How Failure Fueled My First Scripted Film Success | Rory Karpf DSH #1205

Summary

Digital Social Hour: How Failure Fueled My First Scripted Film Success | Rory Karpf DSH #1205

Host: Sean Kelly
Guest: Rory Karpf, Director of Grace Point
Release Date: February 26, 2025

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Introduction

In episode #1205 of Digital Social Hour, host Sean Kelly engages in a deep and candid conversation with Rory Karpf, the director of his first scripted film, Grace Point. The episode, titled "How Failure Fueled My First Scripted Film Success," delves into Rory's journey from facing setbacks to achieving success in the competitive world of filmmaking. The discussion offers invaluable insights into overcoming fear of failure, embracing discomfort, and the transformative power of vulnerability.

Rory’s Journey into Scripted Filmmaking

Rory Karpf shares his transition from documentary and sports filmmaking to scripted films. His initial foray into scripted cinema with a project titled Mercy Falls faced significant hurdles, primarily due to its expansive budget and ambitious scope. "So like most things in Hollywood, it just kind of languishes for a while, looks, and then it just goes away," Rory explains (02:13). This setback led him to rethink his approach, especially during the COVID-19 pandemic, which unexpectedly became a catalyst for his success.

Notable Quote:

"Once you have that spark and you follow it, just. Things start to steamroll after that." — Rory Karpf (02:13)

Creating Grace Point: Embracing Failure and Rewriting Success

During the pandemic, while filming in Laurenberg, North Carolina, Rory's Director of Photography suggested reworking Mercy Falls into a new setting. This led Rory to rewrite the script from scratch in just a week, culminating in the production of Grace Point by June 2021. Rory emphasizes the importance of acting swiftly on creative impulses: "That's how quickly it came together. So, I mean, once. Once you have that spark and you follow it, just. Things start to steamroll after that." (02:13)

The Fear of Failure and Embracing Discomfort

A significant portion of the conversation revolves around the fear of failure. Rory contrasts his fearlessness with Sean's initial fear of failure due to past bullying. Rory recounts his experience stepping into the UFC cage, despite having no athletic ability, which became a metaphor for resilience: "Life's gonna kick your ass sometimes, but it's like if you could just stand there and just keep taking the punches." (05:18)

Notable Quote:

"Life's gonna kick your ass sometimes, but it's like if you could just stand there and just keep taking the punches." — Rory Karpf (05:18)

Vulnerability and Personal Growth

Rory delves into the significance of vulnerability, sharing personal anecdotes about overcoming childhood trauma and the impact of opening up. He narrates an incident on the set of Grace Point where an actor's inappropriate comment triggered his unresolved feelings from his past. By making himself vulnerable, Rory was able to diffuse the tension and foster a respectful environment: "So I made myself vulnerable telling him this. I opened up about something with my childhood, so he felt bad." (16:51)

Notable Quote:

"If you're struggling in high school, that might be a good sign because that means you might peak in your 20s, 30s. That's a better time." — Rory Karpf (30:29)

Building Relationships and Treating Everyone Equally

Rory emphasizes the importance of treating everyone with respect, regardless of their status. Whether dealing with seasoned actors like Shaquille O'Neal or newcomers, Rory maintains a humble approach: "I try to treat everybody the same. I give people respect, but I demand it back when I'm dealing with someone." (10:42)

Impact of Success on Personal Life

The discussion transitions to how success influences personal relationships and ego. Rory reflects on his friendships, such as with actor Luke Perry, and how personal tragedies can lead to positive outcomes. He shares a heartwarming story of meeting his wife through a mutual friend after Luke Perry's untimely death: "So we wound up getting lunch together and then we went to his memorial together in LA. I asked. She wasn't gonna go because she had to work. I kind of convinced her to go, and then we've been together ever since." (37:43)

Maintaining Humility Amid Success

Rory attributes his ability to stay grounded to his focus on storytelling rather than personal accolades. He acknowledges the challenges of fame and fortune but stresses the importance of staying true to one's values: "I hate myself, so that hasn't been, that hasn't been that difficult. I, I've always tried to stay humble." (40:20)

Notable Quote:

"We're telling stories and playing pretend. I used to do that with, like, my He-Man action figures as a kid." — Rory Karpf (41:35)

Conclusion: Lessons Learned from Failure and Success

In wrapping up, Rory encourages embracing failure as a stepping stone to success. He underscores the importance of resilience, staying true to one's passions, and the value of authentic connections: "If you have a heartbeat, you have hope." (34:42)

Sean and Rory reinforce the idea that personal growth often stems from overcoming adversity and that maintaining humility and genuine relationships is key to lasting success. The episode serves as an inspiring testament to how confronting and embracing failure can lead to profound achievements and personal fulfillment.

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Key Takeaways

• Embrace Failure: Failure is an inevitable part of the creative process and can be a powerful catalyst for growth.
• Act Quickly on Opportunities: When inspiration strikes, swift action can lead to unexpected successes.
• Vulnerability Strengthens Relationships: Opening up about personal struggles fosters deeper connections and understanding.
• Maintain Humility: Success should not overshadow one's core values and respect for others.
• Resilience is Crucial: Continually pushing through discomfort and setbacks leads to long-term achievements.

