe]

Yeah.

[Ninja]

So I would say it depends on.

[Joe]

Oh, he's gonna be angry with you.

[Ninja]

Yeah. I mean, Phil, it's okay. We troll each other. It's all.

[Joe]

Yeah, he came on the show and said he's the goat. I mean, I got so many hate comments for that one.

[Ninja]

I. I do have some pretty cool Phil stories, though, where. So we. When we come to Aria, most of the time we have our dog with us, okay. And she's like, she looks like a mini wolf. She's. The breed's called Temascan, but they. They're pretty striking and they get a lot of attention. And we. Phil invited us to a group dinner at Carbone, and we didn't have a dog sitter, so we're like, oh. He's like, come, come. We're like, we'd love to come, but we can only come if we can bring Billy. And he was. I was like, I'm pretty sure Carbon will not let us bring our little wolf dog into the restaurant. And Phil goes, I'm fucking Phil Hellmuth.

[Joe]

Oh, my God.

[Ninja]

He's like, of course we can. So I'm like, okay. So we show up with our dog. They let us in.

[Joe]

What?

[Ninja]

Yeah.

[Joe]

So Carbon's like the nicest restaurant in Vegas.

[Ninja]

And everybody, like, everybody in the restaurant, I swear, stopped and, like, looked at us. And then we went to the private room. The best part of this story is the waiters then go like, does the dog want something? And we're like, what? And they're like, like a steak. And we're like, sure, like, you'll bring her a steak. And so they brought her this big steak, and they were dumping Fiji water for her into a bowl. And we're just like, oh, my God.

[Joe]

I thought I had a great night.

[Ninja]

And of course, because it's all a poker crowd, at the end of the dinner, we play credit card roulette. So someone wins or loses in this case. And they're like. Everybody's poking at them. Haha, you lost. You have to pay for the dinner. Um, and they're like. They're. They're fine with it. But then it dawns on us after like five minutes, we're like, you just paid for the dog's dinner. Like, that's. That steak was probably like 60, 80 bucks, right? Billy says thank you.

[Joe]

$2,000 bill. Yeah, I've actually, knock on wood, I've never lost credit card roulette.

[Ninja]

Me neither.

[Joe]

I'm five and.

[Ninja]

Oh, yeah, I'm. I'm doing good, but I'm. I'm overdue. So I.

[Joe]

There's some techniques, like you gotta strategize on what card you use. I don't use the heavier AMX's.

[Ninja]

Right.

[Joe]

Cause I feel like they'll. They'll take that one out, you know? So I use the sleek ones.

[Ninja]

Smart.

[Joe]

Yeah. 5 and 0 credit card. Lut's fun.

[Ninja]

Yeah.

[Joe]

I highly recommend everyone try it.

[Ninja]

Yeah. I mean, when you go in for dinner with poker people, like, there's.

[Joe]

That's normal.

[Ninja]

It's never going to be split bills or you're either that or you're going to end up doing some sort of prop bet or.

[Joe]

Yeah. Yeah. Do you. Do you play pretty comfortable? Have you ever been, like, playing uncomfortable? Like, the stakes were too high?

[Ninja]

It's not the stakes, it's the cameras.

[Joe]

Oh, really?

[Ninja]

I hate playing on camera.

[Joe]

Oh, wow.

[Ninja]

Because I have my own. I have my own ideas. The. They might not really understand what I'm doing.

[Joe]

Oh, so you're afraid of getting judged on your style?

[Ninja]

Yeah, I think it's that and. Or sometimes I just make stupid mis. I'm like, I'm not a pro and I'm still learning and I haven't played as much lately, so I'm a little rusty.

[Joe]

Yeah.

[Ninja]

So, yeah, of course, like, I'm not gonna play perfect. And the other thing is a lot of the tables. I think the thing that's most misunderstood when people are watching in this commentary is that you don't know the history that we have with players. So I will play a very specific way in a hand, for instance, against my husband, because he taught me. So I know. I'm like, you have to go like your meta. You're like three levels deeper. Like, he's thinking that. I'm thinking that this. And then you're trying to do something different to, like, throw him off. But it doesn't make sense to the commentator who doesn't understand, like, what I'm doing or that I know a specific player. You might be able to bluff more or whatever. So I'll try different things with different people and it might not make sense to everybody.

[Joe]

No, that's a good Perspective, though, I never even thought about that. Because when you're watching, you're thinking so logically. You're seeing the percentages and stuff.

[Ninja]

Exactly. Especially if you're a numbers player and you're just like analyzing it. Exactly. And this is what's funny. My. Between my husband and I were very different styles of players. So he's more, he's German, so he's more like, he knows all the numbers and he plays like by the book, optimal.

[Joe]

Yeah.

[Ninja]

Whereas I'm more like, I like to play the brain game. So I'm like, I'm just going to try and mind fuck the shit out of them. Like, then they won't know what I'm doing. So sometimes we get into debates because we're just like playing very differently.

[Joe]

Yeah.