Notable Quotes with Timestamps

1. "Once you have that spark and you follow it, just. Things start to steamroll after that." — Rory Karpf (02:13)
2. "Life's gonna kick your ass sometimes, but it's like if you could just stand there and just keep taking the punches." — Rory Karpf (05:18)
3. "If you're struggling in high school, that might be a good sign because that means you might peak in your 20s, 30s. That's a better time." — Rory Karpf (30:29)
4. "If you have a heartbeat, you have hope." — Rory Karpf (34:42)
5. "We're telling stories and playing pretend. I used to do that with, like, my He-Man action figures as a kid." — Rory Karpf (41:35)

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Listen to the full episode here.

Transcript

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[Rory]

I was like, how do I want to handle this? Because this person's a very experienced actor too. Been on big movies, big sets, big directors. My first scripted movie, getting things off to the wrong start. So I knew I didn't want to go up to him and be like, hey man, you don't talk to me that way and be real confrontational. So I let it go until lunch. I was like, all right, I'm going to talk to him at lunch. Foreign.

[Sean]

Guys, we got Rory here today, director of Grace Point. Thanks for joining us.

[Rory]

Yeah, man, thanks for having me.

[Sean]

Absolutely. Just full disclosure, I haven't seen it yet, but I'm excited.

[Rory]

Crushingly disappointing, but sorry, you're gonna have to watch it on your way back and then maybe put it in the comments, what you think of it.

[Sean]

I will. I'll add a little comment to it. And I'm a big thriller fan, like we were talking about.

[Rory]

Yeah, well, if you like thrillers, you're gonna like this. You said you're favorite film is Shutter island and there's definitely some comparisons to Shutter Island. Smaller budget than Shutter island, but it's a thriller and there's a big twist. I don't want to give anything away. So if you like thrillers, do you like coming of age movies?

[Sean]

I would say so, yeah.

[Rory]

Yeah. So there's that aspect as well. So if you like thrillers, coming of age, just a good story. Definitely. Check out Gracebourne.

[Sean]

Can't Wait. Yeah. There's a whole story with how you made this. You spent 500k, right, instead of 13 million?

[Rory]

Yeah, well, originally. So I got a manager in 2013 for the first time. I did a film called the Book of Manning. It was about the Manning football family. And this manager said, well, like, what's your dream? What do you want to do? And I said, I want to do scripted. I had done primarily documentaries and sports up until that point, but scripted was my dream. So there was a script called Mercy Falls, which was the Bones of Grace Pointe, but much, much bigger as far as budget. There were explosions and horses and mudslides, crazy things happening, and they attached some decent name actors to it. But like most things in Hollywood, it just kind of languishes for a while, looks, and then it just goes away. So I just thought it wasn't going to happen. Well, fast forward to Covid, and I'm filming in this town in North Carolina called Laurenberg, and my DP director of photography says, man, we should film a movie here. This town has so much character. And I'm like, yeah, you're right. And he's like, you know what? You should take that film, Mercy Falls, and rewrite it so it happens in this town. And it was like a light bulb moment for me. Maybe like, you had one of these when you decided to do a podcast. But I went home, I rewrote the script from scratch, rewrote it in a week. And that was January 2021, and we were filming by June. That's how quickly it came together. So, I mean, once. Once you have that spark and you follow it, just. Things start to steamroll after that.

[Sean]

Yeah. Similar story with me. I started a podcast when I was much younger, maybe 21. Completely failed, you know what I mean? And put it on the back burner. But I knew I always wanted to do it. I was a huge Rogan fan growing up, and, yeah, when I started this one five years later, I learned a lot more, had the right connections, it made it work.

[Rory]

Why do you think people are so afraid to fail? I've never been afraid to fail.

[Sean]

Really?

[Rory]

Well, I don't. I think I'd rather try and fail. I had a. I had a amateur fight. I do a lot of things with the ufc, and I always had this dream of wanting to be a fight. I'm like, I'm photographing these guys, doing shows with them. I wanted to know what it was like to take that walk. So at 44 years old, without a speck of athletic ability, you might not be able to tell. You're looking at me like Rory, you. But yeah. No athletic ability. I decided to step in the cage. I got training from one of our actors in the film, Sean Carrigan, actually two of our actors. And Dean Thomas trained me. But Dana White was making fun of me leading up to it. He's a huge ball buster. He was actually yelling, throw in the towel when I was walking out. And the week before, he and some of his buddies were kind of saying, oh, Rory's gonna get killed. So I was facing this failure. But you know what? I think I don't give a fuck. I was like, this is something I want to do. I want to show I've got balls. And I got my ass kicked in the first round like a full on beating. In fact, at the end of the round, I thought they stopped the fight.

[Sean]

Wow.

[Rory]

Because I heard the bell ring and I might have been a little concussed. And I went back and sat down. I thought they were going to start taking my gloves off. And then they're giving me a pep talk in the corner. They're like, you're doing great. And I'm like, what? And they said, lead with your right, you're doing great. And I was like, oh, maybe, maybe I'm doing good. And I don't even realize it. And then I came back in the second and third and one. I actually won the fight. Yeah. And I think it's a metaphor for life. It's why Rocky is such a popular movie. You know, life's gonna kick your ass sometimes, but it's like if you could just stand there and just keep taking the punches. That's. That's what it is, in fact. Bringing it back to, like your favorite travel guide.

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[Rory]

See full [e-mail] making a movie. I've been doing screenings of the film and there's some filmmakers or young filmmakers and then they'll ask me questions about like, getting in and you know, I'll hear, well, I mean, how do you get past the rejection and, and this and that. And I'll say, look, to me it's, it's like romantic love. Have you ever been in love, Sean? Yeah. If somebody told you as a kid, you're like, if you want to fall in love, they'll say, well, Sean, at some point you, you're going to get your heart broken, you're going to face rejection, you're going to like someone, they're not going to like you back. It's going to hurt, it's going to sting. But that moment when you find somebody and you fall in love and there's those butterflies, there's nothing like it. It's the same with filmmaking. You're going to face rejection, people are going to laugh at you, they're not going to want you, they're not going to like your ideas. You're going to try and fail. Like you might try to pick up a girl somewhere and you don't have any game. But how do you get better game, like you said with your podcast, how did you get better from doing it? Repetitions, repetition. Same with filmmaking. You, you get better from doing it, but you gotta do it first. You gotta jump in there and be willing to be embarrassed or fail like you did with your first podcast. So I think that's one of the keys is you gotta put that fear of embarrassment aside.

[Sean]

I was so scared of failure when I was younger, man. Now I embrace it and I love it. But I got bullied a lot growing up, so I think I was really scared of being judged and that's why I waited so long to try to do the podcast again.

[Rory]

Yeah, well, I did an interview for Grace Point and the interviewer had like a really bad stutter and it was one of those things where the person I was with, you don't necessarily want to mention it, but it's so noticeable. So I asked him about it because it was just unusual that somebody with a stutter is doing the interview. And he said that he used to just write out the questions and email them to celebrities and whatnot. But he started doing the interviews himself over zoom when Covid hit. And he said he was so uncomfortable and he'd break out in these sweats before the interview. But he. He actually went towards the discomfort. I think that's what you have to do. You know, people talk about in sports a lot, you hear like, embrace the uncomfortable. And most of the time they mean like the physicality that you're tired, but you keep going. But a lot of times it's also just doing something maybe you feel like you're not good at, but you still want to do it. And I think that's the key of success. Whatever the endeavor is, whether it's creative or doing a podcast or a business, go towards the discomfort.

[Sean]

In a way, that's where the most growth is, right?

[Rory]

Yeah. I think it's why cold plunging is popular because it's that mentality of it's like the least thing you want to do when you wake up in the morning is getting freezing cold water. But it's like, well, if I can do this, if I can just make myself get in this water for three and a half minutes, then I can conquer my day. Same mentality with working out and all that. Filmmaking, you know, when you're making a film, when you're putting it together, you're shooting day by day, scene by scene, and it's like you're pushing this boulder up a mountain. It's not just, I'm making a movie, it's what do I have to do today? And then what's the first thing we're doing? And you're dealing with so much stuff as the director, a lot of it, not really even creative logistics, the schedule, especially on a lower budget indie level, Time is your enemy. You have to make your days. It's so important to be buttoned up, prepared, and to go in the day with a plan, with a mission. And I really tried to embrace that on Grace Point.

[Sean]

Yeah. And you went from a whole different world of media to this, right? Yeah. Cause you used to be part of corporate media doing sports documentaries. ESPN 30 for 30s.

[Rory]

Yeah, I wouldn't say I was part of corporate media. I was still making movies. I had my own company. But it's still embracing discomfort because I was around really big name people and I didn't wanna be intimidated. I tried to treat everybody the same. I try to treat everybody like no one is above me and no one's below me. I don't care who they are. And I could still admire them and admire their work ethic. But at the end of the day, we're all human beings and we all bleed red. And I try to treat everyone the same, and I give people respect, but I demand it back when I'm dealing with someone. And so, same with celebrities. I've done stuff with Snoop Dogg, Shaq, and a lot of times you gotta get these people to do stuff for you to make a show. And it could be like pulling teeth. With Shaq, I had to roll jujitsu with him to do stuff. I mean, I'm five, six on a good day. 155. And it became this running gag that Shaq would want to choke me out for us to go do something. And I remember I was on this. He was on a commercial shoot, and I wanted him to go to his son's basketball game. We did this show called Shaq Life. And he didn't want to go to this basketball game and watch. He just. For whatever reason. So I was like, all right. So I decided to do a flying arm bar on him. I understand how now I'm saying this out loud, it sounds incredibly inappropriate, but we had this back and forth. And he was walking around on the commercial shoot with me on his arm, my whole body on his arm. And I wasn't. I didn't even take up his entire arm. So you gotta be willing to do whatever it takes. And I think there's some correlations with unscripted and scripted that way with actors, you know, you have to get the scene, and you have to get it right, and you have to figure out a way, almost like a coach, to get these actors to kind of do what you want or just bring out the best of themselves. And, like, players are different. Like you mentioned, you were shy growing up. Some people are extroverts. Some people really want exact, precise direction. I want you to do this and this. Other people just want the emotion, or they just want you to, like, leave them the fuck alone. Don't talk to me for 10 minutes. I'm getting into character. So each person's different. I loved dealing with that on Grace Point. These different actors, like Sean Carrigan, he was kind of like, tell me what to do, coach, I'll do it. He was an athlete. Jim Parrack, he's more of the Daniel Day Lewis actor in character and whatnot. Johnny, our star, he. This was his first movie. So my biggest goal was to try to make him feel comfortable and loose on set. So everybody was different in this filmmaking process.

[Sean]

Yeah. I got offered a role when I was maybe two, three years ago, and I turned it down. But I definitely want to get into acting one day, you know, Was this.

[Rory]

In a adult film or.

[Sean]

No, it was in a. Well, part of the reason was it was a Christian. I'm not even Christian. It was like a Christian film about basketball.