[Ninja]

But there's times where, for instance, there's someone who's giving away so many tales. Like, the guy clearly is like, call, call, call. And like in a hand that my husband's in and he's next to me and I'm like, I'm looking at him, I'm like, just by the guy, I'm like, do not call. Right. But he's, he's in his, in the tank. He's in his head running numbers. And I was like, I don't care if the number says you're like 90% favorite or like you have the odds to call here. Like, just look at this guy, right? He's pretty much drooling. Just like, don't call. So he's like, you got to run more numbers. And I'm like, you got to just like look around.

[Joe]

I think you need both to be the best, ideally.

[Ninja]

Yeah.

[Joe]

Like, you need that feel for the game, being able to read people. But also the GTO stuff is pretty needed these days, right?

[Ninja]

Yeah.

[Joe]

Yeah. A lot of people live off that GTO thing.

[Ninja]

Depending who you're playing though, again. And then tonight, like, or you're playing with people who don't really know. So I'm like, you can't analyze someone who doesn't even know what they're doing themselves.

[Joe]

Yeah, yeah, that's a good point. I heard pros actually struggle against amateurs.

[Ninja]

Yeah, they really do because they can't predict them. They're overanalyzing.

[Joe]

Right.

[Ninja]

And then it's, it's really just bingo at that point.

[Joe]

Yeah. For real. I don't like games that are, are luck based.

[Ninja]

Me neither. And that's, that's the whole, like, difference, right. Between gambling or the misconception of poker in a casino and it just being pure gambling. You're like. Well, there is actually a skill component. So it's different from, like, just playing blackjack.

[Joe]

Yeah. I played bingo on this cruise and I was itching in my seat. Like, I had no control over who won.

[Ninja]

Yeah.

[Joe]

And I lost. So.

[Ninja]

Yeah, it's not fun.

[Joe]

I'm good on bingo. Every hotel has it, and it's always packed. I'm like, what the hell? Like, people play bingo.

[Ninja]

It's weird. Yeah.

[Joe]

I guess people like the slots, too, which makes no sense to me, but everyone has their. Their gambling, their fix, or, you know.

[Ninja]

For some people, it's just like an escape of, like.

[Joe]

Right.

[Ninja]

Just zone out.

[Joe]

Yeah. But you're doing it for fun and you're not doing it to make money. Right? That's not the main thing.

[Ninja]

No, it's. It definitely. I mean, for me, sitting at the poker table is one of the few times I stop thinking about work.

[Joe]

It's.

[Ninja]

It's a good. It's like meditative, and people, like. It's weird. People, like, think poker is the stressful part. I was like, no, I play it to, like, to destroy.

[Joe]

That's funny.

[Ninja]

Zone out and just, like, sit around a table, meet some new people. But I need the stakes for me to be engaged.

[Joe]

So if it's like, one, two, you won't.

[Ninja]

Exactly. Or like. And that's why I find it hard to get into board games or video games or anything where there's not something at stake. I'm like, what's the point, though? Like, why am I playing this?

[Joe]

Right. What's the meaning of life?

[Ninja]

Yeah. The stake. Having something, being able to win something actually makes it engaging.

[Joe]

Yeah. So what's that level for you right now?

[Ninja]

What stakes?

[Joe]

Stakes wise?

[Ninja]

Yeah, I think. I mean, I like to Play. I think 25:50, which is what we're going to play on Saturday, is. Is a good level. You get the heart rate going.

[Joe]

Yeah. That's pretty baller. Damn.

[Ninja]

Yeah.

[Joe]

You could get some, like, $5,000 hands at that level, right?

[Ninja]

Yeah, exactly. And that's like. It's good. So that's like. If you win, it's meaningful.

[Joe]

Yeah. Funds the trip.

[Ninja]

But if you lose, you're not, like, ruined.

[Joe]

Right. So that's a good level. Yeah. What's the highest stakes game you've seen or played in? I guess.

[Ninja]

I think it was a couple of 50, 100 games.

[Joe]

Okay.

[Ninja]

There's a couple of poker after darks. I think that's what we played.

[Joe]

And like, 5,000.

[Ninja]

That was stressful.

[Joe]

That's like 100k buy in. Right? That's a big buy in.

[Ninja]

What were we now, 5,000? We're buying it for 10k.

[Joe]

Oh, 10k to be 100b deep.

[Ninja]

It wasn't. Yeah, it wasn't.

[Joe]

Okay. I've seen some crazy streams where like people buying for a million.

[Ninja]

That's like. Yeah, the, the. The ninja. Help me with Mr. Beast xqc stream that they had at Hustler.

[Joe]

That was nuts.

[Ninja]

Insane. And Keating was in that game.

[Joe]

Saw that.

[Ninja]

Yeah, that was. That was insane. Yeah, I don't feel the need to. I. I don't think that's necessary, to be honest.

[Joe]

Yeah, there's levels at that point, it's.

[Ninja]

Just guys just dick measuring.

[Joe]

You said it, not me. Joe, it's been fun. Where can people buy the drink and keep up with you?

[Ninja]

So we're mostly still online right now, so. Drinknutcase.com we're also on GoPuff in most major cities and then, yeah, we'll start attacking retail next year.

[Joe]

Cool. Thanks for coming on. Yep. We'll link the site below guys, if you're interested. See you next time.