[Rory]

Got you. Yeah. So I think it's important to. To you. You can't fake it. I think I've been, hey, you should do this, because I think you can make a lot of money, but if you're only chasing the money and that's the only thing you're doing it for, like, oh, like I'm gonna do this and I'll get famous versus, like, I really wanna do this. I have a passion to do this, to tell this story.

[Sean]

Yeah.

[Rory]

So for Grace Point, because this was my first scripted film, I was looking at, well, should I do a faith based film? Because they're really popular, or horror? Like just straight horror? Because that sells. It doesn't matter if it's straight garbage. People will just go see a horror movie.

[Sean]

Netflix will eat those up.

[Rory]

Yeah. But for me, I love Thriller and Coming of Age. Those are my two favorite genres of film. So I wanted to do something that combined both of them and also had heart. Every. Every documentary I've done everything with sports, I try to make it relatable for the audience. That's what I tried to do with Grace Point.

[Sean]

Yeah.

[Rory]

Put some, like, emotion into it.

[Sean]

For me, I'm so scared of it. And that's why I want to do it. Because I know, like we said earlier, the most growth is when you're uncomfortable. I have a lot of trouble opening up emotionally from childhood trauma.

[Rory]

I had some childhood trauma myself.

[Sean]

We all do, man.

[Rory]

Yeah, that's true. You never know what somebody's going through. I think that's important. In fact, I'll tell you a good story. This is from the set of Gracepoint. And so we're doing this scene and it's this actor who's become a really good friend of mine. And it's a scene, he's got a gun and it's his first day on set. And we're trying to figure out what he's gonna do with the gun in the scene after he shoots it. So I said, hey, man, what do you want to do with this gun? And he says in front of the entire cast and crew, how about I shove it up your ass? Which very disrespectful And I'm trying to set a tone here. And everybody laughed, and I was like, wow, how do I want to handle this? Because this person's a very experienced actor, too. Been on big movies, big sets, big directors. My first scripted movie, getting things off to the wrong start. So I knew I didn't want to go up to him and be like, hey, man, you don't talk to me that way and be real confrontational. So I let it go until lunch. I was like, all right, I'm gonna talk to him at lunch. And I was like, I gotta try to find a way in to make this relatable. So we were talking about jiu jitsu. Who does jiu jitsu? And I've dabbled, and about how, like, it's good with, like, releasing your. Your anger and finding an outlet for it. And so then I said to him, yeah, man, you know, I. Growing up, my dad used to humiliate me a lot and really make me feel small. And I realized that was a big trigger for me. I realized that through therapy. So it's actually like when you said that thing about shoving the gun, my ass. It actually reminded me of my dad, and for a minute, made me feel that same feeling, made me feel really angry. But then I realized, you're not my dad, and you didn't mean it that way. You're just trying to make a joke. So then I was able to, like, kind of talk myself down. So I made myself vulnerable telling him this. I opened up about something with my childhood, so he felt bad. He was like, oh, man, I didn't know, you know, I'm sorry. And it never happened after that.

[Sean]

Wow.

[Rory]

So I think I'm. I'm okay with being vulnerable. You know, everyone has their shit in life. I had physical abuse, sexual abuse when I was younger from a neighbor, and then I went through a really bad divorce that almost broke me. So, I mean, none of us get out of this thing unscathed in life.

[Sean]

Yeah.

[Rory]

So I think it's not about what happens to you. It's about how you choose to respond to it 100%.

[Sean]

That victim mentality is dangerous, man.

[Rory]

It can be, for sure. I mean, I think it's important sometimes to have empathy for people, that you went through something and maybe you were a victim, but you're right in that. That mentality of woe is me or life's not fair. Because life's not fair. It's not. I mean, it's. It'd be great if it was, but Sometimes it's not. Sometimes great things happen to people that don't necessarily deserve it. And people that do deserve great things, bad things happen to you. So I think it's just grappling with that. But in my work as a director, I love dealing with people and I think. And you must love talking to people, or at least maybe you do now more.

[Sean]

Yeah.

[Rory]

As you do it for a living. But like, on social media, you would think, like, we're so divided that we have nothing in common. You either feel this way or this way, but the more you're out with people, touching grass, talking to people, I find that you really have much more in common with most people. And, yeah, maybe you disagree about this or that, but if you find those commonalities, childhood or parents or love of your kids or things like that, then. Then you can find a connection. That's what I try to do on my unscripted work, and it's what I tried to do with the actors in my scripted 100%.

[Sean]

Yeah, you're like the architect, right?

[Rory]

You're like a coach, I would say. But yeah, architect is another term you could use, and it's just trying to get that motivation. I just did a film where. Where it was a documentary on espn and Roger Goodell of the NFL was interviewed in it. And he was friends with this person who had passed away, Buddy Tevens. He died in a bicycling accident. And Roger was just friends with him. They were just friends. But you think Roger Goodell, in fact, Roger Goodell, you know, he's a commissioner in the NFL. So when I started my career at the NFL right out of college, so he's like on this pedestal. But at the end of the day, I'm interviewing someone who just lost their friend. I'm not interviewing the commission of the NFL, just interviewing somebody who loved this guy, Buddy Tivins. And that's how I treated it. And he got emotional on camera. He choked up, teared up. Interviewed his wife too, so. And one of the comments people gave is like, wow, I've never seen that side of him before. So it's like just finding those things that we can all relate to.

[Sean]

Right. Almost like humanizing, because some people put these celebrities or notable figures on such a pedestal.

[Rory]

Right.

[Sean]

It kind of dehumanizes them.

[Rory]

Yeah, for sure. I mean, I think you could put Michael Jordan on a pedestal for his athletic ability. He has a skill that no one else possesses in the world, but still, at the end of the day, he is a human being. And he can't walk on water. And so I still think that, again, he's got. He lost his father. He has some things that other people have gone through. So it's just finding those things that everyone can kind of relate.

[Sean]

Yeah. What did you think of his documentary?

[Rory]

Did you watch Dance? Yeah, yeah. I mean, it's great. To me, it's what you. Everything. You strive to have this sort of monumental figure with all this footage no one has seen before.

[Sean]

Right.

[Rory]

There was some criticism about that a lot in the documentary community. Oh, really? Well, from Ken Burns. Do you know Ken Burns is.

[Sean]

No.

[Rory]

He's one of the kind of the godfathers of documentaries. You know, really only in the last 10 to 15 years, documentaries have kind of become more buzzworthy with Netflix. But for the longest time, you heard documentary, you thought boring, right? You thought like, oh, great, I've got to learn something. It's like something you watched in school. When I was growing up, that's what I thought documentaries were like something about science. So he's considered one of the fathers of documentaries with still photos and everything. And he didn't like that Michael Jordan had cooperation in the film and I think he was paid for it.

[Sean]

Creative control, I don't think.

[Rory]

I don't know if he had creative control, but he got to watch cuts and it's like, well, if you want Michael Jordan, who never does anything to be in it, you have to give up something. You get all this incredible footage. So, yeah, maybe Ken Burns is doing something on the Civil War. Well, all those people are dead. They're not going to talk. So you don't have to worry about forming relationships with him. So I don't think there's a universal rule necessarily for that. But I, I like that documentary.

[Sean]

I appreciate a good documentary, man. Yeah, I really do.

[Rory]

Well, the, the, the quality and the, the varying degrees that people will make stuff. In fact, I got into scripted through my documentary work because I do a lot of recreations. So there's scripted elements in my documentaries, and there's no, like, one be all, end all way to do docs. I think you can have it with narration without verite. You can put animation. They'll do that. I've done that in a film with. On Ric Flair. So there's a lot of different ways you do it.

[Sean]

Yeah, I feel like those 30 for 30s really changed the narrative for me because those made documentaries interesting with the sports, and I really enjoyed those.

[Rory]

30 for 30 was really revolutionary because before that. So what it was was originally the concept was There was gonna be 30 films by 30 scripted filmmakers for the 30th anniversary of ESPN. It changed as time went on, but the idea was they're gonna bring a style that no one's seen to documentaries. Cause before that, most sports documentaries were on hbo. And it was very. They were good, but it was very traditional. A narrator takes you cradle to the grave on somebody. They were born here, they died here. And again, they could be good and well done. But 30 for 30 really changed what. How people view sports documentaries.

[Sean]

Absolutely. Which one was the first one? Cause you've made a few of those, right?

[Rory]

Yeah. I did a 30 for 30 on this guy, Tim Richmond, who was a NASCAR driver who died of aids. Wow. And he was kind of the first athlete who got HIV before Magic Johnson. And he hit it. And this is in NASCAR, too, where back then in the mid-80s, this is a southern sport. He didn't want the perception that he was gay to be out there. He wasn't, as far as I know, gay, but he didn't want that perception. So that was cool. And that was actually one of my first projects with espn and started the relationship with them. I had done something on esp. Tim Richmond for another project for nascar. I got to do these really cool projects for NASCAR at the time. Did one with Tom Cruise.

[Sean]

Wow.

[Rory]

Did one with Kevin Costner. This was like the height of nascar. I did one on Dale Earnhardt. Do you know Dale Earnhardt?

[Sean]

Yeah. And that one broke DVD records, right?

[Rory]

Yeah, so. And, yeah, Dale Earnhardt, for those that don't know, he died at the Daytona 500, which is like the Super Bowl. It'd be like dying at the super bowl on camera. He did on the last lap, trying to block for his teammate to win the race.

[Sean]

What?

[Rory]

Yeah. So it would be like at the super bowl, like a member of the Chiefs dying on camera protecting somebody. So he became sort of a mythical figure, almost like Kurt Cobain or Tupac. And I did a film. It was in theaters on him.

[Sean]

Wow.

[Rory]

And I got to do it when I was really young, and Paul Newman narrated it. So that kind of got me on my way to do docs.

[Sean]

Yeah. And you did the Christian Laitner one. I still remember that commercial. That's how viral that one was.

[Rory]

Yeah. I hate Christian Laettner. That was a fun one. When you talk about failing, I remember this vividly. I got a call from the executive at espn. It was on New Year's Day, and he said to me, I would like to say I'm starting the new Year with good news. He had just watched the first rough cut, and he really disliked it. Really, really disliked the first cut. And this was. So it's January 1st. The film's airing March 15th.

[Sean]

Wow.

[Rory]

So at ESPN, they wanted to delay the film, I later found out, and take me off the film. They didn't think I was capable of doing it. There were some haters there, believe it or not. So I. I said, I can do this. And what turns out was he thought I was playing it way too safe. He wanted me to take way more risks. He wanted me to do something way bigger than just Christian Laettner. Do it about hate in sports. He said that was the original concept. What happened to that? And I was like, you're right. I did play it too safe. And I decided to, like, almost start over from scratch. I wrote out the script first that Rob Lowe. It's how I met Rob Lowe and his sons in my film Grace Point. I wrote the script out and I tried to make it, like, very pop culture and humor and just have fun for me writing it. Like, put the Karate Kid in there and Arsenio or different things. And it started with that. And I remember it took me six weeks. And my wife at the time was in the hospital, so I was taking care of both my kids while working on this movie, getting like three hours sleep a night, and gave them a completely different cut of the film. Six weeks.

[Sean]

Incredible.

[Rory]

Yeah. So that's one I'll always be proud of. Just because of that process being stared down the barrel of total failure. This was, like, supposed to be a huge coming out party for me. Airing March 15th, going into the final four giant documentary. And this dude saying, hey, you did it, and it sucks. I can take criticism, by the way. I'd always rather somebody shoot straight with me. I'd rather somebody be like, you know what? I don't like you. I just don't like you. I don't like your face. I don't like the way you talk. And I think you're a fucking idiot. I'm like, okay, I can deal with that. I much more prefer that than, oh, dude, you're the best. Yeah. And then you leave. And they're like, that guy sucks. I hate the guy. That's how most people are. They'll talk shit when you're not around, but they don't have the balls to just tell you straight up to your face. That's why I like Sean Kerrigan in my film. He had a problem with me once he called me up. He Goes, you know what, man? You really pissed me off. And I was like, what's going on? He's like, he was mad because when the film was in Santa Barbara Film Festival, Grace Point, he. I didn't invite him to the Q and A. It was an oversight on my part, and I was wrong. And I was like, well, Sean, I'm glad you told me. That's my fault. And he was like, okay, good. And I was like, this guy's a good friend. He's a. He's. He shoots straight with me, and that's what I like in life. So bringing it back to I hate Christian Laettner. He shot straight, and I had to kinda start over. I got a little story about that film.

[Sean]

Yeah. That was one of ESPN's top 30 for 30s, I believe, right?

[Rory]

Yeah. It did really well at the time. And Christian Laettner's mom called me up really mad at me when the film was announced. It was announced. You said you saw the commercial all the time. And she left me this vitriolic voicemail saying, how dare you say I hate Christian Laettner. This should be called I love Christian Laettner. My son is really pissed off. So I called her back, and I was like, hey, can I just meet with you? Can we just meet up? And I brought my son with me. At the time, I think he was like, six or seven years old.

[Sean]

Smart move.

[Rory]

Yeah.

[Sean]

He looked garner some empathy.

[Rory]

Oh, yeah. I was like, she's not gonna yell at me in front of this. This kid was like, the cutest kid you've ever seen at this age. Like, little chipmunk cheeks and baby brown eyes. And you can. When I opened the door, she opened the door like this, and she's like, oh, who's this? And he's like, hi. Don't be mad at my daddy. So I just told her. I explained. Like, I was like, look, a lot of people don't know who Christian Laettner is. I'm trying to reach a large audience, and this is the way in to say I hate Christian Laettner, get people interested. I said, what I'm gonna do is I'm going to make people think about that, hopefully about why they like hating someone more than loving someone. And she was kinda like, all right. And I was like, you're just gonna have to trust me. I don't have bad intentions. I know you have no reason to trust me, but I'm telling you, like, from my heart. Looked her in the eye. This is what I'm trying to do. I'm not gonna make him look bad or look like a villain. And she later wrote me a letter after the film aired. I still have it on my desk. And she said, I get it now. I get what you were doing. And she said, you, son is lucky to have a champion like you for his father. So that's beautiful. I remember that. Yeah. When that same kid became a teenager, told me he hated me, I'm like, well, look, I got a letter saying, you should. I'm a champion to you. He's like, yeah, I hate you, dad. He came around, though.

[Sean]

Teenagers are just naturally rebellious around that they were.

[Rory]

He went through a rough, rebellious year, but now we're buds again.

[Sean]

Yeah, I feel like that those teenage years for male and female, man, those are probably the toughest. I mean, I'm not even a parent yet, but I'm just talking from experience of how I was.

[Rory]

My other son's 15. I, I, I love. He's great at 15. They are. They're tough. It's tough, man. You said it was awkward, and they're awkward years, those teenage years.

[Sean]

Yeah.

[Rory]

You don't want to peak in high school. That's what I tell people. It's like, if you're struggling in high school, that might be a good sign because that means you might peak in your 20s, 30s. That's a better time. Look, how old are you?

[Sean]

27.

[Rory]

27. You're peaking, man.

[Sean]

Yeah.

[Rory]

You're peaking. You got the podcast going. 27. Maybe 17 wasn't your year. 27 is.

[Sean]

I was getting no girls at 17.

[Rory]

Yeah. What's gonna happen at 37? Supermodel wife, maybe.

[Sean]

We'll see. I'm getting married this year, man.

[Rory]

Lambo.

[Sean]

Yeah.

[Rory]

Oh, you're getting married this year?

[Sean]

This year, yeah. Seven years in now, man.

[Rory]

Oh, wow, that's awesome. Yeah.

[Sean]

Lambo, though. I'm not, not, not big on cars.

[Rory]

Me neither. I've never been that into cars.

[Sean]

I think to each their own.

[Rory]

Yeah.

[Sean]

But materialism, I went through that phase with watches or whatever, and it's kind of boring now.

[Rory]

I'm with you. I'm with you. I think, yeah. With material stuff, for me, I think, I think it's if it has sentimental value. I think you saw that a lot with the LA fires, when people have lost everything, and some people are like, oh, it's just stuff. But when that stuff has sentimental meaning, like, your dad gave you this or that. But at the end of the day, you know, to me, life's all about your emotional connections with people, and Your relationships.

[Sean]

Yeah. You probably knew a lot of people fagged about that right in your space.

[Rory]

Not a lot, but a good amount, definitely. Especially in this town. I live in North Carolina, but yeah, I know a couple of people who just lost everything just and quickly. Like they woke up that morning not knowing.

[Sean]

And yeah, some of them had no orders to leave even I heard.

[Rory]

Yeah.

[Sean]

Crazy.

[Rory]

Yeah. My one friend's in Texas right now, living at his brother's house with his wife and two kids under the age of five. And they had to get a school for him. And life's crazy like that, man. You just. That's why I try not to worry. I try not to worry about the future because you just don't know, like we're only promised today.

[Sean]

You really don't. I mean, look at how Covid affected your industry too.

[Rory]

Covid, the strikes. I mean, it's just one hit after another. That's why for me, I'm 47 now. You're like 47. You look like you're 30. I know, Sean, but I was like, I don't have time to waste. There's not any brand new 65 year old directors new on the scene. So I was like, it's now or never for me with scripted. And I was like, I just don't want to wait anymore. And Covid actually kind of motivated me because I got the idea to do this to. To rewrite the script during COVID And I was able to get more people to participate because of COVID people weren't working as much. So they're willing to go do a movie in North Carolina for a month.

[Sean]

Yeah. Yeah. Your space change is so fast, it's mind blowing. I mean, now they call it TikTok brain. People's attention spans are so short. I was watching Quentin Tarantino on Rogan and he was saying how streaming sites like Netflix really impacted the movie business.

[Rory]

Yeah.

[Sean]

And it was really fascinating to me how pretty much DVDs were so profitable for guys like you. Right?

[Rory]

Yeah, DVDs were good. I mean, now my movie's on demand, they call it. But you're right, a lot of times movies are on in the background. I think movies are the one thing where it should have your undivided attention, if possible. And the phone, it could be the enemy to that. But getting lost in a movie, I mean, movies affect people. With my movie Grace Point, I've gotten some of the most touching notes about it from some people. I had a critic, a female critic, reach out to me privately and say, I don't really share this, but my brother died in a drunk driving accident. And there's a line in our film, one of the characters says his mother dies in a drunk driving accident. And she was driving. Don't. Don't judge her by her worst mistake. And this girl wrote to me, that line really hit me hard. And then somebody else told me, oh, man, I'm five years sober and this or that. So, I mean, movies can really change people's lives, really affect them, really motivate them, keep them going. Sometimes there's been times where I just felt like just quitting. Not just movies, but like, life. I was just been feeling so down and out. And watch Rocky, a fictional story, and you see him get knocked down, knocked down, keep getting back up. So, yeah, there's always hope. I always say, if you have a heartbeat, you have hope.

[Sean]

Yeah. Some movies really touch you, man. Harry Potter, that was the first time I cried, I think, watching a movie, man.

[Rory]

Yeah. I saw something recently on Reddit, and this person was talking about they were in a. They had tried to kill themselves. They're in a mental institution, a mental hospital, and they played Forrest Gump for the entire unit. And everybody was fixated on this movie for two and a half hours. And then this person said, well, you know, that was six years ago. And that movie kind of helped get them on their way. Now they're married, have a good job, and that was kind of like their rock bottom. So I say, look, if you're going through a bad time, just keep going. Just keep trying to go. And hopefully you're at your rock bottom. And there's. When you're at rock bottom, there's nowhere to go but up.

[Sean]

Yeah. Yeah. And everyone goes through those, Right? I've had a couple already.

[Rory]

Yeah. It's. I don't know if you saw this film, but they did a documentary on Christopher Reeve. It's gotten some good attention.

[Sean]

I haven't seen it.

[Rory]

Yeah. And they talked about his accident where he got paralyzed and totally paralyzed from the neck down. But his son, his oldest son said that's when he became the closest to him. Whoa. So you think about that, that this horrible act is what brought them closer together. He said before that he wasn't close to his dad. He was 17. He said in those 10 years, they really bonded. So even sometimes out of the worst of situations, something good can happen.

[Sean]

Yeah.

[Rory]

That's how I met my wife.

[Sean]

Really?

[Rory]

My current wife. One of the. Yeah. Well, one of my close friends was the actor Luke Perry, and he. The Film Grace Point is dedicated to Luke Perry. He was an actor. He was on Beverly Hills 90210. He was in Quentin Tarantino's last movie. He died very suddenly out of nowhere of a stroke, seemingly healthy. It was really shocking when he passed away. He was on the COVID of People magazine. And it really floored me because a lot of times in this industry, everyone's, oh, he's my friend. He's my friend. I love it. This guy was like, really my friend. We were really close. So when he passed away, it really hit me. Well, a few years before that, when I was going through my divorce, he was trying to set me up with a friend of his. He's like, you gotta meet this girl. She just moved to North Carolina. She's a friend of mine. I was like, I'll have her. Have her call me. And he'd be like, all right, I'm going to have her call you. Well, she never called. He'd be like, did Michelle call? I'm like, no, she never called. He's like, what's up with her? I'm like, I don't know. So when he passed away, she reached out to me, sent me a message and said, hey, Luke always wanted us to meet up. And I'm here in North Carolina. I don't really have anyone to talk. Talk with about him. Would you want to talk on the phone or something? So we wound up getting lunch together and then we went to his memorial together in la. I asked. She wasn't gonna go because she had to work. I kind of convinced her to go, and then we've been together ever since. Wow. Yeah. We're married now.

[Sean]

Beautiful.

[Rory]

Yeah. She works with me at my company. She's a production manager. So he really brought us together. So out of that tragedy, something positive.

[Sean]

Yeah. He's probably so happy looking down on you guys.

[Rory]

People say that, but he was like a hardcore atheist. Oh, he was. So I always. I always say. I always say, if he is looking down on me, he's pissed that he was wrong. He was like, ah, there is an afterlife. What the hell, man? No, I think he'd be really happy. And his son's really successful. Son's a pro wrestler.

[Sean]

Nice.

[Rory]

So he was a great guy. He was a good example to me of somebody who had a great success, but he never let it go to his head, and he treated everyone right. And, you know, if I could be half the man he was, I'll be all right.

[Sean]

Yeah. What do you think that difference maker is? When people have Success. And then it gets to some people's head. Some people, they're able to like, stay the same. What do you think causes that?

[Rory]

Well, when people go, hey, you change, man. Of course, first of all, everyone should change. To me, change is growth. But if you go from no one knowing you are, then suddenly everyone knows who you are. That's going to change you. I would imagine you'd have to be a little more guarded and then you throw in. So you're not just famous, but now you have a lot of money. Money's like freedom and it could be the best thing or the worst thing. So I would imagine when you go through fame, money, power, it's an adjustment for everybody. I wouldn't know, but the actors I've talked to or sports celebrities, you kind of get used to it and then hopefully you come back to your values. I think you have to have a base of values as a human being that you're not, you're not better than somebody just because you have this skill. And first responders aren't famous, but to me they do. They have a great calling. Or if you're in the armed forces or you're a police officer, whatever it is, you know, that's a very noble profession. I also, to me find that the people that don't let it go to their head, they're not defined by their career. They look at it just as that it's a career, but they're more defined by how they are as a parent or how they are as a spouse, or that sometimes those people are religious. You know, they have, they feel there's a higher power than themselves. Yeah, there's a lot of narcissism in, in this industry. I could see that people think the world revolves around them. So you have to, you have to deal with that sometimes.

[Sean]

Have you had battles with your ego because you're working with all these famous people, you know, successful movies with my, my own ego.

[Rory]

Well, luckily I hate myself, so that hasn't been, that hasn't been that difficult. No, I, I've always tried to stay humble. Maybe when I, I think maybe when I was younger, actually, because it was like a defense mechanism. I find people that brag a lot, a lot of times they're trying to make up for something else.

[Sean]

That's a red flag to me too.

[Rory]

Yeah, it's, you know why? It's like there's a deficiency somewhere or they're name dropping all the time. So I don't think I have that problem now. But maybe when I was younger and I had Napoleon complex, something like that.

[Sean]

I find it, even to this day, creeping up sometimes. So I'm always trying to be aware of, like, why I'm feeling that way. And just. I think that first step is awareness. Right.

[Rory]

I think if they. I once said, if you're even questioning yourself, that means you're not that narcissistic or a sociopath. Sometimes I wondered, am I a sociopath? But I'm not. Thankfully.

[Sean]

There's tests for that.

[Rory]

Yeah, but why am I not getting moved by this right now? Like, I have no emotion. Am I going to be a serial killer? And then I would see something like a. You know, a butterfly, like, oh, okay, I'm good.

[Sean]

Anytime I work with someone or I want to, like, have a relationship with someone, I have them take the Dark Triad test. Have you heard of that?

[Rory]

No. What's that?

[Sean]

It measures your three worst skills. Machiavellianism, narcissism, and psychopath. Gives you a score 0 to 100.

[Rory]

But don't you have to answer those questions, like, truthfully, can't you. Yeah, so there'll be.

[Sean]

You could probably do that, but you can naturally, you know, kind of get a baseline at least. Yeah, but. Yeah, one of my guests today got 95 in all of them.

[Rory]

Wow. Well, I try not to take myself that seriously. I think that's one of the keys. I take my work seriously, but not myself. A lot of times people take. Take this shit so serious with making movies and shows. You would think they're curing cancer and doing heart surgery, and it's like they're making the Real Housewives in Atlanta. It's like, this is supposed to be fun. If I wanted a real job, I'd work in insurance. We're telling stories and playing pretend. I used to do that with, like, my he man action figures as a kid. And at the end of the day, we're just doing that at an elevated level. So that's how I try to look at it. Just having fun, telling a good story. Try to bring joy to my work. You know, Snoop would say to me, snoop Dogg, man, you're always. You're always smiling. But it would make him smile. Sometimes he could get a little grouchy.

[Sean]

Yeah.

[Rory]

You know, if he hasn't had his medicine that day. You know what I mean?

[Sean]

I love it, Rory. It's been awesome. We'll link Grace Point below. I'll watch it and add a comment to the video. Anything else you want to close off with just.

[Rory]

Just to your audience and give Grace point a chance. It's on Amazon, Apple you it a rental. It's like 83 minutes and I promise you'll like the movie. If you do like it, leave a review. If you don't, keep it to yourself. No one asked you but yeah, hopefully you like it man. Grace point Check it out. Thank you so much for having me.

[Sean]

Awesome. Thanks for watching guys. Check out the links below. See you next time.

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